Just to clarify - the USCG told us over the VHF that they were already aware of the vessel and in no uncertain terms should we attempt boarding it - they already knew that no one was aboard and had no intention of coming to investigate but we didn't know that until much later. Nawal is a good sailor but the manouvers involved in attempting to board a vessel underway, and setting up a tow at sea would have been beyond our resources, especially where our outboard motor died a week before :(
If an abandoned vessel at sea is under the law of maritime salvage, why did USCG tell you under no uncertain circumstances were you to attempt boarding. For a solo sailor, I can see how boarding and towing would present a challenge but it wouldn't be that difficult given the conditions. I sail solo and that would have been a fortuitous upgrade for me, the things that dreams are made of. This is the 3rd you tube video I've seen, where people just sail past abandoned vessels which are in great condition. By leaving it, you are leaving a hazard to navigation that someone may run into after sunset, not to mention the potential value. Why does it never happen to me?? lol
"under no uncertain circumstances were you to attempt boarding" sounds to me like one of the coast guard guys had already stacked claim on it. Coming back later to get it.
@@norml.hugh-mann Wrong. Salvaging it, under maritime law, entitles a person to a reward. In this case, it would be a "high order" reward, likely equal to or near 100% of the value of the vessel. A lien is automatically placed on the vessel by law, and if the owner does not pay what is due to salvor, the vessel can be claimed instead. Plain and simple law that hasn't changed for generations.
@@SailingBalachandra Missed an opportunity to become an Admiral in command of more than one ship. Promote your first Mate to Captain of the new vessel.
Interesting Video. The bridge segment was a practical math/trig example. 20 deg heel on a 65.5 ft mast is approx 3.5 ft difference in height to the bridge! Creative solution.
We just bought a sailboat and we are going to sail around the world. Two weeks later mayday!! mayday!! coast guard help!!! Sailing Isn't for the faint of heart.
Really!, you wish you had known it was free at the time and would have tried to get on board, but you weren’t willing to climb on board to see if anyone needed assistance? (Someone could have been below suffering a medical event) That’s totally messed up guys, we sailors look out for each other, we always will offer to assist each other, thats the code of the ocean...
It is, and totally agree. I also do what the USCG tells me to do and they were very specific that I should not board it. (They knew no one was aboard) We had no outboard motor for our dinghy so there's no way I could have caught up with a vessel under sail at sea without an outboard, and if Nawal couldn't keep our own boat in close proximity or if she had any issues it would be impossible for me to get back aboard my own boat. We just didn't have the resources on hand to attempt anything like that
@@SailingBalachandra sorry if i miss interpreted you story, as you told it it seamed you found the boat, did not board, then found out it was abandoned. Maybe i need to re watch...
@@SailingBalachandra preservation and risk assessment is the finest characteristic of a good sea going sailor. Even a slip and fall between boats could be a potentially mortal injury. You did right by your crew. Your first priority. Do teach her to strike the sails, power up, navigate and dock the boat well. You may not always be available. The life you save may be your own.
I live by green cove, the marina is a retired Navy base, huge concrete docks. They are cheap on their haul out rates, they used to have a bad rep for security issues (theft), but thats been some yrs back. Buddy of mine had is boat there for a couple months late last yr and everything was fine.
Since the USCG told you not to attempt a boarding During the Mariel boat lift years I boarded several boats that had attempted to make the crossing from Cuba. It is a hazardous operation boarding another boat at sea. Usually I would board a small pack containing a first aid kit and water. With Marines covering me from the other boat. Too many times I found bodies onboard. Or the boat simply abandoned with the only signs of anyone being there were clothing and empty water and fuel containers
It's an old trucker's trick, just let some air out of the tires to lower the mast. Ought to work! I went under the Bear Cut Bridge, the last bridge on the Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne, in a 24 foot Columbia Contender sideways, the mast splanging off each strut under the bridge - NOT one of my greatest moments!
@@SailingBalachandra Yes, I had never admitted that to anyone before... I guess thee Iis an advantage to having a motor available - Sail really cannot cover EVERY angle of attack... But most of them! And prudence does carry the day.
I don't think anyone suggested getting the boat back to shore and giving it back to the owner. You know, in the way of being a decent human being. Money, money, money, greed, greed, greed.
The Coast Guard will tell you Do Not Board to limit theirliability in case something bad happens to you. Having a second person on my crew to manage my vessel I would have attempted to board at least to make sure no one was below incapacitated. I would have taken a bunch of fotos above and below decks, checked the log book, recorded her auto pilot setting to see where she had come from, dropped her sails, and towed her in. All that would not have been in service of getting a "free" boat. That would not have been known until the next day, perhaps. Not saying you did the wrong thing. Every captain needs to make their own decisions.
I wanted to do all of those things but Nawal is still a novice at single handling and our outboard motor was out of comission. The CG knew the boat was unmanned as they had already air lifted the crew off- this is why I was prohibited from boarding- they didn't want anyone on it. That said, there is no such thing as a "free boat" - the owner's underwritter is the true owner and they would have forced a claim to it and tied it up in expensive litigation- a total nightmare. Salvage rights would only win if the boat was all paid off and the guy didn't have insurance
Looks like a CD33 loaded. Boarding at sea w only two people is iffy. Conditions looked a little lumpy and the risk of injury probably made it a no go but man, if that were me as a third crew I would have went for it. Hope the captain and crew were okay. You have to wonder if that was the same boat the CG rescued. Odd they wouldn’t return and sort it out so it doesn’t thrash into someone else at night.. That’s their job
We gave them the reg# and identified the boat name "orion" as the same boat they lifted the 8 people from. Amazing they set out with 8 people on a 33' sailboat!
@@SailingBalachandra must have been an eerie experience. You have to first wonder if someone is sick or injured aboard with no reply, then it’s gets worse- was it a MOB situation? Very serious either way. Thanks for covering it.
The 2 vessels don't need to come together if you do a "drop back". Not sure what it was called in old sail days. But often crew were exchanged by a rowboat letting out rope. Tie both ends. One end to your boat & the other to your dinghy & play out the rope to the boat that was following close behind. Noelle should be able to do a Man Overboard exercise. Dump a MOB marker & circle back & pick you up.
