I'm so glad I found you channel. YT algo came through! Saw one of your podcasts on sidebar and every episode has been SO refreshing. This past year on my deeper journey into my faith I was reforming to a more biblical sound doctrine and some of this took me away from what my husband and I grew up in. And though I'mthe researcher of the fam and he trusts me on many things, the hubs was REALLY struggling with election when I told him I was leaning to a calvinist reading of scripture. I also am a mil, always understood 'secret rapture' was not biblical, don't understand the idolizing of a nation state which has no connection to the OT tribe and that the Antichrist power is already on earth in the form of counterfeit Christianity: the Papacy. Our current church that both my husband and FIL are in leadership is extremely dispy and the past year have realized the pastor is a Zio nist. Currently he is preaching through Rev and reading everything literally and the series is a total of 5 months! I've been feeling SO lonely but watching your vids have given me confirmation. Need a sound man for your churcn in TN? That is what the hubs does. Kidding, not kidding.
Brothers, I love you guys. But Apart from post-mil and biblical views of Theonomy, I do not see Jesus’s parable of the kingdom, parable of the mustard seed, making any sense. The mustard seed begins very small, then it grows and grows and never stops growing. What happens in the middle of that? Rain, hail, storms, dryness, good seasons and bad seasons. Tribulation, problems, sin you get the idea. BUT IT NEVER STOPS growing. That’s the KINGDOM of our Lord Jesus Christ. You would have to be very creative to twist and turn that verse upside down to reconcile it with other mil views. 🙏🏼I would be greatly honored if you responded.
The reason why Christians ought to be Reconstructionist is precisely because we don’t want to end up like China. “And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the EARTH.” Revelation 5:9-10
I appreciate your podcast. Was introduced to it through apologia who I have listened to sporadically. I definitely think you guys helped me see the trouble in being too focused on transforming the culture now and how that breeds a self righteous indignation towards the lost. Thank you… you guys are both great. Justin, you interrupted John quite a bit. Just saying 😂
Loved the discussion, guys. How would you respond to someone citing Matthew 5 when Jesus says, “You are the salt of the earth,” in regard to culture? After hearing a brother say, “Christians are called to create the culture,” I disagreed saying, “We’re called to make disciples and baptize them, not change the culture.” When he responded with Matthew 5, I really didn’t know how to respond.
It is true that believers are to be a help to the world. That doesn’t mean culture transformation is our mission. We reflect Christ in all we do, we are salt
Would not it stand to reason, if we disciple and baptize people it would have an impact on the culture, due to the fact that believers are part of the culture?
Im a 2K postmill. I believe the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as sand on the seashore, which has not happened yet. It comes by regeneration, not by any nonsense like Christian nationalism or theonomy, or us "working" to change the culture. You seem to presume a postmill view requires activity on our part, aside from simply sharing the gospel and building the church. I don't believe the culture is going to become a theocracy, but as hearts are regenerated things will shift as demand for certain kind of sins diminish (eg abortion on demand). I also don't believe that this results in some kind of hope in this world, rather a hope FOR this world, which spurs me on to loving my neighbour.
No Restorationism theology, no Prophet, no rejection of Christian history and its creeds, no works salvation, no polygamy, no female theological leadership, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
We pray your Kingdom Come your Will be done on Earth as it is in heaven, which means that it isn’t being done here. We are called to preach the Gospel and pray God bless
The millennium is where christ reigns here on earth there will be peace on earth he will reign over Israel and all the nations. So do we see that happening now? How can we be living in the millennium now?
@@Outrider74 Definitely reading it into the text. Premill is so messed up. These guys in the video are really getting it wrong. So sad for the body of Christ.
