@olaniyi570 Well I am keeping mine for life. I have already had it 20 years. I don't really care for the 'value' as such and do not treat it like a 'Science Museum exhibit', but a fully serviceable machine to be used. The SME arm cost £1000 new nowadays so it must boost the value. I wouldn't change the built in arm unless you have a significantly better arm to replace it with. The turntable is good enough for a SME.
@olaniyi570 Not too hard. The Dragon is made of a composite chipboard deck with steel plate. I had to cut through both of these which I did with a drill and hack saw. Of course you have to separate the top deck with the powersupply which is easy enough. Don't know on comparison as I haven't tried it. But the centre search is unique and makes the sound rock steady like a CD player does. That in itself is great. Rumble is very low - can't hear it.
I don't advise you to replace the tonearm on your Dragon CT. It has a superb tonearm (manufactured by Jelco) that can compete with the best of them. A Dragon CT also happens to be a collectors item, so any irreversible modifications will diminish its collectors value. You can do a lot of other tweaks, however, to improve the sound. Please join our Yahoo NakTurntables group.
A couple of questions. How difficult was it to put the SME on this deck? And how does the dragon compare to the more "modern" decks like rega p-5 for example?
Hey. I ask for help. I want to buy the same turntable.. I want you to talk about sound quality, especially about changes in sound after replacing the tonearm. I will be grateful for the answer!
Holes don't get "punched" in the wrong position. The biscuit forms around one pin, creating the hole, then it goes into the press, and gets dropped onto a different spindle inside the press. There's no punching involved in the process. If the biscuit doesn't lay flat against the stamper while resting on that pin, it can cause more of the record to be on one side than the other, giving you the illusion that the hole is off, when it's actually that the hole that is true, but the record itself that is off. If the edger blades that trim off the excess flashing have too much force, it can cause centering issues since a hot record is hitting against the spindle in the press too hard, or if it's out of alignment...but if I hear one more person say a record was punched incorrectly, I am going to scream. Cool table though!
Well that is pretty INCREDIBLE! i have never seen one of those before but judging by the technology involved and the brand name it must have cost an absolute fortune when new and probably not much less second hand either
Wow, what an amazing concept for an absolute audiophile-grade turntable. The Dragon Nak's truly were (and still are) the pinnacle of perfection!:) Thanks so much for sharing this beautiful unit, congrats.
the turntable stays put. The platter itself is glass with a rubber mat. This can move. So the mechanism nudges the platter only to make the table slightly eccentric - to cancel out the eccentricity of the record itself. So the cartridge alignment stays perfect and does not change. With an eccentric record the alignment is continually changing.
Even if it was a marketing gimmick, Nakamichi never compromised on engineering. They may have over engineered the table, but what a great illustration of an in your face kind of statement to make. Feats like this amazes me at how the Japanese audio industry allowed a computer company to tell everyone what music should sound like, (MP3's). I would have done side by side comparisons through aggressive marketing to convince the audio consumers that digital was not the way to listen to music.
i recently bought a mint ct turntable in holland where i live. only the glass platter is a bit damaged; while it is still round, it has some bright spots in it. i think your platter also has one mark, am i correct? greetings from holland, fred.
Hi ZX - the centre spindle has a button on it to pre-centre the turntable. I exaggerated the offset so that you could see it on the video. Normally its not that bad. I only have one record that is so bad even the nakamichi cannot centre it, I have to make the first correction myself, then the CT will finish it off and centre it. 99% of all my records are not centre punched correctly. Pitch stability on centred records is wonderful - like CD.
Lucky you Jimmy! Hang on to it, although you might want to modify it and fit a decent arm, like I did. This isn't quite as easy as it sounds because you have to disable the auto lift mechanism. However if you can find a decent SME arm it has one anyway. All you need is the auto centre system anyway. By the way the plinth is made of Wood AND steel sheet so you have to cut through that. I managed it so I am sure you can. Good luck!
Thanks for the response. I wonder if these modifation will hurt the value of the table in the long run. Of course if you keep it for life in wont matter. The SME look a lot better than the stock arm on this table btw.
@xconnectiv No idea what is best - what sounds great to you is my first opinion. However its worth looking up what was recommended to go on the dragon arm in the first place. Cartridges have different compliance factors and resonance. Maybe a lighter weight high compliance cartridge is better. Stiffer catridges can put too much energy into the arm.
