I don't mind sponsored videos as long as I learn something. Being transparent about the sponsorship is another boon I appreciate. Excellent closing advice to digital makers! The jury's still out on the long-term health effects of VOCs emitted by melting 3D printing filaments, so it's better safe than sorry.
Yea I legitimately trust Matthias to be impartial and to provide actual data. This is among the many reasons why I think I would trust sponsored videos from him more because I trust him to tell the truth.
It is a fact that UFPs (Ultra Fine Particulates) are emitted by the FFF/FDM 3D printing process with thermoplastics. There’s plenty of data proving the harmful nature of long term exposure to UFPs, especially in significant quantities. This is one of the reasons for the significant ventilation requirements for commercial kitchens. What is lacking is enough study in particular of the quantities of UFPs generated in the FFF/FDM printing process with various materials. If you’re running a print farm with multiple printers running 24/7, you likely have an air quality issue you should be addressing. If you have employees working in that environment, you DEFINITELY need to take this seriously. The questions come in with a consumer using 1 or 2 printers on a lower duty cycle - does this present a hazard to the occupants of the home? One significant issue however is that HEPA filters aren’t fine enough for UFPs. This is why solutions designed for the application often have 3 filter stages. A cheaper one to protect the more expensive filters from larger particulate. Then a HEPA filter, followed by an even finer stage filter. Dental office units can fill the criteria. But you may want to avoid any running UV light. As these can create ozone (sometimes sneakily referred to as “activated oxygen”) which some believe could be as harmful or worse than UFPs. The air filtration market is full of a lot of conflicting and confusing claims. Much of which is not backed up well by peer reviewed scientific study.
It is important, but my guess is over the time scale of these experiments, the slope of the curve on the log graph would be within experimental error of zero. For the smallest particles anyway.
You need to remember that if he showed a product that makes the sponsored product look bad he wouldn't be paid, that's what a sponsored video means. The Dyson is absurdly under-performing compared to almost any air purifier, and the other competitor is a furnace filter taped to a fan..
@@diego1694 that depends on the contract they agreed on. I'm pretty sure that Matthias negotiated being able to do a full non-biased test against the filters he already had. Cause that's the type of person he is. He will not take sponsoships if he cannot show that it's what it claims to be. Though if he had a better commercial air filter the story might be a bit different.
@@ratchet1freak Matthias isn't lying about anything, I am sure that everything that is said in the video is completely true. I am also sure that if there was a similar product for half the price that obtained similar results, the sponsor would never agree to allow Matthias to include it in the video. You can find other replies here where Matthias essentially admits to choosing the Dyson because he know it is not very good..
In all of this testing, I'm curious what the decay rate was with no filtering? How much does the air quality naturally improve over time compared to the various air cleaners?
I was wondering the same. I guess it would friend on whether the particles would land on the floor… as I typed this he said that smoke can hang in the air for days, so that answers that
The decay rate with no filter would be dependent on the building construction, available windows to open and everyone's setup is different. We always open the garage door in the shop I work in during the summer and with a fans running that seems quite effective in clearing paint fumes quick. Would be good to know his natural decay rate for this video though as that is a large space and I assume those small air filters are not performing that well on their own. He says 165 sq ft and it was roughly 40 minutes for the dreo on high to clean it and the box fan was not much longer. I've seen testing on TH-cam in a smaller 100 sq ft bedroom take an hour to clean to that level with the box fan filter.
I was about to say, we didn't get a control test to see what happens when the particles are left to settle, I'd like to see that. It could turn out the box fan is just a placebo
This video, and another, convinced me to make air filters with a box fan and two 20 x 20 furnace filters. I have one expensive filter that is rated for smoke sandwiched between the fan and a cheaper filter that catches the big stuff. Ideally that arrangement prolongs the life of the expensive filters. I am running two of these in my home while we're socked in with smoke from wildfires.
Very helpful. I have a $170 one on the way, and I am re-thinking to doing this. Plus to REPLACE the filter in the new one is 50bucks! These are about 10 bucks each!
@@Davethreshold The cheap filters are cheap, but if you want a furnace filter to clean smoke out of the air (MERV 11 or better) too ... mine cost $36 Canadian. But I don't have to change it often because the cheap filter catches all the big stuff.
