I feel like the commentator failed to see the other side of the coin - MBT's direct opponent had half the eco but still outperformed him. Instead of focusing on the pure eco builds, it might be best to study those who can do more with less. I am curious what the other team saw that allowed them to push so hard at the right time as there wasn't much scouting involved that I've noticed.
MBT famous for selfish play and huge toxicity. The first time I played with him, it was me and some new friends. Hard fought game, and MBT got increasingly salty over time. A leak hurt him a little, he didnt get gifted metal when he asked, and he started cussing out the team. 35 minutes in, my teammates have a hard fought defense going. Our strongest eco player repeatedly asked for a particular hill for a lolcannon. MBT starts swearing at him and builds a turret to block him. Our eco reclaims it, builds a lolcannon. As it was finishing, MBT Dgunned the friendly eco's afus line because "you don't fucking deserve to win". We all pass over our afuses to try and get the cannon firing. MBT friendly fires the afus core. I do not like this man.
A very good point. I think he scaled into the air constructors and then Ragnarok too late in the game. I feel that the eco-scaling part and aircraft/tick spam was epic. He was way ahead of any of the other backlines by 4x thru most of the game on the eco-scaling front. If he cut it off earlier he could have had his Ragnarok up first by a solid margin. I think he got lost in the defense and without the knowledge of how far he was ahead from scouting he didn't know that he had the freedom to cut the scaling off and close out the game. Excellent player though, worlds of difference better than I could manage.
27:33 yes, there are four resources, but the 4th is just time. Intel = time: You will find out about the opponent's Ragnarok eventually, but finding out about it now means you have some time to respond to it, whether that be by attacking it or by building defences. Learning about the upcoming juggernauts just means that you can do something about them before they crash into your front. Maneuverability is also just time, for air units 10 seconds may be enough time to react to an attack, where for vehicles you might need closer to 25 seconds to react in time. Aerial build power is just the combination of build power and time via maneuverability.
He scaled his eco well sure, However he used his Eco defensively instead of decisively, waited way too long as the front lines were crumpling and only gave it a temporary fix and started waiting again.
13:40 one thing you seemed to miss was he quickly started reclaiming those converters once he knew they were likely to chain explode. he saved like 4 of them, which while not amazing, is still pretty impressive
@@andrewgreeb916 The point was to minimize chain explosion damage, not make metal. Those quick actions may have saved the anti-air turret close by, which is worth metal and was later reclaimed. Not sure on the radius of the explosions, but it may have mattered.
MBT with all that eco for so much of the game, made nothing but negligible mass of ticks and defensive air. The only thing he carried was the match timer after letting the people in front of him die. Copy his eco build order, and once you get you're second or 3rd AFUS, actually start contributing to the game and win.
So treu imo. Once he started pushing those t3 because he had to. He should have just kept at it. They were pushing back at that time, I truly think they could have done some crippeling damage to the enemy then.
At the very least, he could have gotten out an early Thor or two and reinforced his Frontline to push back out. Once he was at like 9-10 AFUS he could build a Thor and an AFUS at the same time without stalling. No reason to wait till 35 minutes to use your Gantry, and stop after 6'ish Marauders.
@@asldfjkalsdfjasdf sure, but he always acted reactivly, never proactivly. He mostly helped teammates only when the enemy was practicly in their base and barely helped to reinforce a propper frontline, only being basically the last line of defense, which is not good if you loose most of the map control. His eco build is insane no question, but working well with any type of teammates is also a skill. He could have sent actual units to the frontline trying to push back, besides just the cheapest spam. Yes that helped in that situation to bait shots away from good units and he did have some mechs at the front, but then basically went back to only making ticks which wont help much besides delaying the enemy. If he started constantly producing T3 units after the tick spam, imo they could have properly pushed back. I mean they did with his initial mech and spam support.
To go along with the dota/league examples, mbt farmed all game, then farmed some more, failed to help his team when he was needed the most and tried to deflect blame at the end. When carrying you need to find a point where you decide to kill the enemy, how you do that is up to you, I've seen people kill bases with mass airdrop beamer turrets from the backline position, but you have to have a plan to win the game or you are only waiting to lose.
46:58 basicly why i hate playing with MBT and sometimes Dolfi, because they chill all game long while you have to sweat yourself to death. Oh, yea... you got yourself some eco at the expense of the whole rest of the team... and based on if your "i have fun - troll gameplay" works we will win or lose, because you want to play SimCity and are to lazy to put in the micro as a high TS. I really hate these type of players and the new players that try to learn this "i want to be the MVP" style (but dont even understand when they can or cant be greedy) makes it even worse. Most top players will tell you "if you want to win... destory the enemy and eco with the metal that you get from that" but the "i sim city to become a hero" style is the most toxic style of gameplay i can think off. If you want to do this... please play against the AI and stop wasting your teammates time to become your b!tchboy support.
