What is the Python Job Delusion?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
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A lot of companies are trying to pull back the remote work and we need to resist it. Frankly I work harder remote knowing I don’t have to dress up and drive. I work overtime and off hours remote as I want! If I had to wake up earlier and drive, I would clock in at 9 and clock out at 5 hard stop.
most people don't really work well in remote from what I hear
@@szopad7832 most people work very well in remote. source: my last 6 remote jobs
for me remote is a hard requirement. i tasted freedom and i'm not going back.
same dude, I'll never work in the office as long as I can but I desire to be really productive, I'll keep doing oddweb jobs before I join a corp
@@szopad7832 source: i made it up.
Good video. I was one of those who fell into exactly that delusion. I was thinking that I'll be able to get data science or AI job without a degree, just with Python. I've learnt Python on my own, I solved lots of challenges, I did projects and so on... Applied for jobs and didn't get any. However, I'm not the one that just want to get into coding for the good salaries or something, I actually want to do AI. I've just started a degree course in data science and neuroscience (aged 38).
Very nice, keep at it man!
Did you have a side-relevant PhD? Like math, physics, bioscience etc.? I’ve seen a lot of my fellow PhDs in astrophysics get these jobs with, according to me, pretty deficient python skills. I’m on the same transition myself, although my software developer skills are strong.
@@astronemir I don't have any degree. According to youtube videos, you can get Python jobs without a degree and even many are saying it's not worth it to get a degree at all, better learn by yourself and get a job. My plan was to try get an internship in some big company and then try to progress from inside (while learning online by myself) into AI. Or I was also ready to get a job in a startup, just to gain some experience first. But I couldn't get any job for 1 year applying every day for jobs. And I'm quite good at solving coding challenges, I could have probably got in competitive programming, if I started early. I used to go to math and physics competitions in high school. Tried to study physics once upon a time, but could't continue for financial reasons (student loans weren't available in my country).
@@therodolfool Thanks!
Try Engineering, or anything with a Science bent... RR Jet Engines.. etc... Crypto... Pharma... I built a 24/7 ´war-room´ dragging client-side data from factories into our support team. Automated monitoring, and support would sit looking at the phone, the factory cctv, oh there comes someone... ´cos we knew their process had gone awry, before they did... it was our machines, monitored 24/7 worlkd-wide, through firewalls and all that. We couldn´t release our proprietary controls code, but the half-way house was BINGO..
The way i got start as a python developer was as a test developer. I found that it is pretty much the only kind of job that is in relatively high demand, and where they will consider you if you are a beginner. I agree with Stef, it is not the obvious choice for a first language. Now i have a core python developer job, but what got me hired other than the QA background (which is very valuable) is my unfinished chemistry degree. Most of my coworkers have either a STEM background, or are trained developers who transitioned to python from C++. Companies will usually have you pick up python on the fly as someone with experience in an other language. If you only know python, you will need either previous work experience, or something else going for you.
This is correct. I have a degree in statistics and worked as a statistician for years, I also had other analyst jobs where SQL was the main language. This was before I became a data scientist and then a data engineer. Python is pretty much the most basic aspect in these jobs compared to maths (for Data Science) and knowledge of data and databases (for Data Engineering). Before Python R was used heavily. Data science is pretty agnostic of language and there will probably be a time where Python isn't used but languages like Julia and even Rust are instead.
I spent the past year or so learning front end web development and it's somewhat 'easier' to pick up and do impressive things fairly quickly compared to DS.
Thanks
I totally agree. I work in an AI lab specialized in NLP, vision and robotics. We use Python in most of our _experiments_ , however most of it is later industrialized in C++ or in Rust. We recruit people for their knowledge of AI and ML, not for their programming skills.
Python for deployment is a nightmare, the level of dependencies is often on the verge of crazy. It was partially solved with dockers, but GPUS are pretty complicated to access through dockers.
In my opinion, Python has become a definitive industrial liability. Java managed to solve many of these issues with Maven, but Python is way to brittle as it is today. Scientists appreciate the simplicity of the language, but the reality is that Python is still a language where introspection is very complicated, which makes debugging quite difficult.
If you use Pytorch for instance, you have to understand that Python is one of the possible portals to the underlying C++ library: libtorch.
@@lesfreresdelaquote1176 Anaconda & ActiveState resolve the package dependency issues, since that's their core offering with python. Could you kindly elaborate on the issues your team faced in python deployment?
Also, container management softwares like kubernetes with docker are used to manage n maintain containers ? Don't you guys use something similar ? What challenges does your team face with docker ?
Hey wayne I am from account's background. I want to become a data analyst can you tell me how I prepare for it do you think it's tuff because I am not from computer science background.
