What really upsets me is how young women are getting into this things without knowing the actual consecuences. It makes me so sad. I think this portrays it really well.
so true and as the average age of the internet goes lower and lower, the thought behind decisions such as these and others (cosmetic surgery, etc etc) gets lost in translations and everything becomes a thing that the kids have to follow. its very concerning
Way too many people live their lives hoping they are the exception. Damn near everyone goes about their life as if they are the exception to the rule and somehow will escape the consequences.
I think it does not. She's portrayed as crushed with a guy who's supposed to be a job and a bitch towards his wife just because she's jealous. that isn't entirely inverosimile but it's a little bit tainted if we say this work is talking about a reality of women babydaddying and trying to set a realistic view on this topic.
I come from a country where many women don't know their intimate parts, they have never masturbated and they feel ashamed to talk about things related to sexuality. When I came across the sex positive movement online I was happy because I believed that it was trying to empower women to have equal enjoyment in sexual relationships, to leave behind the taboo of talking about our body parts etc. But I came across a group of people telling me to sell myself to the highest bidder and sleep with any boy without a second thought, etc, it seemed strange to me this emphasis on things that seem to benefit men more than women
I've always found it interesting that in contrast to early feminism, later waves of feminism seem to be aimed at creating the very sort of world that powerful and wealthy men have always wanted to create.
@@celebrim1 This is too much of a generalization, Matthew. And I would have to assume you don't actually keep up with feminist literature and theory to know there has always been discussion and debate about sex work and its effects on women amongst feminists, from first wave to third wave.
@@ad2094 Yes, obviously it is a generalization and not an essay. I realize that there is a lot of often acrimonious debate amongst feminist over "sex positive" feminism and whether or not it's really feminist. I'm just trying to draw a connection between the world some "sex positive" feminists describe as ideal, and the notion of for example, keeping mistresses or sexual access without commitment or polygamy or aggressively displayed female sexuality which is the ideal world described by male chauvinists. I'm not saying every feminist agrees with that vision but the truth is many do.
loved this movie and love this video!!! i'm all for seeing women reclaiming sexuality (especially within a society that sexualizes them no matter what), but we need to have more nuanced conversations about what that reclamation looks like
I once watched a video where they said that there’s a difference between exploiting the patriarchy to your advantage (only fans, sugar babies ,…) and actively working against it. Because exploiting it makes some problems smaller and helps with ownership but also reinforces a lot of them.
I think one of the biggest problems is that girls can only reclaim their sexuality once they're truly equal with men, otherwise, they will always feel used as a tool more than in control of their sexuality
I think when you explain consent to a woman properly, and she is a normal empathetic adult, she doesn't need you to tell her what her sexuality can entail. Thanks but no thanks. Give advice when given. This comment stinks
I'm a feminist and I never thought, that enabling older men to access transactional sex with barely legal women was "empowering". IMO, sugar babying advantages men more than women. Sex work is a job and it's far less romantic/political than media would like us to believe. Having sex with someone you dont find attractive for money feels more like having a difficult job that pays less than the minimum wage, rather than the "glamour" life of models/actresses/escorts being sexually harassed on yachts.
Sorry, I have to say as someone who is a sex worker comparing our work to fast food is one of the more insulting comparisons you can make about the job. Just for future reference..
In discussions about sexual empowerment, it's always worth noting that this empowerment usually goes hand in hand with male fantasy and pleasure, so how empowering is it really? And you've brought up something that I hadn't considered: the paternalistic angle. How Max not only gets off on sex with Danielle, but also in being the ultimate authority figure: the father. Yikes.
Well, the terms "Suger baby" and "sugar daddy" have incestuous slash pedophilic connotations in the first place. Sure, plenty of people call their lovers "Momma" Daddy," and "Baby." And that sort of thing is not necessarily bad. But in this organization, it is so blentant that it can hardly be ignored.
In my understanding, sexual empowerment doesn't mean being promiscuous or overtly sexual, it's having the choice to be without ridicule...whatever choices women have been making has nothing to do with men. With that aside, let's get into the meat of the matter. The second-wave feminist movement was one of the primary advocates of promiscuity in women in the 1960s, and was primarily composed of women. Men are usually shamed by women as misogynists for questioning or frowning at sexual promiscuity as a form of empowerment. there are graphs showing that, since the sexual liberation, the likelihood of young men having more than one sexual partner in a year has halved since the 1970s while women's has largely stayed the same, meaning, in the current times, women are twice as likely to have twice or more sexual encounters than a man in any given year. ie, young men are having less sex than ever before and woman are having more. the modern sexual revolution is agreed to have begun in the early 1960s coinciding with approval of the contraceptive pill for public use, which did nothing more than grant women more reproductive (and therefore sexual) agency than ever before. The main thing that changed is that women gained more freedoms than ever before (something that was way overdue I think you'll agree). Everything else is just what women, in general, chose to do with that freedom. Choosing to blame men is reductive of women's own accountability and therefore agency. Sources: Graphs I spoke about: imgbox.com/AjL2SmQR an article on 1960s sexual revolution and feminist movement: www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/pill-and-sexual-revolution/ creators of the contraceptive pill: www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/the-team-that-invented-the-birth-control-pill/380684/ as for my second claim, ask any male friend about their experience.
One touch I love about the movie is, as Rachel Sennott says in the interview mentioned "being a young woman is a horror movie. Nobody else at the shiva is in a horror movie", it's all from Danielle's perspective and she's sees Maya as effortlessly charming the crowd but at the end we even get to see Maya break in the brief moment when her mom is yelling at her before they leave and Maya flips out too. Even Maya gets this moment at the end to release and you see that her life is also hectic
It seems to me that the ex-girlfriend is the empowered one because she's calmer during the shiva. Empowered means being able to do what one wants, such as a bisexual person being able to be open about all their partners in the same place, without fear or embarrassment. It also means financial independence. As a former "mama's boy," depending on someone for money as an adult is not very empowering, due to the financial and psychological abuse involved and resulting fear of abandonment and homelessness. It's anxiety-provoking and lowers self-esteem! Underemployment and workplace bullying have the same effect on employees, due to constant fear of termination.
wow you inspire me to just start writing essays for the fun of it... who said essays are only for school??? thank you for empowering lots of young people. I'm sure I'm not the only one. ;D
As someone who did sugaring to survive I thought I'd share my story about the dangers of it as a job. TL;DR : It was extrmely damaging to my mental health in the long run, it worsened my alcoholism (cuz being numb and inebriated was the only way to act to the level required, deal with the embarassment of having dates in public with men you don't physically match with which made the situation almost obvious), and deal with having sex with people you're completely unattracted to especially when you have existing sexual trauma, and it resulted in an unplanned pregnancy with an asshole. BACKSTORY: I had a pretty rough childhood and developed some pretty strong romantic attachment disorders. I always wanted a healthy long-term relationship and sought them from 18 to 25. However, they mostly ended up being abusive mentally and sexually. January of this year I was extremely traumatized by an emotionally abusive partner that I'd been with for nearly a year. EXTREMELY traumatized. I had a complete meltdown and I started cutting, my anorexia became prevalent again, and planned to commit suicide. I took a few sick days off of work and discussed my plans for suicide with my "husband". I was legally married to someone for 6 years but we broke up after 2 but remained close friends. We never got divorced because I have health issues and couldn't lose my insurance and we were basically still like family even if it was platonic. After dealing with my suicidal behavior for the past 2 or 3 years he asked to get a divorce so he wouldn't gain all my debts and the responsibility of handling things after death. I agreed and we filed for divorce. I was still unable to function for the most part and stopped showing up to my job entirely after my sick days. I did start to see a psychiatrist in january who prescribed lamictal but since my preexisting condition involves hormone issues I had a bad reaction to the hormone based drug and had to stop after about a month and a half. STORY: Unable to work and unable to deal with the sheer amount of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse in my life I became kind of dead to the world. Would wake up and drink all day and just try to distract myself until the divorce went through. Unable to make money at a steady job due to the volatility of my mental state I decided to sign up for a sugarbaby website to make the bare minimum to survive. I planned on having "regulars" in order to not expose myself to too much danger and minimize risk of STI/STD. I found a few. A lonely and sweet man who genuinely seemed to care about me, a divorced kind of arrogant but spiritual yogi type silicon valley style dude who was bareable, and a quite young guy who made a lot of money off a lawsuit and had a girlfriend that was weird but not in a creepy way. When I needed money I'd get tipsy and preped and make plans. I couldn't really do it without alcohol to lower my inhibitions and make the "acting" easier. It definitely fueled my growing issues with alcohol but it was otherwise easy. Work for maybe 1-2 hours 1 to 3 times a weeks and I was making all the money I needed to live and spent the rest of my free time just dealing with my mental health. Before I found my "regulars" there were definitely some scary and annoying situations but I tried my best to avoid potentially dangerous people based on the way they communicated and even turned away one guy who was already at my house when his personality made me super uncomfortable and thankfully because of his high-powered job as a surgeon didn't do anything stupid and just left. AFTERMATH: In late March, 2 months or so after starting sugaring, while on the phone with my mom one day I realized my breasts had been super tender the past few days (initially I just assumed I was going to get my period soon especially because I was also cramping) and because I often don't have my periods regularly I decided to take a pregnancy test just to be sure (a common thing for me whenever I was missing periods so I didn't think a big deal of it). However, it was positive. I just went silent on the phone except for saying over and over oh my god.... ohhhhh my god.... my mom was like what is wrong? wtf is happening???? I could not even verbalize the words "I am pregnant" so I just sent her a picture of the stick. My mom was probably as shocked as I was but we got off the phone shortly after so I could schedule an ultrasound for ASAP to determine how far along I was. I was approximately 5 weeks. Thankfully I wrote down EVERYTHING in my planner so I could pinpoint who it would have been. Two weeks later I told him. It was the divorced yogi type guy. I had to give up alcohol, drugs, nicotine, and my adhd medicine cold turkey. I really started to spiral. I had miscarried a child from probably the healthiest relationship I'd ever had about 2.5 years earlier so the thought of having an abortion was absolutely too much for me to handle. I'd always wanted a child since I was a child. I'd rather just commit suicide than live with losing another baby. My divorce had gone to court and been settled and I'd lost my health insurance TWO DAYS before I found out I was pregnant. So I told my exhusband what was going on and that I was going to commit suicide soon and to finish up whatever paperwork he needed with his job that listed me as a dependent to avoid consequences. While I was waiting for him to seperate our lives completely my family became very supportive of my pregnancy and I tried very hard to come to terms with the fact that my life had changed and I started to accept that suicide wasn't an option for my families sake and accepted the responsibilites of single motherhood with gusto. Unfortunately, me and the father were not getting along especially when I asked him to help support me financially while I tried to get my life and mental health together so I could be a good mother to my child. Beforehand he said he would be as supportive as possible and take responsibility, but when the time came he fell back on it a bit. We got a prenatal paternity test that proved he was the father. And that's about where the story ends so far. I'm currently 16 and a half weeks. My mental health has improved a lot but I'm still struggling with getting a from-home job. I haven't been able to do any sexwork since I found out I was pregnant because without alcohol I will literally have panic attacks where I want to hurt myself. I'm also terrified especially of STDs now because they can harm the baby so celibacy for my mental and physical health has been important. The lonely sweet guy has actually helped out more than the father when I told him my situation and even helped with making the difference in rent once when I was 3 days away and $1500 short. I also found out that the father had lied to me about being divorced and was still married and living with his wife and children which was probably the biggest blow because I felt horrible for her and really guilty even though it wasn't my fault: I was lied to and my poverty and mental health issues (which were obvious from the cuts on my arm and drinking problem) were being taken advantage of by someone who just wanted to buy a young woman for sex. I'm actually excited to be a mom but very scared about my financial situation during the pregnancy especially because I've had pretty severe health conditions during it so far on account of my preexisting conditions and that I hurt my back pretty bad in first trimester which makes it hard to walk much. My friends and family all live very far away and I'm extremely isolated. But I've been learning to reach out to them and my old friends that I trust whenever I'm down instead of letting myself go into the darkness again. My cuts are now faded and I'm trying my best to learn to take care of myself and have a healthy pregnancy. I spend all day thinking about what I want to teach my child and how I want to love them and support them so they never have to go through any of the things I've had to in life. It's just been an extremely traumatic experience in itself. Thanks for listening
Please be good to yourself and forgive yourself for any mistakes you think you made, you dont need to keep punishing yourself or self destructing because of trauma. You deserve happiness and kindness in your life. You are a good person that bad things happened to. I really recommend you focus on mental and physical health right now and maybe try to find a support group of survivors or ex sex workers to discuss your experience with and get advice on your situation. Making friends is hard but you sound isolated and having a strong support group can help so much if you are suicidal. I really do genuinely wish that you get better and recover and you will have an unimaginably wonderful happy life in the future. Recovery is rocky and it can feel like youre backsliding sometimes but it is possible, and you will be ok someday. Stay safe, look after yourself and build up sone self confidence and try to make connections to your community and to new friends who will love and support you. Big hug and respect for surviving so much from me! - ellen
this movie is exactly what an anxiety attack feels like, but I gotta say the ending was so cathartic, I laughed so hard at the scene when they start to get in the car
Okay, how is an old man paying your college fees for sexual favours empowering? The one with the most power in that sort of relationship is always the one with the most wealth and power.
