There is no better feeling than discovering things that unintentionally fit perfectly and going "Fuck it, let's see how far this can go" and it works incredibly
If I remember correctly a 9mm shell will seal airtight over a 5.56 shell like a cap. Cut down a couple matches and store them in there, or whatever else you need to keep safe from the elements. Don’t press too hard or you’ll have a tough time getting them apart, and over time it’ll stop sealing up since brass is so ductile it deforms from the repeated pressure.
A live 32acp fits snugly inside a 38 special case. A 40mm projectile is only 2mm smaller than a golf ball. Couple layer of tape and that's no longer the case.
Imagine if someone used rounds like that in a crime and they pulled the round and found a whole shell in them like those animations of whole cartridges flying out the barrel.😅
Helpful hint when cutting threads in Aluminum with a die use automatic transmission fluid as a lubricant. It works amazing my grandpa taught me that when I was about ten years old in 1980. Awesome concept I love this!!
An 80ish year old machinist in the early 1970's taught me to use Prestone antifreeze for a great solution on machining aluminum for superior finishes in lathe work. But if your process happens to create a mist or spray don't breathe it.
Sort of like turducken. Now I want to see a shell fired from a shell in a shell. Sorry I accidentally posted in the wrong comment section. Damnit now I got to look for the post in a sea of other comments.
Speer bullets started as a small business selling tools to reform spent 22lr cases into 223 bullet jackets for home reloaders. I’ve also seen 9mm cases formed into 40 S&W bullets and 40 S&W cases formed into 45 acp bullets.
Dude, I will send you 3-400 cases of 5.7x28 brass. Just tell me where to send it. Also, to knock off the coating, you can use steel pins in a tumble washer. If you wanted to prolong the life of the barrel, coat them in boron nitride, even powder coating, or adding bullet lube would help. The bearing surface of a bullet is directly related to the pressure wave behind it. The faster wear on a barrel is also directly related to the type of steel and steel thickness. Harmonics are caused by ignition, but contrary to popular belief, it isn't the heat of the powder and gas which causes a barrel to heat rapidly. It is the rapid expansion of the steel of the barrel as the pressure wave travels down the barrel and dissipates. This expansion/contraction heats the steel much faster than just the hot gas. It's closer to 18,600fps compared to a bullet travelling at only, for example 2650-2950, out of most 30 caliber base cartridges like 308, 303, & 6.5 Creedmoor. There are quite a few expert barrel makers on Erik Cortina's channel, Believe the Target, who explain harmonics well, and Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistic books also discuss this to some length. Erik even has the guy who originally applied harmonic tuners to rifle barrels. He learned about it as a kid hitting radio tower guy wires and listening to the twang sound. That was his first introduction. This is one reason moly or boron nitride coated bullets extend a barrel's life. They are slick so the pressure wave doesn't expand the barrel as much due to the friction of the bearing surface being reduced.
You seem to be the person to ask this, but because they are also "open ended" like hollow point and lead filled, wouldn't the "squish" of the lead have some play to not be so harsh in engaging the rifling?
Bingo! and AMEN. Just like compressed air, or hydraulic fliud! Pressure make things Hot! Oh WAIT thats how a diesel works, another moment And a Jet Turbin? So they say. I'm working out a diesel affect, anti humidity, less fouling, or corrosion AMP for my muzzle loaders mixed into the propellant loke a f.o.b? I have watched Large steam lines jump and dance when a slug of condensation hits a turn, why not a barrel?
I've used similar methods to make .458 bullets out of .308 cases. The thing i noticed was that it takes a lot more powder to drive them to the same speed as lead bullets with the same weight and seating depth. This is when given the same space for powder in the .458 case. Hence pressure can probably spike if you are close to max loads. The same applies to most solids so it's not new knowledge, but worth mention to new re-loaders. There is probably a good idea to anneal the 5,7 cases after forming to reduce the work hardness of the brass. Should increase performance, reduce barrel wear and lower pressure.
That is good to know about it taking more powder to drive them to the same velocities. Thanks for this. I was wondering why he didn't anneal the cases myself as I've read this was a necessary step.
This is the first time ive seen anything from this channel before. I had to say that the little animation he used to show what steps were being done in the lathe is the most innovative thing ive ever seen on metal or wood working channels. I think most makers assume that you know exactly whats going on and you are following whats being said. Great video. Ive heard of people doing this before and it was nice to see it done for fun. I also heard of people using .22lr brass to form 5.7×28 projectiles for loading. Of course, this was back when only one company was producing the ammo, FN.
Using stuff others consider junk in a way that is EFFECTIVE, LOW COST and Unique are the HALLMARKS of a Great Mind. I go to ranges sometimes and pick up brass to reload, I own a Ruger 57 and plan on getting a carbine Rifle to complete the set. I know you are getting hate for doing this because 5.7 x 28mm can be hard to find and EXPENSIVE! Some 5.7 brass cannot be reloaded or are just shot out (you can only reload one or more times before the neck of the brass hardens to the point of failure). I am going to try your BRILLIANT plan with some shootout 5.7. Great Vid you have a new Subscriber!
And this here is how better ammo is figured out.. experementation like this... You came up with the question, the hypothesis, the experement, and the best answer you could provide while working with the tools you have... IM IMPRESSED!!!!❤❤❤
I just got into reloading and am thoroughly impressed by your work. You definitely earned my subscription and I'm very excited to continue watching in the future!
Well done. You'll put meat on the table with those if the Zombie Apocalypse happens and you have lots of 5.7x28mm brass. I used .30 Carbine brass (I had several hundred berdan primed brass) to make .357 projectiles. After prep, I loaded with lead shot and sealed with silicone sealant. A guy saw one of them stuck in the wood after shooting and said that something was wrong with my gun as it shot the entire cartridge out.
Some boattail bullets are shaped a lot like those, instead of straight tapered. They're called Rebated Boattails and David Tubb's high-BC DTAC (David Tubb Advanced Concepts in Ammunition) 6mm 115grain bullet uses it. A rebated boattail bullet obturates faster and more efficiently to the rifle bore. This results in quicker sealing and less gas blow-by. The result is a significant increase in accurate barrel life compared to a diet of conventional boattails. Specifically, the RBT design slows down barrel throat erosion. This erosion results from the "flame-cutting" effect of burning propellant gases, which is intensified by a conventional boattail design. Along with extending the accurate life of a new barrel, this also means that their 115 RBT will perform better in a rifle that's already suffering from throat erosion. During testing with an Oehler 88 at 1000 yards these bullets provided a measured G1 BC of .620! I don't work for David Tubb but have made some purchases from his company and been happy with them.
@@rakumprojectsYou're very welcome. I just happened to recall looking at those RBT bullets when I was buying some more AR-15 reliability parts, and bore lapping ammo.
Excellent project! I was nodding along as you narrated. I would def wet tumble to thoroughly clean. Use the basket spinning thing to get the pins out of the cases after washing (it works incredibly well) Ive heard not to dry the wet cases in an oven on low as it can soften the cases, but in this scenario, it's desirable, if, in fact, that info is correct. Lee makes a cheap flare tool for pistol cases or lead boolits so you can even up out of round necks easily. Again, great project, please continue! Best from sunny Australia 🇦🇺
Dude, you got some awesome tools/shop! And you're doing something fun and a bit crazy, but you're doing it well and making them right. People contradict each other in the comments about the barrel and tumbling. The rifling in the barrel is meant to stabilize the bullet in flight, which in turn keeps it from tumbling.
To add to your comments about barrel life and jacket construction - the Swiss had no issues with using cupronickel jackets in their GP11 projectiles, and there are many K31 rifles out there that have shot only that specific load throughout their entire life. And their barrels are perfectly fine.
Hold your horses cause a subsonic round has apparently been released. Now it will just travel all the way through slower, still no damage to critical organs.
