Join UCSD's Nick Spitzer in a lively and fascinating discussion with Nobel Laureate Eric Kandel. Series: "UCSD Guestbook" [10/2003] [Science] [Show ID: 7157]
@midnight9wanderer I think you've hit it on the head: Kandel's fondness stems from personal and nostalgic reasons. Who could forget the intellectual milieu that first fired one's scientific imagination? That Freud turned out to be completely wrong on many things doesn't mean he should be ignored. It's like blaming Galen for not understanding germ theory...
@Fox843 Very true. I often feel the same sentiment when I hear Noam Chomsky rattle off a quotation or figure from a New York Times article that was published in 1961. I can only hope my long-term memory will be as good at that age -- thanks to Kandel, et al's work it might happen!
@Zeldovich Kandel was born in Vienna in a period of the twentieth century where Freudian psychoanalysis WAS considered scientific -- many family friends and others in his circle were analysts. I agree with you: it is crap, but let's keep it in perspective; those crappy ideas were refined into better ones (consider Kandel's contribution to the biological basis of memory). That doesn't make Freud worthless, it's just the nature of science. The ideas matter more than the personalities.
@sleepcity Almost everything Freud espoused as dogma (the 'mise en scene', dreams, etc) has been shown to be incorrect. His idea of the subconcious is somewhat derivative but not wholly. His idea of the 'complex' and way that psychological trauma can effect behavours are spot on as was his diagnosis of the sexual etiology of the Victorian diseases of the mind.
@colourmegone I hope you don't misinterpret the tone of my comments. I agree with everything in your comment above as well. I guess I'm not sure what you're driving at.
@colourmegone Don't get me wrong I'm not even remotely Freudian. I agree with everything you said I was merely pointing out that the popular caricature of Freud is less interesting than the history of his intellectual development and the milieu in which he was trained (Helmholtz, Brucke, Meynert, etc.)
@sleepcity Just pointing out the milieu. Freud's great ambition was to be 'Herr Doktor Doktor', a title for those persons with two doctorates, and he achieved this in an anti-Semitic society. Of course his ideas that dreams were symptomatic of mental illness, that all neurosis was caused by the 'mise en scene', that homosexuality was the result of a 'strong' mother and a 'weak' father, etc. have been shown to be false.
Re computers. Digital computers will never attain to any of the functions of a living brain. A computer is like a lever, you can use it to do a lot of useful work but only if it has a living conciousness controlling and directing it. Left to its own devices the most powerful supercomputer is simply a piece of junk burning electricity. Leave it plugged in for however long you like and it will still be exactly the same, it will neither grow nor learn nor create anything new.
@juliohopscotch More like..."Sigmund Freud, an avowed somaticist who wrote that one day a biological conception of mind would explain behavior, actually got a few things right."
What a mustache! I sometimes see Dr. Spitzer walking around campus.
@midnight9wanderer I think you've hit it on the head: Kandel's fondness stems from personal and nostalgic reasons. Who could forget the intellectual milieu that first fired one's scientific imagination? That Freud turned out to be completely wrong on many things doesn't mean he should be ignored. It's like blaming Galen for not understanding germ theory...
@Fox843 Very true. I often feel the same sentiment when I hear Noam Chomsky rattle off a quotation or figure from a New York Times article that was published in 1961. I can only hope my long-term memory will be as good at that age -- thanks to Kandel, et al's work it might happen!
@Zeldovich Kandel was born in Vienna in a period of the twentieth century where Freudian psychoanalysis WAS considered scientific -- many family friends and others in his circle were analysts. I agree with you: it is crap, but let's keep it in perspective; those crappy ideas were refined into better ones (consider Kandel's contribution to the biological basis of memory). That doesn't make Freud worthless, it's just the nature of science. The ideas matter more than the personalities.
@Fox843 See also Harold Bloom, Noam Chomsky, etc. We are lucky to be alive with these great minds. :)
@sleepcity Almost everything Freud espoused as dogma (the 'mise en scene', dreams, etc) has been shown to be incorrect. His idea of the subconcious is somewhat derivative but not wholly. His idea of the 'complex' and way that psychological trauma can effect behavours are spot on as was his diagnosis of the sexual etiology of the Victorian diseases of the mind.
@colourmegone I hope you don't misinterpret the tone of my comments. I agree with everything in your comment above as well. I guess I'm not sure what you're driving at.
@colourmegone Don't get me wrong I'm not even remotely Freudian. I agree with everything you said I was merely pointing out that the popular caricature of Freud is less interesting than the history of his intellectual development and the milieu in which he was trained (Helmholtz, Brucke, Meynert, etc.)
he looks a lot like larry david (seinfeld, curb your enthusiasm)
@sleepcity Just pointing out the milieu. Freud's great ambition was to be 'Herr Doktor Doktor', a title for those persons with two doctorates, and he achieved this in an anti-Semitic society. Of course his ideas that dreams were symptomatic of mental illness, that all neurosis was caused by the 'mise en scene', that homosexuality was the result of a 'strong' mother and a 'weak' father, etc. have been shown to be false.
Re computers. Digital computers will never attain to any of the functions of a living brain. A computer is like a lever, you can use it to do a lot of useful work but only if it has a living conciousness controlling and directing it. Left to its own devices the most powerful supercomputer is simply a piece of junk burning electricity. Leave it plugged in for however long you like and it will still be exactly the same, it will neither grow nor learn nor create anything new.
@juliohopscotch More like..."Sigmund Freud, an avowed somaticist who wrote that one day a biological conception of mind would explain behavior, actually got a few things right."
Sigmund
jajajaja su chistes ñoños