Thank you for this clip.. I knew about Dragon TT, but never understood how the centering operates, read about it many times in older Stereophile, Absolute Sounds. Harry Pearson was a big fan, right? Seriously rare beast, you are a lucky man!
Excellent demo & outstanding deck, nice work. Been looking for one of these for a couple of years now but I must be looking in all the wrong places ;-(
Nice turntable, Nakamichi was always meaning of technological advance. I have a pioneer Elite PL-90 reference and the tonearm is alumina ceramic, a feature I've only seen in a Graham Tonearm. Regards!
very good made video, thank you, that way I could andestand how the DRAGON works. He does look to the hole, not to the music on the record, to search and set the center.
Nice video demonstrating this feature. I remember being fascinated by seeing one working back when they were new. One minor correction: While it does do a lot to eliminate wow, any flutter would not be caused by an off center record. People tend to conflate the words 'wow and flutter', when they are actually two different things. To ZXNakamichi. The CT does not look at the hole, it reads the locked final lead out groove of the record for eccentricity.
Thanks for the video, I had a Nak Dragon CT and it was easily the most fun audio toy I've ever owned. Congrats on yours, enjoy it. I miss mine, but may some day DIY an autocentering table.
Thanks for your message - however I have to differ on quality grounds regarding the Jelco. This arm is the weak spot of this turntable. I take your point about the value being compromised but I don't believe in 'collector's value' - its a great turntable that should be used, and I also believe that making something good, better is worth doing. I replaced the Jelco with a SME series 309 with its one piece arm. I hope to change it for a Series 4 or 5 oneday. These arms outclass a Jelco anyday.
Hi there - just had a holiday in Leiden and Amsterdam as it happens! Yes the edge of my glass platter has a small chip. Can't recall how it happened. Doesn't affect the playing though. Regards Jake
Dear Sir, thank you for the eagle eyes. Don't worry, I have been playing vinyl, or should I say Records, for at least 40 years, and I have never damaged a stylus yet. However in my impending dementia, I will endeavour to keep my sleeve rolled up in future. Its the children I worry about.
far too rich for my blood (saw a TX1000 in the flesh in Tokyo on sale for the modest price of 13k), but Nakamichi without a doubt made two of the coolest tables ever
does anyone know the name of the song at the start? the one that starts at 0:09 seconds i dont think its Three Movements, Movement I: quarter note=176 thanks
I'm actually coming into possession of a Dragon CT very soon, very nice vid, good sir! I actually had no idea what the Dragon CT actually was until today, and found this vid amidst my research.
2 things amazed me about this video: the wonderful nakamichi computing turntable, and that you played one of my all-time favorite pieces of music on it - Steve Reich's "Three Movements, Movement I: quarter note=176".
NAKAMICHI , my all time favourite manufacturer of all things audio , except for my Ruark Equinox loudspeakers ....Thanks for bringing back fond memories.
The ultimate turntable. However, the pressing plants should be ashamed! We pay a lot for our records so we very well can demand a perfect product. As the pressing equipment wears the chances of getting a sub standard product increases dramatically. True, defects like this occured also back in the old days but it isn't really necessary at all. A good check after the first record from that particular run drops from the press is all is needed. And a working quality check before the products leave the plant. Would that be too much asking for huh?!
Techincally, it's not correcting flutter. It's correcting the wow. Wow is defined as a slow change in speed, like an eccentric record, while flutter would be a fast change in speed.
True; lateral wow would occur once every 1.8 sec. for a 33.33rpm disc. I've always (ever since this 'table debuted) wanted to know how the eccentricity correction works--something about a sub-platter, if memory serves.
Exactly -- the platter is sitting on a sub-platter that leaves it room to move about 1/4" or so... The little 'finger' pokes the side of the platter to adjust, sliding the platter across the top of the sub-platter.
Hello there. The original arm had a sensor built in so that the centering system would only operate if the arm was returned to it's catcher. How did you manage to install an aftermarket arm and still have the CT system work? Also, what are the wires and the LED light near the arm-base? Thanks very much.