Bravo my fellow reloaded! 👏 Innovative ideas and experiments is the keystone to knowledge, skills and evolution of new technologies/practices. A projectile/bullet is literally a chunk of material shaped & sized to a specific weight then yeeted out a barrel. It's just sad many in the comments don't understand that or manufacturers sell brass solid rounds or bullets made from everything from foam to hardened steel. Keep up the innovation and have fun doing it!
I love all the COD experts in firearms and ballistics talking their talk. "Hmmmm..... I wonder what would happen if I made a bullet from a spent casing?" "Hmmm, not as bad as I thought . Imma gonna tweek this crazy train and see whatsup." "Hmmmm.... not a great shot group, barely good *, but the damn thing got off the ground, flew the pattern, and landed....who woulda thought????" * the NORMATIVE circular probability of error at 100 yards for the Mini-14 is 3 [THREE] inches.... using commercial grade ammunition. This as a frame of comparison shows these Frankenrounds would hit a target close enough and do real damage. Many hunters in Africa would pull the bullet from their .303 and seat them BACKWARDS to make a flat nose. Apparently it was was more effective on BIG game.
To straighten up the case mouths, you might try using a universal case deprimeing tool with the decapping pin removed and the expander ball adjusted halfway up. I do this, esp when I tumble garbage range brass . Sometimes, the cases have debris inside, and does you tumbler no favors, putting that gunk through your equipment.. just a thought.
Further improvement idea: after filling the cases with lead, trim them all to roughly the same length on the lathe (putting an end mill in the lathe jaw and using a tool post jig would likely get the best results).
*You have the right idea. As a marine sniper I always thought bullets should be built more like arrows. I made some .308 slugs out of solid brass that were 2.5" long. I had to remove the bolt in order to load them. The bullet was longer than the powder cartridge but light since it had no lead! The result was amazing! Even at shots over 375 yards the bullet still had 85% of it's muzzle V. and Ft. Lb. energy at 1/4 mile!!! These long bullets carried all their mass in a slender aerodynamic shape so they fly with very flat trajectory. Next I made an Aluminum slug 4" long and results were even better. Same day all sniper bullets will have the shape of small arrows. Just a matter of time now.*
There is no way this happened. The twist rate of the barrel could not have possibly stabilized bullets of that length. Think you must have gotten the bullets mixed up with the crayons you were eating. Copper and brass solids generally require faster twist rates because they need to be longer for a given weight. You really think if this was a viable idea none of the ammunition companies on the planet would have implemented it yet?
@@MMBRM *I wanted to stop my post from becoming a "novel" but I did put brass bands (gas seals) round these longer bullets. Also all these slugs had a similar GRAIN weight since the metals I used are MUCH lighter than lead! It works! Try it!*
You can use 40 S&W cases to make 44 Mag bullets by filling them with lead and forming them using 8mm mauser dies. If you don't cut the rim off you can use it as a lubrication groove.
That's a great setup you have built. An excellent source of information and swaging equipment is Corbin Manufacturing in White City, OR. They have been swaging bullets for decades.
What really cleans brass in my opinion is a soak in warm water , a splash of Dawn, and a sprinkle of citric acid. The acid does not damage the brass. A vibrator or ultrasonic cleaner will help a lot but an occasional stir in a work bath should work too. Rinse in cold clear water. The citric acid can be found in the canning area of the grocery store.
Such a novel way to make functional ammunition for your old rifle. As for the brass being hard on the barrel, that brass may have been work hardened by your shaping the head, but that part of the brass isn't in contact with the barrel. IF you are concerned about work hardened brass casings causing damage, you already have what you need to anneal the brass (heat); you could do that, run it through your tumbler to clean off any residue and then they're ready for the lead core... As for shaping the nose of your custom bullets, look into carbide tipped glass and tile drill bits the holes they make look suspiciously bullet shaped 😉
I just did this in a 300 blackout using a .309 sizer. Works great for subs. Leave the extractor groove. Flat base bullets are easier to make accurate than boat tails. Don't worry about making them a Spitzer either it's just more work. Fill with lead, lube, size, wipe, them off and load them.
You can use stainless steel as a cutting tool for limited use on aluminum. You can make a reamer on the lathe to shape your aluminum die by cutting the bullet shape you desire on a piece of stainless. Then mill or grind away half on the long axis so a cross section has a "D" shape. Rough out the hole with a drill bit then follow with your D reamer. I've personally done this and it is amazing.
This was very interesting, you recognized problems, listened to a a lot of input and came up with a pretty darn good projectile. For the hardness of the brass, maybe annealing the case would help, but, as you noted, there are solid brass bullets out there that wouldn't be as malleable as a lead filled case. I am not anywhere close to the set up required to duplicate this, though I do have a .303 British Enfield, and oddly enough, an 8mm Lebel LeBerthier...also some 5.7x28 cases.
You can further soften the jacket by annealing the entire jacket before you start your forming. One complication of leaving the primer in is they will occasionally come out inside the formed completed round. This may lead to the occasional hang fire if the primer blocks the flash hole. But as you are casting the lead inside the case, you have little choice about that. I make .40 S&W rounds from 9mm pistol casings but trim the annealed case down to a smaller size and force in a lead core. I use the BT Sniper JHP die in a Walnut Hill swage press for this having broken a rockchucker.
I've got the same set from BT, LOL! I have had them for 10 years or more but haven't used them yet. I've been trying to come up with a way to anneal fairly large batches of 9mm brass and here a while back, my wife decided she didn't want her stainless steel barbecue pit anymore and was gonna junk it. There's nothing wrong with it and it's a really large pit, so I think my problem may be solved there. I also pick up any brass I find at our Range where I'm a Life Member, because it seems that no one else there reloads and I don't want to see brass go to waste. I've probably got 5,000 + pieces of 5.7x28 brass that I've picked up at the range. I'd originally planned on reloading those for my son but have since changed my mind on that and am considering anneal them also and turning them into .30 cal projectiles. I need to get a .308 cal sizing die to run them through after annealing them. (FWIW, I've also got BT's .22 cal derimming die for .22 LR brass but have so many Hornady 55 gr projectiles, I haven't even started that yet)
This is so cool. It’d be fun to shoot the same load at a handful of ranges, chrono them, and work out a rough BC. Also- for making one-off sizing dies, I keep a couple pieces of 7/8-14 allthread on hand, and just lop off what I need. I hate doing single point threading, so the few extra dollars to Grainger saves me a lot of frustration.
For those concerned with the hard brass, the boat tail cut removes the supported case wall from the bore contact area. Would annealing soften the case enough to matter? When building a experimental case forming die, regrind the tap or drill bit to get a smooth curve to your case/jacket. I've watched many videos using 22LR brass cases to form .223/5.56 jackets.
@rakumprojects Just out of curiosity, how has that lathe treated you? Heard a lot of mixed reviews on grizzly products. I'd like to buy a small lathe for my own projects, but it seems hard to find something decent without spending a fortune
@@kevinfitzpatrick5949 It's a good lathe if you work within it's limitations. It's much more solid than a mini lathe, but can't do much barrel work with the short bed and small 3/4" through hole. I will upgrade eventually to something like a 14x40.
