Hobbes was the first computer game character to break my heart. I still remember sitting speachless in front of the game after I had to kill him. We spent 3 games together fighting and I trusted him all along. A epic moment for computer games.
If they were going to go the sleeper agent route, it would have been better if Cobra was the one "brainwashed" after years of being in a Slave Labor camp. And Hobbes is the one to die trying to stop her from helping Thrakkath. But that was if the sleeper agent was real, I do think Hobbes leaving cause of the destruction of his race is a better logical conclusion, as sad as it is. Also would explain Cobra's dislike of Hobbes if she is the sleeper. Inside her she knows Hobbes is a traitor to her "lord" and wants to get rid of him.
Hobbes' betrayal just felt completely sudden to me when I played on the PC. There was no buildup or payoff. Just more crap the main character had to go through.
According to Wikipedia this scene exists on the PC version, but is blocked due to a bug that prevents it from triggering, I remember this game was the first one I got for my Ps1, back then I hardly understood anything without subtitles, but I still feel sad regarding Hobbes's betrayal, he seemed so nice and innocent for a large furry guy
That's good to know. I was wondering for a good decade what reason they may have had for removing this scene from the game. A bug then, heh. Although I do find it kind of suits the story. A lack of explanation from Hobbes towards Blair makes Hobes even more malevolant: Once his fake persona was destroyed by the Kilrathi prince, he killed one of Blair's pilots then stormed off, apparently not giving the singlest of craps about what Blair thinks or about their friendship.
THANK YOU! I have been waiting to see this on youtube forever! I felt so bad for Hobbes. He didn't even know who he was for 10+ years! Even despite his loyalty to the Empire, he still felt a need to explain his actions to Blair. He even seems to regret this is the way things have to be. Rest in peace, Hobbes.
You'd think after ConFed resorted to *actually becoming the Galactic Empire* and Death Star'ing their homeworld AND another as a test subject, that'd be a damn good reason on its own for him to defect. Plays into the moral ambiguity the third and fourth game were building on. Also kinda just seems wrong that for all the amazing acting Mark Hamill puts in here, they wouldn't let Blair go "wait we're BLOWING UP THEIR HOME??? That's a bit MUCH isn't it?" It's baffling having the guy who played Luke participating in something Luke directly fought against and still portray him as the hero. Granted...the fourth game absolutely proves they really *wanna* be after all.
Hobbes defecting because they were going to genocide the Kilrathi is certainly a much better reason than the sleeper agent plot. Wish they stuck with that. As for Blair not objecting that much to destroying Kilrah, I think Tolwyn's revelation that they were losing the war took the sail out of that argument.
I think it makes more sense that he turns after knowing the Confed was going to blow up his homeworld... seriously, who still let him have security clearance and the ability to roam the ship once it was decided that they were going to destroy Kilrah. You'd have to be a total piece of shit to be okay with your new found allies annihilating your homeworld. Sleeper agent stuff seems a little too convenient and removes autonomy from the character. Kinda glad they cut it from the PC.
Agree. Him defecting to Confed because he rejected the brutality of the Kilrah Empire mad a lot of sense, but after Confed deciding to genocide his homeworld (not even the Kilrathi are as brutal as to totally destroy earth if they win), it was logical for him to defect. The "sleeper agent" plot seems like a bad retcon.
"You'd have to be a total piece of shit to be okay with your new found allies annihilating your homeworld" New found? Hobbes had been with Confed for WELL over a decade. There was nothing new found about it. He'd been with them a long long time. Thrakkath was really playing the long haul with Hobbes. It was a good addition. Pity they cut it from the PC. It made so much more sense.
@@Kai-tn4yx "not even the Kilrathi are as brutal as to totally destroy earth if they win" Yes, they are. Not 6 months before WC3 they were at Earth's doorstep and firing missiles at Earth laced with Strontium-90. It would have wiped out all life on Earth and made it uninhabitable for a very long time. If it weren't for the intervention of some very brave marines and a Kilrathi Baron Jukaga...Earth would have been toast. Read "Wing Commander: Fleet Action"
@@h6502 That's their plan, yes. Because the Kilrathi are single minded. They think destroying Earth will kill humanity because destroying Kilrah would destroy them. What they don't realize is we don't think that way. It would certainly cripple us, but it would also embolden the colonies and the war would rage on :) It's a good thing Blair was successful in bombing Kilrah or that war in that particular reality would have gone on forever.
