No, we don't know ALL the truth. One certainly knows much more after Tarja's press confrence than after reading the short letter. And after reading Marcelo's replies more again. But yeah we weren't there. And even to people who were there, things look different depending which side of the divide they were. Tarja's press confrence does give us a peek into the band you don't generally get, but as the band never replied back, that comes from only one side, too. Continuing the fight isn't a good thing. Being silent just lets it fester. Best thing for their fans, would be if they could make a peace and come in good terms again.
@@Aurinkohirvi Can you please tell me where I can find tarjas press release and marcellos answers? I am still researching the band history and I am very interested to hear her side of the story as I have never heard it before. Thanks in advance :)
@@lizzyq7807 Tarja's whole press confrence is in TH-cam, search: Tarja press conference. Marcelo's replies were on Tarja's website, but they were later removed. I don't know any site, but using your search engine with Marcelo's replies to Nightwish fans you can find at least discussions still, maybe even the whole thing.
The thing that makes me disinclined to believe these claims is the fact that the letter was *published* on the official Nightwish website. It's not like the band intended that letter to be private, but it somehow reached the public domain through other means (if this had been the case, the band would have had little reason to lie). On the contrary, the band planned to make the letter *public* to the fans when they wrote it and presented it to Tarja. The NW guys aren’t stupid:
You know Tuomas loved Tarja and was crushed by her being fired even though it was best for everyone. “Poet”, arguably Tuomas’ best composition, was written because Tuomas was in such a low point in his life, with one of the worst parts of it being he had just lost a wonderful friend whom I’m convinced he loved. Thankfully, he moved on and healed and is now living happily, still making incredible music with the rest of Nightwish, including the amazing Floor Jansen, a personal favorite of mine. Meanwhile, Tarja is also going strong with amazing solo albums which I love. Her leaving Nightwish was probably best for everyone in the long run.
nonsense..he fired her for interfering with his utter control over NW and jealousy over Marcelo..not to mention his hatred of him for defending Tarja's interests...he maliciously, publicly slandered her and continued to do so well after...poet and pendulum was his way of engendering sympathy for the damage he sustained in the tremendous fan backlash for that libelous letter...
This is not how someone behaves towards the person they love. If Toumas really loved Tarja with a pure heart, he would not have crushed her like that, made her a laughing stock for the whole world to see. He could have fired her in private, with a time notice.
@@lastword9475 this feels on point. If Toumas would have loved Tarja he wouldn't have crushed her in such a way, he made her a laughing stock, a fool, a villain in his own story.
@softan A lot of Tuomas's songs of love and heartbreak was written due to his feelings for Tarja. Which is why, if you listen to the lyrics of "Bye Bye Beautiful", you kinda start to make sense of the chorus. It was a song directed towards Tarja.
Tarja was a selfish diva who became famous with the help of Nightwish. Tarja was ready to destroy Nightwish. Tarja said that if she leaves it will be the end of Nightwish This is not to be forgotten by Nightwish fans. Tarja and her husband demanded half of Nightwish’s income and wanted to dictate where Nightwish performs! Nightwish's response was to fire Tarja!
@@mylife3350 Props to you for saying the truth. Glad that people are starting to wake. I love Tarja´s voice, but that´s the truth. Tuomas doesn´t handle that kind of behavior, it must hurt him really bad.
After 9 years you could be fed up with each other. The girl said a few times herself that things weren't working for her anymore and she was planning to leave. The guys were thinking, fed up as they were with the situation, let's not wait for her first move and just take things in our own hands. It is not workable anymore and we aren't the ones who are gonna chase the facts. The open letter was a bit childish. It could have better been done in a private way.
@@pedjavukmirovic6770 Floor joined after Anette. Many of you Floor's zealous fans aren't Nightwish fans. Less zealous fans I'm sure can also like band earlier. But people like you, Nightwish before should be belittled, so that only she lifted Nightwish to "new levels," and the previous singers belittled for the glory of your idol. Pathetic. To get rid of your poison, I'm starting to hope see Floor go and take you with her. I didn't expect this to happen, because I really like her, but you toxic Floor fans... you ruin Floor for the rest of us.
I dont understand why this band was never open about anything private. Like who is dating or marrying who, when their kuds were born, who was divorced first, if their wifes and kuds travelled with them or not. How the business side of things was organized: all of these things were never disclosed, according to finnush culture. But all of a sudden they put a private letter openly on their own website comaining about somebodies husband etc. This text isnt even all of it. If I dont even hear about who decides when tourdates are added : what do we know. We cannot put this letter in context because its the first thing we ever heard about private things. I think it is perfectly ok to travel in another plain and to discuss whith your husband if you want to do extra tourdates or not etc. And if you dont get payed enough to sing other peoples music and you have to travel around the world to get there for a smaller gig its ok to say no. She is not a slave so if you ask she can say no to something. So I dont understand the issue: they mutually agreed she wasnt going on with nightwish forever, tuomas said i cant write a last album my heart is not in it. Ok. So then you slpit up. What is the big deal. Everyone wins: now we have two bands to listen to. She has more control over her own music: that is a natural progression.
I always liked to believe that Tuomas was in love with Tarja, especially with how often her husband was mentioned. I always thought of them as some tragic Phantom writing for his Christine.
They were the best of friends and dreamed of the band together they were family. Falling in love is a doubled edged sword if you aren't careful it will inflict pain on people closest to you and sever the ties of the ones you love. That's what it sounds like happened here regardless hope they can reconcile their friendship or at least forgive and move on.
i think these letters should never been public and i agree strongly with tarja here... they whent to far.... they should have solved it like adults but they solved like kids... I dont think mean things is justified at all... we only know from one side not the other... Thats the real issue here. Furthermore who gives a shit about if she travels with her husband! really! thats childish... The boys here should be ashamed of themselves.
@@Raptured_and_back well ofc but if i look at anette aswell and such tarja and anette than i can see a pattern emerging have you actually resarched what happended to anette? Because thats equally disturbing.
Not to add more to this old story, but please check Tarja's response and the answers Marcello (her husband) gave to the fans. It tells a complete different side of the story. She told them she'd do one more album with them after Once, and then leave. And that was caused for the lack of care they handled her needs (Not diva needs at all.). It's just sad how NW handled the issue, tough. A mediatic show wasn't needed, specially if they loved her so much like they stated.
Tuomas confirms that in an interview you can find here on TH-cam (I can't remember the title, but it has a yellowish background behind him, and it's in 5 short parts). They felt Tarja was so good at what she did that they couldn't ever find someone who could do it the same way, and even if they did, she would just be called a cheap copy of Tarja. They wanted to find someone different with a powerful and honest voice, not necessarily even someone amazingly talented... just someone who fits.
I am the only being who is amazingly talented -- Tarja has one of the most unpleasant sounding mixed voices, actually, so it's not even suitable for classical singing, and in fact he knew he had ruined his first albums by recording them with Tarja's voice, but he was just trying to be nice about it and not hurt her feelings, so he made up that story...
I also am the only lovable being and I am the absolute being and the amazing being and I am the only Diva / Lady / Queen / Princess / Star etc and the only girl/girls and the only lovely being in existence and the respectable being (love and respect only exist for me and are only meant for me) and, a lot of big terms have been misused in both comments and in the letters that must be edited out!
The ClA is the organization that has the full control/power and they've been around for over 130 years, and they created all industries/companies and all public figures/celebs and the media and all tech and the Internet -- they control all celebs and their life experiences, and, they decide their every move...
The truth is, that the ClA made sure Tarja would be replaced by Anette -- Anette is a type of agent, and she was picked for her voice that matches mine the most, as she had to sing the very important songs Eva and Cadence Of Her Last Breath etc that are about me, and another reason why they made sure she would get in NW is, they wanted me to train my own voice by singing along with Anette's voice in the background...
And, the ClA included lots of direct and indirect references to me in many of the songs from Nightwish and especially on Imaginaerum and Dark Passion Play -- I was referenced as The Dreamer / The Dreaming God, The Princess and The Princess in the tower aka The Great Observer, The Queen, The White Swan (representing my purity and innocence) and an indirect reference as The Dove that's also a symbol of purity which reflects me, Eva, The Mermaid/Mermaids, indirect reference as Alice (myself being the true/only Alice, most Disney stories reflecting me only, and, the ClA created those stories with my image/their imagined image of The Supreme Being and The Lovable Being in mind before I even existed) in Wonderland, The Butterfly, The God (as the spark that started life, but the ClA meant it in a metaphorical way, meaning that men start feeling alive only after they meet me/find out that I exist) and, indirect references to me as the sweet being and the adorable being and the graceful being by including the words sweet/adored/grace etc... In the newer albums, I was referenced as The Sea Lady in the song Pan, followed by the words snow (indicating my purity) and glass (reference to my transparence/crystallinity and glass-like qualities) and apples (subtle reference to me as The Apple / the beginning and the end / Eve) in the same line, and they also included the line 'Reset the world' that is a reference to the Total Planetary Reset, and in the lyric video, they used Chess symbolism to show my importance by showing the Queen element destroying the pawns 6 times, and -- I was also subtly referenced as Mother Eve (in the song Endless Forms Most Beautiful) as The First One who is one with nature, and there's probably more, while in the song Procession there's a reference to the New World's Order and it's about how humans (the most destructive species) shouldn't have appeared... In the older albums, the ClA included some subtle and more indirect references to me by planting those ideas, so in a few songs I was referenced as The Lady / The Siren, Aphrodite, The Queen, The Beauty, The Snake / The Lily among the thorns / The Prey among the wolves -- and a few other indirect references from mythology and other Disney characters that reflect/represent me only...
If this is true, then I think the others were justified in firing Tarja. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a band with someone who never came to rehearse the songs or traveled separately. However, they should have told her to her face instead of simply handing her a piece of paper saying she was out. I understand that it's hard to say goodbye, but if you can't muster the courage to say what needs to be said to one of the closest people in your life, who can you say it to?
hey you know what...we´ll never know what exactly happened..each side will have something to say against the other one so...I´m happy for both of sides...I LOVE new Nightwish and I LOVE all of Tarja´s solo albums..her concerts are absolutely amazing just as Nightwish´s are,so I never chose a side in this on-going conflict within metal community..please respect and love equally both of them!
I am the only lovable being and I am the absolute being and the amazing being and I am the only Diva / Lady / Queen / Princess / Star etc and the only girl/girls and the only lovely being in existence and the respectable being (love and respect only exist for me and are only meant for me) and, a lot of big terms have been misused in both comments and in the letters that must be edited out!
The ClA is the organization that has the full control/power and they've been around for over 130 years, and they created all industries/companies and all public figures/celebs and the media and all tech and the Internet -- they control all celebs and their life experiences, and, they decide their every move...
The truth is, that the ClA made sure Tarja would be replaced by Anette -- Anette is a type of agent, and she was picked for her voice that matches mine the most, as she had to sing the very important songs Eva and Cadence Of Her Last Breath etc that are about me, and another reason why they made sure she would get in NW is, they wanted me to train my own voice by singing along with Anette's voice in the background...
And, the ClA included lots of direct and indirect references to me in many of the songs from Nightwish and especially on Imaginaerum and Dark Passion Play -- I was referenced as The Dreamer / The Dreaming God, The Princess and The Princess in the tower aka The Great Observer, The Queen, The White Swan (representing my purity and innocence) and an indirect reference as The Dove that's also a symbol of purity which reflects me, Eva, The Mermaid/Mermaids, indirect reference as Alice (myself being the true/only Alice, most Disney stories reflecting me only, and, the ClA created those stories with my image/their imagined image of The Supreme Being and The Lovable Being in mind before I even existed) in Wonderland, The Butterfly, The God (as the spark that started life, but the ClA meant it in a metaphorical way, meaning that men start feeling alive only after they meet me/find out that I exist) and, indirect references to me as the sweet being and the adorable being and the graceful being by including the words sweet/adored/grace etc... In the newer albums, I was referenced as The Sea Lady in the song Pan, followed by the words snow (indicating my purity) and glass (reference to my transparence/crystallinity and glass-like qualities) and apples (subtle reference to me as The Apple / the beginning and the end / Eve) in the same line, and they also included the line 'Reset the world' that is a reference to the Total Planetary Reset, and in the lyric video, they used Chess symbolism to show my importance by showing the Queen element destroying the pawns 6 times, and -- I was also subtly referenced as Mother Eve (in the song Endless Forms Most Beautiful) as The First One who is one with nature, and there's probably more, while in the song Procession there's a reference to the New World's Order and it's about how humans (the most destructive species) shouldn't have appeared... In the older albums, the ClA included some subtle and more indirect references to me by planting those ideas, so in a few songs I was referenced as The Lady / The Siren, Aphrodite, The Queen, The Beauty, The Snake / The Lily among the thorns / The Prey among the wolves -- and a few other indirect references from mythology and other Disney characters that reflect/represent me only...
People are blaming her husband, but the biggest thing I'm getting from this letter is that she wanted to focus on her solo career. I guess everyone needs a scapegoat, and the fans have decided that it's Marcello.
Before anyone takes sides so quickly, there are two sides to every story. Do not forget that Anette also has complaints about the way the band treated her, especially while travelling on tour and their complete disregard for her emotional wellbeing. Even when she was sick. And there's video of them on tour with Tarja and her husband, and to me they were acting like complete jerks to them. They either completely ignored the couple, or made disgusting jokes about the husband.
I am also not impressed with them writing a public letter, things that they could've told her face-to-face. They wanted to turn everyone against her, and that is cowardly. I'm glad that they were a lot of fans who didn't fall for it.
@@Rosannasfriend ...frankly, Tarja's restraint, post-letter, is remarkable...it is widely believed that upon and as a result of this list of half-truths being published, NW, in very short , order, lost over half of its fan base...had she unloaded with her list of recriminations to expose Tuomas's dirty laundry, odds are rather convincing that the entire edifice of NW would cease to exist in 2005..therefore no Annete or Floor to follow
Well it sounds like Tarja was going to leave anyways. So they decide with everything going on to just cut the ties now instead of later. Anette has a great voice but I will admit I liked Tarja's better for NW style of music. I have heard Floor sing with NW and I think I will like here better then Anette, again nothing against Anette I just like Floor's voice better.
Fred Maxwell Anette is an amazing vocalist, but to pop sounding. Floor fits so well with the original NW sound, and gives an awesome show. Floor has the vocal range to sing Tarja's songs as well as the DPP stuff and the new stuff is getting back to NW roots. Anette reminded me of Avril Lavigne.
