An interesting corner case for Sporogenic Infection is to cast it on your own creature if your opponent only has one creature. I don't think it affects the grade too much, but it does mean you can still hit your opponent's only creature as long as you have a creature.
My question is how do you win within 3 turns of casting this creature? You draw 2 cards per turn, so only have 3 turns to win instead of the 6 your opponent has
@keiharris332 if you live in magical christmas land you can use that terrible 6 mana chandelier thing to shuffle cards from you graveyard into your library.
@@keiharris332You only have to deal 2 damage before turn 6 to get to lethal. Unless they kill it on attack the last turn, in which case you need to deal an extra 6 as well that turn, but you get 3 more cards to do that with. Also going mono-black could let you have a valgavoth build around too. But going mono black in general is pretty magical Christmas land. Unless you get two of these/the tutors and all the best black cards it really doesn't feel like it is gonna viably happen. Still though, like he said, these are cards that are gonna get passed and ignored very consistently and historically clever skilled players have been able to achieve great success with those kinds of cards. Kinda like how the worst color in the set can be the best when nobody else is even considering drafting it.
I think Resurrected Cultist is better than you give it credit for. It's a great card to mill or put into the graveyard with manifest dread. It also does a good job trading with larger creatures, and you don't mind trading for a two or three drop since you know you can get it back at some point. I think it will be a solid common pickup for any deck that cares about the graveyard.
Everyone is low on black. It's easy to forget that the floor of solid black removal spells is already pretty high. This is most likely a supporting color, but it will be better than people expect. The Manifest Dread rat is going to be ridiculous at common. Throw together the 2 cmc lifelinker, the 4 cmc deathtoucher, and some removal, you have a solid 2nd color.
I think you’re being waaay too generous with Meathook Massacre II. Maybe it’s a B- in Standard, but in limited you have to pay 2BBBB to get a single edict.
Idk, I see Meathook Massacre II as a sort of inverse to the original. The original got most of its value from the scaling -X/-X effect on EtB, whereas this (unless you have a ludicrous amount of mana), will get a lot of value just by existing on the battlefield. Getting to pay 3 life to instantly reanimate any creature you control that dies while also reanimating every creature that dies under your opponents control unless *they* pay 3 life sounds absolutely miserable to play against. It kinda gives me Grave Pact vibes as a 4 mana hard to cast black enchantment that significantly changes one of the main dynamics of limited gameplay (creatures dying) in a way significantly favorable to you.
Shame to see Popular Egotist not reference Scornful Egotist. Then again, he is awfully scornful, and hanging around someone like that does not tend to make one very popular.
yeah, the ceiling is huge, but if you're not in monoblack (which would be rare to be in for a draft) how soon are you likely to have 4 black mana? it's unlikely turn 4, and by the time you can get it down you'll probably need something that has better impact to the board unless you were already winning or at parity, and if you were at parity, do you really want to basically skip a turn playing this? most cases probably not. there will be times when you can play this for 6 or 8 where it might help you stabalize, but it really feels like a win more card unless you somehow manage to find your way into a grind fest where both of you aren't flooding the board
How much better would Come back Wrong have been if it gave the creature haste? Basically a black version of a threaten effect but permanently removing the opponent’s creature.
A- or B+ I would think Not a true bomb as you would need to depend on the opponent playing a good enough creature that can rumble large enough that you if not answered results in a blowout Like say anything 5 power plus creature revealed later in this set review. Wiping out at least a quarter of an opponent life total for 3 mana PLUS getting both ETB and death triggerd
Question: if you made a limited set review for Alpha back in 1993 (somehow), what would the bombs of that set be?? Are there any A’s or A+’s??? Obviously cards like black lotus and the mox are not great limited cards. Maybe a hill giant is a B, given the meta. I’m very curious overall.
@@shappah221 well idk. You’re right in that respect, but colors still had alright identity, and core sets are draftable despite being generally without many synergies/mechanics. At the end of the day, you could draft it, and some stuff should be taken over others. Hence, grades.