The issue is when it's not a means to an end, it's fine if your teammate does nothing but eco and slaps down a 20 minute calamity and makes the enemy have a bad day. Or they eco up to juggernauts every 30 seconds. Just having eco without a plan is planning to fail. It's like in dota/league having a carry who is literally farming all game going to go farm some more instead of killing the enemy.
I agree he baited his team all game and was too late to save them, had no consideration for holding any space, or helping any damaged teammate from lack of support. Built a handfull of marauders and went back to jerking off again. If you are going to play sim city you may as well be donating afus to teammates, could literally have gone afk, overflowed his metal to teammates and they would have fought more effectively with it.
@@blind___ That's usually what I do when I eco a lot, I try to get to a point where I can prop up my teammates' production with overflowing resources. I usually don't go for excessive strategic weaponry or t3 units.
You were right by the way on the extra converters, he's taking advantage of 3 other players' excess energy. Generally it's definitely worth overbuilding energy converters at least a little, because teammates are never perfect :)
Drongo, this is not an example of excellent backline play. This is an example of shitty backline play, but great resource efficiency and base-building organization. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I think this is a bad example of "good" backline play. If you spend the whole game scaling and macroing your base, but never supporting your front line, you're dooming your team. -He could have started T1 spam earlier to support the front line, but didn't -He could have gifted T2 to his team, but didn't -He could have put up an early anti-nuke, but didn't (had TWO AFUS, but no anti-nuke yet, wtf!) -He could have sent intermittent waves of T2 or T3 to put pressure on the opposing team, but didn't -He could have gifted AFUS + converters to players in need as their front line was failing, but didn't All of MBT's "backline support" was reactionary, producing solutions to problems that could have been avoided had he devoted some resources to actual support for his team. You emphasized the importance of backliners keeping an eye on the status of the front line to determine when to shift their economic focus to the front, if only temporarily - well the front line took a along time collapsing and he did literally nothing to stop it until it was too late. What good is all that economy if you don't leverage some of it to put pressure back on the opposing team? The front line was already collapsed by the time he realized he needed to send some units up for support.
I agree. I tend to eco just a bit slower, but I support my front with units that are typically a tech above what's attacking or if they've been pushed and suffered, I toss them some eco buildings.
Not only that but the bottom team didn't even bother deep scouting or deep air penetration strikes. They could been building the Deathstar up there and team bottom would never have known.
I always find it odd how much back liners focus on playing sim city. The thing is, afus are amazing, but almost every game I see, early aggression is either met with counter investment, being a wash, or it is game ending or massively profitable. Sure, waiting another 3 minutes to build your first unit is a ton of economy... but it's a ton of economy for both players. I would be curious to hear your perspective on your gantry rush games... what happens if you just don't reclaim the gantry? I am sure you have tried it. Just build more T3 units, and continue to keep pressure up. If the front line is so porous you can walk 15 marauders through it, AND when you do, pulling 3 players to their back line... what happens if you just make some random beef out of your gantry and keep fighting? In particular, I notice in your nuke rush game on supreme straits, after about nuke 2-3, the front line was not pushing at all... and then someone said "hey, front line, move forwards" and the game IMMEDIATELY ended. YOU could be the front line that moves forwards. One of the things a skilled player brings is decision making, and putting your least skilled players on the front line means there is probably quite a bit of value to be gained from decisive decision making.
>what happens if you just make some random beef out of your gantry and keep fighting? The metal donation, is what happens. You are not going to be able to outperform a skilled defense, you are going to both waste your scaling opportunities and enrich the enemy. This lack of understanding of why backline simcity is necessary is a sure sign of low-skill player.
Like the idea of the greed with the energy converters. He started the greed when the wind was super high. Maybe he did it knowing his allies were probably overflowing with their windmills and knew he could eek out just a bit more metal than normal.
About mobile aerial buildpower - don't forget that air transports can move construction turrets! They are much more efficient sources of buildpower than T1 construction aircraft, if you can fit them in wherever you're trying to build.
Yeah but that's a lot of micro when you'd probably be better off ordering up fresh construction turrets at the build site, could even have the old ones reclaim each other if resources are slim.
