I lived in Capreol in the 70’s and Sudbury was a vibrant city back then. Watched Gretzky play in Sudbury. Saw my first concert in 1977 Kiss/Cheap trick.
The Rainbow Centre was not its original name. From 1970 until 1998 it was called the “City Centre”. And it was an exciting mall to visit. New clothing fashions, Big Name Movies Premiered, Sam the Record Man, the Food Court was really nice & had no loitering. Yuk-Yuks Comedy Club. The Holiday Inn was a posh hotel!! I have great memories of the mall.
I left Sudbury in 1989 for Vancouver where the downtown is vibrant. It's vibrant because 80,000 people live in the downtown core. You are right that Sudbury's low density and sprawl has led to the downtown decline. I returned to Sudbury 24 years later and noticed a deteroriation of the downtown but I made it a point to try and patronize businessess there. I also supported keeping the Arena downtown. Sadly It's of course a bit of a chicken and egg argument but if people don't support their downtown it dies.
In the 1970s, Sudbury produced one of Canada's greatest progressive rock bands, CANO. The band's leader, André Paiement, was also a brilliant playwright, who wrote plays that celebrated the city and were written in colloquial Northern Ontario French. CANO played a direct and important role in creating Sudbury's two important festivals: Northern Lights Festival Boréal and La Nuit sur l'étang.
In the 1960s there was a garage rock band called Inferno 5+1 and they played out of the INferno club on Medina lane off Drham street. Ever hear of them?
Sudbury needs a local government rehaul. Too much of the local budget goes into wasteful projects and very little of it goes into the youth, what do the youth HAVE TO DO? As an outsider from Europe, when in Sudbury, there is very little to do for those who don’t drive and or don’t want to drink. Downtown is a no go zone after being threatened by both drug and alcohol users which as a young adult isn’t a safe interaction to have.
Great work, kid. I could definitely feel the passion and love you have for your city keep sharing more of that content, the best is yet to come. Sudbury is a relatively young city but it's resilient and and will only get back bigger better and stronger, The Best Is Yet To Come!!!
This was a very thorough documentary. Being only 21, I did not know what the lifestyle of downtown Sudbury was like. Due to this video, I now know how much things have changed, in even a short period of time. Thanks Kai!!!!!
I was surprised that Southridge became a ghost town so quickly (relatively). Parking is a pita downtown and one of the main reasons why I avoid it and only go there when I have to. I worked in the stockroom of Kresges as a teenager, started just before they down sized the store. So, I got there just as the problems they had been feeling for a while bore fruit. They shut down the top floor and laid off a bunch of people, I left right around that time.
Southridge Mall is pretty much equivalent to the North Bay Mall, built just a few years before in 1976. If you lived in Ferris (our answer to your south end), North Bay Mall was the place to go. It once housed over 60 stores, now down to about 10 total, mainly outparcels. North Bay Mall looked a lot like the recent Southridge in the last few years. They are finally doing renos and making it just mostly an outdoor box store center, I believe. It is now billed as the 'North Bay Centre', not North Bay Mall, anymore. Northgate is alive and well, and seems to be doing OK. Shame really, and kind of sad, because the North Bay Mall was a big thing for it's time, being the first indoor mall in the city.
The two year long INCO strikes in early 1980s and later 1980s were two massive economic blows to the place went from over 100K in population to mid 86,000 people. That’s when I had to go.
It’s a little confused. He says that downtown is built in the centre and equal distance between New Sudbury and the South End, yet those place didn’t exist at all when downtown was built. Until 1950, downtown wasn’t even downtown, because it was the city itself in its entirety. What happened was that New Sudbury (in the 60’s and 70’s) and the SouthEnd (in the 80’s and 90’s) developed at equal distances from old downtown and essentially pulled the downtown Main Street apart into two halves. There was one Canadian Tire and when two were needed, another was built in New Sudbury, then later, when a new one was needed, the downtown one was closed and a new one built in the South End. Many businesses went through this process. If there commercial space needed to increase, it was more sensible to have two spaces rather than one, and put one in the North in New Sudbury and one in the South in the South End. The story of downtown’s demise is one of cleaving main street and sending business north or south. These other locations didn’t exist in the first seventy years of Sudbury. Politicians in the eighties worried this would happen, and now it has happenedz
Sudbury is still great, but economic decline in the area and the nation as a whole has hurt Sudbury. The downtown in particular is full of crime, homeless and of course drugs...all symptoms of economic decline...
The USA came out with Large shopping malls in California and the Auto companies fully endorsed and promoted it . That's what started to kill ALL the downtowns . Our son had a business in downtown Sudbury but couldn't make it so he closed up shop ..Small town businesses died off and everyone had to drive to the big city shopping malls with their big box stores. They are trying to re vitalize downtowns now and i wish them a lot of luck .
North Bay it was/is a pretty similar story, before malls and such. We had a few more bars, restaurants, at least two active movie theatres, a Kresge, Woolworths, Walkers, Eatons, a Rexall Drugstore, you name it. Every 'oldtimer' I talk too, my dad included, have all said the same thing pretty much .... downtown WAS the city, and main shopping hub/area.
Downtown sudbury use to be booming because it was the only place to shop. Since new Sudbury and 4 corners built up malls ,,,downtown has not been kept up with shopping
Sudbury is a strange place, I lived there for 18 years and thank the good Lord above that I left that one horse town 14 years ago. It's a city in the middle of nowhere full of bars. I'm from Kingston, Ontario and their downtown core is amazing because it's a city with people who have intelligence. Visit Kingston and you'll see a stark difference.