A couple of suggestions of sorts, I have made a bunch of bullet molds and custom dies on my lathe and mill and for the taper, I make custom ogive reamers by chucking up either HSS blanks or old drill bits and grind them to shape using a tool post grinder and then cut the grooves in on the mill and sharpen. My tool post grinder is a dewalt router mounted on a piece of 1/4 plate with a piece of 1/2 bar stock welded on to one side to be held in the tool post. You can forgo haing to cut the flutes by using a larger than needed drill bit. I wouldn't worry about cutting the rim off bc boat tails only come into play in bullet flight in the transsonic range and even with lught loads, that well past 100 yards. The boat tail actually increases barrel wear by channeling the high lressure gasses onto the meeting point of the bullet and rifling causing erosion. As for the hardness of the case, I agree that the cases are probably too hard for the rifling and you run the risk of ruining the barrel, however there is a VERY simple trick to keep this from happening, simply anneal the whole case prior to pouring the lead in by heating the whole thing up to cherry red with a torch and then cooling off, some like to drop it into a pan of water but that is not neccesary unless you want the water to blow off the oxides, it would also burn off any coating on the cases. One thing you might want to look into is how modern bullets are manufactured, the draw the jacket into a cup around the correct size, then either insert or pour in a slug of lead, then swage the bullet nose ogive and it squeezes the lead out and into all the wanted crevices inside the jacket. You could make a die or series of dies to accomplish the same thing after pouring your core. It would however reharden the nose of the bullet but as long as the sides werent worked, they will remain soft.
reminds me of a video i watched a few years ago of a guy using 22lr casings to make 5.56 fmj bullets, he did it differently and i think put them through a swaging die
I would love to see a gel, water jug test with these. Just a wild concept. Reminds me of a conversation I had with someone years ago about using 22LR and making their own .224 bullets.
You have some good skills and ideas, maybe consider building some tooling. You can start with a ball end mill and create your shap by regrinding the flutes and re edging them. It's doable. I was a journeyman machinist, i used to build bullet molds grinding all my own tooling. You young man are very talented in the adapt, improvise and over come department. Very well done.
For turning brass (like when you removed the rims), get yourself a bit of HSS and just grind relief angles on the front and side. The tool should have a totally flat top (zero rake). This will avoid having issues with the tool 'grabbing' and pulling in to the work. With such a tool I think with your lathe you should be able to take the whole rim off with one pass (no need to adjust the handwheel multiple times.
You could trim the brass shorter to get coal to mag length. Getting the point forming die profile closer to a proper point with a smaller meplat would help too.
I read one of the earlier posts and saw that somebody had mentioned the annealing so this was just adding to it. I believe if you wanted to go a step more you could anneal the whole case in an oven and that would soften the brass down a bit. Not positive but I believe that would work. 👍Good idea. Keep it going.
That people concerned about the toll on your rifling kinda surprised me. Even before you mentioned the historical precedent for solid brass and copper alloy bullets, I was aware that the process of filling the cases with molten lead would anneal them and with annealed brass against hardened steel it was evident who would win.
I was looking for .312 bullets yesterday for use in a .303 Enfield and a Mosin Nagant. I found 2 or 3 companies selling brass bullets that looked a lot like those in the video.
@@rakumprojects I hope to see the results. I pulled bullets from 7.62x54R ammo with corrosive primers, that I purchased very cheap after finding a craigslist ad. 440 rnds for 150 president pictures. I was planning to use them in my No4 Mk1's. Then a few weeks later, I traded 400 president pictures for a Mosin. My biggest concern was the barrel may be shot out, rusted and or pitted from corrosive ammo etc. But after cleaning the barrel with Ballistol, the bore looks good so far. The store I found the Mosin at has offered to use a Teslong bore camera to check it. Now I have to find some reloadable cases and reloading dies for the Mosin.
Don't worry about using empty cases for jackets people have been doing it for years. Remington has brass jacketed bullets called golden sabers. People have made 224 bullets out of 22 long rifle cases etc
i've seen people reloading .223 with bullets with jackets out of 5.6LR casings. It's a bit cumbersome but works for shooting-da-cans, if you bother reloading at all. Fly a better than .223 pure lead, comparable with bullets casted of harder lead alloys which may be pricey \ troublesome to compose right in diy environment, so it's somewhat worth it.
All good except for one fairly important detail. One should anneal the brass cases directly after the cleaning process to ensure they are as soft as possible. Other than that he should be good to go. His process will get better with the more he makes. I have done some 22 rim fire into 5.56 and found that being extra clean and annealing helps the most. I’m using thin wall copper tubing for the few that I make for 30 through 8mm calibers. It’s a tedious process but can have some good results.
I anneal and swage .22LR cases into .223 bullets. After annealing the brass is ridiculously soft -- have to be careful not to squash them soft. The melting point of lead is only about 60-80 lower than the full annealing temperature of brass (varies due to composition). I would assume that the brass here is considerably softer than when it starts due to being filled with molten lead. I haven't seen any barrel life issues other than I was able to keep shooting during the last bullet drought.
You could make a top feed cartridge holder that is also a lead mold, you pour from the top and it leaves behind a lead spitzer style point, then from there you can score the lead, drill a small core, and have a jacketed hollow point, with better B.C. and energy retention than the wadcutter tips.
another to add to the list, i love seeing what brass can be used to make jacketed bullets. i use 40 S&W and 357 SIG brass for jacketed bullets in my 44 mag
"Brass will wear out your barrel faster than a copper jacket!" Oh no. Someone might want to tell Cheytac, and all the other hyper-long range ammo manufacturers making solid brass bullets.
That is pretty fun! My brother makes a lot of his own dies for rifles that are out of style and you can't find production stuff for. It would be fun to see how these do on some gel and maybe a deer or two lol. Thank you for the video!
I would not be concerned about wearing the rifling out. but, you should use a solvent to remove the polymer coating from your rifle barrel. it WILL accumulate, causing higher pressures, and effect the accuracy. I do this (clean out the plastic residue) to my shotgun (plastic shot cups) and muzzle loading rifle (using plastic sabered projectles) after a long day shooting. It would actually be better to remove the polymer coating prior to tumbling. most polymers will dissolve with acetone. Which has worked for me. but I have come across some polymers that the only thing that I had to dissolve it was M.E.K. (Methyl Ethyl Ketone), THAT, is NASTY stuff!!! use it ONLY out of doors, with a fan blowing the fumes away from you at a 90 degree (at a right angle) to you, and wear chemical PROOF gloves. And MAKE CERTAIN that there is NO IGNITION SOURCE! M.E.K is both highly toxic, ESPECIALLY IF INHALED!, and very flammable. they do make a M.E.K. substitute, but I have never used it, so I do not know much about it. You are correct, this is a neat proof of concept experiment. BE CAREFUL, and good luck!
I had a pair of old swage dies that set untouched for a couple years and finally I got around to making some bullets using 5.7 cases, I annealed them with a torch and sized the jacket first to .306 and using RCBS bullet pulling collet mounted in a piece of aluminum plate. I used that to trim the cases down with a milling machine to make 125gr bullets for my 300 HAM'R. They were a bit tapered so I sized the bullet down to .3065", I really didn't expect much but I shot a 5 shot 0.77" group at 50 yards, that's 1.47 MOA. Velocity was 2400fps It was much better than what I expected! I didn't remove the rim, the gap was pretty much gone / compressed during point-forming.
@@rakumprojectsNo, the bore is standard .308 size. 300 HAM'R is like 300 blackout but longer case and focuses only on supersonic rounds, it also has slower 1:15 and 1:13 barrel twist. This works much more accurately with cast bullets and copper plated bullets. Next step I'll test it in my Win .308 when the weather becomes better. I can make the bullets heavier too as well as commercial jackets to compare with. So the reason I sized it to .306 (it actually came out .307) was to create a more straight shank so the bullet would be seated straight and even though its undersized, if you look at SAAMI specs the range of acceptable bullet was from .306 - .309. So I figured a bit undersized bullet might lose some velocity but it turns out the velocity was about the same. I also shot another group with 1/2 grain more powder and I got 2450fps but the group opened up to about 2 MOA with vertical stringing so I don't know if the gun needed cooldown or something else. Also, I am going to try nex to shoot them as is without sizing. From what I've seen in your video I would recommend a few things. 1. is that you anneal the case with a torch till it glows red, just put on a nail and heat it with a torch. You could also dip or drop it in a lead pot and keep it there for 10 seconds or so. These cases are thick so you don't have to worry about over annealing. 2. Vibratory tumbler doesn't really do a good job of removing soot and scale after annealing. I use wet tumbler and stainless steel pins loaded with citric acid (Lemishine) and some dish soap or Woolite (a must for lanolin based lubes). Also in my case if I wanted a heavier bullet I would machine an expander to expand the neck. I do that with 17 HMR cases and make them into 6.5mm bullets, works great.