The fifth resource he didn't mention is APM, which is intrinsic to the player and is the only resource you cannot scale - you can only reduce consumption/change distribution
That really was too much screwing around out of MBT. Red didn't even have AFUs, yet he managed to throw down early air harrass AND he was the first one with the Ragnarok on the field, ending the game. Only needed half MBTs economy to do it.
im completely new in RTS games. downloaded BAR yesterday and i struggled and was stuck in a war-of-attrition against a normal diff bot for 2hrs before i finally managed to push back and destroy it. that being said, even a newbie like me could spot some mistakes here. I've seen 3 other vids of backliners from ur channel, and in them, I've seen backliners donating units such as T2 engis, and also providing early frontline support. MBT did none of these things and the consequence was his frontlines eventually collapsed
still liked the gameplay - good way to learn the ways to efficiently build the base, however I wonder if there's another gameplay where he supports the frontline with units and how he copes with simultaniously holding front and building the base.
Came here to learn what an AFU was, well I figured it out. Back player was playing SIMCITY for first 38 minutes before even attempting to scout the enemy. Because of that and not supporting the front line they completely got dicked.
I think he couldve won the game at the 27 minute mark. Somtimes its not enought to just take the frontline back. By stopping at the front lines the enemies were able to gain their momentum back.
It's crazy how little can matter and how it can escalate into anything in this game. A few shots less from the enemy ragna and the end result could've been the total opposite.
I have no idea what's going on but that looked pretty epic. Front line gets nuked and the booming player suddenly kicks into action by flooding the field with tics. Inspired by your min maxing, I played my first 2 games over the weekend. I don't understand energy converters. I was spamming some units to the frontline and I noticed that my energy bar was near full so I threw down a whole bunch of energy converters but most of them were off which probably means I can't support it. But if that's the case why was my energy bar "overflowing". I tested in another game with an AI and noticed that if I have a lot of nanos next to my bot factory, the energy converters would turn on when I'm not building anything and turn off when I start building stuff. I wonder if that means I had too much build power consuming too much energy which then turned off the energy converters and made metal an even bigger bottleneck. I have no idea.
Almost all buildings and units, with a few rare exceptions (like basic solar), cost energy as well as metal to construct. Air units in particular cost a lot more energy. Converters in BAR automatically shut off when energy gets below a certain threshold, which is set by the little slider brackets on your energy bar up at the top. To use converters effectively, you must have enough energy production to support unit construction, and then extra energy production to support the converters themselves. Otherwise, your converters will shut off when you start making units The recommended ratio of 4 Advanced Converters per AFU leaves you with 600 surplus energy per AFU constructed for making units and structures. This is usually enough, but not always. I like to build an additional extra standard fusion reactor to make sure my unit construction never slows down my metal income. You should always be continuously expanding energy production throughout the game. Sometimes you need to ramp up faster, sometimes slower, but generally always be putting at least something into energy production. There is no thing as too much energy, if it feels like you have too much energy it's because there's not enough converters or build power. In a large team game, it makes sense to overbuild a few Advanced Converters, so if your teammates float energy, you can turn that into metal, just like MBT is doing in this game.
@@TheLingWhisperer Thanks for the detailed reply. I thought the sliders on the energy bar were for sending resources to team mates but now that I know they also affect energy converters, I'll play around with that as well. My economy stalled in the first 2 games so I never got to T2 properly while spamming frontline units. Is there a ratio for energy converters to windmills/solar panels? Probably not since it's better to get T2 stuff? Which leads me to ask what numbers do you look for when deciding when you can afford to go to T2 and when you can build an AFUS? Coming from SC2 and AoE4, I'm used to knowing exactly when I can afford stuff since building things eats up the required resources immediately. BAR's resource management is very foreign to me.
Its funny that drongo has no idea he just casted MBT while he was completely trolling 100%. He could've started pumping thors after 3rd afus and killed anyone he wanted. Great analysis of someone throwing the game because they don't feel like winning.
I built a ton of nukes once recently to break through and what's really cool is seeing the explosions happen in the air as they get closer and closer to the enemy base, taking out a lot of them as you see explosions happening all the way towards the enemy base, but then some get through and everything goes boom. Was the first time I'd ever mass nuked someone (sent a volley of like 20 core nukes at once) and it was cool to see. I think a single silo can actually handle 5 simultaneous nukes, because I had a volley of like 5-10 in that same game the first launch and they were all stopped, I think by just one. You can kind of tell by where they explode how many anti-nukes are shooting back.
I've had 7 before. That was in response to having 4 and realizing only one was making it through each volley. As Armada your nukes resupply a little faster and eventually I overwhelmed their AntiNuke that way. Easily done as the eco.
