Hello Quelaag. The thing about the mushrooms in Elden Ring is the ''Grave Glovewort'' this plant item which have an amazing relationship with high spirits in the game and also in real life. Indeed there's a ''real '' Grave glovework flower that really exist. It is a plant that is completely white. It can grow without light, and is white because it does not have or need chlorophylle to sustain itself. Actually it is a parasitic plant that feeds of.. Mycelium... And mycellium is the body of a mushroom. The grave glovewort actually feeds of the mycellium that is growing in symbiosis with the Erdtree.
The giant flint stone pillar is located right under Raya Lucaria, so either it was founded there because of it, or it spread into the pillar from the academy. It’s also said that Liurnia is sinking, and that pillar is probably the reason it is so high up and not sunk
I just entered liurnia for the first time in a new playthrough and i was looking at all the sunken ruins and thinking "how long have they been in such disrepair"
worth mentioning that the Cleanrot Knights also seem to be afflicted by some cordyceps-esque infection, if you take a close look at their model. In the game files, the mesh for their for the fungal growths is even referred to as cordyceps. Zullie the Witch has a neat video about this. th-cam.com/video/XrjrjZ7UvLg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ZullietheWitch
This is very off topic, but since we're talking about mushrooms, I just wanted to share my idea that all the mushroom people in Dark Souls were born from Gwyn's lightning. For a long time, Japanese mushroom farmers have belived that "lightning strikes provoke plentiful harvests of mushrooms" so I can very easily imagine Miyazaki incorporating that into the mushroom people's lore. This would also explain why the gold pine resin, which is stated to be fungal in DS3, produces lightning.
More thoughts on Gowry: Gowry seems to just care about his god being unsealed! With a lot of concepts related to death being sealed away there is a desperation to restore this original order. Enia and Hyetta elude to this! Please watch my “the Elden ring keeps me up at night” video This sacrifice is one he assumes belongs to Millicent (and he cries for her / feels badly for her often) but sees her choice for independence and individuality as a tragic one as it doesn’t benefit the return to this previous era. It just allows Marikas order to persist (as destined death and rot get to continue to be sealed). But it’s a good story about a parent and a child: a parent who has the foresight of longevity and long term goals, but is also grasping for the past to be restored. And a child who has only ever lived this way, and is blossoming into her individuality and independence! You can enjoy him for being creepy rot guy!!! But I do love the natural themes of balance in this game. And I think things like order, chaos, death, birth and rot/abundance can live in harmony but the harmony has been disrupted. I love their story dearly, and it’s clear Gowry loves her. But I do think their story is more symbolic ! Ignoring the themes of natural balance and the union of opposites ignores a pretty big chunk of the game! Do I think Gowry unsealing his god is rushed? Yes! As he isn’t waiting for miquella to also finish being reborn, though this could be due to lack of foresight into understanding the Mohg kidnapping situation
“The tragic corruption of the Order has taken its toll. Across the realm, life lies in ruin. Fallen to pieces. Foul curses and misery spread, unabating.” - about marikas golden order
Thanks Quelaag for the video, it really got me thinking about morality and how the fandom relates to Elden Ring's ethical questions. I can understand the desire to push back against the anti-rot bias, but I do think you're going a bit too far here with Gowry specifically. Just because he wants a new order to replace the current broken messed up order doesn't have to mean that he's good actually, rot isn't so bad therefore doesn't have to mean Gowry himself isn't so bad. Maybe we have a different definition of good, but for me I think that a functioning healthy natural order is only morally neutral at best. On the greater fantasy scales that are being explored in these games, where questions are asked about how life and death function, human-level concepts like good and evil become almost inapplicable to those level of questions. And I think part of the message in the storytelling is that its dangerous for people to try and shape these rules of the world, since it always seems to go wrong or require atrocities. As for Gowry, I'd argue that he's specifically a really immoral character: a. he seems to possess and override the will of the pest he's inhabiting without regard for their being, even if they are dumb it's still bodysnatching and b. he asks us to betray and kill Millicent, and this is kind of my point about the danger of trying to follow any of these natural ideals while trying to remain moral. No matter how sad he say's he feels, he can't really care for Millicent if he wants her betrayed and murdered so her will is broken. He sees her only as a tool to further his goals of elevating Melania as a god of rot, and no amount of 'oh its sad tho' can give him moral justification. Its kind of a twisted 'father knows best' scenario where he believes her embracing rot and blooming is 'best' for her, regardless of her personal feelings on the matter. Where good and evil really matter are in relation to how people treat one another. I feel betraying Millicent after building up trust and companionship with her through her journey is one of the most morally depraved acts you can commit as a player in this game (maybe bested only by giving Nepheli Loux Seluvis's potion). Specifically because it's a betrayal of those small close human bonds. I'd also just like to say for the record that I love Evil in fiction, I really like Gowry, and Sellen, and Shabriri, and Mogh etc. But I want to let them be bad. They can have things that they believe in and love that are worthwhile, valuable, and beautiful as concepts without having to be justified in their actions. Can't we enjoy this mess while still recognizing it as mess, Elden Ring is beautiful and engaging but the world is really messed up and everyone is a bit of a monster. Just because one thing is bad doesn't mean that its opposition has to not be bad. Everything can be bad! :D (Except Miriel, he is completely good, too good for the lands between T.T)
Gowry seems to just care about his god being unsealed! With a lot of concepts related to death being sealed away there is a desperation to restore this original order. Enia and Hyetta elude to this! Please watch my “the Elden ring keeps me up at night” video This sacrifice is one he assumes belongs to Millicent (and he cries for her / feels badly for her often) but sees her choice for independence and individuality as a tragic one as it doesn’t benefit the balance of the natural order of things. It just allows Marikas order to persist (as destined death and rot get to continue to be sealed). But it’s a good story about a parent and a child: a parent who has the foresight of longevity and long term goals, but is also grasping for the past to be restored. And a child who has only ever lived this way, and is blossoming into her individuality and independence! You can enjoy him for being creepy rot guy!!! But I do love the natural themes of balance in this game. And I think things like order, chaos, death, birth and rot/abundance can live in harmony but the harmony has been disrupted. I love their story dearly, and it’s clear Gowry loves her. But I do think their story is more symbolic ! Ignoring the themes of natural balance and the union of opposites ignores a pretty big chunk of the game!
@@quelaag Thanks for the response, I think my discomfort comes from people wanting to find a good side to be on and relate to, while I generally see the worst in all of these characters rather than give them the benefit of the doubt. When I listen to Gowry's dialog and how his voice actor performed, I get the impression that Gowry is an inhuman being who isn't even capable of parental love as we humans experience it. Honestly I think he talks about Millicent and her sisters more like a gardener talking about his plants rather than children. His tears seem more self indulgent than actually empathetic (I'll have to lose watching Millicent, not that she will suffer) and when he says the old should be forgotten what I hear is a clear excuse obfuscating that he doesn't want his existence revealed to Millicent, he doesn't want her to see his guiding hand. In relation to his meditative pose and Melania's children being representative of eastern alchemy it makes me think of how Zen Buddhism in japan largely supported militarism in world war 2, how people can easily twist 'good' beliefs to support horrors and atrocities (again not that rot is the horror, the horror is how Millicent is used and abused). I think Miyazaki is pretty critical of eastern thought/religion as well as western. While you say its clear that he loves her, I'd say its clear he doesn't love her, he doesn't even see her as a person, what he loves is her fate, his idealized vision and version of her, her as his pet project, her as the scarlet valkyrie he wants her to become, all while blatantly refusing to see or engage with her on a personal level. Again I'd argue that harmony and balance of the natural world are only morally neutral. Nature isn't good, its amoral, uncaring and brutal but with great capacity for beauty and wonder. I'm not trying to ignore the themes, but rather say that they don't have to lead to 'Good'. I think its pretty clear that Marika is a tyrannical maniac, even if she resists the Greater Will her motivation always seems to be personal power and control. However I don't think that has to mean that things that are against her need to be any better. Volcano Manor wants to burn the Erdtree, but they are ruthless killers and torturers. The Gloam-Eyed Queen wants a new age with death, and yet seems to have created an artificial army of monstrous sadistic psychopaths in the Godskins (see Dominula skinning festival and albinauric mask) (although I suspect that the order of operations was actually Godskin apostasy first and then in response the founding of the Golden Order, Marika probably didn't mind death when it suited her crucible era, but when it was used against her then it's absolutely forbidden (also assuming the gods in question were Marika's ilk and Marika herself wasn't the Gloam-Eyed Queen). Ranni wants a distant order that can't be messed with and doesn't effect people much, and yet is willing to condemn another to soul-death without a second thought. Miquella wants his own age and tree free from control of outer forces, yet is hinted he doesn't mind manipulating and controlling other's wills through his power. I'd even argue that ancient traditions like the sacrifice of the hornless by the ancestral followers and the burning of souls by the deathbirds are pretty immoral, even if they fit into functional natural cycles. But again all these things are cool! and complex! finding balance and unity is perhaps an ideal goal in Elden Ring, but also can easily be used to justify immoral actions, and seemingly can't be realized in game by any of the storylines or in any of the endings.
I'm so excited you posted this. I just learned about white rot mushrooms in my soil science class and was gonna touch base with you about it! They break down lignin which is necessary to release certain molecular compounds back into the soil!
I didn't even know there were lords of mushrooms in the game. (I mean I literally could have just read the description of one of the best fashion options in the game.) It's such a silly idea but it makes so much sense in the context of the game. So many plant related factions, different trees, stages of growth and even fungus, and somehow the game makes it all mesh together perfectly. It's pretty crazy.