@@DimaProkThanks for the info! I'll try annealing the whole case next time. And shorty after I filmed the video I bought a wet tumbler. I've been impressed with it so far. Will probably get rid of my vibratory tumbler.
The people who thought this was fake are hilarious. I love when people are confidently wrong, without understanding even some of the most basics of swaging.
When I swage I anneal the brass first. This would also take care of the plastic coating. An easy way to do it is to put them in your Lee melting pot without any lead in it. Put some aluminum foil over the top and crank it up. When they are all glowing red they are done. They will be as soft as any common copper jacketed hollow point. A wet wash with steel media will shine them back up again. If you really want better accuracy you'll need to press in a lead core instead of casting into the case. The best way is to swage a core with a squirt die, but I've done it with just pressing in a few pure lead cast bullets using a shop press.
Have used .223 brass to make .375" bullets and sized .250 Savage brass to make .458's along with using .303 brass sans rims (.457" base dia.) to make .458" bullets. Others I know have used .40 S&W and 100 Auto to make .429"/.430" bullets for the .44 Rem. Mag. revolvers and rifles. some require sizing. All but the pistol cases need trimming and forming. I annealed the brass to soften it to get reliable expansion. Pure lead for soft points, hard lead alloys for FMJ-type bullets.
honestly this is a genius way to make soft point rounds on a budget, next maybe try some .22 LR cases filled with lead and loaded backwards, or something like a .25ACP case could be interesting
So, the reason the driving bands are cut in copper solids and brass solids is because without them there is increased fouling. As solids don't *Squish* as well as lead or jacketed bullets The bands give a place to relive pressure or fouling to deposit verses getting shoved into the barrel. Even with the long bearing length of those projectiles the soft lead cores will allow it to swage easier in the barrel meaning you shouldn't see any ill effects of it. Your barrel life will have no meaningful difference, *Somewhat Off topic rant The biggest thing people need to get around is it's no so much the material, It's the hardness of the material. Steel, copper, brass can all be mixed, annealed, and hardened to a to varying degrees. There's a video out there showing that even some steel case ammo is softer than some brands of brass. Even SIG has used boxer primed copper washed 9mm steel case and no one notices any difference except for some reloaders who refuse to reload it (Google it there are quite a few thread of people making a big deal about it). Showing most of it is a placebo. People bring up OH steel case 9mm is nasty because it doesn't seal. No it's nasty because of the powder. Like my favorite 9mm reload uses titegroup and it is hot and nasty a single load on virgin brass will discolor it and leave a good amount of gunk in the gun however, I can and have, work up the same bullet and virgin brass with N320 and it comes out looking almost new. The same soft steel or even softer is used in the projectiles that are copper washed (Or zinc washed) sometimes, will show the same characteristics as copper jacketed or plated enough to the point there's no noticeable difference in barrel life. Rant over* Outside of the bearing surface, the swaging difference also is a reason why you can't use the same data for copper/brass solids. To the point that even if you compare both weight and similar bearing length of the copper solids to jacketed printed data will be a decent way off to what would be expected. Your brass jacketed pure lead core (Soft) will be fine. (Someone who reloads copper solids for hunting ammo 500mag, 300win)
Great video...don't worry about barrel wear, it will be just about nothing if any at all. The steel in the rifle barrel is much harder than the brass, no worries. keep on doing experiments. It's very interesting, thank you.
Another comment suggested bullet lube (Moly or BN). I would also consider annealing the brass. Not sure the molten lead is warm enough to do that. 303 bullets can be difficult to find! I have bought known, "crap" ammo (Berdan + cordite + "really old") just to pull the bullets.
I use lanolin grease and isopropyl as case lube in about a 7 to 1 ratio, you can dump all the cases in a ziplock back, dribble in a little and shake them around. it works as well as the RCBS wax but you can apply it in bulk.
If you want to remove the polymer coating more thoroughly, wet-tumble the cases with stainless steel pins. I use a Harbor Freight rock tumbler with my setup.
Polymer, brass, or aluminum tip. 3d print, and/or cast using a small foundry. Probably feed better. Mag lips can be filed or adjusted for beter feeding. Nice job.
Really impressed and enjoyed this alot. Nice to see good minds coming together to make something better. I hope this is indicative of your followers and content. Subscription added.
Japanese in WW2 had trouble sourcing metals for their bullets and would use whatever they could get a hold of. All lead, all copper, tin, brass you name it.
"Plus, we fire the whole bullet. That's 65% more bullet per bullet!"
-Cave johnson
@@thefiaguyUsername checks out.
"We' re done here!"
These bullets work 100%, 40% of the time.
@@svenstopke415say goodbye Caroline
Not sure why you’re getting hate. This is awesome. Bet most of the ppl in the comments do not even reload.
Its a smart concept. Ive seen 5.56 bullets from 22lr cases, and 40 cal bullets from 9mm cases and 45 acp from 40 cal cases.
I'd be willing to bet they barley even know how to shoot.... Call pf Duty 'xperts....
The ‘tism is a rough mistress I thinks.
I "reload" actually "initial load" as well, this is loaders "candy" excellent content 👍
I dont see a single negative comment. they all get pushed to the bottom. unpopular opinions are outlawed on redd, I mean youtube. same thing.
There is no better feeling than discovering things that unintentionally fit perfectly and going "Fuck it, let's see how far this can go" and it works incredibly
If I remember correctly a 9mm shell will seal airtight over a 5.56 shell like a cap. Cut down a couple matches and store them in there, or whatever else you need to keep safe from the elements. Don’t press too hard or you’ll have a tough time getting them apart, and over time it’ll stop sealing up since brass is so ductile it deforms from the repeated pressure.
that's how a lot of humanity's technological progress happened :) It's in our blood.
A live 32acp fits snugly inside a 38 special case. A 40mm projectile is only 2mm smaller than a golf ball. Couple layer of tape and that's no longer the case.
Imagine if someone used rounds like that in a crime and they pulled the round and found a whole shell in them like those animations of whole cartridges flying out the barrel.😅
Yeah the media would have a headache with that one!
Clearly it was done by an aperture science turret
Life and Reality are just as STRANGE as Fiction and Fantasy. Sometimes even STRANGER 💥🪃.
This was my first thought when I saw this video. "Wow, the investigator sure would be stumped to find a whole round of ammunition inside the victim."
Back in the day hunting dinosaurs I used hornet brass filled with solder in the old greener 410 it was fairly good on roos at 150yards
Helpful hint when cutting threads in Aluminum with a die use automatic transmission fluid as a lubricant. It works amazing my grandpa taught me that when I was about ten years old in 1980. Awesome concept I love this!!
Nice tip, I'll have to remember that
WD 40 works very well also...and when your polishing use WD. And it's readily available.@@rakumprojects
An 80ish year old machinist in the early 1970's taught me to use Prestone antifreeze for a great solution on machining aluminum for superior finishes in lathe work. But if your process happens to create a mist or spray don't breathe it.
Sort of like turducken. Now I want to see a shell fired from a shell in a shell. Sorry I accidentally posted in the wrong comment section. Damnit now I got to look for the post in a sea of other comments.
@@rakumprojects kerosene or diesel fuel works better than transmission fluid for machining aluminum. Better lubricity.
Speer bullets started as a small business selling tools to reform spent 22lr cases into 223 bullet jackets for home reloaders. I’ve also seen 9mm cases formed into 40 S&W bullets and 40 S&W cases formed into 45 acp bullets.
People have been making. 224 bullets out of 22 LR brass for years, great idea you had. Love the video. 😊
Came here to comment that. would love to see a video on that process
Agreed
I've been trying to get my hands on a set of original RCBS dies (or anything of the type) for years. To do exactly that.
224?
