Top Down Mixing - What's That All About Then?!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 104

  • @mattgoodtube
    @mattgoodtube 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    "Mix Using Arrangement" is something I should have tattooed on my body. The best mixing advice I've heard on youtube, probably ever.

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thats what im learning. And some EQ of course.

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Where everything fits accordingly within the sonic spectrum

    • @TravisHY
      @TravisHY 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I would also add to that: Pre-production is KING.

  • @latheofheaven1017
    @latheofheaven1017 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Top Down Mixing = Cooking by starting with herbs and spices, and then adding main ingredients until it tastes good.

  • @fortheoneswhocare
    @fortheoneswhocare 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I'll just start pointing your channel to people instead of loosing my time explaining things 1000 times !! :D Thanks guys !
    Just today I received not 1 not 2 not 3 but 4 different Top Down mixes to master and... well, you know...

  • @elkolo2857
    @elkolo2857 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    After watching this video i went back to a mix and did a level matched comparison between the processed mixbus and the unprocessed one. The unprocessed one sounded much better, i did way too much compression, too much eq, too much saturarion. The fact that it was louder made me think i was doing something good everytime i added a new plugin -_-
    Anyways, today is a good reminder that i have to level match and a/b stuff more frequently!

  • @Superdelphinus
    @Superdelphinus 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Isotope has a great video that goes into depth on some of these things. I guess I was lucky and watched stuff like that early on rather than anything on top down mixing. The izotope video had a mix engineer walk through how he mixes ‘musically’ and the steps were really similar to this - e.g. first step is just listening and trying to understand what the song is doing, what’s it trying to be, where’s it exciting, what’s really good about it etc, then the next step was just to adjust faders until you have a rough mix that sounds good and is starting to get the song towards the notes from that first step (a theme was to keep going back to the beginning). I think after that it was a bit of volume automation and only then was it starting to think about plugins - and after every pass with a set of plugins, go back and check against the mix that’s just based on faders and make sure it’s actually better. I’m very far from an experienced or professional mixer, but I find this a really enjoyable way to mix music, partly because it just feels like an extension of the creative process rather than suddenly getting all techy and nerdy and having to have a degree in physics to understand what anything is doing!

  • @RaviRomana
    @RaviRomana 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I remember someone told me - "produce/record like you're not going to mix it and mix like you're not going to master it.".
    Try to make the song sound the best during mixing process and often you'll find out that you don't even need anything else on your master bus other than a limiter.
    So slapping a whole mastering chain before even mixing a song doesn't make any sense at all.
    PS: I mix into a limiter but that's it, JUST A LIMITER and that approach has worked for me on more than a hundred of client mixes.
    Even that limiter and settings are carefully chosen after creating a rough mix. And because I master 90% of my mixes myself, it makes a little more sense

  • @NicStride
    @NicStride 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I've tried top down mixing with varying degrees of success.
    [TLDR; There's a time and a place, but it's not always the answer]
    Once I'm well under way on a production/arrangement, I'll usually slap either a 33609 or SSL G bus comp on the mix bus. I like having a reasonable volume so I know vaguely what it should be sounding like, but I want very little compression. I do however want my attack and release in the ball park, because it's going to effect performances and how I do my rides in the mix. (I tend to strip my mixbus and start from scratch once I've finished and am going to give mastering a go, just to psychologically refresh my pallet and try everything new and not be constrained.)
    I see people hitting -3db on the top down compression from the start of a mix, and I don't understand how these people don't fight their compressor when they do rides/EQ adjustments, but hey.
    I tend to frequently turn the compressor off/on every 5-10mins and work with/without so I know I'm not being lied to.
    In the last couple of weeks I've tried mixing from busses, before diving into the individual instruments, and, sometimes it works (If the arrangement is simple and you're using sample drums, for example, shaping that bus might get you 80% of the way there) and other times, it's really, really a shambles.
    I think I've resolved to find a middle ground of "Is this a problem with a specific track, or is it a balance thing?" - So for example, if a snare is ringing, don't try adjusting the bus in a top down way. It's a waste of time. Go directly to the source. If a kit is too dark/bright, throwing a pultec or something on the bus and tackling that from the top down makes perfect sense, but defaulting to that method seems like it's definitely going to cause issues for a lot of mixing noobs, like myself. :)
    I like the old school method of mixing with nothing on the bus(es), but I have found that a 33609, for example, has an EQ thing to it, that if I slap it on at the end I might think "If I knew it was gonna do that, I wouldn't have accented these frequencies. Now it's kinda too detailed.." and that gets me going back and second guessing, which ruins creativity.
    Sorry for the long ramble but the topic has been on my mind. Great advice and video as usual, guys! :D