Fun thing I found recently while giving my friend a little docent tour of deeproot depths is just to the south of the nameless eternal city grace there’s a coffin you can take down the cliff that spits you out at the mouth of that waterfall in Ainsel River right before you pick up Ranni’s doll!
One interesting thing is that another place with fungus but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the scarlet rot is the area before Astel's arena just past the Grand Cloister down the coffin. I also wonder if that was the final destination of the bodies that went down the river.
I was under the impression that the Rot water flowing through the Grand Cloister and down the waterfall make their way into other various waterways downstream, albeit in a much more diluted state, as the stagnant rot water is now flowing and at some point mixes with flowing clean water, spreading the fungus that grows out of the rot but in a much less concentrated, toxic form.
If I remember correctly in the age of the Great Tree burial was performed with placing the corpses in these stone sarcophagus and let them float in the underground rivers Ainsel an Siofra. You can still see many of these empty sarcophagus in Ainsel and you could even use them and teleport to new location by specific ones. My theory is, that in early Great Tree age there was an early underground lake of rot were many of the sarcophagus and dead copses washed up and slowly becan to rot, being fully decomposed by mushrooms, and thus being recycled fully into the circle of life . I assume the god of rot evenly coexisting with the other gods frenzy ,formless blood mother , death, fire, star/moon and pagan snake cult. Maybe even the greater will - as I can not fully assume it being completely foreign of the lands between. But as the greater will send elden beast which crushed into landscape ( maybe even destroyed the Grea Tree besides Farum Azula ) and the new Golden Order emerging from the following Cruible dominating and establishing a new circle of life things were getting complicated. Rot as part of natural order got obsolete, as death was no longer existing and chosen golden order members were recycled directly by Erdtree in the age of plenty - buried in catacombs near roots and birthed by fruits on branches. Maby the age of plenty came to end because of Erdtree suffering from nutrient deficiency, as there were nor more nutrients by the mushrooms networked and basically the same gene pool of the chosen golden order people being recycled again and again.
Queelag ranting in the middle of the night with smooth persona 5 music in the background is relatable. I know the feeling of just needing to get what's rattling around in your brain its the middle of the night.
It depends right. If you mind controlled someone to do good things against their evil will, for example, are you harming anyone? I think you could argue both sides
@@quelaag as benevolent as your intentions may be I think it's basically been proven now that mind control is the *next* measure in ascending scale in terms of population control. When it's "bad for optics" to be violent, you take the mind control route. Miquella probably understood that the scale of the Erdtree's forces couldn't be quelled with his army, so he used his powers to his advantage as all the demigods do. My question is; if Mohg was "in" the pool of blood then what was he *doing* to Miquella. Maybe the reason Varré saw Mohg as a loving & caring being is because he was using Miquella as a conduit to extend the reach of his dynasty's influence. It could explain why Varré is not a fully initiated Noble and why he is distraught and confused when/if the player should defeat him at the palace.
Today was the day that I learned Gowry was a f-ing Kindred of Rot in disguise! I consider myself pretty immersed in this game's lore, and I had NO IDEA! I'm too good at blind pacifist runs in FromSoft games haha.
Call me crazy, but that north-western part of the Lake of Rot looks a lot like rice paddies. Which could go well with that agriculture/sedentary thing you skimmed over at the end there, I guess.
There is a little cathedral over there before you descend into the temple, which seems like it should be the gateway into that area. Seems like it was either cut for time or perhaps might be made accessible in the DLC.
I wonder if the Nox built the dam to preserve the Lake of Rot as the rot is likely dependent on the the water there being stagnant. The reason could have been to create a zone of rot around Raya Lucaria to prevent the enchroachment of the roots of the Erdtree. The absense of the Erdtree's roots is probably why it is so important for sorcerers to be buried at the academy, since it keeps their life essence from being gobbled up by treeroots. Their essence is allowed to sink into the earth and crystallize as purple or deep blue glintstone, which could contribute to the academy beingsuch a magical place.
I haven't watched the vid yet but I've always wanted to see/write a fungi of Soulsborne video, I think elden ring likely has the most of the series do far due to it's mass and Miyazakis expert use of natural themes so far. Love all your vids and i want to make it to your streams sometimes, keep up the great work!
Thing that should be noted about Gowry is that the man has sought to kill Miquella's Haligtree with scarlet rot. Gowry has trained and sent his daughters one by one on the journey for the explicit goal of following their "mother", so that they may bloom and kill potential next Erdtree. I don't believe Haligtree is rotten because of Malenia. We find flower blossom in Haligtree roots with traveling maiden attire, clothes only Millicent and her sisters use. Malenia is still wearing her normal battle attire and rot is still relatively contained when we meet her. Furthermore, flavor text refers Malenia having blossomed herself only twice so far and her goddess form is missing some hp, trait that we see in enemies who are diminished or not in their full potential (broken down golems, crippled Black Knife assassin). It would imply that Malenia is not yet true goddess in her full potential. Haligtree became rotten because one of Gowry's daughters arrived, and bloomed in Haligtree roots. Gowry can't take risk of new Erdtree establishing itself, if he wants cycle of death and rebirth inherit the world.
Their twin blade sword I showed suggests they were intended to live in balance! Plus, the waterfall of rot in the drainage channel becomes purified and is pure water in Malenias bossroom! Go check it out! 🙏
I don't think Gowry's _goal_ is to destroy the Haligtree. He wants Malenia to ascend as the Goddess of Rot and to provide her with Scarlet Valkyries as helpers, and Miquella with his unalloyed gold is definitely postponing all that, but the Haligtree rotting (IF it's due to the blossoms) seems more like a casualty than the main intent.
Thank you for posting this i've been lore diving and have created some Charlie Day style notes as well. I was looking around the Grand Cloister and noticed some things I thought were too out there or Farfetched. But didn't know what to make of it. So I put it aside. Until now. I didn't know that Gowry turns into a pest. This is noteworthy. I'm going to try to get a video out about the Mysteries of the Cloister soon. But the carvings on the walls of the Cloister show interesting looking people on them. They look like the Mind Flayers from Demon Souls. With tendrils coming from their face. I thought, "no, i'm crazy" and explained it away by saying its probably bearded men that look like the large Dynast sculptor. Which would be interesting in itself. And easily makes the most sense. But I kept panning back and forth between the pests and the wall carvings and couldn't get the image out of my head. So I put it aside. Because c'mon they are beards right... right? Now I'm seeing your video. Gowry turns into a pest. Seeing it live in action. Don't have to speculate anymore. This just happens. The significance of this escapes me. But I think it's rather important to know that not only Gowry turns into a pest. But this may have been common practice in the past. If I can make a cohesive video about this information i'll definitely shout you out. May just need to make a generalized mystery video and include it. Great video. Glad to have discovered you. +1sub
To clarify, the person I referred to as the "Dynast". You refer to as the "green man" or "Elden John", lol I believe Tarnished Archeologist is why I referred to the green man as such.
Regarding the mention of tree roots being connected by mushrooms and sharing nutrients, I believe it is pertinent that it is speculated by the 'narrator' in the item descriptions that the roots of the Erdtree were once connected to the roots of the Great tree, but no longer (you even mentioned that saplings can gain sustenance from older trees which describes this relationship between Erdtree and Great Tree and which gave me this eureka moment). The sealing away of the God of Rot would have hobbled the influence of the Mushroom Lords and this, combined with the removal of Destined Death provides a double whammy that cuts the Erdtree off from it's source of nutrients if we want to speculate that it was mushrooms i.e. Rot that connected the two root systems. There are two conclusions that we could draw from this. Firstly, that this is all a part of Marika's plan to bring the established order down around her own ears. Secondly, that Marika has inadvertently brought about the demise of the Erdtree in an attempt to preserve its, and her, supremacy. It all depends how you look at Marika and her actions. Personally, I go with the latter because I see Elden Ring as an allegory that explores the folly of totalitarian thinking, the delusion of control, and the inability of the totalitarian to observe the law of unforseen consequences. Believing, as they do, that they have uttered the final word on what is true and right. During the process of eliminating all rivals that may compete with her for adoration and worship Marika has pulled the rug out from under her own feet by neutralising essential, natural processes. Congratulations, Marika. You played yourself.
I never realised those beautiful golden stalks. Whether or not they are creating new life on their own, or being a vessel for the erdtree to create new life (possible with destined death sealed?), they take after the image of life in this land.
Awesome work as always, never once noticed that on their neck! For what it's worth, Gowry _can_ be killed 'for real', at the end of his and Millicent's quest when he's weeping in despair, which I think only happens when you save Millicent and she removes the needle. If you do so he dies and leaves his normal body on the ground, I think he might cry out, I don't think he has any specific death dialogue though. That said I don't think this ability to die normally is of any consequence for the theory, i.e. it doesn't preclude or otherwise suggest-against his having connections to the ancient Mushroom Lords.
For a while i named my character "mushroom secret" and would wear fia's robes when someone summoned me, and if we were in a big enough dungeon, about halfway through I'd sneak away for a second and return wearing the full mushroom set. It was always fun to see how my fellow fingers would react to learning the secret. Hahaha.