Yeah, everything I read in scripture has the kingdom coming to earth in a small and undetectable way, like a small pebble or say a mustard seed, or even a bit of leaven, but that rock grows and grows until it fills the whole earth, or the mustard seed grows into a great tree that fills the earth and all the birds of the world perch in it, and that yeast spreads and spreads until the whole loaf is leavened. Nothing at all that looks like the world in decline, then Jesus snaps his fingers and establishes a kingdom fully formed, which then declines after 1000 years into a great apostasy because not even God himself is able to manage a kingdom well.
The framing of this discussion is highly-questionable. Who is arguing that the church - which is primarily focused on Word and Sacrament and spiritual matters - has a duty to transform culture? I keep hearing the Escondido sect saying this but they provide no examples besides a kook in Idaho. Christians, OTOH, have many duties towards their countries just as they do their natural families and spiritual brothers. Some of this is not fleshed-out in the NT because the writers assumed the OT. Arguments from silence are not good arguments. I also don't understand why church history after the first through third century is inadmissible to this discussion. There have been many peoples and nations who have adopted Christianity just as there have been many families who've done the same.
@@davidwilliamson3517 And yet we don't have glorified bodies and Jesus isn't dwelling among us on a renewed Earth, so full preterism is obviously wrong and since it directly denies the historic creeds, it is heresy. Or give me Jesus's address so I can visit him.
@@andrewmattiewalter full preterism is satanic I have read some of their stuff and stuff and interacted online a little with one of the head guys. Its evil. With that said Im postmill partial preterist and theonomic. The world is waaaay better then when we were being fed to lions in Rome and most people were slaves and many other things that are gone due to Christ thru the church. And yeah things are on a decline but the over all trajectory will be postive but we will long for Christ to come back because it will stay a fallen world until HE directly defeats death
Sure, it would be wonderful to live in a time like it was during the great awakening in the 18th century, but it is not the reality of today. Not will it ever be. That is biblical realism. In every nation where Christians once flourished and a definite Christian consensus prevailed, for the most part, are all without exception being given over to reprobation and the wrath of God. This is confirmed by the biblical examples of the way God has always dealt with nations or people groups He gives over to a reprobate mind. Our victory will always be seen and witnessed in the faithfulness of Gods people in an age of great sin, temptation, trial, and antichristian hatred. The light of truth is never extinguished no matter how great or small His chosen in Christ may be. In the world yet not of the world is the guaranteed lot of the Church and people of God. We are and always will be a Hebrew 11 kind of people. To suffer with Christ is our joy, pleasure, and privilege.
"Common grace" is an idea cooked-up 19th century Dutch Calvinists, popularized by Van Til, and propagated by the Escondido sect as a misunderstanding of the Fall. The Fall plunged man into sin but primarily affected his spiritual, Godward gifts. He doesn't keep the manward parts of God's moral law perfectly, but he can do them well-enough to be a good citizen and neighbor. From this flawed premise, guys like DVD (also Dutch) have completely re-formulated the 2K theology and read "common grace" back into parts of Scripture that don't contain it (Genesis 9). www.midamerica.edu/uploads/files/pdf/journal/03journal92dennison.pdf
Common Grace once realized is an artifact of Natural Law and can at least be traced back to the Old Testament, Jesus, St. Paul, St. Agustin, Aquinas et al.
Well said, gentlemen. A constant fixation on what we don't have can lead to discontent with what God has given us.
I'm so glad I found you channel. YT algo came through! Saw one of your podcasts on sidebar and every episode has been SO refreshing. This past year on my deeper journey into my faith I was reforming to a more biblical sound doctrine and some of this took me away from what my husband and I grew up in. And though I'mthe researcher of the fam and he trusts me on many things, the hubs was REALLY struggling with election when I told him I was leaning to a calvinist reading of scripture. I also am a mil, always understood 'secret rapture' was not biblical, don't understand the idolizing of a nation state which has no connection to the OT tribe and that the Antichrist power is already on earth in the form of counterfeit Christianity: the Papacy. Our current church that both my husband and FIL are in leadership is extremely dispy and the past year have realized the pastor is a Zio nist. Currently he is preaching through Rev and reading everything literally and the series is a total of 5 months! I've been feeling SO lonely but watching your vids have given me confirmation. Need a sound man for your churcn in TN? That is what the hubs does. Kidding, not kidding.