I think you should have boarded. Someone onboard could have been in medical distress and unable to respond to your hail. Sorry, but it didn't look that windy.
Boarding a vessel under sail is extremely dangerous, especially with no one on board to lift you in. I would never never encourage anyone to try it alone. Putting yourself at risk like that can create an additional sea emergency resulting in a very different coast guard call. It's the same logic as jumping in after a man overboard. I would hate if someone was unjured by misunderstanding their responsibilities. That said, I explained in the top comment that the USCG very explicit in instructing us to by no means attempt to board the vessel.
So if we ever come upon an unmanned (or unwomanned, or unZeused) boat and can safely get on board and tow it we can either help someone out or get salvage rights? (As well as call the Coast Guard, of course). I'm guessing the USCG saying 'don't' was just to avoid sailors of unknown abilities from getting in trouble. Just today while kayaking someone called Channel 16 to report a boat under power crossing his bow a bit too close with no one at the helm. Normally I'd guess business in the head, but not with the sails ripped and flapping. Leaning the boat was brilliant. cosine of 30° is 0.866, so 87% of the height, so Cosine of 20° is 0.94 (I knew 30° it's handy; looked up for 20) so 94% of 65.66 = 61.72' or 61' 9" That's minus 4'. Seems like on a boring afternoon every boat owner and a friend or two should figure out how far over they can lean their craft by your method, measure the angle, (also figure out how much they can move and steer), then calculate the height and write in on the back of a cabinet door somewhere.
Agreed! Yes we have to go back through the bridge one more time so i'm thinking 1 day (or 2) after full moon to account for being way up river, fill all the heavy side water tanks and keep the sails down so i can stack them by the lifelines and add even more weight next time.
I feel like cruisers should put out a VHF broad cast the position and condition of salvage boats for anyone who wants to, has the capability to board and take possession!
So you didn't want to board the other vessel to find out if the skipper might be in need of medical assistance? But you said had you known it was free to salvage you would have made the attempt to take the boat or whatever you could get off of it. Mmmkay...
This was certainly on our minds but we were 20 miles from Jacksonville and the USCG told us not to attempt boarding. I think they didn't want to create more problems by other people taking risks.
Hey Guys! We live in green cove springs! Not sure what your doing during your time here but id love to hang out with you guys. If you want to come over for a cook out let me know!
So when you knew that the owner gave up ownership you consider to board😏 but seeing a boat with mayby hurt people beneath deck you would not take any risks. Nice message to fellow sailors 😡
@@norml.hugh-mann That could be a reason for sure but the chances of having rigging that would malfunction for both sails is pretty slim. Possibly the captain had a medical issue and no one else on board knew how to pull them in.
Are you guys still in Green Cove?? I bartend at Julington Creek Fish Camp... If you want help sanding or painting let me know. I live on my 415 Morgan oi!
Not to mention, maritime salvage laws can get complicated. Regardless of the captain forfeiting his claim, the insurance company could still argue for rights and take the boat and give you next to nothing or nothing at all.
That's not how salvage works at all. in your scenario the hypothetical insurance company would still be liable for a salvage fee. Salvage fees are either negotiated or determined by courts if an agreement can't be reached. But they almost always reward salvors handsomely. The whole point of international salvage law is to ensure that salvage is almost always in a potential salvor's best interest which increases the collective odds of every vessel in distress being saved. I'm no expert and who knows exactly what that boat is or it's condition. But a rough guess would be that a successful salvage would indeed be worth the full value of the boat. And an insurance company would be the least likely to bicker about it when their alternative is to sell it at a massive discount anyway.
@@MrJhchrist well, I haven't even been out on the open water. I race dinghys inland and eventually plan on moving to the coast for something bigger. From what I have read on the matter, they take into account your risk, expenditure and effort and they are in it for the money. That being said, maybe I should have said "less than you think" instead of "little or nothing" However, it may be completely up for grabs and if there was a solid crew on the boat I was leaving, heck yeah! I would be all over that boat like stink on poop!. 🙂
@@SailingBalachandra oh. yeah i wouldn't of moved my sail boat up against that thing either in that case. Of course you could of gone full jack sparrow and swing across from yours to theirs whilst maintaining some distance.
Towing can be done. Our outboard motor died so getting over to a moving vessel under sail was not even an option let alone attempting to board. We called USCG while on the scene and followed their instructions. Towing wasn't even discucssed or mentioned
Standard international salvage laws, which the U.S. accepts, would apply to the cruiser. If it had been successfully brought to shore then, due to the high risk situation of the vessel, the salvager could expect to be awarded between 70% and 100% of the value of the vessel and could retain possession of the vessel until the salvage award was paid. As the yacht was likely worth at least several tens of thousands of dollars an attempt at recovery would have been well worth the effort with only twenty or so miles to harbour.
@@SailingBalachandra As the boat was abandoned, the owner could not dispute the Salvage claim, He or his insurance carriers could negotiate over the size of the claim, however a vessel fully abandoned offshore is at high risks of complete loss therefore the maritime court (not a normal civil court) would be highly unlikely to award less than 70 or 80%.
Thanks for the info! That was on our minds after the fact - if someone were to take the risk and attepmt to salvage the sailboat just to end up in some long-term dispute involving lawyers and such and costing more than the salvage claim in the end
Ok, this video came up in my suggestions. So, I give it a view. If your boat is at where you were going in this video, you passed my boat on the way to the lift well. I'm two mooring balls away from it. I'm leaving Saturday to head North. - S/V Celtic Star
I can’t believe the CG didn’t make those people scuttle the boat! I think that’s disgraceful of them, they should know better, and so should have the owners. This is becoming a problem these days, I see it so over TH-cam people abandoning perfectly good good boat and then leaving them as hazards to navigation. Had you two been crossing that boat at night, with no AIS going, no lights, you could have very well collided with it. Or anyone else! That is a very busy seaway off Jacksonville I’ve sailed it myself, it’s dangerous enough with manned vessels everywhere. The “unwritten” maritime law is when abandoning a vessel it is to be scuttled, and the CG of all people should be enforcing that “law”. Glad you guys didn’t collide with it! Peace
interesting choice to remotely ascertain the situation with that vessel, albeit very close by, if indeed a sailor would have been on board, incapacitated below, or otherwise, you rather waited for the CoastGuard to come back to you??? apart from salvage, a bit disappointing to see this kind of attitude afloat at sea what if the CoastGuard was wrong ?