I always had the feeling that they docked this scene because around the exact same time, there was a Babylon 5 episode that featured the exact same principle as that "identity overlay" thing.
I never liked the sleeper agent plot line. It totally would of made more sense that Hobbes betrays the humans after finding out they were going to cause the genocide of his race with the t-bomb. It would of be less cheesy and more justified... .
Yes... that's what I felt too. Behemoth put Hobbes in a difficult position. I think PC version's betrayal plot feels less like B movie or cheesy plot and more practical and realistic.
I expected a line or something. In my head, a bit about him having defected because his people slaughtered indescrimintiely, with bioweapon and claw. Now that the humans have stooped to the level of butchers, while he still regards his crewmates, as honorable warriors, and he regrets the death of cobra, he could not stand by and let apocalpse befall the innocents on kilra, even if it means sparing the emperor a fate he quite deserves. Something like that.
Ahhhh yes I remember this scene very clearly, it's definitely in the 3DO version of the game which is the one I played many times, a great version it was as well by the way.
I had this on Playstation ( which has this scene in it. ) and this was truly a heartbreaking part for me because I liked Hobbes. I still do even though he went back to fight for the Kilrathi. Too bad there wasn't a way to persuade him to come back. Thanks for sharing this video.
It made far more sense that Hobbes betrayed the Confederation when he learned they planned to destroy his homeworld. The notion that Hobbes was always a sleeper agent was just silly.
This was the hardest betrayal I experienced in gaming. After reading Freedom Flight, and flying the Secret Missions and seeing how Hobbes cared so much for Downtown, and how he felt when he died. How Hobbes started a revolt among the Kilrathi and was with me all through WCII and how he was, the best pilot to be with. To think, Stingray was right the whole time. "What if he is a double agent. Trained in chem-tank interrogation?" I wish there was another way it could have ended for Hobbes.
Well, there is. If you end up on the losing campaign path, he heroically sacrifices his life for the Terran Confederation. I know, I know, gotta lose the game to get this ending for Hobbes, but I may end up doing it on a re-run.
@@user-fg9mp5mt5x I do however like that final Mission briefing with the Captain and Radio Rollins. One of the best desperate moments of any war, is the last battle.
Actually, not all Kilrathi hated humans. Indeed, if you played WC1 and 2, you'd know of the Kilrathi on the planets Ghorah Khar, and Shar N'tanya, and another I can't quite remember. They were Kilrathi planets who rebelled agaisnt the Empire, and joined the Confederation. Presumably, they remained confederation planets even after Hobbes true-self was awakened.
I agree with you there. I like to make an analogue something like this: what if a high-ranking German officer had defected to the Allies in WW2 and then found out that they were planning to end the war by dropping a nuclear bomb in Berlin? Would that person try to go back to warn his countrymen? There is one problem in disposing of the sleeper agent explanation: then why did Hobbes spy on the closed meetings where Tolwyn explained the plan to blow up Kilrah. Still, there are ways around that.
Google... you do my head in. I'm still able to preserve my Mog alias when posting but it's such a damn chore to remember how to do so. Well whatever I guess, it's fucking ridiculous. Anyways... I just stumbled upon this pretty much game changing scene while looking at the extras on GOG. Having just ordered an X-55 to play Star Citizen with I decided to take a journey down memory lane, probably gonna end up playing all these badboys again, it's love! This scene, having just watched it for the first time has completely changed the original experience for me. In hindsight for the better because Hobbes betrayal at the time really stang from a RP perspective, we were buddies dammit! At least the sleeper agent excuse gave the cat the excuse while still allowing him to stab us in the back and still be the Hobbes we loved. He still did it, genetically he still wanted to do it but the whole experience was so conflicted for him. It makes you think, I think leaving this in the game added much more depth to his betrayal and actually made me quite chuffed when I thought how shitty the sudden turn was. Hey ho maybe I think too much into these things but this scene was awesome to watch lol!