@@robertsmith6124look up Corbin swaging dies out of White city Or
Dude, I will send you 3-400 cases of 5.7x28 brass. Just tell me where to send it. Also, to knock off the coating, you can use steel pins in a tumble washer. If you wanted to prolong the life of the barrel, coat them in boron nitride, even powder coating, or adding bullet lube would help. The bearing surface of a bullet is directly related to the pressure wave behind it. The faster wear on a barrel is also directly related to the type of steel and steel thickness. Harmonics are caused by ignition, but contrary to popular belief, it isn't the heat of the powder and gas which causes a barrel to heat rapidly. It is the rapid expansion of the steel of the barrel as the pressure wave travels down the barrel and dissipates. This expansion/contraction heats the steel much faster than just the hot gas. It's closer to 18,600fps compared to a bullet travelling at only, for example 2650-2950, out of most 30 caliber base cartridges like 308, 303, & 6.5 Creedmoor. There are quite a few expert barrel makers on Erik Cortina's channel, Believe the Target, who explain harmonics well, and Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistic books also discuss this to some length. Erik even has the guy who originally applied harmonic tuners to rifle barrels. He learned about it as a kid hitting radio tower guy wires and listening to the twang sound. That was his first introduction. This is one reason moly or boron nitride coated bullets extend a barrel's life. They are slick so the pressure wave doesn't expand the barrel as much due to the friction of the bearing surface being reduced.
Gotta love seeing smart people commenting. It's refreshing, thanks
@@Dark-Knight-Cowboy prove it.
You seem to be the person to ask this, but because they are also "open ended" like hollow point and lead filled, wouldn't the "squish" of the lead have some play to not be so harsh in engaging the rifling?
Not an expert but the brass itself should stop it from expanding the lead like that.
Bingo! and AMEN. Just like compressed air, or hydraulic fliud! Pressure make things Hot! Oh WAIT thats how a diesel works, another moment And a Jet Turbin? So they say.
I'm working out a diesel affect, anti humidity, less fouling, or corrosion AMP for my muzzle loaders mixed into the propellant loke a f.o.b?
I have watched Large steam lines jump and dance when a slug of condensation hits a turn, why not a barrel?
"Cave Johnson here! Introducing the consumer version of our most popular military-grade product!"
"The turret!"
(This implies Military-Grade Turrets may use actual firearms/machine guns mounted in the "wings")
@@ewelinanajgebauer8862 But that would be less bullet per bullet, you really think the military wants that?
I've used similar methods to make .458 bullets out of .308 cases. The thing i noticed was that it takes a lot more powder to drive them to the same speed as lead bullets with the same weight and seating depth. This is when given the same space for powder in the .458 case. Hence pressure can probably spike if you are close to max loads. The same applies to most solids so it's not new knowledge, but worth mention to new re-loaders. There is probably a good idea to anneal the 5,7 cases after forming to reduce the work hardness of the brass. Should increase performance, reduce barrel wear and lower pressure.
That is good to know about it taking more powder to drive them to the same velocities. Thanks for this. I was wondering why he didn't anneal the cases myself as I've read this was a necessary step.
😅it will be easier to use. 35 Remington cases ,they are closet to
.458
@@Vile-Flesh Those cases would alreadybe annealed by the hot lead poured into them.
This is the first time ive seen anything from this channel before. I had to say that the little animation he used to show what steps were being done in the lathe is the most innovative thing ive ever seen on metal or wood working channels. I think most makers assume that you know exactly whats going on and you are following whats being said.
Great video. Ive heard of people doing this before and it was nice to see it done for fun. I also heard of people using .22lr brass to form 5.7×28 projectiles for loading. Of course, this was back when only one company was producing the ammo, FN.
Using stuff others consider junk in a way that is EFFECTIVE, LOW COST and Unique are the HALLMARKS of a Great Mind. I go to ranges sometimes and pick up brass to reload, I own a Ruger 57 and plan on getting a carbine Rifle to complete the set. I know you are getting hate for doing this because 5.7 x 28mm can be hard to find and EXPENSIVE! Some 5.7 brass cannot be reloaded or are just shot out (you can only reload one or more times before the neck of the brass hardens to the point of failure). I am going to try your BRILLIANT plan with some shootout 5.7. Great Vid you have a new Subscriber!
Would it not be possible to anneal 5.7x28 to prevent the necks from splitting.
@@Johnny-jr2lqabsolutely
HIGHLIGHT and SIGNIFY the CORE words
And this here is how better ammo is figured out.. experementation like this...
You came up with the question, the hypothesis, the experement, and the best answer you could provide while working with the tools you have...
IM IMPRESSED!!!!❤❤❤
This is how Vernon Speer started back in the day. funny to me how many people "know so much." Well done dude, this is pretty cool.
Yes and Rcbs actually stands for Rock Chuck Brass Swage Fred Huntingtons original purpose for the Rock chucker was swaging projectiles
Yep, old timer gunsmith told me to get a rock chucker... did so and the rest is historyl Spent many a dollar on Speer as well...
I think its cool when people pick up ammo and do stuff like this with it. idk its just freaking cool
I love this narrator, he has such an exuberance and vitality to the tone of his delivery that he should look into doing it professionally
I just got into reloading and am thoroughly impressed by your work. You definitely earned my subscription and I'm very excited to continue watching in the future!
I enjoy shooters who like to think out of the box. Good video, thanks.
this is so impressive the amount of machining that took
This feels like something someone would do in the post apocalypse in case of ammo shortages
It's people that think outside the box that survive this man would be very useful and apocalyptic situation
Most people make bullets by just casting the molten lead into molds. You would probably get more usefulness by reloading the casin
Well done. You'll put meat on the table with those if the Zombie Apocalypse happens and you have lots of 5.7x28mm brass.
I used .30 Carbine brass (I had several hundred berdan primed brass) to make .357 projectiles. After prep, I loaded with lead shot and sealed with silicone sealant.
A guy saw one of them stuck in the wood after shooting and said that something was wrong with my gun as it shot the entire cartridge out.
Some boattail bullets are shaped a lot like those, instead of straight tapered. They're called Rebated Boattails and David Tubb's high-BC DTAC (David Tubb Advanced Concepts in Ammunition) 6mm 115grain bullet uses it. A rebated boattail bullet obturates faster and more efficiently to the rifle bore. This results in quicker sealing and less gas blow-by. The result is a significant increase in accurate barrel life compared to a diet of conventional boattails. Specifically, the RBT design slows down barrel throat erosion. This erosion results from the "flame-cutting" effect of burning propellant gases, which is intensified by a conventional boattail design. Along with extending the accurate life of a new barrel, this also means that their 115 RBT will perform better in a rifle that's already suffering from throat erosion. During testing with an Oehler 88 at 1000 yards these bullets provided a measured G1 BC of .620! I don't work for David Tubb but have made some purchases from his company and been happy with them.
Interesting, I had no idea there was research into this. Thanks for the info!
@@rakumprojectsYou're very welcome. I just happened to recall looking at those RBT bullets when I was buying some more AR-15 reliability parts, and bore lapping ammo.
I never imagined you'd take my advice. I feel honoured
I love the fact that they are Boattail Softpoint 184 grain rounds. That seems like a lot of 💥FIREPOWER💥
Thanks!
Thank you!
Excellent project! I was nodding along as you narrated. I would def wet tumble to thoroughly clean. Use the basket spinning thing to get the pins out of the cases after washing (it works incredibly well)
Ive heard not to dry the wet cases in an oven on low as it can soften the cases, but in this scenario, it's desirable, if, in fact, that info is correct.
Lee makes a cheap flare tool for pistol cases or lead boolits so you can even up out of round necks easily.
Again, great project, please continue!
Best from sunny Australia 🇦🇺
I used the 5.7 in my 7.62x39 ar (with video evidence) works well thank you for the original video. Was my inspiration.
Dude, you got some awesome tools/shop! And you're doing something fun and a bit crazy, but you're doing it well and making them right.
