From experience, it is better to not feed the trolls. They are just going to waste your time. They are seeking attention and arguing with them is giving them exactly what they want. Keep releasing great content and ignore the trolls for your own mental state.
Great video as always, Rob. Thanks for taking the time to break down your thoughts and methods. I've always been a sword first person (primarily, there are always exceptions) and I believe I actually learned this from working with you at a Pennsic years ago now. Speaking of, I hope I get the opportunity to work with you again. Been too long since I've been at the same event as you. Cheers!
Hi Rob, This is a bit of an unrelated comment. I'm halfway through your book and I have realised that I had not trained at all the basics of fencing during these 3 years. Most of our training is on bladework and positioning but things such as how to efficiency perform a lunge or a parry were never taught in depth. On top of that I realised I need A LOT of training to properly understand measure. I still think these 3y of Destreza were useful, but I would have liked to build these bladework and positioning techniques AFTER properly understanding how to do the fundamentals: lunge, parry and understand time and measure. Thanks for your book and videos :)
😊I also study rapier in Korea, and you are the best teacher. Your speed and accuracy are amazing. And your every move is beautiful! There are almost no rapier players in Korea😢. you are my master ❤
Thank you. That is kind of you to say. As for not having enough rapier fencers in Korea, we should see what we can do about that. I travel around all the time so if your club is willing to cover the airline ticket and a place to stay we can see about arranging a seminar for your club.
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but there was a tell throughout most of the examples. Your sword came up and paused for a fraction of a second before you attacked. The first three examples, even at normal playback speed, the raise and pause was noticeable enough that a re-alignment or reset could be forced by the opponent repositioning the sword or offhand to close off the line. It's still a fast action, but not so fast as to be unaddressable. The fourth example I'd say is about as close to "no tell" as it got--there was no hesitation on your sword moving, it was down in a low guard and then there in the person's arm, no pause or other action giving it away when compared to the first three examples.
The no tell part of that action comes by way of the opponent not having enough time to respond. The reaction time of your average athlete is 250 ms. Any movement a person makes can be seen and responded to given enough time, but the no tell part of that action happens in the hand/arm. While the body is slow the sword/hand, by contrast is fast and does not give enough time to respond. Understand?
So this is false as I did not say the sword and the body should leave at the same time on every attack. I said that both are nessasary and people to much strain on always doing sword before body. I said it's not about sword before body it's about being aware of which body part tempo you spent and using your fastest one at the right time. I also clearly stated when cutting the sword should go first. I also said if you have dealt with the threat through means of time you do not need to lead the way with the sword. Example if I have the line covered and I fient with my feet or body and they react with a parry. They have now spent thier fastest tempo and I have not. I still have my fastest tempo to then attack and the ones ones they have left are slower then mine. There is not one place I said to do it every time. The entire post I made was about how both are useful. If you had also watched the videos I posted talking about it I clearly say that alot on the videos. You definitly did not look into or understand my opinion on the matter before making this video .i also stated that you do body and sword same time more often then not. As I looked at a ton of your footage and our footage expcially in rapier and dagger you usually start the action with the body. Literally your reasons for doing body before sword I had stated in the post, I had stated it's not about one or the other it's about when to do one more then the other. I also did not menchin the no Tell Lunge once in my post.
This video is in response to the assertion that I "rarely use it", not about whether you believe it should be used every time. It is further an answer to the request you made to post video instances where I moved the sword first. As mentioned, all footage used as examples in this video come from a single tournament and I pulled nine different instances of the sword leading the way before I stopped looking anymore. To reiterate, this video is to show the phrasing I "rarely use it" is not accurate. That indeed I use it quite a lot. As we discussed offline, a more accurate phrasing would have been to say I don't use it every time. And that is because what my opponent shows as a defense plays a role in which I use.
I think in general discussions there are different definitions/ expectations about “sword moves first” and / or “sword leads the way”. To some people, the exchanges in this video are clearly “sword moves at the same time of body” because you have not fully extended your sword before starting move other parts of your body; for some other people they are all “sword moves first” because you adjusted the your point before moving your feet; or we can do as what you are doing here, analyzing the nuance differences of different cases. It’s easier to get confused in the discussion when people have different definitions of one same terms, right? 😊
They can indeed become confused--particularly when you are dealing with someone like myself who fights from a low guard. High guard swordsman can extend their arm fully without giving much--if any--tell to the action. A low guard swordsman, however, cannot raise the sword to a full extension without giving away a tell. From a low guard you align the point and can move the arm a third of the way forward (depending on the target) before you must then put the body in motion too.
