This is a terrific technique that I've been using for a long while... as a frugal German! Your use of the PH measurement is a superior empirical tool that I must now add to my array - it saves time! I notice that you have a sourdough "surplus" jar. I keep one in the refrigerator too. I enjoy using it for pancakes/waffles/muffins/cookies etc. -- anything that I bake. My pancake recipe? 100g of (surplus) starter; 50g of "complete" pancake mix; 50g of water; 1 egg; any of the following: raw cacao nibs (3g), dried fruits (10g) etc.; cinnamon. Makes one super-large pancake for me! Cheers.
I've been watching the bread code for a couple weeks, and decided to try baking my first loaf of sourdough ever. I made a traditional starter, which took a week, and just baked my first loaf this morning. It was the best tasting bread I've ever eaten!
One thing about having it liquid: I think an important thing you should mention is that it gets much more active, also in the sense of feeding intervals. I would not make my sourdough this way since I may not bake bread often enough. The other way round the trick to put your starter in hibernation: have a much bigger flour part than water part causes the starter to go slower and you can have it in the fridge for a much longer time without worrying about starvation to death.
Beware those with a sensitive gut. With kefir your bread is now dairy. A lot of people are lactose/milk intolerant, and even a bit of milk will make their system very uncomfortable. And the original idea of eating Sourdough bread, as opposed to yeasted bread is the easier it is for the body to digest it with the natural fermentation of our beloved Sourdough bread. It might work for some though. Just not for everybody.
My sourdough starter lives next to my kefir jar on my counter, and they both live very happy lives. While I never used kefir directly in the starter, I can definitely smell that they share a flavor profile.
I made this starter and it works wonderfully, I always struggle with the traditional method. I'm not sure why, but the starters would always develop a rotten smell before maturing. I got so frustrated with the results so, I made one by including a very small pinch of bakers yeast and a few drops of lemon juice. that worked but I don't feel it is right, so I'm very glad for this recipe/method. The time to experiment isn't always there with my work hours. Thanks a lot.
This is awesome. This is the first time I used your liquid starter and I took your instructions and put the culture in a 82 F proofer. 19 hours later and I have a fully active starter that easily doubled in volume, right out of the box. Earlier I tried several sourdough recipes with sad results. The scent is slightly sour. Thanks again,
Hi Hendrik, i use both methods. My Wheat-Sourdough is 50:50, while my rye sourdough is liquidy. Both work great. The liquidy has another benefit as far as i know: The acidic fluid (and the fusel alkohol) on top of the jar works like a protective shield against mold. Though if you leave him for a few weeks in that state, the liquid gets some really disgusting dark brown colour and the smell goes torwards acetone (like nail polish remover). Still healthy, nothing to worry about - but i guess it will make some people not use it anymore. But it can survive in the fridge for weeks if not months. Just refresh/feed it once before baking (maybe twice, to be sure) and you're good to go.
There's something beautiful about using a starter at its peak and seeing it float in water. I would not want to trade that experience for this different approach.
Hi 'The Bread Code'. Something I discovered: The first two sourdough starters I tried to cultivate failed miserably. I used organic whole wheat flour (REWE Bio), but after a couple of days there was still no signs of activity, but mold started to spread, so I disposed of the starter. I assume there were just too many mold spores in the organic flour, which kinda makes sense. I switched to non-organic flours and that starter worked beautifully and still lives to the day. Thank you very much for the videos. You're awesome!
Super interesting. Yep, that makes sense. If the sourdough cultures don't win, you will have mold. Now you should be able to safely switch back to the organic cultures.
It took me nearly 3 weeks before I got my starter to start working for baking when I first began sourdoughing. It would have been much quicker with your method!!!! Thanks, nice video.
I agree with Mr Bread Code....there is a lot of sourdough information on TH-cam. I like the way this guy backs this up with some Science and testing. Vielen Dank aus Australian.
I'd love you to talk about your "sourdough surplus". Also, I've watched a ton of videos in starting to learn sourdough in the last couple months, but yours were the ones that really brought it all together for me. I totally understand the process now and feel like I can relax and enjoy it. Thank you so much!
Wonderful explanation! I accidentally did this too and truth to be told, I LOVE THE RESULT compare to regular starter! Months ago, I pressed the flash freeze button (I need cooler temp for freezer) and little did I know, it also boost the chill and air flow inside regular fridge drawer. I have few jars of starter as backup. As usual, I put them at the back of fridge. All of them started to have ice crystal on surface and became very very dry. Some even turned into popsicle LOL Refresh with 1:1:1 ratio did not help and ended up with thick paste of starter so I started to introduce more water. Honestly, I just eye ball the water, stirring it longer than usual (stir and stir and stir annndd stir...) and adding more water until I get somewhat slurry consistency. Used it for baking bread and turn out great. Repeat again for couple of weeks, and always get similar result. Never again I go back to old way of 1:1:1. I always wonder what happened and today I know why, thanks to your video. Awesome!
Okay, this is a cool hack. Thanks for the great tip. I had some ongoing starter issues several months back. The bacteria seemed to get an edge on my yeast and I kept getting watery starter that smelled way too vingary. This also resulted in unspectacular breads and eventually failed bread. I am not sure what the problem was, but I would say it is much easier to simply create a brand new starter than to muck around for over a week with the old starter trying to revive it. This high hydration method appears to shave days off the schedule.
The thing I love about bread making is the feeling we're mad scientists conducting our own experiments. Brewers yeast being in the air makes so much sense! There's a huge Labatt's brewery in my city and the air fills up with the smell of it on "hops day." I wonder if there's any benefit to people keeping their starter outside for a few hours who live nearby. Unfortunately I think I live too far away now. Thank you!
Amazing! Earlier you explode the sourdough starter 1:1 feeding myth. Here you explode the multiple feeding myth. Pioneers like you, Joy Ride Coffee (banetton not needed, etc.), Ben Starr (Perfect sourdough from 5-month-starved starter, etc.) and others, are demystifying sourdough baking, making it way more accessible while raising the standards of home baked sourdough.
You should read a few chapters of the "Handbuch Sauerteig". That book is praised as key literature. Authors are from big baking companies. You know where I'm going with this: Spontaneous sourdoughs are evil, unpredictable and should never be used (commercially) because they're not fully analysed and stuff like that. What a huge pile of BS that is. So I can fully support your statements. TH-cam bakers and all those wonderful blogs are heavensent for us home bakers!!!
I am excited to have found you...as an engineer I wanted to understand more of the actual mechanisims behind this 'starter' and you just gave me at least two that make sense: 1. the more water the easier it is for the organisms to move about; and 2. the importance of measuring pH to understand the state of the organisms (important because they are too small to see with the naked eye). Hope to see more now from you.
(Beginning to wish I could live in Germany for the many quality tools available in Europe.) Lovely instructions. I’m trying to work up the courage to start the starter. But there isn’t much to lose if it fails! This is a SUPER HELPFUL video! Thanks! Also, your wonderful subscribers post many intelligent & thoughtful comments. This is a great place to learn.
My starter lives in my fridge until 2 days before I want to make my dough. Sometimes it stays in the fridge for a month if I'm out of town and it gets no feedings. I've left a starter unfed for up to 5-6 months. When I get ready to make the dough I will create a levain 3 times in 2 days. Usually, I will feed 3 to 1. I've never had an issue with the starter doubling in 5-6 hours and get an excellent rise in my bread. I don't check my ph at all and as long as I autolyze for 2-3 hours everything just works out. Our ancestors did pretty much the same thing for thousands of years.