Like other mid to large cities, do you think there would be a market for condos and/or lofts downtown? Have they tried it? Then again, it's the old chicken and egg scenario, do you build shops and services FIRST to entice people back downtown and thus, create a market for condos like in cities like K-W, Ottawa, Toronto and Barrie? Or, can it be a case of 'If you build it, they will come?' I guess a place has to be safe too and people have to feel comfortable living and doing business in said areas in the first place .... a Catch 22.
You're speaking my language! I think you hit the nail on the head with the core problems. One problem that you hint at, and that I'm sure you know of, is how Euclidean zoning means a city's residents need to park, and will choose businesses where it's 1) easier to park and 2) gets them close to the entrance. Hence why it feels easier to go to, say, Montana's at Silver Hills, rather than a restaurant downtown. One downtown revitalization approach I've heard of is to free up private parking lots: The usual situation is that numerous businesses have lots for employees and their particular customers only, and the idea is that sure, keep this arrangement in place... but only during the actual operating hours of the business. Employees go home at 5pm? Then 5pm is when the public parking starts in that lot. The City made a good decision in offering free on-street and municipal parking after 6pm on weeknights and all day on weekends, but I think ultimately we Sudburians are so accustomed to strip malls, that we want to cross one street max. Two blocks away is too far. This isn't the silver bullet, but it can be part of the overall solution, to encourage people to come downtown to eat (since that's mostly what it offers at the moment), leading to increased foot traffic, leading to more appeal for other small shops to open up. Well done video, I hope you'll continue talking about the topic online and off!
Hello Chris, I do know Euclidean zoning fairly well. And you probably know that most North American cities are structured this way. If we continue the suburban sprawl the problems will only persist!
I grew up in the Sudbury area, but moved away for better career opportunities. What happened in downtown Sudbury has happened in many areas in Ontario. Kitchener was the place to go, when I moved to Cambridge, but Cambridge grew because a lot of people found housing cheaper …so, big box stores sprung up in Cambridge, and we didn’t have to leave town to do all our shopping. Kitchener adapted to try to stay relevant, and has done ok in that respect. Needs change. Busy lives, the price of gas, two working parents mean we have less time to drive to a town centre 20 minutes away. Change is good, if it’s done right.
I grew up there in the 60sAND 70S,We would go to Woolworth and take pics, welcome summer at Bell park were Epic its a shame what they done to that city,Best place to grow up ever, I was a west ender born and raised on Spruce st.
I grew up on the corner of Spruce and Albinson (1943-1962), the latter street was renamed. I attended Saint Albert school and Sudbury HIgh. As a kid my fondest memory was taking the elevator to the upper floors of Simpson Department Store where they would convert the entire floor into a Christmas Wonderland where kids could see and interract with trains, trucks, tanks and toy guns. The anticipation of seeing all that woul build inside me while the elevator would slowly creep up the floors and then the attendant would announce the floor... Christmas Land!
Our Federal politicians sold our lifeblood to a foreign corporation, drugs and destitution followed. Our local politicians have made such terrible laws at the local level for example closing downtown business down at six pm to keep crime down? You're not doing that anyway! killing night life and tourism, this was years before the current crime problem. Since I've grown up as long I can remember. We have College's and University's. But a horrible night culture? I don't exactly where the weak points in our law enforcement is, it's easy to say police don't do there jobs, but what about the crown attorney's, local politics should be harder on crime. As I writing this 50-100 people are standing within 100 ft of our police department openly doing and dealing drugs. Even as man I don't go downtown unless I absolutely have too. From my perspective it seems like no one is doing anything about any of this. Of course the pandemic hurt Sudbury but in reality on only sped up it's eventual decline. What kills me, is that we could have a nice city, we have a beautiful lake, the scenery here is gorgeous, but environmentally it's dirty, older buildings run down feel adds to the oppressive "down and out" feeling to every person who comes here. The Fentanyl epidemic has consumed this city's soul. Everyone has lost someone. It would be nice if my downtown did not look like the zombie apocalypse has begun.
Loved the video, just a couple points I'd like to make, and by all means correct me if you feel I'm wrong. The first, which has already been pointed out, was that it was the City Centre far before the Rainbow Centre. The other, comparing Sudbury downtown designed for cars vs the downtowns of European cities isn't exactly fair, considering many of those cities cores were developed centuries ago, not just decades, with no concept of cars at the time. There's a reason that they're different, and it's hard to fault them for THAT (they're are many other faults you can find anyway)
The city council is too absorbed in spending money on stupid expensive projects and should be spending on roads and dealing with homeless and derelict buildings. Sudbury looking very shabby. Council ( many are useless) should realize that tourists come here to go fishing, hunting, skidooing, canoe tripping etc not visiting arts centre, entertainment districts or watching hockey. money should be put in to the out lying rural towns. Tourists avoid sudbury and go to espanola. A much cleaner, nicer and safer city.
Quite clear. Most of councilors in Sudbury are not business people,,,,, no experience in budgets, planning etc etc ! Until that changes,,, Sudbury stays the way it is perceived by the outside population ?
Congratulations on producing a great documentary. I suspect you have taken a few media and journalism courses. I lived in Sudbury for the first 18 years of my life and left in 1962. I attended Sudbury High School from 1958 to 1962. They were the most miserable years of my life. If you talk to French Canadians who attended that school during those years you will be shocked at the stories you will hear.
Hi I really appreciate that. I have not taken any courses for this, I learned how to use adobe premiere pro all on my own. I just want to see the city thrive, like most of us!
23:30 I've lived here most of my life but I've lived in 4 other cities in Ontario and I bike everywhere. I've been hit 5 times in this city and I couldn't count the close calls if I tried to. The last one I was riding on the paved shoulder on the South End bypass, a pickup truck crossed the buzz strip going by me at what I assume was around 110-120kph, they hit the back of my arm with their (gigantic, oversized, clown-like) wing mirror and I watched the mirror explode out in front of me in slow motion. Came away with nothing but a bit of glass in my arm, somehow. The other 4 cities? All totalled together, I've been hit 0 times, barely any close calls.