@@karatsurba4791 Yes when you deploy one application. However, I can't tell the number of time I downloaded some new models from HuggingFace that required a specific package installation that proved incompatible with my current installation. If you are focussed on one single application, there might be no issue but when you are switching between different applications all the time as we do for research purpose, then hell breaks loose. If you read my message, you'll see that I speak about docker, but docker does not work very well with GPU and the different versions of cuda around. Between the Python version, the cuda versions, the different GPU cards, the dependencies between packages, the ways you can fail in this environment are too numerous to count. It reminds me of an old joke about Java: program in one place, debug everywhere. Python has managed to make this joke even worse.
I'm a data engineer, and I got the job only having studied Python and SQL in my freetime...no bachelor degree, data science training, or previous IT job.
That being said, I'm clearly an outlier, and that this video speaks the truth. When I chose to learn Python, I didn't know I'd probably land in data, otherwise I would have spent my time learning something else. Plus, I ended up having to use SQL 10x more than Python.
Dude, thats insane. It took me 4 years and a data science bootacmp, after getting a degree in mech engineering, to land a job as a data analyst. Its more of a 'data engineer lite' role as I basically write pipelines all day.
Plus, the term Data Analyst and Data Scientist is used very loosely in some organizations.
At my old job, our Director was vehemently against using SQL. He wanted everything done in Python. However, I remember SO many physician questions that would have been better answered using SQL vs the mashup in our department.
As it stood, I always pulled back WAY more data than I needed (had to use canned reports in Business Objects) and whittle it down in Excel (not ideal).
Heck, that's why I learned SQL and Python to begin with ... I got tired of opening files with 800K+ rows in Excel and running manual processes that took HOURS to complete. It, for lack of a better term, was not fun.
@@whatwasisaying1338 They use Data Engineer even more loosely! It's almost a case-by-case basis at this point lol. I would call what I do glorified data analysis, or diet data engineering.
@@GenerallyGoodMusic lol.
I watched the same video from you before I got hired for my first backend position 2 years ago and got very very discouraged.
I got hired as a python Django dev.
Please don't let this man discourage you.
What sort of projects did you do and is this a SMB company?
He didn't discourage you probably didn't pay enough attention.
holy shit i haven't even started the video but thank you for this comment, that's exactly what I'm learning right now since it's what I liked the most, i'm working on a django project to add to my portfolio
Thank you!
Your timely pionters are very appreciated. Just the other day, following Brian Tracy's business development skills I came across a movie titled "The rise of the entrepreneur". I watched it thinking it was on business. Turned out it was on MLM. I remembered you having done a video on that! I had not watched that video then, but I watched it the other night. Very "accurate" and "helpful" tips there as well. I have had experience with Herbalife and ForMor .. barely avoided Amway and Market America ... goodness, you reminded me of the 90's!
Thanks once again for putting out minds at peace.
Yea there are Python software engineering jobs out there but like you said regarding Java, those kind of jobs are hard to get without a computer science degree. I feel the web stack is the best route to take to get a dev job without having to go back and get a degree. Python is used a lot in higher up IT jobs like cloud, networking engineering. security, etc but those usually aren't entry level jobs either.
Hey Stef, totally agree that the web stack is an excellent entry point into a tech career. One thing folks should keep on their radar regarding Python specializations is cybersecurity - not only for automations and microservices, but (drumroll) data science! Companies that are ahead of the curve are becoming hip to the fact that the cybersecurity industry faces some of the exact same hurdles the scientific and data processing communities have faced for years.
This video is a great piece of wisdom - though I do want to share something that I experienced as an electrical engineer. Of course a high-level language like python isn't going to have a ton of great applications where things like optimization and speed matter. My job wasn't coding specific but at my company, but I was one of very few who knew how to write scripts in python efficiently to help with test result analysis (this also came with knowledge of digital signal processing, experience with different libraries from university, etc - all things specific to a background in science as the video suggests). Even so, I think learning in use it effectively can really make you a more effective (and valuable) employee. I always encourage people to learn it as an ancillary skill for the sake of career advancement. As others have said, its also fairly intuitive and not terrible to learn on the fly with other coding experience.
Yes, python is very flexible because of it's huge ecosystem of modules, and no-one is messing around too much with the core. Great for prototyping, small scale apps etc. Not sure about enterprise-level software though.
Yes you are right. People always talk about Django and Flask, but in general these jobs are the minority of python jobs out there. Most companies take other language for APIs. The last python jobs I saw are heavily focused on the Automotive industry.
As someone in that line, yes this is all correct - though I would say learning networking/web things is a specialty in of itself with js/php (though maybe more accessible to most than advanced statistics / calculus), even if other computer science fields do sometimes interact with that layer as well.
But also what's crucial in web stack development specially if you'll work on your own is having good sales and communication skills, after you reach some point of learning coding you'll have to heavily invest in making good contacts, without them nobody will ask for your skills no matter how good you are.
Thank you! This was what I needed to know. I was about to invest a huge amount of time learning it.
Mmmmmm. What this video isn't well articulated is how much Python is used on the backend for scripting and general purpose stuff. If you are getting into doing services, backend piping, and working with Azure or AWS, then Python is good to have.
@@cweymouth1 what job description would that be? I guess, pure data engineering ? (Using spark etc..)