In speaking of helping plants grow, Gowry has several connections to cultivation that I've noticed. Firstly Gowry is an alternate spelling of Gowrie. Gowrie is a historic region of Scotland that was prized for its farmland, and home to many events. Given GRRM's love of Western European history I can't not see the connection. Now curiously Gowry has the same etymological roots as Godfrey. This could be more of a stretch but assuming Gowry is one of those historical Lords of Rot he could be equatable to an Elden Lord. Lastly, while there is an enormous amount of variation in Medieval peasantry outfits I've seen period farmer garb quite similar to what Gowry is wearing albeit with less material.
If the god of rot was sealed away by a Nocturnal City construction project, that would fit in pretty neatly with the general vibe of "civilization disrupting natural processes"" throughout the game.
Do we think that the pillar in the center of the lake of rot was always glintstoneish, or that it has become glintstoneish due to its proximity to raya lucaria and all that?
What are your opinions on the scorpion stinger dagger? Weird that is has a beast head on the pommel, and also weird that there are no scorpions to be seen of or really talked about in the game. I’m thinking the rot god might be a manticore or something along those lines.
I think that the dam in the night city is for the opposite pourpose remember that the rot prosper in stagnation, and flowing water it's weakness, if the serie of dams wasn't there the natural flow of the river would wash away the lake of rot itself
The only reason people think death is negative and "the end" is because they're looking at it through a self-centered egotistical lens. It's the point of a lot of religions. We need it and when people attempt to keep something alive beyond it's time things always go badly. Btw I love your work.
Rockin! I just want to share my "unhinged" theory. Gowry's meditative state is a bit misleading, I believe his limbs are useless. He is also assuredly blind. He also trained all of the valkyrie in flowing swordsmanship to defeat rot (to trigger its bloom). I believe he was Malenia's mentor, if not the original flowing swordsman who sealed the god of rot (i believe within himself). From the sealed chamber his body resides, he projects his form to do the Rot's bidding. Propagating Rot blooms across the land.
Eternal Cities building a dam to keep the Ainsel River from floating into the lake feel like a direct disruption of the flowing/still water concept. could it be that it was the Eternal City’s fault that the Rot took over the lake in the first place? I’m also curious about the waterfall by the Grand Cloister, where does it go next? cause after getting into the coffin and waking up in the Astel’s cave there’s no sign of Rot, but it has to go somewhere, right?
You might have talked about this in a previous video but the unalloyed needles used throughout the game seem to reflect pithing needles. In the past those needles were used to prepare animals for exams by inserting the needle between the base of the neck and skull severing their connection with their brain. The exact spot where the cordyceps spike reveals itself. So if Gowry was infected with the “cordyceps” that represented that influence of a rot lord then perhaps he was using the needle to prepare Millicent for a lord as well? When we use Miquella’s needle we get a somewhat generic animation but it’s clear that we use the needle to sever our connection with the frenzied flame and that the change is permanent. So a spiritual pithing at the very least. The most damning evidence however is that Pithing Needle is a somewhat (in)famous magic card. Meaning Miyazaki 100% knows about it.
I am pretty sure the primordial Glintstone is solid ozone. Okay, stay with me; 1) it can be made essentially "out of thin air" using electricity because it can be a byproduct of 'coronal discharge' from high concentrations of electricity. The clean smell from a lightning storm is ozone. It also comes out with purple light when produced from oxygen. (Coronal Discharge Method>Production tab - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#:~:text=In%20standard%20conditions%2C%20ozone%20is,finally%20a%20violet%2Dblack%20solid. ) 2) Ozone is a disinfectant which inhibits mold growth. 3) if Radahn replaced all of the void in his universe with solid ozone it would definitely keep everything in place including any rot.
THE CLOUDS ARE NOT CLOUDS!!! THEY ARE THE BOTTOM OF WAVES!!!!! I now think significant portions of the game are intended to present to particular enemies that they are on the bottom of a deep ocean. That's why there is no half cloud, half sky animations or ones where you can see moving celestial objects. Also why there are super murder ocean animals all over the place. The best predictor I've found so far is places where there are ghost jellies. I think that's why the rivers & the flow direction of the water matters. It corresponds to the sky so when we can't tell what universe we are in based off the stars, we can tell based off the direction of the water flow in relation to light source.
@@SixBeark Ozone isn't really stable enough to stick around to be mined in caves, for a start wikipedia gives its half-life time as 25 h under typical lab conditions, a boiling point of 161 K and a melting point of 81 K. Those aren't "Dark Moon cold" temperatures, the latter is almost cold enough to liquefy air! 1) Only works in low concentrations of ozone and high concentrations of regular oxygen. It doesn't _have_ to be electricity either, you need some energy source to split up oxygen molecules and if the resulting lone atoms collide with other oxygen molecules they _might_ form ozone. But if an ozone molecule gets zapped it can just as easily disintegrate again, even easier in fact as it's inherently less stable than O2. 3) Please just don't. A star-sized volume of pretty much _any_ solid would collapse under its own weight and ignite a new star, the exception being elements close to iron which will just collapse into a neutron star or a black hole instead because they can't release any more energy via nuclear reactions. Filling _the entire universe_ with solid matter would likewise cause it to collapse in on itself. Aside from just being a generic magical crystal Glintstone primarily reminds me of comets and similar space debris, some of them are almost entirely comprised of water. And while the explicit reference is "cold" all the visuals are either clearly water ice (which granted could be ambient) or at least more readily inspired by it (e.g. blue glacial ice) rather than some exotic substance which most people won't ever see even once in their life (the glow of lightning is from atomic excitation or ionisation which you can get from most substances, not a bulk effect of ozone gas). Oh and lightning of course is already claimed by the Ancient Dragons and thus tied to order and gold, while Glintstone has only minor connections to it mostly through individual people.
@@Photoloss so I got stuck up on a lot of this too initially. The thing which made me come back to it as likely correct is not that anything you said above is incorrect. Instead, how I have come to believe the lands between physics is anything but "typical lab conditions" - I think instead it is more like physics in a truly simulated & curated world where every essential element can be interchangeable.
@@Photoloss I would also distinguish between the other types of Glintstone with what gets called the primal Glintstone above the rot river. The primal Glintstone/gravity Glintstone is black purple whereas Lusats is blue black & Azur's is the current.
How old do you think Gowry actually is? Is he from Sellia or is he one of the original Mushroom Lords? His ability to manipulate the kindred seems like something beyond the ken of just a “sage” who defected from Sellia when he saw Malenia’s rise. I could totally see the mushroom lords being absorbed into a mycelial network after death so their minds can still live on within the rot or something.
I always assumed that he was an avatar for the god of rot, and when you kill him he continues speaking. From the wiki "We shall meet again, you and I. There are countless pests to choose from." (First time killing Gowry) "We shall meet again. As many times as it takes. For you to understand." (Subsequent killing at Gowry's Shack after the first) "Have you taken the lesson, now? Killing me is an exercise in futility. All is well, provided you understand. Let's just pretend it never happened, shall we?" (Dialogue after talking to him at Gowry's Shack after he has respawned)
i like how they use color for rot, maybe they took inspiration from the chakra, and you can see there are 7 boluses and maybe it relate to the 7 chakra, i think the boluses has to do something with messed up chakra in the body that cause the status effect. sahasrara ejuvenating boluses, Ajna/stimulating Bls, Visuddha/thawfrost, anahata/neutralizing, manipura/clarifying, svadhishthana/preserving and muladhara/stancing boluses. the fact that marika is radagon this is just kundalini. just my thought🤣
I remember one time someone in a twitch chat remarked on how "weird and inhuman" gowry sits. I told them its actually a meditative pose and they just said "umm no, I dont think so". Tf you mean no?? Man heard a fact and said nah I'm good.
I mean, it's kinda not too. He's not seated as in a position of meditation. He's not upright and relaxed at all. He sits forward in his chair and he's leaned back as though his spine has become rigid. Which is the behavior we see when ants infected by chordyceps prepare for the fungus to spore. They climb a tree then bite into it with their jaws. Their body becomes rigid and acts as a tiny branch for the fungus to produce a fruiting body from. Really the only thing meditative about the pose is the distinctive positioning of the hands. The rest just screams of discomfort. But of course, that's not evinced vocally because "Gowry" isn't the body but the fungus inhabiting it.
@@quelaag What mudra exactly? It's not like any I am familiar with. Nothing about that pose strikes me as being evocative of meditation. Dude is manspreading like he just collapsed into a chair after running a marathon.
*Whoa there chief* , mind control being less evil than violence, I do *not* agree with you there. This is giving me flashbacks to the Mass Effect genocide or mass mind control choice. If I was in the wrong about something, I'd wanna go down fighting not as someone's puppet.
I believe Quelaag is attempting to make a broader point about war and violence on a larger scale. I can see the moral argument of your point if viewed as an individual in a hopeless fight against an overpowering enemy. You at least might take out or least cause pain to the enemy, and that's justified because the enemy is bad. But that's not how violence works on a large scale. Large scale systematic violence doesn't just affect the combatants. It also has tragic effects on the lives of those who are adjacent to violence, such as family and the community of those who went down fighting, as well as those who have absolutely nothing to do with fight who could even die themselves as mere collateral damage. I struggle to think of anything more evil than taking the life of an innocent person. Perhaps contributing or acquiescing to the taking of an innocent life is slightly less evil, but it's evil nonetheless. Lastly, war and large scale violent conflict, especially in Elden Ring, is entirely about the powerful using other people as puppets to fight for them so they don't have to sacrifice themselves. Just because someone has convinced you to show up and risk your life in a fight for whatever it is that person is hoping to get through violence for themselves doesn't mean that you're not their puppet. Miquella used "mind control" to protect the weak and ostracized from violent genocide at the hands of the strong and powerful. Both mind control and violence involve manipulation and coercion that takes away peoples' autonomy, but someone who's more comfortable with innocent people getting hurt than having to feel "weak" because someone else told him what to do is saying that his **feelings** are more important than those peoples' **actual lives**.