  • @billysmart6825
    @billysmart6825 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I use a top down approach for setting levels. I start with all tracks at unity gain. First I turn down the instrumental bus to get the correct volume balance between the vocals and instrumental mix, since that is the most important volume relationship. Then I continue turning down other elements, mostly by the bus until the overall volume balance comes together. I find this to be far more effective than building the mix from the bottom up (such as starting with kick, snare, bass, etc). The top down approach ensures proper headroom/gain staging and takes a lot of the 'over thinking' out of the equation, since from the start you are only making volume adjustments to fix problems. Not building the mix from scratch.

  • @biggestelk
    @biggestelk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Not to be confused with a 'Flop Down' mix, of course...

  • @ThePlanarchist
    @ThePlanarchist 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent of course.
    I have always suspected this and been nervous of top down mixing as it didn't seem to make sense despite what some interweb people are still saying.
    Cheers for being the light in the darkness etc, etc.

  • @RaviRomana
    @RaviRomana 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I do use a limiter on my master bus while mixing(after creating a rough mix) I don't know or even care if this approach is right or not because it's working for me from quite some time. But I'm talking about some amount of limiting, that's it and even that limiter and settings are chosen depending on the song. The top down approach or slapping a full chain on the master bus is just crazy and stupid.
    I remember someone told me - "produce/record like you're not going to mix it and mix like you're not going to master it.".
    Try to make the song sound the best during mixing process and often you'll find out that you don't even need anything else on your master bus other than a limiter.

  • @mgmg116
    @mgmg116 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never start with plugins on my master bus, but what I WILL do, is load up some compression, limiting, maybe a little bit of multiband compression, and as I go about my mix, I'll A/B and check how the mix changes under the master bus processing, and then I'll disable it and go back and re-adjust my levels with that master bus sound in mind, and work till the mix sounds good.
    I'll keep going back and checking numerous stages at various stages in the mix, and usually, by the time my mix is finished, it sounds great both with AND without the bus processing.
    I can then bounce my mix as-is, and then I can bounce it with the bus processing for use as an effective test master for reference, and from there I'll decide if I want to hand it off to a mastering engineer or do it myself

  • @michaeltablet8577
    @michaeltablet8577 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's like cooking. If the first thing you put in the bowl is a whole cup of black pepper everything will taste like pepper. Even if you are making banana pudding.

  • @troeteimarsch
    @troeteimarsch 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I do put some analog color on my master bus, like Kazrog True Iron, Saturn 2, a Neve 1073 emulation, or some tape plugin. I do believe that it makes mixing easier because problematic frequencies become more obvious due to harmonic distortion, even on less than ideal monitoring systems.

  • @JCurcio
    @JCurcio หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ive found some benefit in top down mixing, but take a very less is more approach to it until the later stages of the process (and A/B it sometimes throughout, always).

  • @mjklein
    @mjklein 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That's how I mix. I have an exciter on the 2 mix all the time. But, I was a producer in Boston with about 500 mixes on 2" analog. So, yeah I'm not just starting out.

  • @almightytreegod
    @almightytreegod 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes! Sometimes I’ll get a basic mix, then slap space designer (subtly), ozone, and an EQ that kills all but the midrange on the mix bus, but they only get enabled momentarily as a morale boost and for reference, basically just to A/B them.

