I can understand what your saying about world building but it seems that missed quite a few details about the dragon ball story. The Red Ribbon army did not have time travel, future Bulma created it and sent Trunks to warn everyone in the present, but they (bulma and trunks) were foolish to think it would change their world by going to the past, it just created a new timeline instead. The story does not start with the saiyan saga, it starts with the Pilaf saga. In which we see the Red Ribbon Army later after Pilaf in which Goku destroyed the army nearly single handedly, obviously the army would want revenge at some point we just dont know when (obviously it's the androids and cell sagas). Plus they gave an explanation of drones that gather data on every fighter for many years, this is why these androids are so strong, Gero was a super genius that we never saw before but we saw one of his androids in the RRA Saga with Android 8. Besides all that, Toriyama was writing this stuff in time constrains and made up the story as he went along, which has its pros and cons. Sorry for the long rant, have a good day.
One important thing - the vid is about Z. Z start with Raditz. Introducing time travel creates a mount everest of problems if you are not very carefull (that is why there is so few shows that actually do it right). And if what you're saying is true and my memory betrays me then i have different questions: -If they did not in fact travel back in time - Why didn't Trunks himself go back in time even futher? -Why they did not use this time machine to keep going back in time and locate the laboratory where those Androids are being created and destroy them before they are ready? -Why Trunks would not do the same thing that i said in the vid for the androids, so go back in time, recruit them, go back in time with them and then have like 10x the Z fighters to fight the androids? -Ok, Dr. Gero is a Genius but if we introduced the concept of... you know... Space and alien life then how is that there was no such person in cosmos with even better androids? (they could have collected data from Frieza) -How collecting data on how someone fight makes you create someone who is also extremly strong, can fly no problem, have super powers and does not require some kind of power? I could go on and on but that is the issue with time travel. Anyway, don't apologize i have no problem discussing subjects of the video as long as it's a healthy disagreement. :) Have a good day
@@lordtea7688 well I wont be able to fully awnser some of these questions cuz they dont really get brought up in the show, but I can try at least. Yes I understand ya wanted to talk about Z but we cant say we didn't know about the Red Ribbon Army unless ya only watched Z and not the stuff from before (which has happened for many people). Trunks and F. Bulma were naive when it came to time travel, considering it was there first time and all, they probably thought going too back far in time would cause too many more changes, lol Also if I remember correctly, Trunks only has enough fuel for 2 maybe 4 trips, so he can't just go back and forth whenever he wants. The closest thing I can think of for anyone else in space making more powerful androids is Dr. Myu from Dragon Ball GT, which he made Baby (not an android but still made with science). When it comes to the science in dragon ball, it's already has more high tech then us, Bulma is not the only scientist in the universe, ya can add her father, Gero, Weelo, Myu, Senbei (Dr. Slump), and other people that we dont see, like we dont know who made the saiyan technology exactly. But yeah it can't be too farfetched to assume somebody can emulate the Z Warriors strength at some point, mad men are more likely to make ultra powerful weaponry that can backfire on themselves, which it did when his androids killed him. It can be argued whether Bulma is smarter than Gero, or the other way around. Those drones I mentioned btw, they didn't get to Namek if I remember correctly, they only got data from Frieza when he landed on Earth. And here's some details for the forms Frieza has, the 3 forms before the final form are actually forms he created to make himself weaker, like a reverse Super Saiyan. It's so he doesn't use up lots of power on trivial things or accidentally destroying a planet. Obviously the 3rd form is a Xenomorph reference, which I liked too. Lolz I agree, with having a good conversation and not a toxic yelling match, have a good day
I never said that we didn't know about RRA (i did watched DB but not fully and when i was much younger then when i watched DBZ) Sure, but since Bulma created the Time Travel Capsule couldn't she give Trunks the manual to manufacture more fuel that he could give past Bulma when he go back in time? Time Travel overall is a narrative tool that can cause countless problems, also i don't want to write like 5 page long question list but that's how many questions time travel creates. Also when i spoke about drones scanning Frieza on Namek i was referring to other potential scientists in space since we know that Tech in space is far more advanced than on Earth and since space is... you know, endless then why would noone else create beings far more powerfull than earth androids since they seem to be more powerfull than Frieza (especially Cell after consuming other androids). Also, hot take but i actually liked GT, not from the storytelling percpective but the worldbuilding there was much stronger and more interesting than DB or DBZ. I didn't say that i don't understand Frieza's form, i just gave my take on how i would change them to make the fights more interesting and engaging.