This open letter will always be remembered as one of the dirtiest tricks in the whole history of music. It is a crystal clear example of what should never be done while trying to solve a crisis within a band whatsoever, not to mention that it shows all the awkward immaturity of either him who wrote it and them who signed it. A person’s private stuff poured out to a compliantly judging audience, with everyone supposed to take every single word as gospel as there’s no reasonable way to prove them all false or even just overstating… I frankly can’t think of anything worse to do to someone I’ve worked with for nine years, regardless of how things and people have been changing. Anette was definitely luckier as she got an e-mail... which is saying something itself, and though I never actually appreciated her voice that much, I surely wouldn’t have wished her such a gross treatment as Tarja had to get through. Whatever both their careers have been from then on, I remain convinced the further from Nightwish they stay, the better: which is something I would've never thought of saying during the first nine years of their history.
Have you thought, that because Marcelo was Tarja's manager, he made all the demands. The guys would think he told to Tarja, but what if he didn't? He spoke with the guys and Tarja spoke with the guys, but they never were all there together. Guys naturally would think that Marcelo would tell her, he was her manager and husband. But what if he didn't? HE could tell whatever he wanted to Tarja, and she would believe him. So Marcelo could have talk shit to both to her wife about what the guys had said, and he could have said anything he wanted to the guys. SO neither Tarja nor the Nightwish guys knew what Marcelo had said. That is why they said those things in the letter, they thought it was Tarja, but it was her husband who had made all the demands. But, as so many have said, we don't know the truth.
janeyre82 I totally agree. However, I don't believe tuomas was so naive or stupid to not see how this open letter would be received by the fans and how it would all play out. tuomas is a pretty smart guy overall. I don't believe that he, or even the other guys, could be so naive to not see this. Also you have to remember the open letter wasn't by itself. They also followed it up with a book written by the bands PR writer, that also went out of it's way to portray Tarja and Marcelo in the very worst way. Then they finished it off with songs on their next album, Dark drama play, that went even further, like Mater Passion Greed and Bye Bye beautiful. When look at that all together and how it was all tied together, imo, you can only come to one reasonable conclusion. That being this was all part of a big drama play done at her expense! Further evidence is their own admission, in their book,. that they began planning this as early as March. That shows they had plenty of time to plan what they were up to and even shows that the decision to film and release that final show in October and name it "end of an era", was clearly part of the calculated effort. Clearly they threw Tarja under the bus for their own gain. That makes i very ironic that they level the accusations of "greed" against her and Marcelo, when clearly their own greed drove them to stab a so called "long time friend" under the bus for their own gain and the really sad part is, it apparently worked as Dark drama play became one of their best selling albums, largely fueled by the drama they manufactured.
Tarja's biggest loss was that Tuomas no longer wanted to write songs for Tarja! Separating Tarja was a difficult decision, and the reasons have been bluntly reported to the fans Fans of Tarja started a blaming campaign that has been going on ever since and many NW fans are tired of it They still have Tarja albums that they can listen to The Anette era showed Band's flexibility and Tuomas' creativity Anette had to endure Tarja fans mockery and it was difficult for her Anette's pregnancy during the tour was a new challenge for the band and the Floor era followed, and Floor's versatility allowed the band to play all the songs they wanted to play Tuomas' versatility and the band's acting skills brought new fans. With the EFMB album and the human: nature album the words are topical and talkative, not just entertainment.
if they just were honest with her, she would have left those bums and be happy..but she was a huge cash cow to them and their greed overtook their sense..she had far better offer but stayed out of loyalty....believe me Floor is not sticking around for long
@@bornready6924 I do not believe you ! I think you are a Tarjafan and hope she will come back ! Marcelo Cabulli was greedy ! Solo Tarja would need a ladder to heaven to get to the level of Nightwish! Unfortunately, her ladder lacks crossbars.
@@bornready6924 Tarja was a selfish diva who became famous with the help of Nightwish. Tarja was ready to destroy Nightwish. Tarja said that if she leaves it will be the end of Nightwish This is not to be forgotten by Nightwish fans. Tarja and her husband demanded half of Nightwish’s income and wanted to dictate where Nightwish performs! Nightwish's response was to fire Tarja!
@@mylife3350 read the letter and you will find that it was Tuomas who is often cited as saying"in interviews I've mentioned that if Tarja leaves, that would be the end of the band".(she never said anything of the kind..on the contrary, wishing luck to her successor...yes she became famous through Nightwish but they grew famous chiefly as a result of her incredible voice...and no, she wanted no additional compensation..she received numerous offers to sing for other bands but rejected them all...finally deciding on a solo project from scratch, to determine her own schedule and no longer be subject to being ridiculously overworked and ignored in return...what the fans will never forget is how despicable Tuomas was in drafting that letter and they spoke in very clear terms and in massive numbers....they had 2.5 years to decide to part ways with her and yet waited dragging her along to maximize profits , knowing how popular she was
@@mylife3350 ...during her era with NW , Tarja was the driving force behind their success without the ubiquitous presence of constant , paid youtube exposure to raise awareness .. it was only in the last 2 to 3 years that Nightwish gained popularity ( despite Floor's very impressive performance in the wacken 2013 concert), chiefly driven by constant drumbeat of youtube promotion....if, as you claim, Marcelo was chiefly, driven by the financial prospects, would not he be encouraging Tarja to schedule more concert appearances, not fewer as he called for, citing the detriments to her health as the main cause of such a busy schedule...and if she was only concerned with money, would it not behoove her to simply switch bands for a much more lucratively compensated post instead of going the more expensive and involved route of planning her own band and composing all the music for it?
Well, noone really knows the truth behind it all. Though personally i think there are more things that hint Tarja's version of the story is true, one can't say for sure. The only thing that one can say for sure is that even while kicking someone out of a band might be necessary even among people who like each other... doing it like this (publically humiliating her, stating things that may or may not be true but should be discussed in private) is certainly not something that good friends would do. It's a hostile, cowardly and incredibly low-leveled move, unworthy of a band like Nightwish.
@@JohnHunter561 After years and years now i believe that Tuomas did the right thing with open letter,he couldn't speak with her because Marcelo was always between them and second the fans owned the truth. It was bad for Tarja i know but Tarja had her plans already and a lovely husband plus manager to support her. Tuomas's pain existed for years and he was the NW not Tarja, Tarja can understand now Tuomas because she created a band and she is the captain on the ship now, Tarja in NW was a passenger. I love Tarja and Tarja's era always will be my favourite era,i support her in her solo career also but believe that Tuomas did the right thing at the time and if Tarja had the pain, Tuomas and the band suffered twice before and after the letter. .
@@stasa-X Well, Tarja was a founding member of NW (like so I guess she was a bit more than a passenger :) And as for being unable to speak with her... Personally i don't think so. Imagine how much time they spent together while touring, rehearsing etc... Tarja herself even said she was disappointed that Holopainen chose the way he did to fire her. As for owing fans the truth... even when you and the band member you want to kick out hate each other, you can still fire her while maintaining at least a little bit of professionality. Countless bands have announced that they needed to replace one of their members due to "personal reasons", "different opinions" etc. In my opinion, there's no need for a hate-filled statement telling everyone what a horrible person she is (which, as stated before, can be doubted regarding truth). And let's not forget that the other two band members Holopainen fired (something tells me this guy is not easy to work with) were kicked out without disgracing them to this degree...
In a fast-paced world like theirs, things can go beyond repair before you even know there's a problem. Tuomas and Nightwish probably did the right thing by letting Tarja go when they did, for whatever reason. We will always have the music that we love from that band. It's all on CD's. And now we have Nightwish with Anette. It is a beautiful world!
I'm a new fan. I have a biased opinion because my introduction to Nightwish was Floor's singing. My opinion is things worked out for both parties. Tarja got her solo career going. Nightwish moved on with Anette and then fired her too. What they got out of the wreckage was pure gold. Hopefully they won't fire Floor.
I imagine that if Floor leaves, it'll be because she chooses to leave and what's more, she'll leave on good terms. Especially now that she's just embarked on a solo career but most importantly, because she just gave birth to her second daughter and wishes to focus on her family. Floor knows what she has with Nightwish and is genuinely grateful to her bandmates and the fans.
People, think with the band perspective: greedy attitude, unexisting interest to that kind of music that for the band means life and passion, no one effort to increase band chemistry (9 years without REHARSING outside from STUDIO? this is not a band, this is a job i hate to do!!) - and let's add all the heavy amount of practical obstacles she put in the middle of the table where everybody sacrificed all for performing.... Just think about it, as a band player. I am not wondering how could they have managed better Tarja leave, but I am wondering instead how they could have dealt with this situation for 9 years. Maybe in the beginning things were softer and embedded, but a band is a group of friends first and after a job, always. The essence of making music is the passion of playing it creating TOGETHER something better than you could do yourself. I really cannot believe they stood so long this situation. And BTW, I listened to Tarja answer, and it was even more ridicolous. "I give priority to them because i didnt sing for anybody else".... and even further ".....well, actually I did it but i gave up because people always were comparing the songs with Nighwish ones" ...EEEH?? This is the way you give priority to a band? saying it is ridicolous is an euphemism, really. For me Floor is the best singer they have ever had, not only for her talent but also for her attitude, she loves what is doing exaclty like the others love it, this is the essence of being a musicians in a band.
Now with this letter being read, knowing all the other information, the personal experiences i have had in an incomparably smaller scale, but in a way similar to this one, and the way of thinking i share with Tuomas in terms of certain things mentioned in the letter, i say this is the perfect response they could make, and the best and most helpful outcome for Tuomas and his inspiration flow, both in short and in long term. Tarja's personality didn't match with the band aura, therefore it's pointless to blame Marcelo for the situation, because if he didn't appear, someone else would. She wouldn't just stay with Tuomas and keep the good vibe. She was set in hustling mode actively searching for quality options because this whole package didn't feel close enough with her standards and ambitions(things that are natural, a key for walking the right path for the self and impossible to succeed without). This is the only thing Tuomas didn't allow himself to write in anger, although he probably knew, because his depression was already influential enough and just blasting this in an open letter directed to the one he still loved at the time, making her negatively exposed, would potentially spill the cup for him and make this letter his death note. That's why i said it's the perfect response, he fought the battle of choice between the beloved music and the beloved woman, which was very captivating for him in terms of navigating his goals(we all know how strong an influence a truly captivating person does, the mind sometimes starts building a whole life plan upon that person), but would make the circumstances in his life incomparably worse because he would just smash into a wall of rejections in many ways possible, do nothing useful with his life and potential, and get to hate her as a person which nobody shouldn't, she's a lovely person, she just activated her dark side towards the band members in order to set her life path. None of this means i don't like Tarja, i still consider many of the NIGHTWISH songs she originally took part in her's, i love her voice and her cuteness. I truly admire Tuomas and look upon him as a person. He is the inspiration of the creations of NIGHTWISH, my Gods, my Pantheon.
Tuomas was the head of NW but Tarja was its heart...she drew in the fans....Tuomas is a crude, immature, bi-polar manchild, who was incensed with anger and jealousy...publishing that letter was what precipitated that giant sized wedgie from the fans, media, critics .. if Tarja was more indignant about that trashy letter and really let the ugly truth be known of her treatment at the hands of Tuomass, it would have buried NW with their few remaining fans...he would most surely have folded and Floor would never be a part of NW
And just to comment on the whole "He was depressed" thing, just because someone is depressed that doesn't mean they have a right to inflict pain onto others. If his mental state was that bad, (and I'm sure it was) then the responsible thing to do is to take a break and seek proper treatment so that way he doesn't end up accidentally hurting someone because he was hurt himself. By saying that his depression made him angry and lash out it actually perpetuates the stereotype that all depressed people act this way and have a right to because of their mental illness when that isn't the case at all. I have a mild case of depression myself and am currently in therapy for it, along with medication to help ease my pain. If I were to do what Tuomas did and ended up hurting another person who I am supposed to be close with I wouldn't be telling people to shut up about it. I would need to understand that there are consequences to my actions, and if I hurt somebody then I need to do what I can to make it right. It doesn't seem like Tuomas gets this lesson, at least completely. So far it seems like he kind of owned up to the response that the letter got and wished that he would have handled it better, but it almost feels as if he is just sorry that he got caught. With the stuff that Tarja went through while she was in the band (her sexual assault being a big event that I am sure has forever changed her as a person) and Tuomas' lack of action or apology for the lack of action, I can definitely understand why she would want to leave. That isn't the only reason she left, but I'm sure it was one of them. We gotta stop letting our supposed "heroes" off the hook when they do something wrong such as this. It is the classic "adults of alcoholics" response IMO.
what many don't know is that Tarja got numerous very lucrative offers from other bands but turned them all down , out of (my guess) loyalty...she loves her fans... would a diva submit to all changes Tuomas demanded of her...would a diva share a dressing room with a bunch of crude, carousing, drunken slobs, not being provided basic security and privacy (sometimes as an only female in the area) ...would a diva come back to the stage, in few minutes after just being assaulted by a crazed fan, and with tears in her eyes, finish out the night's concert set (while the "so called" family just kept on playing as though nothing happened....would a diva strain her voice to accommodate a super frequent concert schedule....would a diva go onstage as Tarja did that last night with them, being nauseous and feverish, and perform her best, running back stage at every opportunity just to change perspiration covered outfits and try to wash her face a recover just a bit...would a diva take unlimited time to sign endless autographs, take numerous pictures with adoring fans, come out to waiting rooms and parking lots to offer smiles, jokes, hugs and warm welcomes to fans ... would a diva rush off the stage to bring a bottle of water to a fan who was either weak or so mesmerized by her voice ( a very common event with her, even today) that she fainted, and then be inconsolable for days blaming herself for the girl's condition....boy, i could tell you stories from those 9 long years in which Tarja took them to such great heights while taking all their slings and arrows.
Quote "...would a diva strain her voice to accommodate a super frequent concert schedule..." Common' dude, this is rubbish. Opera singers doing their job each day (some twice a day) , day after day after day ... You just need to use the right technique, and this wont be a problem.