  • @M.Holland
    @M.Holland 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love top down mixing. Using a SSL G-bus computer, a pultec eq and a tape Maschine. But all of them are barely working. Just give the mix a slight colouration. Before I do anything on my master bus, i do a rough mix, and try to gainstage everything properly.
    I don’t use any kind of limiter when i mix.
    My end result is a dynamic mix, with enough headroom for mastering, but still sounding way better then without my stuff on the mixbus.

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Similiar to what I do. I use acustica nebula 4 comps, tape saturations ,eq to add a little boost in the top end and other tools. Mix and match depending on the song. Im not an expert by the way. Just testing things.

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good to knock off that overall edge as well. To smooth out the transients a little.

  • @the_newvoice
    @the_newvoice 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I always master a mix before i master a mix :)

  • @timbeaton5045
    @timbeaton5045 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    STEP 3....Alt Remix version:- "We'll fix it in post"
    Yep. Having worked at the BBC in the sound department, i have heard this said on several occasions. Usually followed by groans from those who have to deal with it.
    Basically if you can't get a simple mix (as detailed in your step 3) to work, then you've done something wrong. And mixing into a massic chain of compressors/limiters/etc etc is like slathering a dodgy brick wall with masses of render, in the hope that it will cover up the imperfections.
    Short answer. It won't.

  • @onemanband3579
    @onemanband3579 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The only time I put anything in the master channel is for mastering. I always assumed that was the way to go.

    • @PresentDayProduction
      @PresentDayProduction  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That’s the traditional way, and still the best!

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PresentDayProduction that’s a matter of opinion. I’ve done both and for me I prefer to mix as I go along and mix using top down mixing. I’ve gotten to the stage that I can do both and my approach ensures that I have a good mix with or without the bus processing. To tout yours as the best is really ignorant. Because to do that requires a proper study. It’s just your opinion which is fine. For me neither is better as it depends on a lot of variable factors that I really can’t go into now.

    • @onemanband3579
      @onemanband3579 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea Ignorant? Rather rude of you sir.

  • @furiobisotti8150
    @furiobisotti8150 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I am such a beginner in producing (at the end I am only a bad keyboard player) that I didn't know anything about top down mixing.
    From my point of view it is a stupid way to work. I like mixing, it is becoming a step of my composing. And it's fun too.
    Mastering (compressing, limiting, leveling) comes naturally much later.

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s not a stupid way to work. Sorry but you really don’t know what you’re talking about. If you do it properly it’s a brilliant way to work and it’s a logical way to work for people making electronic music especially when you want to achieve a certain sound. Perhaps you should take time to listen from those who do to instead of using confirmation bias to entrench your position.

    • @furiobisotti8150
      @furiobisotti8150 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kehindea I wrote it clearly. I am such a beginner....

    • @paulricketts10
      @paulricketts10 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea If it works for you great! There are 'NO RULES!'

  • @GingerDrums
    @GingerDrums 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Linear processing like EQ is the only thing I do top down. If the whole mix is too bright or dark this saves me from applying that correction to each individual channel.

  • @TomJarane
    @TomJarane 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. Thanks

  • @Gongtopia
    @Gongtopia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Solid advice as always!

  • @heavymetalmixer91
    @heavymetalmixer91 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I always do the top down mixing AFTER the Static Mix, I don't want plugins on the mixbus to lie to me about the fader balance.

  • @tristanishtar8906
    @tristanishtar8906 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great advice!

  • @LDdrums20
    @LDdrums20 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Agreed!

  • @grantharlow
    @grantharlow 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I frequently do this and on one occasion had a collaborator ask, “this mix sounds great! What did you do different?!” ..and… I didn’t have anything in the master bus. It was meant to be a quick rough mix, just using volume / panning but.. apparently sounded better than the mixes I was sending using expensive plugins. Oh well. Money well spent..

  • @tecraven
    @tecraven 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice one. Loved this video!

  • @iamALPA
    @iamALPA 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    🙏 This video really helped clarify things in the best way to me! Hoping to get our first single over to you before Christmas for a test master. And as always: Re-Mark-Able!

