One of the major problems with modern comics is the constant reboots and retcons. It didn't used to be this bad and story arcs used to actually carry over prior to 2010. But nowadays, it feels like there's a reboot every 2 to 3 years and writers have little to no knowledge of the character they are writing about. It also doesn't help that they've tried to make really dumb changes to legacy characters like Hal Jordan and attempt to undermine his accomplishments to show how he hasn't grown. This was especially true during the Green Lanterns run where they tried to turn his achievements into failures. They basically get 1 story arc, maybe 2, and then there's another reboot/retcon and you're starting over again. While comics do always return to the status quo, it doesn't mean that you can't give characters minor development and growth. The problem is when they strip it away so soon. Green Lantern's Rebirth to Blackest Night was a five year run, giving multiple story arcs and time for Hal Jordan to grow. Nowadays, it feels like the average story arc is 2 years, maybe 2 and a half at best
Thanks for watching. This is a great comment! I agree with you. It’s especially the worst when retcons happen for what seems like no reason at all. Also I know that no one wants to write a specific character forever, but it’s the worst to have a character get an amazing run and then get thrown into another immediately after that isn’t even half as good. Somehow, I still haven’t read Blackest Night. I’ve heard nothing but good things.
@@MixedUpMedia21 Blackest Night is great because they were able to expand on the entire Green Lantern mythos and essentially laid the foundation for the modern Green Lanterns. The retcons they did are used even now, almost 20 yrs later. The two major downsides to the events are that it relegated a lot of important things to spin offs that weren't even included in the trade paperbacks and that it was followed by the terrible Brightest Day storyline. I don't even mind if the next story isn't half as good. The issue I had was that they retconned the achievements. Hal Jordan for example, turned from the "Greatest Green Lantern" during the War of the Green Lanterns and even using other colored rings because the green rings were unusable at the time to become someone who was obsessed with the powers of the Green Lantern the moment Sinestro became a Green Lantern again in the next story arc
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz Ahh, I see. Yeah that is a serious backtrack. That definitely is the type of development that’s disappointing to see be taken away so fast. Your description of the run has me interested to see this for myself. I’ve been meaning to read up on the Green Lanterns but it seems like Rebirth is the place to start. Thanks for engaging with the video like this. If you have anymore recommendations, feel free to add them. Look forward to seeing your input in later videos!
@@MixedUpMedia21 Most of my favorite comics would be classified as "Elseworlds" stories that take place in alternate continuities not within the main Marvel or DC universe. It is these stories that give us more in depth development of characters that we don't see in the main Marvel or DC line of comics. My favorite DC storyline is of course Green Lantern Rebirth through War of the Green Lanterns. I tolerated a little of what happened after, but it just kept getting worse and I basically stopped after the Lights Out retcon. I occasionally take a glance at it at the comic book store, but no storyline of theirs has been enough to draw me back in. My favorite Marvel storyline is Planet Hulk and World War Hulk. House of M is a close second. But Amadaeus Cho and the Red Hulk was just awful. Then Avengers vs. X-Men began the downfall of pretty much all of X-Men for me. Other notables include The Dark Knight Returns, Ultimate Spider-man (I liked the run until he was replaced with Miles), Judas Contract, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, and For the Man Who Has Everything. Days of Future Past, Dark Phoenix, Old Man Logan, Injustice, Dark Knights Metal are tolerable for me due to interesting concepts, but I feel they're too dark for the general comic book audience.
@@MixedUpMedia21 blackest night isn't nearly as good, sadly without reading a ton of other material leading up to it. I was lucky to have been reading it monthly at the time so buying all of Sinestro Core War and Green Lantern Corps books wasn't so expensive over the span of 2 years.
This perfectly describes what makes manga work and comics fail. Comics to people new to the medium are just too intimidating because of the fact that there are so many titles out and have existed for a long time which brings the problems of different writers and artists constantly changing the look and story of said comics while manga is usual the same creator behind it or at least the same team. Even long running manga like One piece will have a clear beginning and end and it’s an overall easy read.Regarding comics different writers and artists may not always be a bad thing, just look at Frank Miller with Batman and Daredevil. But then you got your Kelly sue Deconnick😬. Overall great video man👍
Honestly, the amount of comics is the reason I got into it, because it feels like I won’t run out of my favorite characters but I’m glad you can enjoy manga
One of the main reasons I never got into comics when I was younger, and even today, was because of the constant volume of novels with the same characters, just a different design. I had no one to navigate me through that mess. I have only every heard/watched some the storylines such as Flashpoint and the one where all the justice league characters become gods (can't remmember the name). For me I like the fact that a story has a beggining, middle and end. The Comics seems to go through this weird thing called a 'status quo'. No progression was made by the MC, it just reverts to how they were from the beggining of the story only a little wiser... maybe. What I like in manga that usually can't be found in comics, specifically DC, is the accumulation of power as the story goes through. For example the 'black spider-suit'. In comics you would have a few issues with this suit on, showcasing it's clearly more powerful than his regular 'spandex' version. There's something wrong and the suit HAS to go away in order to take spider-man back to hi status quo of being the neighbourhood spider-man wearing the good ole red white and blue because...I don't know. Whilst in an anime/manga the problem would be circumvented/solved whilst allowing or even finding power beyond the suit in order to increase the power of the MC. Clear, steady progression works wonders on the attention span of readers. Another example I like to look at is to see how heroes have progressed by the end/where they are currently in the comic to where they were in the beggining. Tbh when I read some comic book novels, it still the same characters. Crap I took a look at a new superman comic the other day, and one of the panels was literally him standing with a bunch of Gen Z mobs, with a picket sign saying 'Save the Earth' or something. My god, they live in a universe where Gods are real, Magic is real, weapons capable of annahilating not only the Earth but the mutliverse aswell, and that is what's Superman is doing with his time... Going on strike instead of, I don't know, perhaps asking one of the many geniuses in that universe to create something to save the Earth. And don't tell me it's unrealistic... If I have to explain then... Anyways went off on a tangent. Bottom line, Manga, good, they keep to themselves, has a structured beggining, middle and end point. No reboots/remakes, and even then it's usually only done after the anime was from like 20 years ago. Comics, way too many remakes, constant undermining of past heroe's deeds. Leaves no sense of progression. Thank you for reading
Thanks for expressing your thoughts! You definitely make some great points. There was another commenter here that said most of their favorite comic book storylines take place in alternate universe (mine too tbh). They are disconnected from the main universe, but use familiar characters. Seeing the number of volumes for characters that have been releasing since the 60s can be really daunting. Fortunately, there are you don’t HAVE to read everything, but sometimes it can feel that way.
I grew up more with Japanese animes and Chinese Martial Art stories than American franchise, and I want to say one great and unique thing about American superheroes and that is what you described as the drawbacks. In nearly all fictional universe, it is better to have a beginning, ending, middle with consistent characterizations. But in American superheroes, the characters are more frameworks that any author can develop and I loved the differing characterizations of those same characters. I'm talking DC here, never read Marvel. Alan Moore, Frank Millar, Grant Morrison, Bruce Timm all wrote very different Jokers, yet they are all alike. I never looked to these superheroes as role models, (in the real world, the heroes risking their own real lives) and their lack of risk of dying create vastly different possibility on how the character developed. In other word, if the hero can't died, how would you make the danger real? How would you made Batman able to defeat a bunch a gods without looking like a Mary Sue? These possibilities are greatly developed by great writers and destroyed by bad ones. Read it for its strong points rather the weak parts, and it is quite a unique choose-your-own adventure experience. With Manga, the endings are usually its worst parts because the writers can't do many revisions of its endings. With comic books, it is never-ending, so the writers spent more time polishing the arcs they are writing at hand. With great writers like Moore or Morrison, it was superb. With lesser ones, it was meh.
Originally Spider-Man's Black costume was supposed to be permanent (since it was back when that feasibly could happen in the minds of the creators), but they changed him back after fan complaints came in & they ended up creating Venom in a sort of response to other fans complaining about them getting rid of the black costume. This kerfuffle even included a period of time where Spider-Man wore a completely mundane cloth version of the black suit. At least that's what happened if I was informed correctly anyways.
@@MixedUpMedia21 lol, I feel ya. Admittedly I haven't gotten to the end of the manga. I started revisiting the anime (skipping fillers) and I'm at Hueco Mundo right now (Chad just got one-shotted by Nnoitra). I will say that even though I love the series, my main criticism is that it's repetitive. After a while the series just becomes fight after fight after fight. Also the Hueco Mundo arc is just the Soul Society arc except this time they're saving Orihime instead of Rukia.
The problem is that people often focus on Manga vs Comics, when it's actually a question of Asian Culture vs American Culture. KPop is outselling American Pop music, Parasite won best picture at the Oscars, Doramas are being more watched than ever, the most watched show on netflix history is Round 6, Chinese cinema became one of the most important things in the industry these days. It's a cultural shift in the world, from the US to Asia, it's time people accept it.
