I love the sounds of those old mechanical games. It brings me back to being a teen in the 1970s, playing those games at the local bowling alley. A lot of quarters and a lot of hours were spent with my brothers and our friends on those games. Thanks for the great videos!
Excellent troubleshooting on this one Ron, I have a 73 Jumping Jack that is almost identical, and your explanation of the schematics has been very helpful
Perhaps there was a spare N/C contact on the score motor relay, and making it switch a lamp on the playfield does give a cool visual effect at a time before microcontrollers were used to blink every single lamp everywhere. Once you showed that the score motor relay was switching it, I couldn't take my eyes off that lamp just to follow when the score motor was running.
I have a tube of SupeLube (looks the exact same) from back in 1985! I haven't actively used it for a few years, but it was still good last time I used it; and still more than half filled.
You’re right that you need to flick the AS relay to get it to step properly, but you also need to make sure the axle is perfectly centered in the arms so that it doesn’t bind. You really want to make sure you have the minimum amount of grease on there as well, so that you don’t have any drag.
Nice! I have a Hot Shot I’m going to be finishing this summer. This one would be a good candidate for the EM Score Keeper mod 😉 Hope all is well! Thanks for posting these videos!
Hi Ron ! Love your videos. Great work as always. I may be mistaken on this, but where the drop targets are... Aren't the pool ball lights supposed to illuminate as well ?
Come on people loads of WD-40 and Duct Tape fixes everything lol just teasing. The rhythm of the bonus counting is quite catchy. Keep up the great work Ron
JOES CLASSIC, The Player Unit gets reset AFTER the Score Reels Units Tens Unit? I'm not sure what is resetting the Player Unit, I think its the score motor but if the player unit gets reset BEFORE the Score Reels the Numbers won't go to ZERO? I'm just confused what is setting up the sequence of events of the resetting the player unit and score reels units because they have to be in a certain order of sequence to reset in a certain order but I don't know if the score motor is determining the order of resets or not?
@@pedroveloso9707 I have used a lot of things to clean copper cladding on circuit boards. Sandpaper, steel wool, Scotchbrite, wire brushes, rubber erasers. All of it works. Copper is considered an easy metal to work with for good reason. I suppose I've just scraped crud off copper with knives too come to think about it. One of my soldering tools has this tiny edged end. Two of them really. One's angled and the other one is straight. Mostly I like the angled one the best. It has a point which gets in a lot of places. So I kind of forget about the chisel tool. But I imagine it has its uses too. I've seen those glass fiber cleaners. I never used one. They look OK to me though. If you happen to have one of them.
Your average relay has about 5 switches, some a little less some more... so probably 100 on the relays, three or four on each score reel, another 5 on the coin door, probably 20 on the playfield, 40 or so on the score motor so probably between 150 and 200 depending on the machine, and there's two blades on each.
The machine can take a while to count the bonus, and maybe they wanted the pop bumper to blink to show that the machine is busy, as visual feedback for the deaf perhaps?
Great vid as usual. Two questions if you will, what is considered to be the oldest pinball machine and what is the oldest one your and/or Joe has had in the shop? Thanks!
The oldest Pinball machine I can't really say because they evolved from the old bagatelle machines that were relased in the 1800's! by the 1930's the major companies were already in existence making tables similar to modern day pinball machines just without flippers... the flippers came along in the late 50's.... The oldest one I've had in the shop is a Flipper Parade, I think it was 59 or 60 something like that. I have a "Castle Lights" from the 1930's at my house though...
I usually would avoid "cleaning" a contact with a finger as the oils from skin can cause it to get dirty again. I can definitely see why you would want to be super gentle with some of the contacts though. These have been around for over 40 years and you wouldn't want some ham-fisted numpty coming in and destroying them in seconds. The pop bumper light going off is likely saving a switch and sharing a power line to reduce cost in some way. Just a guess, or it may be just a visual thing to make it look more fancy? Thanks for your amazing videos and the way you explain why things need to be done. This is great is it not only saves the machine in the video, but might help stop other people that watch from screwing up other machines :)
I'm hoping down the road somebody will appreciate that if the machines aren't around or playable anymore, somebody took the time to record some of them so people can watch videos of what they used to look like :) Thanks for watching as always Brendan!
I know this game is probably long gone but just curious: Is the switch that closes the gate mechanical? It sounded like it. Also is the loud buzz on reset from the big drop target racks and all the coils and moving parts attached? Nice work as always
Love all your pinball videos. Takes me back to getting 5 nickels for a quarter. That was my lunch money which I would play away and not eat that awful cafeteria food at my grade school.