  • @twitchbook-1
    @twitchbook-1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cheers

  • @jorykevinberger7047
    @jorykevinberger7047 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I loved this video, and want to share it to some fb groups. But I think it's important to recognize that the example you showed was NOT top down mixing, it was top down mastering a mix. Meaning. There's a difference between faders up, getting a balance and then implementing 1-2db of cohesive bus compression into a console and tape that we mix into, versus slapping a limiter (or many) in order to purposefully get the mix to a loud and finished result all on the mixbus. I think honestly, this is where people get the most confused because they assume "master" bus means "mastering" processes. When in reality in the mix, the master bus is to me, the mixbus. And I don't use a limiter on the mix. I would use different tool sets for mastering.
    The fellow did one really smart thing. He sent it to you to be mastered, and you were generous enough to teach him about mixing. When what he did and didn't realize it was not mix, he went straight to mastering for loudness. I think there's a difference, but I think I agree with your philosophy for beginners. Better for them to learn how to judge individual elements first. Top down after that will either come more naturally or not, and by then it won't matter, they'll be good at what they do regardless of the workflow. Cheers. :)

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I mostly agree with what you’re saying but I’m different in that for me everything to do with music is an art and as such the artist really needs to get in the trenches and learn all aspects thereof properly. You see all of these approaches have their pros and cons. In the modern world traditional mixing does not work. Of course the traditionalists have come out of the woodwork fighting by slagging off digital in an endless onslaught which ends up stifling development. We are now going back to Egypt so to speak in the good old days of analogue consoles etc FORGETTING why we moved from it in the first place. For me I love getting involved in my song from start to finish from composition to mastering after all at the end of the day a good mix masters itself and requires very little additional processing. Mastering had become an industry today due to bad mixing practices (been there worn the t-shirt) and a new cottage industry of self appointed mastering experts. I started making music when vinyl was king and you had to get it mastered but guess what you had the option of going to the mastering house and attending the mastering session. Oh boy I had the best mastering engineer and he was telling me everything he was doing and why. I learned a lot from him. Mastering went digital around the same time and a lot of new mastering engineers came out and new mastering philosophies came with them. Look I will never forget this. The loudness war madness was instigated by professional mastering engineers. They are not perfect but each new wave of audio engineering brings new ideas and top down mixing is another

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yep Jory, the amount of people who say mastering when they're talking about mixing seems to be ramping up again. The problem is no matter how gently it's put people get upset at being corrected.

    • @paulricketts10
      @paulricketts10 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea I sort of agree with this as I started in the analogy era. I'd add that music genre is important. If you're a guitar/drums four piece combo I wouldn't ignore every recording convention before 2021. But if you do and it makes you happy, then go ahead.

  • @jamespatrick8145
    @jamespatrick8145 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. I’m in the middle of an extensive mixing Boot Camp right now and heard about this top down mixing, wondered if I could bypass all my learning and create good mixes. Sounds like that would be a bad plan and I should stick to the details.

  • @emiel333
    @emiel333 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video.

  • @evertschut
    @evertschut 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great advice! I tend to slap on Ozone on my mixbus while mixing. No heavy handed settings, but still..... I'll leave the mixbus Fx chain off during rendering of the mix, so it won't be crushed and leave 6 dB headroom. But I understand now that it makes me think my mix is better than it actually is while mixing. Thanks for pointing that out Mark. Your comments about changing arrangements if instruments clash are also very valid (certainly for myself). I'm a singer songwriter wo starts out with just a guitar and vocals, and ends up with a very full mix, with bass, drums, percussion, more guitars, several keys and perhaps even strings and brass..... Why? because I can and I love the possibilities of the digital world has to offer. But deep down I know I could probably do a lot better with a much more sparse arrangement......

  • @jamiepond
    @jamiepond 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Quality video. As always!

  • @axilleas
    @axilleas 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great explanation! Thank you!!!

  • @tonybeatbutcher
    @tonybeatbutcher 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I always "create" in a topdown setup (master channel), but mixing never, I pull off everything and than adjust the volumes, panning, etc...

