Engage's "Don't Speak Her Name" Segment Is A COMPLETE DISASTER!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Here is the Pavise video I mentioned regarding that choice in Awakening and player choice in general: • Fire Emblem Awakening ...
I must admit....I feel very strongly about what I say in this video in comparison to other videos....That might be why this video can come across as a bit more negative and serious than usual at certain points....Not that that's necessarily a bad thing its just something different....But don't worry. The tone for the next video will be much more lighthearted.
And regardless of my feelings, I am of course open to discussion. In fact I welcome it. If you think Awakenings Don't Speak Her Name segment sucks, and Engage's is an underrated masterpiece, let me know why in the comments as I'm super curious as to why that may be. There always could be something small that I'm overlooking that re-contextualizes everything. It could open my eyes and see everything in a whole new light. Or in general, I just enjoy talking about this stuff so whatever your opinion is, don't hesitate to share it!
But at the end of the day, I hope you all enjoy or at least get something out of this video. I still have 3 more big Engage video's to make, and then I will finally return to the content I was making before 3 hopes and Engage came out.
See you all next time :)
Wow this is awesome! Thank you all so much for watching and commenting. I definitely appreciate all the feedback, as it’ll help me make better content in the future.
I’ll admit, I did get a bit carried away when talking about Engages chapter 11. Perhaps comparing it directly to awakenings chapter 10 wasn’t the best decision, as while there are similarities, they do go for different things. And yea I definitely see now engage was going for a more hopeless tone, which it does succeed at achieving.
As for awakening chapter 10, I really did not do the best at articulating the point I was trying to make at all. I don’t wanna put a huge wall of txt here, but I’ll respond to the comments that point it out and go into more detail there.
In essence, yea this video could’ve been done a lot better lol.
In engage's chapter 11 you're not supposed to feel sad, you're supposed to feel weak and powerless
That's the whole point for that map, to make you feel weak and powerless, those rings that trivialized most of the maps? Well, they are gone, you only have 2 and you need to keep them, also, you are being hunt down. Enjoy escaping.
And then the Solm's map are there to make you feel better because on how lighthearted they are, a breath of fresh air
@@CrabKFPunless you got the dlc
Yeah taking away the time ring was effective in building tension….. till they gave it to us same chapter. Thing is emblems aren’t characters but tools so we don’t form a emotional connection. Having the blanket of being able to rewind time makes the run away part feel less hectic. Like I remember checking to see if I could body the hounds fail and be like ah I see rewind time just run away. So while you’re right at what they tried to do. To me it just felt like I was losing my Pokémon’s. The only effective twist was no time ring. After I was given that back felt about just as strong before.
IDK, Veyle being evil felt like a "betrayal, feel sad" moment to me. And I feel like you're supposed to feel sad for the Emblems too.
I was so sad when Awakening didn't let me spare Mufasa. He's my favorite side character.
Fun fact the project thabes (or however it's spelled) mod let's him survive and joins you and he has a support chain with Robin and gangrel
Only focusing on one part of the video, specifically about the “sudden deaths” part.
It’s the same situation with Lumera, she just says “Hey, you’ve been asleep for a millennia and I’m your mom!” then dies randomly a prologue and two chapters later. There’s no impact to be felt if you introduce those characters then kill them off suddenly. This is just my opinion and everyone’s thoughts on the matter are subjective, but I genuinely can’t feel anything for the “sad” scenes during the first-half of the game.
Aside from that I also don’t see much for comparison between both sequences, they’re different in tone… I felt like you stretched a little to compare both when you could have focused on Engage alone. The environment was more akin to “we need to run, we can’t suffer any more losses” like Chapter 6 of the Manster Escape arc from FE5. You’re constantly being hunted down with powerful enemies at your back (The Four Hounds/Veyle compared to Galzus) while generics slow you down.
(I also wouldn’t mind if you kept this type of content along with the others, it gives more variety to the channel… if you’re open to criticism of course.)
That is really handpicked way of interpreting emeryln death. First we did have more cutscene’s establishing character. We get a clear picture of her character cause chorm joins our party earlier and gives us insight to the type of person emeryn is. Her death also way less sudden as the moment you meet morion he foreshadowing his death nor does his character get any time to shine. His whole thing is to be imposing yet dude gets bodied the only time we see him fight.