both money and sexual appeal are currencies that give one power to pursue their desires. The advantage with having money is it is universal and incredibly liquid. You can do almost anything with it. You cannot exchange sex for everything in life without a lustful male agent. Thats the main problem i see with its empowerment.
seeing being a sugar baby as "an old man paying your college fees for sexual favours" seems to be a way to deny sex work as work. it's the person performing sex work that is paying their college fees, not the man. it's not really a favor if it's a transaction.
@@ginny7000 True. This does seem to be a way for all the parties involved to engage in prostitution while denying that it is prostitution. Call it what it is. Let people choose, but put the truth on the label.
@@ginny7000 I think sex work should be legalized and it will always be apart of our world unfortunately but I don't want to live in a world which is increasingly becoming more and more unequal. So much so that I start to see normal everyday kind of women in my daily life having to resort to sex work to make ends meet. I also don't want women being manipulated into believing it's "empowering" to milk every bit of their sexual value for what it's worth just because they can. I could probably sell many of my less vital organs to the black market and make a good amount of money but that doesn't mean I should feel the need to do it.
I love this analysis. I’ve never seen this movie but now i want to. I love watching analysis video essays (especially yours) before watching the movies their about, I think it adds a level of depth and understanding to the movie I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise.
This film seems to capture what the Netflix series Baby kind of didn‘t (even though I liked it). The teenage protagoniste comes from a rich family and doesn‘t need money, but she feels powerless in an environment which needs her to be well-behaved and reputable all of the time. The double life (seemingly) allows her to take control and be more mature. Even though the series developes in a way that puts being a sugar baby into a negative light, I found it way too stylized and cookie cutter teen drama (pretty outfits, pop soundtracks, slow-mo party scenes) to really bring the message across I find the whole topic incredibly fascinating, thank you for introducing me to this film xx Your accent is really pretty too
I think this picture is definitely the superior piece, hands down, also because being entirely set in Jewish culture allows both the claustrophobic aesthetic and a type of humour that fits the story perfectly. Baby, on the other hand, since had its original script half edited (cough, censored) by Neflix US became a hybrid between a social commentary and an average teen drama. Also, the choice, to reproduce the aesthetic of the neighbourhood where the real story of the two girls took place (the parties, costumes, etc you mention), fails because not only just the people who are from or hung out in that area of Rome get the references, but also 'cause these elements are not used at the right moments as far the progression of the story and characters goes imo:not everyone can make Euphoria.
@@siracastori01 wow, I didn‘t even know that the script was edited. And it is based on a true story as well? I would have loved it as a show aimed at adults, with a bit more darkness to it. Also the insight into Italian (high) society was cool as well, I wish there were more details on that as well
@@chiaralinnea4335 Yeah, they don't advertise it obviously, but everyone in the industry in Italy knows what happened: the initial script was much grittier and close to the real story, including the girls being 14 and sought out because of this (It was a small ring, not a series of events that brought them by chance to be 'sort of escorts'), but Netflix is not HBO and if they plan on broadcasting something globally, especially in the US, they won't risk it. Look what happened with Mignonnes. So the script that came out rushed and an unintentional hybrid of genres that, in my opinion, tells no story, real of imaginary. Anyway, that wouldn't exactly be Italian high society for the most part, certainly not in the aesthetics; the environment is more that of 'new money show-offs'.
Also, something I never see TH-camrs bring up when talking about "reclaiming" your sexuality is that being able to profit off of it is directly tied to pretty privilege. If you're not attractive, no one will want you.
Not exactly. The sex industry is more diverse than the fashion industry. They cater to all kinds of fetishes, preferences and types. Rule 34 exists in the internet. If it exists there's porn of it. No exceptions. So even if you're not conventionally attractive you can still appeal to someone.
I dont think thats true, I think you can profit of it, but how in hell can profiting from your sexuality could ever be "reclaiming" it? At the moment that your are exchanging it it stops been yours
@@estefaniaboujon6830 The reclamation comes from being 100% in supposed control of your sexuality. It's up to you what you want to show and how much you'll charge of it. Everything is 100% your consent. Men get mad when they can't control women to do what they want.
@@HannahDecember Isnt up to you, when men pay, your sexuallity belongs to them, is not yours anymore. (Sorry if my english is bad is not my first lenguage)
This is very thought-provoking. Brilliantly done. Somehow you’ve been able to voice some of the thoughts I’ve had myself but have never been able to verbalize, all the while analyzing a movie. Great work
This video popped up in my recommended and I just couldn’t miss it - I watched Shiva Baby a few months ago and wasn’t able to discuss it with anyone yet. As an asexual, it was quite interesting for me to hear your perspective. Thanks for this video!
My problem with sexwork is not the women who participate, but the men who buy it. How did we get to a point where men value women so little that they would rather pay us to be what they want us to be instead of getting to know us and treating us as people?
I think its wrong to frame it in terms of 'how did we get to this point?', sex work is arguably one of the oldest professions available to women. To take it out of that context stops us from addressing assumed female passivity within heteronormative sex, as by addressing it as a 'now' problem it seeks to blame modern sexual liberation. However, if you place it within history it becomes obvious this commodification of female sex, and hence, the wider male view towards female sexuality, is unfortunately an ingrained part of western culture. Thus, if we are to re-asses gender roles in both sex and relationships we need to be challenging the discourse around sexuality in an everyday sense in order to break these long term beliefs.
Great analysis of the soundtrack especially - I loved the analysis of how the filmmaking techniques expresses the themes - made me think! Also I thought the bisexual rep was so good in this too :) Fabulous essay also Sex Education 4 life
would love a take on all the french films that center on a female protagonist as sex worker/prostitute and romanticize or misrepresent the profession e.g. vivre sa vie, belle de jour, young & beautiful - I'm sure there are more
7:06 I love this part so much. Just finished my 3rd year of university and my dad still asks me what my major is semi-regularly. I was also just explaining the kind of classes I take at university to my mother just yesterday. 😆
I was one month from Graduation I had literally been in Broadcasting major with a focus in Video editing from day one my freshman year I call my Mom and she says "Awww son so is Art still your major??" I hung up in tears
I got this all the time. To the extent where my parents couldn't "match" me to potential grooms when they were discussing marriage options for me. I got offered prospectless visa hunters while my sister got offered dentists as her credentials were easier to explain/understand.
Sex work is just plain old classism because mostly poor people that do this. In rich countries that have legal prostitution there's a huge increase in trafficking because the local women are rich enough, and the social net is robust enough, they don't need to consider sex work thus the need to traffic girls from poor countries.
SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK I had a college debate for an English course about whether sex work should be legalized (thank the heavens I was given the anti-sex work stance), and found out during research that the country where I live in, which has legalized sex work, has had the amount of human trafficking RISE from poor countries since it has been legal.
@@MDonuT-of7px agreed. As a former worker I’ve seen too much to support full legalization. Opens doors for bad actors to get in and continue exploitation under the safety of gov approval. Imo if we decriminalize it for the workers *only* and work to help support them instead of punish them for the circumstances they’re in that’s the only form of “legalization” that would work.
Until the people that make and review sex work media understand that it is the only way out of lifelong poverty and violence for some-not a fun walk on the wild side, will you get a true picture of what wealthy women are discussing as a political football
I remember being blown away at the casual presentation of bisexual characters in The Hours, simply for showing stories of people who must be real but were never talked about back in 2002. Its sad how little things have changed in that regard in the past 20 years
I can't believe you've done a video on Shiva Baby, I loved it so much! One of my favourite channels easily, I was actually going to suggest the film. If you're a MUBI user, I also recommend 'Princess Cyd', I think it'd really appeal to you :)
Preach! Even not engaging in sex with men is a male fantasy. Sucks ass. All we can do is make ourselves happy and try not to give a fuck. But you’re spot on.
Even if we weren't under a patriarchy, there is no such thing as "sexual liberation" and if there were it would be vastly different from individual to individual therefore ending with certain women claiming other women are not truly liberated due to their decisions and they are. It works out the same no matter what, even if men didn't exist and we were all lesbians. Sex shouldn't be a movement. It's personal.
Suffocating, a bit like an Uncut Gems for people, but way more powerful, 'cause let's be honest I've never shared much with those kinds of jewels goons. While here, it's like a soka tira match-up between what I stand for and what I tend to represent. PS: My very first comment was very harsh and crude, though it was my life in a nutshell and the way I felt the movie, so I preferred to erase it for good. Thank you very much for your work, take care.
@@AugustRx the homeless guy asking me for a cigarette on my way to work has better marketing than most conservatives but their prediction that sexual liberation will lead to more exploitation was pretty correct imo
that and a lot of sex workers seem to revel in the idea that husbands/boyfriends cheat to be with them. how is it empowering for your employment to be contingent on the emotional suffering of another woman?
@@Sabrina-sc1db Correct. Most commonly, young men and boys sell sex to older gay men. But there are more women who buy sex, from men or women, than most of us know about. And most of those guys, regardless of their actual sexual orientation, will sleep with men or women if paid to. But men pay them more often.