  • @allen394
    @allen394 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well said Mark. For some this maybe uncomfortable but those that are wise will totally agree with you. Sound.advice and for free! Thank you for your always informative videos.

  • @peterbrandt7911
    @peterbrandt7911 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You heard two of my mixes so far and I just apply a slight compression on the mixbus. And I mean slight. 1-2db (3db at max) of gain reduction and a ratio of 1.5. to 2. I like to sidechain at 90 to 110Hz. I do not apply eq, because I like you to have all opportunities.
    Please let me know, if you ever think I destroyed a mix doing so.
    Keep up your amazing work!

    • @PresentDayProduction
      @PresentDayProduction  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Don’t worry Peter, I’d always let you know! Light compression in your case if fine, but you never overcook anything, there are always plenty of dynamics left and that’s so important! Keep up the great work 👍

    • @peterbrandt7911
      @peterbrandt7911 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@PresentDayProduction That's reassuring and thank you for your kind words :).

  • @thegroove2000
    @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I use it and works a treat. Depends on your set up.

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I use it set the scene and tone. Still mixing each track accordingly and applying what ever is needed.

  • @Herfinnur
    @Herfinnur ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That song at the end is great! Where can I hear the rest of it?

    • @PresentDayProduction
      @PresentDayProduction  ปีที่แล้ว

      Cheers! You can find it here on EpidemicSound: www.epidemicsound.com/track/ti8KsgqrEl/
      That's where we get all the music for our content, but it's all commercially available music on regular streaming platforms, which is awesome! Here is the link to this specific song on all the platforms:
      Spotify: link.epidemicsound.com/artist-victor-lundberg/spotify?_gl=1*qi1dk7*_ga*MTQyMzMwNDg3OS4xNjg5MTcwNjIy*_ga_7XDDGX4GBV*MTY4OTE3MDYyMS4xLjEuMTY4OTE3MDY1NS4zNS4wLjA.*_fplc*bzc2Q1VVcHFoSTFrMjdJcU5rd285ckJ0eFQ3M2g4VEx2YjY2cVU2JTJGWkVTeWxoeTRmeG9DRk0yJTJCZmlqY0RDOEZjRHZjJTJCbjQ5T0ZRajdxbDd1UVlmTko4bVRxVUFIdHRHaGllUERzWDAlMkZ0eGNqb2dlZlJFd0ZQM0E2bnlSTnclM0QlM0Q.
      Apple Music: link.epidemicsound.com/artist-victor-lundberg/applemusic?_gl=1*1gzk1o5*_ga*MTQyMzMwNDg3OS4xNjg5MTcwNjIy*_ga_7XDDGX4GBV*MTY4OTE3MDYyMS4xLjEuMTY4OTE3MDY1NS4zNS4wLjA.*_fplc*bzc2Q1VVcHFoSTFrMjdJcU5rd285ckJ0eFQ3M2g4VEx2YjY2cVU2JTJGWkVTeWxoeTRmeG9DRk0yJTJCZmlqY0RDOEZjRHZjJTJCbjQ5T0ZRajdxbDd1UVlmTko4bVRxVUFIdHRHaGllUERzWDAlMkZ0eGNqb2dlZlJFd0ZQM0E2bnlSTnclM0QlM0Q.
      Amazon Music: link.epidemicsound.com/artist-victor-lundberg/amazonmusic?_gl=1*1gzk1o5*_ga*MTQyMzMwNDg3OS4xNjg5MTcwNjIy*_ga_7XDDGX4GBV*MTY4OTE3MDYyMS4xLjEuMTY4OTE3MDY1NS4zNS4wLjA.*_fplc*bzc2Q1VVcHFoSTFrMjdJcU5rd285ckJ0eFQ3M2g4VEx2YjY2cVU2JTJGWkVTeWxoeTRmeG9DRk0yJTJCZmlqY0RDOEZjRHZjJTJCbjQ5T0ZRajdxbDd1UVlmTko4bVRxVUFIdHRHaGllUERzWDAlMkZ0eGNqb2dlZlJFd0ZQM0E2bnlSTnclM0QlM0Q.
      Deezer: link.epidemicsound.com/artist-victor-lundberg/deezer?_gl=1*1gzk1o5*_ga*MTQyMzMwNDg3OS4xNjg5MTcwNjIy*_ga_7XDDGX4GBV*MTY4OTE3MDYyMS4xLjEuMTY4OTE3MDY1NS4zNS4wLjA.*_fplc*bzc2Q1VVcHFoSTFrMjdJcU5rd285ckJ0eFQ3M2g4VEx2YjY2cVU2JTJGWkVTeWxoeTRmeG9DRk0yJTJCZmlqY0RDOEZjRHZjJTJCbjQ5T0ZRajdxbDd1UVlmTko4bVRxVUFIdHRHaGllUERzWDAlMkZ0eGNqb2dlZlJFd0ZQM0E2bnlSTnclM0QlM0Q.