The CT uses a LED and photo diode under the original Jelco arm system. The Jelco had a plate that crossed the beam when the arm moved to its play position activating the turntable. So I brought out the LED and photo cell and mounted it to the SME arm restraint. I taped a small piece of aluminium foil on the underside of the SME arm so that the light would bounce back into the cell. All the time the cell sees light from the LED it won't operate. Once the arm moves away, the cell only sees darkness and the turntable activates. Its as simple as that! However I did replace the LED with a super bright one, and that was more effective. That is why you see a red led in the video.
WTF, self correcting platter, is it possible ?
Yes it is!
"Eliminates wow and flutter." Well, it generates a "Wow" from me, I've never seen a turntable with that feature before.
If you and your friends were stoned and you wanted to play a record, everyone would be asleep by the time the music started!
you don't listen to a record when you have different things to do.
Fortunately we take music seriously and are not stoned.
no wonder, they by Nakamichi now are out of business, - and selling just headsets only...
That's nothing. I'm permanently self-centred.
@olaniyi570 Well I am keeping mine for life. I have already had it 20 years. I don't really care for the 'value' as such and do not treat it like a 'Science Museum exhibit', but a fully serviceable machine to be used. The SME arm cost £1000 new nowadays so it must boost the value. I wouldn't change the built in arm unless you have a significantly better arm to replace it with. The turntable is good enough for a SME.
@olaniyi570 Not too hard. The Dragon is made of a composite chipboard deck with steel plate. I had to cut through both of these which I did with a drill and hack saw. Of course you have to separate the top deck with the powersupply which is easy enough. Don't know on comparison as I haven't tried it. But the centre search is unique and makes the sound rock steady like a CD player does. That in itself is great. Rumble is very low - can't hear it.
I don't advise you to replace the tonearm on your Dragon CT. It has a superb tonearm (manufactured by Jelco) that can compete with the best of them. A Dragon CT also happens to be a collectors item, so any irreversible modifications will diminish its collectors value. You can do a lot of other tweaks, however, to improve the sound. Please join our Yahoo NakTurntables group.
A couple of questions. How difficult was it to put the SME on this deck? And how does the dragon compare to the more "modern" decks like rega p-5 for example?
@Nizzle2daBizzle Look for NakTurntables in Yahoo Groups, or email me directly, arlekino1 at yahoo. They will not let me post a link here.
i got a record that has a radie on it i looked inside the belt is just fine but it just wont turn what should i do?
Hey.
I ask for help.
I want to buy the same turntable..
I want you to talk about sound quality, especially about changes in sound after replacing the tonearm. I will be grateful for the answer!
Holes don't get "punched" in the wrong position. The biscuit forms around one pin, creating the hole, then it goes into the press, and gets dropped onto a different spindle inside the press. There's no punching involved in the process. If the biscuit doesn't lay flat against the stamper while resting on that pin, it can cause more of the record to be on one side than the other, giving you the illusion that the hole is off, when it's actually that the hole that is true, but the record itself that is off. If the edger blades that trim off the excess flashing have too much force, it can cause centering issues since a hot record is hitting against the spindle in the press too hard, or if it's out of alignment...but if I hear one more person say a record was punched incorrectly, I am going to scream. Cool table though!
Yes I have learned this also. However the end result is an off centre record.
Holes DO get punched in the wrong position on the metal parts sometimes, and all the records pressed from those parts will have an off-center hole.
Robert Wright yes that is correct.
Thanks professor, feel free to scream since nobody cares.
Hi, Do you know what is the best Cartridge for this TT ? I still have the TX-100 tone arm. Thanks
Hi, Do you know what is the best Cartridge for this TT ? I still have the TX-100 tone arm. Thanks
NICE! Never seen a mechanism like this. Very nice in deed. 33 and 45 only?
Excellent machine. Btw--off center records are due to stamper misalignment. Nothing to do with the spindle hole punching.
Well that is pretty INCREDIBLE! i have never seen one of those before but judging by the technology involved and the brand name it must have cost an absolute fortune when new and probably not much less second hand either
Wow, what an amazing concept for an absolute audiophile-grade turntable. The Dragon Nak's truly were (and still are) the pinnacle of perfection!:) Thanks so much for sharing this beautiful unit, congrats.
Nice music, by the way. What is it?
Yes - no 78 unfortunately.
the turntable stays put. The platter itself is glass with a rubber mat. This can move. So the mechanism nudges the platter only to make the table slightly eccentric - to cancel out the eccentricity of the record itself. So the cartridge alignment stays perfect and does not change. With an eccentric record the alignment is continually changing.