Solid points, especially the adaptations one. I think it says a lot that at a time where Marvel's films are utterly dominating cinema very few of those box office numbers are translating into reading figures. For what it's worth we've been getting some really great adaptations lately like Sandman, Heartstoppers and Umbrella Academy that do a much better job of making a viewer want to actually dive into the source material. I think Invincible is currently the gold standard for solid adaptations.
One aspect of the American Comic book industry is in the position it’s in now is because speculators. The western comic book industry caters to them the most with variety covers and how they choose to write their stories.
Definitely. One thing that’s easy to notice in Marvel is how they bring certain characters back to the forefront if they have or are making an appearance in the MCU.
I think it comes down to convoluted continuity, a lack of any singular vision, and a constant return to the status quo. It's like the difference between soap operas with five spinoffs and a single show with five seasons. There's just too much stuff and it never seems to be going anywhere.
I want to push back against something you said. It's not actually easier to draw more cartoony characters. The most noticeable difference for viewers at a glance are proportions and shading that indicate realism. Most of the time manga artist rely on assistant to keep up their quality on the that time crunch so they can get the detail the like I mean you showed horikoshi and Mirata those guys are detail probably equally so to Kenneth rockafort. The big difference in time are the colour which is a whole art form in itself and backgrounds. Which you covered, manga artist tend to create one really good establishing shot to keep the audience aware of scene geography which is all you need plus topically manga is slower paced. Which makes it less wordy. But honestly great video
I feel like maybe there's a bit of miscommunication somewhere. While there are a lot of western artists that make a level of detail matching any manga, overall it seems that the standard for wetsern comics is usually an objectively less detailed artstyle than the standard for manga. While theres some amazing and awful art in both, the standards have always been lower for western comics. At least in my experience (born in 94 for reference)
@@charmygreen665 idk but I do feel like we as audience let us western comic book artist get away with different stuff then manga artist. Honestly it's just so hard to make a broad statement at quality cus a lot of it's down to trends, cultural history and artist working around the expectations of the business. Lol it's funny how complicated this conversation can get
The real issue is the distribution model of comics was damaged after the speculation boom burst in 96. Access to comics have been on the decline since, in the 90s comics used to sell millions of copies. Comics used to be distributed with wider Access, grocery stores, corner stores, newsstands and comic book stores all sold comics. Superheroes are the most viable pop culture commodity even more than anime, Superhero films make several times more money than any anime film released in theaters. Comic books are not valued as much as the Superheroes that appear in them and the declining sales of comics reflects this. This is a bit more complicated than it seems
also japan has a higher culture of shops selling manga in little stores located at train stations. you wouldn't be reading things while staring at the road, but since public transport is such a big thing over there, you might be tempted to pick up a volume and read while on your commute...the low cost also helps
I think one of the main issues is that mainstream comics is essentially Marvel and DC and that limits its appeal to people interested in superhero stories. Layered on top is the issue of the reboots and the idea that the stories are never ending. These are some of the most common explanations I have found on why people prefer manga Mainstream Manga has a lot more broad appeal. It’s more diverse in subject matter and they all have a definitive start and end. You touched on the fact that a lot of indie comics address these issues, and they do. I am willing to bet that 90% of people with the issues listed above can find a comic that they will fall in love with. In fact, they aren’t even that hard to find. So long as you live in a major city, you can probably find them at your local comic book shop. The problem is that you essentially have to already be a comic book reader to even know they exist in the first place. Most people can’t name any other publisher other than Marvel and DC and that’s what’s is contributing most to the reputation of comics as being inaccessible.
If Bleach and Fairy Tail are examples of wack manga, manga are extremely good. Bleach is genuinly my favorite series in design, paneling, movement, characters, poetic, themes, etc.
Invincible is the closest we've gotten to an anime style adaptation of a comic book: the comic book had a run, and then a studio adapted that content into a 2D show in the same art style. Just like an anime. Anime adaptations are about mostly animating their damn source material. American projects will just USE an IP. Not literally translate a story like anime. Justice League, Teen Titans, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avenger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes. All of those shows just let the showrunners take existing characters and settings and write up their own oc content that wasn't a direct adaptation of the source material. If you watch Attack on Titan, you get Attack on Titan, not someone's offshoot or interpretive spin-off. Same with FMA:B, SpyXFamily, Baccano!, Demon Slayer, etc
There are some minor stuff that usually pisses me off in some american comics that mangas just don't have (I think people are already talking about the obvious big problems, so I'll talk about the small ones): 1- tiny text. It is not because I don't use glasses that I like to read tiny text. I am usually alone while reading, I can't prove my vision superiority over people nearby by forcing myself to read uncomfortably tiny text in the longrun. 2- one panel with a lot of ballons. Font size is usually small to cramble a lot of speech ballons in just one big gorgeous panel. One big panel with a lot of detail, to show how good the art is. But a LOT of text balloons in just one panel doesn't feel like reading a comic... speech balloons and a lot of text are telling me that some stuff is happening in sequence BUT THE ART IS STATIONARY, I am not seeing what is happening because the image froze, like a DVD that freezes an image by a bug but the audio keeps going on. This totally kills the pacing for me. Just do more panels to accomodate all of those speech balloons... make art with less detail if possible to draw more panels in time, I prefer that way. 3- Highlighted text. Ok, this one is a personal preference... but why highlighted text in a speech balloon?? Is the character yelling that one word? This is supposed to be someone speaking, not writting an essay. Making the font bigger in just that time works better for yelling. Anything in the speech balloon I interpret as a speech-only-phenomenom... that highlight is there as a writting only phenomenom, this is there to the readers and not to the characters that are the ones destined to "hear" what was "spoken" in the speech baloons. This takes me off of the "comic mindset" constantly. I compare this to a movie that keeps remind me that this is just a movie, is not real, do not try this at home because this movie is just a "make-believe".
The pool of creative talents Manga as an industry can tap into is way bigger than what the US comic book industry has. One needs to understand the titles published abroad are just a fraction of what's sold and consumed in Japan.
This was great, thank you for making a video on this that doesn't blame silly things that I wouldn't even mention here. Manga and comic book sales numbers have a lot more to do with their modes of production than most people realize.
Comics have the "problem" of using the same characters for ages, some of the most popular have like 80, 70 years of existence. Manga and anime does that too, but only with a few characters - Doraemon, Golgo 13, Detective Conan, Crayon Shin-chan have been running for ages. Manga also has a lot of room for diversity and experimentation. There is manga about everything: hamsters, baking, archery, girls golfing, kabbadi - and surprisingly enough those have several animated adaptations. Heck, one of the most stunning anime this season is about a girl who wants to wear sailor uniform in school. Also there is room for sexual themes or violence, which would be a no no on mainstream western comics. Western comics can also be diverse and tackle taboo, but mostly on obscure indie titles. Much is said about politics in comics, and I get that some people might be turned off by that, but manga also has politics, but in a different way - it is very nuanced and deals with japonese politics, which most western reader know nothing about, where comics' politics are "on your face" and deal with (mostly) western politics. Both use a multi-media platform: a comic is successful, it get several adaptations in movies, TV, animation, games, toys... Comics and manga are kind of similar, and at the same time very different. I think manga performs better because is a more flexible and better oiled machine - it is on every media, has something for everybody and is much more accessible.
This is a great comment, and I agree with pretty much everything you said. My only addition would be that there is something for everybody in the world of western comics as well, but like you said, the accessibility is lacking. I struggled with deciding to include this point in my video, because if I looked hard enough for a comic about hamsters or archery or anything else, I’m sure I’d find it.
The problem is over here EVERYTHING was lumped under one banner because of "The Comics Code" which for real still is affecting comics. There was horror, romance, comedy, mystery and superheroes comic in the golden age. Yet in the Silver Age they had to make it "kid friendly" that meant a lot of genre that Manga has was never really developed in comics. It was all lumped together which is why it doesn't work no because it really need to break away from the "coded" setup of comics. There needs to me more genres and age ranges. That's why manga shines and why some comics creators get pissed off when somebody clowns them. You put romance in an an action comic. Just do a romance comic if that's where you feel comfortable. Comics aren't structured for genre, when that's why they're fucking up. Manga I can find damn near anything because they allow so many experimental pieces. In comics an experiment has to be tied to something somebody else did due to now more than ever they don't trust new characters being truly new. There's always another Batman or Robin, another "Superman", Another Spider-Man, Here's another EARTH BASED Green Lantern.
As a casual comic book reader, the constant reboots are a pain in the ass. You have memorable moments that you think will be a permanent part of the character you like and then a reboot happens and nothing you cared about happened, it's all gone. That being said, reading stuff other than superheroes has led me to some great stories like Kill or be Killed and the Alien vs Predator comics. Also, I love manga but it has its fair share of issues as well. Primarily the constant use of highschool teenagers as main characters and the either awful/non-existant use of romance and sex in many of the high profile manga not to mention the sometimes ridiculous use of fanservice for female characters. I think both can be good and both can be bad but manga seems to be winning in sales since it's easier to consume.