Last video, I said I was gonna play this table on my PC. It was a lot of fun! But I was very disappointed that they cut out the bonus unit's 15 steps. Come on, people!
If you happen to have a '63 Gotlieb Egg Head you can bring that up next.. If you don't mind? I get that this is not a radio station taking requests, it's just that I find your videos extremely helpful, and I am stuck on this one.
If one doesn't like the LED flicker, well, there are always capacitors. I think that could better approximate incandescent flashing behavior. I have kinda pondered the idea of making solid-state scoring motor or bonus unit replacements. And maybe have jumpers to adjust the response timings. Have original timings, slightly faster (slow enough to be reliably compatible), and a little faster (if other similar replacements are used).
There is always a market for new things in the pinball world, some folks love any new mod or replacement that comes out so I'll bet you could sell some no problem :) Thank you for watching PlumGurly as always!
@@LyonsArcade -- Thanks. I wouldn't really want to make such things just for the sake of novelty, but more in cases of rare parts and things that cannot be replaced. For instance, the scoring motor and particularly the cam. You can often make a buttress/shim or use some sort of glue or doping agent, but if they are too far gone, that approach won't work. It would be painstaking to figure out how to convert placements, timing, and relationships into clock cycles or whatever. One might not need an MCU/CPU for that, just counters, latches, and combinational logic. It is possible to use the old strategy using newer parts, and hardwire what you need as opposed to using ROMs and programs, though directly using ROMs to store timing data for a naive design would work (like with the "infinity lights"). Put another way, the scoring motor is a ROM in a sense. If you consider the other parts when replacing a unit with something solid-state, it would be helpful to think of the switches/relays as logic gates and get an idea of their setup and hold timings. So any new stuff would need to respect the setup and hold times of the other units and need to be forgiving of variations. It is neat that all the logic of the solid-state era existed with the older stuff. If you put 2 switches in parallel, that is an OR gate. If you put switches in series, that is an AND gate. I imagine relays were wired as NAND and NOR gates. Relays and bonus units act as latches/registers. Bonus units would work as counters too. ROMs are among the most versatile of components in that you could build an entire CPU out of them. I'm planning on doing something similar as a personal project. And if you need faster, you could make a circuit to copy ROMs to SRAMs and then use just the SRAMs. For a CPU, memory can be used as microcode storage to make instructions out of simpler instructions. It can be your control unit in that your opcodes can drive address lines on memory (ROM or SRAM) and the data lines could contain your control signal matrix and decide what goes on the buses. Memory can also be your ALU. An example is to have a ROM with 20 address lines and 16 data lines. So you can use 8 address lines as Operand A, 8 for Operand B, and the other 4 as control/mode lines (thus 16 operations). Then the answers would be stored in the actual addresses, with the result data coming out of the memory Data lines. If you have too many Data lines, you could use some for flags/statuses. Like having 8 bits for the result and the other for flags/conditions (zero flag, greater than, less than, equal, not-equal, carry, overflow, etc). A table-based ALU is not the most efficient, but it is very possible. It has its uses. For instance, if you don't want to design a multiplier, you could have it to where you can do 8/8/16 multiplication. So 2 8-bit operands in and a 16-bit result. Back in the day, being able to do 1-cycle multiplication would have been considered really fast. But memory, and particularly fast memory, wasn't available back in the day. It was expensive and rather rare. If you had 70 ns memory, that means things could be done up to 14 Mhz, and with 10 ns SRAM, things can be done up to 100 Mhz. But that is the memory in a vacuum. Really, you'd need to factor in registers or combinational logic used, add all the timings together, and divide that into 1000. So if you use 10 ns SRAM and the registers used with it take 6 ns, then you'd be able to clock it up to 62 Mhz. In a case like converting an EM machine to work in a more solid-state fashion, an oscilloscope or a logic analyzer would certainly come in handy so you can measure the timings. Then once you make a replacement module, you can use the scope/analyzer to see how close your timings are on a breadboard before you have PCBs made.
To each and their own I suppose but if I'm taking the trouble to load up the thing and take it to the PRO!!! then unless you charge like 400.00 per hr to wax and do rubber rings I'm gonna let you do what it takes. LOL. Thank you though for another great video!!!! And it needs to be raised up a bit in the back so it don't take a lifetime to get from top to bottom of playfield IMO. :)
they called it special so that they could change it, usually it could be an extra game, an extra ball, or a bunch of points, they made it like that so the operator could decide what he wanted it to be....
@@LyonsArcade I know that, but you pointed out (in an earlier video) that on this specific machine the special didn't do anything, so I was curious what become of it.