Very informative video. I am one of those non-Teutonic individuals who has been making sourdough starters for decades. I don't especially like sourdough bread but have friends who love the stuff, so I bake for them. Why am I "non-Teutonic"? It's because I lack a passion for precision, at least in this aspect of life. I've made good starters from all sorts of flours, including all-purpose white and nothing but chlorinated/fluoridated tap water. I measure nothing, stir less vigorously than you (lactobacillus species are facultative anaerobes) and seek a consistency like pancake batter; but, sometimes thicker or thinner. It ALL works. But some techniques, temps, etc. seem faster than others. In a cold refrigerator, starter can remain salvageable without feeding for many months. Your initial point is validated for me in practice by my observation that the least sour-tasting loaves are usually the ones that produced the most dramatic rises before baking and the best oven springs during baking. I do have a food scale and now I might start using it...might.
This is how my sourdough starter has always been. I am no bread expert, it just has seemed to work. I also like trying to master only high hydration sourdough, since it is said that high hydration doughs are best left to expert bakers. I figured I’d try to master the harder stuff first. Really enjoying your videos, by the way! Learning a ton! Thanks so much.
I feel like 50-70 hydration dough is more about the recipe, flour, and knitting; while high hydration dough really really depends on personal baking experience/experiment, thats why i love high hydration as well:)))
This video matches some things I've discovered when baking bread, certain parts are mission critical, the need to be exact to get perfect results. Other parts are different like in this video, the only important thing is "Is my starter healthy/active?". It's a bunch of organisms in a jar, does it really care if you accidentally use 2ml extra or less of water? Probably not, it just needs good conditions to feed and multiply.
Personally I wouldn't confuse a lower pH with better fermentation. It ferments faster but will peak sooner as well. A lower hydration starter will ferment slower but the structure will last longer in my opinion.
I normally used small percent of instant yeast and have it fully blow up then the next day feed it and I normally get my starter that way. 2days max but this is pretty great. It’s similar to adding fruit with flour and just letting it ferment
Fascinating thank-you. I'm about to make my first sough dough bread. To think I have ordered a starter from Amazon when I could have just watched your video....... The one I did watch, said it would take 7 days !!!
My sourdough.is in the fridge. I've been watching your videos only a couple of months, sand this is the first time I have made room for the proofing in the fridge. I put my dough sample in there too. I'm going to sleep now, dreaming of oven spring! 🤣
This was really interesting! I've actually recently started to increase my starter's hydration because of the easier stirring process and faster fermentation. I really liked it that you included a bit about the smell and I would really appreciate it if you could do a "smell"-video (starter, bulk fermentation smell changes, what are common smells at which stage...). BTW, one small correction, lactic acid bacteria are anaerobe (= don't use/require oxygen), so whatever the stirring works positively on, it's not the exposure of the lactic acid bacteria to oxygen.. :)
Thanks for the great comment! Interesting - how comes though that for instance when making wine, that you want to have more oxygen at the start? Is that the yeast that needs the oxygen?
@@the_bread_code Yes, the yeast requires the oxygen, it "eats" the sugars and transforms that in energy it then uses to reproduce. As far as I know in sourdough both the yeast and the bacteria live happily in balance together up to the point where the lactic acid condentration becomes too high and the yeast doesn't like that (although science isn't too sure about this one yet I believe) or the yeast runs out of sugars (which are the result of amylase that breaks down the carbohydrates in the flour).
I checked this a bit more in depth, as far as I can find (university was a looong time ago, but I still have the books!) the following two things happen simultaneously in sourdough: 1) amylase breaks down the starch part (carbohydrates) of the flour into sugars that the yeast eats (and during which process the yeast produces carbon dioxide which is used to inflate the dough >> yeast reproduces >> more carbon dioxide, but less sugar >> yeast no longer has food and stops producing gas. 2) protease breaks down the proteins (those are more present in the outer parts of the grains that were used for the flour, stronger flour, higher protein percentage) to aminoacids or aminoacid groups (aminoacids are the lego pieces that build up a protein). Lactic acid bacteria use these aminoacids to reproduce, during which process they also produce carbon dioxide as well as lactic acid. This lactic acid helps strengthen the gluten network (couldn't find the actual chemical process through which it does that), which improves gas retention of the dough, the extra carbon dioxide is a nice plus in helping the yeast to inflate the dough. Whats also interesting is that low protein flour has more sugar than high protein flour (my 10% protein flour has 74 %, my 15% flour has 70%), which is to be expected. However if only the yeast activity was important, then low protein flour would mean you can get a better inflated dough. In reality a strong flour (with less sugars) rises a lot better, which shows how important the gluten network is. I hope youtube won't block links, for some further reading: hxxps://www.hindawi.com/journals/jfq/2017/7825203/
Word du jour: Quintuple /KWINN tupl/ 5x I make sourdough pancakes in summer by doing the standard refresh and taking the discard to make the pancakes. Excellent way to start the morning.
👏👏👏 Best Video! This answers so many questions I myself have had about sour dough starter. You should never be ashamed about getting excited about your bread. People get excited over the silliest things. Bread is a good thing to get excited about. You have mastered this bread. It took a lot of time and energy. This is honest work. I am excited for you! Kind Regards.
I am a newbie to sourdough...my first attempt at starter failed. I was using organic unbleached all-purpose flour. I went and bought organic rye and organic whole wheat flours and I will try your method as my second attempt. Wish me luck! BTW I love e the total geek out moments! I'm a bit of a science nerd myself 🤓
My 'starter' is just a constant culture I feed once a day (or few days not). From that I make my breads. The structure (of the culture) changes also from time to time which is fun÷)
Thank you. I'm going to try this soon. P.S. The easiest way to pronounce "months" is to drop the /th/ sound. This is how we lazy English do it most of the time (though if you ask us, we will deny it).
@@the_bread_code I'm guessing that you mean we should make sure to re-calculate the water content of our dough recipe when changing to a starter that's 2 parts water, 1 part flour?
Always thoroughly enjoy your experiments and detailed explanations. Takes all the guesswork out of it, and answers all my questions. Here's another question though: I've been cutting a chunk off my dough before shaping and using that as the starter. Ultimate stiff starter. Works well for bread. Should I feed it inbetween making breads?
I love your channel and the approach you use and questions you ask 😊 thanks to you I finally managed to bake a great loaf in January (and I am doing so up until now). Yesterday I found out that my starter got moldy (right when I was determined to dry out and store some of it 😂) and I though I would need to start all over BUT I managed to revive it from my discard jar (this jar is also a hack I learned from you). Btw, that discarded sourdough in combination with baking soda is a perfect way to get the fluffiest pancakes ever. so many many thanks ♥️
I just found your channel and I am so happy I did.. I have tried many recipes to make sour dough starter but not one gave me a loaf of bread.... I am going to try your way as it makes more sense... Thank you for sharing a great video to us newbie... i I watched this video... I have had no
Was thinking about adding more water to my starter, and dough (bakers percentage from 75% to 81%). Not sure I'll go as far as you have gone, and I'm going to add more water. I want more oven spring. Will see what I end up with. Thank you for sharing your experiments. It helps me experiment also.
I've been told and have experienced that a higher hydration starter will keep longer without contamination. The acidic "hooch" acts like a barrier. I revived a starter that was in the back of my fridge and over a year old with no contamination.
@@the_bread_code If you use it regularly it definitely won't. I've seen mold grow on the edges of a neglected, room temperature, starter jar. It takes a few weeks. If I need to leave my starter for extended periods I mix a higher hydration, transfer to clean jar and keep in fridge. I've even dried out starter on parchment for shipping to friends or for longer storage backup. Love your content!
@@SeeNyuOG You are right. However, the more hooch the better for long term storage (to a point). There is loss to evaporation as well as peaks formed in the flour due to gas that can break the surface of the liquid. That's where islands of mold can form. Again this is for long term storage and/or trying to create an extreme sour bomb to add to experiments (usually from 'discard'). I've been baking sourdough with the same starter for 30 years and have seen a lot. Contamination is rare but can definitely occur.
@@anthonye7216 My starter in the fridge of 1 year got mold, I may have neglected it for maybe...2 days tops without feeding. That's all it took for the mold to get in there lol. Annoyed. I had to bin it and start over.