@@jefrreyjeffery2192 By The Netherland's own estimations, 90% of their sex workers are female. So it's still the vast majority. And the male escorts are being purchased by other men. Funny that there is not a single brothel on the planet that serves only female clients using male sex workers. 🤔
i just hate sm stories abt sugar babies are abt an upper class or rich (usually white) girl who is either doing it be she’s “vaguely sad” or as some kind of self harm/validation. it’s cheap atp like these r definitely valuable stories and i’d never say that anyone’s story is invalid because that’s not true. but if we are going to be nuanced can we REALLY be nuanced. i want to see sugar babies who LIKE their jobs(i’m one of them🤷🏽♀️) but also the journey to get to that point bc it wasn’t always an easy ride and it’s definitely not for everyone. i want to see sugar babies who need the money and maybe struggle in ways that a upper class woman couldn’t ever know because of her class. i want to see black sugar babies, trans sugar babies, fat sugar babies, CYBER SUGAR BABIES, and older sugar babies!!!! sex work is one of the only lines of work that has been more inclusive to others (for yikes reasons i will admit but still) and to wash all that history away bc it’s going mainstream now is sad. taking voices away again.
I think we need to view sex work for what it is: manual labour. Would you tell a miner they're empowered? Would you tell someone picking apples they're a feminist icon? Probably not. Sex work is work and with that comes an inherent imbalance of power between employer and employee, a toll on your physical health plus the mental strain of stigma against women in sex work. There is some level of reclamation in taking what would be sexualised and selling it but it's contrasted by the psychological weight sex work has on you. Sex work is work before it is anything evil or romanticised or whatever anybody tries to paint it as, and we need people going into this field of work to understand it is a job with a stigma against it before they believe that it's some mystical empowering fairytale or a way to get attention and fulfill their own desires
Sex positivity in the mid to late 2000s thru the 2010s (the time period when 90s millenials and 90s zoomers made trends popular) was more about not shaming women for not being virgins before marriage, not shaming gals for having a lot of sex (especially cis women that have had sex with a lot of guys) or little to no sex, not shaming women for demanding to have better sexual experiences with men, treating sex workers as people instead of criminals (especially since the majority of sex workers are trans gals and gals of color - who did sex work out of necessity and not because they love it), and implementing laws to protect sex workers from abusers, reduce clients' abilities to exploit sex workers and victims (especially since most of the clients are older rich cis straight men), and reduce trafficking and crime. Sugarbabying was not really glamourized or discussed as sex work or empowering until the 2020s (the time period when 2000s zoomers made trends popular) - similar to how cosmeric surgery was not really popular to be open about having or popular to promote and glamourize until the late 2010s to the 2020s. Similar to other forms of sex work, sugarbabying did not get popular to romanticize as empowering until a bunch of cis white gals started doing it and hyping it up. Cis white gals attracted to guys are the most likely to choose to do sex work because they love it, the most likely to glamourize and romanticize sex work (as long as it is centered on white gal empowerment; they still hate and demonize non-white female sex workers), and the group of gals least harmed by the issues within and outside of the sex work world. Because of the popularity of short-form online media and the alt-right's attempts to disregard intersectional feminism and critical race theory (especially in the 2020s), a lot of nuance about the pros and cons of sex work and sugarbabying is lost on the younger gals that consume content glamourizing and romanticizing sex work and sugarbabying and a lot of then are not going to take the time to look into the issues within the sex work world and the sugar baby world or have deeper analyses of the power dynamics that occurs from young gals servicing older rich men thru sexual favors and how reliant those worlds are on female pretty privilege compared to other forms of work. [Legalization of sex work was supposed to be about fixing the issues with the systems of sex work to protect sex workers from abusive clients, reduce trafficking, and give sex work the same legal protections and rights as other forms of work - basically not glamourizing or demonizing sex work so much that it is seen as a mudane (and often dangerous) job rather than as a glamorous fantasy or a forbidden dirty secret (basically boring and lame that requires thinking about responsibilities, pros, and cons; similar to what happened once comprehensive sex education was pushed to replace abstinence-only sex education). Until society starts de-centering cis straight guys and cis-heteronormative patriarchy completely, issues within the sex work world will always occur.]
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with sex work, but I won't let my hypothetical children to do it. The same I won't let them do any physical work like mining, underwater diving, athletics, modelling etc. These are all 'physical work'. Things you can do when you have the physical to do it. It's best to focus on mental work/ white collar work for longevity.
Call my old but when did prostitution morph into a feminist power play.? Traditionally it was about trading sex for money, so why criticize transactional sex as transactional?
Capitalism. If it can be bought and sold, it has value. And since patriarchy treats women like objects, they are the perfect capitalist comodity for men. It's like bigotry bingo- the worst parts of our society comming together. I just hope more women wake up to the reality and vocalise it soon.
@@lararys7765 Hi Lara, sure, exactly 100%. I agree and also want to broaden your answer..men are prostitutes also and also..horribly are children of both sexes. My original response was trying to figure out when prostitution became ‘ empowering’ ? Was it when it was renamed sugar baby..because that’s infantilism., which to my mind at least makes it worse, I should add that I’m 100% for someone doing whatever they want for money or with their bodies;My problem is when it’s caused by abuse.
@@adamjeffries7235 I think the biggest problem that young boys and men are facing today with regards to the sex industry is porn. Alot of kids are finding this stuff at single digit ages and that's absolutely creating an unhealthy sexuality. The brain's reward system is being hijacked for instant gratification. It's affecting their relationships in real life and their day to day living. I know male SWers are treated like sub humans too. It's just a saving grace that it's not being marketed to boys as "empowerment" and a normal job opportunity.
@@lararys7765 thank you for educating me Lana. No one but you a person born with a uterus has such wisdom. Check the damn presumptions, ok. I’m trying to have a conversation and we already agree. This is the same arrogance you say you want to eliminate.l
Ok, as a dude, I feel so much better after watching this video and reading these comments, because I have been wondering for years if the financial aspect of sexual liberation, at least the one linked to onlyfans and sugaring and such, doesn't benefit rich straight men more than anybody. However, because I'm a guy, I just always assumed that I must be missing something, because as a guy there are things about being a woman that I am not going to understand. But it didn't make sense to me. If making sex work more socially acceptable was about empowering women, wouldn't you take the path of least resistance, and rather than telling poor girls without any job prospects that they had to become a slave for a rich guy to survive, and wouldn't it be more empowering to set up a charity for job training or college funds? I was trying to wrap my head around what exactly was the cool "girlboss" aspect of hinging your life's entire worth on pleasing some 60 year-old executive while throwing everything that made you you out of the window, and just could not find ANYTHING. Hell, the happiest woman I have ever known has a Masters in Physics, makes more than I will for the next twenty years, and is in a "friends with benefits" situation with a former boxer who is built like a rhinoceros, and he is broke as shit. She basically owns him. He's like a sexual accessory for her XD. There are enough sad people with broken dreams. Don't aspire to be what others have as their last resort. Be the sugar parent, not the sugar child. I cannot begin to explain how relieved I was to find out that my original hunch was correct from the beginning.
I always assumed the sugar baby thing was an extension of sexual liberation. The idea that a women can sleep with anyone she wants without being shamed. Women are just as sexual as men, but mens sexuality is seen as more normal or acceptable. Thus, the empowering part of sexual liberation was meant to paint women's sexuality as normal. Now, every women is different, every feminist is different. Thus the topic of wheter sugar baby is empowering or not is being debated. Can a feminist advocate for sugar babies? yes Can a feminist Not advocate for sugar babies? yes.
Are you kidding? Does anyone seriously think that immature young women, selling their bodies, to cater to the fantasies of old men, is 'sexually empowering'? How fortunate for these men that young women have discovered their 'agency' - their wildest dreams have suddenly come true. If we have come to point where we can view such behavior with equanimity, as just women flexing their sexual power, then something is seriously wrong. These women need not be demonized, but that's a long way from celebrating their behavior as just another step in their sexual liberation. They need to grow up and get a clue, not encouraged. I'd also add that suggesting that the life of a very confused and wealthy young white woman is a 'horror show' is just mind boggling, given the millions of women who are forced into sex work by dire economic need or violent sexual slavery. It's not just the protagonist of this film that seems to have lost her moral compass, while consumed by her own narcissistic self absorption.
It's almost as if once you accept the inevitability of capitalism, any attempt to maximize one's effectiveness within in, however "empowering", is disgusting.
@@MDonuT-of7pxfor some people, yes that is an option but that’s easier said than done for a great deal of people. It’s worth mentioning that a lot of SW is survival SW. that’s why a lot of undocumented people, minors who were runaways, addiction sufferers, or people who do not have access to certain resources take it up. Education has its costs.
@@MDonuT-of7px it's funny that you say that because a lot of young women (think like 18/19 years old) who get into sex work do it because they have to otherwise they can't afford to go to university.
Sexual liberation does not mean everyone is free of emotional distress. Sexual liberation is more materialist: Access to contraceptives, access to safe abortions, consensual sexual relationships with adults. It is not freedom from the emotional complexities associated with sex.
I am two year late to this essay but I just watched this movie and I want to add: I love the portrayal of bisexual women in this movie as someone who grew up in orthodox Hindu home, homosexuality is really frowned upon i am still not out to my parents bc ik they are not gonna accept me (atleast now they won't) I am at the same phase as Danielle, i am young bisexual women trying to make a living with unusual major, so it's really confusing now, what I liked specifically about this movie it never really got into turmoils of being "bisexual" like I love movie based on exploring sexuality but this was fresh breath of air bc the bisexuality it's just there (never takes super centre stage) , maybe it is because I never went through that self hatred phase where I hated myself for being gay, i always knew I was and never really cared about what others thought and my fellow orthodox Hindu gay friends always asked me "how can u be so comfortable in ur sexuality without being like this is wrong" well idk i have never really had that religious prejudice even as a fairly religious person(till this day ) so this movie really fucking explained my feelings as a bisexual very well.
Brilliant analysis! This movie is so claustrophobic I don't think I could watch it. But this summary and analysis is fabulous. I also agree that it is wondefullll to get some bisexual rep where the character is not questioning their bisexuality but rather it is simply an established part of who they are. This movie clearly has a lottt of important things to say about Sugaring power dynamics, young womanhood and queerness
"this isn't to say that all power gained from sex is an illusion" it is, people do it because they *need* to or if they have enough privilege to do it in their comfortable OF then there's that, but I'm really sure there is a majority that is uncomfortable with the idea of selling their bodies because they need money The only ones who get power by sex are the buyers aka men.
This kind of remind me of the graduate . Of when the guy graduates he dosnt know what to do . He feels like he has no control and he’s around adults who want him to do so many things and ask him what’s next ? What are you going to do . And he ends up having a affair with a older women . Mrs. Robinson but we see then that she to is stuck in a place where she can’t get out and he wants to .
In my personal opinion Sexual liberation or Feminism will mean nothing if money/ the commodifying fetish of Capitalisms is not taken down. Money and the commodification of the body by capitalisms has been the real issue behind sexual puritanicalism and women's oppressions.
That was a bunch of projective bullhshit, this already happen BEFORE capitalism even existed, plus half of capitalism's modern problems are brought in part by *liberalism* which you seem to be apart of, cope harder queen 💅
Is it an object? Sex if sold, is an object. If compensating for something is valued or expected there's no denying the facts. Sexuality is resource. The real is real. Most of the people are not delusional - they're ignorant. The opinions in this movie and in the subsequent essay are ignorant.