People contradict each other in the comments about the barrel and tumbling. The rifling in the barrel is meant to stabilize the bullet in flight, which in turn keeps it from tumbling.
To add to your comments about barrel life and jacket construction - the Swiss had no issues with using cupronickel jackets in their GP11 projectiles, and there are many K31 rifles out there that have shot only that specific load throughout their entire life. And their barrels are perfectly fine.
Finally a decent use for 5.7
Hold your horses cause a subsonic round has apparently been released. Now it will just travel all the way through slower, still no damage to critical organs.
C'mon they're fun the first time too... reincarnation just multiplies it.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
You beat me to this comment 😂
punches through windshields, door panels and soft armor like they're not even there and you think 5.7 is useless?
Just ran across this. Kudos to you. Don't worry about the haters they're secretly jealous they didn't think of this.
Brings back memories of using 40S&W brass to make bullets for the 444 Marlin. It works well enough but is very time consuming.
Thank you for uploading this been wanting a full video
This was an awesome idea, and I like the thought out an controlled process you used to advance and develop your bullets
Bravo my fellow reloaded! 👏
Innovative ideas and experiments is the keystone to knowledge, skills and evolution of new technologies/practices.
A projectile/bullet is literally a chunk of material shaped & sized to a specific weight then yeeted out a barrel.
It's just sad many in the comments don't understand that or manufacturers sell brass solid rounds or bullets made from everything from foam to hardened steel.
Keep up the innovation and have fun doing it!
I love all the COD experts in firearms and ballistics talking their talk.
"Hmmmm..... I wonder what would happen if I made a bullet from a spent casing?"
"Hmmm, not as bad as I thought . Imma gonna tweek this crazy train and see whatsup."
"Hmmmm.... not a great shot group, barely good *, but the damn thing got off the ground, flew the pattern, and landed....who woulda thought????"
* the NORMATIVE circular probability of error at 100 yards for the Mini-14 is 3 [THREE] inches.... using commercial grade ammunition. This as a frame of comparison shows these Frankenrounds would hit a target close enough and do real damage. Many hunters in Africa would pull the bullet from their .303 and seat them BACKWARDS to make a flat nose. Apparently it was was more effective on BIG game.
I’d love to see one recovered after firing ! With the primer still there and everything !
Best gun content on youtube.
Wild to be using cases as the projectile never seen that before creative for sure
Thanks for showing the step by step of this, Been curious about this for quite a while now. Definitely going to tinker with this! Thank you!
I know some folks that made .458" bullets out of .308Win cases. They would turn the rim off to make a somewhat boattail.
To straighten up the case mouths, you might try using a universal case deprimeing tool with the decapping pin removed and the expander ball adjusted halfway up. I do this, esp when I tumble garbage range brass . Sometimes, the cases have debris inside, and does you tumbler no favors, putting that gunk through your equipment.. just a thought.
Further improvement idea: after filling the cases with lead, trim them all to roughly the same length on the lathe (putting an end mill in the lathe jaw and using a tool post jig would likely get the best results).
Not only you're a great engineer but also a great creator. Very entertaining, informative and enjoyable. Thank you; just subed.
*You have the right idea. As a marine sniper I always thought bullets should be built more like arrows. I made some .308 slugs out of solid brass that were 2.5" long. I had to remove the bolt in order to load them. The bullet was longer than the powder cartridge but light since it had no lead! The result was amazing! Even at shots over 375 yards the bullet still had 85% of it's muzzle V. and Ft. Lb. energy at 1/4 mile!!! These long bullets carried all their mass in a slender aerodynamic shape so they fly with very flat trajectory. Next I made an Aluminum slug 4" long and results were even better. Same day all sniper bullets will have the shape of small arrows. Just a matter of time now.*
th-cam.com/video/3Njddshr3n8/w-d-xo.html
Like tanks shoot with APFSDS? Except spin-stabilized instead of fin? And no sabot? Hm maybe not too similar as I first envisioned.
There is no way this happened. The twist rate of the barrel could not have possibly stabilized bullets of that length. Think you must have gotten the bullets mixed up with the crayons you were eating. Copper and brass solids generally require faster twist rates because they need to be longer for a given weight. You really think if this was a viable idea none of the ammunition companies on the planet would have implemented it yet?
@@MMBRM *I wanted to stop my post from becoming a "novel" but I did put brass bands (gas seals) round these longer bullets. Also all these slugs had a similar GRAIN weight since the metals I used are MUCH lighter than lead! It works! Try it!*
@@MMBRM Look up 7.92x41mm CETME, it's been done before.
Don't think the 1/10 twist rate of the old M40's would struggle either.
You can use 40 S&W cases to make 44 Mag bullets by filling them with lead and forming them using 8mm mauser dies. If you don't cut the rim off you can use it as a lubrication groove.
That's a great setup you have built. An excellent source of information and swaging equipment is Corbin Manufacturing in White City, OR. They have been swaging bullets for decades.
What really cleans brass in my opinion is a soak in warm water , a splash of Dawn, and a sprinkle of citric acid. The acid does not damage the brass. A vibrator or ultrasonic cleaner will help a lot but an occasional stir in a work bath should work too. Rinse in cold clear water. The citric acid can be found in the canning area of the grocery store.
Such a novel way to make functional ammunition for your old rifle. As for the brass being hard on the barrel, that brass may have been work hardened by your shaping the head, but that part of the brass isn't in contact with the barrel.
IF you are concerned about work hardened brass casings causing damage, you already have what you need to anneal the brass (heat); you could do that, run it through your tumbler to clean off any residue and then they're ready for the lead core...
As for shaping the nose of your custom bullets, look into carbide tipped glass and tile drill bits the holes they make look suspiciously bullet shaped 😉
I just did this in a 300 blackout using a .309 sizer. Works great for subs. Leave the extractor groove. Flat base bullets are easier to make accurate than boat tails. Don't worry about making them a Spitzer either it's just more work. Fill with lead, lube, size, wipe, them off and load them.
You can use stainless steel as a cutting tool for limited use on aluminum. You can make a reamer on the lathe to shape your aluminum die by cutting the bullet shape you desire on a piece of stainless. Then mill or grind away half on the long axis so a cross section has a "D" shape. Rough out the hole with a drill bit then follow with your D reamer. I've personally done this and it is amazing.
This was very interesting, you recognized problems, listened to a a lot of input and came up with a pretty darn good projectile. For the hardness of the brass, maybe annealing the case would help, but, as you noted, there are solid brass bullets out there that wouldn't be as malleable as a lead filled case. I am not anywhere close to the set up required to duplicate this, though I do have a .303 British Enfield, and oddly enough, an 8mm
Lebel LeBerthier...also some 5.7x28 cases.
You can further soften the jacket by annealing the entire jacket before you start your forming. One complication of leaving the primer in is they will occasionally come out inside the formed completed round. This may lead to the occasional hang fire if the primer blocks the flash hole. But as you are casting the lead inside the case, you have little choice about that. I make .40 S&W rounds from 9mm pistol casings but trim the annealed case down to a smaller size and force in a lead core. I use the BT Sniper JHP die in a Walnut Hill swage press for this having broken a rockchucker.
I've got the same set from BT, LOL! I have had them for 10 years or more but haven't used them yet. I've been trying to come up with a way to anneal fairly large batches of 9mm brass and here a while back, my wife decided she didn't want her stainless steel barbecue pit anymore and was gonna junk it. There's nothing wrong with it and it's a really large pit, so I think my problem may be solved there.
I also pick up any brass I find at our Range where I'm a Life Member, because it seems that no one else there reloads and I don't want to see brass go to waste. I've probably got 5,000 + pieces of 5.7x28 brass that I've picked up at the range. I'd originally planned on reloading those for my son but have since changed my mind on that and am considering anneal them also and turning them into .30 cal projectiles. I need to get a .308 cal sizing die to run them through after annealing them.