Black lotus and moxen are great limited cards lol, casting a serra angel on turn 2 would be gg. That's why they are still the cards you take first in a pack in vintage cube almost always
@@slaphappy-qb3jb you are absolutely right. Except I play exclusively drafts for a week whenever new set drops, but other than that you are absolutely right.
Pretty low on Black this set. Murder is the only truly premium common in the color this time around, and even that's not what it once was. Good to see you're higher on Fear of Lost Teeth than some others I've seen around, as I've been higher on it too. Also, it feels like the Flash on Appendage Amalgam is underrated. Anyways, great stuff as always.
@@Jetsetdreams_ I mean, Doomed Dissenter was decent filler last time we saw it, and this is basically the same card with a bit more oomph. I can see it being one of Black's better commons.
If you cast doomsday, you lose in 3 turns. If it attacked every turn alone unbuffed, you would deal 18 total damage. This card seems terrible if hard casted
It doesn't affect the combat math for blockers on either side and how first strike + double strike make blocks and attacks so much more difficult is their main power in limited. I'd argue it doesn't even give them something as good as pseudo first strike much less double strike for limited purposes since its meaningless even for lifelinkers usually unless they're on the attack and go unblocked, so no you're definitely overrating this vastly.
It does give lifelink creatures guaranteed damage and double damage to players, not to mention the fact that there are a lot of low rarity instants that gain you life. Staple that to an average creature that can trigger your enchantment payoffs and stick around to help boost your life gain cards even after it dies and I think it can be a massive threat. It's also two types for cards with delerium if you put it in your graveyard. Overall, I think you can really cook with enduring tenacity.
@@Mississippi_Jack About 90% of what you just wrote is an entirely seperate topic. It doesn't make your other creatures with lifelink better in a way that even approaches "pseudo double strike", full stop. I wasn't evaluating the power level of the card, I was just evaluating your statement.
Lol As soon as I saw the picture and saw it was a black vampire in leather? Blade jumped to mind as this set is all about "modern" horror tropes/movies. aka 70s era and later
Wow i believe most people would not agree on leyline of the void being an F. From what I've been told this card single handed saved many years of metas. Everytime it gets reprinted it puts in work. Very confused with the F grade.
This video is about Limited. Almost everyone would agree it's an F there. If they know what they are talking about. We even have data to support that. I have praised the Leyline many time in 60 card formats in other videos (top 10 leylines for example). But that's not what we are talking about here.
Only really affects two archetypes. The delirium and the reanimator deck type Doesn't affect directly the Eerie, manifest dread or the Room decks and limited value versus the r/b sacrifice deck You draft and play thiss over any other potential card and you lose more often than not against any other limited deck you face
I think it's worth noting that even against those decks it's bad. Part of what makes the Leyline so good in 60-card formats is how all-in decks are on graveyard shenanigans. Even a delirium deck in this format having delirium shut off can win the game through the Leyline, and pretty often.
@@NizzahonMagic Agreed Just hitting your land drops, curving out and playing efficient cards and that is at least 75% of my success I find CONSTRUCTED is about synergizing your deck to the best of your ability. LIMITED is about efficiency. Sure, like last set there are sets that are heavily about synergies (bloomburrow I drafted some first time constructed level of synergy decks) but I don't think this set is one of those
I would say that nizzahon needs to recalibrate his mana efficiency independent of previous sets. What he calls undercoated is shaped by previous sets and rarities which I don't think should factor into judging these cards. You should look at the p/t of each card in regards to how it matches up with other cards of that same colour and rarity and also in contrast with other colours Is a 3/4 for 4 in a common bad if in that colour there are no other creatures at that rarity and cost that have better total stats and against the other colours, only green has more than 1 common that can beat this card in terms of total p/t
@@NizzahonMagic I disagree with the idea of you "hating" a colour. That makes no sense. What I do think though is that judging how efficient a card is should NOT be judged based on past cards but ONLY compared to what exists in the set. What is the most common p/t total for each mana value overall AND per colour per rarity. If among the 5 colours, only white and green at common get a 3/3 for 3 and everybody else is stuck at 2/2, one can't really say a 2B that is a 2/2 at common undercosted If
@@AllisterH I think that's fair, but when we're doing a set review it is incredibly hard to perfectly contextualize the cards. We can do our very best - and I do think about the stat-lines and everything, as well as what the removal and mechanics look like - but a lot of that is very hard to feel out in a format and in my experience, most of the time judging cards based on past formats is very useful. There are going to be some outliers, of course -- but even if we deeply study every single card in the set, there are interactions and stat-lines that are worse/better than you expect. There's just too many game pieces to pull that off before playing with them. That's the exact reason I do videos where I explain why X card isn't as good or is better than I expected.