@@kienesel7 No, I don't think that. I don't know you, and I have no idea what you think or feel. You didn't say anything about likes or dislikes in your post. My reply was in response to your comment about mind control being more evil than violence. Were I to guess, I'd assume you don't like either.
@@quelaag I suppose I wasn’t clear, I was referring to it being preferable to die being on the wrong side than being mind controlled into another way of thinking. I don’t advocate for stubbornness, one should always question things, but mind control is another thing entirely, it makes people into objects.
Why would the Rot infect its own loyal followers with a second mind control parasite though? The cordyceps makes sense as an artistic inspiration but given the context I'd interpret the red spikes as more of a power-up, an insignia of higher rank or just a practical tool e.g. the Rot-hivemind equivalent of a walkie-talkie. Oh and you said "organic matter cannot rot" because Death is sealed, but considering how messed up everything else is I wouldn't be surprised if living beings _can_ rot but _stay alive throughout the process._ That would also properly justify Malenia's threat of "true horror" considering you'd find this kind of messed up situation in WH40K or in Dalek sewers. Basically Erdtree Burial absorbs life and souls while skipping the entire "decomposition" stage and thus cutting the mushrooms out of the loop in the process, and present-day Scarlet Rot is just rampant decomposition with no aim or surrounding cycle to support it.
I think that’s what we’re seeing with grafting and some other elements as well with the erdtree taking on the responsibility of “rot and decay” via erdtree burials. As far as gowry controlling “witless pests” it seems to be a way for the mushroom lords to communicate without the potential of being harmed. Most of the kindred that have the fungi seem to be experiencing religious ecstasy and engage in prayer, so I’m uncertain if in this universe it means something more.
i know i am super late to this party but if anyone has been enjoying the last of us and loves scarlet rot lore i can super recommend Entangled Life by Merlin Sheldrake!! a really accessible and interesting intro to mushrooms and mycology.. great for a leaf through or a full read!
Glintstone coming from space might indicate that either a rot god came with it (giant Scorpion thing) or that glintstone came with astel crashing in. Alternatively the glintstone might be the reason for the magical settlement built above it
I thought glintstone came when the primeval sorcerers, Lusat and Azur glimpsed the primeval current. They saw a bunch of stars dying and in that same moment, it was made real for the lands between.
@@differentbutsimilar7893 as far as I understood it the founding fathers of glintstone sorcerers caused stars to fall from the sky and land in the lands between
@@Valdyr_Hrafn Mmm... and the description for the Rain of Stars spell reads " Thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery. The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land" IIRC, Sellen also describes glintstone as the amber of star energy. It's always seemed to me that Lusat and Azur were the original glintstone sorcerers, and there wasn't much, if any glintstone before the current was glimpsed.
@@differentbutsimilar7893 right sorry i didn't mean the actual stars falling. They'd destroy the planet lmao. I just interpreted the amber of stars actually coming from space. And like how literal amber traps stuff in it on earth and preserves it. These shards from the stars would've brought shards of the gods who are sometimes called stars or other celestial bodies. Astel dropping from the sky is implied. Astel creatures come from the black star, void, black hole nothingness part of space. What if this giant scorpion that was defeated a while ago dropped as a shard from the rot god? I'd be happy to hear if there's something disproving this I've not touched or thought about ER for over a month so I'm rusty
I had a long-ass comment about the lake of rot and the concept of prophecies in GRRM's books and how his ideas on the nature of prophecies might impact ER and the actions taken by certain characters, and how they might have brought about the very thing they were trying to prevent, but it was too long apparently so here's a shorter version. An example of this are the Blue Dancer aka the fairy of River Siofra and the blind swordsman sealed the god of rot, only for the lake of rot to become such a stagnant, fetid pool of rot that it surpasses any other example of rot seen elsewhere, and is in fact slowly seeping into the clean flowing waters through the Grand Cloister, spreading through the lands between via the "clean" water supplies. We know they are polluted because of the melted mushroom, which is stated to only grow in rot-corrupted lands or something similar, yet we only find it in the Siofra river areas below Nokron and the Ainsel River areas leading to Nokstella. By containing the God of Rot in the underground area below Raya Lucaria, in an act that we are lead to believe was done with the best of intentions, these 2 have paved the way for the Rot to infect the entire lands between, and bring about an age of rot so profound that the eventual age of abundance that will emerge from it will bear little to no resemblance to the past ages we see throughout the game, as their marks on the historical record look set to be completely erased, if what's left of Caelid is any indication. on a semi related note, does anyone have any thoughts on the white "trees" with the little round bulbs sticking out of their "branches" that are growing in the lake of rot? If you look closely, at their base there is a fairly large pile of bones being absorbed into it, and given their rather fleshy appearance, it almost looks like they're born from the skin and muscle of the bodies that have gathered at its base. Basically, freaky alien flesh trees that grow from mass graves that are exposed to the rot, particularly the concentrated rot found only in the lake, as I don't recall seeing these trees elsewhere, despite piles of dead bodies being a common feature in Caelid these days
I have the same problem with you that I have with preston jacobs and his asoiaf stuff in that it becomes really hard to take other people's lore analysis seriously after watching your stuff lol
Maybe you just meant the regular servants of rot, but I don't think there are any mushroom lords in the game. I think the mushroom guys in caelid are just the regular ones. I remember you talking about Gowry in your last video and how you think he's basically a good person, but while you've convinced me of rot not being evil, I don't think I'm persuaded the same is true of Gowry. I see him as more of a Gideon than a Hewg. It's true that killing Millicent doesn't do permanent damage because she'll just come back to life, but the fact that Gowry is willing to kill her and destroy her psychologically so she can become a better warrior seems pretty irredeemable to me haha.
i like the idea that the greattree dies not because of some cataclysmic event, but because the mycelium it used to feed itself was sealed away with the rot god by the blind swordsman. And the reason the age of plenty came to an end also makes sense this way - either by the grafting theory or by invoking a lack of mycelium to feed the erdtree properly.
i imagine that the enormous chunk of glintstone above the lake of rot is why sorcerers set up base in Liurnia. the glintstone could've come from a comet (or any other space rock really) that may have carried a chitinous scorpion harboring pure rot from the stinger. and that's why Liurnia's sinking; the comet likely made a crater in which the rot god could nestle, but the glintstone remained above the crater somehow (maybe the rot god used gravity magic). but it's sinking bc even after the rot god was killed, there still remained an enormous lake of rot in which it made home. rot eats at the foundations of Raya Lucaria, and Rennala just mopes in her chambers.
![GIRL IM DRUNK lets talk about Elden Ring Flowers [My dog barks really loud ASMR]](/img/n.gif)
Boy Miyazaki's take on fungus sure has evolved a lot since "adorable mushroom people living in Ash Lake"
I would die for Elizabeth
@@quelaag I would ROT for her
The whole Mushroom "lore" apparently comes from George Martin not Miyazaki. He used the same theories in Game of thrones with the Weir Trees
@@scythianking7315 Miyazaki has used mushrooms as well! There's a few different sources it could've come from! :D We wont know for certain!
Hello Quelaag. The thing about the mushrooms in Elden Ring is the ''Grave Glovewort'' this plant item which have an amazing relationship with high spirits in the game and also in real life. Indeed there's a ''real '' Grave glovework flower that really exist. It is a plant that is completely white. It can grow without light, and is white because it does not have or need chlorophylle to sustain itself. Actually it is a parasitic plant that feeds of.. Mycelium... And mycellium is the body of a mushroom. The grave glovewort actually feeds of the mycellium that is growing in symbiosis with the Erdtree.
Holy crap that's just such a nice confirmation of the erdtree network being made possible by mycelium networks
*hits blunt* haha yeah man mushrooms
Whoa this is huge
What is the name of the real life plant?
YOOOOOO. I always assumed that they were Lilly of the valley?
The giant flint stone pillar is located right under Raya Lucaria, so either it was founded there because of it, or it spread into the pillar from the academy. It’s also said that Liurnia is sinking, and that pillar is probably the reason it is so high up and not sunk
I just entered liurnia for the first time in a new playthrough and i was looking at all the sunken ruins and thinking "how long have they been in such disrepair"
Wouldn't be surprised if that's why Malenia has scarlet rot, it hitched a ride all the way back from her dad's previous marriage.
@@echidnaburger02 wow, metaphysical STDs
worth mentioning that the Cleanrot Knights also seem to be afflicted by some cordyceps-esque infection, if you take a close look at their model. In the game files, the mesh for their for the fungal growths is even referred to as cordyceps. Zullie the Witch has a neat video about this.
th-cam.com/video/XrjrjZ7UvLg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=ZullietheWitch
Yes! I assume this is because they died during the battle with Radhan and they now exist to carry Malenia back to the haligtree to safety
So cool. With your curiosity, insight, intuition, and tenacity, you would have made a world class detective, but we like you best as a Fromsoft nerd.
This is very off topic, but since we're talking about mushrooms, I just wanted to share my idea that all the mushroom people in Dark Souls were born from Gwyn's lightning.
For a long time, Japanese mushroom farmers have belived that "lightning strikes provoke plentiful harvests of mushrooms" so I can very easily imagine Miyazaki incorporating that into the mushroom people's lore.