Yeah but man you're still listening to Herbie Hancock come on now man come on you can't mock me when you're listening to Thelonius Monk in 2022 come on now
Re: The pop bumper light turning off. I'd liken it to the hourglass symbol on a pc when it's processing something, it turns off to let you know it's processing scores, it gives you a sense that it's alive and therefore more entertaining. (My opinion, not knowledge)
You did your bit. Now someone has to clean and wax the playfield, and put the game on a decent slope so the game will play properly, and faster. Come on customer….you can do it.
I love the sounds of those old mechanical games. It brings me back to being a teen in the 1970s, playing those games at the local bowling alley. A lot of quarters and a lot of hours were spent with my brothers and our friends on those games. Thanks for the great videos!
The wiring on these old machines is just a work of art.
Like the lights! I think the flickering was just blinking your eyes.😆, great learning video of how things work
Thank you for watching Nothingbutice!
"Magic dog.. It barks over here and bites over there" ... I've never heard it put that way, but, I like it.
We've got to outsmart the AI you know, haha
Excellent troubleshooting on this one Ron, I have a 73 Jumping Jack that is almost identical, and your explanation of the schematics has been very helpful
Very cool! We had a Jack in the box in awhile back, what a fun game!
Observation
29:20
The 10 ball only lit up when the 11 ball was triggered.
Always play a better round when a favorite song is playing.
Good memories of quarters at the diner.
Perhaps there was a spare N/C contact on the score motor relay, and making it switch a lamp on the playfield does give a cool visual effect at a time before microcontrollers were used to blink every single lamp everywhere. Once you showed that the score motor relay was switching it, I couldn't take my eyes off that lamp just to follow when the score motor was running.
I have a tube of SupeLube (looks the exact same) from back in 1985! I haven't actively used it for a few years, but it was still good last time I used it; and still more than half filled.
You’re right that you need to flick the AS relay to get it to step properly, but you also need to make sure the axle is perfectly centered in the arms so that it doesn’t bind. You really want to make sure you have the minimum amount of grease on there as well, so that you don’t have any drag.
Another great Gottlieb game great job Ron
That is a nice looking machine
The old games have a style that is hot
Yeah I much prefer the EM's
Thanks!
I remember playing this game as a kid! Loved it. Great work sorting out all the issues. Still has that loud buzzy reset noise but working good!!!
2:20
You mean a small tube/bottle brush?
Nice! I have a Hot Shot I’m going to be finishing this summer.
This one would be a good candidate for the EM Score Keeper mod 😉
Hope all is well! Thanks for posting these videos!
Nice work, Ron 👍 Greetings from SoCal
A strip of inner tube rubber laid in the bottom of the channel would make a nice return pad for the chimes.
Yup that would work perfect!
Hi Ron ! Love your videos. Great work as always. I may be mistaken on this, but where the drop targets are... Aren't the pool ball lights supposed to illuminate as well ?
They're just painted on wood, LOL
Nice job.
Thank you Anthony
Come on people loads of WD-40 and Duct Tape fixes everything lol just teasing. The rhythm of the bonus counting is quite catchy. Keep up the great work Ron
Thank you for watching Burt!
I really like this game
The ball going slowly is nice
Lots of action
JOES CLASSIC, The Player Unit gets reset AFTER the Score Reels Units Tens Unit? I'm not sure what is resetting the Player Unit, I think its the score motor but if the player unit gets reset BEFORE the Score Reels the Numbers won't go to ZERO? I'm just confused what is setting up the sequence of events of the resetting the player unit and score reels units because they have to be in a certain order of sequence to reset in a certain order but I don't know if the score motor is determining the order of resets or not?
hello, 9:16 use a A glass-fiber brush to clean... circuit i prefer to sand paper.
What's the difference? No one said to use 36 grit sandpaper either.
@@1pcfred well, if you never tried, you will never know... kkkkkkkk there are things difficult to write....
@@pedroveloso9707 I have used a lot of things to clean copper cladding on circuit boards. Sandpaper, steel wool, Scotchbrite, wire brushes, rubber erasers. All of it works. Copper is considered an easy metal to work with for good reason. I suppose I've just scraped crud off copper with knives too come to think about it. One of my soldering tools has this tiny edged end. Two of them really. One's angled and the other one is straight. Mostly I like the angled one the best. It has a point which gets in a lot of places. So I kind of forget about the chisel tool. But I imagine it has its uses too. I've seen those glass fiber cleaners. I never used one. They look OK to me though. If you happen to have one of them.
Cool Game! I would have let you do the playfield while you had it apart.