As someone who reads more manga than comics just because manga tends to do the things I subjectively like more often, it's interesting to hear some sound objective reasoning for why manga's so much more popular now.
manga has many new character design and new stories. comic books are jus changing characters . in manga characters are usually portrait different from comics that as a reader you are not sure if he's antagonist, protagonist, hero or just someone w good intentions bc of different situations. it has twist. i recommend you to read these Manga bc it's jus soooo good u can't let go : chainsaw man Tokyo ghoul (don't watch anime and read until 143 after that is boring) jujutsu kaisen hell's paradise monster 💀 attack on Titan
And then when comics introduce new fresh characters they don’t sell well so they have to go back to old reliable,but at the same time seeing the same characters in new and fresh stories depending on the writer is so cool Batman has been around for over 80 years but you could still write a never before seen Batman story that innovates and improves the character
Great video bro, I liked your style of humor in certain contexts of the video, I agree with the idea you convey in the video, you just gained another subscriber
Just watched all of your videos. This being the last one. You are awesome dude. The reviews are cool, but the concepts of your commentary videos are crazy original and I’m loving it. Keep it up bro
i tried getting into comics. I was looking for stuff that has a continuous story and ends. couldn't really find anything. also I want non superhero stuff
There’s a lot of stuff out there. You just have to look, honestly. For my non-super hero comic fix every year, I just look for top ten lists. What genre are you looking for?
@@Yoko.Kurama maybe try Ice Cream Man, Something is Killing the Children, or Locke and Key. The first two are horror and Locke and Key is a much darker fantasy than the Netflix adaptation
Another thing that makes manga/anime superior IMO is that all of the things you mentioned have trickled down to how the fandoms organize themselves. For example, you could only read the manga or watch the anime or play the video-game, and you probably wouldn't have any major strikes against your fan credibility, because each one of those is THE thing. But you could be a big fan of Spider-Man comics, and there's a bigger fan of Spider-Man comics than you, but also a very real possibility that they haven't read the same comics as you. You can be a fan of Tobey MacGuire and Tom Holland but NOT at all like Andrew Garfield. You could play the video-games and experience stories that are arguably better then the movies starring the guys I just mentioned. Meanwhile, everyone who read the manga read the same manga, or watched the same anime, or played the same video-game. There's more lock-step with experiences and so the fandom feels a lot more cohesive. And that, too, attracts people.
The IP in manga ultimately belongs to the mangaka but IP in comics belong to the publisher. I think that's the fundamental difference between manga and comics that underpins everything that is different between the two industries.
There is also DC Zoom and DC Ink. They were made for creator owned stories. And were also made in the wake of DC You, Young Animal, and DC Vertigo alike. They are the independent comic book imprints. I want to see more optimistic characters like Dead Detective Boys, Blue Beetle, Challengers of the Unknown, Green Arrow, Gotham Academy, and many more. I know it may be off putting. But I disagree here. DC Black Label needs to stop being so grim and serious, tone down the extreme content, and lighten up a bit more. Make for all ages too. That would be my idea for DC Black Label stories. Try not to follow the path Marvel did the crossover event Ultimatum. We all know how it went. Dark and too gritty for the sake of being emotional and personal. The lack of awareness, humor, and too much graphic content. It had a lot of character fridging too. But made for shock value instead of emotional stakes. This is something DC should avoid and be careful. It better not end up in a disastrous failure like Ultimatum did.
Also it's alot harder to find unique original comics(non DC/marvel stuff) I can s much more easily find some singular dudes independent project with little corporate mingling in manga than say comics all the unique indie stuff in the west is basically quarantined to web comics and that stuff really hard to find/filter through
Manga has a lot of variety in genres and topics. Some American comic book publishers have a variety of genres, like Dark Horse and Image Comics, but it's still not as varied as manga. You can find a manga about virtually anything.
Comics can definitely still be fun. There's great stories and arcs but as many people said manga outsells and stays superior because of stupid and unnecessary reboots and modernizing what doesn't need to be done. Manga having one straight story makes it more enjoyable and investing. It's worthwhile and immersive. And while comics can easily be the same it can be complicated after 2 issues. Still recommend many comics tho, just not the modern shit.
You don't know how happy I am to see comic book fans talk about how manga outsells comics for reasons besides being "woke" There is so much more to comics and manga than left wing ideologies and people live in such bubbles that they think the idea of homosexuals are what's killing comics. It's pathetic and tiring and seeing people like you actually explain how shit works makes me so fucking happy. Thank you
If quality, easiness to start, and consistency are the biggest reasons for manga’s success then why weren’t Hellboy and Invincible selling like 5 million copies a year when they were out?
Hmm I can’t speak much on the time they were releasing, but I would say the evolution of the internet has drastically changed the way people find new comics and discuss them. There is a lot less stigma around nerd culture these days. Movies and shows that are adapted from comic books are just a normal part of everyday life. You can tweet and make memes about these things all day and be just fine as opposed to being shoved into a locker or something. I started seeing a lot more people talk about the Invincible comic series since the cartoon was released. Popular adaptations help boost sales and garner interest in new releases as well. Honestly, these things are the case for manga too. Manga also have one huge advantage over western comics, anime. This is the last point I made in the video. Most of the people I know that read manga, discovered it because of a show. The west doesn’t have a pipeline for comic books to receive 1:1 adaptations unfortunately. We tend to prefer live action and it takes years for somebody with enough money to “discover” a comic they think is worth adapting. These are just my thoughts
@@Bolbi145I appreciate the feedback. I feel like there’s a lot I left unsaid. I thought about even mentioning the development of weeb culture, but that could be an entire video, itself. I tried to mainly focus on big 2 comics, because indies are just as accessible as any regular manga is imo. Thanks for watching!
@@MixedUpMedia21 maybe talk about the benefits of multiple writers in your next video, like talk about “my real daddy syndrome” where superheroes are often perfected by another writer down the road
@@MixedUpMedia21 I just think we need more good cops in this debate full of people playing bad cop, you were kind of on the bad cop side in this video and I just think itd be cool if you played the devil’s advocate
@@nathanstultz3434 no problem, those are two manga I look forward to reading when the release. Choujin X is monthly and Dandadan releases every Monday. Hope you enjoy!
3:14 well yeah but i still like KHR (Katekyo hitman reborn!) Than MHA and sorry it's my taste of manga/anime gems And i also just started reading Bone by Jeff Smith and Scott pilgrim vs the world by Bryan Lee O'Malley the original non full colored comics one
Yeah,finally someone who understand what is really going on! But now how do we fix the problem? My idea was to have the DC\Marvel unverses have a proper ending every 5 years or so, and have an animated show to cover the best stories.
Hmm... 220 page manga for $9.99 vs. 80 page color comic for $17.99. ....Nah, manga being B&W isn't a disadvantage, guys. Two to Three times the content, half the price. ^^
The biggest problem for me is how much the big 2 or even the top 10 big publishers warp the comics market. Meanwhile the top 10 Japanese manga publishers don't have nearly as much marketshare and the impact of small publishers is much bigger. Lot of normies will only associate comics with super heroes genre and maybe mention Disney or stuff you read in newspapers in the past. Meanwhile in Japan, manga has a huge wide amount of genres represented at the top. Shonen action series and romcoms may be over-represented, but there are much more than that. Even normal office workers get their own genre to read. Also, distribution is also a monopoly. Before comics could be found almost everywhere. Now only comic geeks bother going to a comic shop which is usually a game store at the same time sharing other very niche hobbies like RPG, card games, WH, and board games. With the big corporations trying to push woke shit to a very specific target audience who don't care about this sorta stuff, it is just killing their premier titles while alienating loyal comic fans. I guess they can afford to do that because movies are just way more profitable to target general audience with while comics is just a side project for these mega corporations. They have old material they can still adapt into movies and series to burn through, so they don't need new quality material and can use comics as virtue signalling tools. They also try to milk fans with gimmicks from the 90s collector fever era instead of delivering meaningful content. I imagine manga is just cheaper to produce and they don't need to bother with that many middle men ass kissers in editors who plague comics. They just need to be careful with licensing and translating. The rest just sell itself.
I guess is more of a Marvel and DC problem. I've followed a few Image Comics, Boom comics and some indie companies and that problem is mostly non existent. (Unless is a popular character they own.) Stories never truly end but we most always chose a point in which we stop telling it.
I think the biggest issue with this is the issue with most things. In the west, mostly here in america, we have this mentality that truly prevents progression. Sadly everything from laws to media is effected. We live in a system that is virtually impossible to flourish in unless you follow the standard rules guidlines and expectations. They dont want to fix it, they would rather sink the whole ship then give up control.
One major aspect comics fail at compared to Manga is hype and suspense. I've been reading comics for a month now and not a single issue has got me excited for the next issue like the latest One Piece chapter 1072 did. Reading comics sometimes feels like a chore. They don't even try to properly hype up the characters and there rarely is a plot twist.