Man, this vid was straight as f**
This kind of content and guide info that self taught devs need to hear.
Job uncle u got a sub
Unless you have a very specific plan to break into a specialty (more power to you), the “safe” bet for a full-stack programmer's languages (assuming _that they have no preference already_ and want to maximize the potential pool of jobs that require them to deal with that language), seems to be something like this:
1) ECMAScript/JavaScript/TypeScript + popular frameworks (React/Next/RNative, Tailwind, etc.) - You'll never escape this on the frontend. We'll probably die before this language does. WebAssembly won't save you now. If you've done some frontend stuff, getting into a backend role with Node.js isn't that hard if your fundamentals are good enough for an interview.
2) Java + popular frameworks (Spring Boot, Lombok, , etc.) - C++, Java & Python are common in coding problem sites and interviews. Lots of solutions written in these.
Java seems to have the most (dare I say best?) reference material for DSA stuff (e.g. check out _Data Structures and Algorithms in Java_ by Robert Lafore), and as this channel points out, is most likely more practical than either C++ or Python for your day job.
Also, a lot of interview-related challenge sites (including, as of the time of writing, Google's Foobar challenge) offered Python & Java but not C++ last I checked.
Though most of the big ones offer a ton of languages these days.
JavaScript is a bit weird to use for DSA/LeetCode/Codeforces-type stuff (lack of a standard library comparable to Java or Python is one reason).
Python & Java are the most common choices besides C++ from the looks of it.
Might as well use the thing you'll likely use at work.
As for libraries, some stuff like Apache's MyBatis don't get talked about much, but seem inescapable in some regions, while stuff like Hibernate seem to be a favorite of hiring managers in others.
Also, although tech stacks & ecosystems differ a lot, most people expect an experienced Java guy to be able to easily handle C# and vice versa.
JavaScript/TypeScript, Java & C# are all cancerously popular globally, both in megacorps and startups. I know they might be an eyesore/RSI trigger/headache for the Lispers and Greybeards among us, but you're not really going to find safer choices these days. Maybe toss in some PHP if you want (seriously, it _does_ still have jobs).
3) SQL + nitty-gritty knowledge of a specific database (PostgreSQL/CockroachDB, etc.) - Learn to do something useful with this. Pretty rare to see SQL hobby projects. May help you stand out. Look into Redis cache setups, etc. Maybe look into some unusual stuff like non-blocking R2DBC drivers if you're bored to stand out. NoSQL seems less likely to be requested as a specific skill, even though it's used a lot. Maybe it's safer to assume a regular/non-specialist dev can handle NoSQL compared to SQL?
Plus maybe some general Linux (RHEL is free now), Bash and config knowledge for Docker. Stay away from K8s/K3s unless you're going into DevOps.
Probably not going to need too much domain expertise when going this route.
Thank you for the video. I am grateful for your time and contribution. Kind regards, Akira.
1 thing I'm learning as I'm learning to code is the 1st language doesn't matter because they're all pretty much the same with slightly different syntax. I'd tell a noob to learn the language with the best beginner-friendly courses because they can learn another language within days.
Is C will do that purpose as first language for beginners?
@@azbaroj I'm no expert, but based on my research & me learning some C in my computer science course & comparing many languages, I'd say C is outdated.
@@azbaroj C++ is a updated version of C with new features like OOP & most people seem to also avoid C++.
The issue that I have with this is that lots of python developers are "build first, worry about it later". I haven't seen an awful lot of python code that I feel comfortable with in my 7 year career so far. In typescript I at least have a baseline of code quality that I can work with, but with python developers I already get hostility towards documenting, structuring and "strict typing" code because they'd rather have it working once and then never touch it again.
I've felt into this trap, learned a bit of python/django - wanted to do webdevelopment - however, I've started to see that here in Poland most webdev jobs are rather in JS than python - > I've already started learning JS and it is way easier when u already know the basics of some sort of language... it's all good though because journey continues !!! : )
Which websites you use to find jobs in Poland?/
Bruh i feel you 😭 i wasted my time with django where as my friends in my cs degree took the js route and got the job right away 😭
Yeah , but Man take your time -learn things through frequent project creating and have fun if there No sense of urgency
@@bavidlynx3409 I dont think thats a waste of time buddy, but yeah.
seems like it depends on where you live. In the philippines Python is becoming more ubiquitous just like php particularly in webdev field but not so much in data science.
I have also seen professionals in the data science field often say not only you need the data science knowledge but they will also ideally have domain expertise to the data they work on to interpret it.
For example, data science on the electrical grid is not going to be the same as financial transactions although it's all values variation over time.
Ideally know a field and then become a data scientist in that field, it avoids presenting the data in a way that doesn't makes sense in real life even if the numbers say so.
very well made video thanks for making your points clear and easy to understand
This is true for any programming language. Programming languages are tools to implement specific business concepts. It's just that some fields require much more specialization, like bioinformatics and artificial intelligence.
