That's crazy that it is different. I could have sworn it was going to result in the same situation as the other 2 commanders. It did hurt my brain quite a bit.
Even though it's not a nonbo with Ygra, it still seems like a card you wouldn't want in the deck. Unless you're putting a lot of other food synergy in the deck.
@@digitalworldsvr7881 Correct, if the deck is running a bunch of other Food token makers then the Manufactor is still worth bringing into the build. If not, if you're just hoping it would work with the Ygra and other creature token makers, then I wouldn't bother.
Layers always gets so much attention for magic complexity, but super niche things like this with replacement effects are what I feel are the sneakiest.
if I were to somewhat give an analogy, it would be like having a "Buy one Get two free" deal on any custom order of cake, but what you ordered was a signature default cake which you later requested to be customized; now the "Buy one Get two free" deal is no longer applicable to your order Edit: Apologies if this sound unrealistic/confusing/doesn't make sense.
@@owenzheng8357 Ha! I like it. A food analogy is always good. I heard a really good cake analogy a few months ago for helping to understand Layers and I asked that person if I could steal it.
Great video, Academy Manufactor creates many questions at tables. I had a question about it come up the other day actually. How does Academy Manufactor work with Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second? If I create a food, then have Academy Manufactor create a Food, Clue, and Treasure, can I still use Jinnie Fay to turn each of those into Cats or Dogs?
@@HumdrumMadman Yup, you can order your Replacement Effects so that you would end up getting to make the three creature tokens instead of just a single original Food token. Very handy to do.
So help me understand one thing, because it still confuses me. If I make a creature token with say, Experimental Confectioner, during the creation of the token, it is given the supertype "Token Creature" and subtype "Rat". When the rat enters the battlefield, Ygra then gives the creature the supertype "Artifact" and subtype "Food". Is this correct, or is there some sort of interaction that keeps the creature token from actually becoming a food token as well? I was looking at a potential infinite line, and all information I could find online contradicts this logic.
Correct, at it's "creation" it is just a Creature - Rat (technically "token" isn't a Supertype) and then once it's on the BF it is now a Artifact Creature - Food Rat. The Academy Manufactor doesn't seeing it being created as a Food, but any card that cares about seeing an Artifact and/or Food entering the BF will see that. Think if almost as this, as you're reaching to grab a Rat token from the side, that's almost the moment that the Academy Manufactor cares about it, it's not yet on the BF, but the spell or effect that would have you create it is resolving and that's why you're reaching for it, then you've placed it onto the table, onto the BF, and that's now it entering the BF after it's been created, too late for the Manufactor to "see" it but not too late for a card like Hedron Detonator to "see" it. I hope this helps.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel my math was a bit off, it is way more when Starscape Cleric enters, you get two Lifegain trigger and two Offspring trigger stack them so offspring resolves first now for the first offspring token, you get 2 lifegain trigger which result in 2x2x2 = 8 lose 1 life trigger for the second offspring token, you get 2 lifegain trigger again, which result in 2x2x3 = 12 lose 1 life trigger then the two lifegain trigger from the original resolves, which are again 2x2x3 = 12 lose 1 life trigger total = 32 life lost in one turn
@@Hanmacx Anytime you're dealing with a doubler and multiple different things triggering that are all individually doubled by that doubler at different times... things get crazy with the math. Especially if some things are additional effects and some are multiplicative, then it's even more bonkers to figure out. I have a mono green deck with Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider as the Commander and I also run Pir, Imaginative Rascal in there as a backup to the Commander, and if I ever happen to get them both out at the same time, it gets crazy.
I totally get your point here, but I think possibly skewing the stats many people are building this as “food matters” where the deck makes a lot of non-creature food on its own.
@@Ltennisplayer1947 For sure, Squad is nice on weaker creatures because it has no limit, but Offspring is cool for creatures with more interesting and powerful effects as it has the built in cap. At least that's how I'd utilize it as a designer. I also really like the band of the same name.
It wouldn’t work. I hate to inform you but it having the type of a food in addition to its other types doesn’t count as making it so academy manufactor wouldn’t trigger.
I'm a little confused by your comment. You say "I hate to inform you..." and how it wouldn't be seen by the Manufactor, but that's the whole point of the video, it covers how that's the case, that it won't.
Bloomburrow is such a great set. My playgroup is so excited for so many of the commanders.
@@ccarpenter1128 It is a fun set that feels like a Magic proper set. It's an actual fantasy type setting, so that's nice to see.
I liked the cat background eating. Very fitting for this episode.
@@JeffCarpenter-c1i Heh, yeah, I've been waiting to use this one for a while.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannelwhat is that great background from?
@@xXxLongHairDudexXx The card is Forum Familiar and the artist is Ilse Gort.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Thank You I appreciate it
@@xXxLongHairDudexXx Sure thing.
That's crazy that it is different. I could have sworn it was going to result in the same situation as the other 2 commanders. It did hurt my brain quite a bit.
@@TheAlcoholic83 Did the metaphor help or hurt?