I read them the vessel name and reg. # off the bow and they said "yes we are aware of this vessel" and told us explicitly not to attempt boarding. I do what the USCG tells me to do.
@@SailingBalachandra yes, you made that point in your video. However, vessels abandoned at sea are a navigational nightmare similar are shipping containers, and to a point quite irresponsible if indeed the USCG has attended the scene and chose not to tow . It would have been a different video if your jolly Christmas trip downwind would have hit this obstacle at night....perhaps in rough seas... maybe a thought to ponder.... Any activity at sea, is hazardous or has the potential of being hazardous, thus training and training on the equipment go hand in hand, if there would have been people in distress on this vessel, or a simple man overboard incident.... given your inability to launch a boat, to come to their aid, would have cost lives.
Tough call. Safety won out which I can't criticize. But it wasn't that rough, I think you could have approached on a dinghy and gotten aboard. Wear a PFD and worst case your wife motors to pick you and the dink up if you go in the drink. That's 100k worth of boat, if it's a penny. Worth taking a calculated risk sitting here at my desk. I'm always curious how people make these decisions and perhaps if i was under way I'd do the same as you. Hmmmmmmmm.
We discussed this at length afterwards. Our dinghy was mounted on deck and we still had a full unpredictable day of sailing ahead of us. Our outboard motor died a week before so we only had OARS :( ...I would be taking a tow line with me meaning the boats would instantly be connected which means they could collide. Nawal would be all alone on a 44' vessel and would be in a pickle of something were to happen to me attempting to board a vessel under sail. The risk factors start to add up very quickly. I always think of how i would explain our actions to our families and it always boils down to unneccessary risk.
@@SailingBalachandra Thanks for the insight. Didn't realize the dink motor was kaput, I would not have tried it either in that case. And as I said, even if that weren't that case, i too defer to safety when in doubt. It's just a lot of money...I was trying to think of ways to mitigate the risks, just as a mental exercise, not to second guess you - if i came off that way I apologize. I guess the thought in my mind is that selling that boat off could fund 2+ years of cruising expenses. In the end, given what you described I'm with you. I am quite curious about people who abandon a floating vessel with a mast and sails still up. Those circumstances would be really interesting to understand. Me? If she's floating and i can hank a sail, I'll stay with her and ride out whatever conditions may be occurring. But panic and fear aboard a boat can make many strange things happen. Hmmm. This story really hooked me, good storytelling for sure, hehe.
I stopped watching your video as soon as I said you didn't board a boat that could have been in trouble, when you 100% could have boarded and checked. what if it was you on board that boat and helpless maybe unable to move . You could have just let someone die . Grow some man balls 👊
If you are in US waters always call the Coast Guard FIRST. never put yourself or your crew at risk for ANY reason unless instructed to do so by the Coast Guard.
You made the right decision. Especially since you were only 20 miles out and your crew was not proficient at single handing. Critics of that decision should check out the movie "Dead Calm." 🤣
@@SailingBalachandra Jacksonville Port Authority would have been the ones to ask about salvage procedures and registrations. I, for one am glad you did not try to board. I think you made a wise decision.
There's lots of potential headache red tape involved with a salvage boat. Check out Another Adventure salvage video- she pulled a 54 foot Jenneau off the beach in PR that the owner originally said was hers. Then later changed his mind. And she had to fight him in. Court for 8 months before it was resolved.
@@stinkintoad Yes, but a beached boat is still the property (and responsibility for damages and clearing-up )of the owner. A vessel abandoned at sea (not sure if it has to be in international waters) is different, and I believe the salvage rules still apply: finders keepers. However, now that we have driverless cars, interesting questions arise: if you have a remote-controlled yacht, fully automated and remotely controlled.... ?
I would have salvaged it, ( no risk approaching with dingy) and handed it right back to the original owner in Jacksonville, if they wanted it. And otherwise it would be totally yours. What a waste :( Great video.
Too bad you hadn’t had the information to take possession of that boat, and maybe gift it to one of your subscribers. Hint hint. Just saying.....( in case you see another, and need a fellow Canuck to help get it off your hands. LOL. ) As always. Liking your channel. Wish I had my boat, being in Cuba during Covid. Wow. Like having the whole place to yourselves.
We've had Balachandra 4 years, 2 of which continuously cruising and we have NEVER come accross a dinghy or vessel adrift like that. It was a once in a lifetime thing I guess unless you work in search and rescue/CG. Still I owe it to our families back home to make safe decisions.
@@SailingBalachandra pretty amazing to see that. It would give me the chills. As you said before you knew what happened, I guess you’d assume the worse. Captain fell overboard. Take care my friend.
I bet that happens to more people than we think. Buy a boat on a whim. Get into some real shit. Can't handle it and decide to bail. Once the Coast Guard was there the owner was probably like i hope it sinks.
I've read elsewhere that captain & crew often underestimate the sail-worthiness of their boats and seek rescue long before the boat is really in trouble due to weather. The suggestion I've seen is "don't step off the boat till the water is coming over the gunnels and you've exhausted all means of saving the boat". Here, you can see that the boat appears to be in pretty good shape and the crew lost their nerve due to weather. You can only imagine how much MORE scary/hazardous the rescue operation was than just riding out the storm in their well-found boat.
@@leighganschow5652 Honestly the beating old school boats were designed to take is incredible. The boats can handle much more than the crew. I think it is in Maiden Voyage she breaks a few ribs on an Atlantic passage, but the boat is none worse for it. Also, here on youtube, Wave Rover suffers a huge knockdown, I can't remember if Alan was injured, but it was amazing for a 26 foot boat in the Atlantic. He just kept going, even the wind vane survived and kept steering.
This is so poorly performed by you that’s is embarrassing, you show how much you lack in seamanship, education and compassion. As a fellow mariner you are obligated to investigate and assist. Shame on you.