19:00 YES i also don't like when people put their nanos next to the edge of the map, it kinda wastes their range xD i would also maybe rotate that air lab
Mhm he really managed the resources energy, metal and buildpower well. But he didn't really participated in map control. So he was outgrowing most in eco but had to compensate for 2-3 fallen teammates as well.
idk but it seems like MBT over committed on eco and by the time he started doing stuff it was too late.... like you can't just make villagers until you are popcapped
I played with this guy on Supreme Strait, I stole his weak side navy build. It has won me my lane a few games, and at worst I contest ocean for awhile until I'm pushed out by strong side.
MBT made critically bad strategic decision to build ragnarok without towers, he felt overconfident to expose it that way; anyway dujavi won the game with 2x less metal income which fortunately proves the game is not all about porc :)
Um, if you set targeted an Annihilator out of its range it would stay up all the time and still kill what ever got into range. Did you never learn that?😅 Kind of the exact opposite of the Vulcan and Buzzsaw which could be targeted near its base which would let you lob the shells 3-5 times farther then the Intimidator… And yes MBT made a hell of an eco, but should have been spamming titans instead of ticks.
This video sponsored by MBT lmao Idk about y'all but I was rooting for the other team. What the point of having that much eco when you can't field it effectively lol
So… peak BAR backline gameplay = sit back, eco eternally, do nothing else? Cool. Think I’ll stick with SupCom: Forged Alliance. More happening for the backlines there.
absolutely pointless. just scale to half of what he did and push the canyon. Tired of seeing greedy players get reassurance from youtubers and making every high level player solely play Sim City.
53 minute video 46 minutes watching blue eco...there ya go just saved you an hour...maybe focus more on the action instead on one player..idk just my thoughts
Did we watch the same game? The entire team carried MBT so that he could ramp up his eco, and when time came for MBT to do his part, he failed miserably.
@@iglidor his team didnt carry him. i agree that he should have helped his team earlier. but at the same time mbt is a better back player then all of these commenters backseat gaming him. obviously his passive strategy works. his team was just worse. his front players got pushed back even without help of enemy eco and his air player had a phobia of fighters. his team lost, happens.
@@angulinhiduje6093His frontline players spent the entire game spending resources to stop everyone from dying to the enemy frontline. When MBT had his eco up and running he should have been making T2/T3 units to reinforce the frontline and possibly counterpush. At 20 minutes he had 5 AFUs to the enemy's total 3. The entire frontline was just gone. His relative advantage over the enemy was probably about as large as it was ever going to get - They'd invested more resources into pushing, didn't have as many AFUs etc. Instead he sat around for another 20 minutes contributing relatively little to the front line while the enemy caught up, ecod on more metal, etc. Imagine if he'd turned his resources into more units at that point - he could probably have mopped up many of the enemy's gains while they tried to get their own AFUs up, his team could have recovered and ecod on new metal, etc. Obviously hindsight, but I think he could have started carrying frontline anywhere from 20-30minutes, let up on the AFU spam and been much more helpful. For christ's sake, the enemy eco players with half his AFU count got a ragnarok up before he did (because he spent 100k metal on 10 more AFU instead of a ragnarok). He invested way too much into sim and none into fighting.
I feel like the commentator failed to see the other side of the coin - MBT's direct opponent had half the eco but still outperformed him. Instead of focusing on the pure eco builds, it might be best to study those who can do more with less. I am curious what the other team saw that allowed them to push so hard at the right time as there wasn't much scouting involved that I've noticed.
Yeah well the focus was on one player not a whole map cast, but I see your point would have been interesting
Not really. His team did pretty much nothing. The enemy team had multiple people pushing and throwing nukes.
MBT famous for selfish play and huge toxicity.
The first time I played with him, it was me and some new friends. Hard fought game, and MBT got increasingly salty over time.
A leak hurt him a little, he didnt get gifted metal when he asked, and he started cussing out the team.
35 minutes in, my teammates have a hard fought defense going. Our strongest eco player repeatedly asked for a particular hill for a lolcannon.
MBT starts swearing at him and builds a turret to block him. Our eco reclaims it, builds a lolcannon.
As it was finishing, MBT Dgunned the friendly eco's afus line because "you don't fucking deserve to win".
We all pass over our afuses to try and get the cannon firing. MBT friendly fires the afus core.
I do not like this man.
A very good point. I think he scaled into the air constructors and then Ragnarok too late in the game. I feel that the eco-scaling part and aircraft/tick spam was epic. He was way ahead of any of the other backlines by 4x thru most of the game on the eco-scaling front. If he cut it off earlier he could have had his Ragnarok up first by a solid margin. I think he got lost in the defense and without the knowledge of how far he was ahead from scouting he didn't know that he had the freedom to cut the scaling off and close out the game. Excellent player though, worlds of difference better than I could manage.
@@Lightwolf_VR what an asshat
Gods, he had SOOOO much resources, he should have been FLOODING the frontlines with something other than small shits.
always the backlined with too much eco xD
27:33 yes, there are four resources, but the 4th is just time.