This video is completely over the top for me! I will try it immediately. And I thought feeding my starter every day was a good way. Off to get a PH meter though, need a way to check what I'm doing. You're epic Hendrik, thanks for showing us your out of the box experiments.
@@the_bread_code I just imagined Super Saiyan Level 2 Sourdough 🤓. But back on the pH meter, is there a way to measure if the bread if proofed-ready-for-bake based on pH value?
I have had my starter going for about a year. I would put it in the fridge and refresh each week. Now I plan on just leaving it in the fridge without refreshing weekly, pull a bit as I need to make bread, feed it once and then leave the rest. When the volume of the starter is too low, i will refresh then. The loaves I have baked this way are great.
There's a lady on TH-cam (somehow old, I forgot her name) that puts so much flour just to make the starter completely dry and keep in refrigerator. 12h+ before baking she just adds water
@@SeeNyuOGthis lady is named Anja (pronounced “Anya”- she is German), and her channel is “Our Gabled Home”. Since this video and your comment, she has more videos and techniques on her channel.
Very interesting, thank you! However, a couple of points: pH is not a reliable measurement for acidity with such huge difference in hydration. Flour has strong buffering properties, so higher hydration -> lower buffer capacity -> lower pH, even if the concentration of acid is the same. Also, to be honest I suspect there was cross-contamination from your established starter, hard to believe it would work so quickly. E.g. did you sterilize the pH meter between the main starter and the new ones? And the other tools?
Great points, thank you! I didn't fully sterilize it, just used water for a few seconds. So yep, you might be right that that has contributed to the speed :-)
I would've liked to have seen how long your bulk fermentation took on the bread with the new starter to compare with an established starter that has been recently fed. Is there a significant difference?
Hi from the USA! I love your experimental videos and setups! Please, please make a video or share a segment on how you set up your oven digital themometer probe. I watch all your videos beginning to end :)
Great video Hendrik. I have read a lot of nerdy bread books, eg Modernist Bread, but I am a visual/auditory learner and I really get a lot out of your explanations. Well done for trying something new! My new favorite channel.
Thank you for sharing the experiment. I've been feeding my rye starter 1-5-6 lately because the house is cooler and I noticed that when I give a bit more water it's ready to make bread in the morning. If i feed it 1-5-5 I have to wait longer to start mixing the bread
Well done! Such a simple and quick method! Love your enthusiasm when you see it's working 😄 Make a short how-to version of this before someone else does it = profit
Hmm, food for thought.... I have been using a poolish for my breads, but what I am doing is almost a sour dough starter.... I keep 3 different poolish starters in the fridge. One is standard with a yeast starter. I have been using 100 g of flour, and 120 or so g of water. It easily doubles in size. One is based on kombucha. Found out it is best to use the sludge in the bottom of the bottle rather than just the liquid. Again, using 100 g of flour and 120 or so g of kombucha. It takes maybe 2 days for the poolish to raise 30 to 50%. I feed it more flour and water, in about the same ratio. It never raises more than 50% and smells very sour. My guess is that it is rather acidic and that is why it never raises much. The third jar is a mix of maybe 25% kombucha poolish, and 75% standard poolish. This is the one I prefer to bake with. I just like the taste better. This will raise to almost double, and seems to vary. I am guessing that even though I start with the poolish, I end up with a sour dough starter... I do seem to need to add more yeast to get the full rise. At present, I am autolising, and doing the over night ferment in the fridge. I keep progressing to higher hydration levels, but never know exactly what my hydration ratio is. Kind of wonder if the moisture meters that are used in wood shops would work on dough???? I am learning to have a preference for a specific 'feel' of the dough... Now, I need to build an outdoor oven...... Oh, there are several videos about making sour dough starter using kombucha. Any yeast, apparently can be used, including brewer's yeast, and/or the sludge from the bottom of a bottle of home brew?. Kimchi? Nutritional yeast? Sour kraut?
This is similar to how I maintain my starter. However mine requires way more time. I pour 100ml of boiling water into 1 tbsp flour. Let it cool then add 1 tbsp starter from the last batch. In my head canon this better maintains the integrity of the starters original yeast and bacteria. 🤷♂️ Alternatively I have kept fermented porridge and taken from that to inoculate my dough. The PH meter is really the way to go and am looking forward to a smart jar which alerts the home baker when the dough is ready.
Cool. I recommend a taste test instead of a smell test for acidity. And changing one of the four parameters produces differing results, what do you know. The russians have an institute of bread cultures in St. Petersburg established after the famines of WW2. They catalogue the different starter cultures, with accompanying yeasts and lacto-bacteria. I've seen them use a yeast-less culture that is anaerobic, stiff, warm and rye-based too - 50% hydration, kept at 38-40Cº among other things. Generally if you change temperature, hydration, feed base or access to air you can get very different results, endless possibilities. More hydration gives you relatively more yeasts than lacto-bacteria, so more lift and less acid. I have a liquid (really, like beer, kept at 18-28Cº) banana starter, a semolina starter (stiff, 50% hydration, at 12-16Cº), a full rye starter (100% hydration, 4-8Cº) and some times some others are transiently here for my enjoyment. Keep on experimenting. Cheers!
He is using a solid food pH meter. They pretty spendy, though I'd love to have one as well. I have a liquid pH meter from the same brand as his, and it is very reliable.
Good ones are expensive. If you want to get a less precise (but cheap) idea of your starter ph, you could always try the strips of close measurement paper, often used for kombucha and other fermented products. They are normally accurate incrementally to around 0.5 ph, which is still somewhat useful.
@@the_bread_code yes, true, I will need to recalculate that. I made my last one at 70%, but it was too tough so I added another 5% to make it 75%. It came out perfect.
Although i love your PH meter to measure how far along the fermentation is, i would love to see someone measure it by how much gas is produced. Im sure you’ve seen videos/pictures of people putting a plastic/latex glove on their starter jar that then blows up as the starter ferments. It would be a very fun and camera friendly/views garnering method to have 3-5 jars with the exact same amount of starter, same amount of flour, but different levels of hydration blow up their bag/glove in a time lapse. A lid with a jar with a valve that measures gas output would be the ultimate geek tool, which would rival the lid with the camera that measures starter expansion in accuracy.
I know this is from a year ago. My question is if you have another more recent video about if you prefer this high hydration starter or the stiff starter? I’m having issues figuring out my stiff starter. I think I must be making it too stiff because the top dries out forming a crust that keeps the moist starter underneath from rising. I’m just beginning to learn and very much enjoy your videos.
Fantastic. I started making a starter three days ago following the instructions of the Wild Sourdough Project (North Carolina State University Public Science Lab). But their's takes up two weeks! So I started one today using your technique. I wonder which one will win? :) Looking forward to making your no knead sourdough bread in less than a week from now!
Are you able to share of us one of your recipe using the stand mixer I have Kenwood mixer and I've tried few recipe from you or others but it was big success,🙏🏼🙏🏼
Hi Henrik, loved the science behind your experiment! Interesting note on the brewery location and its relationship to the bakery and their starter. 😅 Here’s my story: When I was given my first starter, it was pretty tired and inactive. I fed it constantly without much to show for. I was about to toss it. One day I got tired and I gave it Oktoberfest beer 🍺 instead of water and guess what? It loved it! That’s now my favorite starter! (I have 4 in the rotation). It smells wonderful and works beautifully! I’ve had it for almost a year now. 😊. Are you going to try to make this into another experiment ? 🤩
Might sound a little crazy, but I wonder what difference it would make if the starter were actively aerated with an aquarium air pump and air stone. Much more activity from obligate aerobes would be my guess. When we alter oxygen concentration, we should be growing different kinds of organisms. What kind of bread would it make? Might be time for another experiment!
It doesn’t sound crazy. When I make beer at home I either shake the fermenter or put a rotary drill-powered stirrer in the mixture to aerate the liquid before adding the yeast in. This puts more oxygen into the mixture, which helps the yeast do its job. Shaking the liquid sourdough starter is definitely worth a try worth a try by the same logic.