(FWIW, I've also got BT's .22 cal derimming die for .22 LR brass but have so many Hornady 55 gr projectiles, I haven't even started that yet)
This is so cool. It’d be fun to shoot the same load at a handful of ranges, chrono them, and work out a rough BC.
Also- for making one-off sizing dies, I keep a couple pieces of 7/8-14 allthread on hand, and just lop off what I need. I hate doing single point threading, so the few extra dollars to Grainger saves me a lot of frustration.
I had the same thought. I've been meaning to add 7/8 all thread to my next metals order, but I haven't needed any for a while.
For those concerned with the hard brass, the boat tail cut removes the supported case wall from the bore contact area. Would annealing soften the case enough to matter? When building a experimental case forming die, regrind the tap or drill bit to get a smooth curve to your case/jacket. I've watched many videos using 22LR brass cases to form .223/5.56 jackets.
For my next experiments I'll defiantly grind a tap to a form tool
@rakumprojects Just out of curiosity, how has that lathe treated you? Heard a lot of mixed reviews on grizzly products.
I'd like to buy a small lathe for my own projects, but it seems hard to find something decent without spending a fortune
@@kevinfitzpatrick5949 It's a good lathe if you work within it's limitations. It's much more solid than a mini lathe, but can't do much barrel work with the short bed and small 3/4" through hole. I will upgrade eventually to something like a 14x40.
A couple of suggestions of sorts, I have made a bunch of bullet molds and custom dies on my lathe and mill and for the taper, I make custom ogive reamers by chucking up either HSS blanks or old drill bits and grind them to shape using a tool post grinder and then cut the grooves in on the mill and sharpen. My tool post grinder is a dewalt router mounted on a piece of 1/4 plate with a piece of 1/2 bar stock welded on to one side to be held in the tool post. You can forgo haing to cut the flutes by using a larger than needed drill bit.
I wouldn't worry about cutting the rim off bc boat tails only come into play in bullet flight in the transsonic range and even with lught loads, that well past 100 yards. The boat tail actually increases barrel wear by channeling the high lressure gasses onto the meeting point of the bullet and rifling causing erosion.
As for the hardness of the case, I agree that the cases are probably too hard for the rifling and you run the risk of ruining the barrel, however there is a VERY simple trick to keep this from happening, simply anneal the whole case prior to pouring the lead in by heating the whole thing up to cherry red with a torch and then cooling off, some like to drop it into a pan of water but that is not neccesary unless you want the water to blow off the oxides, it would also burn off any coating on the cases.
One thing you might want to look into is how modern bullets are manufactured, the draw the jacket into a cup around the correct size, then either insert or pour in a slug of lead, then swage the bullet nose ogive and it squeezes the lead out and into all the wanted crevices inside the jacket. You could make a die or series of dies to accomplish the same thing after pouring your core. It would however reharden the nose of the bullet but as long as the sides werent worked, they will remain soft.
Hornady and Speer both got their start from turning 22lr cases into 22CF benchrest bullets.
I think this was an interesting test. Thank you for sharing it.
This is some true epic maker shit. Living vicariously through you!
Two things come to mind, the cases should be annealled (to protect the barrel) and sized before adding the lead (to stop lead deformation.)
reminds me of a video i watched a few years ago of a guy using 22lr casings to make 5.56 fmj bullets, he did it differently and i think put them through a swaging die
I would love to see a gel, water jug test with these. Just a wild concept. Reminds me of a conversation I had with someone years ago about using 22LR and making their own .224 bullets.
You have some good skills and ideas, maybe consider building some tooling. You can start with a ball end mill and create your shap by regrinding the flutes and re edging them. It's doable. I was a journeyman machinist, i used to build bullet molds grinding all my own tooling. You young man are very talented in the adapt, improvise and over come department. Very well done.
One day I hope to make my own bullet molds. Not for this, for typical cast bullets.
For turning brass (like when you removed the rims), get yourself a bit of HSS and just grind relief angles on the front and side. The tool should have a totally flat top (zero rake).
This will avoid having issues with the tool 'grabbing' and pulling in to the work. With such a tool I think with your lathe you should be able to take the whole rim off with one pass (no need to adjust the handwheel multiple times.
You could trim the brass shorter to get coal to mag length. Getting the point forming die profile closer to a proper point with a smaller meplat would help too.
really cool and informative video. First time viewer, and I loved how informative and just interesting this was. Thank you!
Yes im really waiting for this epic satisfying making bullet from bullet video
I read one of the earlier posts and saw that somebody had mentioned the annealing so this was just adding to it. I believe if you wanted to go a step more you could anneal the whole case in an oven and that would soften the brass down a bit. Not positive but I believe that would work. 👍Good idea. Keep it going.
That people concerned about the toll on your rifling kinda surprised me. Even before you mentioned the historical precedent for solid brass and copper alloy bullets, I was aware that the process of filling the cases with molten lead would anneal them and with annealed brass against hardened steel it was evident who would win.
I was looking for .312 bullets yesterday for use in a .303 Enfield and a Mosin Nagant. I found 2 or 3 companies selling brass bullets that looked a lot like those in the video.
I want to try these in my mosins next
@@rakumprojects I hope to see the results. I pulled bullets from 7.62x54R ammo with corrosive primers, that I purchased very cheap after finding a craigslist ad. 440 rnds for 150 president pictures. I was planning to use them in my No4 Mk1's.
Then a few weeks later, I traded 400 president pictures for a Mosin. My biggest concern was the barrel may be shot out, rusted and or pitted from corrosive ammo etc. But after cleaning the barrel with Ballistol, the bore looks good so far. The store I found the Mosin at has offered to use a Teslong bore camera to check it. Now I have to find some reloadable cases and reloading dies for the Mosin.
Don't worry about using empty cases for jackets people have been doing it for years. Remington has brass jacketed bullets called golden sabers. People have made 224 bullets out of 22 long rifle cases etc
i've seen people reloading .223 with bullets with jackets out of 5.6LR casings. It's a bit cumbersome but works for shooting-da-cans, if you bother reloading at all. Fly a better than .223 pure lead, comparable with bullets casted of harder lead alloys which may be pricey \ troublesome to compose right in diy environment, so it's somewhat worth it.
All good except for one fairly important detail. One should anneal the brass cases directly after the cleaning process to ensure they are as soft as possible. Other than that he should be good to go. His process will get better with the more he makes. I have done some 22 rim fire into 5.56 and found that being extra clean and annealing helps the most. I’m using thin wall copper tubing for the few that I make for 30 through 8mm calibers. It’s a tedious process but can have some good results.
I anneal and swage .22LR cases into .223 bullets. After annealing the brass is ridiculously soft -- have to be careful not to squash them soft. The melting point of lead is only about 60-80 lower than the full annealing temperature of brass (varies due to composition). I would assume that the brass here is considerably softer than when it starts due to being filled with molten lead.
I haven't seen any barrel life issues other than I was able to keep shooting during the last bullet drought.
You could make a top feed cartridge holder that is also a lead mold, you pour from the top and it leaves behind a lead spitzer style point, then from there you can score the lead, drill a small core, and have a jacketed hollow point, with better B.C. and energy retention than the wadcutter tips.
another to add to the list, i love seeing what brass can be used to make jacketed bullets. i use 40 S&W and 357 SIG brass for jacketed bullets in my 44 mag
I enjoy watching your craftsmanship! Keep up with the interesting videos!
"Brass will wear out your barrel faster than a copper jacket!"
Oh no. Someone might want to tell Cheytac, and all the other hyper-long range ammo manufacturers making solid brass bullets.
OMG I've had this idea for a long time and u popped up...I instantly subscribed!!!!!!!!!!
That is pretty fun! My brother makes a lot of his own dies for rifles that are out of style and you can't find production stuff for. It would be fun to see how these do on some gel and maybe a deer or two lol.
Thank you for the video!
That's what I call once fired brass!