@@rances4418Wrong comment? I have no idea what you’re talking about, sorry. Agreed though
Yea I see now i might’ve been a bit too hasty in directly comparing them, because while there are a lot of similarities, they do ultimately go for different things.
and yea I definitely appreciate constructive criticism as it will help me see things I might’ve missed, and help improve my content in the future.
Me after hearing all about leif's character then suddenly seeing Engage gameplay:
DIRT IN MY DESSERT😢
I'm not sure I agree with your take on Chrom's actions. No, we are not the aggressors. We are fleeing and surrounded by an army. Yes, there's a cutscene that shows Mustafa would rather not carry out his orders...but he will. He has to. And his men chose to fight, if not for their king, then for their general. Mustafa offering us mercy if we surrender isn't very meaningful when he cannot guarantee that mercy and surrender isn't an option now that Chrom and Lissa are the future of their halidom. Mustafa has no option but to fight, and Chrom also has no option but to fight. Despite Emm's words, ideals, and intent, sometimes there's only one way through to your goals. Gangrel makes it clear that nothing except war will stop him.
But Chrom is a soldier. He solves problems through war. It's not that he's killing soldiers in anger. It's that they are enemy soldiers and this happens to be a problem Chrom knows how to solve. Specifically, Gangrel is a problem Chrom knows the solution to.
Perhaps using the word “aggressors” was the wrong way of putting it. But I don’t think either side in this chapter is innocent. But they aren’t necessarily guilty either. It’s just an unfortunate situation.
I really like your characterization of chrom tho as “it’s a problem he knows how to solve.” That definitely re-contextualizes his view of himself as “deaths agent.”
Still, I feel like it can work both ways. Even if he’s not given any choice but to fight, and even if what he’s doing is necessary to solve the problem (which I agree that is what’s happening), that doesn’t mean he’s not also using that as justification to take his anger out on the plegians in this chapter.
Which is completely understandable considering what happened….but still….it’s a darker side of his character that I feel isn’t talked about often. I like to interpret his character that way because it shows that even someone with the most noble ideals would still be willing to throw those away when pushed hard enough.
I don't really see myself agreeing, at least with the points you made about Engage, mainly because I feel like they were extremely subjective. I had a completely opposite experience from what you described when I got to Engage Ch11, and it stands as one of the best moments in the entire game in my opinion.
You might be underselling Morion. I personally thought he was pretty cool, as did a lot of people I know, and even though I've become genre-savvy enough to predict that he was going to succumb to FE parent syndrome, I found his interactions with his sons and how he sets them up as characters very endearing, to the point where I can honestly say I felt his loss even though I saw it coming a mile away. Diamant's and especially Alcryst's boss quotes with him in Ch10 definitely help.
I also don't agree with the fact that you ruled out the loss of the Emblems as a reason for why the player might be sad or at least distraught. This is definitely a me thing, but as someone who's played every game in the series at least twice and is completely insane about the series, Engage was an opportunity for me to get reattached to a lot of these characters, mainly in gameplay. And then Ch11 happened and completely flipped the script.
To me, the main thing Ch11 accomplishes is a big reversal with massive implications on gameplay. I'm a Jugdral stan; FE4 is my favorite game in the series without question, and FE5 is a close second. Those two games were really the only ones that gave the player a swift kick in the nuts and told them to deal with it, and I think that's pretty cool. The generational split of FE4 and the end of FE5's Ch3 are massive moments in those games, not just because of their narrative impact, but also because of their gameplay implications, and that's why they hit hard. Engage Ch11 gave me this same feeling and was the only FE game outside of Jugdral to do so.
Also as an aside, this might be petty of me, but I skipped the entire segment where you talked about where Leif should've been the one who told Alear to retreat instead of Marth. It seems like a really random and weird hill to die on, and I think a tangent like that can take away from your main point, especially when you spend that much time on it.
I want to stress that at the end of the day, we all have different experiences and perspectives, so I'm not trying to invalidate your experience. I just happened to have a significantly more positive one than you presented.