There are definitely a lot of inconsiderate yahoos driving around here. I don't feel safe in my vehicle at times. There are too few bike lanes in the city, poor planning.
If you look again there downtown in Europe have apartments and condos. That could help Sudbury. If you go to north York or York Mills in Toronto there busy and again they have apartments and condos.
sudbury is the drug capital of canada it has two major intersecting highways and the housing was deemed cheap for quite some time and now with the rising housing costs and the lack of people willing to stay to combat the prices caused a major up tick in homelessness. not to mention the place is littered with needles and people literally doing fent folds in front of the police station makes the appeal alot less to anyone looking to build the community by bringing/building a family. lived in and around sudbury my whole life and i can say that its just not safe anymore. at 15 i felt safe and thought i was okay walking through downtown and now when i go passed the tim hortons its just chaos and drugs everywhere.
Greed, nepotism and a healthy criminal underbelly has transformed Sludgebury into an even larger mess. This place was beautiful and busy at one time.. ..then crept an in crooked money that got washed through the downtown Chamber Of Commerce to the benifit of a small few.. ..be a cool documentary to do..example Interpaving with its mafia ties shorting the aggregate in the roads is why the roads so crappy..
For me it's all about the parking. You have to pay ridiculous amounts for parking now. Yes, I know of the "few" places that you could park for free but it's such a struggle, even PAID parking spots are difficult to find and the mall is a ghost town. In New Sudbury, it's free parking EVERYWHERE so I don't even bother going downtown anymore.
I’m a life long resident of Capreol; a small community that was amalgamated into the GCS in the early 2000’s by the Mike Harris government. My experiences echo much of what has been documented here. However, due to work responsibilities I travel across Ontario and find the downtown cores of other major cities in the same state of decline. This is not just a Sudbury problem, it is a societal one. It’s our responsibility along with that of elected government officials to identify core issues and introduce policies to reverse these trends. Unfortunately any fact finding mission on why downtown cores have fallen in to such decline will surely find opposition. Sadly, many of the so called “progressive” social experiments of the last half decade have contributed greatly to the current state of decline across many downtown cores.
While I appreciate the effort to understand Downtown Sudbury, you can't ignore context when you try and provide "evidence" as to why there aren't many people walking around downtown with your video clip. Is it the middle of the work day? Is it winter? Try a weekend summer day and I guarantee you'd see many more average people walking around. Elm place has recently been revitalized with the Farmer's Market being there. That draws hundreds of vendors and consumers to that very street you filmed (especially in the winter). Also, maybe explore the actual reasons as to why our roads are constantly in rough shape (increased traffic from average people from every outskirt community AND all the parallel business that comes from the significant mining in the immediate area of the city - of which both Timmins and North Bay don't have.) The Downtown currently has many opportunities to socialize, relax after work, enjoy entertainment and experience Sudbury culture. I think you missed the mark on not mentioning anything regarding amalgamation and it's impact on downtown as well. The parking argument has been debunked (if you are willing to walk less than 10 minutes which is comparable to other cities the size of Sudbury). It is not unsafe at night as your mother mentions (that is a perception not based on any facts or truth) and homelessness is not a downtown issue. It is a prevalent issue all over the city. Services just happen to be downtown where homeless people can access them. This video was referenced by a recent article in the Sudbury Star however it is pretty inaccurate and misrepresentative of the Downtown and does nothing to better our community. Big box retailers are the dinosaurs and NO downtown has big box stores. Declining retail (which started well before COVID) also has nothing to do with downtown. Shopping for shoes is not a cultural experience, as you mentioned being one of the draws of thriving downtowns. Zoning is also not the issue as there are large quantities of R zoning within a 5-10 minute walk of downtown if you examine the area outside of your drawn circle. While I agree that the City needs to step in to improve the downtown in some areas (rent, some zoning etc.) the large part of revitalizing the downtown will come from the new Cultural Hub, new arena and subsequent businesses and the most important part is people CHANGING THEIR ATTITUDES towards downtown. There is a serious lack of education, or ignorance towards downtown that was born out of amalgamation and all of the outskirt communities need to realize that some of them would have ceased to exist had we not amalgamated. An attitudinal shift by the citizens and the city making some changes will be the only way we get back to a vital downtown. And spending your money at the Townhouse rather than Kelsey's - way better food at the Townhouse anyway. Good effort but I think this video fell short in all the ways mentioned above.
Hey man I appreciate all the feed back. The point about changing their attitudes towards downtown was actually a really good one. I made this video for a school project and was unfortunately under a time constraint for the length of the video and the time I had left in the semester. If I had more time I probably would have made some of those points in the video. I just found out yesterday my link was shared in the sudbury star?? Its nice that its getting recognition, I had a fun time making this video in school!
I cant wait for Sudbury to cancel cars from downtown. They have a plan to make it car free, add over 200km of bike lanes and remove some car lanes. I used to live downtown in the late 90s early 00s, it was fun then. The mall had a great food court and an arcade, there was so much to do downtown and less cars. Now, you cant have a snack or meal on a patio without choking on exhaust fumes, its disgusting which suck because there is lots of great food downtown. For me its the traffic that ruins downtown, nobody watches where theyre going and youre likely to be hit crossing a street. The homeless arent so bad if you talk to them. Its funny to me how grown men are scared of the homeless downtown yet so many older ladies live downtown and walk around like they own it. Ive seen many just lip smack somebody trying to ask for change giving them a hard time. Then, they walk away.