This still goes with what I said about saving the full extension of the arm and that it's fine if you have the line covered or the threat dealt with properly. Vs most people saying the arm needs to be extended first. Your arm alot of times doesn extend until your knee is in the air. In this clips your arm is still extending late for the hit. Ya sure you move your tip up a little first with the wrist. But your actual arm extension for the attack is happening when your body is already in motion and in the air. The first sentence in my post said you don't need to fully extend your arm before you attack every time. That's what I was referring to when I said that you don't do that very often. Even in this clips the arm extension is happening later
@@傅思鸿 my whole post started with me saying. people's logic on sword before body is off. You don't need to fully extend you arm before you attack to cover the line everytime. You can have the line covered just by being in the proper guard and step in then thrust your arm later. Then some one said that you do need to. I think he mistook what I was saying as I said even Robert Childs almost never does thst. Meaning he almost never fully extends the arm before lunging. In all of the clips he is still thrusting the arm out for the actual attack later. I think he mistook as me saying he never does sword before body. So I think your right with it being different definition of how people define it.
The hand extension is just one more way to move the sword first. In my own practice from the low guard, sometimes this follows the positioning of the sword. Other times it does not. It is dependent upon what the situation calls for at the time. They key though is the sword is the first thing to move.
@@RobertChildsRapier I see. Generally I think these conversations revolve around hand extension then body (as prescribed by many treatises) rather than if you are moving the sword around at all.
![สั่งทอง.. จาก temu ของจริงป่ะ? ( part : 1/2 ) [โกงไหมครับ ep.94 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2tYS1qTMB78/mqdefault.jpg)
From experience, it is better to not feed the trolls. They are just going to waste your time. They are seeking attention and arguing with them is giving them exactly what they want. Keep releasing great content and ignore the trolls for your own mental state.
That was informative. Showing how it is intended to be used in context with other techniques. 👍
Great video as always, Rob. Thanks for taking the time to break down your thoughts and methods. I've always been a sword first person (primarily, there are always exceptions) and I believe I actually learned this from working with you at a Pennsic years ago now. Speaking of, I hope I get the opportunity to work with you again. Been too long since I've been at the same event as you. Cheers!
I've been crazy busy the last few years but I will indeed be at Pennsic this year. Hope to see you there!
Hi Rob,
This is a bit of an unrelated comment. I'm halfway through your book and I have realised that I had not trained at all the basics of fencing during these 3 years. Most of our training is on bladework and positioning but things such as how to efficiency perform a lunge or a parry were never taught in depth.
On top of that I realised I need A LOT of training to properly understand measure.
I still think these 3y of Destreza were useful, but I would have liked to build these bladework and positioning techniques AFTER properly understanding how to do the fundamentals: lunge, parry and understand time and measure.
Thanks for your book and videos :)
Quite welcome.
😊I also study rapier in Korea, and you are the best teacher. Your speed and accuracy are amazing. And your every move is beautiful! There are almost no rapier players in Korea😢. you are my master ❤
Thank you. That is kind of you to say. As for not having enough rapier fencers in Korea, we should see what we can do about that. I travel around all the time so if your club is willing to cover the airline ticket and a place to stay we can see about arranging a seminar for your club.
@@RobertChildsRapier we dont have club for rapier yet. but someday i will ask to you. thanks! it will be fantastic
@@HRmocap Well, if you ever come to California be sure and stop by. I'm sure we can get in a lesson or two. :)
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but there was a tell throughout most of the examples. Your sword came up and paused for a fraction of a second before you attacked. The first three examples, even at normal playback speed, the raise and pause was noticeable enough that a re-alignment or reset could be forced by the opponent repositioning the sword or offhand to close off the line. It's still a fast action, but not so fast as to be unaddressable. The fourth example I'd say is about as close to "no tell" as it got--there was no hesitation on your sword moving, it was down in a low guard and then there in the person's arm, no pause or other action giving it away when compared to the first three examples.