@@IstasPumaNevada i have one of the dyson fans with the same filter but with fan/heater mode(it was a gift so i have no bias), its "nice", has a cool display that shows if it's detecting i think 4 different harmful particles in the air as it runs. it works really well as a room heater. i'd say it's the Apple of fans. only those who have money to spare will spend it on such an appliance, even if it isn't the best, but is the best looking and feeling
@@IstasPumaNevada I never liked Dyson because of their pricing, and really got tweaked by their "bladeless fan". Hiding a fan blade behind a grill doesn't make it bladeless!
I think you should’ve done a control test with dirty air for a while with no filter running at all. That would baseline the natural air leakage of the room and the particles settling out naturally.
As a guy with LOTS of box fans already, it'd be really interesting to see a test of which MERV rating is optimal for a box fan filter for the smallest particles from wood, 3dprinting, etc. I have to say this is an excellent way of presenting sponsored content. Well done.
@@jasonm.7358 The part that I don't really have the equipment to test is where the point is where a higher MERV rating is actually worse because of how much it restricts airflow. I'm in wildfire country (who isn't these days) and I have been running some low-end MERV13 filters on several box fans when it's really smoky out. It makes a noticeable difference but the noise gets old.
If sticking with 1" filters, the 3M Filtrete 1900 which is a MERV-13, shown in this video, is the optimal one. It has the lowest pressure drop of the entire line (hard to believe, but true, you can see why in the design with high pleat density). Otherwise most 2" MERV-13 are a good option.
If you're going to use the box fan, rather than placing a single filter on the back, I would take five filters, and make a box. That will give 4 or 5 times the filter area, reducing air flow restriction. With that, you can use the HEPA style high MERV filters, without restricting the air flow from the box fan. (If you place the apparatus on the floor, the bottom filter won't get much air)
To be totally scienktific you should have a control where you do nothing just to see how quick the stuff settles (if at all). Box fan with filter FTW based on cost/effectiveness IMHO.
Correct. Dust settles, even with a fan blowing, in about 30 minutes anyway. The smoke makes a good example because it stays airborne so long. If you have ever burned bacon, popcorn, or something, you know the smell lingers for like a day or two.
This is an excellent video. I feel like I learned a bunch about air filtering systems. And I'm motivated to tape a filter to a box fan to clean up the dusty air in my house now. I'm surprised at how well that actually worked!
I did exactly that during wildfire season a few years ago. It really helps, and was comparatively very cheap. I set up multiple fans to try to swirl the air around the larger rooms. Only issue was the noise level - I'd run them during the day if it was really bad, but otherwise I tried to run them overnight (while I was in a different part of the house) or while I was out.
You actually manage to make sponsored content interesting. Bravo, well done! Also props for Dreo for being so brave as to let you put their product to the test.
I winced a bit with the "product placement aspect" but the one thing I've learned is; "you talk, I listen"... GR8T VIDEO. Super Dreo Product. Thank for your time. Cheers.
I know that sponsor videos are tough to negotiate to the sponsor - but this kind of videos is far better to see than clasical - its new and its the best thing ever, trust me... this honesty is what we want to see and if its a best - let it be
A couple notes about the homemade filters: 1. For best performance you may want to tape the edges of the furnace filter so there's no leakage. 2. A slightly dirty filter will filter better than a new one until it's too dirty.
@@jandrewmore I will admit that furniture is not a common find even where I live, and it was several miles away from home. I only mentioned it because a lot of things used on this channel are found in the trash.
This was absolutely fascinating. Fast, informative. Your comments about the sources of dust at the end of the video make so much sense, but I hadn't thought about it before.
Thank you I had no idea that all those things you mentioned actually rise the particle count. I have literally been using my purifiers wrong or at wrong time. Thanks again Matthias for very informational video.
Very well done, and as others have said, there’s no problem with openly-disclosed sponsored videos with objective test methodology. => Big props for the log plots! It made it so easy to translate the curves into rates. I was well-familiar with log plotting, but I still learned something :-)
"No problem"? Openly-discussed sponsorships should be the norm for sponsorships. Are people expressing concern about how open Matthias is with his sponsorships? That's actually one of the reasons I respect him.
@@PBTophie I think what they mean is this is the right way to do them, in contrast with sponsorships they do have a problem with where they are just "product placement" or, even worse, "product praise" videos.
Every time I watch a Matthias video, I learn something, but that point about digital making and air quality ... wow, thanks, I had never even considered that.