This would also explain why the gold pine resin, which is stated to be fungal in DS3, produces lightning.
I prefer my mirror helm to the tinfoil, thank founders much.
Seems Gowry found a new host…
More thoughts on Gowry: Gowry seems to just care about his god being unsealed! With a lot of concepts related to death being sealed away there is a desperation to restore this original order. Enia and Hyetta elude to this! Please watch my “the Elden ring keeps me up at night” video
This sacrifice is one he assumes belongs to Millicent (and he cries for her / feels badly for her often) but sees her choice for independence and individuality as a tragic one as it doesn’t benefit the return to this previous era. It just allows Marikas order to persist (as destined death and rot get to continue to be sealed).
But it’s a good story about a parent and a child: a parent who has the foresight of longevity and long term goals, but is also grasping for the past to be restored. And a child who has only ever lived this way, and is blossoming into her individuality and independence!
You can enjoy him for being creepy rot guy!!! But I do love the natural themes of balance in this game. And I think things like order, chaos, death, birth and rot/abundance can live in harmony but the harmony has been disrupted.
I love their story dearly, and it’s clear Gowry loves her. But I do think their story is more symbolic ! Ignoring the themes of natural balance and the union of opposites ignores a pretty big chunk of the game!
Do I think Gowry unsealing his god is rushed? Yes! As he isn’t waiting for miquella to also finish being reborn, though this could be due to lack of foresight into understanding the Mohg kidnapping situation
“The tragic corruption of the Order has taken its toll. Across the realm, life lies in ruin. Fallen to pieces. Foul curses and misery spread, unabating.” - about marikas golden order
15:07
"We shall meet again, you and I. There are countless Queelaags to choose from."
Thanks Quelaag for the video, it really got me thinking about morality and how the fandom relates to Elden Ring's ethical questions. I can understand the desire to push back against the anti-rot bias, but I do think you're going a bit too far here with Gowry specifically. Just because he wants a new order to replace the current broken messed up order doesn't have to mean that he's good actually, rot isn't so bad therefore doesn't have to mean Gowry himself isn't so bad. Maybe we have a different definition of good, but for me I think that a functioning healthy natural order is only morally neutral at best. On the greater fantasy scales that are being explored in these games, where questions are asked about how life and death function, human-level concepts like good and evil become almost inapplicable to those level of questions. And I think part of the message in the storytelling is that its dangerous for people to try and shape these rules of the world, since it always seems to go wrong or require atrocities.
As for Gowry, I'd argue that he's specifically a really immoral character: a. he seems to possess and override the will of the pest he's inhabiting without regard for their being, even if they are dumb it's still bodysnatching and b. he asks us to betray and kill Millicent, and this is kind of my point about the danger of trying to follow any of these natural ideals while trying to remain moral. No matter how sad he say's he feels, he can't really care for Millicent if he wants her betrayed and murdered so her will is broken. He sees her only as a tool to further his goals of elevating Melania as a god of rot, and no amount of 'oh its sad tho' can give him moral justification. Its kind of a twisted 'father knows best' scenario where he believes her embracing rot and blooming is 'best' for her, regardless of her personal feelings on the matter. Where good and evil really matter are in relation to how people treat one another. I feel betraying Millicent after building up trust and companionship with her through her journey is one of the most morally depraved acts you can commit as a player in this game (maybe bested only by giving Nepheli Loux Seluvis's potion). Specifically because it's a betrayal of those small close human bonds.
I'd also just like to say for the record that I love Evil in fiction, I really like Gowry, and Sellen, and Shabriri, and Mogh etc. But I want to let them be bad. They can have things that they believe in and love that are worthwhile, valuable, and beautiful as concepts without having to be justified in their actions. Can't we enjoy this mess while still recognizing it as mess, Elden Ring is beautiful and engaging but the world is really messed up and everyone is a bit of a monster. Just because one thing is bad doesn't mean that its opposition has to not be bad. Everything can be bad! :D
(Except Miriel, he is completely good, too good for the lands between T.T)
Gowry seems to just care about his god being unsealed! With a lot of concepts related to death being sealed away there is a desperation to restore this original order. Enia and Hyetta elude to this! Please watch my “the Elden ring keeps me up at night” video
This sacrifice is one he assumes belongs to Millicent (and he cries for her / feels badly for her often) but sees her choice for independence and individuality as a tragic one as it doesn’t benefit the balance of the natural order of things. It just allows Marikas order to persist (as destined death and rot get to continue to be sealed).
But it’s a good story about a parent and a child: a parent who has the foresight of longevity and long term goals, but is also grasping for the past to be restored. And a child who has only ever lived this way, and is blossoming into her individuality and independence!
You can enjoy him for being creepy rot guy!!! But I do love the natural themes of balance in this game. And I think things like order, chaos, death, birth and rot/abundance can live in harmony but the harmony has been disrupted.
I love their story dearly, and it’s clear Gowry loves her. But I do think their story is more symbolic ! Ignoring the themes of natural balance and the union of opposites ignores a pretty big chunk of the game!
@@quelaag Thanks for the response, I think my discomfort comes from people wanting to find a good side to be on and relate to, while I generally see the worst in all of these characters rather than give them the benefit of the doubt. When I listen to Gowry's dialog and how his voice actor performed, I get the impression that Gowry is an inhuman being who isn't even capable of parental love as we humans experience it. Honestly I think he talks about Millicent and her sisters more like a gardener talking about his plants rather than children. His tears seem more self indulgent than actually empathetic (I'll have to lose watching Millicent, not that she will suffer) and when he says the old should be forgotten what I hear is a clear excuse obfuscating that he doesn't want his existence revealed to Millicent, he doesn't want her to see his guiding hand. In relation to his meditative pose and Melania's children being representative of eastern alchemy it makes me think of how Zen Buddhism in japan largely supported militarism in world war 2, how people can easily twist 'good' beliefs to support horrors and atrocities (again not that rot is the horror, the horror is how Millicent is used and abused). I think Miyazaki is pretty critical of eastern thought/religion as well as western. While you say its clear that he loves her, I'd say its clear he doesn't love her, he doesn't even see her as a person, what he loves is her fate, his idealized vision and version of her, her as his pet project, her as the scarlet valkyrie he wants her to become, all while blatantly refusing to see or engage with her on a personal level.
Again I'd argue that harmony and balance of the natural world are only morally neutral. Nature isn't good, its amoral, uncaring and brutal but with great capacity for beauty and wonder. I'm not trying to ignore the themes, but rather say that they don't have to lead to 'Good'.
I think its pretty clear that Marika is a tyrannical maniac, even if she resists the Greater Will her motivation always seems to be personal power and control. However I don't think that has to mean that things that are against her need to be any better. Volcano Manor wants to burn the Erdtree, but they are ruthless killers and torturers. The Gloam-Eyed Queen wants a new age with death, and yet seems to have created an artificial army of monstrous sadistic psychopaths in the Godskins (see Dominula skinning festival and albinauric mask) (although I suspect that the order of operations was actually Godskin apostasy first and then in response the founding of the Golden Order, Marika probably didn't mind death when it suited her crucible era, but when it was used against her then it's absolutely forbidden (also assuming the gods in question were Marika's ilk and Marika herself wasn't the Gloam-Eyed Queen). Ranni wants a distant order that can't be messed with and doesn't effect people much, and yet is willing to condemn another to soul-death without a second thought. Miquella wants his own age and tree free from control of outer forces, yet is hinted he doesn't mind manipulating and controlling other's wills through his power. I'd even argue that ancient traditions like the sacrifice of the hornless by the ancestral followers and the burning of souls by the deathbirds are pretty immoral, even if they fit into functional natural cycles.
But again all these things are cool! and complex! finding balance and unity is perhaps an ideal goal in Elden Ring, but also can easily be used to justify immoral actions, and seemingly can't be realized in game by any of the storylines or in any of the endings.
I'm so excited you posted this. I just learned about white rot mushrooms in my soil science class and was gonna touch base with you about it! They break down lignin which is necessary to release certain molecular compounds back into the soil!
I didn't even know there were lords of mushrooms in the game. (I mean I literally could have just read the description of one of the best fashion options in the game.) It's such a silly idea but it makes so much sense in the context of the game. So many plant related factions, different trees, stages of growth and even fungus, and somehow the game makes it all mesh together perfectly. It's pretty crazy.
Fun thing I found recently while giving my friend a little docent tour of deeproot depths is just to the south of the nameless eternal city grace there’s a coffin you can take down the cliff that spits you out at the mouth of that waterfall in Ainsel River right before you pick up Ranni’s doll!
One interesting thing is that another place with fungus but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the scarlet rot is the area before Astel's arena just past the Grand Cloister down the coffin. I also wonder if that was the final destination of the bodies that went down the river.
It may have to do with the scorpion god who was sealed down there! Which is how malenia inherited that power?
I was under the impression that the Rot water flowing through the Grand Cloister and down the waterfall make their way into other various waterways downstream, albeit in a much more diluted state, as the stagnant rot water is now flowing and at some point mixes with flowing clean water, spreading the fungus that grows out of the rot but in a much less concentrated, toxic form.
The unreachable section of the Lake of Rot always looked like rice terraces to me, so the connection with agriculture makes sense to me.
