I think my absolute favorite use of a soft magic being used to solve the main conflict goes to the Eragon series when he finally beats Galbatorix (so spoilers from here onward) because what he does is he focuses and digs deeps and uses the magic he spent the entire series learning and studying and using in new and creative ways that finally used the ultimate form of they magic which is unspoken magic to cast a spell that forced the main villain to experience every ounce of pain and suffering he ever inflicted on someone else and it was so beautiful and so satisfying because everything that happened prior to that moment was leading to it and it is probably my favorite climax to any story ever
My other favorite part of soft magic systems: danger. Since you don't know how it works, it can also be full of danger. My favorite example of this is Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. The magic is gorgeous, but also terrifying.
I would argue that in Ancient Greek plays, the gods showing up to save the day worked because of foreshadowing. The audience had the built-in foreshadowing of believing the gods existed and WOULD show up to intervene. The audience was bringing their external knowledge to the story, just like how a story set right before a huge historical event will have built in foreshadowing for the audience today.
Thank you! Just watched a Bookborn video where I think she fundamentally understands the concept of magic system. She seems to think magic system just means hard magic system and completely overlooks how soft magic systems work.
I am writing a fantasy story and I am using soft magic because I don't want to complicate things more. So, one of the characters has fire magic, while strong, she can't control it well which is explained because she was raised in a region with frequent forest fires, so she relate to fire as a destructive thing. So, when she got to the spell safety class, her instructor made her sit in front of fire place and observe, so she could learn that fire can also give light and warmth without being destructive.
In the case of Harry Potter, his victory is not so much the result of what he learned, but of what he sacrificed. The real victory actually comes sooner in the story, after he chooses to stop fighting, when he accept that he himself, being V"s horcruxe, is the problem that needs to be solved. I wasn't really moved by Voldemort's death, because by this point it's obvious that he's already dying. What the real, beautiful, absurdly rewarding victory of the entire story is that, after accepting his death as part of the fight, Harry is able to come back and jump from Hagrid's arms to save his friends' lives. I've seen a ridiculous amount of movies, been touched by a lot of great scenes. This one is stil one of my favourites.
With the deus ex machina type event, like the eleven arriving example, it can be seen as a case where magic isn't the solution if you reframe it a little bit. If you know the magical person is coming, the problem they fix is not a problem anymore. Instead the heroes have a new problem. How do I survive UNTIL the magical person arrives. Like in horror movies, if you know that sunlight will kill the monster, it isn't a question of how to kill the monster anymore. It is how to survive till dawn. But with the "Delayed Deus Ex Machina" instead of cosmic alignments, a character is the thing that is arriving.
I really like this view on it!! I think this is a way better way of explaining why that scene in Stranger Things worked. We have the foreshadowing that our hero will arrive, and everyone just needs to survive until then, making the moment the hero arrives a satisfying one!
Another example of Soft Magic in film, Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, which is ironic given how it's suppose to be based on a Hard Magic System from a game.
This immediately made me think about the soft magic of the grandmaster of demonic cultivation and how the problems were caused by social machinations and even the powerful main character couldn’t do anything against it. (He dies, don’t worry that’s not a spoiler, you find out that the first line of the story.) One of the best stories I’ve ever read.
Just nitpicking... 'Deus Ex Machina' is Latin not Greek. 🙂 But that point aside, a good video. Many fine examples for good use of soft magic. Will consider it in my next stories. 🙂
Mild correction, Deus Ex Machina is a latin phrase borrowed from the Greek "literary" tool in the greek dramas you mentioned. Good video though, very helpful things to think about.
LOVE your point about soft magic solving problems only when you make it cost something or cause another problem. I had never thought about that before, but its so true.