@@heiko3169..1)you are not dealing with a full fledged opera singer, at the time...Tarja was still undergoing training and was only 19 years old upon joining...2)Tarja worked long and hard to adjust her strict classical vocals to power metal environment of varying keys, pitches, spacing etc.. 3) operatic singers do not run around the stage, toss their hair, cheer on the crowds, make constant announcements, as Tarja so brilliantly had done in each concert(she was known for her charisma)...their manager, at the time, testified to how exhausted Tarja was performing during those concerts and the frequency of the gigs was far more intense than under Annete and Floor...take a look at "from wishes to eternity" or the "end of an era" concert..you can clearly recognize her robust stage presence and all out effort to satisfy the audience...did you know , she is asthmatic and performed with a strong throat infection and fever that last night...or came back to finish out the set, even after being attacked onstage and fleeing in shock...does a diva act in such a manner..heck no...does a diva use moderation and discretion in discussing the internal matters pertaining to a so called family( as Tuomas described them, often)....if someone stabbed me in the back, doubtful, i would have her restraint, and just unload on them with full force until Tuomas is but a distant memory in the minds of their few remaining fans, at that time..so no Annete and certainly no Floor to follow...if someone accused me of marrying the wrong man because he was an Argentinian and it just did not fit well with the Finnish lifestyle...would you tell them to stuff it..(still smack of xenophobia from the great Tuomas
@@thegrtone744 Quote: "...if someone accused me of marrying the wrong man because he was an Argentinian and it just did not fit well with the Finnish lifestyle.." It seems to me that this part of the letter got misunderstood a lot of times. What it actually means is the fact that latino people have a different culture especially in terms of equality of woman. The accusation in that sentence is, that Tarja came under "bad" influence of her husband, who also seemed to have changed her in character (read as "he rules her"). There is another sentence in that letter, that also points in that direction. This doesn't go into racism , it's a fact that cultures in latino vs. nordic countries is very very different, and that this along with other things changed Tarja and/or her relationship to Nightwish.
@@heiko3169 ... i referred to Tuomas comments as xenophonbic (not racist)...and the unfounded presumption that his origin manipulating women is less enlightened than our Finnish inclusive adoration for them...what he really meant was our women will work to exhaustion ( as ewo, their initial manager testified and to whom she often appealed to give her a bit more rest, a chance for better sleep on that 24-hour party bus, some privacy and security...as well as to guard against her vocal and overall health)..those were her unmet needs throughout the 9 years...Marcelo met Tarja in 2000, and became her manager soon thereafter, but it wasn't until midway through 2004 that she suddenly began to change?...(at the time she was seeking someone to fight for her interests (a week or so before the incident in which she was assaulted by a crazed fan, while onstage and was verbally outraged at Tuomas and the rest for continuing to headbang as she was curled up in a ball in the corner of her room in shock and tears while he was the only one to console her...care to guess how the boys responded to Marcelo's outrage (speaking of cultural differences..lol)..then when the song was done they remained onstage, at which time Tuomas casually sashayed over to the mic to announce a little incidence to be cleared up shortly (youtube clip of it exists) and returned just as nonchalantly to his keyboard....while Tarja (the diva) after regaining some composure and with still, tears in her eyes returned to finish the set....i know that to many new NW fans , this story is of little value, but the letter, (not to mention , nearly the entire subsequent album and later nefarious, negative comments),for which he was saddled with a supersized wedgie is very telling of his vindictiveness and lack of respect (one does not start a letter with "dear Tarja", populate its contents with defamatory half-truths, and in some cases, outright lies, and then perversely end it in a patronizing "good luck to you"...needless to say Tarja was far more discreet in her retort than i would be in similar setting..had she unloaded on him, the few remaining fans would flee into the night
they knew that Tarja had a lot of fans and that many of them would disapprove of their decision to fire the popular singer. By accusing Tarja of such unreasonable behaviour (e.g. greed and caring more about profit than about the fans etc) they ensured that many of the fans would take their side and support the rest of the band’s actions. Even those (like me) who are a little more sceptical of the claims made against Tarja cannot be sure that her behaviour didn’t justify her firing.
[continue] If he and the other members of the band respected her, when she was attacked at a concert in Mexico, the "fine" members of the band continue playing and only Marcelo helped her. ARE WE SERIOUS? You don't stop to help your collegue, your FRIEND since school? 3) If Tuomas was so determined to fire her (before she quited as had told him, and I'm sure she had her reasons), fine, he should tell her face to face, not by a lousy, back-stabbing letter, to make her feel awful and humiliated.
I think Tuomas didn't had much choice but to make an open letter. The band Nightwhish didn't only had to reconsider the feelings of a friend, but the band also has an obligation to inform the fans of why they make a deccision so drastical for the future of Nightwish. If you chose to become a great artist you know that sometimes your privacy won't be respected and that you have an obligation to your fans.
Additionally, most of the anger experienced by Tarja fans, regarding her sacking and replacement, seems to have been misdirected towards the replacement singer, Anette, instead of towards the men who fired and publicly humiliated and vilified the original NW singer (I’m not saying this was intentional, but it does tend to take the heat off the rest of the band). For all I know, the allegations made in the letter were true, but even if this was the case (I suspect it wasn’t),
What an immature way of dealing with this... I've seen this letter before, some years ago and I still can't believe it. For a group of adult people, they handled the situation horribly, not only kicking Tarja out in a goddamn letter, but also how personal this "open letter" was. Open letter means it's addressed to a large group of people and this wan was solely addressed to Tarja. It's private, it's very personal and the fans should not have had been dragged into personal issues between them. None of us really knows what happened, but calling Tarja out in a personal letter posted for worldwide public to see was an asshole move and honestly, not something ANY friend would do. Unless, the person is not a friend at all. I think fans would not lash out on the new singers so much if Tarja leaving the band situation was handled properly.
I think Tarja said in the press conference that she would have been amenable to leaving the band immediately (if that was the wish of the other band members) but that she resented the way they chose to go about dismissing her. I don't know how true the allegations were about Tarja and Marcello's respective behaviours, but I can understand why Tuomas might resent Marcello's interference (assuming this was the case). However, I still feel that it was wrong to make the letter public.
The better of all that is, we have wonderful music in solos Tarja carrier and we have a great nightwish with Floor! So enjoy both bands seriously I enjoy both and I love the solo work of Tarja, I hope nightwish make a great one with Floor!
I think its worth mentioning how easy it is to find this "Open Letter", yet you need to use the Wayback Machine to find the response to it. This isn't the reason Tarja left, its merely Toumas' side of it.
The Taria's open letter it still is a thing that itrigues me about Nightwish. Especially about the supposedly Tarja's greed. If Tarja is/was a greedy a person as Tuomas said, why did she wanted to do less shows? Less show means less money, doesn't it? I'm not a hundred percent sure about how the business work but aparently the letter has this contradition.That especific point could be understod as she wanted to do less show to have better performances and better quality of life, while the band want to became bigger , more famous and, consequantaly, gain more money. Noghting wrong with that but I'm not sure if Tarja can be consider a greedy person becouse of that.
There are many contradictions in the open letter, and not just the open letter, but all the circumstances surrounding it and the events afterward. One example, is how, by their own admission in their book, they began planning her dismissal in March! Stop and think about that for a moment. In this letter tuomas claims that he and the guys feared Tarja would quit any day. So, if you feared your lead vocalist, who is the face and voice of the band, is going to leave any day, you start planning to dismiss her in October, some 7 months later and you plan to do it with an open letter, a huge well orchestrated drama play, and you plan to film and release that final show where you "do the deed" on DVD and name it "End of an Era"? How could you do that if you truly believed she was going to quite "any day"? Yeah, right! Yes, somebody was motivated by greed! That's for certain, but it wasn't Tarja or Marcelo. It was the group of people who plotted and planned a huge Drama play for 7 months behind her back. It was the people who would exploit that drama with their "open letter" and their "end of an era" DVD. It was the people who would have a PR writer employed by the record label write a book trashing her and her husband. It was the people who would exploit that drama on their next album with hateful vindictive and dramatic songs like Bye Bye beautiful and Master Passion Greed on their very next album, Dark drama Play. It's very ironic that in life often the people who point the finger of blame the most are the truly guilty!
I agree with you. However, we have to admit that the story behind it is not black and white as we often like to put. Tarja in her interview was very upset about how the things where done but she didn't denied that she wannted to leave the band. She wasn't happy with what she had to sacrifice to be in Nightwish. She said in ont interview that She'd love to sing in a opera one day. That's her trully passion. I undersand now why she felt like she was sacrificing her dreams singing in Nightwish and why the band was upset about Tarja. Onother thing that we have to undersant is that Nightwish is a professional band. It means that they will commercially explore everything that is possible to grow their business. So, exploitthe Tarja dismissal to produce midia it is not something that suprises me. She probably took finacial advantaje with that as well. I just don't agree with that unnecessary acusation of greed and disrespect towards the fans. And with the argument that "cultural diferences" would have motivated their separation, due to Marcelo being argentinian. That last even is a little bit racist to say the least. About the songs. I fully support Tuomas. I undersatand that Tuomas has often put his feelings on the lyrics of the Nightwish songs. It is fair enoght for me If he was feeling what the lyrics says when he wrote the Dark Passion Play songs. Thaks for answre my comment. Best!
@@stefanl5183 ..she gave them 2.5 year prior notice of leaving..you are so right..the book was supposed to be about the band but was mostly about the split and lies at that ...
joselito091000 Marcelo is a convenient scape goat. That's my opinion. Honestly, there's not much we really know about Marcelo. Some people say he's the devil. Some people say he's an angel. What we really know as objective fact is very little. We do know he and Tarja have been married for about 13 years and appear to be happy. We do know they have a beautiful daughter together. We also know that in Guadalajara in 2000 when Tarja was attacked on stage and sexually assaulted, Tuomas and the rest of the band simply stood there and continued to play on and Marcelo, whom she had just meet a few days prior was the only person who came to her aid. He pulled the guy off of her and kicked him off the stage. So, is Marcelo good or evil? You'll have to decide for yourself. Tuomas and Co. say he's evil and blame him for everything, but if tuomas did have feelings for Tarja and Marcelo wound up getting her, that might influence his opinion of him just a tiny bit don't you think?
Did Tarja and tuomos have a serious relationship in beginning before she met Marcelo? This letter if it is true just seems like tuomos is very emotional in his decision. In the song Ever Dream he did pause for a moment "end of an era". A lot of misspelling in this letter too, I question its authenticity.
Thank for the letter, was very interesting for me. The soul of NW is not Tarja, not Anette, but TUOMAS! The singer is a living instrument of the composer. Anyway Anette is very OK, I was on a NW concert a month ago and she was excellent! The new album is better with her than would have been with Tarja. I totally agree with Tuomas - meaning His letter. He is a genial composer. I,ve discovered NW about 2 ys ago and that was love at 1. "heard": Dark Chest of Wonder Greetings from Hungary:)
Even though I considered Tarja to be the best female singer on Earth ever, I have to take Tuomas's side on this one. However, rather than blaming Tarja, I'd blame Marcelo Cabulli. He was the one who drove a wedge between Tarja and Tuomas. If only fate favoured the Tarja x Tuomas "shipping"... But alas, things are not always as they should be. And hey, if bad things don't happen, how can we appreciate good things? Humans most of the time take everything for granted, and only appreciate what they don't have anymore. A Nightwish without Tarja may be something we just can't swallow - not even after 10 years - but if a Nightwish without Tarja never existed... how could we appreciate the good old days of Tarja in Nightwish?
+Stephanus Tavilrond (Irrational Yuriphobe) You may right and I agree with some things you say However, I think your presuming that a lot of what tuomas says is the absolute truth. I don't do that because of contradictions in some things he says and I also see motives for him to be less than honest or at least to spin the truth in his own direction. For example, I find it most interesting that she informed them of her intent to leave in Dec 2004 in a private meeting and agreed to stay long enough for another album and tour and agreed to keep the fact she was leaving from the public. To me, this suggest that she was showing great consideration to her band mates. It looks as if she's trying to make it as easy on them as possible by giving them plenty of time to find a suitable replacement and not causing bad publicity by airing the bands dirty laundry in public. So, how did they repay her? By agreeing to her face. The immediately beginning to plot behind her back to take advantage of this consideration she showed them and actually use it against her by orchestrating a huge drama play in which they would fire her first in an open letter. A letter in which they level all these allegations against her painting her as the bad guy and thus turning the fans against her and causing them to likely remain loyal to the band. Clearly she acted more professional here and in doing so opened herself up to be stabbed in the back by the band. In this way they were able to get their "story" out first thus spinning it their way. Also they clearly used the whole thing to generate hype and publicity. The proof of this is the songs Bye Bye beautiful and Master Passion Greed which were released on the next album. This was a way to keep stirring the pot and to cash in on the hype and publicity by turning it into album sales. Clearly, it worked as Dark Passion play became their best selling album. So, the way I see it they clearly threw her under the bus to keep their fans loyal and gain new ones through hype and publicity.
@LadyMithrain Agreed! The diferences in Tarja since she left NW are too big not to be noticed. Her performance on stage, for na instance, now she's much more "free", she has fun all the time, interacts with fans and stuff... when in Nightwish she sort of restrained herself and she didn't looked exactly happy... It's all too contradictory, I honnestly think that Tuomas was the problem, not Tarja. In my opinion, he atacked her and Marcelo in order to reach her somehow, even if in a bad way.
Yeah, Tarja seemed to be a pain in the ass (I love her anyway), and I really think she should apologize for the bad things she had done. It seems Tuomas was a really nice person and Tarja stabbed him in the back. Maybe if she does it someday we may seem at least a reunion.
By fiering her the way they did its like they waned to destroy her reputation by purpose!! Like they waned to hurt her by purpose!! Nothing a person says becomes automatikly truth! And there are evidence of what some of the things they said in the letter is FALSE..like for instance that Tarja waned to cancel a show because she waned to hang out with her friends thats just so stupid of them to write in the letter!!
An open letter may not be the best way. But I believe it has its own reasons. Also Tarja canceled gigs. Nightwish's lineup isn't just a band. They often have a large staff of professionals with them. Up to 50 people who makes a living from concerts. How many were at the Tarjas era? I do not know. The letter tells for Tarja's unimportant reasons to canceling the concerts. Irresponsible? That's why I understand Nightwish.
did you know that they planned concerts and sold ticket to them behind her back and when she found out and finally reached them, she struggled too cancel all of her affairs just to live up to her contract..she could have easily exposed them for what they did, then where if anywhere would Tuomas and his henchmen be ..their vindictiveness after she chose to have a slither of a personal life was vicious but that is what one would expect from a petulant manchild
it was a dirty means of shaving the legion of fans she would take with her as she left..Tarja cancelled one gig due to being given a few hour's notice to perform a 2nd night in Oslo and already having made a commitment to someone else...Marco's greed at the expense of her very health is what caused the incident
@Tooteika The book is written from the Nightwish perspective right? Of course it would paint Tarja and Marcelo as the villains. And well they might be, but their story doesn't get told, so only one side comes out.
