I read “On Stories” and when Lewis writes, “Let there be wicked kings and beheadings, battles and dungeons, giants and dragons, and let the villans be soundly killed at the end of the book. I think it is possible that by confining your child to the blameless stories of life in which nothing at all alarming ever happens, you would fail to banish the terrors, and would succeed in banishing all that can ennoble them or make them endurable,” it inspired the living crap out of me. I started writing my own book and now I’m writing my second in the series. Lewis has inspired me so much. Good video once again!
I liked this discussion. Its interesting to see how the defintion of sci-fi has changed over the years. I would definitely enjoy seeing more of it. (I actually really enjoyed the subjectivity vs objectivity video you guys did) When it comes to trying to understanding subspecies #5 48:49 , I focused on the phrase " Sometimes it is a postulate which liberates consequences very far from comic." To translate "A belief that makes consequences not laughable." Beleiving in something(like gods/ghouls/fairies,etc) makes it possible for the author to ground the reader and make the consequences feel real. Hopefully that makes sense.
Ruocchio would argue they're the same. One just nostalgic hence enchanting the past (most medieval fantasies especially) while the other is trying to re-enchant the future particularly his own series: Sun Eater
THIS IS SO GREAT C. S. Lewis is my favorite writer of all time, and I think he's really underappreciated, so I'm so glad you guys are talking about him. Would be so cool if you guys read and talked about his own Sci-Fi series, The Space Trilogy.
C.S. Lewis is one of my all-time favorite authors and I had never read this article by him. Glad you guys enjoyed it and hope you will check out more of his work in the future! :)
If you'd like to check out CS Lewis's books, I'd recommend Till We Have Faces. It's my favorite of his works. The story is a retelling of the Greek myth of Psyche and Cupid, kind of the first Beauty and the Beast story, but it's from the perspective of the ugly step sister who is writing a condemnation against the gods for taking her sister away from her.
It was an interesting point in time to write the essay. Sci fi was not that far removed from the pulp era (1920s and 1930s), when there was a sci fi boom but mostly in the form of short stories published in pulp magazines. During that era, a lot of writers wrote stories for every kind of pulp magazine -- sci fi, horror, detective, fantasy, adventure, romance, etc. Some of the sci fi giants came out of that era but there were also many "displaced person" stories from writers more experienced with another genre who added space ships and ray guns in order to sell a story to a sci fi pulp. I'm not sure how many of the stories were this kind of lazy writing for a buck, but clearly enough to leave a bad impression with some critics and members of the general public.
Great topic! I am a life long Sci-fi and Fantasy reader and I have actually noticed a change in what we consider a "good Magic System" now because of the blending of the two genres. I am reading the fourth book in the Stormlight Archives in preparation for the new one, and I am seeing exactly why we feel that Sanderson's magic systems work so well - they are all based in Physics, and the way the Fabrials work is pure quantum mechanics. In my eyes that makes the series much more Sci-Fantasy than just Fantasy...
That Hideous Strength is arguably Lewis's best work, its the third in his Space Trilogy, and tells the story of the gods descending onto earth. As well as fascist torture scenes and an overall unexpected brutality coming from the guy who wrote narnia. Lewis is known as a lay christian apologist (the convincer of the half-convinced) but I think he is underrated as a writer.
Great video guys, very much enjoy this format. I think Le Guin’s essay “From Elfland to Poughkeepsie” on prose in fantasy could be worthy of a future discussion, particularly considering how fantasy prose has changed since she wrote it in the seventies.
C.S. Lewis is amazing. I personally prefer his academic writings over his fiction. Both are good, but he is an amazing thinker. Currently taking a class at college on Tolkien and him 🙌🏼
I recommend reading both Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories" and Le Guin's "Escape Routes" together for one video. Also, you may find Lewis's "On Three Ways of Writing for Children" (which someone else quoted with the 'villains killed' quote in the comments) more interesting than it might sound. It has this very famous quote (which alludes to 1 Corinthians 13): "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." (P.S. I can email you copies if you can't get ahold of them.)