A lot of these comments imply that sex work isn’t empowering because it doesn’t create a power differential between the SB and the SD that puts the SB above the SD, but the empowerment may instead come simply from getting money, which can be incredibly empowering in and of itself, especially when coming from dire financial circumstances. It is not consentual, as it is financial coercion, but it still can take you from a lower place of power and autonomy to a higher one.
It’s not just about power dynamics though. This may be a controversial take, but female sexuality is (generally) different to a males. Shocker. Women have visceral responses to men they perceive as gross or dangerous, and sex (even if it’s a job) is still a physiologically taxing activity. Sex work is not glamorous, and a good chunk of the time it is only done out of necessity, desperation or by coercion. I feel violated everyday just by working for a big corporation in a depressing factory, I can’t imagine selling my body for some strangers sexual gratification.
Shiva Baby is a really hyped film. I do understand the topic of this video and it is very relevant however, I do not see that commentary in this film. Hence this is almost like an after-thought. Throughout the film the same emotion is repeated and its builds to nothing really...
Isnt sexual liberation about feeling good with your own body though? I haven't seen this movie so I can't put any argument with definite intention, so... But, like, it seems that Danielle is misunderstanding some things. As if she thinks that sexual intercorse doesn't bring any consequence, when in reality every single course of action we take brings consequences, for better or worse. Maybe shes is taking sexual relations as an escapist phantasy and then struggling t oreality once it knnocks on her door? So could this question of the effectiveness of sexual liberation be applied here?
Yeah this is something i see trending with some of my feminist friends. Maybe they also know there is nothing revolutionary about finding a sugar daddy. No man will give you most of his money so you’re not really flipping the tables. More like just leeching on. But i understand the motivation behind, it is much much much better than most job opportunities. But thats about it. It’s just an individual’s effort to push themselves to a better life. Same is true for sex work too. I dont see why they are such a big deal in feminist rhetoric.
exactly! intelexual media has a great video about sex work and the most memorable point from it for me was when she said sex work is not empowering feminism, its work. i recommend!!
This movie confused me. I felt like I couldn’t understand why anyone was making the choices they did- everyone seemed unhinged to me. After watching this video, I understand the motivation behind their decisions more, but I still don’t know why they didn’t just leave lol 🥴 This is my Letterboxd review: You know what, I really wanted to like this to the point where I convinced myself I did but...everyone in the movie has worms in their brains! why didn’t she just leave! We know she has a phone, call an Uber! Why was her girlfriend such a weirdo! And why was everything okay at the end, I DEFINITELY would have needed to cool down for a bit after that interaction. You can’t call me a whore and then HIDE MY PHONE in what was basically a shame obstacle course and then hold my hand..we’d simply have to physically fight. Oh and the nudes!!!! Why did she do that??? I was so scared she was gonna accidentally air drop the photos to everyone there and thank god she didn’t but honestly, in her fragile state of mind she is fortunate she didn’t! AND THE BLOW JOB. Girl I am begging you to seek treatment! And why didn’t her mom suggest they leave after any of the very concerning moments they shared together??? At a certain point, I would have just sat outside with a bagel. Ya gotta know when to throw in the towel! I’m so glad I have a therapist lol.
Hey there! Guessing you’re not a Jew but correct me if I’m wrong. To answer one of your questions- sitting shiva is more than just a memorial service, it’s a community thing, and you’re not really allowed to leave lol (this’ll obviously vary with different families/places and how observant people are). That’s why they couldn’t just leave! Hopefully this comes off as helpful and not preachy, I understand why someone would have this question!
@@sam-8423 thank you for replying! You’re right, I’m Liberian, not at all Jewish 😅I knew that there were going to be some things that I wouldn’t get upon first viewing because I’m not Jewish. It helps to know she couldn’t just leave lol.
@@sam-8423 I still stand by the girlfriend thing tho- if someone called me a whore and hid my phone I would first immediately burst into tears, but then dry my eyes so I could physically fight them.
Culture is the factor im latina and for us family is a priority too i was raised like that leaving feels imposible and if u do becouse how tight the realationship is, it would only bring more problems for everyone
@@lunav4111 upon further reflection I realized I was being unreasonable. Being Liberian, I’ve often been in uncomfortable family situations and I know I wouldn’t just leave because of the commitment I have to the family/community. I guess I was just stressed after watching the movie that I was like girl you need to get outta there!! Lol I guess the movie did it’s job then!
Sex work is and will never be empowering. I also don't like to call it work, cause that would legitimze prostitution as a viable option for women. The thing is, for most women, it's not an option, it's something they are forced to do for multiple reasons. As a woman from the Netherlands, a country where prostitution is legal, I know that most prostitutes aren't Dutch or western European. Why not? Cause young women from the Netherlands actually have the opportunity to pursue education and would never touch it with a 10 feet pole. Go to the red light district and what you'll see is a lot, and I mean a lot, of Eastern European women. Commentaries like this are needed, cause the illusion of sexual liberation through selling one's body being empowering is a fat lie. However, commentaries like these often fall flat when you have the narrator backtrack by making cowardice pandering excuses, or pointing out that ''some'' aspects of it can be rewarding, empowering, sexually liberating, or ''a viable path for a lot of people''. Just because it's an escape from poverty, doesn't mean that the financial freedom you might achieve is empowering. Calling prostitution sexual violence might be a bit of a hyperbole, but how else do we define women selling their bodies to men who they wouldn't have sex with if there wasn't any money involved? It's paid consent and without the money, there wouldn't be any. If that doesn't make one think and reconsider one's believes on prostitution, then I don't know what will. Also, the whole notion of being a ''sugar baby'' and the way it's often portrayed is unrealistic, cause more often than not it's young and pretty girls from middle-class backgrounds who engage in such behaviors. We also should just call it for what it is, prostitution, only it's kinda like being a more ''high-class escort''.
The majority of this issue of Danielle engaging in sex work is that she chose someone within her community to be her sugar daddy. That's not normal and is the source of her stress and crisis
I think "sugar babying" is not "sexual liberation". for it to be liberation everyone has to be free and you have to want to be with the person not needing the money. Prostitution is not slavery nor liberation is merely survival, a means to an end (like any other job). The view on this topics seems a little bit tainted in this movie. She's portrayed as having a crush on him instead of seeing him as a sugar daddy. And in this crush she becomes hostile towards his wife, somehow making her seem responsible for the man's infidelity and her "less than feminist".
How does the movie show that she has a crush on him? I agree with the interpretation in the video, that the main character sees him as a way to make money and gain a feeling of power (which ultimately turns out to be an illusion). I think it's pretty clear from their first interaction that she mostly just wants to claim her "paycheck" and move along.
I don’t think she has a crush on him at all. She’s just trying to use him to get her emotional needs met. And her jealousy stems from the fact that she admires the wife. She doesn’t want to be married to him, she wants to be successful like the wife
watched this movie just cause mubi would not stop playing it in ads for me and it sounded very interesting, but idk how i feel after actually watching it
English is not my native language (first language), so I thank God that in my real language, the word ''daddy'' is not necessarily linked to a sexual connotation. Obviously, freedom exists and there are people who use the word daddy in a sexual way, but the sexual connotation is not the only one that exists. Daddy can also be used in the form of a joke with friends, in the form of affection and, of course, to call your real father in an affectionate way without incestuous connotations. Globalization and the dominance of the English language in social media has encompassed our way of seeing the world; but I thank God for not letting the Anglo-Saxons completely dirty the term daddy in my native language. I'm 25 years old and I say daddy to my real father in an affectionate and trusting way without thinking about how dirty that word may sound to Anglo-Saxon ears. I say it without any shame and without discomfort. I don't even think about how sexual it might sound to other people. In my language that word is closer to storge love than to eros love.
Kind of ethnocentrist and prejudiced to assume it's 'AngloSaxons' at fault. More like, female English-*speakers* have established this as a sexual term and men have followed suit. It still sounds bad to English speakers too
The key “variable” is typically the man feeling he has “ownership” beyond a relatively straightforward transaction. The old cake and eat it too adage😅😂❤
What really upsets me is how young women are getting into this things without knowing the actual consecuences. It makes me so sad. I think this portrays it really well.
These**
so true and as the average age of the internet goes lower and lower, the thought behind decisions such as these and others (cosmetic surgery, etc etc) gets lost in translations and everything becomes a thing that the kids have to follow. its very concerning
I have been in a similar situation low confidence can be taken advantage of . Women are aware but sometimes it beats being lonely
Way too many people live their lives hoping they are the exception. Damn near everyone goes about their life as if they are the exception to the rule and somehow will escape the consequences.
I think it does not. She's portrayed as crushed with a guy who's supposed to be a job and a bitch towards his wife just because she's jealous. that isn't entirely inverosimile but it's a little bit tainted if we say this work is talking about a reality of women babydaddying and trying to set a realistic view on this topic.
I come from a country where many women don't know their intimate parts, they have never masturbated and they feel ashamed to talk about things related to sexuality. When I came across the sex positive movement online I was happy because I believed that it was trying to empower women to have equal enjoyment in sexual relationships, to leave behind the taboo of talking about our body parts etc. But I came across a group of people telling me to sell myself to the highest bidder and sleep with any boy without a second thought, etc, it seemed strange to me this emphasis on things that seem to benefit men more than women
You've seen through the lie of "sexual liberation." It's not liberating if it's for the sole benefit of men.
I've always found it interesting that in contrast to early feminism, later waves of feminism seem to be aimed at creating the very sort of world that powerful and wealthy men have always wanted to create.
@@celebrim1 This is too much of a generalization, Matthew. And I would have to assume you don't actually keep up with feminist literature and theory to know there has always been discussion and debate about sex work and its effects on women amongst feminists, from first wave to third wave.
@@ad2094 Yes, obviously it is a generalization and not an essay. I realize that there is a lot of often acrimonious debate amongst feminist over "sex positive" feminism and whether or not it's really feminist.
I'm just trying to draw a connection between the world some "sex positive" feminists describe as ideal, and the notion of for example, keeping mistresses or sexual access without commitment or polygamy or aggressively displayed female sexuality which is the ideal world described by male chauvinists. I'm not saying every feminist agrees with that vision but the truth is many do.
THIS!!
loved this movie and love this video!!! i'm all for seeing women reclaiming sexuality (especially within a society that sexualizes them no matter what), but we need to have more nuanced conversations about what that reclamation looks like
I once watched a video where they said that there’s a difference between exploiting the patriarchy to your advantage (only fans, sugar babies ,…) and actively working against it. Because exploiting it makes some problems smaller and helps with ownership but also reinforces a lot of them.
I think one of the biggest problems is that girls can only reclaim their sexuality once they're truly equal with men, otherwise, they will always feel used as a tool more than in control of their sexuality
@@izunahosaki6133 We're all tools to be used for good, men and women. The living ones, at least.
Love this comment
I think when you explain consent to a woman properly, and she is a normal empathetic adult, she doesn't need you to tell her what her sexuality can entail. Thanks but no thanks. Give advice when given. This comment stinks
I'm a feminist and I never thought, that enabling older men to access transactional sex with barely legal women was "empowering". IMO, sugar babying advantages men more than women.
Sex work is a job and it's far less romantic/political than media would like us to believe. Having sex with someone you dont find attractive for money feels more like having a difficult job that pays less than the minimum wage, rather than the "glamour" life of models/actresses/escorts being sexually harassed on yachts.