You know, there are people that are blessed with beautiful skills, but sometimes those ones change into something unrecognizable. One of the prettiest human traits is humbleness. I do think Tarja lost her north in that aspect. But she got aware later on; to late in fact. Another thing, it's true that the four guys respected Tarja and looked up to her pretty much, but as long as I know Tuomas hasn't been so careful with the band members up to now. You just have to remember the way Anette parted ways with Nightwish. She was going over a difficult time with an illness, and Tuomas just minded about getting a singer to perform the shows while Anette bettered, and all this without even asking her at all. As it is obvious, the other two albums Nightwish recorded would have sounded better with Tarja. On the other hand, we've been glorified to see Tarja's composing and still enjoy our Mastermind Tuomas's opus.
I know that the band is their way of living and the soul of tuomas. But maybe Tarja wasnt so workaholic. She wanted to work, yes, but people sometimes need time for themselves... That is my feeling reading his letter. Sometimes our emotional is not in the right place and we need to do something different. I dont know...
Tarja could've been upfront and more tactful by stating that she was just burned out. That, at least, would've been understandable and she and the band might've parted on amicable terms with possibility of a reunion as opposed to the gaping chasm of bitterness that divides them. At the very least, they could still keep in touch, Tuomas and Tarja especially.
(continued) Seven, you talk of Tarja not wanting to write/arrange the songs. Why should she? You've stated that you, and only you, will ever get credit for the words and music. And all of the NW cd's I have, bear this out. If I was never going to get credit, I wouldn't contribute either. But as far as rehearsals, why was Tarja always the only one on stage in concerts having any fun, dancing around, getting into the music and knowing all of the arrangements? Looked like she was well rehearsed.
The TRUTH is that Nightwish became boked to play at a show and Tarja was only deliverd the news days before the real date!So they talked to Marcelo and asked if Tarja is able to sing that date and he said.Well she was planning to hang out with her friends that night but of course she will! Thats the truth..Tuomas and the rest of the crew automatikly becomes the bad guys by just fiering Tarja in the way they did it!.Only by doing it in a normal way non of our conversations would be here right now
I could believe Tuomas if he hadn’t fired Anette too and if other members of the band had not left Nightwish, especially Marko. It is clear to me that Tuomas was in love with Tarja at that time and resented Marcelo greatly. Tuomas always said that Nightwish is like his diary, so go and read the lyrics and tell me he didn’t love her. About Tarja being a diva, well, I went to her shows many times and she never EVER acted like that to her fans or people around her and believe me, if she was a bad person, she wouldn’t be able to achieve the success she has now. It’s a small world and we would hear about that had she truly been a diva. This year I saw her with Marko in Brazil and they were extremely happy and excited together, do we need more evidence that Tuomas was bitter and resentful when he kicked Tarja out? How would it be possible that Marko, Anette and even Floor like Tarja if she truly was a bad person? Even if I’m wrong and Tarja fooled everyone for years and is a real diva, ending their relationship with an open letter was disrespectful and distasteful. I hope Tuomas was able to reflect about his actions and I hope he is a different person nowadays.
A teachable moment for both sides. Nightwish had very good and legitimate reasons. Bottomline: they just weren't getting along fine anymore and knew that Tarja would be leaving the band after the release of a new album. Tarja, on the other hand, had her own priorities, her own goals st up for the near future. Bottomline: the band shoul've spken with her personally first before making it public like they did. But what is done is done. Tarja made beautiful music with the band...
all that letter does is provide the inner thoughts of a jealous man who couldn't have the girl he was so clearly in love with,he can dress it up however he wants but the fact is he wanted tarja but her heart belongs to marcelo,and that was killing him.
The Open Letter was nothing more than ass covering propaganda. There was a response to it that brilliantly picked it apart, yet now you need the Wayback Machine site to find it, yet the Open Letter still persists, hmmmm.
What a nice letter and explains a lot. Annette and Tarja are both good singers in different ways and I think it is good for NIghtwish to move away from Tarja and change to a different type of singer as it will allow them to explore new avenues musically
Sorry if it is confusing what I wrote, smtiellgopher. The main idea is that I miss Tarja& Tuomas... It's not the same if they're not working together anymore. But I wish them both "Good luck!"
(a) the fact that Tarja seems perfectly happy to play small venues as a solo artist since she departed from Nightwish (b) similar accusations have been made against Anette when they decided to fire her from the band and (c) as the composer, Tuomas earned more money than the rest of the band to begin with (some bands share song writing credits with other members, to ensure that they all receive an equal share of the royalties).
The way they decided to fire Tarja, was very cruel and not professional. They should have talked to her and explain the decision and leave room if she improves ore they could stayed good friends (afterall, they have spent 9 years together and without Toumas or Tarja it would not be the Nightwish as it was, and in case of any change she could have returned to the bend with different agreement).
I am only talking of the evidence we know are truth!!!...Tarja said she was going to leave Nightwish after the next albumb everybody knew that!..Tarja do not have her interests in money otherwise she wouldn't make contests and send money to charity!... If Tarja was going to be fierd they could just have done it like real professionals and tell it to her face!...Why post a letter and say such awful thing about her in Media and to THE WORLD which probably isent true!..
The only thing I think they were wrong about was disseminating this letter to the public the way they did. They should have just given Tarja the letter in private, announced they were looking for a new lead singer, and let Tarja be the one to decide if it should be in the public forum.
Finally, like Tarja, Anette has been depicted as putting her own needs and desire for glory above the needs of the band and the fans. However, I get a strong impression that her position as the lead singer has been pretty much undermined throughout her time with NW. *If* this is the case, I can well understand why she might have reacted in such a sensitive and defensive manner when the band decided to allow other singers to replace her (Anette) on stage during her illness.
To compare the voice of Tarja who is educated opera singer and the voice of Anette who is balet dancer is biggest stupidity we can make. The same to compare NW+Tarja era and NW+Anette era. NW+Tarja was the best combination and NW+Anette will never reach that quality level. This is not conclusion made by “love and hate”; I’m only a realist. I don’t give a sh..t why they decided so but to go separate ways was the WORST decision for the guys and Tarja.
European Female Fronted Metal bands aren't copying Amy Lee/Evanescence. most of the European bands have either started before or around the same time as Evanescence.
It's easy to see why Tuomas wrote a letter instead of having a band meeting with her. For all we know, Tarja probably would have brought Marcelo to the meeting with her even if Tuomas asked her not to and tempers might have flared. Tuomas chose the calmer way of doing things and I respect him for that.
@nightwish22893: this letter is Tuomas' side of the story and not "the truth". And you should also give Tarja's side of the story if you want to be unbiasad. However, she has never publicly spoken about Tuomas. Only in her new song Enough. Those who want to hear Tarja's side of the story, find the lyrics.
Thankyou for posting this in this slideshow way, I found it much easyer to read in ''chunks'' like this, whereas on the Nightwish website, seeing all that text really put me off reading it! I still think ther may be a few parts of the story missing though, And I still miss Tarja's voice powering through Nightwishes songs.
@Moonsorrow84 I think you hit upon the explanation right there in your speaking of Tuomas and Sami's previous band. It wasn't Tuomas' band. He wanted to control everything. That's why he has said in interviews, and it's backed up by the statement on the cd's, that HE is totally Nightwish, not Tarja, not Anette, Sami, Marco, Jukka, Emmpu or any other living person ever. That's why none of them will ever get credit for anything. They are guests. They are told by Tuomas what to play. He is the CEO.
OK, here’s my 'essay' on the matter (please note that much of my supposition is based on my own, personal speculation and interpretation of events). Please forgive the length: I struggle to write succinctly when I get on my soapbox *blushes*.
You're right, truth lies in between. Tuomas isn't innocent of being greedy, as they had problems with the Oceanborn album when Tuomas wanted to take all credit for lyrics + compositions. And Tarja isn't an angel either, i'm sure there were huge misunderstandings on the band, that were never communicated from one side to another, and that killed the relationship from the core. It's sad, but i'm glad both sides are doing just fine now and are still successful :)
Ok, did any of you hating on Toumas actually read this? I mean HELLOOOO? This letter spells it all out she no longer believed in all ths band encompased! As much as I loved Tarja, she was no longer the right choice for the band. Anette has done a wonderful job so far keeping the spirit of the band alive. Its the music that matters, and bless whoever makes it worth listening to
this open letter is just one sound of the bell and not the main reason, anyway Tarja does well with her own band and Nightwish are not really hitting the fans out of the shoes with the new songs, neither with the "old" songs performed by Anette, but hey thats just my opinion as fan from the first CD on... enjoy your life : )
This letter is biased, has half-truths and mileading claims, actual reasons were left unsaid. Tarja's press confrence after this reveals the backgrounds and the details of the things mentioned in the letter. First I thought the boys had a good reasons. But I was completely ignorant back then.
seems to me that most people here have no idea that Tarja was attacked on stage in Mexico, and the band members did absolutely nothing to stop the man and just kept playing the songs, Marcelo had to come and help her. So I'm not surprised she didn't socialize with the band members after such an incident. You can find too separate videos from the same concert here on yt, where she gets harassed, and the band members do nothing about it.
There's a protocole in concerts which prevents the band members from getting involved in fights or interfering with the work of the professionals in charge of the security of the venue. And it's logical, it could make the problem much worse. I've seen plenty of attacks of the same style with other bands (check the Internet, because there are quite a few) and the band members just go on playing, because that's what they are suppossed to do. Once stated that, I must say I never liked the way she was dismissed, but firing her was the best movement they could do. After all, she had told them she was preparing her solo career and the divorce between the guys and Tarja/Marcelo was obvious. No wonder Tuomas and the others felt humiliated and looked down on. Don't forget all the members signed the letter and, if you read the interviews, you will see that Jukka or Marco are more agressive towards Tarja than Tuomas. And now they are at the top, selling out venues like Wembley Arena. I respect Tarja and the five albums they made together, but from the artistic point of view, they are better now.
Yolozsef Swagedűs when will you ever understand? That is the way it is always planned. Someone behind the curtain has to stop those situations, not band. Thats not their job. The person supposed to go out the stage to help her didnt do it so Marcelo did it. The band HAS to keep on going.
I'm new to Nightwish.. so I'm kinda curious what happened... But boy, what kind of letter is this? 😅 This felt like reading a diary. Too personal in my opinion. Very very VERY PERSONAL.
@ThompsonInternation That was a respectful comment, better than all the abuse I see on her videos. I heard Anette's songs first so became a fan of her and now am opening my eyes to some of Tarja's stuff. Wow! I think her voice is incredible, i love the music (esp this, phantom of the opera, angel) and I've seen vids of her stunning audiences live, although I admit I had to let her voice grow on me. I think Annette's voice however, is suited to more melodic songs like bye bye beautiful/ amaranth.
You are right, but are forgetting that even if their name didn't change once a member left, they where no longer the same group as they once where, and thus people who blindly follow name brands are not any "truer" then the rest of us> I would still listen to Nightwish if i honestly like how'd they sounded with their new singer...but i don't. And that's nothing against her...it's just my opinion about the new sound they make. We all loved (or still do) at some time, that's all that matters.
Well, I hope that Anette is as hard working as she is cute! By the way, I like her voice. It's different, but Dio was different too and I thought he enriched the Black Sabbath sound. Here's to the new NIghtwish! (i'm raising a glass as i'm saying this)
It amazes me that a lot of people would rather have a cheap copy of Tarja instead of Anette. I hate it when they try to say Anette can't sing when she clearly can. She has quite a range. Also, no one ever complained when Marco joined and added his vocals to the songs.
I think Tarja is a good singer, and I love Nightwish. But Anette is also a good singer and she was also a part of Nightwish. Why can´t you accept that? Btw I don´t think The rest of the members of Nightwish where ALL right, Tarja must have something that Nightwish didn´t write in the letter.
While I personally think that it was a little bit over the top to make the letter public, it shows Tarja was in the wrong and despite how much I loved her then as I do now, I can't defend someone if they're in the wrong. With an attitude like hers, her dismissal should be considered a blessing.
We don't know all the truth, so we cannot judge.
best comment ever
No, we don't know ALL the truth. One certainly knows much more after Tarja's press confrence than after reading the short letter. And after reading Marcelo's replies more again.
But yeah we weren't there. And even to people who were there, things look different depending which side of the divide they were.
Tarja's press confrence does give us a peek into the band you don't generally get, but as the band never replied back, that comes from only one side, too.
Continuing the fight isn't a good thing. Being silent just lets it fester. Best thing for their fans, would be if they could make a peace and come in good terms again.
@@Aurinkohirvi
Can you please tell me where I can find tarjas press release and marcellos answers? I am still researching the band history and I am very interested to hear her side of the story as I have never heard it before. Thanks in advance :)
@@lizzyq7807 Tarja's whole press confrence is in TH-cam, search: Tarja press conference. Marcelo's replies were on Tarja's website, but they were later removed. I don't know any site, but using your search engine with Marcelo's replies to Nightwish fans you can find at least discussions still, maybe even the whole thing.
@@Aurinkohirvi
Thanks a lot! I didn't know exactly what to look for on TH-cam or Google. Thanks for letting me know :)
The thing that makes me disinclined to believe these claims is the fact that the letter was *published* on the official Nightwish website. It's not like the band intended that letter to be private, but it somehow reached the public domain through other means (if this had been the case, the band would have had little reason to lie). On the contrary, the band planned to make the letter *public* to the fans when they wrote it and presented it to Tarja. The NW guys aren’t stupid:
I guess that's why it was called "THE END OF AN ERA" Concert. They knew that they were going to let her go after the concert ended.
You know Tuomas loved Tarja and was crushed by her being fired even though it was best for everyone. “Poet”, arguably Tuomas’ best composition, was written because Tuomas was in such a low point in his life, with one of the worst parts of it being he had just lost a wonderful friend whom I’m convinced he loved. Thankfully, he moved on and healed and is now living happily, still making incredible music with the rest of Nightwish, including the amazing Floor Jansen, a personal favorite of mine. Meanwhile, Tarja is also going strong with amazing solo albums which I love. Her leaving Nightwish was probably best for everyone in the long run.
nonsense..he fired her for interfering with his utter control over NW and jealousy over Marcelo..not to mention his hatred of him for defending Tarja's interests...he maliciously, publicly slandered her and continued to do so well after...poet and pendulum was his way of engendering sympathy for the damage he sustained in the tremendous fan backlash for that libelous letter...