I would not be concerned about wearing the rifling out. but, you should use a solvent to remove the polymer coating from your rifle barrel. it WILL accumulate, causing higher pressures, and effect the accuracy. I do this (clean out the plastic residue) to my shotgun (plastic shot cups) and muzzle loading rifle (using plastic sabered projectles) after a long day shooting. It would actually be better to remove the polymer coating prior to tumbling. most polymers will dissolve with acetone. Which has worked for me. but I have come across some polymers that the only thing that I had to dissolve it was M.E.K. (Methyl Ethyl Ketone), THAT, is NASTY stuff!!! use it ONLY out of doors, with a fan blowing the fumes away from you at a 90 degree (at a right angle) to you, and wear chemical PROOF gloves. And MAKE CERTAIN that there is NO IGNITION SOURCE! M.E.K is both highly toxic, ESPECIALLY IF INHALED!, and very flammable. they do make a M.E.K. substitute, but I have never used it, so I do not know much about it. You are correct, this is a neat proof of concept experiment. BE CAREFUL, and good luck!
I did try acetone which didn't remove the coating. After this video I got a wet tumbler and using that with steel pins did the job.
I had a pair of old swage dies that set untouched for a couple years and finally I got around to making some bullets using 5.7 cases, I annealed them with a torch and sized the jacket first to .306 and using RCBS bullet pulling collet mounted in a piece of aluminum plate. I used that to trim the cases down with a milling machine to make 125gr bullets for my 300 HAM'R. They were a bit tapered so I sized the bullet down to .3065", I really didn't expect much but I shot a 5 shot 0.77" group at 50 yards, that's 1.47 MOA. Velocity was 2400fps It was much better than what I expected! I didn't remove the rim, the gap was pretty much gone / compressed during point-forming.
I'm not familiar with that caliber, is .306 the bore size?
@@rakumprojectsNo, the bore is standard .308 size. 300 HAM'R is like 300 blackout but longer case and focuses only on supersonic rounds, it also has slower 1:15 and 1:13 barrel twist. This works much more accurately with cast bullets and copper plated bullets. Next step I'll test it in my Win .308 when the weather becomes better. I can make the bullets heavier too as well as commercial jackets to compare with. So the reason I sized it to .306 (it actually came out .307) was to create a more straight shank so the bullet would be seated straight and even though its undersized, if you look at SAAMI specs the range of acceptable bullet was from .306 - .309. So I figured a bit undersized bullet might lose some velocity but it turns out the velocity was about the same. I also shot another group with 1/2 grain more powder and I got 2450fps but the group opened up to about 2 MOA with vertical stringing so I don't know if the gun needed cooldown or something else. Also, I am going to try nex to shoot them as is without sizing.
From what I've seen in your video I would recommend a few things. 1. is that you anneal the case with a torch till it glows red, just put on a nail and heat it with a torch. You could also dip or drop it in a lead pot and keep it there for 10 seconds or so. These cases are thick so you don't have to worry about over annealing. 2. Vibratory tumbler doesn't really do a good job of removing soot and scale after annealing. I use wet tumbler and stainless steel pins loaded with citric acid (Lemishine) and some dish soap or Woolite (a must for lanolin based lubes). Also in my case if I wanted a heavier bullet I would machine an expander to expand the neck. I do that with 17 HMR cases and make them into 6.5mm bullets, works great.
@@DimaProkThanks for the info! I'll try annealing the whole case next time. And shorty after I filmed the video I bought a wet tumbler. I've been impressed with it so far. Will probably get rid of my vibratory tumbler.
The people who thought this was fake are hilarious. I love when people are confidently wrong, without understanding even some of the most basics of swaging.
That’s pretty cool. Thanks for showing it.
I think I've seen someone making .223 bullets with .22lr brass.
Really like this and other creative videos. Helps you to have ideas thinking outside the box!
When I swage I anneal the brass first. This would also take care of the plastic coating. An easy way to do it is to put them in your Lee melting pot without any lead in it. Put some aluminum foil over the top and crank it up. When they are all glowing red they are done. They will be as soft as any common copper jacketed hollow point. A wet wash with steel media will shine them back up again. If you really want better accuracy you'll need to press in a lead core instead of casting into the case. The best way is to swage a core with a squirt die, but I've done it with just pressing in a few pure lead cast bullets using a shop press.
Have used .223 brass to make .375" bullets and sized .250 Savage brass to make .458's along with using .303 brass sans rims (.457" base dia.) to make .458" bullets.
Others I know have used .40 S&W and 100 Auto to make .429"/.430" bullets for the .44 Rem. Mag. revolvers and rifles. some require sizing. All but the pistol cases need
trimming and forming. I annealed the brass to soften it to get reliable expansion. Pure lead for soft points, hard lead alloys for FMJ-type bullets.
honestly this is a genius way to make soft point rounds on a budget, next maybe try some .22 LR cases filled with lead and loaded backwards, or something like a .25ACP case could be interesting
Portal was such a good game
So, the reason the driving bands are cut in copper solids and brass solids is because without them there is increased fouling. As solids don't *Squish* as well as lead or jacketed bullets The bands give a place to relive pressure or fouling to deposit verses getting shoved into the barrel.
Even with the long bearing length of those projectiles the soft lead cores will allow it to swage easier in the barrel meaning you shouldn't see any ill effects of it.
Your barrel life will have no meaningful difference,
*Somewhat Off topic rant The biggest thing people need to get around is it's no so much the material, It's the hardness of the material. Steel, copper, brass can all be mixed, annealed, and hardened to a to varying degrees. There's a video out there showing that even some steel case ammo is softer than some brands of brass. Even SIG has used boxer primed copper washed 9mm steel case and no one notices any difference except for some reloaders who refuse to reload it (Google it there are quite a few thread of people making a big deal about it). Showing most of it is a placebo. People bring up OH steel case 9mm is nasty because it doesn't seal. No it's nasty because of the powder. Like my favorite 9mm reload uses titegroup and it is hot and nasty a single load on virgin brass will discolor it and leave a good amount of gunk in the gun however, I can and have, work up the same bullet and virgin brass with N320 and it comes out looking almost new. The same soft steel or even softer is used in the projectiles that are copper washed (Or zinc washed) sometimes, will show the same characteristics as copper jacketed or plated enough to the point there's no noticeable difference in barrel life. Rant over*
Outside of the bearing surface, the swaging difference also is a reason why you can't use the same data for copper/brass solids. To the point that even if you compare both weight and similar bearing length of the copper solids to jacketed printed data will be a decent way off to what would be expected.
Your brass jacketed pure lead core (Soft) will be fine.
(Someone who reloads copper solids for hunting ammo 500mag, 300win)
Great video...don't worry about barrel wear, it will be just about nothing if any at all. The steel in the rifle barrel is much harder than the brass, no worries. keep on doing experiments. It's very interesting, thank you.
Another comment suggested bullet lube (Moly or BN). I would also consider annealing the brass. Not sure the molten lead is warm enough to do that. 303 bullets can be difficult to find! I have bought known, "crap" ammo (Berdan + cordite + "really old") just to pull the bullets.
I use lanolin grease and isopropyl as case lube in about a 7 to 1 ratio, you can dump all the cases in a ziplock back, dribble in a little and shake them around. it works as well as the RCBS wax but you can apply it in bulk.
If you want to remove the polymer coating more thoroughly, wet-tumble the cases with stainless steel pins. I use a Harbor Freight rock tumbler with my setup.
FANTASTIC!!!! It’d be awesome to see recovered ones 🎉
Polymer, brass, or aluminum tip. 3d print, and/or cast using a small foundry. Probably feed better. Mag lips can be filed or adjusted for beter feeding. Nice job.
Really impressed and enjoyed this alot. Nice to see good minds coming together to make something better. I hope this is indicative of your followers and content. Subscription added.
Japanese in WW2 had trouble sourcing metals for their bullets and would use whatever they could get a hold of. All lead, all copper, tin, brass you name it.