  • @marcpinion
    @marcpinion 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic thanks

  • @sekritskworl-sekrit_studios
    @sekritskworl-sekrit_studios 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Uncanny timing... I search today on the 2nd, and you've posted on the 1st.

  • @matt_nyc_audioengineer
    @matt_nyc_audioengineer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great vid Mark! I agree! I use top down mixing but I have been a professional audio engineer for almost 10 years. Beginners should not be worried about top down mixing util they can constantly get good mixes without it.

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And people should not record any instrument until they have a degree of music. Lol

    • @matt_nyc_audioengineer
      @matt_nyc_audioengineer 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea HAHAHAHAHA!!! We all can dream............. :D

  • @Juan_lauda
    @Juan_lauda 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can we have a video on Top Off mixing?

  • @murat_buyuk
    @murat_buyuk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I find top down mixing easier. When adding master bus processing after I set the mix, the processing didn't make it better. On the opposite. When applying channel processing (EQ, comp and such), the decision are made with the master bus processing together. But I must say, that the hardware limiter is just hitting 0.5db GR, then the tape is slightly adding its flavor (hitting about -2dB VU at the input) and finally the EQ just adds a touch (up to 1dB boost) of low and high end. It's impossible to hit that chain so it's crushed as hell with the master fader at 0, at least with normal gain structures throughout. If I raise the master fader to +10dB I get hellish distortion of course. But whoTF has the master fader at +10dB anyway?!? I always setup the chain before I start mixing, so it's "calibrated" correctly. After a rough mix (only volume, pan and some reverb), I do a quick comparison with the master fader. Lower it a bit, raise it a bit and check, what sounds best with the song. Maybe change the tape speed, or use another tape. After that the detailed work on the mix begins. Then I find it easier to do a top down mix, rather than plugging in some master processing afterwards. I guess if you produce and mix for over 20 years, it's easier to apply this. (Disclaimer: This only works, if the instrument arrangement is done well and the instruments are recorded well)

  • @unclemick-synths
    @unclemick-synths 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I tried top down a couple of times but it didn't do anything for me so I stuck with the way I've always worked.

  • @curtisburns
    @curtisburns 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    “Top Down” processing makes sense, but that process shouldn’t happen at the start of a Mix, and the processing applied should be SUBTLE tone shaping, not big broad moves.
    I use multi bus template implementing a Scheps meets Brauer style approach.
    All Audio tracks feed into Instrument Group Busses that have compressors calibrated to give 1db gain reduction with a 1kHz tone at -18db, those Instrument Busses then feed into a Main Mix Bus compressor doing 0db gain reduction.
    I don’t turn any of it on until I’ve got a well balance volume and panning mix happening.
    Once I’ve got the compressors I want to use turned on, and my attack and release times set, I’ll apply a tiny amount of eq to the Main Mix Bus, pull all the audio tracks down to zero and rebalance the mix.
    Then I’m free to address individual tracks as necessary, and I haven’t accidentally painted myself into a corner.

    • @mjklein
      @mjklein 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I worry with I hear such specific specs on things like mixbuses, when 1 size does not fit all. It's like saying "I start all my recipes with a cup of cayenne pepper."