Definitely agree. Sex work is either glamorized or demonized when it's a (albeit controversial) job.
@Mami Makala Thank you.
Sorry, I have to say as someone who is a sex worker comparing our work to fast food is one of the more insulting comparisons you can make about the job. Just for future reference..
@@elvirasmith4063 You are hurt, that
I compared sex work to flipping burgers?
@@beefstew4721 I'm not sure if you're an artist or not if, but if you are you can always consider to start making commissions for erotic art.
In discussions about sexual empowerment, it's always worth noting that this empowerment usually goes hand in hand with male fantasy and pleasure, so how empowering is it really? And you've brought up something that I hadn't considered: the paternalistic angle. How Max not only gets off on sex with Danielle, but also in being the ultimate authority figure: the father. Yikes.
people seem to confuse personal confidence with class liberation. idk why no one thinks about WHY appealing to the male gaze is "empowering" lol.
I think you have a higher chance of becoming traumatized by sw than flipping burgers thoñ
@@jennabernice Because we want Him to see us. 👁
Well, the terms "Suger baby" and "sugar daddy" have incestuous slash pedophilic connotations in the first place. Sure, plenty of people call their lovers "Momma" Daddy," and "Baby." And that sort of thing is not necessarily bad. But in this organization, it is so blentant that it can hardly be ignored.
@@milascave2 just wait for another 10-20 years and westerners will start pounding their babies. Long live the hedonism.
Using sexuality as empowerment always seemed to be a male created grift.
Yep 😕
Because it is.
Lol let’s blame the patriarchy on this one too..
@@x80WildCat08x people like you never add anything to the conversation.
In my understanding, sexual empowerment doesn't mean being promiscuous or overtly sexual, it's having the choice to be without ridicule...whatever choices women have been making has nothing to do with men. With that aside, let's get into the meat of the matter.
The second-wave feminist movement was one of the primary advocates of promiscuity in women in the 1960s, and was primarily composed of women.
Men are usually shamed by women as misogynists for questioning or frowning at sexual promiscuity as a form of empowerment.
there are graphs showing that, since the sexual liberation, the likelihood of young men having more than one sexual partner in a year has halved since the 1970s while women's has largely stayed the same, meaning, in the current times, women are twice as likely to have twice or more sexual encounters than a man in any given year. ie, young men are having less sex than ever before and woman are having more.
the modern sexual revolution is agreed to have begun in the early 1960s coinciding with approval of the contraceptive pill for public use, which did nothing more than grant women more reproductive (and therefore sexual) agency than ever before.
The main thing that changed is that women gained more freedoms than ever before (something that was way overdue I think you'll agree). Everything else is just what women, in general, chose to do with that freedom. Choosing to blame men is reductive of women's own accountability and therefore agency.
Sources:
Graphs I spoke about: imgbox.com/AjL2SmQR
an article on 1960s sexual revolution and feminist movement: www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/pill-and-sexual-revolution/
creators of the contraceptive pill: www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/the-team-that-invented-the-birth-control-pill/380684/
as for my second claim, ask any male friend about their experience.
As a bisexual woman in college scared about the future I loved this film so much, it made me feel represented and less alone
thanks Ariana
One touch I love about the movie is, as Rachel Sennott says in the interview mentioned "being a young woman is a horror movie. Nobody else at the shiva is in a horror movie", it's all from Danielle's perspective and she's sees Maya as effortlessly charming the crowd but at the end we even get to see Maya break in the brief moment when her mom is yelling at her before they leave and Maya flips out too. Even Maya gets this moment at the end to release and you see that her life is also hectic
You think being a young woman is horrific, aging isn't any better. The only benefit is you learn to love yourself and say eff you to society.
It seems to me that the ex-girlfriend is the empowered one because she's calmer during the shiva. Empowered means being able to do what one wants, such as a bisexual person being able to be open about all their partners in the same place, without fear or embarrassment. It also means financial independence. As a former "mama's boy," depending on someone for money as an adult is not very empowering, due to the financial and psychological abuse involved and resulting fear of abandonment and homelessness. It's anxiety-provoking and lowers self-esteem! Underemployment and workplace bullying have the same effect on employees, due to constant fear of termination.
wow you inspire me to just start writing essays for the fun of it... who said essays are only for school??? thank you for empowering lots of young people. I'm sure I'm not the only one. ;D
I love Uncut Gems, never heard of Shiva Baby but I’m going to have to watch it now. Thank you for this excellent essay-review
As someone who did sugaring to survive I thought I'd share my story about the dangers of it as a job.
TL;DR : It was extrmely damaging to my mental health in the long run, it worsened my alcoholism (cuz being numb and inebriated was the only way to act to the level required, deal with the embarassment of having dates in public with men you don't physically match with which made the situation almost obvious), and deal with having sex with people you're completely unattracted to especially when you have existing sexual trauma, and it resulted in an unplanned pregnancy with an asshole.
BACKSTORY: I had a pretty rough childhood and developed some pretty strong romantic attachment disorders. I always wanted a healthy long-term relationship and sought them from 18 to 25. However, they mostly ended up being abusive mentally and sexually. January of this year I was extremely traumatized by an emotionally abusive partner that I'd been with for nearly a year. EXTREMELY traumatized. I had a complete meltdown and I started cutting, my anorexia became prevalent again, and planned to commit suicide. I took a few sick days off of work and discussed my plans for suicide with my "husband". I was legally married to someone for 6 years but we broke up after 2 but remained close friends. We never got divorced because I have health issues and couldn't lose my insurance and we were basically still like family even if it was platonic. After dealing with my suicidal behavior for the past 2 or 3 years he asked to get a divorce so he wouldn't gain all my debts and the responsibility of handling things after death. I agreed and we filed for divorce. I was still unable to function for the most part and stopped showing up to my job entirely after my sick days. I did start to see a psychiatrist in january who prescribed lamictal but since my preexisting condition involves hormone issues I had a bad reaction to the hormone based drug and had to stop after about a month and a half.
STORY: Unable to work and unable to deal with the sheer amount of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse in my life I became kind of dead to the world. Would wake up and drink all day and just try to distract myself until the divorce went through. Unable to make money at a steady job due to the volatility of my mental state I decided to sign up for a sugarbaby website to make the bare minimum to survive. I planned on having "regulars" in order to not expose myself to too much danger and minimize risk of STI/STD. I found a few. A lonely and sweet man who genuinely seemed to care about me, a divorced kind of arrogant but spiritual yogi type silicon valley style dude who was bareable, and a quite young guy who made a lot of money off a lawsuit and had a girlfriend that was weird but not in a creepy way. When I needed money I'd get tipsy and preped and make plans. I couldn't really do it without alcohol to lower my inhibitions and make the "acting" easier. It definitely fueled my growing issues with alcohol but it was otherwise easy. Work for maybe 1-2 hours 1 to 3 times a weeks and I was making all the money I needed to live and spent the rest of my free time just dealing with my mental health. Before I found my "regulars" there were definitely some scary and annoying situations but I tried my best to avoid potentially dangerous people based on the way they communicated and even turned away one guy who was already at my house when his personality made me super uncomfortable and thankfully because of his high-powered job as a surgeon didn't do anything stupid and just left.
AFTERMATH: In late March, 2 months or so after starting sugaring, while on the phone with my mom one day I realized my breasts had been super tender the past few days (initially I just assumed I was going to get my period soon especially because I was also cramping) and because I often don't have my periods regularly I decided to take a pregnancy test just to be sure (a common thing for me whenever I was missing periods so I didn't think a big deal of it). However, it was positive. I just went silent on the phone except for saying over and over oh my god.... ohhhhh my god.... my mom was like what is wrong? wtf is happening???? I could not even verbalize the words "I am pregnant" so I just sent her a picture of the stick. My mom was probably as shocked as I was but we got off the phone shortly after so I could schedule an ultrasound for ASAP to determine how far along I was. I was approximately 5 weeks. Thankfully I wrote down EVERYTHING in my planner so I could pinpoint who it would have been. Two weeks later I told him. It was the divorced yogi type guy. I had to give up alcohol, drugs, nicotine, and my adhd medicine cold turkey. I really started to spiral. I had miscarried a child from probably the healthiest relationship I'd ever had about 2.5 years earlier so the thought of having an abortion was absolutely too much for me to handle. I'd always wanted a child since I was a child. I'd rather just commit suicide than live with losing another baby. My divorce had gone to court and been settled and I'd lost my health insurance TWO DAYS before I found out I was pregnant. So I told my exhusband what was going on and that I was going to commit suicide soon and to finish up whatever paperwork he needed with his job that listed me as a dependent to avoid consequences. While I was waiting for him to seperate our lives completely my family became very supportive of my pregnancy and I tried very hard to come to terms with the fact that my life had changed and I started to accept that suicide wasn't an option for my families sake and accepted the responsibilites of single motherhood with gusto. Unfortunately, me and the father were not getting along especially when I asked him to help support me financially while I tried to get my life and mental health together so I could be a good mother to my child. Beforehand he said he would be as supportive as possible and take responsibility, but when the time came he fell back on it a bit. We got a prenatal paternity test that proved he was the father. And that's about where the story ends so far. I'm currently 16 and a half weeks. My mental health has improved a lot but I'm still struggling with getting a from-home job. I haven't been able to do any sexwork since I found out I was pregnant because without alcohol I will literally have panic attacks where I want to hurt myself. I'm also terrified especially of STDs now because they can harm the baby so celibacy for my mental and physical health has been important. The lonely sweet guy has actually helped out more than the father when I told him my situation and even helped with making the difference in rent once when I was 3 days away and $1500 short. I also found out that the father had lied to me about being divorced and was still married and living with his wife and children which was probably the biggest blow because I felt horrible for her and really guilty even though it wasn't my fault: I was lied to and my poverty and mental health issues (which were obvious from the cuts on my arm and drinking problem) were being taken advantage of by someone who just wanted to buy a young woman for sex. I'm actually excited to be a mom but very scared about my financial situation during the pregnancy especially because I've had pretty severe health conditions during it so far on account of my preexisting conditions and that I hurt my back pretty bad in first trimester which makes it hard to walk much. My friends and family all live very far away and I'm extremely isolated. But I've been learning to reach out to them and my old friends that I trust whenever I'm down instead of letting myself go into the darkness again. My cuts are now faded and I'm trying my best to learn to take care of myself and have a healthy pregnancy. I spend all day thinking about what I want to teach my child and how I want to love them and support them so they never have to go through any of the things I've had to in life. It's just been an extremely traumatic experience in itself. Thanks for listening
Hope u are doing well!! Im sorry u went through all tht
Ur story is very inspiring 🙏💖🙏💖🙏❤💫
Please be good to yourself and forgive yourself for any mistakes you think you made, you dont need to keep punishing yourself or self destructing because of trauma. You deserve happiness and kindness in your life. You are a good person that bad things happened to. I really recommend you focus on mental and physical health right now and maybe try to find a support group of survivors or ex sex workers to discuss your experience with and get advice on your situation. Making friends is hard but you sound isolated and having a strong support group can help so much if you are suicidal. I really do genuinely wish that you get better and recover and you will have an unimaginably wonderful happy life in the future. Recovery is rocky and it can feel like youre backsliding sometimes but it is possible, and you will be ok someday. Stay safe, look after yourself and build up sone self confidence and try to make connections to your community and to new friends who will love and support you. Big hug and respect for surviving so much from me! - ellen
How’s you and the little one doing now!