I pinned a comment to the top of the comments section about this. We were instructed by the USCG to not attempt boarding for good reason. Nor were we even capable of doing so with no outboard motor
Get off your high horse mate, they did what they could in the circumstances. Where do you get off belittling what they did. Keep your negative thoughts to yourself Magnus Janse.
Canadians... It was amusing to watch them hanging out in Cuba while supporting the opressive regime... They are enjoying our great country now... Who would not? 🤔
Just unsubscribed. 20 miles from Jacksonville and you could not be bothered with going aboard a seemingly unmanned sailboat. They could have been someone hurt aboard and unable to let you know, at the very least that boat is a hazard to navigation. You could not be bothered to investigate. You, sir, are unsafe to other sailors.
I'll pin a comment to the top of the list- there is a missing information. The USCG told me over the VHF that they were already well aware of this vessel adrift and in no uncertain terms should I attempt boarding. They had no intention of coming to investigate it. It wasn't until much later I learned the full story
@@SailingBalachandra I would have checked for life, boarding boat if needed before I called Coast Guard. When I did call Coast Guard if told what you were told. I would simply inform them that I was towing the boat in. The bloody boat was a hazard to navigation. Offshore at night the risk of someone hitting it was great. I would have taken the time to look out for the next guy. I hope other sailors feel as I do.
@@larryboles629 It is not all that easy. Checking is one thing. Towing it is another. A friend of ours, his Catamaran took on much water during a storm. A freight ship rescued him, but refused to tow the boat. Reason being: 1. High speed differences 2. Cleats of sailboat would not withstand the forces. 3. Dock lines are not necessarily strong enough to endure a towing . 4. Towing is a skilled endeavor. Checking they did. Nobody responded. They themselves where out on a limp with a dead outboard. It would be the inflicted leading the blind. All not always as easy as it seems.
@@gerritcoetzee9075 This situation was not handled in the correct manner to ensure safety for those that followed. Regardless of your friend in a Cat. No working engine sucks. Had the abandoned boat been properly checked it could have shown fuel and a working engine. In the case of not being able to effectively tow the boat, the adrift sailboat should have been sunk. It was and who knows may still be a hazard to navigation. With the information known at the time, had I not been able to tow the boat, and seeing no evidence of the Coast Guard responding, that boat would now be at the bottom. Again, I hope like hell another sailor would look at the same situation and decide to take the safety of other sailors into consideration and do what I would have. A rainy night, a collision that could have been avoided. OH Hell Yes! I would happily deal with any pushback from the Coast Guard.
I can't imagine how depraved you have to be to take possession with intent to keep without contacting the owner and inquiring into the circumstances and if they wanted to negotiate a transfer with payment for your troubles.
Foolish,,,,Very foolish,,,,you had the people and it was very calm,,,,,you should have ignored all and gone aboard,,,,tied a tow line to the anchor,,,,let out about forty feet of chain, and with about sixty feet of tow, the anchor and chain was a spring....tucked the sails away and done the twenty miles, twenty miles is absolutely nothing. SHAME SHAME SHAME.
Never, ever critize the us Coast Guard! You are not a us citizen and may live to regret this as committing defamation against the USA department of Homeland Security.... Trust me, if you record such disregard for their actions, that will work against you for life
@Larry Boles I definitely would have gotten on that boat ...... I need a NEW USED dingy ... 😁 Seriously, check for signs of life, nobody onboard, try to tow .... if it becomes a problem scuttle ... I've been towed, not that big of a deal as long as the weather/seas are good. FYI: UNSUBSCRIBED 👎
Just to clarify - the USCG told us over the VHF that they were already aware of the vessel and in no uncertain terms should we attempt boarding it - they already knew that no one was aboard and had no intention of coming to investigate but we didn't know that until much later. Nawal is a good sailor but the manouvers involved in attempting to board a vessel underway, and setting up a tow at sea would have been beyond our resources, especially where our outboard motor died a week before :(
I would have rowed that boat to port if I had to 😁
The salvage value could have paid for your new outboard motor.
A rather disturbing episode considering the CG orders and all.
Was gonna say just hang weight off boom. Seen boats with 5 feet or more need for clearance clear bridges by hanging water bag
If an abandoned vessel at sea is under the law of maritime salvage, why did USCG tell you under no uncertain circumstances were you to attempt boarding. For a solo sailor, I can see how boarding and towing would present a challenge but it wouldn't be that difficult given the conditions. I sail solo and that would have been a fortuitous upgrade for me, the things that dreams are made of. This is the 3rd you tube video I've seen, where people just sail past abandoned vessels which are in great condition. By leaving it, you are leaving a hazard to navigation that someone may run into after sunset, not to mention the potential value. Why does it never happen to me?? lol
"under no uncertain circumstances were you to attempt boarding" sounds to me like one of the coast guard guys had already stacked claim on it. Coming back later to get it.
@@Bantie1 not how salvage works...cant "claim it" without havinf control over it.
he talks to owner and gets the boat gifted then goes back to retrieve the boat. Easy Peasy
@@norml.hugh-mann Wrong. Salvaging it, under maritime law, entitles a person to a reward. In this case, it would be a "high order" reward, likely equal to or near 100% of the value of the vessel. A lien is automatically placed on the vessel by law, and if the owner does not pay what is due to salvor, the vessel can be claimed instead. Plain and simple law that hasn't changed for generations.
Not sure if you did the right thing, the captain could’ve been below disabled. For me I could not I’ve left without knowing.
The cost guard was literally telling you that vessel was yours!!
I know... :(
@@SailingBalachandra Missed an opportunity to become an Admiral in command of more than one ship. Promote your first Mate to Captain of the new vessel.
So it may still be out there. Find it and see if it is worth restoration.
Wow a free sailboat would love to have you as my best friend
@@uglyduckling81 Nah, just a commodore, not an admiral yet!
That's a creative way to clear a bridge, dingy physics.
Interesting Video. The bridge segment was a practical math/trig example. 20 deg heel on a 65.5 ft mast is approx 3.5 ft difference in height to the bridge! Creative solution.
Now this is what they should be teaching in high school math!
@@RaymondFratto it's called geometry
FINALLY......Trig comes into play.