There is ONE reason why people stopped going downtown: People don't want to pay for parking and they are too lazy to walk. Plain and simple. Now they can drive right up to a big box store and park for free. And then complain that downtown is dying. No one else to blame but YOU, dear Sudburian. Enjoy your free parking while you get the kind of downtown you deserve.
Kai, I guess you are way too young to know or understand the history of downtown Sudbury. It was always a $hithole for the past 100yrs. As someone who was born and raised in Sudbury, and has a History degree from Laurentian University, and has done a great deal of research on Sudbury, your impression of Sudbury's downtown is not real. If you have the chance, go to Laurentian University and go to the library and look in the archives. There are a few books that have a pictural history of Sudbury. In the early years, Sudbury was a cesspool. It was full of rats, garbage, and sewage. What little plumbing there was, all the sewage and wastewater went into Junction Creek. They didn't want to build a waste water treatment plant, and the entire city stunk like hell, many people died from cholera. There was a time when Junction Creek was open, can be seen and ran through the city. Because it stunk so much and was full of rats, garbage and sewage, the city council decided the cheapest way to deal with the problem, was to cover it up and continue to use it as the main sewage trunk. To this day, Junction Creek still runs through the city, they just built over it. It goes under the roads, around Brady Square, stays under the roads and comes out down Brady Street after the bridge. Some time in the 80s or 90s, it actually caved in at the intersection of Elm and Paris. Downtown was popular because there was nowhere else to live. In the townships, there were very few people, there were farms and dirt roads. Sudbury was one of the very few places in Canada that was actually booming during the Great Depression. The smelter was being built, there were good jobs, and people from all around the world were coming to Canada and Sudbury looking for work. What happens when you get a lot miners and others making lots of money in a booming mining community, you get growth and development, but you also get a lot alcohol abuse. Downtown had lots of bars, and other businesses, but it was also a place where lots of people went to get drunk, gamble, have sex with prostitutes. Yes, the city's downtown grew, many businesses, doctors, lawyers, and in the 60s, Woolworths build a department store, and later came the City Center (now know as Elm Place) in the early 70s, then a Canadian Tire where the bus station is today. There was no other places to shop. By that time, the townships also grew, but there were no malls, and New Sudbury was just starting to grow as a business and shopping center. During the day, families would go downtown, have dinner, shop at the mall, and other business. That is where people went to see their doctors, lawyers, and other commerce. At night, downtown was also booming with bars, clubs and other forms of adult social establishments. There were drunks everywhere, people on drugs of all types. It was what people did at night, downtown was a place to party and get drunk or high. By the 80s-90s, the townships is where growth was happening the most. The town had their own bars, their own places to shop for cloths, there were good roads, transits to and from the city. By the 80s-90s, there was lots of drugs in town, you couldn't walk down Elm Street without someone asking if you wanted whatever assortment of drugs they had available. There was a time when there were tunnels under the roads so you didn't have to cross the busy streets in downtown, but they got so full of criminals and rapists, muggers, etc they had to fill them and permanently cover them. The building that were built in 50s-60s and 70s were getting old, old fashion, families moved out of the downtown area and moved to the suburban areas of the townships where there was less crime, bigger yards, and a place to raise a family. The void was filled with lower income families and crime increased. It didn't help the city build a bunch of low income housing all around the city core. There were gangs (like the Louis St. Gang) and organized crime. Today, there is nothing downtown for people to do except for doctor appointments, legal appointments or work in those offices. The parking is poor, the buildings are old, (I wont step foot in the Elm Place out of fear it will collapse like it's sister mall in Elliot Lake), and there are junkies and meth heads everywhere. You cant walk down any of the streets without finding needles. You can't go to Memorial Park, it is full of junkies, and people getting drunk and homeless people. However, there is nothing new about any of that. From the begging of Sudbury, downtown was always full of drunks, drug addicts, homeless people, and crime. Sudbury's downtown has always been a $hithole, there are just more people now.
I lived in Capreol in the 70’s and Sudbury was a vibrant city back then. Watched Gretzky play in Sudbury. Saw my first concert in 1977 Kiss/Cheap trick.
And April Wine!
The Rainbow Centre was not its original name. From 1970 until 1998 it was called the “City Centre”. And it was an exciting mall to visit. New clothing fashions, Big Name Movies Premiered, Sam the Record Man, the Food Court was really nice & had no loitering. Yuk-Yuks Comedy Club. The Holiday Inn was a posh hotel!! I have great memories of the mall.
Thank you for the information, didn't know that. Im glad the video sparked some nostalgia for you!
I think that Dangerous Dans preceded Yuk-Yuks. It was a popular bar in its day.
City Centre it was! OMG what memories! I saw Star Wars double bill there. And bought records then CD's from Sam! Loved "the Mall" at Christmas too!
Bonimart was the main department store; yes it was the place to go back then. The Oriental Emporium was a great little shop!
I left Sudbury in 1989 for Vancouver where the downtown is vibrant. It's vibrant because 80,000 people live in the downtown core. You are right that Sudbury's low density and sprawl has led to the downtown decline.
I returned to Sudbury 24 years later and noticed a deteroriation of the downtown but I made it a point to try and patronize businessess there. I also supported keeping the Arena downtown. Sadly It's of course a bit of a chicken and egg argument but if people don't support their downtown it dies.
str8 whyte people with no culture destroyed the downtown.
In the 1970s, Sudbury produced one of Canada's greatest progressive rock bands, CANO. The band's leader, André Paiement, was also a brilliant playwright, who wrote plays that celebrated the city and were written in colloquial Northern Ontario French. CANO played a direct and important role in creating Sudbury's two important festivals: Northern Lights Festival Boréal and La Nuit sur l'étang.
