The phrase “must be in submission” in 1 Corinthians 14:33-38 and the phrase “with all submissiveness” in 1 Timothy 2:11 raise the issue of authority (headship) and how a woman responds to authority. It’s an issue that is always at play, whether Christians are at home, in church, or out in the world. Therefore, the male headship issue has to apply in some way to congregational meetings. In the podcast, we didn’t take a position as to exactly what that looks like. We just entertained the general concept of women not speaking, particularly if the purpose is to sway congregants away from a position that the leaders have espoused. The idea is that headship issues can’t be thrown out the window just because we’re in the context of a congregational meeting. This is the Church of the Living God, the pillar and buttress of the truth, not a club made up of volunteers whose votes determine what we even exist to be and to do. So, democracy doesn’t trump everything else. The church has God-ordained and church-installed leaders. That still matters (Hebrews 13:7, 13:17), even in a congregational meeting. When a congregation is faced with a decision to go in one way or another, leaders will emerge to advocate for an option. They will speak as convincingly as they can in order to LEAD as many voters to their view as they can. I think it is entirely biblical to say that it is preferable that those who take a lead would be men. I think 1 Corinthians 14:34-38 certainly informs that perspective. Why wouldn’t it apply here? But, all that said, neither Seth, Tim, nor I are saying that women are forbidden to speak at congregational meetings. That’s never been our policy and nothing is changing. It’s more a matter of encouraging men to be the leaders and women to retain the gentle quiet spirit that naturally prefers for the godly men of the church to lead.
Thank you for clarifying your position. Your message now in the written text is accurate based on your statements and the scriptures provided. This was not the case in the video. Here, you have a basis which you outlined very clearly. I was not challenging your authority as a Pastor, but, as I had previously written, the video just appears to be fractured into too many pieces that it confuses the viewer. I agree with your biblical position on this topic as presented in the written message above. You are doing the work of a faithful servant of our Lord Jesus Christ. I will continue to pray that you always remain faithful to His Word.
Pastors, I normally find your podcast to be rooted in truth based on scripture, but this time - you're so off base. Your presentation in this podcast on the topic of feminism is completely fractured and there is zero continuity in proving your statements. You are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, feminism goes against scripture, but you are trying to relate the roles of men and women in terms of daily life. As defined by you, feminism is the encouraging of women to take on masculine roles. How does having opinions in a church take on a masculine role? This is mindblowing. We expect more discernment from all of you when you create these podcasts, and, clearly, in this one - you are not demonstrating it at all. You quote 1:Cor 14:33 as your go-to to address roles of women in the church? Okay, stay with it. Public reading of scripture? Great, this verse applies. However, you are twisting verse 35: "If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." To learn is the main component of this precept....Learn about The Law? Scripture? Christ's parables? Yes, that would apply. Does it stipulate learning about budgeting? Raising kids? Sewing? No. You totally misapplied this verse to suit what you are trying to imply and it does not fit. 1 Tim 4 - again, fine, because it speaks on women and spiritual leadership. However, these do not address roles of women in the home, nor with her husband in public - at all! Minute 9:00 - you nosedived. This is not Godly at all. You are not speaking truth from the Word at all. In fact, you are giving your opinions. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? This almost sounds a bit like Mormonism. If you can back up what you are opining with scripture on your exact words, do share. I would like to reference Lydia, Acts 16:11-15. Obviously, a successful businesswoman from Thyatira, who was in Phillipi, at the time of Paul's teaching of Christ with Timothy, Luke and Silas. She was the first to be baptized. Did she seek a husband's approval first? No. Then, her entire household was baptized. Did she seek approval from her husband first? No. Seth was wise to state that he never addressed his church and said that women cannot speak at a meeting. Emotion has nothing to do with a woman voicing an opinion in the appropriations money that technically belongs to the church - a congregational church at that. Explain that, please. Even though you tried to salvage this flop beginning at minute 33 on domineering men, Brothers, you still failed to justify the creation of this video. If I were to advise you, I would say DELETE THIS VIDEO because it fails in every way to espouse what you trying to convey in women being silent in the church based on scripture.
Michael, thank you for your feedback. To be clear, none of us pastors tell the women in our church that they are unable to speak in a business meeting. I have never done that nor will I ever. But in terms of application, some may say that the best case scenario, in the case of touchier subjects that come up in the business meeting, it may be best (given the leadership calling of the husband given by God) for the husband to speak on behalf of his wife and children. That probably could have been communicated more clearly and carefully by us. Thank you for listening to this podcast and glad you have been helped by it in the past.
I agree with Michael in his first message about this video: delete it, and, offer an apology to women, both in your church(es) and who may view your podcasts. This is a degrading and demeaning message toward women. I watched the entire video and at minute 9:00, like Michael noted, Tim Robinson states that women should not have opinions in congregational meetings. His statement(s) mimic the teachings of Islam, not Christianity.