We just bought a sailboat and we are going to sail around the world. Two weeks later mayday!! mayday!! coast guard help!!! Sailing Isn't for the faint of heart.
Really!, you wish you had known it was free at the time and would have tried to get on board, but you weren’t willing to climb on board to see if anyone needed assistance? (Someone could have been below suffering a medical event) That’s totally messed up guys, we sailors look out for each other, we always will offer to assist each other, thats the code of the ocean...
It is, and totally agree. I also do what the USCG tells me to do and they were very specific that I should not board it. (They knew no one was aboard) We had no outboard motor for our dinghy so there's no way I could have caught up with a vessel under sail at sea without an outboard, and if Nawal couldn't keep our own boat in close proximity or if she had any issues it would be impossible for me to get back aboard my own boat. We just didn't have the resources on hand to attempt anything like that
@@SailingBalachandra sorry if i miss interpreted you story, as you told it it seamed you found the boat, did not board, then found out it was abandoned. Maybe i need to re watch...
@@SailingBalachandra preservation and risk assessment is the finest characteristic of a good sea going sailor. Even a slip and fall between boats could be a potentially mortal injury. You did right by your crew. Your first priority. Do teach her to strike the sails, power up, navigate and dock the boat well. You may not always be available. The life you save may be your own.
Would like to see some footage of the Greencove springs marina. Maybe that's next? How was the entry into the St Johns River?
On the way. St johns entrance is a piece of cake but will be much faster if you come in with the tide.
I live by green cove, the marina is a retired Navy base, huge concrete docks.
They are cheap on their haul out rates, they used to have a bad rep for security issues (theft), but thats been some yrs back. Buddy of mine had is boat there for a couple months late last yr and everything was fine.
There is a free 48 hour dock in Jacksonville on the ICW
Since the USCG told you not to attempt a boarding During the Mariel boat lift years I boarded several boats that had attempted to make the crossing from Cuba. It is a hazardous operation boarding another boat at sea. Usually I would board a small pack containing a first aid kit and water. With Marines covering me from the other boat. Too many times I found bodies onboard. Or the boat simply abandoned with the only signs of anyone being there were clothing and empty water and fuel containers
It's an old trucker's trick, just let some air out of the tires to lower the mast. Ought to work!
I went under the Bear Cut Bridge, the last bridge on the Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne, in a 24 foot Columbia Contender sideways, the mast splanging off each strut under the bridge - NOT one of my greatest moments!
Ouch!
@@SailingBalachandra Yes, I had never admitted that to anyone before... I guess thee Iis an advantage to having a motor available - Sail really cannot cover EVERY angle of attack... But most of them! And prudence does carry the day.
I don't think anyone suggested getting the boat back to shore and giving it back to the owner. You know, in the way of being a decent human being. Money, money, money, greed, greed, greed.
The Coast Guard will tell you Do Not Board to limit theirliability in case something bad happens to you. Having a second person on my crew to manage my vessel I would have attempted to board at least to make sure no one was below incapacitated. I would have taken a bunch of fotos above and below decks, checked the log book, recorded her auto pilot setting to see where she had come from, dropped her sails, and towed her in. All that would not have been in service of getting a "free" boat. That would not have been known until the next day, perhaps. Not saying you did the wrong thing. Every captain needs to make their own decisions.
I wanted to do all of those things but Nawal is still a novice at single handling and our outboard motor was out of comission. The CG knew the boat was unmanned as they had already air lifted the crew off- this is why I was prohibited from boarding- they didn't want anyone on it. That said, there is no such thing as a "free boat" - the owner's underwritter is the true owner and they would have forced a claim to it and tied it up in expensive litigation- a total nightmare. Salvage rights would only win if the boat was all paid off and the guy didn't have insurance
So the coast guard said screw it , don’t save the person boat or look for a person that may have fell off , really great
The coast guard lifted 8 people off. They already knew it was empty
For future reference, raise your main to make the boat heal is a bit easier.
This was very erie to see and hear about. Being a new cruiser this scares me...😰. Glad to hear everyone got off the boat safely.
Looks like a CD33 loaded. Boarding at sea w only two people is iffy. Conditions looked a little lumpy and the risk of injury probably made it a no go but man, if that were me as a third crew I would have went for it. Hope the captain and crew were okay. You have to wonder if that was the same boat the CG rescued. Odd they wouldn’t return and sort it out so it doesn’t thrash into someone else at night.. That’s their job
We gave them the reg# and identified the boat name "orion" as the same boat they lifted the 8 people from. Amazing they set out with 8 people on a 33' sailboat!
@@SailingBalachandra must have been an eerie experience. You have to first wonder if someone is sick or injured aboard with no reply, then it’s gets worse- was it a MOB situation? Very serious either way. Thanks for covering it.
You have a bigger set of nuts than I do. I would not have gone under that bridge.
The 2 vessels don't need to come together if you do a "drop back". Not sure what it was called in old sail days. But often crew were exchanged by a rowboat letting out rope. Tie both ends. One end to your boat & the other to your dinghy & play out the rope to the boat that was following close behind. Noelle should be able to do a Man Overboard exercise. Dump a MOB marker & circle back & pick you up.
Thanks for not taking a video of going under the bridge.......it was much more exciting hearing about it. Or, did it really happen??????
Caught in a storm under nearly full sail....what could possibly have gone wrong......
Worth saving
Love your show
Like the new channel!
So what were those coordinates?
I think you should have boarded. Someone onboard could have been in medical distress and unable to respond to your hail. Sorry, but it didn't look that windy.
Boarding a vessel under sail is extremely dangerous, especially with no one on board to lift you in. I would never never encourage anyone to try it alone. Putting yourself at risk like that can create an additional sea emergency resulting in a very different coast guard call. It's the same logic as jumping in after a man overboard. I would hate if someone was unjured by misunderstanding their responsibilities. That said, I explained in the top comment that the USCG very explicit in instructing us to by no means attempt to board the vessel.
So if we ever come upon an unmanned (or unwomanned, or unZeused) boat and can safely get on board and tow it we can either help someone out or get salvage rights? (As well as call the Coast Guard, of course). I'm guessing the USCG saying 'don't' was just to avoid sailors of unknown abilities from getting in trouble. Just today while kayaking someone called Channel 16 to report a boat under power crossing his bow a bit too close with no one at the helm. Normally I'd guess business in the head, but not with the sails ripped and flapping.