Very true. On the bright side, you can leverage raw python skills to get you foot in the door for many “non-technical” jobs. Using it to automate reports gives you a huge leg up on everyone else.
yes you are right .
CLerks job and desk job now are putting python as a requirement , in my country at least.
Depends on the company though. Some companies dont allow you to install any software in their work pcs.
I would say a big draw for making development remote for big organizations is that it allows them to reserve more office space for workers who actually need to be on-site and enable them to scale up the number of people working those positions. It's a massively underappreciated aspect of transitioning developers to remote work.
I'm glad you explained this to me before I signed up for a python course. Could you go deeper into your thoughts (pros & cons) of Kotlin?
This is correct. Python is a tool and a means to an end not an end in itself. I use python for some of my hdl and signal processing work, but I am also an electrical engineer who specializes in signal processing and digital design
I had a mechanical engineering degree. Learned python , Django and changed my career. Joined a company as a back-end developer. Now I work as a cloud data Engineer in another company.
Having gone through this journey, I would never suggest a fresh graduate or a person without any previous experience to learn python to get their first job. It is very hard to get a python job without any experience. People don't prefer back-end developers without experience especially if don't have a CS degree.
I would suggest to learn JavaScript, specifically React.js to get a job faster. Get into the industry, understand how programming works and then make the career transition into other fields.
Very good points made here. Many people are being sold on how "easy" python is to use when any paying career is going to go beyond any one programming language and there's a whole list of things a career software engineer has to learn, know and do that is programming language agnostic. Platform and/or Framework knowledge is far superior to knowledge of a specific programming language. For jobs - yeah - you'll want to know at least one of the languages the company uses, but software engineering is not just coding string manipulations, etc.. I'm glad Python is getting people excited about programming though... it's just not the magic bullet some people are making it out to be.
Anyone can learn English like anyone can learn Python. It is the basic building blocks of logical expression. But to write programs like Stephen king writes books is the difference. The skills and mindset of an engineer is what you're hired for, not just your proficiency in the language.
I don't know, where I am, Python backend is pretty big. Also, Python comes up in scripting, automation, devops, sysadmin, cloud... It's true that to work in Data you don't even need to be a Python pro, and learning python is hardly the most difficult skill you'll have to learn.
Python is an awesome language to write quick useful little utilities.
Excellent Swiss Army knife language
My job doesn’t require me to know python.
Actually I had my job before knowing anything on Python, however learning Python allowed me to get a promotion.
I work in the supply chain area and I work with a lot of data, with python especially pandas (in addition of SQL, EXCEL, PBI).
I could change my entire workflow and optimise a lot of data in my company.
I’m clearly not a python specialist (English neither haha) but it was definitely worth it
I'm 22 years-old, graduated with a business degree last October and I'm currently learning Python as my first technical skill. I chose Python as my first language to gain a good fundamental level and understanding of what coding and programming entails. In the future, I'd see myself add JavaScript to the mix and learn about React and Node. Any recommendations for my upcoming journey? Thanks!
In my case, it's quite the opposite. I'm confident with my math skills, but I think coding-wise, I'm just mediocre and can't compete with the people who has been coding since middle school or something (I only started to actually learn how to code back in 6th semester of college).
But truly, I just prefer works in data fields more. I don't really code because I like to develop stuffs, I just code because it helps me do my math faster.
Interesting video tho'. I will keep what you said in mind if I ever want to switch back to developer again (since I'm not really sure what the future holds for me).
Ive used python at FB and Amazon. Probably the most commonly used panguage for AWS lambda functions.
The delusion is thinking there is one programming language, one skill, one book, one course, one code BootCamp, and one coding competition. Like most things, a good developer needs a variety of tools in his tool belt, and the most important tool is being able to adapt and pick up new technology. Python is the most popular programming language (in the world) and it is general purpose. Due to its popularity, it is profitable, it is in AI (Pytorch, Tensorflow), and Web development (Django/Flask), also surprisingly despite its slow execution speed it is the most popular language for the backend. By no means is Python a silver bullet, and for anyone looking at a job in tech, I don't think it will be the only and final language you ever learn. But... it is easy to learn, fun to use allows for rapid prototyping, and has a massive supporting community. And just because you learn one language (i.e. Python) does not mean you cannot continue to learn others (Javascript, C++, Rust) as you see fit and as suit your specialisation and area of interest.
It is my personal experience that I have never learnt a programming language and thought it was a waste, each new language provides a new perspective to see the world, and improves your problem-solving ability. Take for example Haskell, a functional PL with next to no popularity in the industry, but an avid community of hobby developers. While I may never use it in production, the functional programming paradigm, e.g. monads, function composition, first-class functions, and currying, has been revolutionary in the way I tackle problems. The lessons I learnt along the way have changed how I program entirely. The same can be said for Python, the simplicity and zen of Python inspire me to write clean code for humans, not just compilers.
TLDR; Python is king; a developer is not just knowing a programming language; any learning is good; all languages have their tradeoffs but they also have their own lessons to teach.