You are always pushing the envelope and I love it. I'm certainly going to try this entire recipe from starter to baking. I take that you have adjusted the hydration of the final mix so it's not to sticky?
one day after making the liquid starter it already had bubbles and smell like yoghurt. Fermented dairy, pretty interesting, i gave another feed and will try to bake with it tomorrow
I made a sourdough pan loaf yesterday using your "revolutionary" watered-down starter. Here's how I did it. I took 5 grams of my well-established starter, usually fed with whole rye flour. It had been unfed in the fridge for a week. Added 25 grams of rye flour and 50 grams of water. Let it develop to max, and fall back down again. Took 10 grams of the resulting starter and added it to 30 grams of rye flour and 6o grams of water. Let if ferment overnight. I could tell it had risen to more than double, but by morning it was back down to a lower level. I used 100 grams of this as my levain. In my recipe that is 14% baker's percentage. I added this to an 80% whole wheat, 20% unbleached flour loaf mix with 5 grams of diastatic malt powder. Water to 75% hydration, 2% salt. It took 9 hours to ferment during which it rose 66%. I patted it down, shaped the pan loaf, stitched the bottom seam, and let it proof for 2.5 hours. When it felt soft in the finger poke test I slashed and baked it. Wow! I could have let it proof longer! It pushed up through the top of the loaf with an ear on each side. And it tastes great! Very tangy and delicious! This was a success! Thanks for this tip, and all the other things I've learned from your videos.
Hey Hendrik, when making beer we often add yeast nutrients- a mixture of minerals and such - to encourage yeast growth and development, have you ever used them in a bread dough or starter? It would be interesting to see if it made any difference to the speed of activation or flavour. Also if it help I think Amylase is pronounced amilāze Short I long a and Protease is pronounced prōtāze long o long a
This is very interesting! Another pure curiosity, I was wondering how the types of flours used in the Starter make differences in Gluten development, fermentation time, etc. I’ve got wheat/Spelt/Rye starter (maybe I just needed one but I wanted to do some experiments...😉) and I feel like my dough ferments better when I use different levain together.. for example, for rye+ wheat flour bread, I fed both wheat + roggen starter respectively. I felt like it worked better but I don’t know whether it really is.. do you have any ideas? :)
Hi Hendrik, I can't find the PH monitor model you have with the links provided above and would be grateful if you could let me know which it is please?
Tolles Video. Du bist die 2 Person, die ich bei YT gesehen habe, die sich für flüssigen Sauerteig "einsetzt". Herr Andreas Sommers spricht darüber in seinen Filmem. Ich versuche seit ca einen Monat Brot zu backen (vor allem Roggen Vollkorn, eigener Sauerteig klassich - viel Futter, viel wegschmeisse, draußen gelassen, eher dickflüssig bist wie ne Paste) und nach sehr guten Anfängen erlebe ich gerade sehr schwierige Phase. Meine Brote sehen zwar gut bis sehr gut aus, sind nicht zu fest, nicht zu rocken aber den fehlt auf jeden Fall diese typische Säuregeschmack, die schmecken sehr flach, fast mehlig und nich salzig genug obwohl ich immer ordentlich Salz dazu gebe.
I did notice that my sourdough starter got more acidic faster when it was at a higher hydration. In the beginning of my sourdough adventure my ratio was 1:1 by volume and not by mass, so it probably was around 150 % hydration. So I went the other way, lowering the hydration so I didn't have to feed it as often in between bakes.
@@David-we3sb I mean, sure, but that would mess with the dough temperature and affect bulk fermentation times. Maybe it's a good tip if you live in a hot climate, but I don't.
Wow thanks for this! Like you, I don't weigh my feeds anymore - I do like a 5 g seed: 25 g flour and around 25 g water for a 24 hour room temp feed each day. I do find - and would love your thoughts - that in the hot and humid summer months, I actually have to lower the hydration a little to keep a healthy starter. I wonder what the science is behind that?? :) Thanks for what you do and share - so much fun!
no feeding it will only take two or three days? what temp is necessary for the starter? 72 to 80 degrees F? I have tried this before ....i will try again ...i love the lazy approach so much . i appreciate YOU
This is a terrific technique that I've been using for a long while... as a frugal German! Your use of the PH measurement is a superior empirical tool that I must now add to my array - it saves time! I notice that you have a sourdough "surplus" jar. I keep one in the refrigerator too. I enjoy using it for pancakes/waffles/muffins/cookies etc. -- anything that I bake. My pancake recipe? 100g of (surplus) starter; 50g of "complete" pancake mix; 50g of water; 1 egg; any of the following: raw cacao nibs (3g), dried fruits (10g) etc.; cinnamon. Makes one super-large pancake for me! Cheers.
That sounds delicious!
I've been watching the bread code for a couple weeks, and decided to try baking my first loaf of sourdough ever. I made a traditional starter, which took a week, and just baked my first loaf this morning. It was the best tasting bread I've ever eaten!
One thing about having it liquid: I think an important thing you should mention is that it gets much more active, also in the sense of feeding intervals. I would not make my sourdough this way since I may not bake bread often enough.
The other way round the trick to put your starter in hibernation: have a much bigger flour part than water part causes the starter to go slower and you can have it in the fridge for a much longer time without worrying about starvation to death.
100% great comment!
I agree with you! I keep my starter with more flour to top off and keep in the fridge until I am ready to bake.
For anyone who makes kefir, it has a huge amount of wild yeasts as well. I created an excellent starter by using kefir, water, and flour....
Beware those with a sensitive gut.
With kefir your bread is now dairy. A lot of people are lactose/milk intolerant, and even a bit of milk will make their system very uncomfortable. And the original idea of eating Sourdough bread, as opposed to yeasted bread is the easier it is for the body to digest it with the natural fermentation of our beloved Sourdough bread.
It might work for some though. Just not for everybody.
@@amorosa101 pretty sure kefir is used just to get it going. After a few feedings there would be no dairy.
@@om1701d exactly, plus there's water kefir as well...
I created my first starter with a little yogurt in with the water and flour and his name is Yogi
My sourdough starter lives next to my kefir jar on my counter, and they both live very happy lives. While I never used kefir directly in the starter, I can definitely smell that they share a flavor profile.
I made this starter and it works wonderfully, I always struggle with the traditional method. I'm not sure why, but the starters would always develop a rotten smell before maturing. I got so frustrated with the results so, I made one by including a very small pinch of bakers yeast and a few drops of lemon juice. that worked but I don't feel it is right, so I'm very glad for this recipe/method. The time to experiment isn't always there with my work hours.
Thanks a lot.
This is awesome. This is the first time I used your liquid starter and I took your instructions and put the culture in a 82 F proofer. 19 hours later and I have a fully active starter that easily doubled in volume, right out of the box. Earlier I tried several sourdough recipes with sad results. The scent is slightly sour. Thanks again,
Hi Hendrik,
i use both methods. My Wheat-Sourdough is 50:50, while my rye sourdough is liquidy. Both work great.
The liquidy has another benefit as far as i know: The acidic fluid (and the fusel alkohol) on top of the jar works like a protective shield against mold. Though if you leave him for a few weeks in that state, the liquid gets some really disgusting dark brown colour and the smell goes torwards acetone (like nail polish remover). Still healthy, nothing to worry about - but i guess it will make some people not use it anymore. But it can survive in the fridge for weeks if not months. Just refresh/feed it once before baking (maybe twice, to be sure) and you're good to go.
There's something beautiful about using a starter at its peak and seeing it float in water. I would not want to trade that experience for this different approach.