If I remember correctly in the age of the Great Tree burial was performed with placing the corpses in these stone sarcophagus and let them float in the underground rivers Ainsel an Siofra. You can still see many of these empty sarcophagus in Ainsel and you could even use them and teleport to new location by specific ones. My theory is, that in early Great Tree age there was an early underground lake of rot were many of the sarcophagus and dead copses washed up and slowly becan to rot, being fully decomposed by mushrooms, and thus being recycled fully into the circle of life . I assume the god of rot evenly coexisting with the other gods frenzy ,formless blood mother , death, fire, star/moon and pagan snake cult. Maybe even the greater will - as I can not fully assume it being completely foreign of the lands between. But as the greater will send elden beast which crushed into landscape ( maybe even destroyed the Grea Tree besides Farum Azula ) and the new Golden Order emerging from the following Cruible dominating and establishing a new circle of life things were getting complicated. Rot as part of natural order got obsolete, as death was no longer existing and chosen golden order members were recycled directly by Erdtree in the age of plenty - buried in catacombs near roots and birthed by fruits on branches. Maby the age of plenty came to end because of Erdtree suffering from nutrient deficiency, as there were nor more nutrients by the mushrooms networked and basically the same gene pool of the chosen golden order people being recycled again and again.
You're a real G, Quelaag! The shorts are just as strong as the longs.
Queelag ranting in the middle of the night with smooth persona 5 music in the background is relatable. I know the feeling of just needing to get what's rattling around in your brain its the middle of the night.
Yes! I wanted this video for so long and you actually made it
"mind control is a lesser evil than violence"
hot take to say the least
It depends right. If you mind controlled someone to do good things against their evil will, for example, are you harming anyone? I think you could argue both sides
@@schnoz2372 id rather mind control someone to get some tea and chill out then kill them but that’s just my OPINIONNNNNNNN
@@quelaag as benevolent as your intentions may be I think it's basically been proven now that mind control is the *next* measure in ascending scale in terms of population control. When it's "bad for optics" to be violent, you take the mind control route.
Miquella probably understood that the scale of the Erdtree's forces couldn't be quelled with his army, so he used his powers to his advantage as all the demigods do.
My question is; if Mohg was "in" the pool of blood then what was he *doing* to Miquella. Maybe the reason Varré saw Mohg as a loving & caring being is because he was using Miquella as a conduit to extend the reach of his dynasty's influence. It could explain why Varré is not a fully initiated Noble and why he is distraught and confused when/if the player should defeat him at the palace.
@@quelaag Oh come on now. You gave THE most extreme example of Violence, and THE most benign example of Mind control lol.
Today was the day that I learned Gowry was a f-ing Kindred of Rot in disguise! I consider myself pretty immersed in this game's lore, and I had NO IDEA! I'm too good at blind pacifist runs in FromSoft games haha.
This is great lore info. I love the chill Persona 5 music in the background too!
Call me crazy, but that north-western part of the Lake of Rot looks a lot like rice paddies. Which could go well with that agriculture/sedentary thing you skimmed over at the end there, I guess.
Agreed! They look intriguing
There is a little cathedral over there before you descend into the temple, which seems like it should be the gateway into that area. Seems like it was either cut for time or perhaps might be made accessible in the DLC.
Inside the moon lives the high priest of the Mushroom Cult.
WOOO MUSHROOM LORD WOOOO
I wonder if the Nox built the dam to preserve the Lake of Rot as the rot is likely dependent on the the water there being stagnant. The reason could have been to create a zone of rot around Raya Lucaria to prevent the enchroachment of the roots of the Erdtree. The absense of the Erdtree's roots is probably why it is so important for sorcerers to be buried at the academy, since it keeps their life essence from being gobbled up by treeroots. Their essence is allowed to sink into the earth and crystallize as purple or deep blue glintstone, which could contribute to the academy beingsuch a magical place.
SHROOM LOOOOOOOOOOORRRREEE!!!!🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
Mushrooms are so cool and have so many ways to help humans when it comes to anxiety and illness. We stan mushrooms 🍄
ANOTHER BANGER
I haven't watched the vid yet but I've always wanted to see/write a fungi of Soulsborne video, I think elden ring likely has the most of the series do far due to it's mass and Miyazakis expert use of natural themes so far.
Love all your vids and i want to make it to your streams sometimes, keep up the great work!
Thing that should be noted about Gowry is that the man has sought to kill Miquella's Haligtree with scarlet rot.
Gowry has trained and sent his daughters one by one on the journey for the explicit goal of following their "mother", so that they may bloom and kill potential next Erdtree.
I don't believe Haligtree is rotten because of Malenia. We find flower blossom in Haligtree roots with traveling maiden attire, clothes only Millicent and her sisters use. Malenia is still wearing her normal battle attire and rot is still relatively contained when we meet her.
Furthermore, flavor text refers Malenia having blossomed herself only twice so far and her goddess form is missing some hp, trait that we see in enemies who are diminished or not in their full potential (broken down golems, crippled Black Knife assassin).
It would imply that Malenia is not yet true goddess in her full potential.
Haligtree became rotten because one of Gowry's daughters arrived, and bloomed in Haligtree roots. Gowry can't take risk of new Erdtree establishing itself, if he wants cycle of death and rebirth inherit the world.
Their twin blade sword I showed suggests they were intended to live in balance! Plus, the waterfall of rot in the drainage channel becomes purified and is pure water in Malenias bossroom! Go check it out! 🙏
I don't think Gowry's _goal_ is to destroy the Haligtree.
He wants Malenia to ascend as the Goddess of Rot and to provide her with Scarlet Valkyries as helpers, and Miquella with his unalloyed gold is definitely postponing all that, but the Haligtree rotting (IF it's due to the blossoms) seems more like a casualty than the main intent.
I got distracted vibing to the persona music in the BG 😭😭
i love your energy and passion in videos
Thank you for posting this i've been lore diving and have created some Charlie Day style notes as well.
I was looking around the Grand Cloister and noticed some things I thought were too out there or Farfetched.
But didn't know what to make of it.
So I put it aside.
Until now. I didn't know that Gowry turns into a pest.
This is noteworthy. I'm going to try to get a video out about the Mysteries of the Cloister soon.
But the carvings on the walls of the Cloister show interesting looking people on them.
They look like the Mind Flayers from Demon Souls.
With tendrils coming from their face.
I thought, "no, i'm crazy" and explained it away by saying its probably bearded men that look like the large Dynast sculptor.
Which would be interesting in itself. And easily makes the most sense.
But I kept panning back and forth between the pests and the wall carvings and couldn't get the image out of my head.
So I put it aside. Because c'mon they are beards right... right?
Now I'm seeing your video. Gowry turns into a pest. Seeing it live in action. Don't have to speculate anymore. This just happens.
The significance of this escapes me. But I think it's rather important to know that not only Gowry turns into a pest.
But this may have been common practice in the past.
If I can make a cohesive video about this information i'll definitely shout you out.
May just need to make a generalized mystery video and include it.
Great video. Glad to have discovered you. +1sub
To clarify, the person I referred to as the "Dynast". You refer to as the "green man" or "Elden John", lol
I believe Tarnished Archeologist is why I referred to the green man as such.
Regarding the mention of tree roots being connected by mushrooms and sharing nutrients, I believe it is pertinent that it is speculated by the 'narrator' in the item descriptions that the roots of the Erdtree were once connected to the roots of the Great tree, but no longer (you even mentioned that saplings can gain sustenance from older trees which describes this relationship between Erdtree and Great Tree and which gave me this eureka moment). The sealing away of the God of Rot would have hobbled the influence of the Mushroom Lords and this, combined with the removal of Destined Death provides a double whammy that cuts the Erdtree off from it's source of nutrients if we want to speculate that it was mushrooms i.e. Rot that connected the two root systems.
There are two conclusions that we could draw from this. Firstly, that this is all a part of Marika's plan to bring the established order down around her own ears. Secondly, that Marika has inadvertently brought about the demise of the Erdtree in an attempt to preserve its, and her, supremacy. It all depends how you look at Marika and her actions.
Personally, I go with the latter because I see Elden Ring as an allegory that explores the folly of totalitarian thinking, the delusion of control, and the inability of the totalitarian to observe the law of unforseen consequences. Believing, as they do, that they have uttered the final word on what is true and right. During the process of eliminating all rivals that may compete with her for adoration and worship Marika has pulled the rug out from under her own feet by neutralising essential, natural processes.
Congratulations, Marika. You played yourself.
ty for putting this up together, super interesting
I never realised those beautiful golden stalks. Whether or not they are creating new life on their own, or being a vessel for the erdtree to create new life (possible with destined death sealed?), they take after the image of life in this land.
in SOIAF the greenseer takes over animals, and is embedded into a tree network when we finally find his real body
Awesome work as always, never once noticed that on their neck!
For what it's worth, Gowry _can_ be killed 'for real', at the end of his and Millicent's quest when he's weeping in despair, which I think only happens when you save Millicent and she removes the needle. If you do so he dies and leaves his normal body on the ground, I think he might cry out, I don't think he has any specific death dialogue though. That said I don't think this ability to die normally is of any consequence for the theory, i.e. it doesn't preclude or otherwise suggest-against his having connections to the ancient Mushroom Lords.
Amazing thumbnails as always
I love when the screen is incomprehensible
What people think cordyceps would look like in humans: *Last of us shit*
What it'd really look like: jock itch
For a while i named my character "mushroom secret" and would wear fia's robes when someone summoned me, and if we were in a big enough dungeon, about halfway through I'd sneak away for a second and return wearing the full mushroom set. It was always fun to see how my fellow fingers would react to learning the secret. Hahaha.