I needed to hear this, im looking for a Python Job, but they really dont exist in the way that I would think they do. I guess its back to trying to learn JS... ughh.
Python is also pretty big in web development and in IT as a server scripting language. Its hot stuff in devops!
As having a degree on biomedical engineering for me switching into data related python jobs seemed quite easier for me rather than trying to figure it out web development or mobile stuff
Very true. I am a data scientist and I use python everyday; However, I only know of a few non data science/ML/AI jobs. Most of those jobs are for Django web development. Even then you still need JavaScript.
For data scientist, a Masters degree is becoming the defacto standard, although we have hired junior data scientists with bachelors degrees in Data Science, Statistics, and Computer Science.
yes even with learning php i have to learn another language mainly javascript .
But when I want to do linux than I have to learn bash and mainly python .
Absolutely agree. I am a Data Scientist and I got degrees in AI and Financial Engineering.
Thx uncle stef. 👍💖🤘🖖
I want to get a masters in data analysis, I have a bach in business and I am currently doing it all online, will get into courses and maybe a bootcamp and all the jazz. Very excited for the future. 👽☕👌🏻
Probably more permanent jobs available in C#. Also depends on which country you live in I guess.
Larger corporations/enterprises mostly. Python jobs...probably smaller companies, freelancing etc.
Yeah... I worked 7 years in a marketing research company implementing or maintaining their in-house toolset in the early 2000s. From etl, to frontend, reporting, and even implemented my own olap engine, bugger if I know what the market for data science wants. It seems it's more a question of half baked selection processes and biases that filter out experienced people. At this stage I ended up focusing on cloud and containers because I see that management sees no value in data analysis or feels that is for glorified management consultants, not for developers.
Funny thing about data science is you just need to know some statistics. The term data science apparently came about because Facebook had hired some PhD to do some data analysis, and the guy was offended by being given the title 'data analyst' so they changed the title to 'data scientist' and it stuck.
Most jobs are Web Dev, so JS for Front End and back end can be almost anything but JS is also popular there. JavaScript, Java and maybe Django are common for backend.
Generally, data science practitioners have a formal training in a specific field. Think someone studying economics or physics and then using python to run experiments to test their theories with. Or chemist simulating chemical reaction with python. Data science competitions seem to be won by these individuals who have experience doing research and coding is just a means to an end. You don’t usually find computer scientists winning data science competitions because they know the tools but don’t have domain knowledge for how to use them.
Or network automation. Python is huge in that field.
Ultimately, it's important to move away from degrees. I know people hate to hear that, but it's true. They're far too expensive, time-consuming, and classist. Most who are able to afford degrees over the next several years will be those who don't have middle-class issues like money, family, or opportunity-cost. It's important to democratize education and learning, and shy away from degrees. Yes, degrees can help, but as someone with a couple myself they aren't what they're cracked up to be. Hell, you'd be forgiven for thinking they're good, but the actuality of the degrees amounts to needless busy work, lack of real experience in the field of study, burnout, bureaucracy, and filler... so, so much filler.
Actually in Europe they are almost free
I think Python is great for learning basic programming concepts, from functional to OOP. JS is far uglier in my opinion, but for me it was a bit more useful to learn async stuff and probably web devleopment overall. Also most APIs have JavaScript examples, whereas with Python, there are packages that are just wrappers for those APIs. Not always the case, but it can be quite often.
However, I would also argue that on some level Django definitely makes Python worth it outside of the Data Science area. I've actually had quite a bit of clients wanting Django projects.
Also, if you can learn Python, you can learn the data science packages relatively easy. You just might not know the fancy data science terminology 😂. I helped someone with Robotics understand how to implement what they were looking for and I know next to nothing about robotics.
Anyways, with Python:
1. Learn basics / fundamentals (as stef says) and you can learn anything.
2. Clean code is universal to any language.
3. Django is awesome, and Data Science is also awesome but requires more knowledge than you think.
Having learned Python, and SQL of course, is it comparatively as easy to find independent work, as it is in web stack? Is there "any" independent work available in Python/Django?
I thought Django was on it's way out, like RoR. I started looking into the Fast API and Tornado libraries, as they're async, and a lot easier to learn than the Django framework.
@@redpillsatori3020 Oh really! Thanks!!
Python is not an OOP language.
I think Python can make it harder in a beginner because it hides some concepts by making things “easier”. I think for a beginner Java is probably better as a language, however installing anaconda and just running with it feels much easier to get the learning environment going.
It is not that difficult to get into data science and ai without a degree. Just don’t necessarily think FAANG. It also depends in which country you live…
true. retards from my uni get data anlysis jobs
I love this. To add to what you’re saying, when I got into web design and development, I pulled heavily from my graphic design background and education. Those adjacent skills followed me into full stack development and architecture.
Even a few classes in psychology has helped a lot. Diverse backgrounds can’t be encouraged enough.