You have a point 🤓
Hi 'The Bread Code'. Something I discovered: The first two sourdough starters I tried to cultivate failed miserably. I used organic whole wheat flour (REWE Bio), but after a couple of days there was still no signs of activity, but mold started to spread, so I disposed of the starter. I assume there were just too many mold spores in the organic flour, which kinda makes sense. I switched to non-organic flours and that starter worked beautifully and still lives to the day. Thank you very much for the videos. You're awesome!
Super interesting. Yep, that makes sense. If the sourdough cultures don't win, you will have mold. Now you should be able to safely switch back to the organic cultures.
It took me nearly 3 weeks before I got my starter to start working for baking when I first began sourdoughing. It would have been much quicker with your method!!!! Thanks, nice video.
The note about the bakery and the brewery blew my mind! I'm starting a small business with this two things!! THANK YOU!
I agree with Mr Bread Code....there is a lot of sourdough information on TH-cam. I like the way this guy backs this up with some Science and testing. Vielen Dank aus Australian.
I'd love you to talk about your "sourdough surplus". Also, I've watched a ton of videos in starting to learn sourdough in the last couple months, but yours were the ones that really brought it all together for me. I totally understand the process now and feel like I can relax and enjoy it. Thank you so much!
My pleasure! I do like to make an excellent bread out of it from time to time. It's really delicious. Definitely high in my favorites :-)
Wonderful explanation! I accidentally did this too and truth to be told, I LOVE THE RESULT compare to regular starter! Months ago, I pressed the flash freeze button (I need cooler temp for freezer) and little did I know, it also boost the chill and air flow inside regular fridge drawer. I have few jars of starter as backup. As usual, I put them at the back of fridge. All of them started to have ice crystal on surface and became very very dry. Some even turned into popsicle LOL Refresh with 1:1:1 ratio did not help and ended up with thick paste of starter so I started to introduce more water. Honestly, I just eye ball the water, stirring it longer than usual (stir and stir and stir annndd stir...) and adding more water until I get somewhat slurry consistency. Used it for baking bread and turn out great. Repeat again for couple of weeks, and always get similar result. Never again I go back to old way of 1:1:1. I always wonder what happened and today I know why, thanks to your video. Awesome!
Okay, this is a cool hack. Thanks for the great tip.
I had some ongoing starter issues several months back. The bacteria seemed to get an edge on my yeast and I kept getting watery starter that smelled way too vingary. This also resulted in unspectacular breads and eventually failed bread. I am not sure what the problem was, but I would say it is much easier to simply create a brand new starter than to muck around for over a week with the old starter trying to revive it. This high hydration method appears to shave days off the schedule.
You have become my favourite bread channel. I use your tips all the time and my bread game has been on point lately!
Yay! Thank you!
The thing I love about bread making is the feeling we're mad scientists conducting our own experiments. Brewers yeast being in the air makes so much sense! There's a huge Labatt's brewery in my city and the air fills up with the smell of it on "hops day." I wonder if there's any benefit to people keeping their starter outside for a few hours who live nearby. Unfortunately I think I live too far away now. Thank you!
I remember that from the center of city of Hamburg, loved it!
Amazing! Earlier you explode the sourdough starter 1:1 feeding myth. Here you explode the multiple feeding myth. Pioneers like you, Joy Ride Coffee (banetton not needed, etc.), Ben Starr (Perfect sourdough from 5-month-starved starter, etc.) and others, are demystifying sourdough baking, making it way more accessible while raising the standards of home baked sourdough.
My pleasure! I always love challenging things that are taken for granted :-). The other channels are amazing as well, I am a loyal subscriber.
You should read a few chapters of the "Handbuch Sauerteig". That book is praised as key literature. Authors are from big baking companies. You know where I'm going with this:
Spontaneous sourdoughs are evil, unpredictable and should never be used (commercially) because they're not fully analysed and stuff like that.
What a huge pile of BS that is. So I can fully support your statements. TH-cam bakers and all those wonderful blogs are heavensent for us home bakers!!!
To chime in here: perfect sourdough from a 5-month starter is just literally him recreating a starter....lol
@@MichaelREFLECTS that’s what I was thinking. He wouldn’t even have to use the old starter with that fermentation
I am excited to have found you...as an engineer I wanted to understand more of the actual mechanisims behind this 'starter' and you just gave me at least two that make sense: 1. the more water the easier it is for the organisms to move about; and 2. the importance of measuring pH to understand the state of the organisms (important because they are too small to see with the naked eye). Hope to see more now from you.
(Beginning to wish I could live in Germany for the many quality tools available in Europe.) Lovely instructions. I’m trying to work up the courage to start the starter. But there isn’t much to lose if it fails! This is a SUPER HELPFUL video! Thanks! Also, your wonderful subscribers post many intelligent & thoughtful comments. This is a great place to learn.
Thank you very much!
you've become a real Master Baker!
After this experiment I feel like I know nothing 🤣
My starter lives in my fridge until 2 days before I want to make my dough. Sometimes it stays in the fridge for a month if I'm out of town and it gets no feedings. I've left a starter unfed for up to 5-6 months. When I get ready to make the dough I will create a levain 3 times in 2 days. Usually, I will feed 3 to 1. I've never had an issue with the starter doubling in 5-6 hours and get an excellent rise in my bread. I don't check my ph at all and as long as I autolyze for 2-3 hours everything just works out. Our ancestors did pretty much the same thing for thousands of years.
Yep, fully agreed! It's a great way to approach it too.
Very informative video. I am one of those non-Teutonic individuals who has been making sourdough starters for decades. I don't especially like sourdough bread but have friends who love the stuff, so I bake for them. Why am I "non-Teutonic"? It's because I lack a passion for precision, at least in this aspect of life. I've made good starters from all sorts of flours, including all-purpose white and nothing but chlorinated/fluoridated tap water. I measure nothing, stir less vigorously than you (lactobacillus species are facultative anaerobes) and seek a consistency like pancake batter; but, sometimes thicker or thinner. It ALL works. But some techniques, temps, etc. seem faster than others. In a cold refrigerator, starter can remain salvageable without feeding for many months. Your initial point is validated for me in practice by my observation that the least sour-tasting loaves are usually the ones that produced the most dramatic rises before baking and the best oven springs during baking. I do have a food scale and now I might start using it...might.
This is how my sourdough starter has always been. I am no bread expert, it just has seemed to work. I also like trying to master only high hydration sourdough, since it is said that high hydration doughs are best left to expert bakers. I figured I’d try to master the harder stuff first. Really enjoying your videos, by the way! Learning a ton! Thanks so much.
I feel like 50-70 hydration dough is more about the recipe, flour, and knitting; while high hydration dough really really depends on personal baking experience/experiment, thats why i love high hydration as well:)))
Amazing bro as usual. Thanks for what you are doing spreading knowledge. My baking skills have improved a lot thanks to you!
Thank you!
This video matches some things I've discovered when baking bread, certain parts are mission critical, the need to be exact to get perfect results. Other parts are different like in this video, the only important thing is "Is my starter healthy/active?". It's a bunch of organisms in a jar, does it really care if you accidentally use 2ml extra or less of water? Probably not, it just needs good conditions to feed and multiply.
The way you score your bread make it a piece of art!
Personally I wouldn't confuse a lower pH with better fermentation. It ferments faster but will peak sooner as well. A lower hydration starter will ferment slower but the structure will last longer in my opinion.
I normally used small percent of instant yeast and have it fully blow up then the next day feed it and I normally get my starter that way. 2days max but this is pretty great. It’s similar to adding fruit with flour and just letting it ferment
Fascinating thank-you. I'm about to make my first sough dough bread. To think I have ordered a starter from Amazon when I could have just watched your video....... The one I did watch, said it would take 7 days !!!
My sourdough.is in the fridge. I've been watching your videos only a couple of months, sand this is the first time I have made room for the proofing in the fridge. I put my dough sample in there too. I'm going to sleep now, dreaming of oven spring! 🤣
Going to give this a try for sure.
Good luck!
