Are Those Bullet Holes in The Battleship?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2022
- In this episode we're on board Missouri talking about when she was hit by a CIWS.
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Properly disposed of; another words, the Navy just tossed it overboard
Metal is valuable in wartime, I'm sure they would prefer to reclaim it, when it is practical to do so.
@@Freedom4Ever420 it is radioactive
@@kevinbarry71 marginally. Thats what Depleted means
Deep Six was my first thought lol😂
@@Freedom4Ever420 You can still get heavy metal poisoning from it
I'm not surprised the damage from the CIWS round wasn't repaired, it really wouldn't have been considered anything more than a way for the ship to have some "character" and something to point out to visitors. By this point everyone in the Navy knew that Wisconsin and Missouri were going to be decommissioned after returning home, so repairs to this "hit" were probably assigned a very low priority with more important problems getting the attention.
My own ship was less than 20 miles from Missouri when the "Silkworm Missile" incident happened. Missouri's "best buddy" HMS Gloucester shot the thing down, but right after we received a CBR (Chemical Biological Radiological) weapon alert that had most of our Amphibious Group buttoned up under CIRCLE WILLIAM conditions (gas masks and such) for well over an hour. I think it was finally determined that the "Agent" detected was residue from the missile explosion (warheads, fuel (liquid AND solid) from both missiles.)
Damage , early 1991. officially decommisioned 31 March 1992 ... it would have been labelled as a "do not service" asset.. if it didnt have to be repaired to operate it, why repair it ? why spend anything on repairing a ship due to be decommisioned ??? Maybe there was a temporary repairs for its remaining service , but removed for the museum ship status
Really cool to see multiple curators together talking, would be cool to see more of that too
What is this? A crossover episode?
Now we need to see a Curate-off. (Preferably held in a temporary octagon hastily thrown together on the rear deck)
With our powers combined!
I served with another Sailor who was on the Missouri at the time of the Silkworm incident. According to his telling of the story, they had received notice to brace for impact of the missile while it was inbound.
th-cam.com/video/yonyV6_6ur4/w-d-xo.html here is the video of that incident
A-YIKES I SAY!
@@macbrooks3337 PIN THIS COMMENT!!!!!
Wow thanks
@@macbrooks3337 @Mac Brooks I'm so used to spam that I was 99% sure your link was BS lmao. The comments below it made me wonder though
Not battle damage. But second deck starboard side of turret 3 barbett is cracked on the Missouri. Also on one of turret 3 projectile decks there is a WW2 brass lighter that fell between the rotating projectile deck and stantionary deck. Crew member during WW2 dropped it and that's where it went, still there to this day.
Good to see Meghan again, this time on Missouri. She certainly knows that ships history. I am impressed with the penetrative capacity of the 20mm CIWS system. Only Missouri's armor finally stopped it. Glad to see Ryan taking advantage of his time in Hawaii to visit New Jersey's sister. Hope he did the same in California with sister Iowa.
OUCH!
DU penetrators ain't no joke.
@@TheRyujinLP It's also a function of the "all or nothing" armor scheme where only the key engineering areas, magazine, and main guns were fully armored. Exterior areas were not armored more than minimal if at all.
That guy who survived a 20mm gut shot should have bought a lottery ticket after that. Holy hell.
Surviving a stomach shot from a 20mm cannon is as metal as it gets.
Certainly takes "rearranging your guts" to a hole new level
@@goodguymcgee4142 I don't think girls want that kind of rearrangement...
@@TheBananamonger good thing they couldn't serve on ships yet!
I think the series of holes is a wonderful artifact of an historical event.
Go to the port side of Turret 3, check the side near the face of the turret. There is a huge gouge where another CIWS round deflected off the side of the turret in the same incident that the round went over the 25mm Bushmaster gun mount (the one shown here). I was inside Turret 3 during General Quarters when the incident happened. I exited the turret through the lower hatch from the Gun Captain's station and heard the 1MC message, "Secure from Flooding" and I was like....what? That is when we all learned about what happened. CRAZY to think that we were shot by our own people.
I know it has been said before. I think it is cool that you, Ryan, share your skills and popularity with other museum ships. I am sure until you arrived, they had no clue how many Curators distant those rounds had traveled through the ship. Now they can give proper tours.😀
Might be interesting to run a Geiger counter around the holes to see if there are still traces of the DU round in there. Uranium is an Alpha particle emitter and low one at that, so there is zero danger to anyone (unless someone licks it).
While I was in the Marines, I've fired a 20mm with DU rounds a couple of times and saw the damage they cause to tank armor. It is a devastating round. I'm actually surprised how little damage there was.