I'm surprised no one knows the real reason this scene was cut. Sadly it was cut for cost and CD space. Origin did not want to buy the CDs with longer run time so this scene was cut to issue on more common smaller capacity CDs.Maybe one day someone with the masters can reintegrate it with the GOG version of the game
Bad Hobbes... Bad Baaaad Hobbes... I used to feel so sorry for you mopping the floor all the time... (Or whatever he was doing, it did not seem like anyone liked him at all) 😢 I guess that in one hand the way everyone treated him was justified, on the other hand he might have remained loyal to humanity if they had treated him with the kindness and respect he deserved then in the first place, as such I do not blame Hobbes for his choice, it had to be this way
you know I never realized this was cut till much later when I played the PC version. This is actually included in later cuts of the Play Station version.
I remember this scene well. Also remember it in the tie in novel. Always enjoyed how cat like I imagined their voices to sound. It was a tragedy what the movie did to the Kilrathi. They went from being an intimidating force to a laughably bad boogyman.
This is the one thing that made me hate the 3rd Wing Commander and thought of it as the worst one in the series. Why did we have to have another spy? They did that in WC2.
Kilrathi don't betray each other? What about the Planet Gorah Khar? As far as I remembered, they rebelled against the Empire and the Emperor tried to destroy them.
Indeed. The sleeper agent plot was stupid & I am glad it was cut from the version of the game I played. Made much more sense for him to be be a traitor for the reason you articulate here.
This scene certainly isn't in the DOS version. It might have been added for the Kilrathi Saga PC version, though. AFAIK, this scene was only available originally in the 3DO version of WC3. This is moronic soap opera stuff. I always imagined that Hobbes defected because he saw no honor in what happened at Goddard. I imagined he defected back because Confed was planning to do the same thing to Kilrah - and seeing that neither side had honor, he chose to support his own species.
Hobbes was far too honourable and too wise for a bullshit excuse like identity overlay - it is so easy to see good reasons for his plot, without that - so that I am really thankful they did not include this, but they should have included another message - it is just logical for Rhalgha Nar Hhallas to send a personal message to one of his oldest and best friends and one of the most respected and honourable warriors he knows.
I was actually relieved about Hobbes "switching" sides. I mean ... seriously ... what kind of shitter betrays his own people and helps destroying his homeworld?!
So the only cat-man who is nice turned out to be evil deep inside? Aw man, an entire race which hates humanity and wishes for war - that's kinda scary, lol.
Hobbes was the first computer game character to break my heart. I still remember sitting speachless in front of the game after I had to kill him. We spent 3 games together fighting and I trusted him all along. A epic moment for computer games.
Me too, Bro!
Same here.
As soon Hobbes appeared on my aim i fired all my missiles, he didnt even finish his speech.
Yeah - I remember doing that too when I saw his ship
Lol, I did that too.
I just laughed so hard at this, because we all know it’s true! (A moment to bash the keyboard as hard as you can)
Same
If they were going to go the sleeper agent route, it would have been better if Cobra was the one "brainwashed" after years of being in a Slave Labor camp. And Hobbes is the one to die trying to stop her from helping Thrakkath. But that was if the sleeper agent was real, I do think Hobbes leaving cause of the destruction of his race is a better logical conclusion, as sad as it is. Also would explain Cobra's dislike of Hobbes if she is the sleeper. Inside her she knows Hobbes is a traitor to her "lord" and wants to get rid of him.
I had this scene on my PC in 95 - I remeber it well.
I was so into this game, it was really awesome time, Mark Hamil was the right character for this interactive game
Hobbes' betrayal just felt completely sudden to me when I played on the PC. There was no buildup or payoff. Just more crap the main character had to go through.
It is foreshadowed by Cobra insisting that Kilrathi can't be trusted, though.
According to Wikipedia this scene exists on the PC version, but is blocked due to a bug that prevents it from triggering, I remember this game was the first one I got for my Ps1, back then I hardly understood anything without subtitles, but I still feel sad regarding Hobbes's betrayal, he seemed so nice and innocent for a large furry guy
That's good to know. I was wondering for a good decade what reason they may have had for removing this scene from the game. A bug then, heh.