Interesting use of probing in consumer electronics!
Even if it was a marketing gimmick, Nakamichi never compromised on engineering. They may have over engineered the table, but what a great illustration of an in your face kind of statement to make. Feats like this amazes me at how the Japanese audio industry allowed a computer company to tell everyone what music should sound like, (MP3's). I would have done side by side comparisons through aggressive marketing to convince the audio consumers that digital was not the way to listen to music.
i recently bought a mint ct turntable in holland where i live.
only the glass platter is a bit damaged; while it is still round, it has some bright spots in it.
i think your platter also has one mark, am i correct?
greetings from holland,
fred.
@Nizzle2daBizzle
@Arlekino11
recently i purchased in holland a ct turntable and i'd like to join your nak turntables group; how should i do that?
Who Cares
Hi ZX - the centre spindle has a button on it to pre-centre the turntable. I exaggerated the offset so that you could see it on the video. Normally its not that bad. I only have one record that is so bad even the nakamichi cannot centre it, I have to make the first correction myself, then the CT will finish it off and centre it. 99% of all my records are not centre punched correctly. Pitch stability on centred records is wonderful - like CD.
Lucky you Jimmy! Hang on to it, although you might want to modify it and fit a decent arm, like I did. This isn't quite as easy as it sounds because you have to disable the auto lift mechanism. However if you can find a decent SME arm it has one anyway. All you need is the auto centre system anyway. By the way the plinth is made of Wood AND steel sheet so you have to cut through that. I managed it so I am sure you can. Good luck!
Thanks for the response. I wonder if these modifation will hurt the value of the table in the long run. Of course if you keep it for life in wont matter. The SME look a lot better than the stock arm on this table btw.
@xconnectiv No idea what is best - what sounds great to you is my first opinion. However its worth looking up what was recommended to go on the dragon arm in the first place. Cartridges have different compliance factors and resonance. Maybe a lighter weight high compliance cartridge is better. Stiffer catridges can put too much energy into the arm.
Thank you for this clip..
I knew about Dragon TT, but never understood how the centering operates, read about it many times in older Stereophile, Absolute Sounds. Harry Pearson was a big fan, right? Seriously rare beast, you are a lucky man!
Excellent demo & outstanding deck, nice work.
Been looking for one of these for a couple of years now but I must be looking in all the wrong places ;-(
Nice turntable, Nakamichi was always meaning of technological advance. I have a pioneer Elite PL-90 reference and the tonearm is alumina ceramic, a feature I've only seen in a Graham Tonearm. Regards!
very good made video, thank you, that way I could andestand how the DRAGON works.
He does look to the hole, not to the music on the record, to search and set the center.
Nice video demonstrating this feature. I remember being fascinated by seeing one working back when they were new.
One minor correction: While it does do a lot to eliminate wow, any flutter would not be caused by an off center record. People tend to conflate the words 'wow and flutter', when they are actually two different things.
To ZXNakamichi. The CT does not look at the hole, it reads the locked final lead out groove of the record for eccentricity.
Thanks for the video, I had a Nak Dragon CT and it was easily the most fun audio toy I've ever owned. Congrats on yours, enjoy it. I miss mine, but may some day DIY an autocentering table.
Thanks for your message - however I have to differ on quality grounds regarding the Jelco. This arm is the weak spot of this turntable. I take your point about the value being compromised but I don't believe in 'collector's value' - its a great turntable that should be used, and I also believe that making something good, better is worth doing. I replaced the Jelco with a SME series 309 with its one piece arm. I hope to change it for a Series 4 or 5 oneday. These arms outclass a Jelco anyday.
Hi there - just had a holiday in Leiden and Amsterdam as it happens! Yes the edge of my glass platter has a small chip. Can't recall how it happened. Doesn't affect the playing though. Regards Jake
Dear Sir, thank you for the eagle eyes. Don't worry, I have been playing vinyl, or should I say Records, for at least 40 years, and I have never damaged a stylus yet. However in my impending dementia, I will endeavour to keep my sleeve rolled up in future. Its the children I worry about.
far too rich for my blood (saw a TX1000 in the flesh in Tokyo on sale for the modest price of 13k), but Nakamichi without a doubt made two of the coolest tables ever
I wish Nakamichi hadn't turned to "lifestyle" products. They were fantastic. Unaffordable, but fantastic.
does anyone know the name of the song at the start? the one that starts at 0:09 seconds i dont think its Three Movements, Movement I: quarter note=176 thanks
Wow just wow, my father has a luxman turntable with Nakamichi tape deck B&W DM14 and Parasound amps and pre-amps
I'm actually coming into possession of a Dragon CT very soon, very nice vid, good sir! I actually had no idea what the Dragon CT actually was until today, and found this vid amidst my research.