I suspect its something to do with soft vs hard targets? This CIWS round only hit some soft ship-bits and gradually lost energy, while a tank is an armored box where the rounds' energy will instantly be spent. DU also probably produces a slightly fiery cloud in the latter scenario (including that toxic dust).
Make no mistake, the Uranium isotopes in question are not safe to be around. They do emit ionizing radiation (gamma and beta) even when sub-critical, due to decay products being present. DU ammo is safe to handle because the DU penetrator is encased. The problem here with DU ammunition is the particles that can be breathed in - it is fairly certain that crew in those areas was exposed to those particles right after the incident happened.
I'm sure they had policies in place to keep the Marines from licking those particular bulkheads 😋
@@Ganiscol DU is radioactive, but it's sufficiently low radioactivity that it is actually used as radiation shielding in some applications. Lumps of DU aren't a particularly large problem; as you say, the dust is the problem, particularly when it's inhaled -- it's a heavy metal toxin as well as the radiation issues.
@@Ganiscol Any radiation after just a cleaning to get any dust out would be so close to background it would be completely harmless. Really DU is nasty mostly due to being a heavy metal, but then again so is lead...
Even in combat zones where DU was used extensively background radiation is barely higher, certainly not enough so to be dangerous in any way.
That's so cool you visit the other ships and talk with their folks as well. Love it!
Every Soldier knows there is no such thing as "friendly fire." That is an oxymoron. All fire coming your way is hostile to your health!
friendly fire is when they shoot you with a smile
NATO calls it 'Blue on Blue'
This is a very dim way of putting it, you generally don't want to return friendly fire, you do want to return hostile fire.
To say it's all the same implies you'd react the same for either, which you shouldn't.
@@greyfells2829 that's not what they're saying at all
"Friendly fire" is not an oxymoron. It is fire from a person who is friendly, not fire that is friendly.
I can only imagine what must've been the battle damage on a pre-dreadnought battleship after combat, all those different caliber guns going through all sorts of holes everywhere, this was an era where ships can only be described as "ironclads with ten times more cannons", they would shoot as much lead at each other as they could, I would imagine the inside of the ship was riddled with holes everywhere.
Honestly, even on WW2 ships its gotta be a pain. After all you dont just got a bunch of main guns, but also secondaries. Youll get splinters and damage everywhere, and if eg a main gun round hits the superstructure, itll still tear giant holes.
Always found it very hard to imagine how you even begin clean up that kind of battle damage.
Exactly what I was thinking too. A strafe run of a plane can sink a normal ship. They must have had an insane repair drill and crew.
Friendly fire probably happens more often than we want to think. When I was on the USS Mahan in Vietnam on Yankee Station (Tonkin Gulf), we were almost bombed by an F-4 dropping unexpended ordinance before it landed on a carrier. I could see the 500 lb. bombs walking towards our ship just before we went to GQ. The closest bomb was probably less than a thousand feet away, but that was close enough to shake everyone up pretty badly.
You guys could’ve included Shane from the Buffalo naval park too. If I’m not mistaken USS Little Rock also fired a shot that hit USS Missouri.
Thank you for posting
Fascinating as always
Thanks Ryan
I find these videos to be very conversational and not at all forced or rehearsed. Makes 'em easy to watch.
I just stumbled across an interview with a fellow named Charles Owen who was on the New Jersey since before she was commissioned until after VJ Day. I wonder if you've ever met or spoken with him.
I was onboard the Jarrett during that incident. We were at GQ for hours and I didn't know about the CIWS incident until much later. They did announce "incoming missile all hands brace for shock" as we didn't know which ship it was headed for when it launched. We were close to the Missouri and I know that missile shrapnel flew over our flight deck and hit the water after it was knocked down by the HMS Gloucester's missile.
We had also passed through the same area as the USS Tripoli when she struck that mine. Talk about close calls.
I toured the Missouri a few years ago there's a small dent just below the main deck roughly under where the cluster of old WW11 20mm AA guns were starboard side.
from a Japanese kamikaze zero hit when the ship was operating off Okinawa WW11 .
Definitely should have a placard explaining the hole and ladder (if there's already not one there).
The holes are part of the ships lore. I'm glad they were not patched up. Great video
The depleted uranium was properly disposed of, oops it accidentally fell over the side. 😄 🙄 😋
Yeah without a doubt, but there's no problem with that anyway... Depleated uranium is less radioactive than naturally occurring Uranium, and how many thousands of tons of that is there beneath the sea to begin with?
Even in WWII you could not get a Purple Heart because of 'friendly fire'.