In speaking of helping plants grow, Gowry has several connections to cultivation that I've noticed. Firstly Gowry is an alternate spelling of Gowrie. Gowrie is a historic region of Scotland that was prized for its farmland, and home to many events. Given GRRM's love of Western European history I can't not see the connection. Now curiously Gowry has the same etymological roots as Godfrey. This could be more of a stretch but assuming Gowry is one of those historical Lords of Rot he could be equatable to an Elden Lord. Lastly, while there is an enormous amount of variation in Medieval peasantry outfits I've seen period farmer garb quite similar to what Gowry is wearing albeit with less material.
Excellent work! You love to see it
If the god of rot was sealed away by a Nocturnal City construction project, that would fit in pretty neatly with the general vibe of "civilization disrupting natural processes"" throughout the game.
Do we think that the pillar in the center of the lake of rot was always glintstoneish, or that it has become glintstoneish due to its proximity to raya lucaria and all that?
It is specifically primordial glintstone and I think are tied to the crystalians though I’m uncertain how it got there. If it’s a meteorite, or what
@@quelaag I'm curious, is there other primordial glintstone in the game? This is the first time I've heard of it.
@@quelaag Maybe it was a byproduct of Astel's crashing and landing
What are your opinions on the scorpion stinger dagger? Weird that is has a beast head on the pommel, and also weird that there are no scorpions to be seen of or really talked about in the game. I’m thinking the rot god might be a manticore or something along those lines.
It is noteworthy that there are no scorpions, yet there is a shield depicting a scorpion.
I think that the dam in the night city is for the opposite pourpose
remember that the rot prosper in stagnation, and flowing water it's weakness, if the serie of dams wasn't there the natural flow of the river would wash away the lake of rot itself
Queelag the Lore Lord!
The Pepe Sylvia reference had me rolling
omg your whiteboard of madness i love it. Would you one day release it?
Blursed pic of Toad😂
The Rot design is beautifully disgusting in this game. It's almost as if Gowry is a Sheppard for the buds that bloom from those who have Rotted.
Take that hat with you. Trust me, it grows on ya. Literally.
The only reason people think death is negative and "the end" is because they're looking at it through a self-centered egotistical lens. It's the point of a lot of religions. We need it and when people attempt to keep something alive beyond it's time things always go badly. Btw I love your work.
Some people pay extra for burping
Accidently hit the worse button and killed him, I felt bad and then he turned. I was surprised.
11:37 Almond Borns = Omen Bairns?
Rockin!
I just want to share my "unhinged" theory. Gowry's meditative state is a bit misleading, I believe his limbs are useless. He is also assuredly blind. He also trained all of the valkyrie in flowing swordsmanship to defeat rot (to trigger its bloom). I believe he was Malenia's mentor, if not the original flowing swordsman who sealed the god of rot (i believe within himself). From the sealed chamber his body resides, he projects his form to do the Rot's bidding. Propagating Rot blooms across the land.
Eternal Cities building a dam to keep the Ainsel River from floating into the lake feel like a direct disruption of the flowing/still water concept. could it be that it was the Eternal City’s fault that the Rot took over the lake in the first place?
I’m also curious about the waterfall by the Grand Cloister, where does it go next? cause after getting into the coffin and waking up in the Astel’s cave there’s no sign of Rot, but it has to go somewhere, right?
Premature rot is when you have mycosis
FUCK YES QUELAAG. LETS FUKIN GOOOOOOO
You might have talked about this in a previous video but the unalloyed needles used throughout the game seem to reflect pithing needles.
In the past those needles were used to prepare animals for exams by inserting the needle between the base of the neck and skull severing their connection with their brain. The exact spot where the cordyceps spike reveals itself.
So if Gowry was infected with the “cordyceps” that represented that influence of a rot lord then perhaps he was using the needle to prepare Millicent for a lord as well?
When we use Miquella’s needle we get a somewhat generic animation but it’s clear that we use the needle to sever our connection with the frenzied flame and that the change is permanent. So a spiritual pithing at the very least.
The most damning evidence however is that Pithing Needle is a somewhat (in)famous magic card. Meaning Miyazaki 100% knows about it.
Great video & analysis as always!
I am pretty sure the primordial Glintstone is solid ozone. Okay, stay with me;
1) it can be made essentially "out of thin air" using electricity because it can be a byproduct of 'coronal discharge' from high concentrations of electricity. The clean smell from a lightning storm is ozone. It also comes out with purple light when produced from oxygen. (Coronal Discharge Method>Production tab - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#:~:text=In%20standard%20conditions%2C%20ozone%20is,finally%20a%20violet%2Dblack%20solid. )
2) Ozone is a disinfectant which inhibits mold growth.
3) if Radahn replaced all of the void in his universe with solid ozone it would definitely keep everything in place including any rot.
THE CLOUDS ARE NOT CLOUDS!!! THEY ARE THE BOTTOM OF WAVES!!!!! I now think significant portions of the game are intended to present to particular enemies that they are on the bottom of a deep ocean. That's why there is no half cloud, half sky animations or ones where you can see moving celestial objects. Also why there are super murder ocean animals all over the place. The best predictor I've found so far is places where there are ghost jellies. I think that's why the rivers & the flow direction of the water matters. It corresponds to the sky so when we can't tell what universe we are in based off the stars, we can tell based off the direction of the water flow in relation to light source.
@@SixBeark Ozone isn't really stable enough to stick around to be mined in caves, for a start wikipedia gives its half-life time as 25 h under typical lab conditions, a boiling point of 161 K and a melting point of 81 K. Those aren't "Dark Moon cold" temperatures, the latter is almost cold enough to liquefy air!
1) Only works in low concentrations of ozone and high concentrations of regular oxygen. It doesn't _have_ to be electricity either, you need some energy source to split up oxygen molecules and if the resulting lone atoms collide with other oxygen molecules they _might_ form ozone. But if an ozone molecule gets zapped it can just as easily disintegrate again, even easier in fact as it's inherently less stable than O2.
3) Please just don't. A star-sized volume of pretty much _any_ solid would collapse under its own weight and ignite a new star, the exception being elements close to iron which will just collapse into a neutron star or a black hole instead because they can't release any more energy via nuclear reactions. Filling _the entire universe_ with solid matter would likewise cause it to collapse in on itself.
Aside from just being a generic magical crystal Glintstone primarily reminds me of comets and similar space debris, some of them are almost entirely comprised of water. And while the explicit reference is "cold" all the visuals are either clearly water ice (which granted could be ambient) or at least more readily inspired by it (e.g. blue glacial ice) rather than some exotic substance which most people won't ever see even once in their life (the glow of lightning is from atomic excitation or ionisation which you can get from most substances, not a bulk effect of ozone gas). Oh and lightning of course is already claimed by the Ancient Dragons and thus tied to order and gold, while Glintstone has only minor connections to it mostly through individual people.
@@Photoloss so I got stuck up on a lot of this too initially. The thing which made me come back to it as likely correct is not that anything you said above is incorrect. Instead, how I have come to believe the lands between physics is anything but "typical lab conditions" - I think instead it is more like physics in a truly simulated & curated world where every essential element can be interchangeable.
@@Photoloss I would also distinguish between the other types of Glintstone with what gets called the primal Glintstone above the rot river. The primal Glintstone/gravity Glintstone is black purple whereas Lusats is blue black & Azur's is the current.
Souls like dog enemies keep me up at night.
Have you heard of the Elden Ring Mushroom Theory?
How old do you think Gowry actually is? Is he from Sellia or is he one of the original Mushroom Lords? His ability to manipulate the kindred seems like something beyond the ken of just a “sage” who defected from Sellia when he saw Malenia’s rise. I could totally see the mushroom lords being absorbed into a mycelial network after death so their minds can still live on within the rot or something.
I always assumed that he was an avatar for the god of rot, and when you kill him he continues speaking.
From the wiki "We shall meet again, you and I. There are countless pests to choose from." (First time killing Gowry)
"We shall meet again. As many times as it takes. For you to understand." (Subsequent killing at Gowry's Shack after the first)
"Have you taken the lesson, now? Killing me is an exercise in futility. All is well, provided you understand. Let's just pretend it never happened, shall we?" (Dialogue after talking to him at Gowry's Shack after he has respawned)
I think he’s a worshiper of the original rot god!
mama mia
here i go again
how can i resist spaget
This is very intelligent
i like how they use color for rot, maybe they took inspiration from the chakra, and you can see there are 7 boluses and maybe it relate to the 7 chakra, i think the boluses has to do something with messed up chakra in the body that cause the status effect. sahasrara
ejuvenating boluses, Ajna/stimulating Bls, Visuddha/thawfrost, anahata/neutralizing, manipura/clarifying, svadhishthana/preserving and muladhara/stancing boluses. the fact that marika is radagon this is just kundalini. just my thought🤣
I'm here for elden john
I remember one time someone in a twitch chat remarked on how "weird and inhuman" gowry sits. I told them its actually a meditative pose and they just said "umm no, I dont think so". Tf you mean no?? Man heard a fact and said nah I'm good.
I mean, it's kinda not too.
He's not seated as in a position of meditation. He's not upright and relaxed at all. He sits forward in his chair and he's leaned back as though his spine has become rigid.
Which is the behavior we see when ants infected by chordyceps prepare for the fungus to spore. They climb a tree then bite into it with their jaws. Their body becomes rigid and acts as a tiny branch for the fungus to produce a fruiting body from.