Uhhh sorry for the wall of text xd
Nah all good I definitely appreciate the feedback :)
We’ll have to agree to disagree on Morion. It’s a subjective thing, I just found his interactions with his sons a bit generic and uninteresting, so that combined with what I said in the vid made him fall a bit flat for me.
As for the loss of the emblems, I definitely see how gameplaywise fans of the series can connect to the characters in the ring. Hell, I thought it was super cool seeing all these abilities come back from their respective game. But for me personally, I needed a bit more than that. I wanted to see at least a little bit of the depth the characters from their games be added. You kind of get that in the paralogues, but it’s just not enough IMO.
Which brings me to that Leif/marth segment. Yea re-watching this I spend way too long talking about that. I was partially trying to indicate my general frustration of the other emblems besides Marth and Sigurd being extremely underutilized. But yea this was not the video to do that as i agree it just distracts from the main point and that’s a completely different topic.
As for what engage ch11 accomplishes, yea i completely agree and that was something that just flew over my head admittedly. The story/gameplay integration is done very well, and the game does do a good job in making the player feel hopeless. I think I was trying too hard to compare it directly to the sequence in awakening and judge it by the same metrics, when yea they are trying to do completely different things.
So all in all I appreciate everyone’s perspective here, it did at the very least make me look at engage in a new light.
Its amazing how many good ideas engage had but wasted or flopped with bad writing. this chapter is a prime example, given how childish the precursur to the chapter is where evil bad guy steals the plot device bc magic. And alear throws a overly-dramatic hissyfit.
I do agree with the top comment though. The chapter isnt designed to make you feel grief quite like it does for chrom and the conflicted plegian army. Its not quite fair to compare them.
It's admittedly been forever since I played Awakening, but I don't think I ever felt any attachment to Emeryn.
She was just "nice sister." I don't recall her driving the plot outside this chapter (I could be mistaken), and in terms of gameplay, she as an NPC to keep safe in one mission.
Then Awakening decided they wanted to make a tragedy happen. But they ran into an issue. The easiest characters to get attached to are the characters you're relying on to get you through the maps. But losing them is both unfair and upsetting, so Awakening decided to play it safe and kill off an NPC.
As far as the intent for Engage to invoke sadness, yes to an extent. Although as some others have commented, it's more about helplessness.
Still, a few things it did get right.
While Morion spent very little time active in the plot, he's an essential part of giving a fresh set of characters a story for the segment of the game.
Each country in the game has a set of plot relevant playable characters other than the protagonists. Mainly Diamant here, but Alcryst and the retainers to a lesser extent. Most Fire Emblem characters have their plot relevance end when they get recruited (perma-death makes relying on them tricky.)
Rekilling Morion is actually something the player is responsible for doing. That's more personal than Emeryn just deciding to jump off a cliff.
As far as emotional attachment to the Emblems, yeah. Engage really dropped the ball here. Listening to their support dialog is dull at best, painful at worst. Plus, they've got nothing going for them in terms of plot. From the game's announcement, I knew their inclusion was a mistake.
It definitely feels like some of the writers felt that way too, and that's why they're treated more as objects than characters most of the time. I was glad to see more focus given to the actual new characters.
But you know what? You could actually feel the loss playing the game. No more moving 10 tiles with Sigurd, instantly deleting enemies with Marth, warp skipping the map with Micaiah, etc. And that absence was felt for many, many chapters to come.
Emeryn's absence was a plot only absence. Starting with the very next chapter, I'd basically forgotten she existed. I mostly just remembered the fantastic music.
idk why but engage's story feels more rushed than anything else and hence making it an absolute pile of shit, its like they made some great maps with great gameplay features and had like 1 or 2 days left to come up with a plot
I don't think it's fair to compare the two really. Yes they try similar things in concept, but their execution and purpose are completely different.
In Awakening you fight through enemies trying to save Emmeryn.
While in Engage the purpose of the chapter is to avenge Morion after figuring out he's been corrupted.
Awakening is about the urgency of the situation, with Emmeryn almost being executed.
While in Engage it's already too late and the fight is more about Diamant and Alcryst wanting to take revenge on their fathers killers and putting him to rest.