![เปิดบ้าน นาราเครปกระเทย 1 ไร่ ขายขาดทุนหลัก10ล้าน เอามาใช้หนี้!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jz84VFWVP4/mqdefault.jpg)
An interesting corner case for Sporogenic Infection is to cast it on your own creature if your opponent only has one creature. I don't think it affects the grade too much, but it does mean you can still hit your opponent's only creature as long as you have a creature.
Fun unsurprising fact: Doomsday Excruciator is the first 6 black mana costed card
Are there any other cards that cost 6 pips of any one color?
@@LazarusIsBackBaby Yes, there's Primalcrux for green. Nothing for the other colors.
Of course, BFM is FIFTEEN black mana. LOL.
So you're saying that top ten list isn't forthcoming.
Fun fact you can cast it for 0 and then lose
"Murder used to be great" -nizzahon 2024
I'd vote for him
I would also give doomsday excruciator A+ in a mono black buildaround. Plus the fact that there is a tutor for it that usually gets passed
My question is how do you win within 3 turns of casting this creature? You draw 2 cards per turn, so only have 3 turns to win instead of the 6 your opponent has
@keiharris332 if you live in magical christmas land you can use that terrible 6 mana chandelier thing to shuffle cards from you graveyard into your library.
@@keiharris332You only have to deal 2 damage before turn 6 to get to lethal. Unless they kill it on attack the last turn, in which case you need to deal an extra 6 as well that turn, but you get 3 more cards to do that with. Also going mono-black could let you have a valgavoth build around too. But going mono black in general is pretty magical Christmas land. Unless you get two of these/the tutors and all the best black cards it really doesn't feel like it is gonna viably happen.
Still though, like he said, these are cards that are gonna get passed and ignored very consistently and historically clever skilled players have been able to achieve great success with those kinds of cards. Kinda like how the worst color in the set can be the best when nobody else is even considering drafting it.
From what I have seen you can jace mill them, or outrageous robbery, breach the multiverse the turn after you play the demon@@keiharris332
The art for Demonic Counsel is just amazing
I think Resurrected Cultist is better than you give it credit for. It's a great card to mill or put into the graveyard with manifest dread. It also does a good job trading with larger creatures, and you don't mind trading for a two or three drop since you know you can get it back at some point. I think it will be a solid common pickup for any deck that cares about the graveyard.
Everyone is low on black. It's easy to forget that the floor of solid black removal spells is already pretty high. This is most likely a supporting color, but it will be better than people expect. The Manifest Dread rat is going to be ridiculous at common. Throw together the 2 cmc lifelinker, the 4 cmc deathtoucher, and some removal, you have a solid 2nd color.
I think you’re being waaay too generous with Meathook Massacre II. Maybe it’s a B- in Standard, but in limited you have to pay 2BBBB to get a single edict.
Idk, I see Meathook Massacre II as a sort of inverse to the original. The original got most of its value from the scaling -X/-X effect on EtB, whereas this (unless you have a ludicrous amount of mana), will get a lot of value just by existing on the battlefield. Getting to pay 3 life to instantly reanimate any creature you control that dies while also reanimating every creature that dies under your opponents control unless *they* pay 3 life sounds absolutely miserable to play against.
It kinda gives me Grave Pact vibes as a 4 mana hard to cast black enchantment that significantly changes one of the main dynamics of limited gameplay (creatures dying) in a way significantly favorable to you.
Yeah, you might be right.
@@NizzahonMagic The flavor win of trying to convince yourself that the sequel is as good as the original when deep down you know it's not lol
Shame to see Popular Egotist not reference Scornful Egotist. Then again, he is awfully scornful, and hanging around someone like that does not tend to make one very popular.