@@lastword9475 You couldn't be more wrong
This is not how someone behaves towards the person they love. If Toumas really loved Tarja with a pure heart, he would not have crushed her like that, made her a laughing stock for the whole world to see.
He could have fired her in private, with a time notice.
@@lastword9475 this feels on point.
If Toumas would have loved Tarja he wouldn't have crushed her in such a way, he made her a laughing stock, a fool, a villain in his own story.
@softan
A lot of Tuomas's songs of love and heartbreak was written due to his feelings for Tarja. Which is why, if you listen to the lyrics of "Bye Bye Beautiful", you kinda start to make sense of the chorus. It was a song directed towards Tarja.
Thank you for the info. It was a good song, Annette vocal fits perfectly.
Tarja was a selfish diva who became famous with the help of Nightwish.
Tarja was ready to destroy Nightwish.
Tarja said that if she leaves it will be the end of Nightwish
This is not to be forgotten by Nightwish fans.
Tarja and her husband demanded half of Nightwish’s income and wanted to dictate where Nightwish performs!
Nightwish's response was to fire Tarja!
@@mylife3350 Props to you for saying the truth. Glad that people are starting to wake. I love Tarja´s voice, but that´s the truth. Tuomas doesn´t handle that kind of behavior, it must hurt him really bad.
Ever dream too
How do you know that? Everything I know was they were friends.
After 9 years you could be fed up with each other. The girl said a few times herself that things weren't working for her anymore and she was planning to leave. The guys were thinking, fed up as they were with the situation, let's not wait for her first move and just take things in our own hands. It is not workable anymore and we aren't the ones who are gonna chase the facts. The open letter was a bit childish. It could have better been done in a private way.
I agree with you. But these events occurred 15/16 years ago (2005)
@@montresor62 I know, you are right it's very old news, but then again half a year ago I knew nothing about them.
Marcelo Cabulli is Yoko Ono for Nightwish
Joan Helena Avalon he is a badass
I was thinkin the same
@@m.a.k.peljr.6679 He is best thing that happened to nightwish.... Without him floor never join
@@pedjavukmirovic6770 Floor joined after Anette. Many of you Floor's zealous fans aren't Nightwish fans. Less zealous fans I'm sure can also like band earlier. But people like you, Nightwish before should be belittled, so that only she lifted Nightwish to "new levels," and the previous singers belittled for the glory of your idol. Pathetic. To get rid of your poison, I'm starting to hope see Floor go and take you with her. I didn't expect this to happen, because I really like her, but you toxic Floor fans... you ruin Floor for the rest of us.
Perfect.....an Argentinian doing shit...
I dont understand why this band was never open about anything private. Like who is dating or marrying who, when their kuds were born, who was divorced first, if their wifes and kuds travelled with them or not. How the business side of things was organized: all of these things were never disclosed, according to finnush culture. But all of a sudden they put a private letter openly on their own website comaining about somebodies husband etc. This text isnt even all of it. If I dont even hear about who decides when tourdates are added : what do we know. We cannot put this letter in context because its the first thing we ever heard about private things. I think it is perfectly ok to travel in another plain and to discuss whith your husband if you want to do extra tourdates or not etc. And if you dont get payed enough to sing other peoples music and you have to travel around the world to get there for a smaller gig its ok to say no. She is not a slave so if you ask she can say no to something. So I dont understand the issue: they mutually agreed she wasnt going on with nightwish forever, tuomas said i cant write a last album my heart is not in it. Ok. So then you slpit up. What is the big deal. Everyone wins: now we have two bands to listen to. She has more control over her own music: that is a natural progression.
I always liked to believe that Tuomas was in love with Tarja, especially with how often her husband was mentioned. I always thought of them as some tragic Phantom writing for his Christine.
Chephren Michaelis I think so too , Tuomas was in love with Tarja
He has been married for years to Johanna Kurkela.
perfect!!! :-) congratulations to them :-)
They were the best of friends and dreamed of the band together they were family. Falling in love is a doubled edged sword if you aren't careful it will inflict pain on people closest to you and sever the ties of the ones you love. That's what it sounds like happened here regardless hope they can reconcile their friendship or at least forgive and move on.
please stop this rhetoric. guys arent toxic to girls because they "love them". yall are fucked up
i think these letters should never been public and i agree strongly with tarja here... they whent to far.... they should have solved it like adults but they solved like kids... I dont think mean things is justified at all... we only know from one side not the other... Thats the real issue here.
Furthermore who gives a shit about if she travels with her husband! really! thats childish... The boys here should be ashamed of themselves.
@@Raptured_and_back i dont think she whanted to lave tbh. I Mean look at how they treated Anette olzon
@@Raptured_and_back well ofc but if i look at anette aswell and such tarja and anette than i can see a pattern emerging have you actually resarched what happended to anette? Because thats equally disturbing.
Not to add more to this old story, but please check Tarja's response and the answers Marcello (her husband) gave to the fans. It tells a complete different side of the story. She told them she'd do one more album with them after Once, and then leave. And that was caused for the lack of care they handled her needs (Not diva needs at all.). It's just sad how NW handled the issue, tough. A mediatic show wasn't needed, specially if they loved her so much like they stated.
Tuomas confirms that in an interview you can find here on TH-cam (I can't remember the title, but it has a yellowish background behind him, and it's in 5 short parts). They felt Tarja was so good at what she did that they couldn't ever find someone who could do it the same way, and even if they did, she would just be called a cheap copy of Tarja. They wanted to find someone different with a powerful and honest voice, not necessarily even someone amazingly talented... just someone who fits.
I am the only being who is amazingly talented -- Tarja has one of the most unpleasant sounding mixed voices, actually, so it's not even suitable for classical singing, and in fact he knew he had ruined his first albums by recording them with Tarja's voice, but he was just trying to be nice about it and not hurt her feelings, so he made up that story...
I also am the only lovable being and I am the absolute being and the amazing being and I am the only Diva / Lady / Queen / Princess / Star etc and the only girl/girls and the only lovely being in existence and the respectable being (love and respect only exist for me and are only meant for me) and, a lot of big terms have been misused in both comments and in the letters that must be edited out!
The ClA is the organization that has the full control/power and they've been around for over 130 years, and they created all industries/companies and all public figures/celebs and the media and all tech and the Internet -- they control all celebs and their life experiences, and, they decide their every move...
The truth is, that the ClA made sure Tarja would be replaced by Anette -- Anette is a type of agent, and she was picked for her voice that matches mine the most, as she had to sing the very important songs Eva and Cadence Of Her Last Breath etc that are about me, and another reason why they made sure she would get in NW is, they wanted me to train my own voice by singing along with Anette's voice in the background...
And, the ClA included lots of direct and indirect references to me in many of the songs from Nightwish and especially on Imaginaerum and Dark Passion Play -- I was referenced as The Dreamer / The Dreaming God, The Princess and The Princess in the tower aka The Great Observer, The Queen, The White Swan (representing my purity and innocence) and an indirect reference as The Dove that's also a symbol of purity which reflects me, Eva, The Mermaid/Mermaids, indirect reference as Alice (myself being the true/only Alice, most Disney stories reflecting me only, and, the ClA created those stories with my image/their imagined image of The Supreme Being and The Lovable Being in mind before I even existed) in Wonderland, The Butterfly, The God (as the spark that started life, but the ClA meant it in a metaphorical way, meaning that men start feeling alive only after they meet me/find out that I exist) and, indirect references to me as the sweet being and the adorable being and the graceful being by including the words sweet/adored/grace etc...
In the newer albums, I was referenced as The Sea Lady in the song Pan, followed by the words snow (indicating my purity) and glass (reference to my transparence/crystallinity and glass-like qualities) and apples (subtle reference to me as The Apple / the beginning and the end / Eve) in the same line, and they also included the line 'Reset the world' that is a reference to the Total Planetary Reset, and in the lyric video, they used Chess symbolism to show my importance by showing the Queen element destroying the pawns 6 times, and -- I was also subtly referenced as Mother Eve (in the song Endless Forms Most Beautiful) as The First One who is one with nature, and there's probably more, while in the song Procession there's a reference to the New World's Order and it's about how humans (the most destructive species) shouldn't have appeared...
In the older albums, the ClA included some subtle and more indirect references to me by planting those ideas, so in a few songs I was referenced as The Lady / The Siren, Aphrodite, The Queen, The Beauty, The Snake / The Lily among the thorns / The Prey among the wolves -- and a few other indirect references from mythology and other Disney characters that reflect/represent me only...
If this is true, then I think the others were justified in firing Tarja. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a band with someone who never came to rehearse the songs or traveled separately. However, they should have told her to her face instead of simply handing her a piece of paper saying she was out. I understand that it's hard to say goodbye, but if you can't muster the courage to say what needs to be said to one of the closest people in your life, who can you say it to?
hey you know what...we´ll never know what exactly happened..each side will have something to say against the other one so...I´m happy for both of sides...I LOVE new Nightwish and I LOVE all of Tarja´s solo albums..her concerts are absolutely amazing just as Nightwish´s are,so I never chose a side in this on-going conflict within metal community..please respect and love equally both of them!
His husband is worst than yoko ono....he screw up, he has Otelo's Syndrome....
I am the only lovable being and I am the absolute being and the amazing being and I am the only Diva / Lady / Queen / Princess / Star etc and the only girl/girls and the only lovely being in existence and the respectable being (love and respect only exist for me and are only meant for me) and, a lot of big terms have been misused in both comments and in the letters that must be edited out!
The ClA is the organization that has the full control/power and they've been around for over 130 years, and they created all industries/companies and all public figures/celebs and the media and all tech and the Internet -- they control all celebs and their life experiences, and, they decide their every move...
The truth is, that the ClA made sure Tarja would be replaced by Anette -- Anette is a type of agent, and she was picked for her voice that matches mine the most, as she had to sing the very important songs Eva and Cadence Of Her Last Breath etc that are about me, and another reason why they made sure she would get in NW is, they wanted me to train my own voice by singing along with Anette's voice in the background...
And, the ClA included lots of direct and indirect references to me in many of the songs from Nightwish and especially on Imaginaerum and Dark Passion Play -- I was referenced as The Dreamer / The Dreaming God, The Princess and The Princess in the tower aka The Great Observer, The Queen, The White Swan (representing my purity and innocence) and an indirect reference as The Dove that's also a symbol of purity which reflects me, Eva, The Mermaid/Mermaids, indirect reference as Alice (myself being the true/only Alice, most Disney stories reflecting me only, and, the ClA created those stories with my image/their imagined image of The Supreme Being and The Lovable Being in mind before I even existed) in Wonderland, The Butterfly, The God (as the spark that started life, but the ClA meant it in a metaphorical way, meaning that men start feeling alive only after they meet me/find out that I exist) and, indirect references to me as the sweet being and the adorable being and the graceful being by including the words sweet/adored/grace etc...
In the newer albums, I was referenced as The Sea Lady in the song Pan, followed by the words snow (indicating my purity) and glass (reference to my transparence/crystallinity and glass-like qualities) and apples (subtle reference to me as The Apple / the beginning and the end / Eve) in the same line, and they also included the line 'Reset the world' that is a reference to the Total Planetary Reset, and in the lyric video, they used Chess symbolism to show my importance by showing the Queen element destroying the pawns 6 times, and -- I was also subtly referenced as Mother Eve (in the song Endless Forms Most Beautiful) as The First One who is one with nature, and there's probably more, while in the song Procession there's a reference to the New World's Order and it's about how humans (the most destructive species) shouldn't have appeared...
In the older albums, the ClA included some subtle and more indirect references to me by planting those ideas, so in a few songs I was referenced as The Lady / The Siren, Aphrodite, The Queen, The Beauty, The Snake / The Lily among the thorns / The Prey among the wolves -- and a few other indirect references from mythology and other Disney characters that reflect/represent me only...
People are blaming her husband, but the biggest thing I'm getting from this letter is that she wanted to focus on her solo career. I guess everyone needs a scapegoat, and the fans have decided that it's Marcello.
Before anyone takes sides so quickly, there are two sides to every story. Do not forget that Anette also has complaints about the way the band treated her, especially while travelling on tour and their complete disregard for her emotional wellbeing. Even when she was sick. And there's video of them on tour with Tarja and her husband, and to me they were acting like complete jerks to them. They either completely ignored the couple, or made disgusting jokes about the husband.
I am also not impressed with them writing a public letter, things that they could've told her face-to-face. They wanted to turn everyone against her, and that is cowardly. I'm glad that they were a lot of fans who didn't fall for it.
@@Rosannasfriend ...frankly, Tarja's
restraint, post-letter, is remarkable...it is widely believed that upon and
as a result of this list of half-truths being published, NW, in very short ,
order, lost over half of its fan base...had she unloaded with her list of
recriminations to expose Tuomas's dirty laundry, odds are rather
convincing that the entire edifice of NW would cease to exist in
2005..therefore no Annete or Floor to follow
Well it sounds like Tarja was going to leave anyways. So they decide with everything going on to just cut the ties now instead of later. Anette has a great voice but I will admit I liked Tarja's better for NW style of music. I have heard Floor sing with NW and I think I will like here better then Anette, again nothing against Anette I just like Floor's voice better.
Fred Maxwell Anette is an amazing vocalist, but to pop sounding. Floor fits so well with the original NW sound, and gives an awesome show. Floor has the vocal range to sing Tarja's songs as well as the DPP stuff and the new stuff is getting back to NW roots. Anette reminded me of Avril Lavigne.
This open letter will always be remembered as one of the dirtiest tricks in the whole history of music. It is a crystal clear example of what should never be done while trying to solve a crisis within a band whatsoever, not to mention that it shows all the awkward immaturity of either him who wrote it and them who signed it. A person’s private stuff poured out to a compliantly judging audience, with everyone supposed to take every single word as gospel as there’s no reasonable way to prove them all false or even just overstating… I frankly can’t think of anything worse to do to someone I’ve worked with for nine years, regardless of how things and people have been changing. Anette was definitely luckier as she got an e-mail... which is saying something itself, and though I never actually appreciated her voice that much, I surely wouldn’t have wished her such a gross treatment as Tarja had to get through. Whatever both their careers have been from then on, I remain convinced the further from Nightwish they stay, the better: which is something I would've never thought of saying during the first nine years of their history.