There are issues that will give you that feeling but it’s rare. With comics, you’re better off picking a writer to follow rather than a character most of the time. In my opinion at least.
@@MixedUpMedia21 Then there's also editorial meddling in comics. Remember Straczynski's run in Spider-Man? Sins Past and One More Day were basically made because Quesada mandated them.
I’ve had tabs open for the Spider-Man and Deadpool mangas open for about a month now, but just haven’t gotten around to them. I need to add the Batman one to my list though, I actually didn’t know that was a thing. Thanks for the recommendation!
Comics definitely have fewer interesting premises. I mean manga, really seizes your attention - I can count one hand the number of comic books that have had interesting premises paired with the kind of good opening that makes you want to read them, but for manga that list is more than quadruple all my fingers and toes put together. I feel like comics simply lean too hard into boring and overdone tropes, to the point that other overdone tropes from somewhere else (isekai and co) still manage to remain more interesting. American comics in general, even webcomics, really just come across as banal - it doesn't matter how predictable or not a story is, what matters is if the audience wants to see it play out or not. And I've started so many comics (with good reviews) that I really had zero interest in watching play out. I also feel like comics don't really know how to write in social issues properly - we either get some crazy attention seeking edgy nonsense or we get eggshell rainbow comics, feels like no well known american comics explore such themes in a way that matters. It's not like manga is free from overdone edge or even virtue signaling, but there's far more in-between space than in american comics by far. You'll actually get stuff that uses a shocking scene as a way to directly criticize something like rampant sexism or other such issues (in a meaningful way), or moral encouragement as an undertone rather than an overtone that drowns everything else out. Hell, I mean one piece touches on racism at many points - but in a way that rather than preaching to you the evil, simply shows you how intolerable the evil is. It's not perfect but it's definitely doing a better job. Authors that want to write in social themes should really take note of such styles, because it's a true shame that many admirable ideas and concepts are written and portrayed so poorly that it reflects badly on the source. I guess the tldr is that there's an unfortunate trend in comics of telling far more than showing, and the relatively text-light manga counterparts put more emphasis on showing even in the weaker stories. Often even in text heavy areas, they'll still be trying to show something beyond what the text explains.
Manga is more popular because the entire machine behind manga is designed to only provide material which is popular. IN Japan manga is part of a massive cross platform marketing system. Many stories come from the public via eNovel sites, if they are popular it goes to light novel, anima and then manga. When manga is created by professionals its only continued if its popular and is dropped when its not. The other key factor is when manga comes from another medium, such as Youjo Senki, its copied faithfully. The Japanese system is highly mechanical but once it finds something popular it has no interest in changing or re-imagining what works. The Japanese system takes stories from any source it can and as long as the stories are popular and then its repeated in every medium which can generate incremental revenue. The western system is based on people who feel they know better creating what they feel the audience should like, or re-imaging popular content into a manner which they feel the audience should like and if the audience does not like it, blame the audience. This is a top-down elitist system which does not have much chance competing against the bottom-up manga system. Only the indie comics can hold their own against manga, as well as the classics which I must admit are great. The original Watchman comic is fantastic and I did like Red Son.
Lol the reason read manga over western comics is because of the cost and size. I can fit manga in a jacket vs the usual western comic being so big for a smaller page count per volume.
The confusion us smh: There's literally like 3 batman events going on at one time, unlinked, and all end up with the joker being the bad guy behind it all lol
F**KING FINALLY!! I have waited so long for someone to point out the real problems with comic books instead of just saying "Wokeness killed comics and that's why manga succeeds".
@@mf9596 Yeah Chainsawman is better imo but to call Bleach whack is a reach when there are doesn’t of manga that get dropped by Shonen Jump and Kondansha on a daily…
this is refreshing to see. so often when people cover this topic its to push the "comics are too political" agenda and people come away with the impression that the reason comics are failing is due to stuff like I am not Starfire. A lot of why manga does so well seems really obvious to me and yet most people who cover this topic fail to acknowledge it.
Chainsaw man, Berserk and Uzumaki are what you like and Fairy Tail and Bleach are what you don't like? Im guessing you're more a fan of darker more edgy content. Perfectly fine. Personally I can't stand chainsawman and manga that have that "lol so random" vibe.
Nah, I’ve read them both and don’t usually watch reviewers on here. Taste is subjective. I just don’t like fairy tail. I love bleach, but think it isn’t that great. It happens🤷🏾♂️
@@MixedUpMedia21 yeah but saying bleach isn’t great is different than saying it’s “whack” and putting it in the same boat as FairyTail. Especially when with what happened with Kubo
another thing i found hilarious about that statistic is american companies tried to use it saying graphic novels are doing better in the west but they always (purposely) fail to mention 76% of it is manga😭😭 also bleach isnt that whack give it some love, fairytail is garbage tho thats a good take
@@akay_2 it's a reason why changing the race for the mainstream characters if it's not a big of deal ? They know they can't create and tries to virtue signaling stop defending them
@@akay_2 ok let me put it like this rather than making a black good or a new character they race swap and they hid behind the shield of diversity I am a minority but I don't want superman to look like me or any other existing character if they wanna represent my race they should create a new character to dive into our history and culture Dwayne McDuffie the creator of static shock (and the writers of my favourite show ben 10 alien force and justice league unlimited ) felt like there was a lack of black characters in comic back then (to be fair there was ) so he created the kata verse if he just race swap then that would have very simply robbed of us of very fun characters like static shock and icon (where is his show dc ) be like Dwayne McDuffie create a new character who can and shall be as lovable and enjoyable as any character that came before them Race swapping just makes people lazy and is already done by bad writers who don't like it
To be fair western animation can never pump out content like anime. Mangakas and japanese animation studios are notorious for overworking their staff. The work culture itself is vastly different.
SO glad to see someone have an actually evidence-based, logical argument on why manga sells more than American comic books, rather than just "comic books are political" ESPECIALLY since those arguments always seem to think American comic books aren't selling, which is proven false by the graphic in the beginning. Anime is made to sell manga, but movie adaptations of comic books do not (solely) intend to do the same (and manga/anime are not apolitical. the politics are just different and also go over those people's heads.)
One of the major problems with modern comics is the constant reboots and retcons. It didn't used to be this bad and story arcs used to actually carry over prior to 2010. But nowadays, it feels like there's a reboot every 2 to 3 years and writers have little to no knowledge of the character they are writing about. It also doesn't help that they've tried to make really dumb changes to legacy characters like Hal Jordan and attempt to undermine his accomplishments to show how he hasn't grown. This was especially true during the Green Lanterns run where they tried to turn his achievements into failures. They basically get 1 story arc, maybe 2, and then there's another reboot/retcon and you're starting over again.
While comics do always return to the status quo, it doesn't mean that you can't give characters minor development and growth. The problem is when they strip it away so soon. Green Lantern's Rebirth to Blackest Night was a five year run, giving multiple story arcs and time for Hal Jordan to grow. Nowadays, it feels like the average story arc is 2 years, maybe 2 and a half at best
Thanks for watching. This is a great comment!
I agree with you. It’s especially the worst when retcons happen for what seems like no reason at all.
Also I know that no one wants to write a specific character forever, but it’s the worst to have a character get an amazing run and then get thrown into another immediately after that isn’t even half as good.
Somehow, I still haven’t read Blackest Night. I’ve heard nothing but good things.
@@MixedUpMedia21 Blackest Night is great because they were able to expand on the entire Green Lantern mythos and essentially laid the foundation for the modern Green Lanterns. The retcons they did are used even now, almost 20 yrs later. The two major downsides to the events are that it relegated a lot of important things to spin offs that weren't even included in the trade paperbacks and that it was followed by the terrible Brightest Day storyline.
I don't even mind if the next story isn't half as good. The issue I had was that they retconned the achievements. Hal Jordan for example, turned from the "Greatest Green Lantern" during the War of the Green Lanterns and even using other colored rings because the green rings were unusable at the time to become someone who was obsessed with the powers of the Green Lantern the moment Sinestro became a Green Lantern again in the next story arc
@@ohnosmoarlulcatz Ahh, I see. Yeah that is a serious backtrack. That definitely is the type of development that’s disappointing to see be taken away so fast. Your description of the run has me interested to see this for myself. I’ve been meaning to read up on the Green Lanterns but it seems like Rebirth is the place to start.
Thanks for engaging with the video like this. If you have anymore recommendations, feel free to add them. Look forward to seeing your input in later videos!
@@MixedUpMedia21 Most of my favorite comics would be classified as "Elseworlds" stories that take place in alternate continuities not within the main Marvel or DC universe. It is these stories that give us more in depth development of characters that we don't see in the main Marvel or DC line of comics.
My favorite DC storyline is of course Green Lantern Rebirth through War of the Green Lanterns. I tolerated a little of what happened after, but it just kept getting worse and I basically stopped after the Lights Out retcon. I occasionally take a glance at it at the comic book store, but no storyline of theirs has been enough to draw me back in.