6:42 good to note that the Defiled Crypt side triggers Eerie
twice all by itself, as the token it makes when unlocked is also an enchantment
Need to be able to have something leave the battlefield sincd it won't trigger itself
casting meathook massacre for 4 mana is insane. all your creatures get an extra life and all of theirs have "deal 3 dmg when this dies"
yeah, the ceiling is huge, but if you're not in monoblack (which would be rare to be in for a draft) how soon are you likely to have 4 black mana? it's unlikely turn 4, and by the time you can get it down you'll probably need something that has better impact to the board unless you were already winning or at parity, and if you were at parity, do you really want to basically skip a turn playing this? most cases probably not.
there will be times when you can play this for 6 or 8 where it might help you stabalize, but it really feels like a win more card unless you somehow manage to find your way into a grind fest where both of you aren't flooding the board
If you watch the pre pre release on LRR grievous wound put in a TON of work
How much better would Come back Wrong have been if it gave the creature haste? Basically a black version of a threaten effect but permanently removing the opponent’s creature.
A- or B+ I would think
Not a true bomb as you would need to depend on the opponent playing a good enough creature that can rumble large enough that you if not answered results in a blowout
Like say anything 5 power plus creature revealed later in this set review. Wiping out at least a quarter of an opponent life total for 3 mana PLUS getting both ETB and death triggerd
That would be literally bs, since its cheaper than most threaten effects and gets past the main down side of those all by itself
I think leyline of the void needs a sideboard grade in this set. No?
Question: if you made a limited set review for Alpha back in 1993 (somehow), what would the bombs of that set be?? Are there any A’s or A+’s??? Obviously cards like black lotus and the mox are not great limited cards. Maybe a hill giant is a B, given the meta.
I’m very curious overall.
Those old sets weren't designed for limited, there would be no synergies to base grades on
Shivan dragon and Serra angel would be the biggest bombs
@@shappah221 well idk. You’re right in that respect, but colors still had alright identity, and core sets are draftable despite being generally without many synergies/mechanics. At the end of the day, you could draft it, and some stuff should be taken over others. Hence, grades.
@@viken5909And Sengir Vampire and Mahamoti Djinn…
Black lotus and moxen are great limited cards lol, casting a serra angel on turn 2 would be gg. That's why they are still the cards you take first in a pack in vintage cube almost always
19:38 Question on the timing: is the hexproof disabling active when you target a creature for the first part ("when it enters")?
Yes. Once it enters, creatures your opponent controls loose hexproof so you can target them because this is an enchantment, not an Aura
Black looks really bad in this set. The cost of black dominating Standard I guess.
Found the salty mono red aggro player
@@slaphappy-qb3jb you are absolutely right. Except I play exclusively drafts for a week whenever new set drops, but other than that you are absolutely right.
Unholy Annex is a B at best. The demon side is way too expensive for a French vanilla and the card draw is too slow.
Pretty low on Black this set. Murder is the only truly premium common in the color this time around, and even that's not what it once was. Good to see you're higher on Fear of Lost Teeth than some others I've seen around, as I've been higher on it too. Also, it feels like the Flash on Appendage Amalgam is underrated. Anyways, great stuff as always.
the manifest dread rat is going to be this set's sleeper. Insane at common.
@@Jetsetdreams_ I mean, Doomed Dissenter was decent filler last time we saw it, and this is basically the same card with a bit more oomph. I can see it being one of Black's better commons.
@@Nouxatar Right. And the surveil + morph potential is quite a boost. Plays so well within the set.
yes, the unholy lobby, quite a room
Donnelly Manors
i think final vengeance is underappreciated... exile is important
If you cast doomsday, you lose in 3 turns. If it attacked every turn alone unbuffed, you would deal 18 total damage. This card seems terrible if hard casted
Oof, black is looking pretty weak on this one
Kinda funny giving this set is a Slaher/Terror film set
Black rares seem lacking only clunky enchantment and nearly no creatures
Finally!
Enduring Tenacity gives your lifelink creatures pseudo double strike. I like it!