I pray that you and your child are safe and healthy as of now
this movie is exactly what an anxiety attack feels like, but I gotta say the ending was so cathartic, I laughed so hard at the scene when they start to get in the car
Okay, how is an old man paying your college fees for sexual favours empowering? The one with the most power in that sort of relationship is always the one with the most wealth and power.
reread " paying for your college fees" whilst others are forced to take on debt
both money and sexual appeal are currencies that give one power to pursue their desires. The advantage with having money is it is universal and incredibly liquid. You can do almost anything with it. You cannot exchange sex for everything in life without a lustful male agent. Thats the main problem i see with its empowerment.
seeing being a sugar baby as "an old man paying your college fees for sexual favours" seems to be a way to deny sex work as work. it's the person performing sex work that is paying their college fees, not the man. it's not really a favor if it's a transaction.
@@ginny7000 True. This does seem to be a way for all the parties involved to engage in prostitution while denying that it is prostitution. Call it what it is. Let people choose, but put the truth on the label.
@@ginny7000 I think sex work should be legalized and it will always be apart of our world unfortunately but I don't want to live in a world which is increasingly becoming more and more unequal. So much so that I start to see normal everyday kind of women in my daily life having to resort to sex work to make ends meet. I also don't want women being manipulated into believing it's "empowering" to milk every bit of their sexual value for what it's worth just because they can. I could probably sell many of my less vital organs to the black market and make a good amount of money but that doesn't mean I should feel the need to do it.
I love this analysis. I’ve never seen this movie but now i want to. I love watching analysis video essays (especially yours) before watching the movies their about, I think it adds a level of depth and understanding to the movie I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise.
This film seems to capture what the Netflix series Baby kind of didn‘t (even though I liked it). The teenage protagoniste comes from a rich family and doesn‘t need money, but she feels powerless in an environment which needs her to be well-behaved and reputable all of the time. The double life (seemingly) allows her to take control and be more mature.
Even though the series developes in a way that puts being a sugar baby into a negative light, I found it way too stylized and cookie cutter teen drama (pretty outfits, pop soundtracks, slow-mo party scenes) to really bring the message across
I find the whole topic incredibly fascinating, thank you for introducing me to this film xx
Your accent is really pretty too
I think this picture is definitely the superior piece, hands down, also because being entirely set in Jewish culture allows both the claustrophobic aesthetic and a type of humour that fits the story perfectly.
Baby, on the other hand, since had its original script half edited (cough, censored) by Neflix US became a hybrid between a social commentary and an average teen drama. Also, the choice, to reproduce the aesthetic of the neighbourhood where the real story of the two girls took place (the parties, costumes, etc you mention), fails because not only just the people who are from or hung out in that area of Rome get the references, but also 'cause these elements are not used at the right moments as far the progression of the story and characters goes imo:not everyone can make Euphoria.
@@siracastori01 wow, I didn‘t even know that the script was edited. And it is based on a true story as well? I would have loved it as a show aimed at adults, with a bit more darkness to it. Also the insight into Italian (high) society was cool as well, I wish there were more details on that as well
@@chiaralinnea4335 Yeah, they don't advertise it obviously, but everyone in the industry in Italy knows what happened: the initial script was much grittier and close to the real story, including the girls being 14 and sought out because of this (It was a small ring, not a series of events that brought them by chance to be 'sort of escorts'), but Netflix is not HBO and if they plan on broadcasting something globally, especially in the US, they won't risk it. Look what happened with Mignonnes.
So the script that came out rushed and an unintentional hybrid of genres that, in my opinion, tells no story, real of imaginary.
Anyway, that wouldn't exactly be Italian high society for the most part, certainly not in the aesthetics; the environment is more that of 'new money show-offs'.
Also, something I never see TH-camrs bring up when talking about "reclaiming" your sexuality is that being able to profit off of it is directly tied to pretty privilege. If you're not attractive, no one will want you.
Not exactly. The sex industry is more diverse than the fashion industry. They cater to all kinds of fetishes, preferences and types. Rule 34 exists in the internet. If it exists there's porn of it. No exceptions. So even if you're not conventionally attractive you can still appeal to someone.
I dont think thats true, I think you can profit of it, but how in hell can profiting from your sexuality could ever be "reclaiming" it? At the moment that your are exchanging it it stops been yours
@@estefaniaboujon6830 The reclamation comes from being 100% in supposed control of your sexuality. It's up to you what you want to show and how much you'll charge of it. Everything is 100% your consent. Men get mad when they can't control women to do what they want.
@@HannahDecember Isnt up to you, when men pay, your sexuallity belongs to them, is not yours anymore. (Sorry if my english is bad is not my first lenguage)
@@casandra1533 But they don't literally own you. Also sex workers have to water mark their pictures so men won't try to resell their content.
(also, unrelated to the content of this video, i love the font you use in this lmao)
This is very thought-provoking. Brilliantly done. Somehow you’ve been able to voice some of the thoughts I’ve had myself but have never been able to verbalize, all the while analyzing a movie. Great work
This video popped up in my recommended and I just couldn’t miss it - I watched Shiva Baby a few months ago and wasn’t able to discuss it with anyone yet. As an asexual, it was quite interesting for me to hear your perspective. Thanks for this video!
My problem with sexwork is not the women who participate, but the men who buy it. How did we get to a point where men value women so little that they would rather pay us to be what they want us to be instead of getting to know us and treating us as people?
I think its wrong to frame it in terms of 'how did we get to this point?', sex work is arguably one of the oldest professions available to women. To take it out of that context stops us from addressing assumed female passivity within heteronormative sex, as by addressing it as a 'now' problem it seeks to blame modern sexual liberation. However, if you place it within history it becomes obvious this commodification of female sex, and hence, the wider male view towards female sexuality, is unfortunately an ingrained part of western culture. Thus, if we are to re-asses gender roles in both sex and relationships we need to be challenging the discourse around sexuality in an everyday sense in order to break these long term beliefs.
The oldest female profession was being "a doctor", not related but....just saying
@@QueenBee-pb6bt THANK YOU!!
@@sophiebrokenshire2961 Great comment.
@@QueenBee-pb6bt ? You're saying the the oldest female profession is being a doctor.... or if the joke going over my head?
Sugaring IMO has to be the least “empowering” form of sw I’ve done a few
Yo genuinely curious, which was the more empowering (or least mentally harmful), if any?
The anxiety, claustrophobic, hot/sticky nature of this film reminds me so much of Lucrecias Martel’s La Ciénaga.
Ohh that movie! Didn't know I would find someone talking about it on TH-cam ever, though
Great analysis of the soundtrack especially - I loved the analysis of how the filmmaking techniques expresses the themes - made me think! Also I thought the bisexual rep was so good in this too :) Fabulous essay also Sex Education 4 life
thanks Claire 💖 :)
This movie was excellent and you did a great job highlighting the interesting questions it brought up.
always scared n iffy when youtubers talk about sw thank god this was good
would love a take on all the french films that center on a female protagonist as sex worker/prostitute and romanticize or misrepresent the profession e.g. vivre sa vie, belle de jour, young & beautiful - I'm sure there are more
7:06 I love this part so much. Just finished my 3rd year of university and my dad still asks me what my major is semi-regularly. I was also just explaining the kind of classes I take at university to my mother just yesterday. 😆
I was one month from Graduation I had literally been in Broadcasting major with a focus in Video editing from day one my freshman year I call my Mom and she says "Awww son so is Art still your major??" I hung up in tears
I got this all the time. To the extent where my parents couldn't "match" me to potential grooms when they were discussing marriage options for me. I got offered prospectless visa hunters while my sister got offered dentists as her credentials were easier to explain/understand.
Sex work is just plain old classism because mostly poor people that do this. In rich countries that have legal prostitution there's a huge increase in trafficking because the local women are rich enough, and the social net is robust enough, they don't need to consider sex work thus the need to traffic girls from poor countries.
SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
I had a college debate for an English course about whether sex work should be legalized (thank the heavens I was given the anti-sex work stance), and found out during research that the country where I live in, which has legalized sex work, has had the amount of human trafficking RISE from poor countries since it has been legal.
@@MDonuT-of7px agreed. As a former worker I’ve seen too much to support full legalization. Opens doors for bad actors to get in and continue exploitation under the safety of gov approval. Imo if we decriminalize it for the workers *only* and work to help support them instead of punish them for the circumstances they’re in that’s the only form of “legalization” that would work.
@@MDonuT-of7px This is why its better to support gay sex work for women, then straight sex work
Until the people that make and review sex work media understand that it is the only way out of lifelong poverty and violence for some-not a fun walk on the wild side, will you get a true picture of what wealthy women are discussing as a political football
I remember being blown away at the casual presentation of bisexual characters in The Hours, simply for showing stories of people who must be real but were never talked about back in 2002. Its sad how little things have changed in that regard in the past 20 years
Finally saw this and LOVE! The way they used the sound and lighting was brilliant
This was excellent, thank you for talking about this movie..
Never heard of this film but i shall check it out now it looks so good!!
This deserves so many more views! I was blown away by this movie, and I loved hearing your take on it.
I can't believe you've done a video on Shiva Baby, I loved it so much! One of my favourite channels easily, I was actually going to suggest the film. If you're a MUBI user, I also recommend 'Princess Cyd', I think it'd really appeal to you :)
i’ll have to check that out!! it looks interesting, thanks for the recommendation :)
@@elleliteracy keep up the awesome work! It's really great to have a video essay channel covering both film and feminism :)
We can never have real sexual liberation while we live in a patriarchal society.
Preach! Even not engaging in sex with men is a male fantasy. Sucks ass. All we can do is make ourselves happy and try not to give a fuck. But you’re spot on.
@@isabellp.5730 that was a really good point
Even if we weren't under a patriarchy, there is no such thing as "sexual liberation" and if there were it would be vastly different from individual to individual therefore ending with certain women claiming other women are not truly liberated due to their decisions and they are. It works out the same no matter what, even if men didn't exist and we were all lesbians. Sex shouldn't be a movement. It's personal.
yes this has been on my mind for months now and i wrote myself a paper on this just to let out how i felt. i love ur videos btw
the picture of the first girl and her bf at 1:56 is just a filter btw, he's not actually old irl
Suffocating, a bit like an Uncut Gems for people, but way more powerful, 'cause let's be honest I've never shared much with those kinds of jewels goons. While here, it's like a soka tira match-up between what I stand for and what I tend to represent.
PS: My very first comment was very harsh and crude, though it was my life in a nutshell and the way I felt the movie, so I preferred to erase it for good. Thank you very much for your work, take care.
It’s funny because ironically enough traditionalist conservatives raised all these concerns at every step of the way
Not really. Judgement day will come isn't the consequences she's talking about.
@@AugustRx the homeless guy asking me for a cigarette on my way to work has better marketing than most conservatives but their prediction that sexual liberation will lead to more exploitation was pretty correct imo
@@jasonlu9253 lmao but watching those rants in the parliaments just talk about being a God's country
I’m happy y’all can finally have this conversation. Thank God!!
that and a lot of sex workers seem to revel in the idea that husbands/boyfriends cheat to be with them. how is it empowering for your employment to be contingent on the emotional suffering of another woman?
If sex work was so empowering, why aren't men doing it? Don't they want to be empowered too?