My favorite Marvel storyline is Planet Hulk and World War Hulk. House of M is a close second. But Amadaeus Cho and the Red Hulk was just awful. Then Avengers vs. X-Men began the downfall of pretty much all of X-Men for me.
Other notables include The Dark Knight Returns, Ultimate Spider-man (I liked the run until he was replaced with Miles), Judas Contract, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, and For the Man Who Has Everything.
Days of Future Past, Dark Phoenix, Old Man Logan, Injustice, Dark Knights Metal are tolerable for me due to interesting concepts, but I feel they're too dark for the general comic book audience.
@@MixedUpMedia21 blackest night isn't nearly as good, sadly without reading a ton of other material leading up to it. I was lucky to have been reading it monthly at the time so buying all of Sinestro Core War and Green Lantern Corps books wasn't so expensive over the span of 2 years.
This perfectly describes what makes manga work and comics fail. Comics to people new to the medium are just too intimidating because of the fact that there are so many titles out and have existed for a long time which brings the problems of different writers and artists constantly changing the look and story of said comics while manga is usual the same creator behind it or at least the same team. Even long running manga like One piece will have a clear beginning and end and it’s an overall easy read.Regarding comics different writers and artists may not always be a bad thing, just look at Frank Miller with Batman and Daredevil. But then you got your Kelly sue Deconnick😬. Overall great video man👍
Honestly, the amount of comics is the reason I got into it, because it feels like I won’t run out of my favorite characters but I’m glad you can enjoy manga
One of the main reasons I never got into comics when I was younger, and even today, was because of the constant volume of novels with the same characters, just a different design. I had no one to navigate me through that mess. I have only every heard/watched some the storylines such as Flashpoint and the one where all the justice league characters become gods (can't remmember the name). For me I like the fact that a story has a beggining, middle and end. The Comics seems to go through this weird thing called a 'status quo'. No progression was made by the MC, it just reverts to how they were from the beggining of the story only a little wiser... maybe.
What I like in manga that usually can't be found in comics, specifically DC, is the accumulation of power as the story goes through. For example the 'black spider-suit'. In comics you would have a few issues with this suit on, showcasing it's clearly more powerful than his regular 'spandex' version. There's something wrong and the suit HAS to go away in order to take spider-man back to hi status quo of being the neighbourhood spider-man wearing the good ole red white and blue because...I don't know. Whilst in an anime/manga the problem would be circumvented/solved whilst allowing or even finding power beyond the suit in order to increase the power of the MC. Clear, steady progression works wonders on the attention span of readers.
Another example I like to look at is to see how heroes have progressed by the end/where they are currently in the comic to where they were in the beggining. Tbh when I read some comic book novels, it still the same characters. Crap I took a look at a new superman comic the other day, and one of the panels was literally him standing with a bunch of Gen Z mobs, with a picket sign saying 'Save the Earth' or something. My god, they live in a universe where Gods are real, Magic is real, weapons capable of annahilating not only the Earth but the mutliverse aswell, and that is what's Superman is doing with his time... Going on strike instead of, I don't know, perhaps asking one of the many geniuses in that universe to create something to save the Earth. And don't tell me it's unrealistic... If I have to explain then...
Anyways went off on a tangent. Bottom line, Manga, good, they keep to themselves, has a structured beggining, middle and end point. No reboots/remakes, and even then it's usually only done after the anime was from like 20 years ago. Comics, way too many remakes, constant undermining of past heroe's deeds. Leaves no sense of progression.
Thank you for reading
Thanks for expressing your thoughts! You definitely make some great points. There was another commenter here that said most of their favorite comic book storylines take place in alternate universe (mine too tbh). They are disconnected from the main universe, but use familiar characters. Seeing the number of volumes for characters that have been releasing since the 60s can be really daunting. Fortunately, there are you don’t HAVE to read everything, but sometimes it can feel that way.
I grew up more with Japanese animes and Chinese Martial Art stories than American franchise, and I want to say one great and unique thing about American superheroes and that is what you described as the drawbacks. In nearly all fictional universe, it is better to have a beginning, ending, middle with consistent characterizations. But in American superheroes, the characters are more frameworks that any author can develop and I loved the differing characterizations of those same characters.
I'm talking DC here, never read Marvel. Alan Moore, Frank Millar, Grant Morrison, Bruce Timm all wrote very different Jokers, yet they are all alike. I never looked to these superheroes as role models, (in the real world, the heroes risking their own real lives) and their lack of risk of dying create vastly different possibility on how the character developed. In other word, if the hero can't died, how would you make the danger real? How would you made Batman able to defeat a bunch a gods without looking like a Mary Sue? These possibilities are greatly developed by great writers and destroyed by bad ones. Read it for its strong points rather the weak parts, and it is quite a unique choose-your-own adventure experience. With Manga, the endings are usually its worst parts because the writers can't do many revisions of its endings. With comic books, it is never-ending, so the writers spent more time polishing the arcs they are writing at hand. With great writers like Moore or Morrison, it was superb. With lesser ones, it was meh.
Originally Spider-Man's Black costume was supposed to be permanent (since it was back when that feasibly could happen in the minds of the creators), but they changed him back after fan complaints came in & they ended up creating Venom in a sort of response to other fans complaining about them getting rid of the black costume.
This kerfuffle even included a period of time where Spider-Man wore a completely mundane cloth version of the black suit.
At least that's what happened if I was informed correctly anyways.
That was just a cover😐
"Some Manga are wack" (shows Bleach)
Uhn uhn, me and you bout to fight.
Lmaooooo, the crazy thing is I love Bleach too, but the end of the manga had me sick bro. That was my salt resurfacing
@@MixedUpMedia21 lol, I feel ya. Admittedly I haven't gotten to the end of the manga. I started revisiting the anime (skipping fillers) and I'm at Hueco Mundo right now (Chad just got one-shotted by Nnoitra). I will say that even though I love the series, my main criticism is that it's repetitive. After a while the series just becomes fight after fight after fight. Also the Hueco Mundo arc is just the Soul Society arc except this time they're saving Orihime instead of Rukia.
That shit hurt to see lol 😭 Bleach is very flawed but there’s a lot to love man!
@@MixedUpMedia21 My mans Kubo was sick and was being rushed 😭💀
The problem is that people often focus on Manga vs Comics, when it's actually a question of Asian Culture vs American Culture. KPop is outselling American Pop music, Parasite won best picture at the Oscars, Doramas are being more watched than ever, the most watched show on netflix history is Round 6, Chinese cinema became one of the most important things in the industry these days. It's a cultural shift in the world, from the US to Asia, it's time people accept it.
Solid points, especially the adaptations one. I think it says a lot that at a time where Marvel's films are utterly dominating cinema very few of those box office numbers are translating into reading figures.
For what it's worth we've been getting some really great adaptations lately like Sandman, Heartstoppers and Umbrella Academy that do a much better job of making a viewer want to actually dive into the source material. I think Invincible is currently the gold standard for solid adaptations.
One aspect of the American Comic book industry is in the position it’s in now is because speculators. The western comic book industry caters to them the most with variety covers and how they choose to write their stories.
Definitely. One thing that’s easy to notice in Marvel is how they bring certain characters back to the forefront if they have or are making an appearance in the MCU.
I think it comes down to convoluted continuity, a lack of any singular vision, and a constant return to the status quo. It's like the difference between soap operas with five spinoffs and a single show with five seasons. There's just too much stuff and it never seems to be going anywhere.
I want to push back against something you said. It's not actually easier to draw more cartoony characters. The most noticeable difference for viewers at a glance are proportions and shading that indicate realism. Most of the time manga artist rely on assistant to keep up their quality on the that time crunch so they can get the detail the like I mean you showed horikoshi and Mirata those guys are detail probably equally so to Kenneth rockafort. The big difference in time are the colour which is a whole art form in itself and backgrounds. Which you covered, manga artist tend to create one really good establishing shot to keep the audience aware of scene geography which is all you need plus topically manga is slower paced. Which makes it less wordy.
But honestly great video
I feel like maybe there's a bit of miscommunication somewhere. While there are a lot of western artists that make a level of detail matching any manga, overall it seems that the standard for wetsern comics is usually an objectively less detailed artstyle than the standard for manga. While theres some amazing and awful art in both, the standards have always been lower for western comics. At least in my experience (born in 94 for reference)
@@charmygreen665 idk but I do feel like we as audience let us western comic book artist get away with different stuff then manga artist. Honestly it's just so hard to make a broad statement at quality cus a lot of it's down to trends, cultural history and artist working around the expectations of the business. Lol it's funny how complicated this conversation can get
The real issue is the distribution model of comics was damaged after the speculation boom burst in 96. Access to comics have been on the decline since, in the 90s comics used to sell millions of copies. Comics used to be distributed with wider Access, grocery stores, corner stores, newsstands and comic book stores all sold comics. Superheroes are the most viable pop culture commodity even more than anime, Superhero films make several times more money than any anime film released in theaters. Comic books are not valued as much as the Superheroes that appear in them and the declining sales of comics reflects this. This is a bit more complicated than it seems
also japan has a higher culture of shops selling manga in little stores located at train stations. you wouldn't be reading things while staring at the road, but since public transport is such a big thing over there, you might be tempted to pick up a volume and read while on your commute...the low cost also helps
I think one of the main issues is that mainstream comics is essentially Marvel and DC and that limits its appeal to people interested in superhero stories. Layered on top is the issue of the reboots and the idea that the stories are never ending. These are some of the most common explanations I have found on why people prefer manga
Mainstream Manga has a lot more broad appeal. It’s more diverse in subject matter and they all have a definitive start and end.