The phrase “must be in submission” in 1 Corinthians 14:33-38 and the phrase “with all submissiveness” in 1 Timothy 2:11 raise the issue of authority (headship) and how a woman responds to authority. It’s an issue that is always at play, whether Christians are at home, in church, or out in the world. Therefore, the male headship issue has to apply in some way to congregational meetings. In the podcast, we didn’t take a position as to exactly what that looks like. We just entertained the general concept of women not speaking, particularly if the purpose is to sway congregants away from a position that the leaders have espoused. The idea is that headship issues can’t be thrown out the window just because we’re in the context of a congregational meeting. This is the Church of the Living God, the pillar and buttress of the truth, not a club made up of volunteers whose votes determine what we even exist to be and to do. So, democracy doesn’t trump everything else. The church has God-ordained and church-installed leaders. That still matters (Hebrews 13:7, 13:17), even in a congregational meeting. When a congregation is faced with a decision to go in one way or another, leaders will emerge to advocate for an option. They will speak as convincingly as they can in order to LEAD as many voters to their view as they can. I think it is entirely biblical to say that it is preferable that those who take a lead would be men. I think 1 Corinthians 14:34-38 certainly informs that perspective. Why wouldn’t it apply here? But, all that said, neither Seth, Tim, nor I are saying that women are forbidden to speak at congregational meetings. That’s never been our policy and nothing is changing. It’s more a matter of encouraging men to be the leaders and women to retain the gentle quiet spirit that naturally prefers for the godly men of the church to lead.
Thank you for clarifying your position. Your message now in the written text is accurate based on your statements and the scriptures provided. This was not the case in the video. Here, you have a basis which you outlined very clearly. I was not challenging your authority as a Pastor, but, as I had previously written, the video just appears to be fractured into too many pieces that it confuses the viewer.
I agree with your biblical position on this topic as presented in the written message above. You are doing the work of a faithful servant of our Lord Jesus Christ. I will continue to pray that you always remain faithful to His Word.
Michael, thank you so much for this encouraging word. Your comment helps us to be more clear. Iron sharpens iron!
Pastors, I normally find your podcast to be rooted in truth based on scripture, but this time - you're so off base. Your presentation in this podcast on the topic of feminism is completely fractured and there is zero continuity in proving your statements. You are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, feminism goes against scripture, but you are trying to relate the roles of men and women in terms of daily life. As defined by you, feminism is the encouraging of women to take on masculine roles. How does having opinions in a church take on a masculine role? This is mindblowing. We expect more discernment from all of you when you create these podcasts, and, clearly, in this one - you are not demonstrating it at all. You quote 1:Cor 14:33 as your go-to to address roles of women in the church? Okay, stay with it. Public reading of scripture? Great, this verse applies. However, you are twisting verse 35: "If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." To learn is the main component of this precept....Learn about The Law? Scripture? Christ's parables? Yes, that would apply. Does it stipulate learning about budgeting? Raising kids? Sewing? No. You totally misapplied this verse to suit what you are trying to imply and it does not fit. 1 Tim 4 - again, fine, because it speaks on women and spiritual leadership. However, these do not address roles of women in the home, nor with her husband in public - at all! Minute 9:00 - you nosedived. This is not Godly at all. You are not speaking truth from the Word at all. In fact, you are giving your opinions. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? This almost sounds a bit like Mormonism. If you can back up what you are opining with scripture on your exact words, do share. I would like to reference Lydia, Acts 16:11-15. Obviously, a successful businesswoman from Thyatira, who was in Phillipi, at the time of Paul's teaching of Christ with Timothy, Luke and Silas. She was the first to be baptized. Did she seek a husband's approval first? No. Then, her entire household was baptized. Did she seek approval from her husband first? No. Seth was wise to state that he never addressed his church and said that women cannot speak at a meeting. Emotion has nothing to do with a woman voicing an opinion in the appropriations money that technically belongs to the church - a congregational church at that. Explain that, please. Even though you tried to salvage this flop beginning at minute 33 on domineering men, Brothers, you still failed to justify the creation of this video. If I were to advise you, I would say DELETE THIS VIDEO because it fails in every way to espouse what you trying to convey in women being silent in the church based on scripture.
Michael, thank you for your feedback. To be clear, none of us pastors tell the women in our church that they are unable to speak in a business meeting. I have never done that nor will I ever. But in terms of application, some may say that the best case scenario, in the case of touchier subjects that come up in the business meeting, it may be best (given the leadership calling of the husband given by God) for the husband to speak on behalf of his wife and children. That probably could have been communicated more clearly and carefully by us. Thank you for listening to this podcast and glad you have been helped by it in the past.
I agree with Michael in his first message about this video: delete it, and, offer an apology to women, both in your church(es) and who may view your podcasts.
This is a degrading and demeaning message toward women. I watched the entire video and at minute 9:00, like Michael noted, Tim Robinson states that women should not have opinions in congregational meetings. His statement(s) mimic the teachings of Islam, not Christianity.