A lot of men do sex work
It just doesn't sell as well as womens. It isn't as common. It isn't as overanalysed
@@Sabrina-sc1db Correct. Most commonly, young men and boys sell sex to older gay men. But there are more women who buy sex, from men or women, than most of us know about. And most of those guys, regardless of their actual sexual orientation, will sleep with men or women if paid to. But men pay them more often.
because they aren’t oppressed sexually or condemned for their sexuality?
They are. Look at Netherlands. Male escorts are common 💀
@@jefrreyjeffery2192 By The Netherland's own estimations, 90% of their sex workers are female. So it's still the vast majority. And the male escorts are being purchased by other men.
Funny that there is not a single brothel on the planet that serves only female clients using male sex workers. 🤔
I just realized that “Shiva Baby” is a play on “Sugar Baby”
I love your analysis and the whole video - thx for making it
commodification of sexuality is not empowerment.
Assertion without argument.
@@zapazap commodities are ultimatley controlled by the market
@@yukijames1321 I have commodities that the market does not control.
to you.
@@lamb9770 ???
i just hate sm stories abt sugar babies are abt an upper class or rich (usually white) girl who is either doing it be she’s “vaguely sad” or as some kind of self harm/validation. it’s cheap atp like these r definitely valuable stories and i’d never say that anyone’s story is invalid because that’s not true. but if we are going to be nuanced can we REALLY be nuanced. i want to see sugar babies who LIKE their jobs(i’m one of them🤷🏽♀️) but also the journey to get to that point bc it wasn’t always an easy ride and it’s definitely not for everyone. i want to see sugar babies who need the money and maybe struggle in ways that a upper class woman couldn’t ever know because of her class. i want to see black sugar babies, trans sugar babies, fat sugar babies, CYBER SUGAR BABIES, and older sugar babies!!!! sex work is one of the only lines of work that has been more inclusive to others (for yikes reasons i will admit but still) and to wash all that history away bc it’s going mainstream now is sad. taking voices away again.
100 percent agree on thiz!!!!!
Victim
“For yikes reasons I will admit but still” that last “but still” is really telling.
I think we need to view sex work for what it is: manual labour. Would you tell a miner they're empowered? Would you tell someone picking apples they're a feminist icon? Probably not. Sex work is work and with that comes an inherent imbalance of power between employer and employee, a toll on your physical health plus the mental strain of stigma against women in sex work. There is some level of reclamation in taking what would be sexualised and selling it but it's contrasted by the psychological weight sex work has on you. Sex work is work before it is anything evil or romanticised or whatever anybody tries to paint it as, and we need people going into this field of work to understand it is a job with a stigma against it before they believe that it's some mystical empowering fairytale or a way to get attention and fulfill their own desires
Sex positivity in the mid to late 2000s thru the 2010s (the time period when 90s millenials and 90s zoomers made trends popular) was more about not shaming women for not being virgins before marriage, not shaming gals for having a lot of sex (especially cis women that have had sex with a lot of guys) or little to no sex, not shaming women for demanding to have better sexual experiences with men, treating sex workers as people instead of criminals (especially since the majority of sex workers are trans gals and gals of color - who did sex work out of necessity and not because they love it), and implementing laws to protect sex workers from abusers, reduce clients' abilities to exploit sex workers and victims (especially since most of the clients are older rich cis straight men), and reduce trafficking and crime. Sugarbabying was not really glamourized or discussed as sex work or empowering until the 2020s (the time period when 2000s zoomers made trends popular) - similar to how cosmeric surgery was not really popular to be open about having or popular to promote and glamourize until the late 2010s to the 2020s. Similar to other forms of sex work, sugarbabying did not get popular to romanticize as empowering until a bunch of cis white gals started doing it and hyping it up. Cis white gals attracted to guys are the most likely to choose to do sex work because they love it, the most likely to glamourize and romanticize sex work (as long as it is centered on white gal empowerment; they still hate and demonize non-white female sex workers), and the group of gals least harmed by the issues within and outside of the sex work world. Because of the popularity of short-form online media and the alt-right's attempts to disregard intersectional feminism and critical race theory (especially in the 2020s), a lot of nuance about the pros and cons of sex work and sugarbabying is lost on the younger gals that consume content glamourizing and romanticizing sex work and sugarbabying and a lot of then are not going to take the time to look into the issues within the sex work world and the sugar baby world or have deeper analyses of the power dynamics that occurs from young gals servicing older rich men thru sexual favors and how reliant those worlds are on female pretty privilege compared to other forms of work. [Legalization of sex work was supposed to be about fixing the issues with the systems of sex work to protect sex workers from abusive clients, reduce trafficking, and give sex work the same legal protections and rights as other forms of work - basically not glamourizing or demonizing sex work so much that it is seen as a mudane (and often dangerous) job rather than as a glamorous fantasy or a forbidden dirty secret (basically boring and lame that requires thinking about responsibilities, pros, and cons; similar to what happened once comprehensive sex education was pushed to replace abstinence-only sex education). Until society starts de-centering cis straight guys and cis-heteronormative patriarchy completely, issues within the sex work world will always occur.]
loved this film!
Ok, your video was so interesting you made me wanna watch the movie!
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with sex work, but I won't let my hypothetical children to do it. The same I won't let them do any physical work like mining, underwater diving, athletics, modelling etc. These are all 'physical work'. Things you can do when you have the physical to do it. It's best to focus on mental work/ white collar work for longevity.
this was awesome. thanks for the brilliant synopsis.
Call my old but when did prostitution morph into a feminist power play.? Traditionally it was about trading sex for money, so why criticize transactional sex as transactional?
Capitalism. If it can be bought and sold, it has value. And since patriarchy treats women like objects, they are the perfect capitalist comodity for men. It's like bigotry bingo- the worst parts of our society comming together.
I just hope more women wake up to the reality and vocalise it soon.
@@lararys7765 Hi Lara, sure, exactly 100%. I agree and also want to broaden your answer..men are prostitutes also and also..horribly are children of both sexes. My original response was trying to figure out when prostitution became ‘ empowering’ ? Was it when it was renamed sugar baby..because that’s infantilism., which to my mind at least makes it worse,
I should add that I’m 100% for someone doing whatever they want for money or with their bodies;My problem is when it’s caused by abuse.
@@lararys7765 capitalism..as it is now practiced..not as theorized..treats everyone as objects. Men are objects also.
@@adamjeffries7235 I think the biggest problem that young boys and men are facing today with regards to the sex industry is porn. Alot of kids are finding this stuff at single digit ages and that's absolutely creating an unhealthy sexuality. The brain's reward system is being hijacked for instant gratification. It's affecting their relationships in real life and their day to day living.
I know male SWers are treated like sub humans too. It's just a saving grace that it's not being marketed to boys as "empowerment" and a normal job opportunity.
@@lararys7765 thank you for educating me Lana. No one but you a person born with a uterus has such wisdom. Check the damn presumptions, ok. I’m trying to have a conversation and we already agree. This is the same arrogance you say you want to eliminate.l
Ok, as a dude, I feel so much better after watching this video and reading these comments, because I have been wondering for years if the financial aspect of sexual liberation, at least the one linked to onlyfans and sugaring and such, doesn't benefit rich straight men more than anybody. However, because I'm a guy, I just always assumed that I must be missing something, because as a guy there are things about being a woman that I am not going to understand. But it didn't make sense to me. If making sex work more socially acceptable was about empowering women, wouldn't you take the path of least resistance, and rather than telling poor girls without any job prospects that they had to become a slave for a rich guy to survive, and wouldn't it be more empowering to set up a charity for job training or college funds? I was trying to wrap my head around what exactly was the cool "girlboss" aspect of hinging your life's entire worth on pleasing some 60 year-old executive while throwing everything that made you you out of the window, and just could not find ANYTHING.
Hell, the happiest woman I have ever known has a Masters in Physics, makes more than I will for the next twenty years, and is in a "friends with benefits" situation with a former boxer who is built like a rhinoceros, and he is broke as shit. She basically owns him. He's like a sexual accessory for her XD. There are enough sad people with broken dreams. Don't aspire to be what others have as their last resort.
Be the sugar parent, not the sugar child.
I cannot begin to explain how relieved I was to find out that my original hunch was correct from the beginning.
I always assumed the sugar baby thing was an extension of sexual liberation. The idea that a women can sleep with anyone she wants without being shamed. Women are just as sexual as men, but mens sexuality is seen as more normal or acceptable. Thus, the empowering part of sexual liberation was meant to paint women's sexuality as normal.
Now, every women is different, every feminist is different. Thus the topic of wheter sugar baby is empowering or not is being debated. Can a feminist advocate for sugar babies? yes Can a feminist Not advocate for sugar babies? yes.
Really sorry I missed this, Saturdays are always the busy day at work!
I legit paused this movie because of the anxiety it built just as if I would with a horror movie.
Thanks for the review, its let me avoid a seriously stressful movie experience, too much stress for me.
Are you kidding? Does anyone seriously think that immature young women, selling their bodies, to cater to the fantasies of old men, is 'sexually empowering'? How fortunate for these men that young women have discovered their 'agency' - their wildest dreams have suddenly come true. If we have come to point where we can view such behavior with equanimity, as just women flexing their sexual power, then something is seriously wrong. These women need not be demonized, but that's a long way from celebrating their behavior as just another step in their sexual liberation. They need to grow up and get a clue, not encouraged.
I'd also add that suggesting that the life of a very confused and wealthy young white woman is a 'horror show' is just mind boggling, given the millions of women who are forced into sex work by dire economic need or violent sexual slavery. It's not just the protagonist of this film that seems to have lost her moral compass, while consumed by her own narcissistic self absorption.
Preach!
I'm so tired of people glamorizing sex work.
this is one of my favorite movies ever!
It's almost as if once you accept the inevitability of capitalism, any attempt to maximize one's effectiveness within in, however "empowering", is disgusting.
louder for absolutely everyone pls
Well
There's always the option
to
you know
get an education
@@MDonuT-of7pxfor some people, yes that is an option but that’s easier said than done for a great deal of people. It’s worth mentioning that a lot of SW is survival SW. that’s why a lot of undocumented people, minors who were runaways, addiction sufferers, or people who do not have access to certain resources take it up. Education has its costs.
@@gz5405 Yeah that's a fair point, I forget how privileged I am to live in a country with affordable Univerisites and mandatory education.
@@MDonuT-of7px it's funny that you say that because a lot of young women (think like 18/19 years old) who get into sex work do it because they have to otherwise they can't afford to go to university.
Sexual liberation does not mean everyone is free of emotional distress. Sexual liberation is more materialist: Access to contraceptives, access to safe abortions, consensual sexual relationships with adults. It is not freedom from the emotional complexities associated with sex.
I am two year late to this essay but I just watched this movie and I want to add: I love the portrayal of bisexual women in this movie as someone who grew up in orthodox Hindu home, homosexuality is really frowned upon i am still not out to my parents bc ik they are not gonna accept me (atleast now they won't) I am at the same phase as Danielle, i am young bisexual women trying to make a living with unusual major, so it's really confusing now, what I liked specifically about this movie it never really got into turmoils of being "bisexual" like I love movie based on exploring sexuality but this was fresh breath of air bc the bisexuality it's just there (never takes super centre stage) , maybe it is because I never went through that self hatred phase where I hated myself for being gay, i always knew I was and never really cared about what others thought and my fellow orthodox Hindu gay friends always asked me "how can u be so comfortable in ur sexuality without being like this is wrong" well idk i have never really had that religious prejudice even as a fairly religious person(till this day ) so this movie really fucking explained my feelings as a bisexual very well.
awesome vid!