It doesn't affect the combat math for blockers on either side and how first strike + double strike make blocks and attacks so much more difficult is their main power in limited. I'd argue it doesn't even give them something as good as pseudo first strike much less double strike for limited purposes since its meaningless even for lifelinkers usually unless they're on the attack and go unblocked, so no you're definitely overrating this vastly.
It does give lifelink creatures guaranteed damage and double damage to players, not to mention the fact that there are a lot of low rarity instants that gain you life. Staple that to an average creature that can trigger your enchantment payoffs and stick around to help boost your life gain cards even after it dies and I think it can be a massive threat. It's also two types for cards with delerium if you put it in your graveyard. Overall, I think you can really cook with enduring tenacity.
@@Mississippi_Jack About 90% of what you just wrote is an entirely seperate topic. It doesn't make your other creatures with lifelink better in a way that even approaches "pseudo double strike", full stop. I wasn't evaluating the power level of the card, I was just evaluating your statement.
Dashing bloodsucker and purple accents makes me think someone cutting onions before him so he have red teary eyes. 🤪
Lol
As soon as I saw the picture and saw it was a black vampire in leather?
Blade jumped to mind as this set is all about "modern" horror tropes/movies. aka 70s era and later
19:15 taken out of context is great
Wow i believe most people would not agree on leyline of the void being an F. From what I've been told this card single handed saved many years of metas. Everytime it gets reprinted it puts in work. Very confused with the F grade.
This video is about Limited. Almost everyone would agree it's an F there. If they know what they are talking about. We even have data to support that.
I have praised the Leyline many time in 60 card formats in other videos (top 10 leylines for example). But that's not what we are talking about here.
Only really affects two archetypes. The delirium and the reanimator deck type
Doesn't affect directly the Eerie, manifest dread or the Room decks and limited value versus the r/b sacrifice deck
You draft and play thiss over any other potential card and you lose more often than not against any other limited deck you face
I think it's worth noting that even against those decks it's bad. Part of what makes the Leyline so good in 60-card formats is how all-in decks are on graveyard shenanigans. Even a delirium deck in this format having delirium shut off can win the game through the Leyline, and pretty often.
@@NizzahonMagic Agreed
Just hitting your land drops, curving out and playing efficient cards and that is at least 75% of my success I find
CONSTRUCTED is about synergizing your deck to the best of your ability.
LIMITED is about efficiency.
Sure, like last set there are sets that are heavily about synergies (bloomburrow I drafted some first time constructed level of synergy decks) but I don't think this set is one of those
Nizzahan seems to hate Black for no apparent reason 🤷♂
I would say that nizzahon needs to recalibrate his mana efficiency independent of previous sets.
What he calls undercoated is shaped by previous sets and rarities which I don't think should factor into judging these cards.
You should look at the p/t of each card in regards to how it matches up with other cards of that same colour and rarity and also in contrast with other colours
Is a 3/4 for 4 in a common bad if in that colour there are no other creatures at that rarity and cost that have better total stats and against the other colours, only green has more than 1 common that can beat this card in terms of total p/t
lol wut
@@NizzahonMagic I disagree with the idea of you "hating" a colour. That makes no sense.
What I do think though is that judging how efficient a card is should NOT be judged based on past cards but ONLY compared to what exists in the set.
What is the most common p/t total for each mana value overall AND per colour per rarity.
If among the 5 colours, only white and green at common get a 3/3 for 3 and everybody else is stuck at 2/2, one can't really say a 2B that is a 2/2 at common undercosted
If
@@AllisterH I think that's fair, but when we're doing a set review it is incredibly hard to perfectly contextualize the cards. We can do our very best - and I do think about the stat-lines and everything, as well as what the removal and mechanics look like - but a lot of that is very hard to feel out in a format and in my experience, most of the time judging cards based on past formats is very useful.
There are going to be some outliers, of course -- but even if we deeply study every single card in the set, there are interactions and stat-lines that are worse/better than you expect. There's just too many game pieces to pull that off before playing with them.
That's the exact reason I do videos where I explain why X card isn't as good or is better than I expected.