This was really interesting! I've actually recently started to increase my starter's hydration because of the easier stirring process and faster fermentation. I really liked it that you included a bit about the smell and I would really appreciate it if you could do a "smell"-video (starter, bulk fermentation smell changes, what are common smells at which stage...).
BTW, one small correction, lactic acid bacteria are anaerobe (= don't use/require oxygen), so whatever the stirring works positively on, it's not the exposure of the lactic acid bacteria to oxygen.. :)
I second the smell video! A great idea
Thanks for the great comment! Interesting - how comes though that for instance when making wine, that you want to have more oxygen at the start? Is that the yeast that needs the oxygen?
@@the_bread_code Yes exactly, the yeasts need oxygen to transform sugars into ethanol. It's called the crabtree effect if I'm not mistaken.
@@the_bread_code Yes, the yeast requires the oxygen, it "eats" the sugars and transforms that in energy it then uses to reproduce. As far as I know in sourdough both the yeast and the bacteria live happily in balance together up to the point where the lactic acid condentration becomes too high and the yeast doesn't like that (although science isn't too sure about this one yet I believe) or the yeast runs out of sugars (which are the result of amylase that breaks down the carbohydrates in the flour).
I checked this a bit more in depth, as far as I can find (university was a looong time ago, but I still have the books!) the following two things happen simultaneously in sourdough:
1) amylase breaks down the starch part (carbohydrates) of the flour into sugars that the yeast eats (and during which process the yeast produces carbon dioxide which is used to inflate the dough >> yeast reproduces >> more carbon dioxide, but less sugar >> yeast no longer has food and stops producing gas.
2) protease breaks down the proteins (those are more present in the outer parts of the grains that were used for the flour, stronger flour, higher protein percentage) to aminoacids or aminoacid groups (aminoacids are the lego pieces that build up a protein). Lactic acid bacteria use these aminoacids to reproduce, during which process they also produce carbon dioxide as well as lactic acid. This lactic acid helps strengthen the gluten network (couldn't find the actual chemical process through which it does that), which improves gas retention of the dough, the extra carbon dioxide is a nice plus in helping the yeast to inflate the dough.
Whats also interesting is that low protein flour has more sugar than high protein flour (my 10% protein flour has 74 %, my 15% flour has 70%), which is to be expected. However if only the yeast activity was important, then low protein flour would mean you can get a better inflated dough. In reality a strong flour (with less sugars) rises a lot better, which shows how important the gluten network is.
I hope youtube won't block links, for some further reading:
hxxps://www.hindawi.com/journals/jfq/2017/7825203/
Word du jour: Quintuple /KWINN tupl/ 5x
I make sourdough pancakes in summer by doing the standard refresh and taking the discard to make the pancakes. Excellent way to start the morning.
*surplus
Thanks. Quintuple. What about sixtuple? And agreed with void, surplus is the best name 🤣
👏👏👏 Best Video! This answers so many questions I myself have had about sour dough starter. You should never be ashamed about getting excited about your bread. People get excited over the silliest things. Bread is a good thing to get excited about. You have mastered this bread. It took a lot of time and energy. This is honest work. I am excited for you! Kind Regards.
I am a newbie to sourdough...my first attempt at starter failed. I was using organic unbleached all-purpose flour. I went and bought organic rye and organic whole wheat flours and I will try your method as my second attempt. Wish me luck! BTW I love e the total geek out moments! I'm a bit of a science nerd myself 🤓
My 'starter' is just a constant culture I feed once a day (or few days not). From that I make my breads. The structure (of the culture) changes also from time to time which is fun÷)
When you dont need it you not have to feed him every day. All 7-8 days is enough when you dont need the sourdough.
Agreed, it's a great pet!
Thank you. I'm going to try this soon.
P.S. The easiest way to pronounce "months" is to drop the /th/ sound. This is how we lazy English do it most of the time (though if you ask us, we will deny it).
I do pronounce the ‘th’ in months but you are right that omitting the th sound can work too (six munts)
This video came at the perfect time! I was just about to feed my starter!
My pleasure! Just be careful with the hydration of your main dough. It shouldn't be too wet!
@@the_bread_code Yes, I usually get it to be about 80% hydration. My flour has 13% protein.
@@the_bread_code I'm guessing that you mean we should make sure to re-calculate the water content of our dough recipe when changing to a starter that's 2 parts water, 1 part flour?
Always thoroughly enjoy your experiments and detailed explanations. Takes all the guesswork out of it, and answers all my questions.
Here's another question though:
I've been cutting a chunk off my dough before shaping and using that as the starter. Ultimate stiff starter. Works well for bread. Should I feed it inbetween making breads?
I love your channel and the approach you use and questions you ask 😊 thanks to you I finally managed to bake a great loaf in January (and I am doing so up until now).
Yesterday I found out that my starter got moldy (right when I was determined to dry out and store some of it 😂) and I though I would need to start all over BUT I managed to revive it from my discard jar (this jar is also a hack I learned from you). Btw, that discarded sourdough in combination with baking soda is a perfect way to get the fluffiest pancakes ever. so many many thanks ♥️
Awesome, thanks for the great comment. Your discard starter saved you there. It's so high in acid that mould doesn't like it :-)
@@the_bread_code yeah, it's a real acid party in there 😂
I just found your channel and I am so happy I did.. I have tried many recipes to make sour dough starter but not one gave me a loaf of bread.... I am going to try your way as it makes more sense... Thank you for sharing a great video to us newbie...
i I watched this video... I have had no
Was thinking about adding more water to my starter, and dough (bakers percentage from 75% to 81%). Not sure I'll go as far as you have gone, and I'm going to add more water. I want more oven spring. Will see what I end up with. Thank you for sharing your experiments. It helps me experiment also.
My pleasure!
I never discard starter, it's good to see people doing this. There is no need to feed everyday even every week
I've been told and have experienced that a higher hydration starter will keep longer without contamination. The acidic "hooch" acts like a barrier. I revived a starter that was in the back of my fridge and over a year old with no contamination.
Interesting point. I personally never had a starter go bad on me.
@@the_bread_code If you use it regularly it definitely won't. I've seen mold grow on the edges of a neglected, room temperature, starter jar. It takes a few weeks. If I need to leave my starter for extended periods I mix a higher hydration, transfer to clean jar and keep in fridge. I've even dried out starter on parchment for shipping to friends or for longer storage backup. Love your content!
It doesn't have to be more liquid to have hooch
@@SeeNyuOG You are right. However, the more hooch the better for long term storage (to a point). There is loss to evaporation as well as peaks formed in the flour due to gas that can break the surface of the liquid. That's where islands of mold can form. Again this is for long term storage and/or trying to create an extreme sour bomb to add to experiments (usually from 'discard'). I've been baking sourdough with the same starter for 30 years and have seen a lot. Contamination is rare but can definitely occur.
@@anthonye7216 My starter in the fridge of 1 year got mold, I may have neglected it for maybe...2 days tops without feeding. That's all it took for the mold to get in there lol. Annoyed. I had to bin it and start over.
This video is completely over the top for me! I will try it immediately. And I thought feeding my starter every day was a good way. Off to get a PH meter though, need a way to check what I'm doing. You're epic Hendrik, thanks for showing us your out of the box experiments.
Thank you! Also great username. DB fan here myself 🤓. The problem with the pH meter is that it is very pricey.
@@the_bread_code I just imagined Super Saiyan Level 2 Sourdough 🤓. But back on the pH meter, is there a way to measure if the bread if proofed-ready-for-bake based on pH value?
Heute back‘ ich, morgen brau‘ ich. Can’t wait for the beer code!
I have had my starter going for about a year. I would put it in the fridge and refresh each week. Now I plan on just leaving it in the fridge without refreshing weekly, pull a bit as I need to make bread, feed it once and then leave the rest. When the volume of the starter is too low, i will refresh then. The loaves I have baked this way are great.