Their following chapters aren't very similar either, one is a defeat boss map while the other's an escape map.
Awakening is more like Engages chapter in the cathedral than the chapter you compare it to. Having you fight through people out of rage and not being in the right mindset at the time. Awakening is about having you questioning your own actions with you killing people who don't want to fight you.
While Engage is about your own failure and about having lost your most powerful asset in combat. Not to mention taking away your turn wheel in a game where you probably got used to relying on it for the previous 7 chapters.
And I don't think Morion or the Emblems are supposed to be a substitude to Emmeryn from Awakening.
Morion isn't the character Emmeryn was and he's not designed to be, if they wanted to replicate Emmeryn they could've used Alfred and Celines mother Eve, she's introduced earlier and is pretty much the same as Morion in terms of importance. Yet they didn't do that, because that wasn't the plan.
And of course we know that we get the Emblems back, the point is that we lose them in the first place. How many Fire Emblem games give you an insanely overpowered mechanic only to take it away after the first third of the game? You know you get them back, but you also know at the beginning that you will get all twelve by the end, is getting Emblems pointless because you know you would've got them by the end of the game anyway?
I mean I get it, it's not sad, you didn't permanently lose anything you care about. But that's not what this is about, just because Engages chapters feel similar to Awakening doesn't mean they're supposed to fill the same role.
Engage might not have an emotional death that defines the story moving forward. But that wasn't the intention the first place.
Engages escape map is about running away from your own failure and having all the power you aquired up until that point stripped away from you and having it used against you.
Engage isn't a story masterpiece, far from it, but at least I felt in the gameplay how the gravity of the situation has changed.
In Awakening as great a story point Emmeryns suicide may be, her death doesn't do anything to the gameplay. Emmeryn wasn't a playable unit and being thrown out of the story to potentially grind, buy items or do paralogues between the chapters felt weird.
Awakening has a great story moment but the gameplay doesn't compare to how Engage makes you feel powerless after losing both your strongest asset in combat and your turn wheel for the first time since you got them both.
I do however agree that Leif should've been given more than he got in the story.
Yea i see now comparing these two sequences directly to each other was a bit misguided as they do different things and shouldn’t be judged on the same metric.
For what engage was going for, I think a lot of it might’ve been lost on me because personally, I didn’t find chapter 11 too challenging (I actually thought chapter 10 was much harder lol) so the helpless vibe might’ve gone over my head. But I see what everyone’s saying and understand the story/gameplay integration thing it was going for now.
And yea seeing the enemies use the overpowered stuff you were using on you is really cool…. and scary.
@@woltsvault6698 I mean it's fine, your arguments weren't bad exactly. I believe Awakening has the better chapters. But as we all know Engage is less about story and more about gameplay.
I can't exactly fault you for not appreciating plot points in a story that was written rather generic and poorly at times. I usually think story is far more important than gameplay, so I can empathize with your points.
I do however dislike comparing things between games if it's not necessary, especially because bias towards one side when comparing is rather obvious and can make you look like a salty person being mad about not every game being exactly what you want.
I for one keep my expectations low as a result.
But hey the video wasn't bad and if you can see how others might feel different and respect it, then I will respect your opinions in turn.
While I also disliked this engage chapter. Have to admit this should of been leif criticism was weak. Marth is the emblem with the closest relationship to divine dragon and Like you just said we only just got leif.
Yea I fumbled a bit there. In fire emblem engages story specifically in how things are set up, i can see how it makes the most sense for marth to speak to alear here.
I guess what I was trying to get at is I wish things were set up a bit differently so the other emblems besides Marth and Sigurd could play a bigger role in the narrative.
the map is pretty good + i like the music i remember during my first blind madening run i tried to turtle the map and got crushed again and again and yes dlc just break the game who would've thought ? If u d u give like 4 powerfull weapons (other than the brave lance and haxe) than well i bet thracia's manster would be way easier.
Imagine 1sec than u could stat boost nanna and make her a viable nosferatu when u get her. Or if leif could farm all 4 and 4x because u had 3 speedwings and 4 draco shields and dont even get me started on asbel.