For clarfication purposes... you're saying that your graphic design background helped you in your learning of web design & development? If yes, how so? I am a newbie, halfway thru Uncle Stef's HTML 5 course so I am all 👂🏼👂🏼👂🏼👂🏼
@@theosteknion6219 great question. Graphic design didn’t help me directly with the craft of coding. Rather, it helped me with determining the outcome of the coding. It helped me design interfaces that were usable, accessible, and marketable. The principles of design that you learn in design classes apply to the user experience. (I’ve even seen design courses on Pluralsight and Udemy for this reason.)
Coding for the sake of coding is fun, but not necessarily valuable. It becomes valuable when you code for a purpose. Developers who become familiar with the business domain of the companies they work for are especially valuable, as it’s essential for requirements analysis.
Best of luck on your development journey!
This sounds true very generally speaking, but there are definitely exceptions. I work in data, not full blown data science but doing data migrations, creating data driven reports, fixing issues through ad hoc SQL queries or python scripts, etc and when hiring new members to the team we really only look at 2 things in terms of technical skills or qualifications:
1. Do you know Python? (pandas is a plus, but you can learn it on the job if not)
2. Do you know basic SQL?
If you pass on this and we really like your attitude, you're a good fit. I imagine this might be relatively rare though.
How do you study the job-getting market? I would love to hear people's thoughts.
QA automation but as you say you need a background in what the python is being applied to.
Data prep work is often done in Python and doesn't require a degree. Data analysts and data engineers are often non-degreed, _but_ of course need data analytics skills, or at least a deep curiosity and interest in analytics.
I would add that, even though Python is fairly easy to start with, we should all strive for mastering our craft and look for better ways (software engineering). Also, having an area of domain (aka expert criteria) is important, since every industry has it's own perspective, not only from a data analytics view, but overall mindset.
Absolutely, the truth is that programming talent alone will only take you so far. You need to understand the business processes you are modelling if you want to actually build stuff that is useful and effective. Understand the problem. Sounds simple and yet so often...
Developing domain expertise can also be a great competitive moat. There is a legion of qualified developers out there but how many of them have industry experience with the unique challenges associated with manufacturing for the marine environment for instance? The pool shrinks rapidly and it makes networking a heck of a lot easier too.
@@telquel7843 I agree, programming is a mean to solve problems. However, if you specialize in solving a specific kind of problem, which solution is highly valuable by the market, then you become a valuable asset.
what do you think of more database-oriented jobs to enter software engineering/development? i've heard it can be a more accessible this way
Thank you "uncle" steph.
You are very welcome
What is the future of native mobile development? I see a lot of talk around PWAs lately
I’m a Cloud Engineer in AWS and GCP. Most of my projects involve writing microservices in Python as language of choice.
can confirm this, as someone with geoinformatics masters degree they said that they needed me to learn python to start but if i didnt know it was ok
I have learnt javascript and this language croos all barriers almost 80% of web is just frontend work hence you don't need to bother with learning another backend , frameworks are many but they all share similar structure and pattern . Php is awesome but learning a language gives you the common sense to choose the right tool for you next project.
Is PHP/laravel a good alternate to javascript for work without a degree if you have no interest in frontend? I started learning python but then stopped for the reasons you are giving in this video.
Andrew PHP is definitely a great alternative to to JS, and in my opinion it's even better than JS in order to land a job!
People have the same misconception about programming. Learning a language doesn't really mean much in itself. You need to have an understanding of data structures and algorithmic thinking to be useful. These patterns can be implemented in a wide variety of languages. You can always look up the syntax for expressing them.
Sure, familiarity with a libraries/methods/etc of a language will increase your productivity, but it's what you are doing with them that people will pay you for.
Similarly, part of the reason the internet is awash with low quality machine learning projects and analysis is that people "know python" but lack the statistical education to do meaningful (statistically significant) work with it. I'm not saying you have to use words like centroids, kurtosis, etc but understanding fundamental things like probability, correlation, distribution, and the central limit theorem are pretty integral to doing meaningful analysis.
The good news is that it's never been easier to learn about statistics (or just about anything) so you have no excuse for ignorance!
😉
Oh you're alive!
Do what I’m doing. I’m completing “Mimo” training and then will hopefully apply for “Mimo Camp” 6 months that translates into a job at either capgemini adesso or go student. Free in the App Store
Lots of decent paying Python Data Engineering jobs out there. I.e. prepping the data in platforms for analysis. I interview people for some of them.
I started with Python and if I could start all over again I would definitely have gone with JavaScript as my first language. It's not that much harder than Python and there are many more jobs in it. And, as you mentioned, I suppose PHP (for backend), Kotlin (for Android), or Swift (for iOS) would be a few other better choices than Python in terms of the job market. Java seems pretty ubiquitous too.