Really the only thing meditative about the pose is the distinctive positioning of the hands. The rest just screams of discomfort. But of course, that's not evinced vocally because "Gowry" isn't the body but the fungus inhabiting it.
@@rainbowkrampus that’s not true haha he is leaned backwards in his chair with his palms up toward the sky - that is a mudra.
@@quelaag What mudra exactly? It's not like any I am familiar with. Nothing about that pose strikes me as being evocative of meditation. Dude is manspreading like he just collapsed into a chair after running a marathon.
Good job you!
*Whoa there chief* , mind control being less evil than violence, I do *not* agree with you there. This is giving me flashbacks to the Mass Effect genocide or mass mind control choice. If I was in the wrong about something, I'd wanna go down fighting not as someone's puppet.
I believe Quelaag is attempting to make a broader point about war and violence on a larger scale. I can see the moral argument of your point if viewed as an individual in a hopeless fight against an overpowering enemy. You at least might take out or least cause pain to the enemy, and that's justified because the enemy is bad.
But that's not how violence works on a large scale. Large scale systematic violence doesn't just affect the combatants. It also has tragic effects on the lives of those who are adjacent to violence, such as family and the community of those who went down fighting, as well as those who have absolutely nothing to do with fight who could even die themselves as mere collateral damage. I struggle to think of anything more evil than taking the life of an innocent person. Perhaps contributing or acquiescing to the taking of an innocent life is slightly less evil, but it's evil nonetheless.
Lastly, war and large scale violent conflict, especially in Elden Ring, is entirely about the powerful using other people as puppets to fight for them so they don't have to sacrifice themselves. Just because someone has convinced you to show up and risk your life in a fight for whatever it is that person is hoping to get through violence for themselves doesn't mean that you're not their puppet. Miquella used "mind control" to protect the weak and ostracized from violent genocide at the hands of the strong and powerful. Both mind control and violence involve manipulation and coercion that takes away peoples' autonomy, but someone who's more comfortable with innocent people getting hurt than having to feel "weak" because someone else told him what to do is saying that his **feelings** are more important than those peoples' **actual lives**.
@@calyx_datura This dude really thinking the reason I dont like mind control is cuss I might feel emasculated if a mushroom takes over my brain.
@@kienesel7 No, I don't think that. I don't know you, and I have no idea what you think or feel. You didn't say anything about likes or dislikes in your post. My reply was in response to your comment about mind control being more evil than violence. Were I to guess, I'd assume you don't like either.
I’m not even referring to fighting here lmao. Gowry’s pest simply sits in a chair.
@@quelaag I suppose I wasn’t clear, I was referring to it being preferable to die being on the wrong side than being mind controlled into another way of thinking. I don’t advocate for stubbornness, one should always question things, but mind control is another thing entirely, it makes people into objects.
Why would the Rot infect its own loyal followers with a second mind control parasite though? The cordyceps makes sense as an artistic inspiration but given the context I'd interpret the red spikes as more of a power-up, an insignia of higher rank or just a practical tool e.g. the Rot-hivemind equivalent of a walkie-talkie.
Oh and you said "organic matter cannot rot" because Death is sealed, but considering how messed up everything else is I wouldn't be surprised if living beings _can_ rot but _stay alive throughout the process._ That would also properly justify Malenia's threat of "true horror" considering you'd find this kind of messed up situation in WH40K or in Dalek sewers. Basically Erdtree Burial absorbs life and souls while skipping the entire "decomposition" stage and thus cutting the mushrooms out of the loop in the process, and present-day Scarlet Rot is just rampant decomposition with no aim or surrounding cycle to support it.
I think that’s what we’re seeing with grafting and some other elements as well with the erdtree taking on the responsibility of “rot and decay” via erdtree burials.
As far as gowry controlling “witless pests” it seems to be a way for the mushroom lords to communicate without the potential of being harmed. Most of the kindred that have the fungi seem to be experiencing religious ecstasy and engage in prayer, so I’m uncertain if in this universe it means something more.
for me its the patterns, but mshroom lords r also cool ♡(´｡•ㅅ•｡`)
yes Yes YES
YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>She *just* found out about cordyceps
soo coool :)
Shroomborne
Quelaag, you need to actually sleep
i know i am super late to this party but if anyone has been enjoying the last of us and loves scarlet rot lore i can super recommend Entangled Life by Merlin Sheldrake!! a really accessible and interesting intro to mushrooms and mycology.. great for a leaf through or a full read!
Glintstone coming from space might indicate that either a rot god came with it (giant Scorpion thing) or that glintstone came with astel crashing in.
Alternatively the glintstone might be the reason for the magical settlement built above it
I thought glintstone came when the primeval sorcerers, Lusat and Azur glimpsed the primeval current. They saw a bunch of stars dying and in that same moment, it was made real for the lands between.
@@differentbutsimilar7893 as far as I understood it the founding fathers of glintstone sorcerers caused stars to fall from the sky and land in the lands between
@@Valdyr_Hrafn Mmm... and the description for the Rain of Stars spell reads " Thought to be the founding glintstone sorcery. The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land"
IIRC, Sellen also describes glintstone as the amber of star energy.
It's always seemed to me that Lusat and Azur were the original glintstone sorcerers, and there wasn't much, if any glintstone before the current was glimpsed.
@@differentbutsimilar7893 right sorry i didn't mean the actual stars falling. They'd destroy the planet lmao.
I just interpreted the amber of stars actually coming from space. And like how literal amber traps stuff in it on earth and preserves it. These shards from the stars would've brought shards of the gods who are sometimes called stars or other celestial bodies.
Astel dropping from the sky is implied. Astel creatures come from the black star, void, black hole nothingness part of space.
What if this giant scorpion that was defeated a while ago dropped as a shard from the rot god?
I'd be happy to hear if there's something disproving this I've not touched or thought about ER for over a month so I'm rusty
Miquella did what now?
So what you're saying is.... You're Gowry.
hiii :p
A fifteen minute video? Only 15 minutes? Are you quite well Ms. Laag?
I’ve been so busy with streams and art and everything !!!!
Everything keeps you up at night, do you even sleep?
What website do you make your connection boards on
Miro
Can I be your little mushroom boi? 🍄
the giant formation in the lake of rot is the foundation of the Raya Lucaria Academy. like it is literally built right on top of it.
What software is she using to create these info boards?
I had a long-ass comment about the lake of rot and the concept of prophecies in GRRM's books and how his ideas on the nature of prophecies might impact ER and the actions taken by certain characters, and how they might have brought about the very thing they were trying to prevent, but it was too long apparently so here's a shorter version. An example of this are the Blue Dancer aka the fairy of River Siofra and the blind swordsman sealed the god of rot, only for the lake of rot to become such a stagnant, fetid pool of rot that it surpasses any other example of rot seen elsewhere, and is in fact slowly seeping into the clean flowing waters through the Grand Cloister, spreading through the lands between via the "clean" water supplies. We know they are polluted because of the melted mushroom, which is stated to only grow in rot-corrupted lands or something similar, yet we only find it in the Siofra river areas below Nokron and the Ainsel River areas leading to Nokstella. By containing the God of Rot in the underground area below Raya Lucaria, in an act that we are lead to believe was done with the best of intentions, these 2 have paved the way for the Rot to infect the entire lands between, and bring about an age of rot so profound that the eventual age of abundance that will emerge from it will bear little to no resemblance to the past ages we see throughout the game, as their marks on the historical record look set to be completely erased, if what's left of Caelid is any indication.
on a semi related note, does anyone have any thoughts on the white "trees" with the little round bulbs sticking out of their "branches" that are growing in the lake of rot? If you look closely, at their base there is a fairly large pile of bones being absorbed into it, and given their rather fleshy appearance, it almost looks like they're born from the skin and muscle of the bodies that have gathered at its base. Basically, freaky alien flesh trees that grow from mass graves that are exposed to the rot, particularly the concentrated rot found only in the lake, as I don't recall seeing these trees elsewhere, despite piles of dead bodies being a common feature in Caelid these days
I have the same problem with you that I have with preston jacobs and his asoiaf stuff in that it becomes really hard to take other people's lore analysis seriously after watching your stuff lol
Maybe you just meant the regular servants of rot, but I don't think there are any mushroom lords in the game. I think the mushroom guys in caelid are just the regular ones.
I remember you talking about Gowry in your last video and how you think he's basically a good person, but while you've convinced me of rot not being evil, I don't think I'm persuaded the same is true of Gowry. I see him as more of a Gideon than a Hewg. It's true that killing Millicent doesn't do permanent damage because she'll just come back to life, but the fact that Gowry is willing to kill her and destroy her psychologically so she can become a better warrior seems pretty irredeemable to me haha.
i like the idea that the greattree dies not because of some cataclysmic event, but because the mycelium it used to feed itself was sealed away with the rot god by the blind swordsman. And the reason the age of plenty came to an end also makes sense this way - either by the grafting theory or by invoking a lack of mycelium to feed the erdtree properly.
i imagine that the enormous chunk of glintstone above the lake of rot is why sorcerers set up base in Liurnia. the glintstone could've come from a comet (or any other space rock really) that may have carried a chitinous scorpion harboring pure rot from the stinger.
and that's why Liurnia's sinking; the comet likely made a crater in which the rot god could nestle, but the glintstone remained above the crater somehow (maybe the rot god used gravity magic). but it's sinking bc even after the rot god was killed, there still remained an enormous lake of rot in which it made home. rot eats at the foundations of Raya Lucaria, and Rennala just mopes in her chambers.