How *many* switches are there in a typical EM?! I thought SS were complex but these are ingenious.
Your average relay has about 5 switches, some a little less some more... so probably 100 on the relays, three or four on each score reel, another 5 on the coin door, probably 20 on the playfield, 40 or so on the score motor so probably between 150 and 200 depending on the machine, and there's two blades on each.
@@LyonsArcade They are truly epic. You have the patience of a Saint!
Really fun looking game. What do you use to clean the actual number wheel part of the score reels?
I usually wax them, if you use anything water based sometimes it makes the paint run off! Same thing with the apron
So i bought a Big Shot and the F unit appears to be missing. How would i go about getting one?
I would always cut up old PC mouse pads to silence the chime plungers clack. Slide the strip all the way in there.
That's a great idea, thanks!
Never seen on of these in the wild, have played it in emulation on PS2
The machine can take a while to count the bonus, and maybe they wanted the pop bumper to blink to show that the machine is busy, as visual feedback for the deaf perhaps?
Great vid as usual. Two questions if you will, what is considered to be the oldest pinball machine and what is the oldest one your and/or Joe has had in the shop? Thanks!
The oldest Pinball machine I can't really say because they evolved from the old bagatelle machines that were relased in the 1800's! by the 1930's the major companies were already in existence making tables similar to modern day pinball machines just without flippers... the flippers came along in the late 50's.... The oldest one I've had in the shop is a Flipper Parade, I think it was 59 or 60 something like that. I have a "Castle Lights" from the 1930's at my house though...
@@LyonsArcade Thank you twice!
I usually would avoid "cleaning" a contact with a finger as the oils from skin can cause it to get dirty again. I can definitely see why you would want to be super gentle with some of the contacts though. These have been around for over 40 years and you wouldn't want some ham-fisted numpty coming in and destroying them in seconds.
The pop bumper light going off is likely saving a switch and sharing a power line to reduce cost in some way. Just a guess, or it may be just a visual thing to make it look more fancy?
Thanks for your amazing videos and the way you explain why things need to be done. This is great is it not only saves the machine in the video, but might help stop other people that watch from screwing up other machines :)
I'm hoping down the road somebody will appreciate that if the machines aren't around or playable anymore, somebody took the time to record some of them so people can watch videos of what they used to look like :) Thanks for watching as always Brendan!
and yes, here is the big shot!
I know this game is probably long gone but just curious: Is the switch that closes the gate mechanical? It sounded like it. Also is the loud buzz on reset from the big drop target racks and all the coils and moving parts attached? Nice work as always
Love all your pinball videos. Takes me back to getting 5 nickels for a quarter. That was my lunch money which I would play away and not eat that awful cafeteria food at my grade school.
Thank you for watching Michael! Now they're like $1.50 to play or something like that!
Last video, I said I was gonna play this table on my PC. It was a lot of fun! But I was very disappointed that they cut out the bonus unit's 15 steps. Come on, people!
Yup, it ain't the same. Half the fun is it figuring everything out :)
If you happen to have a '63 Gotlieb Egg Head you can bring that up next.. If you don't mind? I get that this is not a radio station taking requests, it's just that I find your videos extremely helpful, and I am stuck on this one.
Youlll hear dat! Come on people not metal on metal!!
you'd think people would know you'll hear dat
If one doesn't like the LED flicker, well, there are always capacitors. I think that could better approximate incandescent flashing behavior.
I have kinda pondered the idea of making solid-state scoring motor or bonus unit replacements. And maybe have jumpers to adjust the response timings. Have original timings, slightly faster (slow enough to be reliably compatible), and a little faster (if other similar replacements are used).
There is always a market for new things in the pinball world, some folks love any new mod or replacement that comes out so I'll bet you could sell some no problem :) Thank you for watching PlumGurly as always!
@@LyonsArcade -- Thanks. I wouldn't really want to make such things just for the sake of novelty, but more in cases of rare parts and things that cannot be replaced. For instance, the scoring motor and particularly the cam. You can often make a buttress/shim or use some sort of glue or doping agent, but if they are too far gone, that approach won't work. It would be painstaking to figure out how to convert placements, timing, and relationships into clock cycles or whatever. One might not need an MCU/CPU for that, just counters, latches, and combinational logic. It is possible to use the old strategy using newer parts, and hardwire what you need as opposed to using ROMs and programs, though directly using ROMs to store timing data for a naive design would work (like with the "infinity lights").
Put another way, the scoring motor is a ROM in a sense. If you consider the other parts when replacing a unit with something solid-state, it would be helpful to think of the switches/relays as logic gates and get an idea of their setup and hold timings. So any new stuff would need to respect the setup and hold times of the other units and need to be forgiving of variations.