On a gameplay level, this chapter is amazing. removing your rings that most new players really relied on to even progress, and giving them to the enemy just to really show how much you were being carried and how screwed. Engage had a really mediocre story but I don't think it was attempting to replicate Chapter 11 of awakening, rather just reference it.
Hey! Marth is super important, Mercurius lets me reach level 11/4 on Alear before chapter 9!
Ok let's be serious. I'll start with the positive, the gameplay does a good job in making you feel overwhelmed. The enemies aren't weak, not having the time crystal makes them more dangerous and even if you find a way to annihilate them, you most likely won't beat the hounds. In Awakening you kinda destroy everything so I always forget that we are supposed to be the weaker side.
Now for the "meh" part, let's say you defeat the hounds. Veyle is immortal so she is gonna chase you, right? Right? ...
I have an idea that could make this scenario better and I'll take a page from Triangle Strategy. There is this super strong fighter that defeats your whole party in a cutscene, and later he becomes an extremely strong green NPC, easily the most powerful unit on the chapter bar none. Do the same thing with Morion, make him an almost unstoppable juggernaut that can defeat groups of normal enemies in ch9 with just some support from us. Then do the same in chapter 10 until the Hortensia boss battle and only then, you have the Morion vs Hyacinth cutscene. With that we see more of him, at least gameplay wise, a really strong fighter that we want on our team but that opportunity is quickly robbed by us and now we are forced to fight him. And of course in ch11, have Veyle chase us!
I think about morion more than orther engage characters... Beacuse hes hot but i still think of him more than fram
You got me there, he is certainly built.
To be fair, the Awakening plot and characters are pretty terrible, so I'm not sure what it does better in anyway
From what I understood from Engage's Chapter 11 is that there's more of a sense of hopelessness coming from characters.
Alear has insecurities about replacing Lumera as a divine dragon, and these insecurities are amplified when side characters praise them, for example. To become the perfect divine dragon, Alear must always win and save everyone, like a hero should do, but circumstances don't help them get stronger in dealing with that (at some point they promise they won't let anyone else lose someone, which is a higher expectation to meet, and they already have trouble dealing with the Corrupted, insisting on running away sometimes and in supports admitting their fear of the Corrupted).
Diamant is worried about his father passing one day, and isn't sure if he's ready for it, and Alcryst has similar insecurities about being useless as a royal. Hortensia and Ivy only want to obey their father so that, one day, he might be sane of mind again. In Chapter 11, Alear fails to save parental figures (Morion and Hyacinth), so failing to reach his own expectation, and also fails to protect the rings their mother asked to protect. Diamant and Alcryst lose their father, thus having to inherit the entire kingdom that they might not be ready to rule over, and Ivy and Hortensia lose theirs too to Sombron, so they lose their chance at seeing their father go back to his old ways. Not only is Sombron revived, he also possesses every single ring, also incidentally breaking Marth's promise that they'd be side by side for the rest of the adventure.
The twist with Veyle makes more sense when the DLC chapters are played before. Knowing how Nel and Nil/Rafal were treated as children of Sombron, there's a sense of hopelessness that, maybe, Alear failed to protect Veyle from Sombron's grasp. In the beginning, we only see a Veyle that is innocent: she's a lost kid that might have a problem. So the twist is a cliché, but it's the implication that makes it sad, that an innocent kid was, too, a victim of abuse, and her body autonomy is being taken from her, and Sombron is committing atrocities through her.
Basically, it's sad because, in one instant, everyone is robbed of their innocence and forced to ''grow up'' from their failure, without having any guidance (Marth is possessed, Lumera, Morion, Hyacinth are dead) and feeling injustice by having their goals and dreams shattered and their closed ones gone. It also sets up the stress they go through to make sure that Timerra and Fogado's mother doesn't die like the others did, and explains Hortensia's hopelessness in the Solm chapters.
Super late, but Emmeryn had a lot more of an impact on me than Engage's chapters did, I actually feel a bit similar to this TH-camr. The writing difference is so obvious. and if the writers had what you're saying in mind, then it wasn't obvious or cleverly setup so the player is most likely to feel that way. I just found myself honestly thinking Alear is mega stupid, the twist with Veyle is obvious since the hooded version's model is way too similar to normal Veyle, and that Alear's character arc wasn't clear enough. I still feel like they had next to none, probably because there wasn't enough "anxious Alear" scenes and the plot not really making Alear's anxiety obvious through the choices Alear makes... or the lack of choices they make.