I'm kinda surprised they didn't weld expedient patches over the holes, but they probably probably patched them in some other temporary manner while deployed I bet, especially the water pipe.
another great video
Although this is a great little piece of history it could definitely have become a tragic event with loss of life. I would like to know how the navy has changed operating procedures to avoid another incident like this.
Such holes provide an excellent object lesson in the dangers of friendly fire.
Hey! Commenting on one of your most recent videos because I was watching another documentary and had a thought… I can’t afford to make a donation right now, but I have visited the ship and bought a shirt that I wear regularly with pride, and I’ve shared your vids before… anyhow… the ww2 documentary that I watched mentioned the IJN Ise, which was the hybrid Japanese battleship/aircraft carrier, and I know that the Iowa class ships had similar plans at some point so I thought it’d be cool for you to do a comparison video on that concept… I know you can’t bump me to the top of your list because I’m not making a donation but I think it would be super interesting! Love your content as always!!!
i went on the missouri in 2010 in hawaii. nice ship.
Ryan, there is a video making the rounds of the internet of Submarine Bowfin getting underway for a move to a Honolulu shipyard, and while the video shows at least ONE harbor tug standing by, the submarine APPEARS to be moving under her own power. Are the rules for smaller diesel powered ships different from those for larger, steam powered ships?
I'm certainly not an expert but I would tend to think so regarding different rules. The New Jersey's steam propulsion is very complex & potentially deadly where the diesel electric system of a submarine isn't much different than any other vintage internal combustion engine.
I do know that some of the other subs have the main engines running, USS Silversides or USS Cod for example have the main engines running, so if she still has her props it could be possible to move under its own power I think
The diesels don’t have to run on a sub to move it. If they have power from a tug to supply the dc power it can move on its own. Many of the sub museum pieces have a prop but not an original. Many times the original is outside of the ship, much bigger, and the one on the ship is marginally functional on purpose.
Her dive planes and ballast tanks would also be inoperable.
@@jacilynns6330 I tried looking it up and it seems that USS Bowfin has her props removed
The history of the props used on subs over the years have been an item considered as classified and most decommissioned subs more than likely the first items removed are the props. It would be cost prohibitive to have an unclassified prop on hand to allow the sub to operate under its own power after decommissioning.
The exterior holes should be repaired properly. The one in pipe should have been repaired long ago. Rest of bulkhead holes can stay. Personally I would cut out piece, weld in a patch and display piece with hole right over the patch.
It's superficial. And the ship's not operational.
Y'all just want to make me visit the USS Missouri even more. I shall be there in a couple weeks. But I do have a question. Is there any way to visit the memorial of the USS utah?
Umm wrong title guys? as you used that for Monday's vid or Tuesday's video for me given they air at midnight
A .45 was fired in a HQ building on Okinawa years ago. No attempt to patch the holes was made. The holes, 2 walls and into the ceiling, were covered with pictures.
Ahh this is about the time after the HMS Gloucester had saved Missouri from an Silkworm SSM with her Sea Dart Surface to Air Missiles and the USS Jarrett hit her with 20mm CIWS fire
Does Missouri have anything on the time the British Royal Navy had saved her from the Silkworm SSM fired at her back in the Gulf War?
OOPS!
I'm certain the Missouri Museum has excellent documentation of these incidents. I remember being on watch aboard the NASSAU not far away when we got warning of "MISSILES IN THE AIR" and a moment later word from either Missouri or another ship of the Gloucester "splashing" the Silkworm, and then a Chemical Weapon Alert sending everyone within 20 or so miles of the battleship to CIRCLE WILLIAM for CBR DEFENSE. The ships buttoned and air handling systems shut down and all hands "Sucking Rubber" in gas masks for better than an hour.
Sometime during Desert Storm, we found bullet holes in our superstructure.
No idea when or where we got them.
USS Hawes (FFG-53)
On the Iowa we have a big dent in the side of Turret two from a shore battery strike. I will also proudly say that Iowa is the ONLY Iowa class battleship to sink an enemy ship the IJN Katori.
Wasn’t there another ship who had one of her fire control turrets hit by friendly fire which killed some crew during WW2?
CIWS does not use IFF. CIWS is designed to automatically lock on to flying objects that meet certain engagement criteria, and a chaff cloud can look like an incoming missile to the CIWS computer. If CIWS is in AAW Auto and the operator does not intervene it will shoot at anything meeting the engagement criteria. If it is in AAW manual it requires an operator to push the fire button.
In Vietnam and I suspect WW2, they did not consider the source of the round or shrapnel for award of a purple heart... only that you were wounded during action with the enemy...This in connection with the CIWS shoots at chaff incident.