The biggest problem for me with soft magic is, for me to follow a fight. Like the "battle" between Happy Potter and Voldemort. The have an epic Wand-Stand-Off, but I just don't understand it. Is doing magic in the world of Harry Potter exhausting? Get's you magig stronger, if you just grinn very hard? Even Gandalf vs the Balrok, yet it looks cool, but what is actually happening? Is Gandalf trying? Is the Balrok strong, or inteligent, or even magical? In this context I always have to think of this Disney Movie "Sorcere's Apprentice". In this world magic can effortless do everything, but who wins a fight is about how creative the user is. This makes for fights, where I don't have to understand the magic, but am still able to be engaged and thinking how I would have done things differently. And that is what I like about soft magic, this feeling like beeing a kind on the playground arguing with my friend and having a "creative" word battle (that normally ended with "always 1 more times than you" or "mirror" )
Loved that you used Moana as an example! 10/10 :) My favourite soft magic always comes in the form of soft worlds. Like how the deities are walking around the US in American Gods, or how there is an onsen for the spirits in Spirited Away. In a way, this setup can both create and solve problems, it's just a different way to... live! Hey, you have a great video catalog, I'm really enjoying everything! Hit me up if you wanna chat, I'm trying to form a sort of Fellowship of the Fantasy Essayists 😂 and you're clearly a kindred spirit (I'm gonna assume you're aaaalso writing a story? Or thinking about it?)
Oh wow! That sounds awesome!! I'm honored that you're considering me! And yes, I'm working on a current novel, even though that novel has taken me several years and revisions 🥲
@@moonangel97 tell me about it, I've been writing the same book for the past 5 years 🥲🥲🥲 it's a soul-distilling business. But it's all worth it. I tried clicking on the discord link here, but it didn't work, so I'm just gonna send you an email, ok? :) Check yer inbox.
Great Video. I like to write soft magic, because I really like to emphathize the emotions of my characters. And its o true, that even youre soft magic needs some kid of rule. I call it the ruleof connection, because it is all about connecting the magic to youre characters, youre world and youre theme. A way to do this is stakes, or sacrifice or a weekness, wich reveals character.
Nice point. Every soft magic system I've ever encountered has observable "rules" or ways it functions, though the reader is left to notice it on their own rather than it being explained to them. Tolkien's magic is connected to light, jewels, and music. Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell makes it clear most magic is done using spoken or written spells, and sometimes with specific objects assembled in specific ways. The Untamed makes it clear that musical instruments are highly magical, with the songs being played creating different affects (Wei Wuzien can control his undead army though his playing, Lan Zhan can use his guqin to send waves of magic power to attack with, etc.). The audience doesn't know the specifics, but can observe that there are rules of some kind.
12:36, like in The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle. Shchmendrik the magician has incredible power but he hasn’t gotten the hang of yet and doesn’t until the end of the book
5:51 on the contrary, it's exactly because of his magic that he can't. He's far too ancient and powerful of a being and yet not ancient enough, so the One Ring would corrupt him and drive him to do great evil. If he did carry the ring then the world would be far, far worse because of it. I'd argue the main limit to Gandalf's magic is a limit on all magic in Middle Earth, and that is that no force can dominate the One Ring. The One Ring is simply too suggestive of a force for any being to truly resist.
15:29, it’s better done in the book where Harry explains to Voldemort exactly what the rules of magic were that make it impossible for Voldemort to win
I don't write very many soft magic systems. I prefer magic having set rules that are explained in story so the audience knows what the magic can and can't do. Still, a lot of what is discussed in this video can apply to hard systems. The one rule I want to break is the Deus Ex Machina. I'm not saying I want all the problems my characters have to be solve by the gods, but part of my worldbuilding and magic system is patron magic- mages can pray to a god for magic powers. This is a part of my magic system that I still need to develop. My current thought is that any mage can pray to a god, but this does not mean the prayer will be answered. Making an offering or sacrifice to the god might be more successful but still not guaranteed. However, if the mage devotes themself to a specific god, their prayers are more likely to be answered. This idea isn't anything new as I know DnD has a patron system for the cleric class, I think. However, I'm not aware of any stories (besides maybe Percy Jackson technically) that use it. Gods will appear in my story (there will be a full fictional pantheon of gods which won't just be the Greek Pantheon but renamed) but most of the time they will be more of a problem then solution. Like in Percy Jackson, they might appear to give characters a quest or to just make demands, etc. But logically, in a world with gods, it should be expected that there would be a few miracles. I want to base some of my stories around this idea- characters trying to appease the gods to get something in return. I think it will work without feeling like a Deus Ex Machina, but I just want to get some ideas on it incase I'm overlooking something.