Leaning the boat was brilliant. cosine of 30° is 0.866, so 87% of the height, so Cosine of 20° is 0.94 (I knew 30° it's handy; looked up for 20) so 94% of 65.66 = 61.72' or 61' 9" That's minus 4'. Seems like on a boring afternoon every boat owner and a friend or two should figure out how far over they can lean their craft by your method, measure the angle, (also figure out how much they can move and steer), then calculate the height and write in on the back of a cabinet door somewhere.
Agreed! Yes we have to go back through the bridge one more time so i'm thinking 1 day (or 2) after full moon to account for being way up river, fill all the heavy side water tanks and keep the sails down so i can stack them by the lifelines and add even more weight next time.
Any future plans to bring your boat to the west coast????
Getting through the canal is a bit of an undertaking but i think we'd probably sail up to BC before we go into the Pacific
@@SailingBalachandra you should. The BC coast is amazing. After several months....Hawaii.
I feel like cruisers should put out a VHF broad cast the position and condition of salvage boats for anyone who wants to, has the capability to board and take possession!
What about filling the inflatable with water since it weight would be 8.5 per gallon.
8.3
So you didn't want to board the other vessel to find out if the skipper might be in need of medical assistance? But you said had you known it was free to salvage you would have made the attempt to take the boat or whatever you could get off of it. Mmmkay...
I mean someone could have been dying from simple dehydration.
This was certainly on our minds but we were 20 miles from Jacksonville and the USCG told us not to attempt boarding. I think they didn't want to create more problems by other people taking risks.
Hey guys are you home now?
We'll call you :)
Hey Guys! We live in green cove springs! Not sure what your doing during your time here but id love to hang out with you guys. If you want to come over for a cook out let me know!
Yes please! We're no longer in Florida but we'll be back in GCS soon - send us a message on FB and we'll connect
So when you knew that the owner gave up ownership you consider to board😏 but seeing a boat with mayby hurt people beneath deck you would not take any risks. Nice message to fellow sailors 😡
In those conditions I would have boarded her via tender . But you are the captain of your own yacht so you made the call not to .
Can anyone identify the make/model of that sailboat ?...
Cape dory 36
@@joebloggs2862 Wow, so 50k-100k boat,..I'm sorry, I definitely would have figured something out to tow that in.
@@joebloggs2862 I thought that but the CD36 has a bow sprit. This does not. CD33 maybe
Really makes you wonder why you would have full sails out if you were in heavy weather and needed a rescue???
If you couldnt get them down??
@@norml.hugh-mann That could be a reason for sure but the chances of having rigging that would malfunction for both sails is pretty slim. Possibly the captain had a medical issue and no one else on board knew how to pull them in.
Nice first time watching enjoyed watching.
Are you guys still in Green Cove?? I bartend at Julington Creek Fish Camp... If you want help sanding or painting let me know. I live on my 415 Morgan oi!
Nice! There was no room in the work yard but when we can move in there i'll let you know :) send us a message on FB and we'll connect
Hey guys. Just subscribed to your channel. We meet in sxm. Jay.
Hi Jay! How are things going in SXM? Having more BBQs?
Not to mention, maritime salvage laws can get complicated. Regardless of the captain forfeiting his claim, the insurance company could still argue for rights and take the boat and give you next to nothing or nothing at all.
That's not how salvage works at all. in your scenario the hypothetical insurance company would still be liable for a salvage fee. Salvage fees are either negotiated or determined by courts if an agreement can't be reached. But they almost always reward salvors handsomely. The whole point of international salvage law is to ensure that salvage is almost always in a potential salvor's best interest which increases the collective odds of every vessel in distress being saved. I'm no expert and who knows exactly what that boat is or it's condition. But a rough guess would be that a successful salvage would indeed be worth the full value of the boat. And an insurance company would be the least likely to bicker about it when their alternative is to sell it at a massive discount anyway.
@@MrJhchrist well, I haven't even been out on the open water. I race dinghys inland and eventually plan on moving to the coast for something bigger. From what I have read on the matter, they take into account your risk, expenditure and effort and they are in it for the money. That being said, maybe I should have said "less than you think" instead of "little or nothing" However, it may be completely up for grabs and if there was a solid crew on the boat I was leaving, heck yeah! I would be all over that boat like stink on poop!. 🙂
You should of gotten close, dropped your sails and gone to motor only. Then launched the dinghy. Wouldn't of been that hard to get on that thing.
We had no outboard motor
@@SailingBalachandra oh. yeah i wouldn't of moved my sail boat up against that thing either in that case.
Of course you could of gone full jack sparrow and swing across from yours to theirs whilst maintaining some distance.
Nice.
what's the problem with towing the boat? do not know how or not desire? sorry that it happened
Towing can be done. Our outboard motor died so getting over to a moving vessel under sail was not even an option let alone attempting to board. We called USCG while on the scene and followed their instructions. Towing wasn't even discucssed or mentioned
@@SailingBalachandra And the boat was left at sea? Or is there information about towing to the shore?
Standard international salvage laws, which the U.S. accepts, would apply to the cruiser. If it had been successfully brought to shore then, due to the high risk situation of the vessel, the salvager could expect to be awarded between 70% and 100% of the value of the vessel and could retain possession of the vessel until the salvage award was paid. As the yacht was likely worth at least several tens of thousands of dollars an attempt at recovery would have been well worth the effort with only twenty or so miles to harbour.
I was wonderring this. Could the Owner go legal and fight to get his boat back in court?
@@SailingBalachandra As the boat was abandoned, the owner could not dispute the Salvage claim, He or his insurance carriers could negotiate over the size of the claim, however a vessel fully abandoned offshore is at high risks of complete loss therefore the maritime court (not a normal civil court) would be highly unlikely to award less than 70 or 80%.
Thanks for the info! That was on our minds after the fact - if someone were to take the risk and attepmt to salvage the sailboat just to end up in some long-term dispute involving lawyers and such and costing more than the salvage claim in the end
@@georgehope5341 Good information.