There's a lady on TH-cam (somehow old, I forgot her name) that puts so much flour just to make the starter completely dry and keep in refrigerator. 12h+ before baking she just adds water
@@SeeNyuOGthis lady is named Anja (pronounced “Anya”- she is German), and her channel is “Our Gabled Home”. Since this video and your comment, she has more videos and techniques on her channel.
Very interesting, thank you!
However, a couple of points: pH is not a reliable measurement for acidity with such huge difference in hydration. Flour has strong buffering properties, so higher hydration -> lower buffer capacity -> lower pH, even if the concentration of acid is the same.
Also, to be honest I suspect there was cross-contamination from your established starter, hard to believe it would work so quickly. E.g. did you sterilize the pH meter between the main starter and the new ones? And the other tools?
Great points, thank you! I didn't fully sterilize it, just used water for a few seconds. So yep, you might be right that that has contributed to the speed :-)
I would've liked to have seen how long your bulk fermentation took on the bread with the new starter to compare with an established starter that has been recently fed. Is there a significant difference?
I would like to know as well
Yes. It definitely was waaaay slower. I'd say 15 hours overall. I used the pH meter to check when it was done. It's such a great tool 🤣
@@the_bread_code Now I'm curious. How do you use a pH-meter to determine when bulk fermentation is done?
Ok. I will give it a try tomorrow. Thx.
My pleasure!
Hi from the USA! I love your experimental videos and setups! Please, please make a video or share a segment on how you set up your oven digital themometer probe. I watch all your videos beginning to end :)
Thank you 🙏🏻 th-cam.com/video/NrKHO2xZTEU/w-d-xo.html towards the end 👍
Great video Hendrik. I have read a lot of nerdy bread books, eg Modernist Bread, but I am a visual/auditory learner and I really get a lot out of your explanations. Well done for trying something new! My new favorite channel.
My pleasure! Still need to read modernist bread. I wonder how good it is. Can you recommend it?
I suggest adding a buffer to keep the pH over the optimum range. This will select the yeast and bacteria desired.
Thank you for sharing the experiment.
I've been feeding my rye starter 1-5-6 lately because the house is cooler and I noticed that when I give a bit more water it's ready to make bread in the morning. If i feed it 1-5-5 I have to wait longer to start mixing the bread
please explain 1-5-6 vs 1-5-5. Thank you
Can’t wait to try this. I’ll let you know what happens.
Please keep me posted!
Well done! Such a simple and quick method! Love your enthusiasm when you see it's working 😄 Make a short how-to version of this before someone else does it = profit
On it 🤓. Not sure though if you can use this method though to bake bread like you do, where every parameter has to be on point.
Hmm, food for thought.... I have been using a poolish for my breads, but what I am doing is almost a sour dough starter.... I keep 3 different poolish starters in the fridge. One is standard with a yeast starter. I have been using 100 g of flour, and 120 or so g of water. It easily doubles in size.
One is based on kombucha. Found out it is best to use the sludge in the bottom of the bottle rather than just the liquid. Again, using 100 g of flour and 120 or so g of kombucha. It takes maybe 2 days for the poolish to raise 30 to 50%. I feed it more flour and water, in about the same ratio. It never raises more than 50% and smells very sour. My guess is that it is rather acidic and that is why it never raises much.
The third jar is a mix of maybe 25% kombucha poolish, and 75% standard poolish. This is the one I prefer to bake with. I just like the taste better. This will raise to almost double, and seems to vary.
I am guessing that even though I start with the poolish, I end up with a sour dough starter... I do seem to need to add more yeast to get the full rise. At present, I am autolising, and doing the over night ferment in the fridge. I keep progressing to higher hydration levels, but never know exactly what my hydration ratio is. Kind of wonder if the moisture meters that are used in wood shops would work on dough????
I am learning to have a preference for a specific 'feel' of the dough... Now, I need to build an outdoor oven......
Oh, there are several videos about making sour dough starter using kombucha. Any yeast, apparently can be used, including brewer's yeast, and/or the sludge from the bottom of a bottle of home brew?. Kimchi? Nutritional yeast? Sour kraut?
This is similar to how I maintain my starter. However mine requires way more time.
I pour 100ml of boiling water into 1 tbsp flour. Let it cool then add 1 tbsp starter from the last batch.
In my head canon this better maintains the integrity of the starters original yeast and bacteria. 🤷♂️
Alternatively I have kept fermented porridge and taken from that to inoculate my dough.
The PH meter is really the way to go and am looking forward to a smart jar which alerts the home baker when the dough is ready.
What was your kitchen temperature during these experiments? I understand the temperature is a major factor in how quickly your starter matures.
Around 22°C
Cool. I recommend a taste test instead of a smell test for acidity.
And changing one of the four parameters produces differing results, what do you know.
The russians have an institute of bread cultures in St. Petersburg established after the famines of WW2. They catalogue the different starter cultures, with accompanying yeasts and lacto-bacteria. I've seen them use a yeast-less culture that is anaerobic, stiff, warm and rye-based too - 50% hydration, kept at 38-40Cº among other things.
Generally if you change temperature, hydration, feed base or access to air you can get very different results, endless possibilities. More hydration gives you relatively more yeasts than lacto-bacteria, so more lift and less acid.
I have a liquid (really, like beer, kept at 18-28Cº) banana starter, a semolina starter (stiff, 50% hydration, at 12-16Cº), a full rye starter (100% hydration, 4-8Cº) and some times some others are transiently here for my enjoyment. Keep on experimenting.
Cheers!
Got to get myself a ph meter, id love to get down to that level and start striving for some consistency. Great video as always
He is using a solid food pH meter. They pretty spendy, though I'd love to have one as well. I have a liquid pH meter from the same brand as his, and it is very reliable.
@@Nathaniel_Peterson ill check out their range of meters then, thanks very much
Good ones are expensive. If you want to get a less precise (but cheap) idea of your starter ph, you could always try the strips of close measurement paper, often used for kombucha and other fermented products. They are normally accurate incrementally to around 0.5 ph, which is still somewhat useful.
@@markparker5585 ill definitely check those out too before i take the plunge for a meter. Thanks very much
Yep. The only downside of this approach that it is so pricey 😥
Dear Hendrik, thank you for experimenting! I will definitely add more water into my starter as I always find it too dry with the 1:1 ratio. Chüß :)
Wonderful! You just need to be careful with the main recipe, to not add too much water.
@@the_bread_code yes, true, I will need to recalculate that. I made my last one at 70%, but it was too tough so I added another 5% to make it 75%. It came out perfect.
Nice experiment! This shows how amazing Microbiology is :) keep on experimenting!
Never tried sourdough as I live in the tropics and am afraid of mould contamination. Might try this though, looks so simple! Thanks!
The moment you have your starter you should no longer have any mould :-)
I live in the tropics too.
And I've successfully made 3 starters back in 2019.
Although i love your PH meter to measure how far along the fermentation is, i would love to see someone measure it by how much gas is produced.
Im sure you’ve seen videos/pictures of people putting a plastic/latex glove on their starter jar that then blows up as the starter ferments.
It would be a very fun and camera friendly/views garnering method to have 3-5 jars with the exact same amount of starter, same amount of flour, but different levels of hydration blow up their bag/glove in a time lapse.
A lid with a jar with a valve that measures gas output would be the ultimate geek tool, which would rival the lid with the camera that measures starter expansion in accuracy.
😂 great idea. I agree 🙏🏻
Love your work & your charm. ☺Thank you...I will be making my own starter.
Excellent video! Busted the myth!! A must try!!
Thanks
@@the_bread_code I didn’t waste time, already started it! Thank you!
I know this is from a year ago. My question is if you have another more recent video about if you prefer this high hydration starter or the stiff starter? I’m having issues figuring out my stiff starter. I think I must be making it too stiff because the top dries out forming a crust that keeps the moist starter underneath from rising. I’m just beginning to learn and very much enjoy your videos.