Intel = time: You will find out about the opponent's Ragnarok eventually, but finding out about it now means you have some time to respond to it, whether that be by attacking it or by building defences.
Learning about the upcoming juggernauts just means that you can do something about them before they crash into your front.
Maneuverability is also just time, for air units 10 seconds may be enough time to react to an attack, where for vehicles you might need closer to 25 seconds to react in time.
Aerial build power is just the combination of build power and time via maneuverability.
He scaled his eco well sure, However he used his Eco defensively instead of decisively, waited way too long as the front lines were crumpling and only gave it a temporary fix and started waiting again.
13:40 one thing you seemed to miss was he quickly started reclaiming those converters once he knew they were likely to chain explode. he saved like 4 of them, which while not amazing, is still pretty impressive
That's only 4 metal though, the basic ones are worth 1 metal 1200 energy
@@andrewgreeb916 The point was to minimize chain explosion damage, not make metal. Those quick actions may have saved the anti-air turret close by, which is worth metal and was later reclaimed. Not sure on the radius of the explosions, but it may have mattered.
MBT with all that eco for so much of the game, made nothing but negligible mass of ticks and defensive air. The only thing he carried was the match timer after letting the people in front of him die. Copy his eco build order, and once you get you're second or 3rd AFUS, actually start contributing to the game and win.
So treu imo. Once he started pushing those t3 because he had to. He should have just kept at it. They were pushing back at that time, I truly think they could have done some crippeling damage to the enemy then.
At the very least, he could have gotten out an early Thor or two and reinforced his Frontline to push back out. Once he was at like 9-10 AFUS he could build a Thor and an AFUS at the same time without stalling. No reason to wait till 35 minutes to use your Gantry, and stop after 6'ish Marauders.
did you see the summary? how much damage and resources to allies he provided
enormous
@@asldfjkalsdfjasdf sure, but he always acted reactivly, never proactivly. He mostly helped teammates only when the enemy was practicly in their base and barely helped to reinforce a propper frontline, only being basically the last line of defense, which is not good if you loose most of the map control.
His eco build is insane no question, but working well with any type of teammates is also a skill. He could have sent actual units to the frontline trying to push back, besides just the cheapest spam. Yes that helped in that situation to bait shots away from good units and he did have some mechs at the front, but then basically went back to only making ticks which wont help much besides delaying the enemy.
If he started constantly producing T3 units after the tick spam, imo they could have properly pushed back. I mean they did with his initial mech and spam support.
To go along with the dota/league examples, mbt farmed all game, then farmed some more, failed to help his team when he was needed the most and tried to deflect blame at the end.
When carrying you need to find a point where you decide to kill the enemy, how you do that is up to you, I've seen people kill bases with mass airdrop beamer turrets from the backline position, but you have to have a plan to win the game or you are only waiting to lose.
46:58 basicly why i hate playing with MBT and sometimes Dolfi, because they chill all game long while you have to sweat yourself to death.
Oh, yea... you got yourself some eco at the expense of the whole rest of the team... and based on if your "i have fun - troll gameplay" works we will win or lose, because you want to play SimCity and are to lazy to put in the micro as a high TS. I really hate these type of players and the new players that try to learn this "i want to be the MVP" style (but dont even understand when they can or cant be greedy) makes it even worse. Most top players will tell you "if you want to win... destory the enemy and eco with the metal that you get from that" but the "i sim city to become a hero" style is the most toxic style of gameplay i can think off. If you want to do this... please play against the AI and stop wasting your teammates time to become your b!tchboy support.
The issue is when it's not a means to an end, it's fine if your teammate does nothing but eco and slaps down a 20 minute calamity and makes the enemy have a bad day.
Or they eco up to juggernauts every 30 seconds.
Just having eco without a plan is planning to fail.
It's like in dota/league having a carry who is literally farming all game going to go farm some more instead of killing the enemy.
I agree he baited his team all game and was too late to save them, had no consideration for holding any space, or helping any damaged teammate from lack of support. Built a handfull of marauders and went back to jerking off again. If you are going to play sim city you may as well be donating afus to teammates, could literally have gone afk, overflowed his metal to teammates and they would have fought more effectively with it.
@@blind___ That's usually what I do when I eco a lot, I try to get to a point where I can prop up my teammates' production with overflowing resources. I usually don't go for excessive strategic weaponry or t3 units.
You were right by the way on the extra converters, he's taking advantage of 3 other players' excess energy. Generally it's definitely worth overbuilding energy converters at least a little, because teammates are never perfect :)
He got the ragnarok down way later than red who had way less eco, and then he flames. What a toxic gamer.