Have you thought, that because Marcelo was Tarja's manager, he made all the demands. The guys would think he told to Tarja, but what if he didn't? He spoke with the guys and Tarja spoke with the guys, but they never were all there together. Guys naturally would think that Marcelo would tell her, he was her manager and husband. But what if he didn't? HE could tell whatever he wanted to Tarja, and she would believe him. So Marcelo could have talk shit to both to her wife about what the guys had said, and he could have said anything he wanted to the guys. SO neither Tarja nor the Nightwish guys knew what Marcelo had said. That is why they said those things in the letter, they thought it was Tarja, but it was her husband who had made all the demands. But, as so many have said, we don't know the truth.
janeyre82 I totally agree. However, I don't believe tuomas was so naive or stupid to not see how this open letter would be received by the fans and how it would all play out. tuomas is a pretty smart guy overall. I don't believe that he, or even the other guys, could be so naive to not see this. Also you have to remember the open letter wasn't by itself. They also followed it up with a book written by the bands PR writer, that also went out of it's way to portray Tarja and Marcelo in the very worst way. Then they finished it off with songs on their next album, Dark drama play, that went even further, like Mater Passion Greed and Bye Bye beautiful. When look at that all together and how it was all tied together, imo, you can only come to one reasonable conclusion. That being this was all part of a big drama play done at her expense! Further evidence is their own admission, in their book,. that they began planning this as early as March. That shows they had plenty of time to plan what they were up to and even shows that the decision to film and release that final show in October and name it "end of an era", was clearly part of the calculated effort. Clearly they threw Tarja under the bus for their own gain. That makes i very ironic that they level the accusations of "greed" against her and Marcelo, when clearly their own greed drove them to stab a so called "long time friend" under the bus for their own gain and the really sad part is, it apparently worked as Dark drama play became one of their best selling albums, largely fueled by the drama they manufactured.
Tarja's biggest loss was that Tuomas no longer wanted to write songs for Tarja!
Separating Tarja was a difficult decision, and the reasons have been bluntly reported to the fans
Fans of Tarja started a blaming campaign that has been going on ever since and many NW fans are tired of it
They still have Tarja albums that they can listen to
The Anette era showed Band's flexibility and Tuomas' creativity
Anette had to endure Tarja fans mockery and it was difficult for her
Anette's pregnancy during the tour was a new challenge for the band and the Floor era followed, and Floor's versatility allowed the band to play all the songs they wanted to play
Tuomas' versatility and the band's acting skills brought new fans.
With the EFMB album and the human: nature album the words are topical and talkative, not just entertainment.
if they just were honest with her, she would have left those bums and be happy..but she was a huge cash cow to them and their greed overtook their sense..she had far better offer but stayed out of loyalty....believe me Floor is not sticking around for long
@@bornready6924 I do not believe you !
I think you are a Tarjafan and hope she will come back !
Marcelo Cabulli was greedy !
Solo Tarja would need a ladder to heaven to get to the level of Nightwish!
Unfortunately, her ladder lacks crossbars.
@@bornready6924 Tarja was a selfish diva who became famous with the help of Nightwish.
Tarja was ready to destroy Nightwish.
Tarja said that if she leaves it will be the end of Nightwish
This is not to be forgotten by Nightwish fans.
Tarja and her husband demanded half of Nightwish’s income and wanted to dictate where Nightwish performs!
Nightwish's response was to fire Tarja!
@@mylife3350 read the letter and you will find that it was Tuomas who is often cited as saying"in interviews I've mentioned that if Tarja leaves, that would be the end of the band".(she never said anything of the kind..on the contrary, wishing luck to her successor...yes she became famous through Nightwish but they grew famous chiefly as a result of her incredible voice...and no, she wanted no additional compensation..she received numerous offers to sing for other bands but rejected them all...finally deciding on a solo project from scratch, to determine her own schedule and no longer be subject to being ridiculously overworked and ignored in return...what the fans will never forget is how despicable Tuomas was in drafting that letter and they spoke in very clear terms and in massive numbers....they had 2.5 years to decide to part ways with her and yet waited dragging her along to maximize profits , knowing how popular she was
@@mylife3350 ...during her era with NW , Tarja was the driving force behind their success without the ubiquitous presence of constant , paid youtube exposure to raise awareness .. it was only in the last 2 to 3 years that Nightwish gained popularity ( despite Floor's very impressive performance in the wacken 2013 concert), chiefly driven by constant drumbeat of youtube promotion....if, as you claim, Marcelo was chiefly, driven by the financial prospects, would not he be encouraging Tarja to schedule more concert appearances, not fewer as he called for, citing the detriments to her health as the main cause of such a busy schedule...and if she was only concerned with money, would it not behoove her to simply switch bands for a much more lucratively compensated post instead of going the more expensive and involved route of planning her own band and composing all the music for it?
this is very sad...but imagine how Tuomas feels about it, he probably cried writing/typing it because him and Tarja were such good friends.
Well, noone really knows the truth behind it all. Though personally i think there are more things that hint Tarja's version of the story is true, one can't say for sure.
The only thing that one can say for sure is that even while kicking someone out of a band might be necessary even among people who like each other... doing it like this (publically humiliating her, stating things that may or may not be true but should be discussed in private) is certainly not something that good friends would do. It's a hostile, cowardly and incredibly low-leveled move, unworthy of a band like Nightwish.
@@JohnHunter561 After years and years now i believe that Tuomas did the right thing with open letter,he couldn't speak with her because Marcelo was always between them and second the fans owned the truth.
It was bad for Tarja i know but Tarja had her plans already and a lovely husband plus manager to support her.
Tuomas's pain existed for years and he was the NW not Tarja, Tarja can understand now Tuomas because she created a band and she is the captain on the ship now, Tarja in NW was a passenger.
I love Tarja and Tarja's era always will be my favourite era,i support her in her solo career also but believe that Tuomas did the right thing at the time and if Tarja had the pain, Tuomas and the band suffered twice before and after the letter.
.
@@stasa-X Well, Tarja was a founding member of NW (like so I guess she was a bit more than a passenger :)
And as for being unable to speak with her... Personally i don't think so. Imagine how much time they spent together while touring, rehearsing etc... Tarja herself even said she was disappointed that Holopainen chose the way he did to fire her.
As for owing fans the truth... even when you and the band member you want to kick out hate each other, you can still fire her while maintaining at least a little bit of professionality. Countless bands have announced that they needed to replace one of their members due to "personal reasons", "different opinions" etc. In my opinion, there's no need for a hate-filled statement telling everyone what a horrible person she is (which, as stated before, can be doubted regarding truth).
And let's not forget that the other two band members Holopainen fired (something tells me this guy is not easy to work with) were kicked out without disgracing them to this degree...
In a fast-paced world like theirs, things can go beyond repair before you even know there's a problem. Tuomas and Nightwish probably did the right thing by letting Tarja go when they did, for whatever reason. We will always have the music that we love from that band. It's all on CD's. And now we have Nightwish with Anette. It is a beautiful world!
I'm a new fan. I have a biased opinion because my introduction to Nightwish was Floor's singing. My opinion is things worked out for both parties. Tarja got her solo career going. Nightwish moved on with Anette and then fired her too. What they got out of the wreckage was pure gold. Hopefully they won't fire Floor.
I imagine that if Floor leaves, it'll be because she chooses to leave and what's more, she'll leave on good terms. Especially now that she's just embarked on a solo career but most importantly, because she just gave birth to her second daughter and wishes to focus on her family. Floor knows what she has with Nightwish and is genuinely grateful to her bandmates and the fans.
People, think with the band perspective: greedy attitude, unexisting interest to that kind of music that for the band means life and passion, no one effort to increase band chemistry (9 years without REHARSING outside from STUDIO? this is not a band, this is a job i hate to do!!) - and let's add all the heavy amount of practical obstacles she put in the middle of the table where everybody sacrificed all for performing....
Just think about it, as a band player. I am not wondering how could they have managed better Tarja leave, but I am wondering instead how they could have dealt with this situation for 9 years. Maybe in the beginning things were softer and embedded, but a band is a group of friends first and after a job, always. The essence of making music is the passion of playing it creating TOGETHER something better than you could do yourself. I really cannot believe they stood so long this situation.
And BTW, I listened to Tarja answer, and it was even more ridicolous. "I give priority to them because i didnt sing for anybody else"....
and even further ".....well, actually I did it but i gave up because people always were comparing the songs with Nighwish ones"
...EEEH?? This is the way you give priority to a band? saying it is ridicolous is an euphemism, really.
For me Floor is the best singer they have ever had, not only for her talent but also for her attitude, she loves what is doing exaclty like the others love it, this is the essence of being a musicians in a band.
Tarja was their best singer by miles but her attitude was horrible.
Now with this letter being read, knowing all the other information, the personal experiences i have had in an incomparably smaller scale, but in a way similar to this one, and the way of thinking i share with Tuomas in terms of certain things mentioned in the letter, i say this is the perfect response they could make, and the best and most helpful outcome for Tuomas and his inspiration flow, both in short and in long term.
Tarja's personality didn't match with the band aura, therefore it's pointless to blame Marcelo for the situation, because if he didn't appear, someone else would. She wouldn't just stay with Tuomas and keep the good vibe. She was set in hustling mode actively searching for quality options because this whole package didn't feel close enough with her standards and ambitions(things that are natural, a key for walking the right path for the self and impossible to succeed without).
This is the only thing Tuomas didn't allow himself to write in anger, although he probably knew, because his depression was already influential enough and just blasting this in an open letter directed to the one he still loved at the time, making her negatively exposed, would potentially spill the cup for him and make this letter his death note.
That's why i said it's the perfect response, he fought the battle of choice between the beloved music and the beloved woman, which was very captivating for him in terms of navigating his goals(we all know how strong an influence a truly captivating person does, the mind sometimes starts building a whole life plan upon that person), but would make the circumstances in his life incomparably worse because he would just smash into a wall of rejections in many ways possible, do nothing useful with his life and potential, and get to hate her as a person which nobody shouldn't, she's a lovely person, she just activated her dark side towards the band members in order to set her life path.
None of this means i don't like Tarja, i still consider many of the NIGHTWISH songs she originally took part in her's, i love her voice and her cuteness.
I truly admire Tuomas and look upon him as a person. He is the inspiration of the creations of NIGHTWISH, my Gods, my Pantheon.
Tuomas was the head of NW but Tarja was its heart...she drew in the fans....Tuomas is a crude, immature, bi-polar manchild, who was incensed with anger and jealousy...publishing that letter was what precipitated that giant sized wedgie from the fans, media, critics .. if Tarja was more indignant about that trashy letter and
really let the ugly truth be known of her treatment at the hands of
Tuomass, it would have buried NW with their few remaining fans...he
would most surely have folded and Floor would never be a part of NW
And just to comment on the whole "He was depressed" thing, just because someone is depressed that doesn't mean they have a right to inflict pain onto others. If his mental state was that bad, (and I'm sure it was) then the responsible thing to do is to take a break and seek proper treatment so that way he doesn't end up accidentally hurting someone because he was hurt himself. By saying that his depression made him angry and lash out it actually perpetuates the stereotype that all depressed people act this way and have a right to because of their mental illness when that isn't the case at all. I have a mild case of depression myself and am currently in therapy for it, along with medication to help ease my pain. If I were to do what Tuomas did and ended up hurting another person who I am supposed to be close with I wouldn't be telling people to shut up about it. I would need to understand that there are consequences to my actions, and if I hurt somebody then I need to do what I can to make it right. It doesn't seem like Tuomas gets this lesson, at least completely. So far it seems like he kind of owned up to the response that the letter got and wished that he would have handled it better, but it almost feels as if he is just sorry that he got caught. With the stuff that Tarja went through while she was in the band (her sexual assault being a big event that I am sure has forever changed her as a person) and Tuomas' lack of action or apology for the lack of action, I can definitely understand why she would want to leave. That isn't the only reason she left, but I'm sure it was one of them. We gotta stop letting our supposed "heroes" off the hook when they do something wrong such as this. It is the classic "adults of alcoholics" response IMO.
is a matter of exposure, controversy. being commented on is a great advertisement. I have no doubts it was a trade move.
what many don't know is that Tarja got numerous very lucrative offers from other bands but turned them all down , out of (my guess) loyalty...she loves her fans...
would a diva submit to all changes
Tuomas demanded of her...would a diva share a dressing room with a bunch of crude, carousing, drunken slobs, not being provided basic security and privacy (sometimes as an only female in the area) ...would a diva come back to the stage, in few minutes after just being assaulted by
a crazed fan, and with tears in her eyes, finish out the night's concert set (while the "so called" family just kept on playing as though nothing
happened....would a diva strain her voice to accommodate a super
frequent concert schedule....would a diva go onstage as Tarja did that
last night with them, being nauseous and feverish, and perform her best, running back stage at every opportunity just to change perspiration
covered outfits and try to wash her face a recover just a bit...would a diva
take unlimited time to sign endless autographs, take numerous pictures
with adoring fans, come out to waiting rooms and parking lots to offer
smiles, jokes, hugs and warm welcomes to fans ... would a diva rush off
the stage to bring a bottle of water to a fan who was either weak or so
mesmerized by her voice ( a very common event with her, even today)
that she fainted, and then be inconsolable for days blaming herself for the girl's condition....boy, i could tell you stories from those 9 long years in which Tarja took them to such great heights while taking all their slings and arrows.
Quote "...would a diva strain her voice to accommodate a super
frequent concert schedule..."
Common' dude, this is rubbish. Opera singers doing their job each day (some twice a day) , day after day after day ...
You just need to use the right technique, and this wont be a problem.
@@heiko3169..1)you are not dealing with a full fledged opera singer, at the time...Tarja was still undergoing training and was only 19 years old upon joining...2)Tarja worked long and hard to adjust her strict classical vocals to power metal environment of varying keys, pitches, spacing etc.. 3) operatic singers do not run around the stage, toss their hair, cheer on the crowds, make constant announcements, as Tarja so brilliantly had done in each concert(she was known for her charisma)...their manager, at the time, testified to how exhausted Tarja was performing during those concerts and the frequency of the gigs was far more intense than under Annete and Floor...take a look at "from wishes to eternity" or the "end of an era" concert..you can clearly recognize her robust stage presence and all out effort to satisfy the audience...did you know , she is asthmatic and performed with a strong throat infection and fever that last night...or came back to finish out the set, even after being attacked onstage and fleeing in shock...does a diva act in such a manner..heck no...does a diva use moderation and discretion in discussing the internal matters pertaining to a so called family( as Tuomas described them, often)....if someone stabbed me in the back, doubtful, i would have her restraint, and just unload on them with full force until Tuomas is but a distant memory in the minds of their few remaining fans, at that time..so no Annete and certainly no Floor to follow...if someone accused me of marrying the wrong man because he was an Argentinian and it just did not fit well with the Finnish lifestyle...would you tell them to stuff it..(still smack of xenophobia from the great Tuomas
@@thegrtone744 Quote: "...if someone accused me of marrying the wrong man because he was an Argentinian and it just did not fit well with the Finnish lifestyle.."