@@lordtea7688 I agree with your hot take on GT. I liked how the fact that the main cast was using the dragon balls so much that the negative energy from those wishes became their enemy. I also think i have some answers to some of the scenarios you said. So for the time travel scenario i'm pretty sure it will be useless since future bulma doesnt know the location of the lab ( i'm assuming you are talking about having more fuel so they go to the lab before 17&18 are created and destroy the lab) . We can confirm she doesn't know the location because in the main timeline. Trunks was talking about his future and Bulma had no idea what he was talking about and suggested to use the dragon balls to find the lab. Then 3 years later when android 20 attacks the city she gives the general area of geros lab to the main cast. Based on this we can confirm she goes to learn the general location during the 3 year time skip because she knows the threat that awaits. Future bulma wont know the location since in their timeline there was no trunks to warn them about the androids so she wont know to search for gero's lab. For your issue about time travel all your problems should be solved with the multi-timeline theory. We can confirm this because when trunks goes back to the future after cell is killed.17&18 were still alive. This proves changing the past doesnt change the future hence we know its the multi-timeline theory. Basically when trunks travels to the past. He doesnt go to the past in his timeline but to a past in another timeline which happened to be the main timeline. For your drone question it is solved by the galatic patrol. (spoilers) In the manga the galatic patrol captured android 7-3 who can copy any ability in a second.im sure merus did all the work since the galatic patrol feared frieza so we know they arent that strong. Anyways i appreciate how this is just a nice conversation and not a full argument .
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I can understand what your saying about world building but it seems that missed quite a few details about the dragon ball story.
The Red Ribbon army did not have time travel, future Bulma created it and sent Trunks to warn everyone in the present, but they (bulma and trunks) were foolish to think it would change their world by going to the past, it just created a new timeline instead.
The story does not start with the saiyan saga, it starts with the Pilaf saga. In which we see the Red Ribbon Army later after Pilaf in which Goku destroyed the army nearly single handedly, obviously the army would want revenge at some point we just dont know when (obviously it's the androids and cell sagas). Plus they gave an explanation of drones that gather data on every fighter for many years, this is why these androids are so strong, Gero was a super genius that we never saw before but we saw one of his androids in the RRA Saga with Android 8.
Besides all that, Toriyama was writing this stuff in time constrains and made up the story as he went along, which has its pros and cons.
Sorry for the long rant, have a good day.
One important thing - the vid is about Z.
Z start with Raditz.
Introducing time travel creates a mount everest of problems if you are not very carefull (that is why there is so few shows that actually do it right).
And if what you're saying is true and my memory betrays me then i have different questions:
-If they did not in fact travel back in time - Why didn't Trunks himself go back in time even futher?
-Why they did not use this time machine to keep going back in time and locate the laboratory where those Androids are being created and destroy them before they are ready?
-Why Trunks would not do the same thing that i said in the vid for the androids, so go back in time, recruit them, go back in time with them and then have like 10x the Z fighters to fight the androids?
-Ok, Dr. Gero is a Genius but if we introduced the concept of... you know... Space and alien life then how is that there was no such person in cosmos with even better androids? (they could have collected data from Frieza)
-How collecting data on how someone fight makes you create someone who is also extremly strong, can fly no problem, have super powers and does not require some kind of power?
I could go on and on but that is the issue with time travel.
Anyway, don't apologize i have no problem discussing subjects of the video as long as it's a healthy disagreement. :)
Have a good day
@@lordtea7688
well I wont be able to fully awnser some of these questions cuz they dont really get brought up in the show, but I can try at least.