Drongo, this is not an example of excellent backline play. This is an example of shitty backline play, but great resource efficiency and base-building organization. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I think this is a bad example of "good" backline play. If you spend the whole game scaling and macroing your base, but never supporting your front line, you're dooming your team.
-He could have started T1 spam earlier to support the front line, but didn't
-He could have gifted T2 to his team, but didn't
-He could have put up an early anti-nuke, but didn't (had TWO AFUS, but no anti-nuke yet, wtf!)
-He could have sent intermittent waves of T2 or T3 to put pressure on the opposing team, but didn't
-He could have gifted AFUS + converters to players in need as their front line was failing, but didn't
All of MBT's "backline support" was reactionary, producing solutions to problems that could have been avoided had he devoted some resources to actual support for his team. You emphasized the importance of backliners keeping an eye on the status of the front line to determine when to shift their economic focus to the front, if only temporarily - well the front line took a along time collapsing and he did literally nothing to stop it until it was too late. What good is all that economy if you don't leverage some of it to put pressure back on the opposing team? The front line was already collapsed by the time he realized he needed to send some units up for support.
I agree. I tend to eco just a bit slower, but I support my front with units that are typically a tech above what's attacking or if they've been pushed and suffered, I toss them some eco buildings.
Strongly agree
Sounds in line with another commenter that this MBT is a terrible team player
Not only that but the bottom team didn't even bother deep scouting or deep air penetration strikes. They could been building the Deathstar up there and team bottom would never have known.
He also NEVER moved the red slider down to even share all those resources.
cleverly placed AFUS behind the lil pillar too - protected from alot of artillery angles.
I always find it odd how much back liners focus on playing sim city. The thing is, afus are amazing, but almost every game I see, early aggression is either met with counter investment, being a wash, or it is game ending or massively profitable. Sure, waiting another 3 minutes to build your first unit is a ton of economy... but it's a ton of economy for both players.
I would be curious to hear your perspective on your gantry rush games... what happens if you just don't reclaim the gantry? I am sure you have tried it. Just build more T3 units, and continue to keep pressure up. If the front line is so porous you can walk 15 marauders through it, AND when you do, pulling 3 players to their back line... what happens if you just make some random beef out of your gantry and keep fighting?
In particular, I notice in your nuke rush game on supreme straits, after about nuke 2-3, the front line was not pushing at all... and then someone said "hey, front line, move forwards" and the game IMMEDIATELY ended. YOU could be the front line that moves forwards. One of the things a skilled player brings is decision making, and putting your least skilled players on the front line means there is probably quite a bit of value to be gained from decisive decision making.
>what happens if you just make some random beef out of your gantry and keep fighting?
The metal donation, is what happens. You are not going to be able to outperform a skilled defense, you are going to both waste your scaling opportunities and enrich the enemy. This lack of understanding of why backline simcity is necessary is a sure sign of low-skill player.
Like the idea of the greed with the energy converters. He started the greed when the wind was super high. Maybe he did it knowing his allies were probably overflowing with their windmills and knew he could eek out just a bit more metal than normal.
24:14 "This is where the game looks like it might be over"
Me, checking to see that I'm not halfway through the video:
if you want to select cons with normal units press Shift, otherwise you can just select one units and ctrl+Z to select all of that type
About mobile aerial buildpower - don't forget that air transports can move construction turrets! They are much more efficient sources of buildpower than T1 construction aircraft, if you can fit them in wherever you're trying to build.
Yeah but that's a lot of micro when you'd probably be better off ordering up fresh construction turrets at the build site, could even have the old ones reclaim each other if resources are slim.
The fifth resource he didn't mention is APM, which is intrinsic to the player and is the only resource you cannot scale - you can only reduce consumption/change distribution
That really was too much screwing around out of MBT. Red didn't even have AFUs, yet he managed to throw down early air harrass AND he was the first one with the Ragnarok on the field, ending the game. Only needed half MBTs economy to do it.
im completely new in RTS games. downloaded BAR yesterday and i struggled and was stuck in a war-of-attrition against a normal diff bot for 2hrs before i finally managed to push back and destroy it.
that being said, even a newbie like me could spot some mistakes here. I've seen 3 other vids of backliners from ur channel, and in them, I've seen backliners donating units such as T2 engis, and also providing early frontline support. MBT did none of these things and the consequence was his frontlines eventually collapsed
still liked the gameplay - good way to learn the ways to efficiently build the base, however I wonder if there's another gameplay where he supports the frontline with units and how he copes with simultaniously holding front and building the base.