Ok, this video came up in my suggestions. So, I give it a view. If your boat is at where you were going in this video, you passed my boat on the way to the lift well. I'm two mooring balls away from it. I'm leaving Saturday to head North. - S/V Celtic Star
Yes, we made it to GCS. Pretty sure i remember Celtic Star on a mooring- nice boat! :)
I doubt the owner would voluntarily give up ownership. I think its just maritime law that someone can salvage an abandoned boat.
Agreed. That’s $50k ish there all day long. Someone’s dream. One reef in Main. Did Balachandras captain ID her as Orion as the CG stated?
I can’t believe the CG didn’t make those people scuttle the boat! I think that’s disgraceful of them, they should know better, and so should have the owners. This is becoming a problem these days, I see it so over TH-cam people abandoning perfectly good good boat and then leaving them as hazards to navigation. Had you two been crossing that boat at night, with no AIS going, no lights, you could have very well collided with it. Or anyone else! That is a very busy seaway off Jacksonville I’ve sailed it myself, it’s dangerous enough with manned vessels everywhere. The “unwritten” maritime law is when abandoning a vessel it is to be scuttled, and the CG of all people should be enforcing that “law”. Glad you guys didn’t collide with it! Peace
interesting choice to remotely ascertain the situation with that vessel, albeit very close by, if indeed a sailor would have been on board, incapacitated below, or otherwise, you rather waited for the CoastGuard to come back to you??? apart from salvage,
a bit disappointing to see this kind of attitude afloat at sea
what if the CoastGuard was wrong ?
I read them the vessel name and reg. # off the bow and they said "yes we are aware of this vessel" and told us explicitly not to attempt boarding. I do what the USCG tells me to do.
@@SailingBalachandra yes, you made that point in your video.
However, vessels abandoned at sea are a navigational nightmare similar are shipping containers,
and to a point quite irresponsible if indeed the USCG has attended the scene and chose not to tow .
It would have been a different video if your jolly Christmas trip downwind would have hit this obstacle at night....perhaps in rough seas...
maybe a thought to ponder....
Any activity at sea, is hazardous or has the potential of being hazardous, thus training and training on the equipment go hand in hand,
if there would have been people in distress on this vessel, or a simple man overboard incident....
given your inability to launch a boat, to come to their aid,
would have cost lives.
No pictures! It didn’t happen.
Tough call. Safety won out which I can't criticize. But it wasn't that rough, I think you could have approached on a dinghy and gotten aboard. Wear a PFD and worst case your wife motors to pick you and the dink up if you go in the drink. That's 100k worth of boat, if it's a penny. Worth taking a calculated risk sitting here at my desk. I'm always curious how people make these decisions and perhaps if i was under way I'd do the same as you. Hmmmmmmmm.
We discussed this at length afterwards. Our dinghy was mounted on deck and we still had a full unpredictable day of sailing ahead of us. Our outboard motor died a week before so we only had OARS :( ...I would be taking a tow line with me meaning the boats would instantly be connected which means they could collide. Nawal would be all alone on a 44' vessel and would be in a pickle of something were to happen to me attempting to board a vessel under sail. The risk factors start to add up very quickly. I always think of how i would explain our actions to our families and it always boils down to unneccessary risk.
@@SailingBalachandra Thanks for the insight. Didn't realize the dink motor was kaput, I would not have tried it either in that case. And as I said, even if that weren't that case, i too defer to safety when in doubt. It's just a lot of money...I was trying to think of ways to mitigate the risks, just as a mental exercise, not to second guess you - if i came off that way I apologize. I guess the thought in my mind is that selling that boat off could fund 2+ years of cruising expenses. In the end, given what you described I'm with you.
I am quite curious about people who abandon a floating vessel with a mast and sails still up. Those circumstances would be really interesting to understand. Me? If she's floating and i can hank a sail, I'll stay with her and ride out whatever conditions may be occurring. But panic and fear aboard a boat can make many strange things happen.
Hmmm. This story really hooked me, good storytelling for sure, hehe.
I Would have boarded and stowed the sails towed in back in .
Badass solution to gettin to where you needed to go. Glad it worked out
Nice work heeling over under the bridge, crew.
I stopped watching your video as soon as I said you didn't board a boat that could have been in trouble, when you 100% could have boarded and checked. what if it was you on board that boat and helpless maybe unable to move . You could have just let someone die . Grow some man balls 👊
If you are in US waters always call the Coast Guard FIRST. never put yourself or your crew at risk for ANY reason unless instructed to do so by the Coast Guard.
Yeah , the hipster doofus who is THC prone makes silly comment.
You made the right decision. Especially since you were only 20 miles out and your crew was not proficient at single handing. Critics of that decision should check out the movie "Dead Calm." 🤣
So you could have LEGALLY took the boat and sold it in Jackson?
Technically yes- not sure what paperwork would be involved, taxes, registrations, title... legal battle with the PO?
@@SailingBalachandra Jacksonville Port Authority would have been the ones to ask about salvage procedures and registrations. I, for one am glad you did not try to board. I think you made a wise decision.
There's lots of potential headache red tape involved with a salvage boat. Check out Another Adventure salvage video- she pulled a 54 foot Jenneau off the beach in PR that the owner originally said was hers. Then later changed his mind. And she had to fight him in. Court for 8 months before it was resolved.
@@stinkintoad Yes, but a beached boat is still the property (and responsibility for damages and clearing-up )of the owner. A vessel abandoned at sea (not sure if it has to be in international waters) is different, and I believe the salvage rules still apply: finders keepers. However, now that we have driverless cars, interesting questions arise: if you have a remote-controlled yacht, fully automated and remotely controlled.... ?
Good video guys 👍
Where's that boat I'll go get it
Smuggling yanks out of cuba??
I would have salvaged it, ( no risk approaching with dingy) and handed it right back to the original owner in Jacksonville, if they wanted it. And otherwise it would be totally yours. What a waste :( Great video.
Man salvage the sail cruiser I'd buy it for a dollar 🤑!
Yeah, so you could probably remove equipment and make a nice chunk of cash off salvage.