Amen Jon and Justin!
How do Revelation 20;1-3 fit in with your views? Love your podcasts.
Brothers, I love you guys. But Apart from post-mil and biblical views of Theonomy, I do not see Jesus’s parable of the kingdom, parable of the mustard seed, making any sense. The mustard seed begins very small, then it grows and grows and never stops growing. What happens in the middle of that? Rain, hail, storms, dryness, good seasons and bad seasons. Tribulation, problems, sin you get the idea. BUT IT NEVER STOPS growing. That’s the KINGDOM of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You would have to be very creative to twist and turn that verse upside down to reconcile it with other mil views.
🙏🏼I would be greatly honored if you responded.
They didn't and won't.
@@christalone71 To be fair, they have responded in the past. I don’t expect them to respond every time.
The reason why Christians ought to be Reconstructionist is precisely because we don’t want to end up like China.
“And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the EARTH.”
Revelation 5:9-10
I appreciate your podcast. Was introduced to it through apologia who I have listened to sporadically. I definitely think you guys helped me see the trouble in being too focused on transforming the culture now and how that breeds a self righteous indignation towards the lost. Thank you… you guys are both great. Justin, you interrupted John quite a bit. Just saying 😂
Loved the discussion, guys. How would you respond to someone citing Matthew 5 when Jesus says, “You are the salt of the earth,” in regard to culture? After hearing a brother say, “Christians are called to create the culture,” I disagreed saying, “We’re called to make disciples and baptize them, not change the culture.” When he responded with Matthew 5, I really didn’t know how to respond.
It is true that believers are to be a help to the world. That doesn’t mean culture transformation is our mission. We reflect Christ in all we do, we are salt
Would not it stand to reason, if we disciple and baptize people it would have an impact on the culture, due to the fact that believers are part of the culture?
@@andrewcomley4356 This is my question also. I wish they would answer it.
Thank you for clear discussion on this issue
Im a 2K postmill. I believe the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as sand on the seashore, which has not happened yet. It comes by regeneration, not by any nonsense like Christian nationalism or theonomy, or us "working" to change the culture. You seem to presume a postmill view requires activity on our part, aside from simply sharing the gospel and building the church. I don't believe the culture is going to become a theocracy, but as hearts are regenerated things will shift as demand for certain kind of sins diminish (eg abortion on demand). I also don't believe that this results in some kind of hope in this world, rather a hope FOR this world, which spurs me on to loving my neighbour.
Potentially compare and contrast Christian nationalism of today with 1830s 40s emergence of the sda and Mormon movements.
No Restorationism theology, no Prophet, no rejection of Christian history and its creeds, no works salvation, no polygamy, no female theological leadership, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
On earth as it is in heaven. You don't believe it.
You assume and presuppose to it.
We pray your Kingdom Come your Will be done on Earth as it is in heaven, which means that it isn’t being done here. We are called to preach the Gospel and pray God bless
Christianity is allowed to positively influence society, but only on accident?😂
It’s not on accident, it’s how God has ordained
Again, you guys REALLY should dialogue with your confessional Lutheran bretheren about the 2 Kingdom doctrine. I think you would very much enjoy it
I wish they would dialogue with (have them on the podcast) Jeff Durbin, Doug Wilson and/or James White. THAT would be super interesting.
The millennium is where christ reigns here on earth there will be peace on earth he will reign over Israel and all the nations. So do we see that happening now?
How can we be living in the millennium now?
Amen brother, clearly in the scriptures!
Is that actually what the 20th chapter of revelation says, or are you reading all of that into the chapter?