Fantastic. I started making a starter three days ago following the instructions of the Wild Sourdough Project (North Carolina State University Public Science Lab). But their's takes up two weeks! So I started one today using your technique. I wonder which one will win? :) Looking forward to making your no knead sourdough bread in less than a week from now!
I would probably mix both methods. At day 3 or so I would give my starter another feeding. But I recommend to keep the hydration high :-)
for sure i will try it!!!!!! thanks for sharing
Please do!
Thanks for sharing 🎉🎉🎉
I just start to make sourdough
Love your vedio❤❤❤❤
Are you able to share of us one of your recipe using the stand mixer I have Kenwood mixer and I've tried few recipe from you or others but it was big success,🙏🏼🙏🏼
Will do! I'll soon release a recipe :-)
@@the_bread_code thank you very much
U are genius! Keep up yr gd work n share with us. Thank you
Hi Henrik, loved the science behind your experiment! Interesting note on the brewery location and its relationship to the bakery and their starter. 😅
Here’s my story: When I was given my first starter, it was pretty tired and inactive. I fed it constantly without much to show for. I was about to toss it. One day I got tired and I gave it Oktoberfest beer 🍺 instead of water and guess what? It loved it! That’s now my favorite starter! (I have 4 in the rotation). It smells wonderful and works beautifully! I’ve had it for almost a year now. 😊.
Are you going to try to make this into another experiment ? 🤩
Wow! So it had to be really real beer?
@@helenjohnson7583 i don’t know, but it sure worked! 😊
this is CRAZY interesting! but wait a minute. how is the baking schedule using this liquid starter!?
Hi, i love your tutorials! Could you make a tutorial about how to use and maintaine a ph meter?
Yes! Coming out very soon!
This is so much easier! I will try it😅
Not sure if I missed this or not..you set up the liquid starter and then did NOT feed it over the next 2 days?
Might sound a little crazy, but I wonder what difference it would make if the starter were actively aerated with an aquarium air pump and air stone. Much more activity from obligate aerobes would be my guess. When we alter oxygen concentration, we should be growing different kinds of organisms. What kind of bread would it make? Might be time for another experiment!
It doesn’t sound crazy. When I make beer at home I either shake the fermenter or put a rotary drill-powered stirrer in the mixture to aerate the liquid before adding the yeast in. This puts more oxygen into the mixture, which helps the yeast do its job. Shaking the liquid sourdough starter is definitely worth a try worth a try by the same logic.
Great idea for an experiment!
You are always pushing the envelope and I love it. I'm certainly going to try this entire recipe from starter to baking. I take that you have adjusted the hydration of the final mix so it's not to sticky?
Great comment. Yep, that is correct. So I do use less hydration for the main dough. That way the extra hydration is not causing a headache.
@@the_bread_code well I tried it and I had great success
one day after making the liquid starter it already had bubbles and smell like yoghurt. Fermented dairy, pretty interesting, i gave another feed and will try to bake with it tomorrow
100 points for the pronunciation and 150 points for a great video full of humor. Gryffindor wins!
I made a sourdough pan loaf yesterday using your "revolutionary" watered-down starter. Here's how I did it.
I took 5 grams of my well-established starter, usually fed with whole rye flour. It had been unfed in the fridge for a week.
Added 25 grams of rye flour and 50 grams of water. Let it develop to max, and fall back down again.
Took 10 grams of the resulting starter and added it to 30 grams of rye flour and 6o grams of water. Let if ferment overnight. I could tell it had risen to more than double, but by morning it was back down to a lower level. I used 100 grams of this as my levain. In my recipe that is 14% baker's percentage.
I added this to an 80% whole wheat, 20% unbleached flour loaf mix with 5 grams of diastatic malt powder. Water to 75% hydration, 2% salt.
It took 9 hours to ferment during which it rose 66%. I patted it down, shaped the pan loaf, stitched the bottom seam, and let it proof for 2.5 hours. When it felt soft in the finger poke test I slashed and baked it.
Wow! I could have let it proof longer! It pushed up through the top of the loaf with an ear on each side. And it tastes great! Very tangy and delicious! This was a success!
Thanks for this tip, and all the other things I've learned from your videos.
Hey Hendrik, when making beer we often add yeast nutrients- a mixture of minerals and such - to encourage yeast growth and development, have you ever used them in a bread dough or starter? It would be interesting to see if it made any difference to the speed of activation or flavour. Also if it help I think Amylase is pronounced amilāze Short I long a and Protease is pronounced prōtāze long o long a
Great comment. Definitely an interesting experiment to conduct. I took a note!
Excellent video !
Hi great video and informative. Can you convert an existing sourdough starter to the 2:1 ratio?
Yes!
This is very interesting! Another pure curiosity, I was wondering how the types of flours used in the Starter make differences in Gluten development, fermentation time, etc. I’ve got wheat/Spelt/Rye starter (maybe I just needed one but I wanted to do some experiments...😉) and I feel like my dough ferments better when I use different levain together.. for example, for rye+ wheat flour bread, I fed both wheat + roggen starter respectively. I felt like it worked better but I don’t know whether it really is.. do you have any ideas? :)
It should be the same. At least I don't see why it could be faster with a blend :-)
Hi Hendrik, I can't find the PH monitor model you have with the links provided above and would be grateful if you could let me know which it is please?
Tolles Video. Du bist die 2 Person, die ich bei YT gesehen habe, die sich für flüssigen Sauerteig "einsetzt". Herr Andreas Sommers spricht darüber in seinen Filmem. Ich versuche seit ca einen Monat Brot zu backen (vor allem Roggen Vollkorn, eigener Sauerteig klassich - viel Futter, viel wegschmeisse, draußen gelassen, eher dickflüssig bist wie ne Paste) und nach sehr guten Anfängen erlebe ich gerade sehr schwierige Phase. Meine Brote sehen zwar gut bis sehr gut aus, sind nicht zu fest, nicht zu rocken aber den fehlt auf jeden Fall diese typische Säuregeschmack, die schmecken sehr flach, fast mehlig und nich salzig genug obwohl ich immer ordentlich Salz dazu gebe.
I did notice that my sourdough starter got more acidic faster when it was at a higher hydration. In the beginning of my sourdough adventure my ratio was 1:1 by volume and not by mass, so it probably was around 150 % hydration. So I went the other way, lowering the hydration so I didn't have to feed it as often in between bakes.
If you have higher hydration, once (or a little before) your starter peaks, put it into the fridge and it should stay "active" for a lot longer
Great point. Also thanks @David - great comment too. I think that's because the stiffer your starter, the less active it is.
@@David-we3sb I mean, sure, but that would mess with the dough temperature and affect bulk fermentation times. Maybe it's a good tip if you live in a hot climate, but I don't.
Basically a yeast water approach with flower instead of fruits 👀😎👍
Great idea yep. You can even dry the yeast, then just add a little pinch of it every time :-)
Wow thanks for this! Like you, I don't weigh my feeds anymore - I do like a 5 g seed: 25 g flour and around 25 g water for a 24 hour room temp feed each day. I do find - and would love your thoughts - that in the hot and humid summer months, I actually have to lower the hydration a little to keep a healthy starter. I wonder what the science is behind that?? :) Thanks for what you do and share - so much fun!
Awesome Information here!!! Love this and will try it !!!
If you want to create an environment for the yeast and bacteria to multiply, turn the lights down low and put on some romantic music. 😉
👍😊
Great idea for an experiment 🤣
Barry White.
Oh yeah baby....
Myth busters did this with plants.
Great video and approach. Thank you and nice job on your production style. subbed
Valuable information. Thank you!! 🎉
Where DO i obtain a Bread Cutting Board LIKE THAT ? ! ALL Natural and that SHAPE! I NEED THAT!
I'm trying this technique! 👍
no feeding it will only take two or three days? what temp is necessary for the starter? 72 to 80 degrees F? I have tried this before ....i will try again ...i love the lazy approach so much . i appreciate YOU