Thank you for the recs! If you want to email us with anything at all feel free, we enjoyed doing this episode and arent opposed to covering more essays
I think you hit on the jist of the last postulate. His focus is his enjoyment in making the impossible real and convincing. Such as, creating a whole new world which tosses most of your assumptions and comparisons of the new world to our own, such that it may be unburdened. You are correct that LOTR in there does appear to stretch what we would call ‘science’ fiction.
Reading comprehension? Never heard of her. He doesn't say fantasy and sci-fi are interchangeable; they belong to the same wider category of literature, namely speculative fiction, along with dystopia, horror, alternate history, myths, fairy tales etc., examples of which he uses for concept demonstration and comparison, not to suggest they're science fiction.
Lewis didn't consider Narnia to be an allegory, because Aslan wasn't a symbol/metaphor for Christ, he instead actually WAS Christ, as Christ might appear in a magical world with talking animals. Lewis called it a "supposal." As in "suppose there were other worlds that needed salvation; how might Christ show himself in those worlds?" In the books, Aslan straight up tells the kids that he is known in their world by another name. Someone else in the comments said it was more like a multiverse; that's a pretty good way of looking at it. The same character in different universes is not an allegory of themselves. I know it seems like a pointless differentiation, but I think a lot of people scoff like Narnia is cheesy as an allegory because the "Jesus lion" is so obvious, but Lewis intended that part to be obvious -- more like alternate history. He wasn't trying to be clever or covert. Where he did have much more hidden symbolism was in references to the seven planets of the medieval cosmos (read Michael Ward's book Planet Narnia for THAT fascinating theory).
Loved the video guys again! But i have to correct you about the moddle earth not having a conenction to earth. Middle earth is actually our earth during a different period. According to Tolkien we are currently at the 7th age of middle earth.
The fifth I think is science used as a base to create the Mythos or Fantasy. The Modern examples would be Star Trek, Pern, The Expanse. Fantasy Planetary systems and fantasy history of earth.
Andy Weir is a great example of bringing to life a few of these sub-species: Artemis - C.S. Lewis’ drivel sub-species. A very dull and common storyline delivered on the Moon for no real reason. Martian - fiction of Engineers (as you mentioned). Amazing. Project Hail Mary - this is more scientific/speculative
15:54 Doctor Who really isn't meant to be sci-fi in its plots though. The sci-fi is mostly the vehicle that brings the characters to the story of the week, and that story can fall under almost any genre
I think that Lewis was defining Sci-Fi as "our world but different" and fantasy as a totally removed world. Narnia and LotR would be sci fi because Narnia is basically a multi-verse story and LotR in world is the distant past of Earth.
Ok ok ok, I have not watched this video yet, so I cannot comment on its content, just let me say this. THIS VIDEO IS ABOUT TO BLOW MY F***ING SOCKS OFF!
Here is my favorite thing about reading...... Whenever a I finish a new book... I UNLOCK A SPOILER FILLED 2 TO RAMBLE REVIEW FOR ME TO WATCH!
I read “On Stories” and when Lewis writes, “Let there be wicked kings and beheadings, battles and dungeons, giants and dragons, and let the villans be soundly killed at the end of the book. I think it is possible that by confining your child to the blameless stories of life in which nothing at all alarming ever happens, you would fail to banish the terrors, and would succeed in banishing all that can ennoble them or make them endurable,” it inspired the living crap out of me. I started writing my own book and now I’m writing my second in the series. Lewis has inspired me so much. Good video once again!
That’s incredible!!
Well said
I saw C.S. Lewis and I clicked so fast. His essays are my favorite. His essay "On Stories" is also phenomenal.
I like this essay review format! Particularly when they are older essays, I think the distance of time allows for greater depth of conversation.
I liked this discussion. Its interesting to see how the defintion of sci-fi has changed over the years. I would definitely enjoy seeing more of it. (I actually really enjoyed the subjectivity vs objectivity video you guys did) When it comes to trying to understanding subspecies #5 48:49 , I focused on the phrase " Sometimes it is a postulate which liberates consequences very far from comic." To translate "A belief that makes consequences not laughable." Beleiving in something(like gods/ghouls/fairies,etc) makes it possible for the author to ground the reader and make the consequences feel real. Hopefully that makes sense.