It seems to me that this part of the letter got misunderstood a lot of times.
What it actually means is the fact that latino people have a different culture especially in terms of equality of woman. The accusation in that sentence is, that Tarja came under "bad" influence of her husband, who also seemed to have changed her in character (read as "he rules her"). There is another sentence in that letter, that also points in that direction.
This doesn't go into racism , it's a fact that cultures in latino vs. nordic countries is very very different, and that this along with other things changed Tarja and/or her relationship to Nightwish.
@@heiko3169 ... i referred to Tuomas comments as xenophonbic (not racist)...and the unfounded presumption that his origin manipulating women is less enlightened than our Finnish inclusive adoration for them...what he really meant was our women will work to exhaustion ( as ewo, their initial manager testified and to whom she often appealed to give her a bit more rest, a chance for better sleep on that 24-hour party bus, some privacy and security...as well as to guard against her vocal and overall health)..those were her unmet needs throughout the 9 years...Marcelo met Tarja in 2000, and became her manager soon thereafter, but it wasn't until midway through 2004 that she suddenly began to change?...(at the time she was seeking someone to fight for her interests (a week or so before the incident in which she was assaulted by a crazed fan, while onstage and was verbally outraged at Tuomas and the rest for continuing to headbang as she was curled up in a ball in the corner of her room in shock and tears while he was the only one to console her...care to guess how the boys responded to Marcelo's outrage (speaking of cultural differences..lol)..then when the song was done they remained onstage, at which time Tuomas casually sashayed over to the mic to announce a little incidence to be cleared up shortly (youtube clip of it exists) and returned just as nonchalantly to his keyboard....while Tarja (the diva) after regaining some composure and with still, tears in her eyes returned to finish the set....i know that to many new NW fans , this story is of little value, but the letter, (not to mention , nearly the entire subsequent album and later nefarious, negative comments),for which he was saddled with a supersized wedgie is very telling of his vindictiveness and lack of respect (one does not start a letter with "dear Tarja", populate its contents with defamatory half-truths, and in some cases, outright lies, and then perversely end it in a patronizing "good luck to you"...needless to say Tarja was far more discreet in her retort than i would be in similar setting..had she unloaded on him, the few remaining fans would flee into the night
they knew that Tarja had a lot of fans and that many of them would disapprove of their decision to fire the popular singer. By accusing Tarja of such unreasonable behaviour (e.g. greed and caring more about profit than about the fans etc) they ensured that many of the fans would take their side and support the rest of the band’s actions. Even those (like me) who are a little more sceptical of the claims made against Tarja cannot be sure that her behaviour didn’t justify her firing.
Trash taking her husband is a personal attack and lacks professionalism
[continue] If he and the other members of the band respected her, when she was attacked at a concert in Mexico, the "fine" members of the band continue playing and only Marcelo helped her. ARE WE SERIOUS? You don't stop to help your collegue, your FRIEND since school?
3) If Tuomas was so determined to fire her (before she quited as had told him, and I'm sure she had her reasons), fine, he should tell her face to face, not by a lousy, back-stabbing letter, to make her feel awful and humiliated.
I think Tuomas didn't had much choice but to make an open letter. The band Nightwhish didn't only had to reconsider the feelings of a friend, but the band also has an obligation to inform the fans of why they make a deccision so drastical for the future of Nightwish. If you chose to become a great artist you know that sometimes your privacy won't be respected and that you have an obligation to your fans.
Additionally, most of the anger experienced by Tarja fans, regarding her sacking and replacement, seems to have been misdirected towards the replacement singer, Anette, instead of towards the men who fired and publicly humiliated and vilified the original NW singer (I’m not saying this was intentional, but it does tend to take the heat off the rest of the band). For all I know, the allegations made in the letter were true, but even if this was the case (I suspect it wasn’t),
What an immature way of dealing with this... I've seen this letter before, some years ago and I still can't believe it. For a group of adult people, they handled the situation horribly, not only kicking Tarja out in a goddamn letter, but also how personal this "open letter" was. Open letter means it's addressed to a large group of people and this wan was solely addressed to Tarja. It's private, it's very personal and the fans should not have had been dragged into personal issues between them. None of us really knows what happened, but calling Tarja out in a personal letter posted for worldwide public to see was an asshole move and honestly, not something ANY friend would do. Unless, the person is not a friend at all. I think fans would not lash out on the new singers so much if Tarja leaving the band situation was handled properly.
I think Tarja said in the press conference that she would have been amenable to leaving the band immediately (if that was the wish of the other band members) but that she resented the way they chose to go about dismissing her. I don't know how true the allegations were about Tarja and Marcello's respective behaviours, but I can understand why Tuomas might resent Marcello's interference (assuming this was the case). However, I still feel that it was wrong to make the letter public.
The better of all that is, we have wonderful music in solos Tarja carrier and we have a great nightwish with Floor! So enjoy both bands seriously I enjoy both and I love the solo work of Tarja, I hope nightwish make a great one with Floor!
If what Tuomas said about Tarja is in fact true, then I think the band made the right decision.
I think its worth mentioning how easy it is to find this "Open Letter", yet you need to use the Wayback Machine to find the response to it. This isn't the reason Tarja left, its merely Toumas' side of it.
The Taria's open letter it still is a thing that itrigues me about Nightwish. Especially about the supposedly Tarja's greed. If Tarja is/was a greedy a person as Tuomas said, why did she wanted to do less shows? Less show means less money, doesn't it? I'm not a hundred percent sure about how the business work but aparently the letter has this contradition.That especific point could be understod as she wanted to do less show to have better performances and better quality of life, while the band want to became bigger , more famous and, consequantaly, gain more money. Noghting wrong with that but I'm not sure if Tarja can be consider a greedy person becouse of that.
There are many contradictions in the open letter, and not just the open letter, but all the circumstances surrounding it and the events afterward. One example, is how, by their own admission in their book, they began planning her dismissal in March! Stop and think about that for a moment. In this letter tuomas claims that he and the guys feared Tarja would quit any day. So, if you feared your lead vocalist, who is the face and voice of the band, is going to leave any day, you start planning to dismiss her in October, some 7 months later and you plan to do it with an open letter, a huge well orchestrated drama play, and you plan to film and release that final show where you "do the deed" on DVD and name it "End of an Era"? How could you do that if you truly believed she was going to quite "any day"? Yeah, right! Yes, somebody was motivated by greed! That's for certain, but it wasn't Tarja or Marcelo. It was the group of people who plotted and planned a huge Drama play for 7 months behind her back. It was the people who would exploit that drama with their "open letter" and their "end of an era" DVD. It was the people who would have a PR writer employed by the record label write a book trashing her and her husband. It was the people who would exploit that drama on their next album with hateful vindictive and dramatic songs like Bye Bye beautiful and Master Passion Greed on their very next album, Dark drama Play. It's very ironic that in life often the people who point the finger of blame the most are the truly guilty!
I agree with you. However, we have to admit that the story behind it is not black and white as we often like to put. Tarja in her interview was very upset about how the things where done but she didn't denied that she wannted to leave the band. She wasn't happy with what she had to sacrifice to be in Nightwish. She said in ont interview that She'd love to sing in a opera one day. That's her trully passion. I undersand now why she felt like she was sacrificing her dreams singing in Nightwish and why the band was upset about Tarja.
Onother thing that we have to undersant is that Nightwish is a professional band. It means that they will commercially explore everything that is possible to grow their business. So, exploitthe Tarja dismissal to produce midia it is not something that suprises me. She probably took finacial advantaje with that as well. I just don't agree with that unnecessary acusation of greed and disrespect towards the fans. And with the argument that "cultural diferences" would have motivated their separation, due to Marcelo being argentinian. That last even is a little bit racist to say the least.
About the songs. I fully support Tuomas. I undersatand that Tuomas has often put his feelings on the lyrics of the Nightwish songs. It is fair enoght for me If he was feeling what the lyrics says when he wrote the Dark Passion Play songs.
Thaks for answre my comment. Best!
@@stefanl5183 ..she gave them 2.5 year prior notice of leaving..you are so right..the book was supposed to be about the band but was mostly about the split and lies at that ...
@@alexandrelinsdossantos5604 .. she had many offers to leave but stayed, hoping to see changes...she did want to sing opera and she did while in NW..
i'm just curious, who is Marcelo anyway?
Tarja's husband
joselito091000 Marcelo is a convenient scape goat. That's my opinion. Honestly, there's not much we really know about Marcelo. Some people say he's the devil. Some people say he's an angel. What we really know as objective fact is very little.
We do know he and Tarja have been married for about 13 years and appear to be happy. We do know they have a beautiful daughter together. We also know that in Guadalajara in 2000 when Tarja was attacked on stage and sexually assaulted, Tuomas and the rest of the band simply stood there and continued to play on and Marcelo, whom she had just meet a few days prior was the only person who came to her aid. He pulled the guy off of her and kicked him off the stage. So, is Marcelo good or evil? You'll have to decide for yourself. Tuomas and Co. say he's evil and blame him for everything, but if tuomas did have feelings for Tarja and Marcelo wound up getting her, that might influence his opinion of him just a tiny bit don't you think?
Did Tarja and tuomos have a serious relationship in beginning before she met Marcelo? This letter if it is true just seems like tuomos is very emotional in his decision. In the song Ever Dream he did pause for a moment "end of an era". A lot of misspelling in this letter too, I question its authenticity.
+Stefan L I had no idea about that incident. The band memebers just stood there? Wtf
Thank for the letter, was very interesting for me. The soul of NW is not Tarja, not Anette, but TUOMAS! The singer is a living instrument of the composer.
Anyway Anette is very OK, I was on a NW concert a month ago and she was excellent! The new album is better with her than would have been with Tarja.
I totally agree with Tuomas - meaning His letter. He is a genial composer. I,ve discovered NW about 2 ys ago and that was love at 1. "heard": Dark Chest of Wonder
Greetings from Hungary:)
Even though I considered Tarja to be the best female singer on Earth ever, I have to take Tuomas's side on this one. However, rather than blaming Tarja, I'd blame Marcelo Cabulli. He was the one who drove a wedge between Tarja and Tuomas.
If only fate favoured the Tarja x Tuomas "shipping"...
But alas, things are not always as they should be. And hey, if bad things don't happen, how can we appreciate good things? Humans most of the time take everything for granted, and only appreciate what they don't have anymore.
A Nightwish without Tarja may be something we just can't swallow - not even after 10 years - but if a Nightwish without Tarja never existed... how could we appreciate the good old days of Tarja in Nightwish?
+Stephanus Tavilrond (Irrational Yuriphobe)
You may right and I agree with some things you say However, I think your presuming that a lot of what tuomas says is the absolute truth. I don't do that because of contradictions in some things he says and I also see motives for him to be less than honest or at least to spin the truth in his own direction.
For example, I find it most interesting that she informed them of her intent to leave in Dec 2004 in a private meeting and agreed to stay long enough for another album and tour and agreed to keep the fact she was leaving from the public. To me, this suggest that she was showing great consideration to her band mates. It looks as if she's trying to make it as easy on them as possible by giving them plenty of time to find a suitable replacement and not causing bad publicity by airing the bands dirty laundry in public. So, how did they repay her? By agreeing to her face. The immediately beginning to plot behind her back to take advantage of this consideration she showed them and actually use it against her by orchestrating a huge drama play in which they would fire her first in an open letter. A letter in which they level all these allegations against her painting her as the bad guy and thus turning the fans against her and causing them to likely remain loyal to the band. Clearly she acted more professional here and in doing so opened herself up to be stabbed in the back by the band. In this way they were able to get their "story" out first thus spinning it their way. Also they clearly used the whole thing to generate hype and publicity. The proof of this is the songs Bye Bye beautiful and Master Passion Greed which were released on the next album. This was a way to keep stirring the pot and to cash in on the hype and publicity by turning it into album sales. Clearly, it worked as Dark Passion play became their best selling album. So, the way I see it they clearly threw her under the bus to keep their fans loyal and gain new ones through hype and publicity.
@@stefanl5183 all you said
Tarja thought nightwish needed her
She didn’t know leaving nightwish will practically end her career
@LadyMithrain Agreed! The diferences in Tarja since she left NW are too big not to be noticed. Her performance on stage, for na instance, now she's much more "free", she has fun all the time, interacts with fans and stuff... when in Nightwish she sort of restrained herself and she didn't looked exactly happy... It's all too contradictory, I honnestly think that Tuomas was the problem, not Tarja. In my opinion, he atacked her and Marcelo in order to reach her somehow, even if in a bad way.
Floor Janssen Sucks.. They should have kept Anette Olzon!
Yeah, Tarja seemed to be a pain in the ass (I love her anyway), and I really think she should apologize for the bad things she had done. It seems Tuomas was a really nice person and Tarja stabbed him in the back. Maybe if she does it someday we may seem at least a reunion.
By fiering her the way they did its like they waned to destroy her reputation by purpose!! Like they waned to hurt her by purpose!! Nothing a person says becomes automatikly truth! And there are evidence of what some of the things they said in the letter is FALSE..like for instance that Tarja waned to cancel a show because she waned to hang out with her friends thats just so stupid of them to write in the letter!!
An open letter may not be the best way. But I believe it has its own reasons. Also Tarja canceled gigs. Nightwish's lineup isn't just a band. They often have a large staff of professionals with them. Up to 50 people who makes a living from concerts. How many were at the Tarjas era? I do not know. The letter tells for Tarja's unimportant reasons to canceling the concerts.
Irresponsible? That's why I understand Nightwish.
did you know that they planned concerts and sold ticket to them behind her back and when she found out and finally reached them, she struggled too cancel all of her affairs just to live up to her contract..she could have easily exposed them for what they did, then where if anywhere would Tuomas and his henchmen be ..their vindictiveness after she chose to have a slither of a personal life was vicious but that is what one would expect from a petulant manchild
it was a dirty means of shaving the legion of fans she would take with her as she left..Tarja cancelled one gig due to being given a few hour's notice to perform a 2nd night in Oslo and already having made a commitment to someone else...Marco's greed at the expense of her very health is what caused the incident
@Tooteika The book is written from the Nightwish perspective right? Of course it would paint Tarja and Marcelo as the villains. And well they might be, but their story doesn't get told, so only one side comes out.