Although I do find it kind of suits the story. A lack of explanation from Hobbes towards Blair makes Hobes even more malevolant: Once his fake persona was destroyed by the Kilrathi prince, he killed one of Blair's pilots then stormed off, apparently not giving the singlest of craps about what Blair thinks or about their friendship.
THANK YOU! I have been waiting to see this on youtube forever! I felt so bad for Hobbes. He didn't even know who he was for 10+ years! Even despite his loyalty to the Empire, he still felt a need to explain his actions to Blair. He even seems to regret this is the way things have to be. Rest in peace, Hobbes.
You'd think after ConFed resorted to *actually becoming the Galactic Empire* and Death Star'ing their homeworld AND another as a test subject, that'd be a damn good reason on its own for him to defect. Plays into the moral ambiguity the third and fourth game were building on.
Also kinda just seems wrong that for all the amazing acting Mark Hamill puts in here, they wouldn't let Blair go "wait we're BLOWING UP THEIR HOME??? That's a bit MUCH isn't it?" It's baffling having the guy who played Luke participating in something Luke directly fought against and still portray him as the hero.
Granted...the fourth game absolutely proves they really *wanna* be after all.
Hobbes defecting because they were going to genocide the Kilrathi is certainly a much better reason than the sleeper agent plot. Wish they stuck with that. As for Blair not objecting that much to destroying Kilrah, I think Tolwyn's revelation that they were losing the war took the sail out of that argument.
I think it makes more sense that he turns after knowing the Confed was going to blow up his homeworld... seriously, who still let him have security clearance and the ability to roam the ship once it was decided that they were going to destroy Kilrah. You'd have to be a total piece of shit to be okay with your new found allies annihilating your homeworld. Sleeper agent stuff seems a little too convenient and removes autonomy from the character. Kinda glad they cut it from the PC.
Agree. Him defecting to Confed because he rejected the brutality of the Kilrah Empire mad a lot of sense, but after Confed deciding to genocide his homeworld (not even the Kilrathi are as brutal as to totally destroy earth if they win), it was logical for him to defect. The "sleeper agent" plot seems like a bad retcon.
"You'd have to be a total piece of shit to be okay with your new found allies annihilating your homeworld" New found? Hobbes had been with Confed for WELL over a decade. There was nothing new found about it. He'd been with them a long long time. Thrakkath was really playing the long haul with Hobbes. It was a good addition. Pity they cut it from the PC. It made so much more sense.
@@Kai-tn4yx "not even the Kilrathi are as brutal as to totally destroy earth if they win" Yes, they are. Not 6 months before WC3 they were at Earth's doorstep and firing missiles at Earth laced with Strontium-90. It would have wiped out all life on Earth and made it uninhabitable for a very long time. If it weren't for the intervention of some very brave marines and a Kilrathi Baron Jukaga...Earth would have been toast. Read "Wing Commander: Fleet Action"
@@BinTtown
even if we skip the book, don't the kilrathi sterilise the planet in wc3 if we lose the game?
@@h6502 That's their plan, yes. Because the Kilrathi are single minded. They think destroying Earth will kill humanity because destroying Kilrah would destroy them. What they don't realize is we don't think that way. It would certainly cripple us, but it would also embolden the colonies and the war would rage on :) It's a good thing Blair was successful in bombing Kilrah or that war in that particular reality would have gone on forever.
I always had the feeling that they docked this scene because around the exact same time, there was a Babylon 5 episode that featured the exact same principle as that "identity overlay" thing.
I remember this dialog from the 3DO version
I never liked the sleeper agent plot line. It totally would of made more sense that Hobbes betrays the humans after finding out they were going to cause the genocide of his race with the t-bomb. It would of be less cheesy and more justified... .
Yeah, glad this was cut from the PC version, it's dumb as shit
I agree, it completely undoes two games' worth of the player's emotional labour of getting to trust a Kilrathi in their midst.
Yes... that's what I felt too. Behemoth put Hobbes in a difficult position. I think PC version's betrayal plot feels less like B movie or cheesy plot and more practical and realistic.