You touched on the fact that a lot of indie comics address these issues, and they do. I am willing to bet that 90% of people with the issues listed above can find a comic that they will fall in love with. In fact, they aren’t even that hard to find. So long as you live in a major city, you can probably find them at your local comic book shop. The problem is that you essentially have to already be a comic book reader to even know they exist in the first place. Most people can’t name any other publisher other than Marvel and DC and that’s what’s is contributing most to the reputation of comics as being inaccessible.
the choujinx cover tho
If Bleach and Fairy Tail are examples of wack manga, manga are extremely good. Bleach is genuinly my favorite series in design, paneling, movement, characters, poetic, themes, etc.
Invincible is the closest we've gotten to an anime style adaptation of a comic book: the comic book had a run, and then a studio adapted that content into a 2D show in the same art style. Just like an anime. Anime adaptations are about mostly animating their damn source material. American projects will just USE an IP. Not literally translate a story like anime.
Justice League, Teen Titans, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avenger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes. All of those shows just let the showrunners take existing characters and settings and write up their own oc content that wasn't a direct adaptation of the source material.
If you watch Attack on Titan, you get Attack on Titan, not someone's offshoot or interpretive spin-off. Same with FMA:B, SpyXFamily, Baccano!, Demon Slayer, etc
There are some minor stuff that usually pisses me off in some american comics that mangas just don't have (I think people are already talking about the obvious big problems, so I'll talk about the small ones):
1- tiny text.
It is not because I don't use glasses that I like to read tiny text. I am usually alone while reading, I can't prove my vision superiority over people nearby by forcing myself to read uncomfortably tiny text in the longrun.
2- one panel with a lot of ballons.
Font size is usually small to cramble a lot of speech ballons in just one big gorgeous panel. One big panel with a lot of detail, to show how good the art is.
But a LOT of text balloons in just one panel doesn't feel like reading a comic... speech balloons and a lot of text are telling me that some stuff is happening in sequence BUT THE ART IS STATIONARY, I am not seeing what is happening because the image froze, like a DVD that freezes an image by a bug but the audio keeps going on. This totally kills the pacing for me.
Just do more panels to accomodate all of those speech balloons... make art with less detail if possible to draw more panels in time, I prefer that way.
3- Highlighted text.
Ok, this one is a personal preference... but why highlighted text in a speech balloon?? Is the character yelling that one word? This is supposed to be someone speaking, not writting an essay.
Making the font bigger in just that time works better for yelling.
Anything in the speech balloon I interpret as a speech-only-phenomenom... that highlight is there as a writting only phenomenom, this is there to the readers and not to the characters that are the ones destined to "hear" what was "spoken" in the speech baloons. This takes me off of the "comic mindset" constantly.
I compare this to a movie that keeps remind me that this is just a movie, is not real, do not try this at home because this movie is just a "make-believe".
The pool of creative talents Manga as an industry can tap into is way bigger than what the US comic book industry has.
One needs to understand the titles published abroad are just a fraction of what's sold and consumed in Japan.
This was great, thank you for making a video on this that doesn't blame silly things that I wouldn't even mention here. Manga and comic book sales numbers have a lot more to do with their modes of production than most people realize.
Comics have the "problem" of using the same characters for ages, some of the most popular have like 80, 70 years of existence. Manga and anime does that too, but only with a few characters - Doraemon, Golgo 13, Detective Conan, Crayon Shin-chan have been running for ages.
Manga also has a lot of room for diversity and experimentation. There is manga about everything: hamsters, baking, archery, girls golfing, kabbadi - and surprisingly enough those have several animated adaptations. Heck, one of the most stunning anime this season is about a girl who wants to wear sailor uniform in school. Also there is room for sexual themes or violence, which would be a no no on mainstream western comics. Western comics can also be diverse and tackle taboo, but mostly on obscure indie titles.
Much is said about politics in comics, and I get that some people might be turned off by that, but manga also has politics, but in a different way - it is very nuanced and deals with japonese politics, which most western reader know nothing about, where comics' politics are "on your face" and deal with (mostly) western politics.
Both use a multi-media platform: a comic is successful, it get several adaptations in movies, TV, animation, games, toys...
Comics and manga are kind of similar, and at the same time very different. I think manga performs better because is a more flexible and better oiled machine - it is on every media, has something for everybody and is much more accessible.
This is a great comment, and I agree with pretty much everything you said. My only addition would be that there is something for everybody in the world of western comics as well, but like you said, the accessibility is lacking. I struggled with deciding to include this point in my video, because if I looked hard enough for a comic about hamsters or archery or anything else, I’m sure I’d find it.
The problem is over here EVERYTHING was lumped under one banner because of "The Comics Code" which for real still is affecting comics. There was horror, romance, comedy, mystery and superheroes comic in the golden age. Yet in the Silver Age they had to make it "kid friendly" that meant a lot of genre that Manga has was never really developed in comics. It was all lumped together which is why it doesn't work no because it really need to break away from the "coded" setup of comics. There needs to me more genres and age ranges. That's why manga shines and why some comics creators get pissed off when somebody clowns them. You put romance in an an action comic. Just do a romance comic if that's where you feel comfortable. Comics aren't structured for genre, when that's why they're fucking up.
Manga I can find damn near anything because they allow so many experimental pieces. In comics an experiment has to be tied to something somebody else did due to now more than ever they don't trust new characters being truly new. There's always another Batman or Robin, another "Superman", Another Spider-Man, Here's another EARTH BASED Green Lantern.
Sexual themes and violence are in comics like,very frequently,maybe sexual themes not as much as violence but it’s definitely
As a casual comic book reader, the constant reboots are a pain in the ass. You have memorable moments that you think will be a permanent part of the character you like and then a reboot happens and nothing you cared about happened, it's all gone.
That being said, reading stuff other than superheroes has led me to some great stories like Kill or be Killed and the Alien vs Predator comics. Also, I love manga but it has its fair share of issues as well. Primarily the constant use of highschool teenagers as main characters and the either awful/non-existant use of romance and sex in many of the high profile manga not to mention the sometimes ridiculous use of fanservice for female characters.
I think both can be good and both can be bad but manga seems to be winning in sales since it's easier to consume.
As someone who reads more manga than comics just because manga tends to do the things I subjectively like more often, it's interesting to hear some sound objective reasoning for why manga's so much more popular now.
great video. loved how you took a different approach to a topic that has been talked about before. looking forward to more of your videos.
Thanks for watching! I’ve got plenty of stuff on the way.
manga has many new character design and new stories. comic books are jus changing characters .
in manga characters are usually portrait different from comics that as a reader you are not sure if he's antagonist, protagonist, hero or just someone w good intentions bc of different situations. it has twist. i recommend you to read these Manga bc it's jus soooo good u can't let go :
chainsaw man
Tokyo ghoul (don't watch anime and read until 143 after that is boring)
jujutsu kaisen
hell's paradise
monster 💀
attack on Titan
And then when comics introduce new fresh characters they don’t sell well so they have to go back to old reliable,but at the same time seeing the same characters in new and fresh stories depending on the writer is so cool Batman has been around for over 80 years but you could still write a never before seen Batman story that innovates and improves the character
Your content is so great. I hope you do more general content like this! Also, fantastic use of that boondocks scene lol.
Great video bro, I liked your style of humor in certain contexts of the video, I agree with the idea you convey in the video, you just gained another subscriber
Because they're original and not filled with propaganda.
I don’t want to assume what you mean by propaganda, but you’d be surprised how political some of the most popular manga are. Not so subtly either
@@MixedUpMedia21 Western comics push a far left agenda. When manga has politics it's just to make a good story, there's no agenda behind it.
Just watched all of your videos. This being the last one. You are awesome dude. The reviews are cool, but the concepts of your commentary videos are crazy original and I’m loving it. Keep it up bro
Also. One punch man and chainsaw man are my fav manga’s right now
yeah, comics is like one big fanfiction pool with little tie in to other adaptations.
i tried getting into comics. I was looking for stuff that has a continuous story and ends. couldn't really find anything. also I want non superhero stuff
There’s a lot of stuff out there. You just have to look, honestly. For my non-super hero comic fix every year, I just look for top ten lists. What genre are you looking for?