I think this sounds like a really fun idea! I tried thinking of other stories that might do this but like you said, all I'm coming up with is Percy Jackson right now. Andrew Rowe's series Arcane Ascension has a lot of god-based magic but they don't usually have to pray to use the magic. Personally, based on stories I've read, I don't think it will feel like a Deus Ex Machina as long as the gods don't just show up out of nowhere right at the end of the story. Since you're establishing throughout the whole of the story that the gods are prevalent and a source of your character's powers, it should feel fine when your characters use this god magic. Again this is just a personal preference, but in Percy Jackson, my favorite scenes were when he figured things out on his own, using his own wit, sarcasm, or crazy ideas to get out of situations rather than when Poseidon just helped him because Percy prayed. Scenes like that have their place in a story, and can often lead to really spectacular results, but my personal preference is to feel proud for my character's strengths. If this is something you also like about those stories you might want to make the resolutions to the big problems solved by your characters own personal talents. But I have no idea how your story works or who your characters are, so this might not work for you. Always create something that YOU would love to read. Hope this helped a little!
@@moonangel97 The first thing that comes to mind to solve the PJO problem with gods is by letting the god help the character but without solving the problem for them. I'm gonna have to do some more brainstorming to figure out exactly how I want it to work. One idea is that a god can just boost my characters mana, but any magic they do is still theirs. It doesn't give them any powers they didn't already have. My other idea would be that the god gives the character something that the character has to figure out how to use. I think either of these would preserve character agency.
I think my absolute favorite use of a soft magic being used to solve the main conflict goes to the Eragon series when he finally beats Galbatorix (so spoilers from here onward) because what he does is he focuses and digs deeps and uses the magic he spent the entire series learning and studying and using in new and creative ways that finally used the ultimate form of they magic which is unspoken magic to cast a spell that forced the main villain to experience every ounce of pain and suffering he ever inflicted on someone else and it was so beautiful and so satisfying because everything that happened prior to that moment was leading to it and it is probably my favorite climax to any story ever
18:32, it’s like in the show Once Upon a Time. The one hard and fast rule the show has is “All magic comes with a price”
My other favorite part of soft magic systems: danger. Since you don't know how it works, it can also be full of danger. My favorite example of this is Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. The magic is gorgeous, but also terrifying.
I would argue that in Ancient Greek plays, the gods showing up to save the day worked because of foreshadowing. The audience had the built-in foreshadowing of believing the gods existed and WOULD show up to intervene. The audience was bringing their external knowledge to the story, just like how a story set right before a huge historical event will have built in foreshadowing for the audience today.
2:22, Disney’s Aladdin had explicitly defined rules for the Genie’s magic.
Only just started, and already loving the shade thrown at cursed child
Agreed
Thank you! Just watched a Bookborn video where I think she fundamentally understands the concept of magic system. She seems to think magic system just means hard magic system and completely overlooks how soft magic systems work.
You're welcome! This video was definitely a hard one to make since Soft Magic is usually considered to be something more or less undefinable.
I am writing a fantasy story and I am using soft magic because I don't want to complicate things more. So, one of the characters has fire magic, while strong, she can't control it well which is explained because she was raised in a region with frequent forest fires, so she relate to fire as a destructive thing. So, when she got to the spell safety class, her instructor made her sit in front of fire place and observe, so she could learn that fire can also give light and warmth without being destructive.
In the case of Harry Potter, his victory is not so much the result of what he learned, but of what he sacrificed. The real victory actually comes sooner in the story, after he chooses to stop fighting, when he accept that he himself, being V"s horcruxe, is the problem that needs to be solved. I wasn't really moved by Voldemort's death, because by this point it's obvious that he's already dying. What the real, beautiful, absurdly rewarding victory of the entire story is that, after accepting his death as part of the fight, Harry is able to come back and jump from Hagrid's arms to save his friends' lives.
I've seen a ridiculous amount of movies, been touched by a lot of great scenes. This one is stil one of my favourites.
With the deus ex machina type event, like the eleven arriving example, it can be seen as a case where magic isn't the solution if you reframe it a little bit.
If you know the magical person is coming, the problem they fix is not a problem anymore. Instead the heroes have a new problem. How do I survive UNTIL the magical person arrives.
Like in horror movies, if you know that sunlight will kill the monster, it isn't a question of how to kill the monster anymore. It is how to survive till dawn. But with the "Delayed Deus Ex Machina" instead of cosmic alignments, a character is the thing that is arriving.