Even though it's not a nonbo with Ygra, it still seems like a card you wouldn't want in the deck. Unless you're putting a lot of other food synergy in the deck.
@@digitalworldsvr7881 Correct, if the deck is running a bunch of other Food token makers then the Manufactor is still worth bringing into the build. If not, if you're just hoping it would work with the Ygra and other creature token makers, then I wouldn't bother.
Layers always gets so much attention for magic complexity, but super niche things like this with replacement effects are what I feel are the sneakiest.
For sure, there are some rules just hidden in the dark depths of the CR. The less infamous things, not as known but that's what makes them so sneaky.
if I were to somewhat give an analogy, it would be like having a "Buy one Get two free" deal on any custom order of cake, but what you ordered was a signature default cake which you later requested to be customized; now the "Buy one Get two free" deal is no longer applicable to your order
Edit: Apologies if this sound unrealistic/confusing/doesn't make sense.
@@owenzheng8357 Ha! I like it. A food analogy is always good. I heard a really good cake analogy a few months ago for helping to understand Layers and I asked that person if I could steal it.
Great video, Academy Manufactor creates many questions at tables. I had a question about it come up the other day actually.
How does Academy Manufactor work with Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second? If I create a food, then have Academy Manufactor create a Food, Clue, and Treasure, can I still use Jinnie Fay to turn each of those into Cats or Dogs?
@@HumdrumMadman Yup, you can order your Replacement Effects so that you would end up getting to make the three creature tokens instead of just a single original Food token. Very handy to do.
So help me understand one thing, because it still confuses me. If I make a creature token with say, Experimental Confectioner, during the creation of the token, it is given the supertype "Token Creature" and subtype "Rat". When the rat enters the battlefield, Ygra then gives the creature the supertype "Artifact" and subtype "Food". Is this correct, or is there some sort of interaction that keeps the creature token from actually becoming a food token as well? I was looking at a potential infinite line, and all information I could find online contradicts this logic.
Correct, at it's "creation" it is just a Creature - Rat (technically "token" isn't a Supertype) and then once it's on the BF it is now a Artifact Creature - Food Rat. The Academy Manufactor doesn't seeing it being created as a Food, but any card that cares about seeing an Artifact and/or Food entering the BF will see that. Think if almost as this, as you're reaching to grab a Rat token from the side, that's almost the moment that the Academy Manufactor cares about it, it's not yet on the BF, but the spell or effect that would have you create it is resolving and that's why you're reaching for it, then you've placed it onto the table, onto the BF, and that's now it entering the BF after it's been created, too late for the Manufactor to "see" it but not too late for a card like Hedron Detonator to "see" it. I hope this helps.
I love Offspring trigger with Delney in Standard
Oh snap, yeah, Delney is very nice with Offspring.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel
T2 Lifecreed Duo
T3 Delney
T5 Starscape Cleric (with Offspring) = get 18 lose 1 life trigger
@@Hanmacx Oh my, that is indeed a bonkers play for not a whole lot of mana invested, and it just sets you up for more the next turn.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel my math was a bit off, it is way more
when Starscape Cleric enters, you get two Lifegain trigger and two Offspring trigger
stack them so offspring resolves first
now for the first offspring token, you get 2 lifegain trigger which result in 2x2x2 = 8 lose 1 life trigger
for the second offspring token, you get 2 lifegain trigger again, which result in 2x2x3 = 12 lose 1 life trigger
then the two lifegain trigger from the original resolves, which are again 2x2x3 = 12 lose 1 life trigger
total = 32 life lost in one turn
@@Hanmacx Anytime you're dealing with a doubler and multiple different things triggering that are all individually doubled by that doubler at different times... things get crazy with the math. Especially if some things are additional effects and some are multiplicative, then it's even more bonkers to figure out. I have a mono green deck with Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider as the Commander and I also run Pir, Imaginative Rascal in there as a backup to the Commander, and if I ever happen to get them both out at the same time, it gets crazy.
Leaning on getting this card for my hobbit deck
@@El_Goofo Ygra or the Manufactor... Or both?
I totally get your point here, but I think possibly skewing the stats many people are building this as “food matters” where the deck makes a lot of non-creature food on its own.
I think I’m building Ygra as Squirrel kindred
"Kicker like" ha! Yeah yeah yeah, everything is just kicker. It is cool though, like a balanced version of squad.
@@Ltennisplayer1947 For sure, Squad is nice on weaker creatures because it has no limit, but Offspring is cool for creatures with more interesting and powerful effects as it has the built in cap. At least that's how I'd utilize it as a designer. I also really like the band of the same name.
Idc what anyone says its yee-grah lol
I could go with that.
It wouldn’t work. I hate to inform you but it having the type of a food in addition to its other types doesn’t count as making it so academy manufactor wouldn’t trigger.
That's... Exactly what he said, isn't it?
I'm a little confused by your comment. You say "I hate to inform you..." and how it wouldn't be seen by the Manufactor, but that's the whole point of the video, it covers how that's the case, that it won't.