Do you think Missouri or battleship Cove would do a TH-cam series like you do
It's a good reminder of the consequences of friendly fire.. a crew could learn from that.
i heard about the chaff cloud incident from the channel The Operations Room lol
Where's the part of the computers?
I imagine "properly disposed of" means tossed overboard...😂
I've heard of 'Blue on blue', (allied forces) and 'red on red' (soviet equivalent). Would this be known as 'Grey on grey' ?
A small point -
CWIS does *not* check for an IFF transponder.
I'd love to know if they did any upgrades to the CIWS after the gulf war incident to help them tell the difference between missiles and chaff clouds
On a different topic, it's too bad that when Drachinifel did his recent tour of the Colonies, that the two of you didn't get together and do a combined show! That would've been cool.
This was the Silkworm missile shot down incident, when HMS Gloucester's Sea Dart destroyed the incoming Iraqi missile fired at the USS Missouri in the to date only time an anti-ship missile has been intercepted by another missile in combat.
i think it is good that the damage of the 20mm was not patched so it can be seen and the story wont be forgotten. also its a nice hole to teach that a 20mm is not a joke and you better be carefull
We have a family friend who was RH gun captain USMC, mount 52 I believe.
nice testimony🤣
The guy survived being hit by a 20mm? Wow!
In the gut no less....
@Battleship New Jersey have you went to see Wisconsin in Norfolk...????
I am surprised they didn't repair the hole in the pipe tbh. The other bulkheads, not so much.
Wouldn't surprise me if any repair attempts did more harm to the surrounding steel.
Better to leave a 20mm hole in an otherwise perfect piece of armor, than to weaken a square meter of the plating trying to patch a small hole.
"disposed of properly" as in dumped over the side?
More like slipped into the back pocket of the ships captain
Wow, didn't know that she got accidentally strafed by WisKy's AAA!
YE-OOW!
They're breathing holes for the curator
As to patching the holes: Why? The ship is no longer a part of the Navy, so it won't sail again, plus, a good story demands proof of that story. Patching the holes just covers up the point of the story. To me, it is better to keep the holes and tell the story. By the way, why didn't they award the shrapnel-receiving sailor a Purple Heart? Just because it wasn't ENEMY fire? A wound received in action is a wound of honor. Even if it was a "Friendly Fire" incident. Or doesn't the Navy believe in that sort of thing?
There are several old buildings and statues in Finland having their battle damages left unrepaired since the Winter War. Those damages are left there to tell a story, and they are now considered to be a part of the building's history. Wounds due to a friendly fire tell their own story, and being a museum ship, the repairs would reduce the ship's value as a museum and memorial for the whole career of the ship, IMHO.
Purple hearts may be awarded for friendly fire if there is significant reason to believe an enemy action caused it
I,E an incoming missile strike
Of course, the most famous (near) friendly fire incident involving an Iowa Class is when the USS William D Porter (DD-579) was performing a mock torpedo attack on the USS Iowa as a demonstration for President Franklin D Roosevelt and accidentally launched a LIVE torpedo at the Iowa. My understanding is that the Porter was kept at gunpoint by the rest of the taskforce for the duration of the trip to Cairo while they awaited the inquiry.
In a true mad lad act, FDR actually asked to be moved to the side the Torpedo was on to watch the whole incident... and the William D Porter was routinely greeted by other ships with the hail "Don't shoot! We're Republicans!"
The William D Porter is probably the unluckiest ship to ever be in the US Navy... having successfully depth charged itself and damaging a sister ship... her fate would also be rather unique and... well... unlucky... after dodging a direct hit from a kamikaze, the explosive laden plane detonated under the keel of the William D Porter and sank her. No loss of life in the incident, just the loss of the most unlucky ship in the US Navy!
"properly disposed" was probably tossed overboard :D
"are those bullet holes" "today we'll be discussing friendly fire"
well that's answers that.
Freindly fire was common when gun crews were focused on low flying aircraft.
I hope the sailor was eventually awarded the purple heart medal. 💜.
i love how awkward the other 2 look, while hes doing his usual outtro xD
They're sad that they don't receive operating support from the New Jersey Department of State.
you say sea wizz but the close in wepons systome was the phalanx model
👍👍👍
Adds character.....
I was hoping that it was a result of the "Under Siege" incident...😂😂😂
I actually am surprised about the fact that they did not completely repair her.
Given how M177 shells work what might be the range if 16 inch shells were rocket assiist like M177
I won't quote numbers because I don't remember them exactly, but I know it's been seriously studied and the range was pretty impressive.