Cpp devs be like duh!!! 😂
as a tech recruiter, php is bad choice too because it got less job vacancy opening and you had less chance to negotiate your salary. A better choice were using NestJS, Golang or Java for backend, Nest was kinda new but the community grow larger everyday and will replace ExpressJs soon, while Java Spring Boot still had the most demand in the market you will land a job easily and negotiate salary easily
@@obesewan6632 Admittedly much of PHP's usage is due to the popularity of Laravel/Wordpress, but it is still extremely common in medium-large sized businesses outside of the tech bubble, erm, sector 😉
I don't deny that they exist, but I have personally never encountered an enterprise non-tech company that was using Node, Nest, Express, or any of the flavour the month JS frameworks honestly. Which makes sense because they want long term stability. How many times have people predicted the death of Java now? 🍿😄
As for salary negotiation, being an inexperienced one-trick-pony coder (if you weren't then this conversation wouldn't be relevant), it doesn't seem likely you'll be able to negotiate much anyway unless you have some really desirable domain expertise on top of it. And in that case, most of your negotiating power will be because of that domain expertise. 🤷
All that said, I wouldn't expect a very good job if all you know is how to code a website in PHP but that is pretty true of any language. "Knowing" a programming language doesn't mean much.
@@telquel7843 idk which country you were on and what job you do, but I talk based on my experience recruiting developers for many companies (in my current jobs I got 10 different companies in my country and 5 foreign countries from Europe and USA with various candidates requirements that need to be fulfilled. Based on the past and current clients they all got the same pattern in the job market)
being an inexperienced one-trick pony coder sure will give you the ability to negotiate as long as you chose the right language and framework. I mean it's a simple economic law, the higher the demand and the lower the supply, the higher the price will be.
JS people had a better chance to negotiate salary rather than PHP because there were a lot of PHP people rather than JS people who can do express or nest. Knowing a programming language does mean much
But back again, if PHP can beat other backend programming languages and can create a really good framework in the future, of course, the demand on the market will change
Many enterprise nontech companies don't use JS Framework because it came back on which type of industry are they in, different software requirements need a different programming language and framework. If they were banking, finance, or insurance industry, they do use Spring and rarely use Laravel or CodeIgniter
I agree with you, although I also think there should be a stronger consideration in running JS code on a browser vs terminal (Node).
My first attempt at coding started (and immediately failed) with JS, mainly due to the fact that I had trouble running my code. I got acquainted fast with ES6 modules as it's touted to be the "best" way but couldn't figure out that I had to run a server for that to work (I don't think I'm supposed to learn about all that when I'm just starting).
Plus, seeing my code run, if it ever ran, on a browser doesn't feel as good as on a terminal like "real" programmers do. There's a lot of setup for meager returns, if at all. It felt cheap and fake.
I'm well omw to a JS-based webdev career now, loving JS so much, though the languages that laid the foundations for me were C++ and Python. I just don't want beginners to feel as stupid as I did when I started, because it didn't have to be.
Data engineering / Software Engineer (Data) is pretty big now (and is python heavy), and it doesn't require specialisation in the same sense that data science does (i.e. there is a lot more crossover with a traditional software engineering role - many involve some amount of devops / cloud knowledge too, but that is becoming more standard these days I would think)
Yup, exactly right. Python is prototyping language for doing tricky things easily. It's not a valuable skill in and off itself.
Absolutely agree with this.
What is everyone’s thoughts in desktop application Development, currently really getting into C# and .NET overall :)
indeed. well i just use python for myself as i trade and always want analysis of real time markets. python, pandas, matplotlib and flask for me!
Therefore do not learn Python if I want to become a freelancer?
In stead, I should learn WordPress, php and MySQL?
I'm an electric engineering major in Korea. In the field(research), the executives tend to look for engineers and teach them computer stuff but rarely the other way around.
I wanna do data science I just don't want to use python so I'm looking into learning data science first, and doing it without a neural net
Many people search easy thinks...python transmit that everything is easy...but python jobs are much more than the knowledge of the online courses... Complex systems or complements to other knowledge...
I'm only 2:16 in, but wanted to say that a huge field you're missing for Python is Data Engineering--cousin to Data Science that improves the quality/accessibility of the data available to data scientists
for my desired job you need a masters in DSP but with my masters i can work in any industry essentially because DSP powers digital life
Great video! I don't code in Python myself, but I totally get your main point. To be in Data Science as a successful career, YOU NEED A DEGREE FIRST. Then learn programming either at the same time or closely afterwards. There is a huge contingent who rather promote the exact opposite, that you can somehow forgo all of the education and learning, take some summer boot camp or 3 months course and then boom, you land your $100k job. This is total delusion! But they get away with it. Why? Most young people today have absolutely no work ethic and want instant gratification.
Non-IT people don't understand that programming per se isn't particularly hard. Knowing what to make a program do is what is important, and that's wheret you need experience and training.
Once you know three programming languages, you'll realise they're all fundamentally the same, just different tools with different strengths and weknesses.
Of course, to get any entry-level job, you need at least 2 years job experience.
Job experience in the same field. Or simply job experience in big companies for example (but in a different sector; which is my case) ?
Python 'happens' to be used in the mentioned fields, it's not Python's forte or anything.
Analogy: learning to use a stove because cooking is done using it, and hoping to work as a chef.