The guy on the bottom right caved in and the “air” player didn’t do their parts
AFUS rush works great as a solo eco player in a team game, it's good counterpart to duo player T2 mex rush.
It's always the backline who carries or is supposed to carry. Ready to see some front line action.
I appreciate you showing off a great game even if our main protag was not the victor.
This match is a cautionary tale showing the power of full eco, coupled with the necessity of timing.
How could you scroll away from mbt's afus explosion? What's wrong with you?
Clocked that, annoying
You can turn of/erase the map markings with the bottom-right "eraser-icon"
Came here to learn what an AFU was, well I figured it out. Back player was playing SIMCITY for first 38 minutes before even attempting to scout the enemy. Because of that and not supporting the front line they completely got dicked.
I find creating minion waves to be so freaking fun
I think he couldve won the game at the 27 minute mark. Somtimes its not enought to just take the frontline back. By stopping at the front lines the enemies were able to gain their momentum back.
It's crazy how little can matter and how it can escalate into anything in this game. A few shots less from the enemy ragna and the end result could've been the total opposite.
I have no idea what's going on but that looked pretty epic. Front line gets nuked and the booming player suddenly kicks into action by flooding the field with tics.
Inspired by your min maxing, I played my first 2 games over the weekend. I don't understand energy converters. I was spamming some units to the frontline and I noticed that my energy bar was near full so I threw down a whole bunch of energy converters but most of them were off which probably means I can't support it. But if that's the case why was my energy bar "overflowing".
I tested in another game with an AI and noticed that if I have a lot of nanos next to my bot factory, the energy converters would turn on when I'm not building anything and turn off when I start building stuff. I wonder if that means I had too much build power consuming too much energy which then turned off the energy converters and made metal an even bigger bottleneck. I have no idea.
Almost all buildings and units, with a few rare exceptions (like basic solar), cost energy as well as metal to construct. Air units in particular cost a lot more energy. Converters in BAR automatically shut off when energy gets below a certain threshold, which is set by the little slider brackets on your energy bar up at the top.
To use converters effectively, you must have enough energy production to support unit construction, and then extra energy production to support the converters themselves. Otherwise, your converters will shut off when you start making units
The recommended ratio of 4 Advanced Converters per AFU leaves you with 600 surplus energy per AFU constructed for making units and structures. This is usually enough, but not always. I like to build an additional extra standard fusion reactor to make sure my unit construction never slows down my metal income.
You should always be continuously expanding energy production throughout the game. Sometimes you need to ramp up faster, sometimes slower, but generally always be putting at least something into energy production. There is no thing as too much energy, if it feels like you have too much energy it's because there's not enough converters or build power.
In a large team game, it makes sense to overbuild a few Advanced Converters, so if your teammates float energy, you can turn that into metal, just like MBT is doing in this game.
@@TheLingWhisperer Thanks for the detailed reply. I thought the sliders on the energy bar were for sending resources to team mates but now that I know they also affect energy converters, I'll play around with that as well.
My economy stalled in the first 2 games so I never got to T2 properly while spamming frontline units. Is there a ratio for energy converters to windmills/solar panels? Probably not since it's better to get T2 stuff? Which leads me to ask what numbers do you look for when deciding when you can afford to go to T2 and when you can build an AFUS?
Coming from SC2 and AoE4, I'm used to knowing exactly when I can afford stuff since building things eats up the required resources immediately. BAR's resource management is very foreign to me.
Its funny that drongo has no idea he just casted MBT while he was completely trolling 100%. He could've started pumping thors after 3rd afus and killed anyone he wanted. Great analysis of someone throwing the game because they don't feel like winning.
32:27 | The term you are/were looking for is 'Overflow'.
I like your commentary style dude!
thank you mate :)
I like the idea of 5 silos. Those citadels can only fire off so quickly.
I built a ton of nukes once recently to break through and what's really cool is seeing the explosions happen in the air as they get closer and closer to the enemy base, taking out a lot of them as you see explosions happening all the way towards the enemy base, but then some get through and everything goes boom. Was the first time I'd ever mass nuked someone (sent a volley of like 20 core nukes at once) and it was cool to see. I think a single silo can actually handle 5 simultaneous nukes, because I had a volley of like 5-10 in that same game the first launch and they were all stopped, I think by just one. You can kind of tell by where they explode how many anti-nukes are shooting back.
I've had 7 before. That was in response to having 4 and realizing only one was making it through each volley. As Armada your nukes resupply a little faster and eventually I overwhelmed their AntiNuke that way. Easily done as the eco.
just starting to get into the game and loved this video thankyou!!
19:00 YES i also don't like when people put their nanos next to the edge of the map, it kinda wastes their range xD
i would also maybe rotate that air lab
"build 20 nukes" "no one does that" As my buddy nukes me with 50+ nukes in a game before.