In the 1960s there was a garage rock band called Inferno 5+1 and they played out of the INferno club on Medina lane off Drham street. Ever hear of them?
Sudbury needs a local government rehaul. Too much of the local budget goes into wasteful projects and very little of it goes into the youth, what do the youth HAVE TO DO?
As an outsider from Europe, when in Sudbury, there is very little to do for those who don’t drive and or don’t want to drink.
Downtown is a no go zone after being threatened by both drug and alcohol users which as a young adult isn’t a safe interaction to have.
Movies and go carting seems to be the only youth activities. We need cheap family gym/ pool facilities
Got that right
Great work, kid. I could definitely feel the passion and love you have for your city keep sharing more of that content, the best is yet to come. Sudbury is a relatively young city but it's resilient and and will only get back bigger better and stronger, The Best Is Yet To Come!!!
Thank you very much for watching the video and the feedback. I appreciate it!
This was a very thorough documentary. Being only 21, I did not know what the lifestyle of downtown Sudbury was like. Due to this video, I now know how much things have changed, in even a short period of time. Thanks Kai!!!!!
Online sales, Amazon in particular, has killed many brick and mortar stores.
The pandemic that just he final nail in the coffin for a lot of them.
agreed
Nicely done, great place to grow up in during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. Left here in 1980s, but always want the best for this place.
I was surprised that Southridge became a ghost town so quickly (relatively).
Parking is a pita downtown and one of the main reasons why I avoid it and only go there when I have to.
I worked in the stockroom of Kresges as a teenager, started just before they down sized the store.
So, I got there just as the problems they had been feeling for a while bore fruit.
They shut down the top floor and laid off a bunch of people, I left right around that time.
Your right about that the Southridge malls was badass when I was a kid especially that pizza place they have in the food court best pizza
Southridge Mall is pretty much equivalent to the North Bay Mall, built just a few years before in 1976. If you lived in Ferris (our answer to your south end), North Bay Mall was the place to go. It once housed over 60 stores, now down to about 10 total, mainly outparcels. North Bay Mall looked a lot like the recent Southridge in the last few years. They are finally doing renos and making it just mostly an outdoor box store center, I believe. It is now billed as the 'North Bay Centre', not North Bay Mall, anymore. Northgate is alive and well, and seems to be doing OK. Shame really, and kind of sad, because the North Bay Mall was a big thing for it's time, being the first indoor mall in the city.
The two year long INCO strikes in early 1980s and later 1980s were two massive economic blows to the place went from over 100K in population to mid 86,000 people. That’s when I had to go.
Informative and helpful, thanks.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s in sudbury.
It was awesome downtown at christmas. Really magical and busy.
This is so well researched and put together, fantastic job!
Thank you very much!!
It’s a little confused. He says that downtown is built in the centre and equal distance between New Sudbury and the South End, yet those place didn’t exist at all when downtown was built. Until 1950, downtown wasn’t even downtown, because it was the city itself in its entirety. What happened was that New Sudbury (in the 60’s and 70’s) and the SouthEnd (in the 80’s and 90’s) developed at equal distances from old downtown and essentially pulled the downtown Main Street apart into two halves. There was one Canadian Tire and when two were needed, another was built in New Sudbury, then later, when a new one was needed, the downtown one was closed and a new one built in the South End. Many businesses went through this process. If there commercial space needed to increase, it was more sensible to have two spaces rather than one, and put one in the North in New Sudbury and one in the South in the South End. The story of downtown’s demise is one of cleaving main street and sending business north or south. These other locations didn’t exist in the first seventy years of Sudbury. Politicians in the eighties worried this would happen, and now it has happenedz
Hello. Thank you for this information
As a kid going to Suds in the 70's and early 80's was a treat. It was bustling. Christmas shops were divine. Many many happy memories of back then.
Sounded like a good time back then
Sudbury is still great, but economic decline in the area and the nation as a whole has hurt Sudbury. The downtown in particular is full of crime, homeless and of course drugs...all symptoms of economic decline...
I hope your talents, your inquisitiveness and your initiative take you on a fantastic journey called life!
The USA came out with Large shopping malls in California and the Auto companies fully endorsed and promoted it . That's what started to kill ALL the downtowns . Our son had a business in downtown Sudbury but couldn't make it so he closed up shop ..Small town businesses died off and everyone had to drive to the big city shopping malls with their big box stores.
They are trying to re vitalize downtowns now and i wish them a lot of luck .
Exactly
North Bay it was/is a pretty similar story, before malls and such. We had a few more bars, restaurants, at least two active movie theatres, a Kresge, Woolworths, Walkers, Eatons, a Rexall Drugstore, you name it. Every 'oldtimer' I talk too, my dad included, have all said the same thing pretty much .... downtown WAS the city, and main shopping hub/area.
Downtown sudbury use to be booming because it was the only place to shop. Since new Sudbury and 4 corners built up malls ,,,downtown has not been kept up with shopping
👍👍✌️ Well done doc on Sudbury I enjoyed it very much…
Sudbury is a strange place, I lived there for 18 years and thank the good Lord above that I left that one horse town 14 years ago. It's a city in the middle of nowhere full of bars. I'm from Kingston, Ontario and their downtown core is amazing because it's a city with people who have intelligence. Visit Kingston and you'll see a stark difference.
Though no longer in sudbury I grew up there, This Jenifer Novak must be about my age for she brought me down memory lane!
Did u make it out or are you coming.back like most end up doing
Like other mid to large cities, do you think there would be a market for condos and/or lofts downtown? Have they tried it? Then again, it's the old chicken and egg scenario, do you build shops and services FIRST to entice people back downtown and thus, create a market for condos like in cities like K-W, Ottawa, Toronto and Barrie? Or, can it be a case of 'If you build it, they will come?' I guess a place has to be safe too and people have to feel comfortable living and doing business in said areas in the first place .... a Catch 22.