I can't say much about the stories or past games because I haven't played them, but this still fails on a story level solely because of how stupidly they got their rings stolen, but they expect you to take it seriously.
The more I think about it, the more Engage seems like the Family Guy of Fire Emblem, because of how AWFULLY they handle serious moments, yet people will still tell you: "It's just a comedy, dude." Sorry but no, I have standards, and when a piece of media tries doing something they're clearly not good at completely, I will take issue with it. Stay in your lane.
Lmao yes I'm so glad someone finally mentioned that.
The way they got their rings stolen was incredibly dumb.
@@woltsvault6698 I mean I don't want to sound like a contrarian compared to everyone else here and gang up on you, but even with what little bit I know about the series, it's plain to see how they just rehashed Awakening's plot with a little bit of Fates.
But I will always respect those games because they actually tried to be interesting and creative. Engage never even bothered if developer interviews, which were quite frankly insulting to read, almost as bad as Paper Mario and Sonic Forces, are anything to go buy. If they expect my eyes to be sparkly instead of setting on fire for how much of a visual atrocity the character designs are, I'm not going to dignify them.
people will mistake "I cant take the story seriously" as "the story isn't meant to be taken seriously". it clearly is, it just fails. the distinction is drawn by whether or not you can laugh at the struggling
@@Exalosia If you're laughing at a story taking itself seriously, that's not a good thing.
@AkameGaKillfan777 oh, absolutely. no defenses for the story of engage here, it is a garbage fire. it just bothers me when people say it's not taking itself seriously
i played fe engage as my first fe game (heros dont count) and i actually really liked the story, then i played awakening and realized it was bad
There's a lot of good comments here, but I want to bring up something that I haven't seen yet:
There is a big impact when it comes to the Emblem Rings being stolen, not because they're heroes of old and characters fans recognize, but because of the significance of their power. Yes, you are absolutely right that they've not contributed much to the story as characters, but it was told time and time again up to that point that if someone collects every Emblem Ring then that person has immense power.
Alear spent a lot of early chapters talking himself up and thinking he can't fill their mother's place after her death, but they go on the journey anyway knowing that this has to be done; if the Fell Dragon gets the emblems, it's all over. Battle after battle fighting Elusian forces to secure the rings and unlock their power and you feel the confidence of your army growing as you gain them. You feel powerful, even though as a player you were foreshadowed that something really bad was about to happen.
It's not about Morion's death, it's not about Veyle's "betrayal", it's the fact that the Emblem rings were stolen from you so easily and you realize that you've relied so heavily on their power. Those boons and extra stats are suddenly gone and you're being chased by powerful beings and bombarded by all directions, rings getting passed around to whatever fodder of corrupted at any moment. There's a point on that map where you kill one of the corrupted with a ring and Alear says to grab it, but it gets warped away. The map doesn't invoke sadness as much as it does helplessness. Alear lost because of cockiness of how well they were already doing and how many rings they already had, and not expecting Sombron to just pop in at a moment's notice. Now Sombron has all but 2 rings and all you can do is run and hope the remaining ones are still in Solm.
I think someone brought that up but either changed or deleted their comment. The chapter also integrates that feeling into battle as well… the emblems that have been with you so far are now being used against you and you’re forced to escape before you lose anything else, technically getting a taste of your own medicine. It’s one of the small highlights in this story, thematically and gameplay-wise.