I find your voice very relaxing
I just learn about Python in this past 3 months and suddenly your video caught in my algorithm. And now, I'm not even sure if I should continue to learn it 😔
Maybe Python is the way forward just because of what you just said. You need a combination of hard skills to back it up. This keeps the competition at bay. However, i suspect you need very high level of math to be really marketable, ie. PhD.
Every language is like this.
You’re just using the language to tell the computer what to do.
The real work is the designing, organization and often math.
I use python on my everyday. But I work for a spacial agency, they ask you for the computer science degree for sure and basically everyone there are Physics, engineers, computer scientists and so.
python skills, math skills, nun-chuck skills, bow hunting skills, you know....SKILLS!!!
Python -Cloud-Scripting
Python-Data engineering
Python-SQL-Data analysis
Python-Django-Flask-FastAPI-DRF
Python-Selenium-automation
But that's like firing up an excel sheet. Everyone should know basic python. Then it takes day till a week to master a given library. That what he is trying to say.
@@lucaszecat try mastering pandas in a month. try mastering scripting. try solving problems with numpy after learning for a week. even try mastering django in 3 months. you'll find out.
Getting into JS, PHP. I imagine to be a software engineer. Yeah, it does not require any kind of trainning. You just buy a server programming machine to do all the work for you.
I would add System Administration/Engineering (when it times to IT systems) to the places where python is extremely useful and don’t necessarily need a degree. It’s not a pure development job but the ability to automate common tasks and system fixes is an extremely in-demand skill in the IT world, and python ships with a large amount of modules by default with RHEL.
I think this is the most important thing to remember. Python is a great language to learn and an even better one to expand on. Don't be put off by the data science and AI talk, although Stef is right on that aspect. If you can do Python, you can learn to write automation scripts, you can learn how to use YAML, Ansible, etc. I do quick and dirty Python apps to do comparisons across datasets, transform data, etc. I don't have deep data science knowledge, but enough to glean insights that might not be seen if I did not create those apps.
Python is a great tool for working with data. If you're not too much into maths you can go for data engineering or analytics engineering. You'll need to learn about data including sql, but more generally as well. It's just used as a simple programming/scripting tool though so you don't need to know all of the ins and outs of python that's not the important part.
I thought data engineering involved math
Artificial Intelligence fascinates me so I have studied a lot of the math and theory and statistics. It will definitely challenge you as a programmer. But I still make my living doing SQL for the most part.
uncle steff is a real website now? OMG
Teacher: What do you want to be when you grow up, Timmy?
Timmy: I want to drive a car when I grow up!
Reminds me of programming. Basically everyone in a technical field could benefit from programming but their job is not just generic programming, it's specific.
Pretty much. Learning "python" in a data context is usually more about learning the different ML libraries, data visualization extensions, etc. Two people who specialize in python could "know" a completely different side of the language based solely on their use case.
Sort of like "knowing" Kung Fu doesn't mean you can fight 😆
You can get into data engineering with Python without the need for a mathematics degree. You will need supplementary skills like SQL too.
It is amusing to me that SQL would be considered a supplementary skill for a data engineer 🙃
@@telquel7843 Name one thing SQL can do that Python can't...
@@rhambo5554 I can see that you are extremely experienced in data engineering 🙄
I doubt you know what BCP is but putting a python wrapper around it doesn't suddenly make it python tool.
SQL and Python are not adversaries. They serve completely different functions.
@@telquel7843 I'm very experienced. Are you telling me you don't think Python can bulk copy from a SQL server db to disk?
You are not a complete data engineer if you just use SQL, saying whether or not Python can do some arbitrary proprietary command is missing the point of ingesting, transforming and presenting data in the wider sense. You can't call a REST api with SQL.
@@rhambo5554 I wrote out a better thought-out response and then accidentally clicked out and it got erased so here is a summary:
Python wrappers on BCP are much slower than native BCP and completely do not work at scale.
None of that matters though because Python is not intended to be used for nor is it good at dealing with transactions in an RDBMS.
Because you don't know that, I am positive that you are not a data engineer.
I don't just use SQL. In an average day I use a combination Java, PHP, C#, R, Python, JavaScript, SQL, VBScript, and SOQL/APEX (thanks to Salesforce).
If I am calling a REST API, it's probably one I developed for my company and I am probably doing so in JavaScript (though CORS can be quite annoying). But eventually, I will probably want to insert that data somewhere which will require SQL (I mostly deal with RDBMS).
Anyway, learning about luigi or apache airflow without knowing RDBMS and SQL really well is practically a meme in the data community at this point.
Just remember kids, getting a job is only half the battle. At some point you will allegedly be asked to actually DO the job.🙃
But maybe I am just old-fashioned and if you throw around enough new-wave tech stack buzzwords people will pay you to be clueless. It honestly could be true because the people hiring you probably have no idea what any of this means. 🤷
I think if you want to go into backend, Python is an good option but you should get a hang on Go of you want to earn better.