I used to live in Sudbury about 10 years ago and I know this lady I remember her she came to my business she probably don’t remember me
You're speaking my language!
I think you hit the nail on the head with the core problems. One problem that you hint at, and that I'm sure you know of, is how Euclidean zoning means a city's residents need to park, and will choose businesses where it's 1) easier to park and 2) gets them close to the entrance. Hence why it feels easier to go to, say, Montana's at Silver Hills, rather than a restaurant downtown.
One downtown revitalization approach I've heard of is to free up private parking lots: The usual situation is that numerous businesses have lots for employees and their particular customers only, and the idea is that sure, keep this arrangement in place... but only during the actual operating hours of the business. Employees go home at 5pm? Then 5pm is when the public parking starts in that lot. The City made a good decision in offering free on-street and municipal parking after 6pm on weeknights and all day on weekends, but I think ultimately we Sudburians are so accustomed to strip malls, that we want to cross one street max. Two blocks away is too far. This isn't the silver bullet, but it can be part of the overall solution, to encourage people to come downtown to eat (since that's mostly what it offers at the moment), leading to increased foot traffic, leading to more appeal for other small shops to open up.
Well done video, I hope you'll continue talking about the topic online and off!
Hello Chris, I do know Euclidean zoning fairly well. And you probably know that most North American cities are structured this way. If we continue the suburban sprawl the problems will only persist!
I grew up in the Sudbury area, but moved away for better career opportunities. What happened in downtown Sudbury has happened in many areas in Ontario. Kitchener was the place to go, when I moved to Cambridge, but Cambridge grew because a lot of people found housing cheaper …so, big box stores sprung up in Cambridge, and we didn’t have to leave town to do all our shopping. Kitchener adapted to try to stay relevant, and has done ok in that respect. Needs change. Busy lives, the price of gas, two working parents mean we have less time to drive to a town centre 20 minutes away. Change is good, if it’s done right.
Anyone remember the crazy old lady at the bus station downtown who used to play tiny cards on her purse for 20+years straight?
This all exactly what Prince George British Columbia is experiencing.
I grew up there in the 60sAND 70S,We would go to Woolworth and take pics, welcome summer at Bell park were Epic its a shame what they done to that city,Best place to grow up ever, I was a west ender born and raised on Spruce st.
I grew up on the corner of Spruce and Albinson (1943-1962), the latter street was renamed. I attended Saint Albert school and Sudbury HIgh. As a kid my fondest memory was taking the elevator to the upper floors of Simpson Department Store where they would convert the entire floor into a Christmas Wonderland where kids could see and interract with trains, trucks, tanks and toy guns. The anticipation of seeing all that woul build inside me while the elevator would slowly creep up the floors and then the attendant would announce the floor... Christmas Land!
Who is they?
i work downtown mall security....the things ive seen
drug central
Our Federal politicians sold our lifeblood to a foreign corporation, drugs and destitution followed. Our local politicians have made such terrible laws at the local level for example closing downtown business down at six pm to keep crime down? You're not doing that anyway! killing night life and tourism, this was years before the current crime problem. Since I've grown up as long I can remember. We have College's and University's. But a horrible night culture?
I don't exactly where the weak points in our law enforcement is, it's easy to say police don't do there jobs, but what about the crown attorney's, local politics should be harder on crime. As I writing this 50-100 people are standing within 100 ft of our police department openly doing and dealing drugs. Even as man I don't go downtown unless I absolutely have too. From my perspective it seems like no one is doing anything about any of this.
Of course the pandemic hurt Sudbury but in reality on only sped up it's eventual decline.
What kills me, is that we could have a nice city, we have a beautiful lake, the scenery here is gorgeous, but environmentally it's dirty, older buildings run down feel adds to the oppressive "down and out" feeling to every person who comes here. The Fentanyl epidemic has consumed this city's soul.
Everyone has lost someone. It would be nice if my downtown did not look like the zombie apocalypse has begun.
Loved the video, just a couple points I'd like to make, and by all means correct me if you feel I'm wrong. The first, which has already been pointed out, was that it was the City Centre far before the Rainbow Centre. The other, comparing Sudbury downtown designed for cars vs the downtowns of European cities isn't exactly fair, considering many of those cities cores were developed centuries ago, not just decades, with no concept of cars at the time. There's a reason that they're different, and it's hard to fault them for THAT (they're are many other faults you can find anyway)
Very good journalism!!😃
Thank you very much
Thanks you for your introduction I will come here in few days ,it will be a challenge to me
@@闻青 no problem. Please enjoy the nature since it is summer
The city council is too absorbed in spending money on stupid expensive projects and should be spending on roads and dealing with homeless and derelict buildings. Sudbury looking very shabby. Council ( many are useless) should realize that tourists come here to go fishing, hunting, skidooing, canoe tripping etc not visiting arts centre, entertainment districts or watching hockey. money should be put in to the out lying rural towns. Tourists avoid sudbury and go to espanola. A much cleaner, nicer and safer city.
Great video man! If you ever want to work on something together here in Sudbury, get it touch!
Quite clear. Most of councilors in Sudbury are not business people,,,,, no experience in budgets, planning etc etc ! Until that changes,,, Sudbury stays the way it is perceived by the outside population ?
What happened to Bonnie-mart, Woolworths and Kresge’s?
Congratulations on producing a great documentary. I suspect you have taken a few media and journalism courses. I lived in Sudbury for the first 18 years of my life and left in 1962. I attended Sudbury High School from 1958 to 1962. They were the most miserable years of my life. If you talk to French Canadians who attended that school during those years you will be shocked at the stories you will hear.