@@John-gp9qf probably not... Salvage laws are full of red tape and litigation.... Canadians would probably be arrested, deported and worse...
@@saylaveenadmearedead "False".
Too bad you hadn’t had the information to take possession of that boat, and maybe gift it to one of your subscribers. Hint hint. Just saying.....( in case you see another, and need a fellow Canuck to help get it off your hands. LOL. )
As always. Liking your channel. Wish I had my boat, being in Cuba during Covid. Wow. Like having the whole place to yourselves.
We've had Balachandra 4 years, 2 of which continuously cruising and we have NEVER come accross a dinghy or vessel adrift like that. It was a once in a lifetime thing I guess unless you work in search and rescue/CG. Still I owe it to our families back home to make safe decisions.
@@SailingBalachandra pretty amazing to see that. It would give me the chills. As you said before you knew what happened, I guess you’d assume the worse. Captain fell overboard. Take care my friend.
Drug runner?? Not a good idea to board?
I didn't even consider drugs... that far north i doubt it
I bet that happens to more people than we think. Buy a boat on a whim. Get into some real shit. Can't handle it and decide to bail. Once the Coast Guard was there the owner was probably like i hope it sinks.
I've read elsewhere that captain & crew often underestimate the sail-worthiness of their boats and seek rescue long before the boat is really in trouble due to weather. The suggestion I've seen is "don't step off the boat till the water is coming over the gunnels and you've exhausted all means of saving the boat". Here, you can see that the boat appears to be in pretty good shape and the crew lost their nerve due to weather. You can only imagine how much MORE scary/hazardous the rescue operation was than just riding out the storm in their well-found boat.
@@leighganschow5652 Honestly the beating old school boats were designed to take is incredible. The boats can handle much more than the crew. I think it is in Maiden Voyage she breaks a few ribs on an Atlantic passage, but the boat is none worse for it. Also, here on youtube, Wave Rover suffers a huge knockdown, I can't remember if Alan was injured, but it was amazing for a 26 foot boat in the Atlantic. He just kept going, even the wind vane survived and kept steering.
This is so poorly performed by you that’s is embarrassing, you show how much you lack in seamanship, education and compassion. As a fellow mariner you are obligated to investigate and assist. Shame on you.
I pinned a comment to the top of the comments section about this. We were instructed by the USCG to not attempt boarding for good reason. Nor were we even capable of doing so with no outboard motor
Get off your high horse mate, they did what they could in the circumstances. Where do you get off belittling what they did. Keep your negative thoughts to yourself Magnus Janse.
Canadians... It was amusing to watch them hanging out in Cuba while supporting the opressive regime... They are enjoying our great country now... Who would not? 🤔
Just unsubscribed. 20 miles from Jacksonville and you could not be bothered with going aboard a seemingly unmanned sailboat. They could have been someone hurt aboard and unable to let you know, at the very least that boat is a hazard to navigation. You could not be bothered to investigate. You, sir, are unsafe to other sailors.
Agree; he may be a chicken shit.
I'll pin a comment to the top of the list- there is a missing information. The USCG told me over the VHF that they were already well aware of this vessel adrift and in no uncertain terms should I attempt boarding. They had no intention of coming to investigate it. It wasn't until much later I learned the full story
@@SailingBalachandra I would have checked for life, boarding boat if needed before I called Coast Guard. When I did call Coast Guard if told what you were told. I would simply inform them that I was towing the boat in. The bloody boat was a hazard to navigation. Offshore at night the risk of someone hitting it was great. I would have taken the time to look out for the next guy. I hope other sailors feel as I do.
@@larryboles629
It is not all that easy. Checking is one thing. Towing it is another. A friend of ours, his Catamaran took on much water during a storm. A freight ship rescued him, but refused to tow the boat. Reason being:
1. High speed differences
2. Cleats of sailboat would not withstand the forces.
3. Dock lines are not necessarily strong enough to endure a towing .
4. Towing is a skilled endeavor.
Checking they did. Nobody responded.
They themselves where out on a limp with a dead outboard.
It would be the inflicted leading the blind.
All not always as easy as it seems.
@@gerritcoetzee9075 This situation was not handled in the correct manner to ensure safety for those that followed. Regardless of your friend in a Cat. No working engine sucks. Had the abandoned boat been properly checked it could have shown fuel and a working engine. In the case of not being able to effectively tow the boat, the adrift sailboat should have been sunk. It was and who knows may still be a hazard to navigation. With the information known at the time, had I not been able to tow the boat, and seeing no evidence of the Coast Guard responding, that boat would now be at the bottom. Again, I hope like hell another sailor would look at the same situation and decide to take the safety of other sailors into consideration and do what I would have. A rainy night, a collision that could have been avoided. OH Hell Yes! I would happily deal with any pushback from the Coast Guard.
I can't imagine how depraved you have to be to take possession with intent to keep without contacting the owner and inquiring into the circumstances and if they wanted to negotiate a transfer with payment for your troubles.
Read up on the principles of salvage. It's not depraved; it's the way things are, and always have been, for good reason.
Foolish,,,,Very foolish,,,,you had the people and it was very calm,,,,,you should have ignored all and gone aboard,,,,tied a tow line to the anchor,,,,let out about forty feet of chain, and with about sixty feet of tow, the anchor and chain was a spring....tucked the sails away and done the twenty miles, twenty miles is absolutely nothing. SHAME SHAME SHAME.
Might have been a plague ship…..
Never, ever critize the us Coast Guard! You are not a us citizen and may live to regret this as committing defamation against the USA department of Homeland Security....
Trust me, if you record such disregard for their actions, that will work against you for life
Yeah... that's not thing.
Please. No
It seems that the other “irresponsible” party is you!
The USCG was 20 miles away and over the VHF they were already aware of the vessel and told me in no uncertain terms NOT to board it.
Don't listen to these dropkicks, you did your best and probably have a clear conscience.
@Larry Boles I definitely would have gotten on that boat ...... I need a NEW USED dingy ... 😁
Seriously, check for signs of life, nobody onboard, try to tow .... if it becomes a problem scuttle ... I've been towed, not that big of a deal as long as the weather/seas are good.
FYI: UNSUBSCRIBED 👎