While not everyone will agree with me, Engage flopped for me as a fire emblem game due to the poor story and characters that often prioritize a “goofy” tone over trying to make any interesting revelations or trying to keep the players invested in the game. While the gameplay is fantastic and one of the best experiences, the rest of the game falls flat as the one note characters never grow in the game or the lords that are meant to be important to the story just never add anything important to the plot but be Alear’s yes men. In the end, Engage feels like Fates where it has great gameplay but terrible story and characters that can have a negative impact on a player’s experience
Man I love recommendations lol
@@AkameGaKillfan777 you are welcome and I wanted to thank you for helping me with Nubaba and the other arrogant shit talker. So thank you so much and hope you enjoy fire emblem
I do think that chapter 11 of engage is one of the best parts of the story, but that's more because it drops the ball or doesn't even try anywhere else. chapter 11 is one of the times I feel it successfully sets the tone in the gameplay. And it's less about feeling sad, it's more about the loss of the emblem rings making alear feel powerless. I agree that the emblems are written badly, and it doesn't feel that bad to lose them, but that seems like an entirely different can of worms. I just think engage's writers didn't know how to make a good story
I’m not entirely sure engage’s chapter 11 is out to make you feel sad and if it was engages writing is famously bad so what’s new. I like to think of the map as a fun Thracia reference
I liked the “Dont speak Her Name” sequence in Awakening, but I also really liked the same sequence in Three Houses, when Jeralt dies. His relationship is much more personal to the player character being their father, both before and after he dies you learn a lot of what he sacrificed in order to make sure you survived. Unlike Awakening, the other characters don’t immediately start trying to inspire you to fight on, and its not like everything is fine 10 minutes afterwards, but continue to grieve alongside the player character for the next month.
The Jeralt sequence in three houses is also really well done. My only problem with it is while byleth does try to divine pulse to save him, they only try once and then give up which is a bit silly imo. But I agree that the awakening sequence isn’t perfect either tbh.
@@woltsvault6698 I think thats just the issue with having a main character who can manipulate time, is that without setting some kind of restraints it makes everything kind of meaningless.
I feel like if they tried a second or third time at least and failed then it would still have shown that no amount of foresight of what will happen can save Jeralt.
There is 1 thing that I think many ppl don't really pay attention about King Morion. What you said about him and his role in those chapters are not wrong, but you forget 1 thing, Up until that point, King Morion and Brodia as a whole is the invader, not Elusia. If it were not for the religious shenanigan that shift our objective reality of who are good or bad, we wouldn't even think twice to fight against Brodia if it were any of the previous Fire Emblem installment (in short they are the bullies here, not the otherway around). What does this lead to? I suspect that the writing or localization hasn't done the story justice but in my understanding, Morion is meant to show what it made them Brodia in that cutscene. There is no reason for him to be cowardice if he is the one who invade so far and that make sense for him to join the battle. We think about losing only because the way they seed the 2nd thought with Diamant conservative approach, which shows alot about his character. But for King Morion, it is just another day fighting Elusia, so I don't think he doesn't care about his fate but rather it should be expressed that he is going to win as per usual. As a result, we cannot really compare the impact King Morion made with Emmeryn. I highly doubt the intention is for us to feel we have to save King Morion but rather it is simply a plot device because we know about the ritual to ressurect Sombron and stopping it is the main objective.
Perhaps comparing king morion directly to emmeryn was a bit much as they do serve different purposes.
And I agree he is a plot device, but the problem is the game wants him to be a plot device and it also definitely wants us to feel sad about his death. You can tell, especially by Diamant and Alcrysts battle quotes with him, and how they mourn him after chapter 11.
Esssntially I feel like the game wanted to have its cake and eat it too, and that’s where it falls a bit flat for me.
i feel like this chapter should've been much harder (at least on normal/hard mode). being almost forced to sacrifice a few characters would've made it much more intense
Ok is engage’s story messy - yes. But I think there is a superimposing of your interpretation onto the actually intentions of the map. People make the comparison to awakening but at the same time this is an escape map, so like not really?? The point here is to escape due to powerless not take revenge or express anger or sorrow like awakening’s map (or some may argue awakening's is more just about the unfortunate realities of war). This is why I think it’s like the Tracia escape map - you are just trying to get the hell out of these before you get nuked. Now, does the writing after and before map do it any favors? Absolutely not. But at the same time I think the connection between this map and awakening’s, while there, are maybe not as defining as what you seem to be arguing.
tldr: i understand and agree with a lot of issues you express with the writing, but I think on a story-map microlevel, this map is fine and does it's job well - that job is just soiled by the previous and proceeding cutscenes (also yes they should have restricted DLC rings I have no idea why they didn't do this)
Lmao you haven’t played thracia, have you?
?? What makes you think that?