Ruocchio would argue they're the same. One just nostalgic hence enchanting the past (most medieval fantasies especially) while the other is trying to re-enchant the future particularly his own series: Sun Eater
THIS IS SO GREAT C. S. Lewis is my favorite writer of all time, and I think he's really underappreciated, so I'm so glad you guys are talking about him.
Would be so cool if you guys read and talked about his own Sci-Fi series, The Space Trilogy.
Perelandra lives in my head rent free. Love, love, love those books.
C.S. Lewis is one of my all-time favorite authors and I had never read this article by him. Glad you guys enjoyed it and hope you will check out more of his work in the future! :)
If you'd like to check out CS Lewis's books, I'd recommend Till We Have Faces. It's my favorite of his works. The story is a retelling of the Greek myth of Psyche and Cupid, kind of the first Beauty and the Beast story, but it's from the perspective of the ugly step sister who is writing a condemnation against the gods for taking her sister away from her.
That sounds incredible
I second this. Till We Have Faces is a masterpiece.
I believe it was his favorite works. I've read it twice and both times got something out of it.
Keep this up. Especially with CS Lewis!
It was an interesting point in time to write the essay. Sci fi was not that far removed from the pulp era (1920s and 1930s), when there was a sci fi boom but mostly in the form of short stories published in pulp magazines. During that era, a lot of writers wrote stories for every kind of pulp magazine -- sci fi, horror, detective, fantasy, adventure, romance, etc. Some of the sci fi giants came out of that era but there were also many "displaced person" stories from writers more experienced with another genre who added space ships and ray guns in order to sell a story to a sci fi pulp. I'm not sure how many of the stories were this kind of lazy writing for a buck, but clearly enough to leave a bad impression with some critics and members of the general public.
Started with analysis of a PhD-level essay-ended with furries.
And this is why I love this channel 😂
Great topic! I am a life long Sci-fi and Fantasy reader and I have actually noticed a change in what we consider a "good Magic System" now because of the blending of the two genres. I am reading the fourth book in the Stormlight Archives in preparation for the new one, and I am seeing exactly why we feel that Sanderson's magic systems work so well - they are all based in Physics, and the way the Fabrials work is pure quantum mechanics. In my eyes that makes the series much more Sci-Fantasy than just Fantasy...
There are definitely sci-fantasy rlements in stormlight - hope you enjoy the series as much as we did
That Hideous Strength is arguably Lewis's best work, its the third in his Space Trilogy, and tells the story of the gods descending onto earth. As well as fascist torture scenes and an overall unexpected brutality coming from the guy who wrote narnia. Lewis is known as a lay christian apologist (the convincer of the half-convinced) but I think he is underrated as a writer.
Great video guys, very much enjoy this format. I think Le Guin’s essay “From Elfland to Poughkeepsie” on prose in fantasy could be worthy of a future discussion, particularly considering how fantasy prose has changed since she wrote it in the seventies.
Thankyou!! And thanks for the rec
C.S. Lewis is amazing. I personally prefer his academic writings over his fiction. Both are good, but he is an amazing thinker. Currently taking a class at college on Tolkien and him 🙌🏼
I loved it! do more regardless, if people of these want it or not!
I recommend reading both Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories" and Le Guin's "Escape Routes" together for one video.
Also, you may find Lewis's "On Three Ways of Writing for Children" (which someone else quoted with the 'villains killed' quote in the comments) more interesting than it might sound. It has this very famous quote (which alludes to 1 Corinthians 13): "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
(P.S. I can email you copies if you can't get ahold of them.)
Thank you for the recs! If you want to email us with anything at all feel free, we enjoyed doing this episode and arent opposed to covering more essays
I admire your style!
Thankya!
C.S Lewis is my favourite too clever for me. Really enjoyed this episode
Read CS Lewis’s Out of the silent planet trilogy!!!!
yes!
I think you hit on the jist of the last postulate. His focus is his enjoyment in making the impossible real and convincing. Such as, creating a whole new world which tosses most of your assumptions and comparisons of the new world to our own, such that it may be unburdened. You are correct that LOTR in there does appear to stretch what we would call ‘science’ fiction.
You guys should go over Tolkien's "On Fairy Stories."