    • @curtisburns
      @curtisburns 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mjklein Like I said, I don’t start turning things on until the Mix sounds good. And because the compressors are calibrated I’m ensuring I’m not being fooled by volume increases.
      At every step I’m relying on my ears first.

  • @okay1904
    @okay1904 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The most authentic and best audio engineering channel on Utube. I value this advice highly. Thanks

  • @cornerliston
    @cornerliston 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    2: If possible, never do the final mix of your own songs.
    2.2: IF you mix your own song, make sure you have some honest friends or people in network (that actually knows what they are talking about) to give some feedback.
    Writing and production is one certain and very difficult skill.
    Mixing is another and equally difficult skill to master.
    Unfortunately I don't master any of the above but maybe I'll come close one day : )

  • @AnteroJokinen
    @AnteroJokinen 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love top down mixing! But yes, you should always have a great song/arrangement and balance before adding stuff to your mix bus. And top down mixing is not for beginners. I started to do top down mixing after 2-3 years of mixing.

    • @AnteroJokinen
      @AnteroJokinen 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I also must say that I usually do top down mixing with metal and rock music. But not always. With lighter stuff like orchestral music or pop, I often don't do top down.

  • @PurpleMusicProductions
    @PurpleMusicProductions 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Definitely agree with the content of the video, however I would not use "Grammy Awards" as a credential or testament, because often it is political and honestly today's music well....but your overall point is spot on.

  • @BunkerAudioPanama
    @BunkerAudioPanama 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I personally just put a ssl bud comp ever so slightly and that’s about it. Works nice and feels very good for the “pep” during the mix but that’s about it. Zero eq, I feel that would be terribly counterproductive.

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Got to EQ. Who ever can get away with not eqing and creates well balanced fantastic mixes then I want to know how.

    • @BunkerAudioPanama
      @BunkerAudioPanama 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@thegroove2000 I’m talking explicitly about the master bus. On the rest, it’s plug-in heaven making sure I use just enough and not over process I love to toss in different flavors arias different genres just to keep the process exciting

    • @thegroove2000
      @thegroove2000 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BunkerAudioPanama Yes same here. The mix bus. Many use the top down method as I do and it works really well. Each to their own. What works for one may not work for another. Enjoy making music.

  • @piterb.5444
    @piterb.5444 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are a legend Mark! Love your content. The best audio channel in the hole fuuuuckiiing wooooorllldddd!!!! Hehehe. “And when you remove it, it falls on his ass!!!! Awesome!!!

  • @chickenlickin3820
    @chickenlickin3820 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Flop kat rules x

  • @UncleBenjs
    @UncleBenjs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The mixing course I took (one of them) taught top-down mixing, and yeah you're right, it is a bad idea. Likely a decent idea if a world-class recording engineer has recorded it and got it sounding good on the way in. Otherwise, it's just going to get poor results. After that, I went and took another course and now I'm combining what I learnt from both of them to get half-decent results. Top-down is just not useful for a lot of projects these days. I find it cool for mastering projects tho, as can get to level first, and then eq etc into the limiter, backing off the limiter as going. Works for me anyway.

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I sorry but this is ridiculous. The same argument can be levied at literally anything. Only a world class mix engineer can truly mix a record and screw everyone else? Sorry but I’d hardly call Present Day Productions world class mixers (no offence), but does that mean what they say or do is rubbish? Of course not. We are living in a confrontational society that wants to fight every opposing thought and push their ideal as the best. This has infiltrated the online audio world. Instead of respecting people and basically just teaching your own methods you have to now for click bait purposes make provocative videos rubbishing a practice or theory that you don’t like. It’s crazy.

    • @paulricketts10
      @paulricketts10 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea Of course one of the signifiers of the 'confrontational society' is 'rubbishing a practice or theory that you don't like...' Which is of course what you have just done. PDP have an opinion and you don't have to like it, but they might be slightly more informed than you - or me even. Bringing in 'culture war' arguments don't make you right.