@@MixedUpMedia21 thriller,dark fantasy,horror, mystery
@@Yoko.Kurama maybe try Ice Cream Man, Something is Killing the Children, or Locke and Key.
The first two are horror and Locke and Key is a much darker fantasy than the Netflix adaptation
@@MixedUpMedia21 thanks. I'll check out lock and key. I haven't seen the show
The Moon Knight comics are good, forget the TV show, one of the worst adaptations there is.
Heck, you could start with 2006 version
Another thing that makes manga/anime superior IMO is that all of the things you mentioned have trickled down to how the fandoms organize themselves. For example, you could only read the manga or watch the anime or play the video-game, and you probably wouldn't have any major strikes against your fan credibility, because each one of those is THE thing.
But you could be a big fan of Spider-Man comics, and there's a bigger fan of Spider-Man comics than you, but also a very real possibility that they haven't read the same comics as you. You can be a fan of Tobey MacGuire and Tom Holland but NOT at all like Andrew Garfield. You could play the video-games and experience stories that are arguably better then the movies starring the guys I just mentioned.
Meanwhile, everyone who read the manga read the same manga, or watched the same anime, or played the same video-game. There's more lock-step with experiences and so the fandom feels a lot more cohesive. And that, too, attracts people.
The IP in manga ultimately belongs to the mangaka but IP in comics belong to the publisher. I think that's the fundamental difference between manga and comics that underpins everything that is different between the two industries.
I loved the Choujin X thumbnail
really liked this vid cuz a lotthe things you bring up are things i think about as someone who reads both
There is also DC Zoom and DC Ink. They were made for creator owned stories. And were also made in the wake of DC You, Young Animal, and DC Vertigo alike. They are the independent comic book imprints. I want to see more optimistic characters like Dead Detective Boys, Blue Beetle, Challengers of the Unknown, Green Arrow, Gotham Academy, and many more. I know it may be off putting. But I disagree here. DC Black Label needs to stop being so grim and serious, tone down the extreme content, and lighten up a bit more. Make for all ages too. That would be my idea for DC Black Label stories. Try not to follow the path Marvel did the crossover event Ultimatum. We all know how it went. Dark and too gritty for the sake of being emotional and personal. The lack of awareness, humor, and too much graphic content. It had a lot of character fridging too. But made for shock value instead of emotional stakes. This is something DC should avoid and be careful. It better not end up in a disastrous failure like Ultimatum did.
Also it's alot harder to find unique original comics(non DC/marvel stuff)
I can s much more easily find some singular dudes independent project with little corporate mingling in manga than say comics all the unique indie stuff in the west is basically quarantined to web comics and that stuff really hard to find/filter through
Manga has a lot of variety in genres and topics.
Some American comic book publishers have a variety of genres, like Dark Horse and Image Comics, but it's still not as varied as manga. You can find a manga about virtually anything.
Comics can definitely still be fun. There's great stories and arcs but as many people said manga outsells and stays superior because of stupid and unnecessary reboots and modernizing what doesn't need to be done. Manga having one straight story makes it more enjoyable and investing. It's worthwhile and immersive. And while comics can easily be the same it can be complicated after 2 issues.
Still recommend many comics tho, just not the modern shit.
You don't know how happy I am to see comic book fans talk about how manga outsells comics for reasons besides being "woke"
There is so much more to comics and manga than left wing ideologies and people live in such bubbles that they think the idea of homosexuals are what's killing comics. It's pathetic and tiring and seeing people like you actually explain how shit works makes me so fucking happy. Thank you
And you don't know how happy it makes me to read this comment lol. Thanks for watching!
"PEOPLE'S DREAM HAVE NO END!" 🍻
one of the most impactful silent moment in anime
If quality, easiness to start, and consistency are the biggest reasons for manga’s success then why weren’t Hellboy and Invincible selling like 5 million copies a year when they were out?
Hmm I can’t speak much on the time they were releasing, but I would say the evolution of the internet has drastically changed the way people find new comics and discuss them. There is a lot less stigma around nerd culture these days. Movies and shows that are adapted from comic books are just a normal part of everyday life. You can tweet and make memes about these things all day and be just fine as opposed to being shoved into a locker or something.
I started seeing a lot more people talk about the Invincible comic series since the cartoon was released. Popular adaptations help boost sales and garner interest in new releases as well. Honestly, these things are the case for manga too.
Manga also have one huge advantage over western comics, anime. This is the last point I made in the video. Most of the people I know that read manga, discovered it because of a show. The west doesn’t have a pipeline for comic books to receive 1:1 adaptations unfortunately. We tend to prefer live action and it takes years for somebody with enough money to “discover” a comic they think is worth adapting. These are just my thoughts
@@MixedUpMedia21 ok, I think you could have also leaned into the history of censorship in the states, along with the monopoly, and stigma.
@@Bolbi145I appreciate the feedback. I feel like there’s a lot I left unsaid. I thought about even mentioning the development of weeb culture, but that could be an entire video, itself. I tried to mainly focus on big 2 comics, because indies are just as accessible as any regular manga is imo. Thanks for watching!
@@MixedUpMedia21 maybe talk about the benefits of multiple writers in your next video, like talk about “my real daddy syndrome” where superheroes are often perfected by another writer down the road
@@MixedUpMedia21 I just think we need more good cops in this debate full of people playing bad cop, you were kind of on the bad cop side in this video and I just think itd be cool if you played the devil’s advocate
Questions
What is the manga you put in the thumbnail.
What is the manga in the background at 3:45?
The manga in the thumbnail is Choujin X and the one at 3:45 is Dandadan
@@MixedUpMedia21 much appreciated
@@nathanstultz3434 no problem, those are two manga I look forward to reading when the release. Choujin X is monthly and Dandadan releases every Monday.
Hope you enjoy!
I just want to know, where is that tsukuyomi character from?
That would be Ranger Reject
Bleach is goated
Aye, you’re not wrong
man i want to get into manga whats the best place to start?
>chapter 1
the same cannot be said about 99% of comics
Exactly. Issue #1? WHICH issue #1?
This is the reason I liked Invencible, not only is adapted like a manga it has an ending.
3:14 well yeah but i still like KHR (Katekyo hitman reborn!) Than MHA and sorry it's my taste of manga/anime gems
And i also just started reading Bone by Jeff Smith and Scott pilgrim vs the world by Bryan Lee O'Malley the original non full colored comics one
Wow every point is spot on to me. Great video
Thanks for watching!
Yeah,finally someone who understand what is really going on!
But now how do we fix the problem? My idea was to have the DC\Marvel unverses have a proper ending every 5 years or so, and have an animated show to cover the best stories.
Hmm... 220 page manga for $9.99 vs. 80 page color comic for $17.99.
....Nah, manga being B&W isn't a disadvantage, guys. Two to Three times the content, half the price. ^^
The biggest problem for me is how much the big 2 or even the top 10 big publishers warp the comics market. Meanwhile the top 10 Japanese manga publishers don't have nearly as much marketshare and the impact of small publishers is much bigger.
Lot of normies will only associate comics with super heroes genre and maybe mention Disney or stuff you read in newspapers in the past. Meanwhile in Japan, manga has a huge wide amount of genres represented at the top. Shonen action series and romcoms may be over-represented, but there are much more than that. Even normal office workers get their own genre to read.
Also, distribution is also a monopoly. Before comics could be found almost everywhere. Now only comic geeks bother going to a comic shop which is usually a game store at the same time sharing other very niche hobbies like RPG, card games, WH, and board games. With the big corporations trying to push woke shit to a very specific target audience who don't care about this sorta stuff, it is just killing their premier titles while alienating loyal comic fans. I guess they can afford to do that because movies are just way more profitable to target general audience with while comics is just a side project for these mega corporations. They have old material they can still adapt into movies and series to burn through, so they don't need new quality material and can use comics as virtue signalling tools.
They also try to milk fans with gimmicks from the 90s collector fever era instead of delivering meaningful content.
I imagine manga is just cheaper to produce and they don't need to bother with that many middle men ass kissers in editors who plague comics. They just need to be careful with licensing and translating. The rest just sell itself.
I guess is more of a Marvel and DC problem. I've followed a few Image Comics, Boom comics and some indie companies and that problem is mostly non existent. (Unless is a popular character they own.) Stories never truly end but we most always chose a point in which we stop telling it.
What's the manga on the Thumbnail
Choujin X
giving choujin x some love! based.
I think the biggest issue with this is the issue with most things. In the west, mostly here in america, we have this mentality that truly prevents progression. Sadly everything from laws to media is effected. We live in a system that is virtually impossible to flourish in unless you follow the standard rules guidlines and expectations. They dont want to fix it, they would rather sink the whole ship then give up control.
One major aspect comics fail at compared to Manga is hype and suspense. I've been reading comics for a month now and not a single issue has got me excited for the next issue like the latest One Piece chapter 1072 did. Reading comics sometimes feels like a chore. They don't even try to properly hype up the characters and there rarely is a plot twist.