Thankyou for the rec, will look at that!
Paying mom with hugs that's funny! Good job to Mom and her content ideas! 🎉
This was great!
Thank you!
Very fascinating topic that I think I will factor into my review of Jade City 👀
Ramble team stand up!
Reading comprehension? Never heard of her.
He doesn't say fantasy and sci-fi are interchangeable; they belong to the same wider category of literature, namely speculative fiction, along with dystopia, horror, alternate history, myths, fairy tales etc., examples of which he uses for concept demonstration and comparison, not to suggest they're science fiction.
Lewis didn't consider Narnia to be an allegory, because Aslan wasn't a symbol/metaphor for Christ, he instead actually WAS Christ, as Christ might appear in a magical world with talking animals. Lewis called it a "supposal." As in "suppose there were other worlds that needed salvation; how might Christ show himself in those worlds?" In the books, Aslan straight up tells the kids that he is known in their world by another name. Someone else in the comments said it was more like a multiverse; that's a pretty good way of looking at it. The same character in different universes is not an allegory of themselves.
I know it seems like a pointless differentiation, but I think a lot of people scoff like Narnia is cheesy as an allegory because the "Jesus lion" is so obvious, but Lewis intended that part to be obvious -- more like alternate history. He wasn't trying to be clever or covert. Where he did have much more hidden symbolism was in references to the seven planets of the medieval cosmos (read Michael Ward's book Planet Narnia for THAT fascinating theory).
I didnt know that, that makes sense - thankyou!
Loved the video guys again! But i have to correct you about the moddle earth not having a conenction to earth. Middle earth is actually our earth during a different period. According to Tolkien we are currently at the 7th age of middle earth.
The fifth I think is science used as a base to create the Mythos or Fantasy. The Modern examples would be Star Trek, Pern, The Expanse. Fantasy Planetary systems and fantasy history of earth.
Andy Weir is a great example of bringing to life a few of these sub-species:
Artemis - C.S. Lewis’ drivel sub-species. A very dull and common storyline delivered on the Moon for no real reason.
Martian - fiction of Engineers (as you mentioned). Amazing.
Project Hail Mary - this is more scientific/speculative
You should have Christopher Ruocchio on to talk about this he has a deep knowledge about this for example look at his interview with Parker’s pensees
another wonderful way to start a friday morning! meow!
2 to Drivel - coming soon from CS Lewis
Lol
Yal guys stay away from my bookshelf. I just picked up Narnia to start reading cause of the holidays. Perfect timing almost scary
As much as I hate to say the “but in space” definition is what I’ve often heard used to describe dune. It’s game of thrones but in space
Wait but Dune was first by like 40 years…?
@slidenaway yeah Ik, but that is still a comparison people use to describe dune because until recently it was much more well known
That's what makes The Book Of The New Sun so overwhelming cuz it's a batshit crazy world narrated by the most batshit crazy character lol
Thats a great pitch
Fantastic video all the way up to the end where we tried to excuse the horrendous Star Wars prequels lol
So I love sun eater, dune and now red rising. Is fire upon the deep a must read next?!
Ohhhh youd love it!
@ adding it to the list!
15:54 Doctor Who really isn't meant to be sci-fi in its plots though. The sci-fi is mostly the vehicle that brings the characters to the story of the week, and that story can fall under almost any genre
lmao, Lewis' own scifi series breaks that first rule, sub in the Planets for Kingdoms, and it could have just been Fantasy
Wow 🤯
I noticed Prince of Thorns is off the shelf... Is somebody giving it a second try? 😊
Not yet, but it’s there 😈
I think that Lewis was defining Sci-Fi as "our world but different" and fantasy as a totally removed world. Narnia and LotR would be sci fi because Narnia is basically a multi-verse story and LotR in world is the distant past of Earth.
Wasn't Arda/Middle-Earth Tolkien's mythical history of our Earth?
Ok ok ok, I have not watched this video yet, so I cannot comment on its content, just let me say this. THIS VIDEO IS ABOUT TO BLOW MY F***ING SOCKS OFF!
MY GUYS! I AM FIRST HELL YEEES!
for me star wars is definitely not sci-fi
Him
Yawn