Yes I understand ya wanted to talk about Z but we cant say we didn't know about the Red Ribbon Army unless ya only watched Z and not the stuff from before (which has happened for many people).
Trunks and F. Bulma were naive when it came to time travel, considering it was there first time and all, they probably thought going too back far in time would cause too many more changes, lol
Also if I remember correctly, Trunks only has enough fuel for 2 maybe 4 trips, so he can't just go back and forth whenever he wants.
The closest thing I can think of for anyone else in space making more powerful androids is Dr. Myu from Dragon Ball GT, which he made Baby (not an android but still made with science).
When it comes to the science in dragon ball, it's already has more high tech then us, Bulma is not the only scientist in the universe, ya can add her father, Gero, Weelo, Myu, Senbei (Dr. Slump), and other people that we dont see, like we dont know who made the saiyan technology exactly. But yeah it can't be too farfetched to assume somebody can emulate the Z Warriors strength at some point, mad men are more likely to make ultra powerful weaponry that can backfire on themselves, which it did when his androids killed him. It can be argued whether Bulma is smarter than Gero, or the other way around.
Those drones I mentioned btw, they didn't get to Namek if I remember correctly, they only got data from Frieza when he landed on Earth.
And here's some details for the forms Frieza has, the 3 forms before the final form are actually forms he created to make himself weaker, like a reverse Super Saiyan. It's so he doesn't use up lots of power on trivial things or accidentally destroying a planet. Obviously the 3rd form is a Xenomorph reference, which I liked too. Lolz
I agree, with having a good conversation and not a toxic yelling match, have a good day
I never said that we didn't know about RRA (i did watched DB but not fully and when i was much younger then when i watched DBZ)
Sure, but since Bulma created the Time Travel Capsule couldn't she give Trunks the manual to manufacture more fuel that he could give past Bulma when he go back in time? Time Travel overall is a narrative tool that can cause countless problems, also i don't want to write like 5 page long question list but that's how many questions time travel creates.
Also when i spoke about drones scanning Frieza on Namek i was referring to other potential scientists in space since we know that Tech in space is far more advanced than on Earth and since space is... you know, endless then why would noone else create beings far more powerfull than earth androids since they seem to be more powerfull than Frieza (especially Cell after consuming other androids).
Also, hot take but i actually liked GT, not from the storytelling percpective but the worldbuilding there was much stronger and more interesting than DB or DBZ.
I didn't say that i don't understand Frieza's form, i just gave my take on how i would change them to make the fights more interesting and engaging.
@@lordtea7688 I agree with your hot take on GT. I liked how the fact that the main cast was using the dragon balls so much that the negative energy from those wishes became their enemy. I also think i have some answers to some of the scenarios you said.
So for the time travel scenario i'm pretty sure it will be useless since future bulma doesnt know the location of the lab ( i'm assuming you are talking about having more fuel so they go to the lab before 17&18 are created and destroy the lab) . We can confirm she doesn't know the location because in the main timeline. Trunks was talking about his future and Bulma had no idea what he was talking about and suggested to use the dragon balls to find the lab. Then 3 years later when android 20 attacks the city she gives the general area of geros lab to the main cast. Based on this we can confirm she goes to learn the general location during the 3 year time skip because she knows the threat that awaits. Future bulma wont know the location since in their timeline there was no trunks to warn them about the androids so she wont know to search for gero's lab.
For your issue about time travel all your problems should be solved with the multi-timeline theory. We can confirm this because when trunks goes back to the future after cell is killed.17&18 were still alive. This proves changing the past doesnt change the future hence we know its the multi-timeline theory. Basically when trunks travels to the past. He doesnt go to the past in his timeline but to a past in another timeline which happened to be the main timeline.
For your drone question it is solved by the galatic patrol. (spoilers) In the manga the galatic patrol captured android 7-3 who can copy any ability in a second.im sure merus did all the work since the galatic patrol feared frieza so we know they arent that strong.
Anyways i appreciate how this is just a nice conversation and not a full argument .
Good video.