There are issues that will give you that feeling but it’s rare. With comics, you’re better off picking a writer to follow rather than a character most of the time. In my opinion at least.
@@MixedUpMedia21 Then there's also editorial meddling in comics. Remember Straczynski's run in Spider-Man? Sins Past and One More Day were basically made because Quesada mandated them.
Aye nah, put some respect on Bleach's name😤that slander ain't justified
Dam another bleach hater it’s so good like it slaps so hard it’s one of the best manga ever.
He put bleach on the same level as fairy tail.. nah the amount of disrespect is too high
It's quite easy to understand don't attack your audience and they will buy your product it's very simple...
Manga>>>Marvel Comics>DC Comics.
DC sells more than Marvel, also Scholastic sells more than both .
@@bensmith9984 are you sure about that? I see Marvel dominanted DC in Comics selling.
@@bensmith9984 Bone is one of my favorite comics to this day. Saw it at a book fair in 5th grade
Manga>>>DC Comics>Marvel comics
Fixed it for ya
@@afifislam490 DC sells more than Marvel by a longshot... 2 words: Superman & Batman.
Try reading the manga versions of batman and spiderman
I’ve had tabs open for the Spider-Man and Deadpool mangas open for about a month now, but just haven’t gotten around to them. I need to add the Batman one to my list though, I actually didn’t know that was a thing. Thanks for the recommendation!
You make alot of good points.
Comics definitely have fewer interesting premises. I mean manga, really seizes your attention - I can count one hand the number of comic books that have had interesting premises paired with the kind of good opening that makes you want to read them, but for manga that list is more than quadruple all my fingers and toes put together. I feel like comics simply lean too hard into boring and overdone tropes, to the point that other overdone tropes from somewhere else (isekai and co) still manage to remain more interesting. American comics in general, even webcomics, really just come across as banal - it doesn't matter how predictable or not a story is, what matters is if the audience wants to see it play out or not. And I've started so many comics (with good reviews) that I really had zero interest in watching play out. I also feel like comics don't really know how to write in social issues properly - we either get some crazy attention seeking edgy nonsense or we get eggshell rainbow comics, feels like no well known american comics explore such themes in a way that matters. It's not like manga is free from overdone edge or even virtue signaling, but there's far more in-between space than in american comics by far. You'll actually get stuff that uses a shocking scene as a way to directly criticize something like rampant sexism or other such issues (in a meaningful way), or moral encouragement as an undertone rather than an overtone that drowns everything else out. Hell, I mean one piece touches on racism at many points - but in a way that rather than preaching to you the evil, simply shows you how intolerable the evil is. It's not perfect but it's definitely doing a better job. Authors that want to write in social themes should really take note of such styles, because it's a true shame that many admirable ideas and concepts are written and portrayed so poorly that it reflects badly on the source.
I guess the tldr is that there's an unfortunate trend in comics of telling far more than showing, and the relatively text-light manga counterparts put more emphasis on showing even in the weaker stories. Often even in text heavy areas, they'll still be trying to show something beyond what the text explains.
Did this guy say bleach is a bad manga?
putting bleach on wack is crazy
Manga is more popular because the entire machine behind manga is designed to only provide material which is popular. IN Japan manga is part of a massive cross platform marketing system. Many stories come from the public via eNovel sites, if they are popular it goes to light novel, anima and then manga. When manga is created by professionals its only continued if its popular and is dropped when its not.
The other key factor is when manga comes from another medium, such as Youjo Senki, its copied faithfully. The Japanese system is highly mechanical but once it finds something popular it has no interest in changing or re-imagining what works. The Japanese system takes stories from any source it can and as long as the stories are popular and then its repeated in every medium which can generate incremental revenue.
The western system is based on people who feel they know better creating what they feel the audience should like, or re-imaging popular content into a manner which they feel the audience should like and if the audience does not like it, blame the audience. This is a top-down elitist system which does not have much chance competing against the bottom-up manga system. Only the indie comics can hold their own against manga, as well as the classics which I must admit are great. The original Watchman comic is fantastic and I did like Red Son.
The jab at Bleach is funny
Lol the reason read manga over western comics is because of the cost and size. I can fit manga in a jacket vs the usual western comic being so big for a smaller page count per volume.
The confusion us smh: There's literally like 3 batman events going on at one time, unlinked, and all end up with the joker being the bad guy behind it all lol
Did you ever tried to read Witch Watch's Teacher Chapters, the teacher just talking a novel every single page :D
F**KING FINALLY!! I have waited so long for someone to point out the real problems with comic books instead of just saying "Wokeness killed comics and that's why manga succeeds".
Breath of fresh air
Bleach bait is strong. Last 4 comments took it including me
Least he made up for it with DanDaDan
I know you didn't put chainsaw man as good and bleach as wack😅 😂
They have animes as advertisement
Slick hilarious (and true) that you put a picture of Bleach and Fairy Tail as examples of wack manga lol.
Did this man just say chainsawman was better than bleach? He smoking something different.
Chainsaw man > Bleach
(And yes, we smoking that bleach-had-a excellent-start-but-terrible-finish pack) 🚬
@@mf9596 Yeah Chainsawman is better imo but to call Bleach whack is a reach when there are doesn’t of manga that get dropped by Shonen Jump and Kondansha on a daily…
Not a good time to be shitting on bleach my guy. I wouldn't put it in the same spot as fairy tail, even with the ending.
this is refreshing to see.
so often when people cover this topic its to push the "comics are too political" agenda and people come away with the impression that the reason comics are failing is due to stuff like I am not Starfire. A lot of why manga does so well seems really obvious to me and yet most people who cover this topic fail to acknowledge it.
Well said
Great Video.
just for 0:37 i subbed
And Western comics shot themselves in the foot by putting their own political messages in it and tokenizing traditional classic super hero's
This man said Bleach was whack, instant sub.
We nnnnneeeeeddd more shows like invincible
Chainsaw man, Berserk and Uzumaki are what you like and Fairy Tail and Bleach are what you don't like? Im guessing you're more a fan of darker more edgy content. Perfectly fine. Personally I can't stand chainsawman and manga that have that "lol so random" vibe.
Bro said bleach was wack. Unforgivable.
bleach and fairy tail aren't bad
you've just been conditioned to hate them because there are popular youtube videos that shit on them
Nah, I’ve read them both and don’t usually watch reviewers on here. Taste is subjective. I just don’t like fairy tail. I love bleach, but think it isn’t that great. It happens🤷🏾♂️
@@MixedUpMedia21 yeah but saying bleach isn’t great is different than saying it’s “whack” and putting it in the same boat as FairyTail. Especially when with what happened with Kubo
Why the Bleach hate?
another thing i found hilarious about that statistic is american companies tried to use it saying graphic novels are doing better in the west but they always (purposely) fail to mention 76% of it is manga😭😭
also bleach isnt that whack give it some love, fairytail is garbage tho thats a good take
He not goona disrespect bleach like that
I'm guessing you don't like the Hunter X Hunter manga given how much dialogue there usually is.
calling Bleach whack is a sin
Anybody in here reading Hajime no ippo
They don't race swap their characters
That's not a real reason at all... It's about passion and creativity!
@@akay_2 it's a reason why changing the race for the mainstream characters if it's not a big of deal ? They know they can't create and tries to virtue signaling stop defending them
@@akay_2 ok let me put it like this rather than making a black good or a new character they race swap and they hid behind the shield of diversity I am a minority but I don't want superman to look like me or any other existing character if they wanna represent my race they should create a new character to dive into our history and culture Dwayne McDuffie the creator of static shock (and the writers of my favourite show ben 10 alien force and justice league unlimited ) felt like there was a lack of black characters in comic back then (to be fair there was ) so he created the kata verse if he just race swap then that would have very simply robbed of us of very fun characters like static shock and icon (where is his show dc ) be like Dwayne McDuffie create a new character who can and shall be as lovable and enjoyable as any character that came before them
Race swapping just makes people lazy and is already done by bad writers who don't like it
When you said "they're indie for a reason" talking about independent western comics, what did you mean, exactly?
To be fair western animation can never pump out content like anime. Mangakas and japanese animation studios are notorious for overworking their staff. The work culture itself is vastly different.
people complain about one piece being too long because it has over 1000 chapters, but the main spiderman had 700, just the main one.
Dope
everyone go read spiderman life story
SO glad to see someone have an actually evidence-based, logical argument on why manga sells more than American comic books, rather than just "comic books are political" ESPECIALLY since those arguments always seem to think American comic books aren't selling, which is proven false by the graphic in the beginning. Anime is made to sell manga, but movie adaptations of comic books do not (solely) intend to do the same (and manga/anime are not apolitical. the politics are just different and also go over those people's heads.)
You're calling Bleach & Fairy Tail, bad? Heresy.
👀
Mediocre is NOT the word to describe comics today.