Hi I really appreciate that. I have not taken any courses for this, I learned how to use adobe premiere pro all on my own. I just want to see the city thrive, like most of us!
When I looked into opening a business years ago, the RBC had a big push on opening downtown, probably still do.
23:30 I've lived here most of my life but I've lived in 4 other cities in Ontario and I bike everywhere. I've been hit 5 times in this city and I couldn't count the close calls if I tried to. The last one I was riding on the paved shoulder on the South End bypass, a pickup truck crossed the buzz strip going by me at what I assume was around 110-120kph, they hit the back of my arm with their (gigantic, oversized, clown-like) wing mirror and I watched the mirror explode out in front of me in slow motion. Came away with nothing but a bit of glass in my arm, somehow. The other 4 cities? All totalled together, I've been hit 0 times, barely any close calls.
I quit riding two years after I moved there back in 1983. I had countless close calls
There are definitely a lot of inconsiderate yahoos driving around here. I don't feel safe in my vehicle at times.
There are too few bike lanes in the city, poor planning.
Which other cities have you cycled in, and how would you rate their safety?
Miss you Rainbow Cinemas
A while back businesses complained of lack of law enforcement.
If you look again there downtown in Europe have apartments and condos. That could help Sudbury. If you go to north York or York Mills in Toronto there busy and again they have apartments and condos.
I need that recipe for that WoolWorth's White Birthday Cake. That was the cake.
How about a Sudbury Saturday Night
sudbury is the drug capital of canada it has two major intersecting highways and the housing was deemed cheap for quite some time and now with the rising housing costs and the lack of people willing to stay to combat the prices caused a major up tick in homelessness. not to mention the place is littered with needles and people literally doing fent folds in front of the police station makes the appeal alot less to anyone looking to build the community by bringing/building a family. lived in and around sudbury my whole life and i can say that its just not safe anymore. at 15 i felt safe and thought i was okay walking through downtown and now when i go passed the tim hortons its just chaos and drugs everywhere.
What led to Sudbury's decline? Miss-management by city leaders.
Amazing video!
@@carterhart7902 thank you I did it for a school project
Nickel led to the the decline of Downtown sudbury. End of story no further details needed
When walk through downtown there’s always some druggie nodding off on the curb somewhere. Great views. Wish I saw that old Sudbury lol.
Well done 👍
Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video
Can we get how Sudbury municipal help community And it's unsuccessful what will be the other resources
Greed, nepotism and a healthy criminal underbelly has transformed Sludgebury into an even larger mess.
This place was beautiful and busy at one time..
..then crept an in crooked money that got washed through the downtown Chamber Of Commerce to the benifit of a small few..
..be a cool documentary to do..example
Interpaving with its mafia ties shorting the aggregate in the roads is why the roads so crappy..
you know what he doesn't show in the video is his rust bucket 06 passat with literal rust holes in the door and fenders
He does give his cute mom a guest appearance
Big box stores and cars kinda ruined everything about well everything
It’s a zombie apocalypse down here
Well done
Drugs and homelessness
For me it's all about the parking. You have to pay ridiculous amounts for parking now. Yes, I know of the "few" places that you could park for free but it's such a struggle, even PAID parking spots are difficult to find and the mall is a ghost town. In New Sudbury, it's free parking EVERYWHERE so I don't even bother going downtown anymore.
I’m a life long resident of Capreol; a small community that was amalgamated into the GCS in the early 2000’s by the Mike Harris government. My experiences echo much of what has been documented here. However, due to work responsibilities I travel across Ontario and find the downtown cores of other major cities in the same state of decline. This is not just a Sudbury problem, it is a societal one. It’s our responsibility along with that of elected government officials to identify core issues and introduce policies to reverse these trends. Unfortunately any fact finding mission on why downtown cores have fallen in to such decline will surely find opposition. Sadly, many of the so called “progressive” social experiments of the last half decade have contributed greatly to the current state of decline across many downtown cores.
While I appreciate the effort to understand Downtown Sudbury, you can't ignore context when you try and provide "evidence" as to why there aren't many people walking around downtown with your video clip. Is it the middle of the work day? Is it winter? Try a weekend summer day and I guarantee you'd see many more average people walking around. Elm place has recently been revitalized with the Farmer's Market being there. That draws hundreds of vendors and consumers to that very street you filmed (especially in the winter). Also, maybe explore the actual reasons as to why our roads are constantly in rough shape (increased traffic from average people from every outskirt community AND all the parallel business that comes from the significant mining in the immediate area of the city - of which both Timmins and North Bay don't have.) The Downtown currently has many opportunities to socialize, relax after work, enjoy entertainment and experience Sudbury culture. I think you missed the mark on not mentioning anything regarding amalgamation and it's impact on downtown as well. The parking argument has been debunked (if you are willing to walk less than 10 minutes which is comparable to other cities the size of Sudbury). It is not unsafe at night as your mother mentions (that is a perception not based on any facts or truth) and homelessness is not a downtown issue. It is a prevalent issue all over the city. Services just happen to be downtown where homeless people can access them. This video was referenced by a recent article in the Sudbury Star however it is pretty inaccurate and misrepresentative of the Downtown and does nothing to better our community. Big box retailers are the dinosaurs and NO downtown has big box stores. Declining retail (which started well before COVID) also has nothing to do with downtown. Shopping for shoes is not a cultural experience, as you mentioned being one of the draws of thriving downtowns. Zoning is also not the issue as there are large quantities of R zoning within a 5-10 minute walk of downtown if you examine the area outside of your drawn circle. While I agree that the City needs to step in to improve the downtown in some areas (rent, some zoning etc.) the large part of revitalizing the downtown will come from the new Cultural Hub, new arena and subsequent businesses and the most important part is people CHANGING THEIR ATTITUDES towards downtown. There is a serious lack of education, or ignorance towards downtown that was born out of amalgamation and all of the outskirt communities need to realize that some of them would have ceased to exist had we not amalgamated. An attitudinal shift by the citizens and the city making some changes will be the only way we get back to a vital downtown. And spending your money at the Townhouse rather than Kelsey's - way better food at the Townhouse anyway. Good effort but I think this video fell short in all the ways mentioned above.