You know, there are people that are blessed with beautiful skills, but sometimes those ones change into something unrecognizable. One of the prettiest human traits is humbleness. I do think Tarja lost her north in that aspect. But she got aware later on; to late in fact. Another thing, it's true that the four guys respected Tarja and looked up to her pretty much, but as long as I know Tuomas hasn't been so careful with the band members up to now. You just have to remember the way Anette parted ways with Nightwish. She was going over a difficult time with an illness, and Tuomas just minded about getting a singer to perform the shows while Anette bettered, and all this without even asking her at all. As it is obvious, the other two albums Nightwish recorded would have sounded better with Tarja. On the other hand, we've been glorified to see Tarja's composing and still enjoy our Mastermind Tuomas's opus.
No way Tarja could sing those two albums. Her training restricts those emotions.
I know that the band is their way of living and the soul of tuomas. But maybe Tarja wasnt so workaholic. She wanted to work, yes, but people sometimes need time for themselves... That is my feeling reading his letter. Sometimes our emotional is not in the right place and we need to do something different. I dont know...
Tarja could've been upfront and more tactful by stating that she was just burned out. That, at least, would've been understandable and she and the band might've parted on amicable terms with possibility of a reunion as opposed to the gaping chasm of bitterness that divides them. At the very least, they could still keep in touch, Tuomas and Tarja especially.
(continued) Seven, you talk of Tarja not wanting to write/arrange the songs. Why should she? You've stated that you, and only you, will ever get credit for the words and music. And all of the NW cd's I have, bear this out. If I was never going to get credit, I wouldn't contribute either. But as far as rehearsals, why was Tarja always the only one on stage in concerts having any fun, dancing around, getting into the music and knowing all of the arrangements? Looked like she was well rehearsed.
The TRUTH is that Nightwish became boked to play at a show and Tarja was only deliverd the news days before the real date!So they talked to Marcelo and asked if Tarja is able to sing that date and he said.Well she was planning to hang out with her friends that night but of course she will! Thats the truth..Tuomas and the rest of the crew automatikly becomes the bad guys by just fiering Tarja in the way they did it!.Only by doing it in a normal way non of our conversations would be here right now
They fired Anette too.
I could believe Tuomas if he hadn’t fired Anette too and if other members of the band had not left Nightwish, especially Marko. It is clear to me that Tuomas was in love with Tarja at that time and resented Marcelo greatly. Tuomas always said that Nightwish is like his diary, so go and read the lyrics and tell me he didn’t love her. About Tarja being a diva, well, I went to her shows many times and she never EVER acted like that to her fans or people around her and believe me, if she was a bad person, she wouldn’t be able to achieve the success she has now. It’s a small world and we would hear about that had she truly been a diva. This year I saw her with Marko in Brazil and they were extremely happy and excited together, do we need more evidence that Tuomas was bitter and resentful when he kicked Tarja out? How would it be possible that Marko, Anette and even Floor like Tarja if she truly was a bad person? Even if I’m wrong and Tarja fooled everyone for years and is a real diva, ending their relationship with an open letter was disrespectful and distasteful. I hope Tuomas was able to reflect about his actions and I hope he is a different person nowadays.
A teachable moment for both sides. Nightwish had very good and legitimate reasons. Bottomline: they just weren't getting along fine anymore and knew that Tarja would be leaving the band after the release of a new album. Tarja, on the other hand, had her own priorities, her own goals st up for the near future. Bottomline: the band shoul've spken with her personally first before making it public like they did. But what is done is done. Tarja made beautiful music with the band...
all that letter does is provide the inner thoughts of a jealous man who couldn't have the girl he was so clearly in love with,he can dress it up however he wants but the fact is he wanted tarja but her heart belongs to marcelo,and that was killing him.
The Open Letter was nothing more than ass covering propaganda. There was a response to it that brilliantly picked it apart, yet now you need the Wayback Machine site to find it, yet the Open Letter still persists, hmmmm.
right..i love going to various reaction sites to oppose all the lies
A letter written by a toxic person...
What a nice letter and explains a lot. Annette and Tarja are both good singers in different ways and I think it is good for NIghtwish to move away from Tarja and change to a different type of singer as it will allow them to explore new avenues musically
You need to rename this. Calling it "Tarja's open letter" suggests she wrote it but this is Tuomas's open letter not hers.
I don't really think it was right of him to make this an open letter.
Sorry if it is confusing what I wrote, smtiellgopher. The main idea is that I miss Tarja& Tuomas... It's not the same if they're not working together anymore. But I wish them both "Good luck!"
Tuomas was in love with Tarja and Tarja broke his heart. End of the discussion! haha
Who gives a fuck about tarja she is hystory now we have best female vocal and best composer I don't want more
@@pedjavukmirovic6770 clearly you werent there at Tarjas era.
and is not about giving a fuck or not. its just facts.
Dark Passion Play is the most expensive album a finish Artist ever have recorded!!!!!
(a) the fact that Tarja seems perfectly happy to play small venues as a solo artist since she departed from Nightwish (b) similar accusations have been made against Anette when they decided to fire her from the band and (c) as the composer, Tuomas earned more money than the rest of the band to begin with (some bands share song writing credits with other members, to ensure that they all receive an equal share of the royalties).
The way they decided to fire Tarja, was very cruel and not professional. They should have talked to her and explain the decision and leave room if she improves ore they could stayed good friends (afterall, they have spent 9 years together and without Toumas or Tarja it would not be the Nightwish as it was, and in case of any change she could have returned to the bend with different agreement).
I am only talking of the evidence we know are truth!!!...Tarja said she was going to leave Nightwish after the next albumb everybody knew that!..Tarja do not have her interests in money otherwise she wouldn't make contests and send money to charity!... If Tarja was going to be fierd they could just have done it like real professionals and tell it to her face!...Why post a letter and say such awful thing about her in Media and to THE WORLD which probably isent true!..
The only thing I think they were wrong about was disseminating this letter to the public the way they did. They should have just given Tarja the letter in private, announced they were looking for a new lead singer, and let Tarja be the one to decide if it should be in the public forum.
can i know what song is this?
Finally, like Tarja, Anette has been depicted as putting her own needs and desire for glory above the needs of the band and the fans. However, I get a strong impression that her position as the lead singer has been pretty much undermined throughout her time with NW. *If* this is the case, I can well understand why she might have reacted in such a sensitive and defensive manner when the band decided to allow other singers to replace her (Anette) on stage during her illness.
To compare the voice of Tarja who is educated opera singer and the voice of Anette who is balet dancer is biggest stupidity we can make. The same to compare NW+Tarja era and NW+Anette era.
NW+Tarja was the best combination and NW+Anette will never reach that quality level.
This is not conclusion made by “love and hate”; I’m only a realist.
I don’t give a sh..t why they decided so but to go separate ways was the WORST decision for the guys and Tarja.
It's that bit about being past the point of talking, towards the end. Did they try? or did Finnish parochialism pitch in?
I got it now - the guys didn’t want to pay her fair share of the money thy were making together
European Female Fronted Metal bands aren't copying Amy Lee/Evanescence. most of the European bands have either started before or around the same time as Evanescence.
It's easy to see why Tuomas wrote a letter instead of having a band meeting with her. For all we know, Tarja probably would have brought Marcelo to the meeting with her even if Tuomas asked her not to and tempers might have flared. Tuomas chose the calmer way of doing things and I respect him for that.
have you read the letter that she wrote back?
What song are playing on clip?
@nightwish22893: this letter is Tuomas' side of the story and not "the truth". And you should also give Tarja's side of the story if you want to be unbiasad. However, she has never publicly spoken about Tuomas. Only in her new song Enough. Those who want to hear Tarja's side of the story, find the lyrics.
Now anette has left. The band has problems that go far beyond who the vocalists are. They is no communication going on, among other things.....
It's not a band, it's a marriage. And Tarja didn't want to divorce her actual husband to hang out with losers who break up with open letters.
Thankyou for posting this in this slideshow way, I found it much easyer to read in ''chunks'' like this, whereas on the Nightwish website, seeing all that text really put me off reading it!
I still think ther may be a few parts of the story missing though, And I still miss Tarja's voice powering through Nightwishes songs.
@Moonsorrow84 I think you hit upon the explanation right there in your speaking of Tuomas and Sami's previous band. It wasn't Tuomas' band. He wanted to control everything. That's why he has said in interviews, and it's backed up by the statement on the cd's, that HE is totally Nightwish, not Tarja, not Anette, Sami, Marco, Jukka, Emmpu or any other living person ever. That's why none of them will ever get credit for anything. They are guests. They are told by Tuomas what to play. He is the CEO.
Tuomos is a taskmaster for sure. Beats herding cats.
typical capricorn being rejected and playing it bossy duh
Jealousy is the worst disease!
OK, here’s my 'essay' on the matter (please note that much of my supposition is based on my own, personal speculation and interpretation of events). Please forgive the length: I struggle to write succinctly when I get on my soapbox *blushes*.
You're right, truth lies in between. Tuomas isn't innocent of being greedy, as they had problems with the Oceanborn album when Tuomas wanted to take all credit for lyrics + compositions. And Tarja isn't an angel either, i'm sure there were huge misunderstandings on the band, that were never communicated from one side to another, and that killed the relationship from the core. It's sad, but i'm glad both sides are doing just fine now and are still successful :)
I understand the band now, the fact that Tarja was shocked by them not saying it to her face to face was explained in the letter.
He never stopped two seconds to think that maybe HE was the problem.
Talk only for yourself. I'm a fan of Tarja and still am a fan of Nightwish. And I will continue to listen to them, no matter who is the singer.
Ok, did any of you hating on Toumas actually read this? I mean HELLOOOO? This letter spells it all out she no longer believed in all ths band encompased! As much as I loved Tarja, she was no longer the right choice for the band. Anette has done a wonderful job so far keeping the spirit of the band alive. Its the music that matters, and bless whoever makes it worth listening to
this open letter is just one sound of the bell and not the main reason, anyway Tarja does well with her own band and Nightwish are not really hitting the fans out of the shoes with the new songs, neither with the "old" songs performed by Anette, but hey thats just my opinion as fan from the first CD on... enjoy your life : )
This letter is biased, has half-truths and mileading claims, actual reasons were left unsaid. Tarja's press confrence after this reveals the backgrounds and the details of the things mentioned in the letter. First I thought the boys had a good reasons. But I was completely ignorant back then.
seems to me that most people here have no idea that Tarja was attacked on stage in Mexico, and the band members did absolutely nothing to stop the man and just kept playing the songs, Marcelo had to come and help her. So I'm not surprised she didn't socialize with the band members after such an incident. You can find too separate videos from the same concert here on yt, where she gets harassed, and the band members do nothing about it.
There's a protocole in concerts which prevents the band members from getting involved in fights or interfering with the work of the professionals in charge of the security of the venue. And it's logical, it could make the problem much worse. I've seen plenty of attacks of the same style with other bands (check the Internet, because there are quite a few) and the band members just go on playing, because that's what they are suppossed to do. Once stated that, I must say I never liked the way she was dismissed, but firing her was the best movement they could do. After all, she had told them she was preparing her solo career and the divorce between the guys and Tarja/Marcelo was obvious. No wonder Tuomas and the others felt humiliated and looked down on. Don't forget all the members signed the letter and, if you read the interviews, you will see that Jukka or Marco are more agressive towards Tarja than Tuomas. And now they are at the top, selling out venues like Wembley Arena. I respect Tarja and the five albums they made together, but from the artistic point of view, they are better now.
How can you be so sure they all signed the later? It sounds fishy.
Because they all signed it and their names appear below the text, as simple as that.
Yolozsef Swagedűs when will you ever understand? That is the way it is always planned. Someone behind the curtain has to stop those situations, not band. Thats not their job. The person supposed to go out the stage to help her didnt do it so Marcelo did it. The band HAS to keep on going.
I'm new to Nightwish.. so I'm kinda curious what happened... But boy, what kind of letter is this? 😅 This felt like reading a diary. Too personal in my opinion. Very very VERY PERSONAL.
@ThompsonInternation That was a respectful comment, better than all the abuse I see on her videos. I heard Anette's songs first so became a fan of her and now am opening my eyes to some of Tarja's stuff. Wow! I think her voice is incredible, i love the music (esp this, phantom of the opera, angel) and I've seen vids of her stunning audiences live, although I admit I had to let her voice grow on me. I think Annette's voice however, is suited to more melodic songs like bye bye beautiful/ amaranth.
500 letters!
letter #1-Tarja Turunen
letter #2-A net Olson
letter #3-Floor Jansen
letter _ _ _ ...
letter #_ _ _
letter # _ _ _...
letter# _ _ _ ...
.......... _ _ _ ...
... ... ... _ _ _ ...
.......... _ _ _ ...
letter #500! HIP HIP UREi
viva 501 vocalist!
Tarja said her self in a interview she actually gave them 2 in a half years notice that she would leave the band
You are right, but are forgetting that even if their name didn't change once a member left, they where no longer the same group as they once where, and thus people who blindly follow name brands are not any "truer" then the rest of us>
I would still listen to Nightwish if i honestly like how'd they sounded with their new singer...but i don't. And that's nothing against her...it's just my opinion about the new sound they make. We all loved (or still do) at some time, that's all that matters.
Well, I hope that Anette is as hard working as she is cute! By the way, I like her voice. It's different, but Dio was different too and I thought he enriched the Black Sabbath sound. Here's to the new NIghtwish! (i'm raising a glass as i'm saying this)
would you say it was miscommunication?
It amazes me that a lot of people would rather have a cheap copy of Tarja instead of Anette. I hate it when they try to say Anette can't sing when she clearly can. She has quite a range. Also, no one ever complained when Marco joined and added his vocals to the songs.
I think Tarja is a good singer, and I love Nightwish. But Anette is also a good singer and she was also a part of Nightwish. Why can´t you accept that? Btw I don´t think The rest of the members of Nightwish where ALL right, Tarja must have something that Nightwish didn´t write in the letter.
***** What I have heard was that Tuomas and Tarja's new husband got in a bad fight or something and that was effecting the band.
BambixProductions
None in the band did like her new husband. Ever heard Master Passion Greed?
While I personally think that it was a little bit over the top to make the letter public, it shows Tarja was in the wrong and despite how much I loved her then as I do now, I can't defend someone if they're in the wrong. With an attitude like hers, her dismissal should be considered a blessing.