Great video!
Brilliant analysis! This movie is so claustrophobic I don't think I could watch it. But this summary and analysis is fabulous. I also agree that it is wondefullll to get some bisexual rep where the character is not questioning their bisexuality but rather it is simply an established part of who they are. This movie clearly has a lottt of important things to say about Sugaring power dynamics, young womanhood and queerness
1:58 Omg it's Amy overby, I've been looking for her channel again for awhile now!!
I can't wait to see this movie it seems like a great movie 👍😊
it was suffocating seeing people constantly prod her with such personal questions and accusations the whole time, I kept expecting her to snap
"this isn't to say that all power gained from sex is an illusion" it is, people do it because they *need* to or if they have enough privilege to do it in their comfortable OF then there's that, but I'm really sure there is a majority that is uncomfortable with the idea of selling their bodies because they need money
The only ones who get power by sex are the buyers aka men.
River to. the Sea!
This kind of remind me of the graduate . Of when the guy graduates he dosnt know what to do . He feels like he has no control and he’s around adults who want him to do so many things and ask him what’s next ? What are you going to do . And he ends up having a affair with a older women . Mrs. Robinson but we see then that she to is stuck in a place where she can’t get out and he wants to .
In my personal opinion Sexual liberation or Feminism will mean nothing if money/ the commodifying fetish of Capitalisms is not taken down. Money and the commodification of the body by capitalisms has been the real issue behind sexual puritanicalism and women's oppressions.
That was a bunch of projective bullhshit,
this already happen BEFORE capitalism even existed, plus half of capitalism's modern problems are brought in part by *liberalism* which you seem to be apart of, cope harder queen 💅
So much talk about sexual liberation, so little talk about being liberated *from* sex.
Is it an object? Sex if sold, is an object. If compensating for something is valued or expected there's no denying the facts. Sexuality is resource. The real is real. Most of the people are not delusional - they're ignorant. The opinions in this movie and in the subsequent essay are ignorant.
i need to watch this
The walking dead season 1 score at the end gonna make me cry 😭😂
I look forward to seeing this movie
A lot of these comments imply that sex work isn’t empowering because it doesn’t create a power differential between the SB and the SD that puts the SB above the SD, but the empowerment may instead come simply from getting money, which can be incredibly empowering in and of itself, especially when coming from dire financial circumstances. It is not consentual, as it is financial coercion, but it still can take you from a lower place of power and autonomy to a higher one.
It’s not just about power dynamics though. This may be a controversial take, but female sexuality is (generally) different to a males. Shocker. Women have visceral responses to men they perceive as gross or dangerous, and sex (even if it’s a job) is still a physiologically taxing activity. Sex work is not glamorous, and a good chunk of the time it is only done out of necessity, desperation or by coercion. I feel violated everyday just by working for a big corporation in a depressing factory, I can’t imagine selling my body for some strangers sexual gratification.
6:24 ouch so true
Shiva Baby is a really hyped film. I do understand the topic of this video and it is very relevant however, I do not see that commentary in this film. Hence this is almost like an after-thought. Throughout the film the same emotion is repeated and its builds to nothing really...
Isnt sexual liberation about feeling good with your own body though? I haven't seen this movie so I can't put any argument with definite intention, so... But, like, it seems that Danielle is misunderstanding some things. As if she thinks that sexual intercorse doesn't bring any consequence, when in reality every single course of action we take brings consequences, for better or worse. Maybe shes is taking sexual relations as an escapist phantasy and then struggling t oreality once it knnocks on her door? So could this question of the effectiveness of sexual liberation be applied here?
Yeah this is something i see trending with some of my feminist friends. Maybe they also know there is nothing revolutionary about finding a sugar daddy. No man will give you most of his money so you’re not really flipping the tables. More like just leeching on. But i understand the motivation behind, it is much much much better than most job opportunities. But thats about it. It’s just an individual’s effort to push themselves to a better life. Same is true for sex work too. I dont see why they are such a big deal in feminist rhetoric.
exactly! intelexual media has a great video about sex work and the most memorable point from it for me was when she said sex work is not empowering feminism, its work. i recommend!!
This movie confused me. I felt like I couldn’t understand why anyone was making the choices they did- everyone seemed unhinged to me. After watching this video, I understand the motivation behind their decisions more, but I still don’t know why they didn’t just leave lol 🥴
This is my Letterboxd review:
You know what, I really wanted to like this to the point where I convinced myself I did but...everyone in the movie has worms in their brains! why didn’t she just leave! We know she has a phone, call an Uber! Why was her girlfriend such a weirdo! And why was everything okay at the end, I DEFINITELY would have needed to cool down for a bit after that interaction. You can’t call me a whore and then HIDE MY PHONE in what was basically a shame obstacle course and then hold my hand..we’d simply have to physically fight. Oh and the nudes!!!! Why did she do that??? I was so scared she was gonna accidentally air drop the photos to everyone there and thank god she didn’t but honestly, in her fragile state of mind she is fortunate she didn’t! AND THE BLOW JOB. Girl I am begging you to seek treatment! And why didn’t her mom suggest they leave after any of the very concerning moments they shared together??? At a certain point, I would have just sat outside with a bagel. Ya gotta know when to throw in the towel! I’m so glad I have a therapist lol.
Hey there! Guessing you’re not a Jew but correct me if I’m wrong. To answer one of your questions- sitting shiva is more than just a memorial service, it’s a community thing, and you’re not really allowed to leave lol (this’ll obviously vary with different families/places and how observant people are). That’s why they couldn’t just leave! Hopefully this comes off as helpful and not preachy, I understand why someone would have this question!
@@sam-8423 thank you for replying! You’re right, I’m Liberian, not at all Jewish 😅I knew that there were going to be some things that I wouldn’t get upon first viewing because I’m not Jewish. It helps to know she couldn’t just leave lol.
@@sam-8423 I still stand by the girlfriend thing tho- if someone called me a whore and hid my phone I would first immediately burst into tears, but then dry my eyes so I could physically fight them.
Culture is the factor im latina and for us family is a priority too i was raised like that leaving feels imposible and if u do becouse how tight the realationship is, it would only bring more problems for everyone
@@lunav4111 upon further reflection I realized I was being unreasonable. Being Liberian, I’ve often been in uncomfortable family situations and I know I wouldn’t just leave because of the commitment I have to the family/community. I guess I was just stressed after watching the movie that I was like girl you need to get outta there!! Lol I guess the movie did it’s job then!
This movie seems so stressful i was stressed watching the clips
I love your videos
Sex work is and will never be empowering. I also don't like to call it work, cause that would legitimze prostitution as a viable option for women. The thing is, for most women, it's not an option, it's something they are forced to do for multiple reasons. As a woman from the Netherlands, a country where prostitution is legal, I know that most prostitutes aren't Dutch or western European. Why not? Cause young women from the Netherlands actually have the opportunity to pursue education and would never touch it with a 10 feet pole. Go to the red light district and what you'll see is a lot, and I mean a lot, of Eastern European women.
Commentaries like this are needed, cause the illusion of sexual liberation through selling one's body being empowering is a fat lie. However, commentaries like these often fall flat when you have the narrator backtrack by making cowardice pandering excuses, or pointing out that ''some'' aspects of it can be rewarding, empowering, sexually liberating, or ''a viable path for a lot of people''. Just because it's an escape from poverty, doesn't mean that the financial freedom you might achieve is empowering. Calling prostitution sexual violence might be a bit of a hyperbole, but how else do we define women selling their bodies to men who they wouldn't have sex with if there wasn't any money involved? It's paid consent and without the money, there wouldn't be any. If that doesn't make one think and reconsider one's believes on prostitution, then I don't know what will.
Also, the whole notion of being a ''sugar baby'' and the way it's often portrayed is unrealistic, cause more often than not it's young and pretty girls from middle-class backgrounds who engage in such behaviors. We also should just call it for what it is, prostitution, only it's kinda like being a more ''high-class escort''.
The majority of this issue of Danielle engaging in sex work is that she chose someone within her community to be her sugar daddy. That's not normal and is the source of her stress and crisis
LOL i think the problem is a sexist old man seeking out a young women for pleasure while having a family....
Oh please, that's not the only problem with being a sugar baby.
I enjoyed watching these videos and learning about the stereotypes in the movie industry! I’m glad I found this channel ૮( ๑'ꇴ'๑)ა꒱
I think "sugar babying" is not "sexual liberation". for it to be liberation everyone has to be free and you have to want to be with the person not needing the money. Prostitution is not slavery nor liberation is merely survival, a means to an end (like any other job). The view on this topics seems a little bit tainted in this movie. She's portrayed as having a crush on him instead of seeing him as a sugar daddy. And in this crush she becomes hostile towards his wife, somehow making her seem responsible for the man's infidelity and her "less than feminist".
How does the movie show that she has a crush on him? I agree with the interpretation in the video, that the main character sees him as a way to make money and gain a feeling of power (which ultimately turns out to be an illusion). I think it's pretty clear from their first interaction that she mostly just wants to claim her "paycheck" and move along.
@@karolineCPH I thought it was pretty clear from her antagonizing his wife that she kind of had feelings for him.
I don’t think she has a crush on him at all. She’s just trying to use him to get her emotional needs met. And her jealousy stems from the fact that she admires the wife. She doesn’t want to be married to him, she wants to be successful like the wife
watched this movie just cause mubi would not stop playing it in ads for me and it sounded very interesting, but idk how i feel after actually watching it
English is not my native language (first language), so I thank God that in my real language, the word ''daddy'' is not necessarily linked to a sexual connotation.
Obviously, freedom exists and there are people who use the word daddy in a sexual way, but the sexual connotation is not the only one that exists. Daddy can also be used in the form of a joke with friends, in the form of affection and, of course, to call your real father in an affectionate way without incestuous connotations.
Globalization and the dominance of the English language in social media has encompassed our way of seeing the world; but I thank God for not letting the Anglo-Saxons completely dirty the term daddy in my native language.
I'm 25 years old and I say daddy to my real father in an affectionate and trusting way without thinking about how dirty that word may sound to Anglo-Saxon ears. I say it without any shame and without discomfort. I don't even think about how sexual it might sound to other people. In my language that word is closer to storge love than to eros love.
You speak a non-english language with the word, "Daddy"?
Also why do you talk about your father like he's some kind of lab experiment monkey lmao
Kind of ethnocentrist and prejudiced to assume it's 'AngloSaxons' at fault. More like, female English-*speakers* have established this as a sexual term and men have followed suit. It still sounds bad to English speakers too
The key “variable” is typically the man feeling he has “ownership” beyond a relatively straightforward transaction. The old cake and eat it too adage😅😂❤
Where can I watch this film?
Is the name of the Shiva Baby?
The sugar baby thing is NOT sexual liberation,it is prostitution. How on earth one can't distinguish between the two?
This is basically my understanding. Especially when you see that a sugar baby has multiple sugar daddies.
This is the most 2021 thing I've seen.
Using people as sexual commodity is never empowering, but to each there own.