I catch these videos from time to time, very interesting stuff. however it's time to give up on the bangs dude..
A deer ran between my brother and myself while hunting...
I'm a little surprised they didn't ever patch up the holes. But having played enough online shooters over the years, I'm not *remotely* surprised that a bunch of dudes in their late teens and early 20s didn't stop shooting at an enemy when their team mates were also in their line of fire 🤣
Lesson: Don’t hang out in the heads of Battleships while live fire is near by! 🤪
But if you have to, make sure it’s behind the armor bulkhead……
Applied for a purple heart for shrapnel from friendly fire....
Must have been an officer. 😂
That's not the worst I've heard of.
I cut myself shaving during Desert Storm I received a Purple Heart and Silver Star; I was in the Air Force so yea. lol
A wound caused by accidental friendly fire (or shrapnel) may or may not be eligible for the Purple Heart award. The command must decide if there was an enemy engaged at the time and if the American soldiers were under fire. So if their was a missile inbounded that sailor has a case for receiving a purple heart.
Sucks when the armor is down so low when 20mm are shooting at you :(
I'm guessing no one wanted to patch those cool holes.
This is the first time I heard of someone surviving a 20mm round that didn't "just" hit a limb.
Same here, how on earth do you survive something like that? Must've been a fragment or something, a 20mm is friggin' _huge_ and usually in a hurry.
@@mace8873 unlikely to be a fragment, but maybe it was more of glancing shot.
@@svenneumann2816 Why do you think it's unlikely he was only struck by a fragment? I'm aware of the different ammo types used on land and sea, and I'll happily agree that you're basically _guaranteed_ that a land-based 20mm will eventually fragment, if it works as intended, but even one fired from a ship could fragment to some degree upon hitting something.
Very surprised. I would have patched
You are all wrong, Thay are speed holes for lightness.
yea definitely an interesting story
They didn't patch because of the sheer novelty of the holes.
I like all that fixing done on USS North Carolina. That torpedo did a lot more damage and killed crew.
U know what is scarry on modern ships that round could potentially go straight through the ship
Why did navies change post ww1? It feels like captains went from being eager beavers to captains who won't engage unless they have overwhelming advantages in battle.
That is a very complex question and I suspect it has more to do with naval doctrine and the progression of technology than it does with the individual captains. The ships and gunnery of post WWI naval combat were substantially different from pre WWI and so different tactics were adopted and refined. The flagships of WWI navies would have had difficulty even threatening the humblest of WWII ships, let alone engaging and sinking them so the methods for engagement changed to match the new, faster and more powerful ships.
If you'd like a spectacular story about more modern naval bravado, the channel Drachinifel has a splendid video about the Battle off Samar fought by the US Taffy 3 taskforce in WWII. A handful of destroyers, destroyer escorts and escort carriers were discovered and engaged by the main body of the IJN fleet, 23 ships, including the Yamato. Not only did over half of them survive, they managed to sink 3 of the Japanese heavy cruisers and inflict serious damage to many of the other large warships. It is quite the tale if you have an hour to hear it :)
Well, for one thing, ships got way, way, _way_ more expensive, which made admiralties much more reluctant to risk losing them.
Bottom line as in all battles, the one item that gets our troops KIA. ROE's aka rules of engagement. Politicians playing with the pawns of war. Back in the 70's the US navy was in the med doing joint maneuvers with several other NATO countries when a Soviet ship came dangerously close to another NATO ship. A French frigate changed course and took after the Soviet ship with its guns blaring dropping rounds fore and aft of the Soviet ship moving it away from the exercises. We found out that the French captains of their fleet are the decision makers as to engage or not another vessel of unfriendly forces to protect the fleet. And the brass kojones award goes to the French navy.
U need to have talked about USS Alabama when she lost her lost of life
Not repaired for fear of a radioactive dust into the air as cleaning repairing? Not thoroug - was the first hole external to internal closed off.
I'm kind of suprised they didn't patch the pipe. the interior holes, maybe back in ww2 they'd have patched it, by the 90s I think they knew the ships were bound for a museum, or god forbid, the scrappers
Two separate ships both getting hit by friendly fire in the bathroom? Is there no-place anywhere to go to the can in peace?
I thought that Missouri was hit by a kamikaze during the battle of Okinawa. Is there any evidence from it today?
Yes, it's part of the tour. You can see where there's some bend in the side.
Those aren't bullet holes. Those are improvised BO and Flatus ventilation units.
Bullet in wall 3:08
You're welcome
I' d believe it was tooling that chipped the paint.
wait. a friggin cwis did this to a Battleship? damn