It is neat that all the logic of the solid-state era existed with the older stuff. If you put 2 switches in parallel, that is an OR gate. If you put switches in series, that is an AND gate. I imagine relays were wired as NAND and NOR gates. Relays and bonus units act as latches/registers. Bonus units would work as counters too.
ROMs are among the most versatile of components in that you could build an entire CPU out of them. I'm planning on doing something similar as a personal project. And if you need faster, you could make a circuit to copy ROMs to SRAMs and then use just the SRAMs. For a CPU, memory can be used as microcode storage to make instructions out of simpler instructions. It can be your control unit in that your opcodes can drive address lines on memory (ROM or SRAM) and the data lines could contain your control signal matrix and decide what goes on the buses. Memory can also be your ALU. An example is to have a ROM with 20 address lines and 16 data lines. So you can use 8 address lines as Operand A, 8 for Operand B, and the other 4 as control/mode lines (thus 16 operations). Then the answers would be stored in the actual addresses, with the result data coming out of the memory Data lines. If you have too many Data lines, you could use some for flags/statuses. Like having 8 bits for the result and the other for flags/conditions (zero flag, greater than, less than, equal, not-equal, carry, overflow, etc). A table-based ALU is not the most efficient, but it is very possible. It has its uses. For instance, if you don't want to design a multiplier, you could have it to where you can do 8/8/16 multiplication. So 2 8-bit operands in and a 16-bit result. Back in the day, being able to do 1-cycle multiplication would have been considered really fast. But memory, and particularly fast memory, wasn't available back in the day. It was expensive and rather rare. If you had 70 ns memory, that means things could be done up to 14 Mhz, and with 10 ns SRAM, things can be done up to 100 Mhz. But that is the memory in a vacuum. Really, you'd need to factor in registers or combinational logic used, add all the timings together, and divide that into 1000. So if you use 10 ns SRAM and the registers used with it take 6 ns, then you'd be able to clock it up to 62 Mhz.
In a case like converting an EM machine to work in a more solid-state fashion, an oscilloscope or a logic analyzer would certainly come in handy so you can measure the timings. Then once you make a replacement module, you can use the scope/analyzer to see how close your timings are on a breadboard before you have PCBs made.
To each and their own I suppose but if I'm taking the trouble to load up the thing and take it to the PRO!!! then unless you charge like 400.00 per hr to wax and do rubber rings I'm gonna let you do what it takes. LOL. Thank you though for another great video!!!! And it needs to be raised up a bit in the back so it don't take a lifetime to get from top to bottom of playfield IMO. :)
Ron I notice you always play so "clean," never using "body english" on the chassis. ... but the tilt switch never gets tested. 🤣
There's a camera tripod in front of me, I can't shake anything too much :)
Choot it Ronnie!!!
Here we go!
Schönes Video!!!👍
Thank you Ringo!
Did you ever figure out that the special was supposed to do? Or if it was a free game did you get it set for something else?
they called it special so that they could change it, usually it could be an extra game, an extra ball, or a bunch of points, they made it like that so the operator could decide what he wanted it to be....
@@LyonsArcade I know that, but you pointed out (in an earlier video) that on this specific machine the special didn't do anything, so I was curious what become of it.
lol @ craycray, what is this 2012?
Yeah but man you're still listening to Herbie Hancock come on now man come on you can't mock me when you're listening to Thelonius Monk in 2022 come on now
What are the differences between Big Shot and Hot Shot? I know Hot Shot has 4 players.
Re: The pop bumper light turning off. I'd liken it to the hourglass symbol on a pc when it's processing something, it turns off to let you know it's processing scores, it gives you a sense that it's alive and therefore more entertaining. (My opinion, not knowledge)
that's what I'm thinking as well. .... more entertaining.
Would you be keen to do a video request?
Bothers me that the left and right paddles are different lol
Mechanical Mechanism with a touch of Modern LEDs! Neato!
I think the phrase you were looking for is "A chemically powered linear inductor ".
That is definitely not the phrase I was looking for, I remembered it as "this thingy over here"
Sprog.... Sprocket + Cog
Yodelayheehoo
Hello Lil Everette!
You did your bit. Now someone has to clean and wax the playfield, and put the game on a decent slope so the game will play properly, and faster. Come on customer….you can do it.
Led kit looks wrong in a pinball of this vintage, to my eyes 👀 people, I'm not trying to say your eyes. My eyes.
LEDs are for people that want to play with the lights on!