  • @CheapoCardCompany
    @CheapoCardCompany 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If a mastering engineer’s fresh listen is indeed worth its weight in gold... does that mean you’re all paid in massive bags of sovereigns..?
    Have you tried Bottom Up mixing... by getting convivially sozzled before you start...?
    I have tried top-down mixing (just as an experiment)... but my aging PC begins to struggle with latency if lots of powerful ‘mastering’ VSTs are running constantly, while tracking... meaning I have to disable them temporarily, which defeats the whole purpose of the approach.

    • @PresentDayProduction
      @PresentDayProduction  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bottom up mixing sounds fun… 🍾🍾🍾😂
      Honestly I don’t know how you come up with such amazing comments, without fail, every time. Love it! Thanks for your support :)

  • @CharlesTsaiE
    @CharlesTsaiE 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Anyone feel Adele new song Easy On Me vocal is too distorted and overcompressed?

  • @UncleBenjs
    @UncleBenjs 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    GG

  • @UncleBenjs
    @UncleBenjs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    EASY FIRST

    • @PresentDayProduction
      @PresentDayProduction  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I saw you talking on discord and I knew you would grab this one

    • @UncleBenjs
      @UncleBenjs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PresentDayProduction hahaha

  • @raybeeger1529
    @raybeeger1529 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Top Down Mixing is important if you working in the LOUDNESS WAR Environment, NOTHING FOR NEWBEES.

  • @kehindea
    @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Should beginners do top down mixing? Why not? They can do it and compare with the traditional approach as long as they learn how to do it well. I mean you’re sneering at them ‘learning on the Internet’ when you’re one of those that people learn from on the Internet. Why should anyone listen to you? There is never one way to do anything and especially now with ITB, hybrid and all sorts of configurations, there are really no rules. Try it and learn how to do it PROPERLY from those who do it and swear by it. Also true the track you used was badly mixed but who in their right mind would have sent that for mastering? Did they not listen to it? Fair enough you may not like top down mixing it but this example is really unfair. It’s like picking and extremist to then discredit an organisation or group. As for your 5 commandments, come on man. Write a good song? Well what is a good song? Do you master only good songs? It’s so subjective it’s irrelevant in this context. Music is art at the end of the day and one can pick holes in literally every record or genre of music. Is trap music good? Many say yes and many more will say no. Same thing with arrangements. You can have a balanced arrangement or a wall of sound mesh of instruments. That’s down to your production ideals. So many experts say different things. Some will recommend you use high pass filters to create separation others say no don’t do that. The world is fed up with too many experts preaching dogmatically. By all means tell us what YOU do and why. People will learn from it but please don’t be telling us what to do. Of course you have to plug your mastering services which is fair enough but it does muddy your video a little bit. The last people who will advise or teach people how to master properly are mastering engineers. AI mastering is here to stay and will get better. Of course one can decide for themselves what mastering choices they can use. I think you have some good advice but sorry you can not and should not tell people what to do.

    • @paulricketts10
      @paulricketts10 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      You seem to be arguing with yourself. And I don't think PDP are telling you 'what to do'. It's just advice that you or I can take or ignore. Just like anyone can ignore or take your advice. Chill out and enjoy your mixing or mastering method - whatever it is.

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@paulricketts10 number one I am chill so please don’t try and gaslight me here and number 2 watch the video again. The opening question and the reply. Thanks and have a great day

    • @paulricketts10
      @paulricketts10 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea I don't want you to feel like a victim - I'm not into 'culture war' lingo. Please enjoy your day too and I'll do the same!

    • @kehindea
      @kehindea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@paulricketts10 Lol yeah nice patronising comment there. I am not a victim nor do I feel like one. If you talk shit you will be called out for it. 'Culture war lingo'. Hmm. I'll definitely be enjoying my day. It's nice and sunny and we have a holiday here in Melbourne.

    • @paulricketts10
      @paulricketts10 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kehindea 'Confrontational society' I don't like it either. So as I said before if top down mixing works for you then good. Enjoy the sunshine!