2 things amazed me about this video: the wonderful nakamichi computing turntable, and that you played one of my all-time favorite pieces of music on it - Steve Reich's "Three Movements, Movement I: quarter note=176".
NAKAMICHI , my all time favourite manufacturer of all things audio , except for my Ruark Equinox loudspeakers ....Thanks for bringing back fond memories.
The ultimate turntable. However, the pressing plants should be ashamed! We pay a lot for our records so we very well can demand a perfect product. As the pressing equipment wears the chances of getting a sub standard product increases dramatically. True, defects like this occured also back in the old days but it isn't really necessary at all. A good check after the first record from that particular run drops from the press is all is needed. And a working quality check before the products leave the plant. Would that be too much asking for huh?!
I remember bringing my Technics SLXP7 to HSchool and wowing my friends with "And We Danced" by The Hooters. 89db s/n ratio, Iykwim:-)
Hi Jake, I need to get a needle(stylus) for the arm which measures the record. Any idea where I can get it from.(In UK)
Kind Regards,
Didn't know Nakamichi made such a great turntable, they are simply geniuses
V. cool to see the auto centering feature in action.
Thanks for posting this. Cool tt!
Techincally, it's not correcting flutter. It's correcting the wow. Wow is defined as a slow change in speed, like an eccentric record, while flutter would be a fast change in speed.
True; lateral wow would occur once every 1.8 sec. for a 33.33rpm disc. I've always (ever since this 'table debuted) wanted to know how the eccentricity correction works--something about a sub-platter, if memory serves.
Yes I got corrected on this a while back.
Exactly -- the platter is sitting on a sub-platter that leaves it room to move about 1/4" or so... The little 'finger' pokes the side of the platter to adjust, sliding the platter across the top of the sub-platter.
You are quite right - wow is different. I should correct that. Thanks!
Well how about that then! Glad you like the video. Cool deck and good music.
I agree - the stock arm is nothing to write home about. It deserves a decent arm.
This is way cool. I cannot stand the wow and flutter from misaligned records.
That's one thing my Sota Star Sapphire with vacuum hold down cannot do!
i remember this being tested in the summer of 84,it was very expensive.
Hi - Music is called 'The Desert Music' by Steve Reich.
I certainly do enjoy it! Its a great sounding deck.
Fantastic. Would love to get one of these.
Awesome. One of the best turntables ever made!
very good presentation indeed
@analoguenutter see answer above!
i always wanted one of these
Hello there. The original arm had a sensor built in so that the centering system would only operate if the arm was returned to it's catcher. How did you manage to install an aftermarket arm and still have the CT system work? Also, what are the wires and the LED light near the arm-base? Thanks very much.
The CT uses a LED and photo diode under the original Jelco arm system. The Jelco had a plate that crossed the beam when the arm moved to its play position activating the turntable. So I brought out the LED and photo cell and mounted it to the SME arm restraint. I taped a small piece of aluminium foil on the underside of the SME arm so that the light would bounce back into the cell. All the time the cell sees light from the LED it won't operate. Once the arm moves away, the cell only sees darkness and the turntable activates. Its as simple as that! However I did replace the LED with a super bright one, and that was more effective. That is why you see a red led in the video.
I enlarge the spindle holes on off-center records and re-position them. Works the same.
But we can't get it as perfect as the computer does.
Quite nice.
Great thing, man! Can you tell me the title of the song at the end? Please!
+Emil Gruca That is Steve Reich - The Desert Music. and yes, it is AMAZING!
As is that turntable.
For sale?
This record player has 4 speeds (78, 45, 33 and 16 rpm), or only 33 and 45 rpm?
45 and 33rpm and a small amount of variable speed.
Has internal phono preamplifier, internal digitiser, usb and bluetooth?
No