Was a great game but mbt shouldve build the deflectors in front of his ragnarok it may dosnt include it but it should be tall enough to not get hit
Need more videos of BAR!
By far my favorite BAR creator :)
Late game commentary feels like I'm at the MCG.
That crazy how a siple Sniper ghost can cloack and destroy all the base in 1 afus blow =P All player never use Camera
Mhm he really managed the resources energy, metal and buildpower well. But he didn't really participated in map control. So he was outgrowing most in eco but had to compensate for 2-3 fallen teammates as well.
Been thinking of buying this game how decent is the amount of online multiplayer activity so far ?
Great analysis of a great player. Would be cool to see a deep dive into a top front line player in 8v8
A halo does indeed mean the unit was rezzed!
Doesn't watch the explosion of the base at the end........... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! WHYYYYYYY.
idk but it seems like MBT over committed on eco and by the time he started doing stuff it was too late.... like you can't just make villagers until you are popcapped
dolfy loves to make 20 nukes
Really like your videos :)
I played with this guy on Supreme Strait, I stole his weak side navy build. It has won me my lane a few games, and at worst I contest ocean for awhile until I'm pushed out by strong side.
What a match
People do that drongo!
MBT made critically bad strategic decision to build ragnarok without towers, he felt overconfident to expose it that way; anyway dujavi won the game with 2x less metal income which fortunately proves the game is not all about porc :)
I doomed a friend with 122 Nukes 😅
NGL, i just love your accent lmfao. But great vids too :P
Um, if you set targeted an Annihilator out of its range it would stay up all the time and still kill what ever got into range.
Did you never learn that?😅
Kind of the exact opposite of the Vulcan and Buzzsaw which could be targeted near its base which would let you lob the shells 3-5 times farther then the Intimidator…
And yes MBT made a hell of an eco, but should have been spamming titans instead of ticks.
Big fan man
miss ya drong
When pros do this its to lower their TS (troll game). Clyret started doing it too being totally useless and teams dying 😂
Why did MBT reclaim his MoHo's?
This video sponsored by MBT lmao
Idk about y'all but I was rooting for the other team. What the point of having that much eco when you can't field it effectively lol
So… peak BAR backline gameplay = sit back, eco eternally, do nothing else?
Cool. Think I’ll stick with SupCom: Forged Alliance. More happening for the backlines there.
Tachyon = TA-kee-yawn = TAA as is TAP / kee as in keep / yawn as in... well yawn. ahem.. yep
Why are they destroying their own commanders?
Missleading video title and thumbnail. He did NOT "carry from the backline", he lost his team the game by being passive.
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absolutely pointless. just scale to half of what he did and push the canyon. Tired of seeing greedy players get reassurance from youtubers and making every high level player solely play Sim City.
53 minute video 46 minutes watching blue eco...there ya go just saved you an hour...maybe focus more on the action instead on one player..idk just my thoughts
NO Berthas??? hahaha So lame. This is ridiculous
love how MBT carried the team and they still shit talked him... what is this, league?
Did we watch the same game? The entire team carried MBT so that he could ramp up his eco, and when time came for MBT to do his part, he failed miserably.
@@iglidor his team didnt carry him. i agree that he should have helped his team earlier. but at the same time mbt is a better back player then all of these commenters backseat gaming him.
obviously his passive strategy works.
his team was just worse. his front players got pushed back even without help of enemy eco and his air player had a phobia of fighters.
his team lost, happens.
@@angulinhiduje6093His frontline players spent the entire game spending resources to stop everyone from dying to the enemy frontline. When MBT had his eco up and running he should have been making T2/T3 units to reinforce the frontline and possibly counterpush. At 20 minutes he had 5 AFUs to the enemy's total 3. The entire frontline was just gone. His relative advantage over the enemy was probably about as large as it was ever going to get - They'd invested more resources into pushing, didn't have as many AFUs etc.
Instead he sat around for another 20 minutes contributing relatively little to the front line while the enemy caught up, ecod on more metal, etc. Imagine if he'd turned his resources into more units at that point - he could probably have mopped up many of the enemy's gains while they tried to get their own AFUs up, his team could have recovered and ecod on new metal, etc.
Obviously hindsight, but I think he could have started carrying frontline anywhere from 20-30minutes, let up on the AFU spam and been much more helpful. For christ's sake, the enemy eco players with half his AFU count got a ragnarok up before he did (because he spent 100k metal on 10 more AFU instead of a ragnarok). He invested way too much into sim and none into fighting.
I love gamer tags. It's top tier player the strategic genius… momsboytoy
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