I really like this view on it!! I think this is a way better way of explaining why that scene in Stranger Things worked. We have the foreshadowing that our hero will arrive, and everyone just needs to survive until then, making the moment the hero arrives a satisfying one!
Another example of Soft Magic in film, Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, which is ironic given how it's suppose to be based on a Hard Magic System from a game.
Thanks for video❤❤❤
You're welcome! 😊
This immediately made me think about the soft magic of the grandmaster of demonic cultivation and how the problems were caused by social machinations and even the powerful main character couldn’t do anything against it. (He dies, don’t worry that’s not a spoiler, you find out that the first line of the story.)
One of the best stories I’ve ever read.
Just nitpicking... 'Deus Ex Machina' is Latin not Greek. 🙂
But that point aside, a good video. Many fine examples for good use of soft magic. Will consider it in my next stories. 🙂
Well, dang it! You're right. 🤦♀️ I should've double-checked that 😅 My bad.
To be fair, it is the Latinisation of a Greek phrase - apo mechanes theos.
Mild correction, Deus Ex Machina is a latin phrase borrowed from the Greek "literary" tool in the greek dramas you mentioned. Good video though, very helpful things to think about.
17:14, Aristotle hated it too. He said as much in his book Poetics
LOVE your point about soft magic solving problems only when you make it cost something or cause another problem. I had never thought about that before, but its so true.
The biggest problem for me with soft magic is, for me to follow a fight. Like the "battle" between Happy Potter and Voldemort. The have an epic Wand-Stand-Off, but I just don't understand it. Is doing magic in the world of Harry Potter exhausting? Get's you magig stronger, if you just grinn very hard?
Even Gandalf vs the Balrok, yet it looks cool, but what is actually happening? Is Gandalf trying? Is the Balrok strong, or inteligent, or even magical?
In this context I always have to think of this Disney Movie "Sorcere's Apprentice". In this world magic can effortless do everything, but who wins a fight is about how creative the user is. This makes for fights, where I don't have to understand the magic, but am still able to be engaged and thinking how I would have done things differently.
And that is what I like about soft magic, this feeling like beeing a kind on the playground arguing with my friend and having a "creative" word battle (that normally ended with "always 1 more times than you" or "mirror" )
Given that the symbiote is controller Harry, it makes sense that Peter wouldn't call the avengers. He wants to save his friend and feels responsible.
Loving the FT 100 Years Quest manga in the background, and I learned a lot from this video and the last I watched. Thank you!
Oh ho! New video!
Loved that you used Moana as an example! 10/10 :)
My favourite soft magic always comes in the form of soft worlds. Like how the deities are walking around the US in American Gods, or how there is an onsen for the spirits in Spirited Away. In a way, this setup can both create and solve problems, it's just a different way to... live!
Hey, you have a great video catalog, I'm really enjoying everything! Hit me up if you wanna chat, I'm trying to form a sort of Fellowship of the Fantasy Essayists 😂 and you're clearly a kindred spirit
(I'm gonna assume you're aaaalso writing a story? Or thinking about it?)
Oh wow! That sounds awesome!! I'm honored that you're considering me! And yes, I'm working on a current novel, even though that novel has taken me several years and revisions 🥲
@@moonangel97 tell me about it, I've been writing the same book for the past 5 years 🥲🥲🥲 it's a soul-distilling business. But it's all worth it.
I tried clicking on the discord link here, but it didn't work, so I'm just gonna send you an email, ok? :) Check yer inbox.
Great Video. I like to write soft magic, because I really like to emphathize the emotions of my characters. And its o true, that even youre soft magic needs some kid of rule. I call it the ruleof connection, because it is all about connecting the magic to youre characters, youre world and youre theme. A way to do this is stakes, or sacrifice or a weekness, wich reveals character.
Nice point. Every soft magic system I've ever encountered has observable "rules" or ways it functions, though the reader is left to notice it on their own rather than it being explained to them. Tolkien's magic is connected to light, jewels, and music. Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell makes it clear most magic is done using spoken or written spells, and sometimes with specific objects assembled in specific ways. The Untamed makes it clear that musical instruments are highly magical, with the songs being played creating different affects (Wei Wuzien can control his undead army though his playing, Lan Zhan can use his guqin to send waves of magic power to attack with, etc.). The audience doesn't know the specifics, but can observe that there are rules of some kind.