Hey man I appreciate all the feed back. The point about changing their attitudes towards downtown was actually a really good one. I made this video for a school project and was unfortunately under a time constraint for the length of the video and the time I had left in the semester. If I had more time I probably would have made some of those points in the video. I just found out yesterday my link was shared in the sudbury star?? Its nice that its getting recognition, I had a fun time making this video in school!
I cant wait for Sudbury to cancel cars from downtown. They have a plan to make it car free, add over 200km of bike lanes and remove some car lanes. I used to live downtown in the late 90s early 00s, it was fun then. The mall had a great food court and an arcade, there was so much to do downtown and less cars. Now, you cant have a snack or meal on a patio without choking on exhaust fumes, its disgusting which suck because there is lots of great food downtown. For me its the traffic that ruins downtown, nobody watches where theyre going and youre likely to be hit crossing a street. The homeless arent so bad if you talk to them. Its funny to me how grown men are scared of the homeless downtown yet so many older ladies live downtown and walk around like they own it. Ive seen many just lip smack somebody trying to ask for change giving them a hard time. Then, they walk away.
There is ONE reason why people stopped going downtown: People don't want to pay for parking and they are too lazy to walk. Plain and simple. Now they can drive right up to a big box store and park for free. And then complain that downtown is dying.
No one else to blame but YOU, dear Sudburian. Enjoy your free parking while you get the kind of downtown you deserve.
Ya I agree, mainly a North American issue
B+
Ikr
Kai, I guess you are way too young to know or understand the history of downtown Sudbury. It was always a $hithole for the past 100yrs. As someone who was born and raised in Sudbury, and has a History degree from Laurentian University, and has done a great deal of research on Sudbury, your impression of Sudbury's downtown is not real. If you have the chance, go to Laurentian University and go to the library and look in the archives. There are a few books that have a pictural history of Sudbury. In the early years, Sudbury was a cesspool. It was full of rats, garbage, and sewage. What little plumbing there was, all the sewage and wastewater went into Junction Creek. They didn't want to build a waste water treatment plant, and the entire city stunk like hell, many people died from cholera. There was a time when Junction Creek was open, can be seen and ran through the city. Because it stunk so much and was full of rats, garbage and sewage, the city council decided the cheapest way to deal with the problem, was to cover it up and continue to use it as the main sewage trunk. To this day, Junction Creek still runs through the city, they just built over it. It goes under the roads, around Brady Square, stays under the roads and comes out down Brady Street after the bridge. Some time in the 80s or 90s, it actually caved in at the intersection of Elm and Paris.
Downtown was popular because there was nowhere else to live. In the townships, there were very few people, there were farms and dirt roads. Sudbury was one of the very few places in Canada that was actually booming during the Great Depression. The smelter was being built, there were good jobs, and people from all around the world were coming to Canada and Sudbury looking for work. What happens when you get a lot miners and others making lots of money in a booming mining community, you get growth and development, but you also get a lot alcohol abuse. Downtown had lots of bars, and other businesses, but it was also a place where lots of people went to get drunk, gamble, have sex with prostitutes. Yes, the city's downtown grew, many businesses, doctors, lawyers, and in the 60s, Woolworths build a department store, and later came the City Center (now know as Elm Place) in the early 70s, then a Canadian Tire where the bus station is today. There was no other places to shop. By that time, the townships also grew, but there were no malls, and New Sudbury was just starting to grow as a business and shopping center. During the day, families would go downtown, have dinner, shop at the mall, and other business. That is where people went to see their doctors, lawyers, and other commerce. At night, downtown was also booming with bars, clubs and other forms of adult social establishments. There were drunks everywhere, people on drugs of all types. It was what people did at night, downtown was a place to party and get drunk or high.
By the 80s-90s, the townships is where growth was happening the most. The town had their own bars, their own places to shop for cloths, there were good roads, transits to and from the city. By the 80s-90s, there was lots of drugs in town, you couldn't walk down Elm Street without someone asking if you wanted whatever assortment of drugs they had available. There was a time when there were tunnels under the roads so you didn't have to cross the busy streets in downtown, but they got so full of criminals and rapists, muggers, etc they had to fill them and permanently cover them. The building that were built in 50s-60s and 70s were getting old, old fashion, families moved out of the downtown area and moved to the suburban areas of the townships where there was less crime, bigger yards, and a place to raise a family. The void was filled with lower income families and crime increased. It didn't help the city build a bunch of low income housing all around the city core. There were gangs (like the Louis St. Gang) and organized crime.
Today, there is nothing downtown for people to do except for doctor appointments, legal appointments or work in those offices. The parking is poor, the buildings are old, (I wont step foot in the Elm Place out of fear it will collapse like it's sister mall in Elliot Lake), and there are junkies and meth heads everywhere. You cant walk down any of the streets without finding needles. You can't go to Memorial Park, it is full of junkies, and people getting drunk and homeless people. However, there is nothing new about any of that. From the begging of Sudbury, downtown was always full of drunks, drug addicts, homeless people, and crime. Sudbury's downtown has always been a $hithole, there are just more people now.
YOu gotta get a better mic dude
Facts. I don’t usually make videos like this, since it was for a school project did not feel like buying a mic just for this