@@Outrider74 Definitely reading it into the text. Premill is so messed up. These guys in the video are really getting it wrong. So sad for the body of Christ.
Yeah, everything I read in scripture has the kingdom coming to earth in a small and undetectable way, like a small pebble or say a mustard seed, or even a bit of leaven, but that rock grows and grows until it fills the whole earth, or the mustard seed grows into a great tree that fills the earth and all the birds of the world perch in it, and that yeast spreads and spreads until the whole loaf is leavened.
Nothing at all that looks like the world in decline, then Jesus snaps his fingers and establishes a kingdom fully formed, which then declines after 1000 years into a great apostasy because not even God himself is able to manage a kingdom well.
@@oracleoftroy Haha, does seem like this (second paragraph) is what they are saying.
The framing of this discussion is highly-questionable. Who is arguing that the church - which is primarily focused on Word and Sacrament and spiritual matters - has a duty to transform culture? I keep hearing the Escondido sect saying this but they provide no examples besides a kook in Idaho. Christians, OTOH, have many duties towards their countries just as they do their natural families and spiritual brothers. Some of this is not fleshed-out in the NT because the writers assumed the OT. Arguments from silence are not good arguments. I also don't understand why church history after the first through third century is inadmissible to this discussion. There have been many peoples and nations who have adopted Christianity just as there have been many families who've done the same.
Who is the kook in Idaho? And why is he a kook? Thanks for your reply.
Preterism says Christ returned in 70 AD. Believers live in the New Heavans and New Earth now, not in the future.
Preterism is walking the knife blade edge of heresy...
There’s a difference between full and partial preterism.
@@andrewmattiewalter And who is the arbiter of what is heresy? Most full preterists are trying to be true to scripture as they see it.
@@davidwilliamson3517 And yet we don't have glorified bodies and Jesus isn't dwelling among us on a renewed Earth, so full preterism is obviously wrong and since it directly denies the historic creeds, it is heresy. Or give me Jesus's address so I can visit him.
@@andrewmattiewalter full preterism is satanic I have read some of their stuff and stuff and interacted online a little with one of the head guys. Its evil. With that said Im postmill partial preterist and theonomic. The world is waaaay better then when we were being fed to lions in Rome and most people were slaves and many other things that are gone due to Christ thru the church. And yeah things are on a decline but the over all trajectory will be postive but we will long for Christ to come back because it will stay a fallen world until HE directly defeats death
Sure, it would be wonderful to live in a time like it was during the great awakening in the 18th century, but it is not the reality of today. Not will it ever be. That is biblical realism. In every nation where Christians once flourished and a definite Christian consensus prevailed, for the most part, are all without exception being given over to reprobation and the wrath of God. This is confirmed by the biblical examples of the way God has always dealt with nations or people groups He gives over to a reprobate mind. Our victory will always be seen and witnessed in the faithfulness of Gods people in an age of great sin, temptation, trial, and antichristian hatred. The light of truth is never extinguished no matter how great or small His chosen in Christ may be. In the world yet not of the world is the guaranteed lot of the Church and people of God. We are and always will be a Hebrew 11 kind of people. To suffer with Christ is our joy, pleasure, and privilege.
"Common grace" is an idea cooked-up 19th century Dutch Calvinists, popularized by Van Til, and propagated by the Escondido sect as a misunderstanding of the Fall. The Fall plunged man into sin but primarily affected his spiritual, Godward gifts. He doesn't keep the manward parts of God's moral law perfectly, but he can do them well-enough to be a good citizen and neighbor. From this flawed premise, guys like DVD (also Dutch) have completely re-formulated the 2K theology and read "common grace" back into parts of Scripture that don't contain it (Genesis 9). www.midamerica.edu/uploads/files/pdf/journal/03journal92dennison.pdf
Common Grace once realized is an artifact of Natural Law and can at least be traced back to the Old Testament, Jesus, St. Paul, St. Agustin, Aquinas et al.