Wow thanks for the great video, you really helped me understand and appreciate soft magic genuinely for the first time
That's awesome! I'm so happy I could help you see soft magic in a new way!
Love the vid. I've literally Ben juggling these concepts in my head trying to lay the foundation to my story. Thank you.
Reminds me of tale foundry
Absolute Dynamite Video!
Thank you so much!
@@moonangel97 You're doing so well!
@Moon Angel, great video
12:36, like in The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle. Shchmendrik the magician has incredible power but he hasn’t gotten the hang of yet and doesn’t until the end of the book
5:51 on the contrary, it's exactly because of his magic that he can't. He's far too ancient and powerful of a being and yet not ancient enough, so the One Ring would corrupt him and drive him to do great evil. If he did carry the ring then the world would be far, far worse because of it. I'd argue the main limit to Gandalf's magic is a limit on all magic in Middle Earth, and that is that no force can dominate the One Ring. The One Ring is simply too suggestive of a force for any being to truly resist.
15:29, it’s better done in the book where Harry explains to Voldemort exactly what the rules of magic were that make it impossible for Voldemort to win
nice, you got a new mic
I don't write very many soft magic systems. I prefer magic having set rules that are explained in story so the audience knows what the magic can and can't do. Still, a lot of what is discussed in this video can apply to hard systems.
The one rule I want to break is the Deus Ex Machina. I'm not saying I want all the problems my characters have to be solve by the gods, but part of my worldbuilding and magic system is patron magic- mages can pray to a god for magic powers. This is a part of my magic system that I still need to develop. My current thought is that any mage can pray to a god, but this does not mean the prayer will be answered. Making an offering or sacrifice to the god might be more successful but still not guaranteed. However, if the mage devotes themself to a specific god, their prayers are more likely to be answered.
This idea isn't anything new as I know DnD has a patron system for the cleric class, I think. However, I'm not aware of any stories (besides maybe Percy Jackson technically) that use it. Gods will appear in my story (there will be a full fictional pantheon of gods which won't just be the Greek Pantheon but renamed) but most of the time they will be more of a problem then solution. Like in Percy Jackson, they might appear to give characters a quest or to just make demands, etc. But logically, in a world with gods, it should be expected that there would be a few miracles. I want to base some of my stories around this idea- characters trying to appease the gods to get something in return. I think it will work without feeling like a Deus Ex Machina, but I just want to get some ideas on it incase I'm overlooking something.
I think this sounds like a really fun idea! I tried thinking of other stories that might do this but like you said, all I'm coming up with is Percy Jackson right now. Andrew Rowe's series Arcane Ascension has a lot of god-based magic but they don't usually have to pray to use the magic.
Personally, based on stories I've read, I don't think it will feel like a Deus Ex Machina as long as the gods don't just show up out of nowhere right at the end of the story. Since you're establishing throughout the whole of the story that the gods are prevalent and a source of your character's powers, it should feel fine when your characters use this god magic.
Again this is just a personal preference, but in Percy Jackson, my favorite scenes were when he figured things out on his own, using his own wit, sarcasm, or crazy ideas to get out of situations rather than when Poseidon just helped him because Percy prayed. Scenes like that have their place in a story, and can often lead to really spectacular results, but my personal preference is to feel proud for my character's strengths. If this is something you also like about those stories you might want to make the resolutions to the big problems solved by your characters own personal talents. But I have no idea how your story works or who your characters are, so this might not work for you. Always create something that YOU would love to read.
Hope this helped a little!
@@moonangel97 The first thing that comes to mind to solve the PJO problem with gods is by letting the god help the character but without solving the problem for them. I'm gonna have to do some more brainstorming to figure out exactly how I want it to work. One idea is that a god can just boost my characters mana, but any magic they do is still theirs. It doesn't give them any powers they didn't already have. My other idea would be that the god gives the character something that the character has to figure out how to use. I think either of these would preserve character agency.
But what magic system is in "Owl house"? It feels kinda like both
Did you fully watch Avatar the Last Airbender? Because you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about with it.