I expected a line or something. In my head, a bit about him having defected because his people slaughtered indescrimintiely, with bioweapon and claw. Now that the humans have stooped to the level of butchers, while he still regards his crewmates, as honorable warriors, and he regrets the death of cobra, he could not stand by and let apocalpse befall the innocents on kilra, even if it means sparing the emperor a fate he quite deserves. Something like that.
Maybe a part of Hobbes wanted to make sure Confed had a plan b from his guilt from Blair.
It actually was in my pc version
30 years later & i still aint forgiven this cat
Ahhhh yes I remember this scene very clearly, it's definitely in the 3DO version of the game which is the one I played many times, a great version it was as well by the way.
I had this on Playstation ( which has this scene in it. ) and this was truly a heartbreaking part for me because I liked Hobbes.
I still do even though he went back to fight for the Kilrathi. Too bad there wasn't a way to persuade him to come back.
Thanks for sharing this video.
Yes and it was even worse when you had to kill him in the final mission.
@@jimflagg4009 Yeah it was. 😞
It's so sad, Hobbes was my favourite. :((( Kilrathis look so good and they are kitties. I love kitties.
It made far more sense that Hobbes betrayed the Confederation when he learned they planned to destroy his homeworld. The notion that Hobbes was always a sleeper agent was just silly.
3DO version was the best WC3 hands down.
This is the version I played, 3DO, It was really good. 👍
This was the hardest betrayal I experienced in gaming. After reading Freedom Flight, and flying the Secret Missions and seeing how Hobbes cared so much for Downtown, and how he felt when he died. How Hobbes started a revolt among the Kilrathi and was with me all through WCII and how he was, the best pilot to be with. To think, Stingray was right the whole time. "What if he is a double agent. Trained in chem-tank interrogation?" I wish there was another way it could have ended for Hobbes.
Well, there is. If you end up on the losing campaign path, he heroically sacrifices his life for the Terran Confederation.
I know, I know, gotta lose the game to get this ending for Hobbes, but I may end up doing it on a re-run.
@@user-fg9mp5mt5x I do however like that final Mission briefing with the Captain and Radio Rollins. One of the best desperate moments of any war, is the last battle.
I had the PC version and absolutely remember this scene.
Actually, not all Kilrathi hated humans. Indeed, if you played WC1 and 2, you'd know of the Kilrathi on the planets Ghorah Khar, and Shar N'tanya, and another I can't quite remember. They were Kilrathi planets who rebelled agaisnt the Empire, and joined the Confederation. Presumably, they remained confederation planets even after Hobbes true-self was awakened.
I'm not so sure whether Hobbes or Kylo's betrayal hit Luke harder.
I've got the original CD's...and just about have a DVD drive to play them in!
You know though, he's quite posh isn't he. He should be in parliament or something!
I played this on PC CD_ROM, this scene was in game, it wasnt cut.
I agree with you there. I like to make an analogue something like this: what if a high-ranking German officer had defected to the Allies in WW2 and then found out that they were planning to end the war by dropping a nuclear bomb in Berlin? Would that person try to go back to warn his countrymen?
There is one problem in disposing of the sleeper agent explanation: then why did Hobbes spy on the closed meetings where Tolwyn explained the plan to blow up Kilrah. Still, there are ways around that.
these kilrathi pwn the movie kilrathi.. wish the movie was more like this game.. also hobbes was my favorite and still is..
I remember this scene from the Macintosh version of the game back in the 90s.
Google... you do my head in. I'm still able to preserve my Mog alias when posting but it's such a damn chore to remember how to do so. Well whatever I guess, it's fucking ridiculous.
Anyways... I just stumbled upon this pretty much game changing scene while looking at the extras on GOG. Having just ordered an X-55 to play Star Citizen with I decided to take a journey down memory lane, probably gonna end up playing all these badboys again, it's love!
This scene, having just watched it for the first time has completely changed the original experience for me. In hindsight for the better because Hobbes betrayal at the time really stang from a RP perspective, we were buddies dammit! At least the sleeper agent excuse gave the cat the excuse while still allowing him to stab us in the back and still be the Hobbes we loved. He still did it, genetically he still wanted to do it but the whole experience was so conflicted for him. It makes you think, I think leaving this in the game added much more depth to his betrayal and actually made me quite chuffed when I thought how shitty the sudden turn was. Hey ho maybe I think too much into these things but this scene was awesome to watch lol!