The no tell part of that action comes by way of the opponent not having enough time to respond. The reaction time of your average athlete is 250 ms. Any movement a person makes can be seen and responded to given enough time, but the no tell part of that action happens in the hand/arm. While the body is slow the sword/hand, by contrast is fast and does not give enough time to respond. Understand?
So this is false as I did not say the sword and the body should leave at the same time on every attack. I said that both are nessasary and people to much strain on always doing sword before body. I said it's not about sword before body it's about being aware of which body part tempo you spent and using your fastest one at the right time. I also clearly stated when cutting the sword should go first. I also said if you have dealt with the threat through means of time you do not need to lead the way with the sword. Example if I have the line covered and I fient with my feet or body and they react with a parry. They have now spent thier fastest tempo and I have not. I still have my fastest tempo to then attack and the ones ones they have left are slower then mine. There is not one place I said to do it every time. The entire post I made was about how both are useful. If you had also watched the videos I posted talking about it I clearly say that alot on the videos. You definitly did not look into or understand my opinion on the matter before making this video .i also stated that you do body and sword same time more often then not. As I looked at a ton of your footage and our footage expcially in rapier and dagger you usually start the action with the body. Literally your reasons for doing body before sword I had stated in the post, I had stated it's not about one or the other it's about when to do one more then the other. I also did not menchin the no Tell Lunge once in my post.
This video is in response to the assertion that I "rarely use it", not about whether you believe it should be used every time. It is further an answer to the request you made to post video instances where I moved the sword first. As mentioned, all footage used as examples in this video come from a single tournament and I pulled nine different instances of the sword leading the way before I stopped looking anymore. To reiterate, this video is to show the phrasing I "rarely use it" is not accurate. That indeed I use it quite a lot. As we discussed offline, a more accurate phrasing would have been to say I don't use it every time. And that is because what my opponent shows as a defense plays a role in which I use.
I think in general discussions there are different definitions/ expectations about “sword moves first” and / or “sword leads the way”.
To some people, the exchanges in this video are clearly “sword moves at the same time of body” because you have not fully extended your sword before starting move other parts of your body; for some other people they are all “sword moves first” because you adjusted the your point before moving your feet; or we can do as what you are doing here, analyzing the nuance differences of different cases.
It’s easier to get confused in the discussion when people have different definitions of one same terms, right? 😊
They can indeed become confused--particularly when you are dealing with someone like myself who fights from a low guard. High guard swordsman can extend their arm fully without giving much--if any--tell to the action. A low guard swordsman, however, cannot raise the sword to a full extension without giving away a tell. From a low guard you align the point and can move the arm a third of the way forward (depending on the target) before you must then put the body in motion too.
This still goes with what I said about saving the full extension of the arm and that it's fine if you have the line covered or the threat dealt with properly. Vs most people saying the arm needs to be extended first. Your arm alot of times doesn extend until your knee is in the air. In this clips your arm is still extending late for the hit. Ya sure you move your tip up a little first with the wrist. But your actual arm extension for the attack is happening when your body is already in motion and in the air. The first sentence in my post said you don't need to fully extend your arm before you attack every time. That's what I was referring to when I said that you don't do that very often. Even in this clips the arm extension is happening later
@@傅思鸿 my whole post started with me saying. people's logic on sword before body is off. You don't need to fully extend you arm before you attack to cover the line everytime. You can have the line covered just by being in the proper guard and step in then thrust your arm later. Then some one said that you do need to. I think he mistook what I was saying as I said even Robert Childs almost never does thst. Meaning he almost never fully extends the arm before lunging. In all of the clips he is still thrusting the arm out for the actual attack later. I think he mistook as me saying he never does sword before body. So I think your right with it being different definition of how people define it.
May I ask what is the rapier you use?
It is called a twisted swepthilt. First purchased around 33 years ago.
Are you HEMA trained, or have you had classical/Olympic style fencing?
Started out in Olympic when I was a teenager. Then moved on to SCA and HEMA after that.
You consider your preparation of bringing your sword online as part of the hand extension of the attack?
The hand extension is just one more way to move the sword first. In my own practice from the low guard, sometimes this follows the positioning of the sword. Other times it does not. It is dependent upon what the situation calls for at the time. They key though is the sword is the first thing to move.
@@RobertChildsRapier I see. Generally I think these conversations revolve around hand extension then body (as prescribed by many treatises) rather than if you are moving the sword around at all.