So is this Game still available for me after all this time? I really want it! 🥰
The PC game is easily available on GoG.com, but if you're looking for a version where the cutscene still exists I know that the 3DO is one
I never trusted him. His reason for defecting was weak.
So, did you hunt down Hobbes or not? :)
@evpstud It is also on the PSX version.
This wasn't cut out from the game, as I remember playing this bit in the story. You lot must have memory cheats.
M R Gaming: The cinematic was cut from the PC version but added to the 3DO version. I'm not sure if it was in the Playstation 1 or Mac version.
Unfortunately, the expansions are what I am missing from my collection of WC games.
I'm surprised no one knows the real reason this scene was cut. Sadly it was cut for cost and CD space. Origin did not want to buy the CDs with longer run time so this scene was cut to issue on more common smaller capacity CDs.Maybe one day someone with the masters can reintegrate it with the GOG version of the game
Bad Hobbes... Bad Baaaad Hobbes... I used to feel so sorry for you mopping the floor all the time... (Or whatever he was doing, it did not seem like anyone liked him at all) 😢 I guess that in one hand the way everyone treated him was justified, on the other hand he might have remained loyal to humanity if they had treated him with the kindness and respect he deserved then in the first place, as such I do not blame Hobbes for his choice, it had to be this way
I can't believe that this was cut. It works so much better knowing that Hobbes was programmed instead of him randomly betraying Blair.
They explain it in the game either way from what I recall. It's just not HIM saying it.
Cameras were made of potatoes and sprinkles back in the 90s
Not realy Video compression in the 90s and for Pre DVDs was hot garabage.
I dont remember this scene at all! I remember coming onto the scene and someone was down and said hobbes attacked them and fled. Interesting
you know I never realized this was cut till much later when I played the PC version. This is actually included in later cuts of the Play Station version.
I remember this scene well. Also remember it in the tie in novel. Always enjoyed how cat like I imagined their voices to sound.
It was a tragedy what the movie did to the Kilrathi. They went from being an intimidating force to a laughably bad boogyman.
@Stigmatainmypants Most likely the Kilrathi Sage package.
It was hobbes. It was hobbes
This is the one thing that made me hate the 3rd Wing Commander and thought of it as the worst one in the series. Why did we have to have another spy? They did that in WC2.
Kilrathi don't betray each other? What about the Planet Gorah Khar? As far as I remembered, they rebelled against the Empire and the Emperor tried to destroy them.
Really?
Is it the original MS-DOS version or the Kilrathi Saga one?
this was never a lost scene
I always thought his motive for defecting was convincing. Who wouldnt want to stop genocide of their own race?
Indeed. The sleeper agent plot was stupid & I am glad it was cut from the version of the game I played. Made much more sense for him to be be a traitor for the reason you articulate here.
This scene certainly isn't in the DOS version. It might have been added for the Kilrathi Saga PC version, though. AFAIK, this scene was only available originally in the 3DO version of WC3.
This is moronic soap opera stuff. I always imagined that Hobbes defected because he saw no honor in what happened at Goddard. I imagined he defected back because Confed was planning to do the same thing to Kilrah - and seeing that neither side had honor, he chose to support his own species.
I remember this part of the game.... When he betrayed me I paused it caught my breath.... Then I blew his furry ass out of the sky
I haaaated this Bs betrayal thing. It made no sense and this is a terrible reason
Poor Hobbes. This scene would have made his defection a lot easier to swallow. :(
Hobbes was far too honourable and too wise for a bullshit excuse like identity overlay - it is so easy to see good reasons for his plot, without that - so that I am really thankful they did not include this, but they should have included another message - it is just logical for Rhalgha Nar Hhallas to send a personal message to one of his oldest and best friends and one of the most respected and honourable warriors he knows.
I was actually relieved about Hobbes "switching" sides. I mean ... seriously ... what kind of shitter betrays his own people and helps destroying his homeworld?!
Such is science fiction. lol
Turns out there's alot of aliens out there who want a piece of us...
A lot.
So the only cat-man who is nice turned out to be evil deep inside? Aw man, an entire race which hates humanity and wishes for war - that's kinda scary, lol.