@@mlindholm Yeah, that makes sense... I guess I'm not clear on where the line between molecule and particle is, in terms of health impact from particles lodging in the lungs, or whether it's even a particularly relevant distinction; I just assumed that whatever off-gasses from glue guns wouldn't be detected by the particulate sensor he was using or have the potential to be harmful aside from whatever immediate/acute impact it had. Like, I know I shouldn't breath acetone vapors, but I don't think of them as particulate pollution, and my impression of the sensor he is using is that it's detecting the latter, and I would have assumed that glue guns would be the former...
If you’ve never used an air filter these are great. th-cam.com/users/postUgkx_dppjvjF8BYEmPSDTcgCUdRsgWYLXNHN I ended up with three after starting out with one. The noise level depends on the 1-3 settings with how hard you want the machine to work. You can also upgrade the filters and get one better for pet hair and smells which is a must have in my home. I noticed the air seemed lighter and easier to breathe when running the machine for the first time. Works great every time. Highly recommended!
So basically you can spend a TON of money on a Dyson that is loud, but will impress your trendy friends, spend a moderate amount of money on the Dreo, which is compact, works better than the Dyson, well designed and most spouses won't complain about how it looks, or stop at a hardware store, and get a moderately priced furnace filter after finding a fan a local yard sale, assuming you can't just find a fan sitting on the side of the road and do about the same job. Excellent video as always, and well reasoned out. You didn't say it, but after watching your channel for many years, I feel that if the sponsor hadn't done well, we would know, and why. Maybe Dyson should take some hints. Thanks for your hard work.
Excellent comparison, Matthias. I have done many of your carpentry projects, but this video though different, fascinated my daughter and I. Thank you for sharing.
Your sponsored vids are in a league of their own, were else would someone expect to see such a concise conclusion using your goto gadgets. If I was the sponsor I would be quite pleased with your analysis.
Glad I found this video, it affirmed my opinion and other tests on TH-cam about box fans. As others have said, a baseline would’ve really add more merit to the test results. Having said that, the “nose” I think is a more sensitive sensor than the devices: if you can smell it, then there’s particles or molecules in the air! Wood particles and dust may be difficult to detect but short of some odourless chemicals, just about anything we use has some smell. Im in my 60’s and grew up with cooking smells even though we had a vent, I’ve soldered tons of times with no vent, painted rooms with the old oils based paints that almost made you faint by the time you finished a room, and numerous other consumables that by todays standards are dangerous. I’m glad and thankful this generation doesn’t have to go through all this crap today, they have more knowledge and tools to make the air safer and your video is a good example of such tools and lets us make better decisions against the marketing giants.
There are two types of fans being utilized here, axial and centrifugal. Your axial fan is the box fan, it is really good at moving large volumes of air at low pressure, no filter on the intake. When you place a filter on it you drop the air volume efficiency and add additional load to the motor. Centrifugal fans are great at moving air under pressure, filter in front of the intake.
Really great to see you getting to work with companies that pique your interests already, a decent product, definitely thinking about my new workshop and whether to get one.
Sponsor: Hi Matthias, would you be interested in doing a sponsored video for us? Matthias: Yes, but please be aware I will force your product to run the gauntlet Sponsor: I don't know what that means, but okay.
You would boost the air flow through the filter by 35% on the Lasko Box fan if you add a 15" diameter circular shroud on the exit. If you step the filter off the back by adding a spacer there is more area available and it adds some extra percent of flow.
During the severe bush fires we had in Australia the smoke levels were so high that my wife was dry vomiting and could not sleep. Our choice of air purifiers was limited so we had no choice but to buy a Dyson purifier, desk version. Honestly this filter saved us. It took about 4 hours to clear a room you could walk out of the room it was in and notice the difference in smell immediately. Eventually the whole house was filtered to various degrees and my wife was able to get to sleep. Once we thought it was not working but opening the front door to see, we’ll actually not see, that the smoke haze was the worst it has ever been and quickly realise the filter was working but because the house is not sealed the smoke was seeping in. Still the Dyson kept the particles to a safe level. We love our Dyson.
Great video. I think the reason the old filter and dust collectors worked as well as they did was because filters generally get "better" over time. They build up a cake of particles that trap finer things than new filters. Unfortunately this means they require higher static pressure. I bet a new Filtrete would lose to the old one too.
I can't remember another time Matthias actually recommended buying a thing instead of making it. That definitely grabs my attention more than other channels that constantly promote buying things.
How about a Corsi-Rosenthal box/cube? Same theory as the box-fan-filter, but with enough filter surface area to actually have nearly full airflow from the fan.
Wow - Outstanding job! Thank you for taking all the time to post this - extremely helpful. Many years ago I was a fan of Dyson, but they cost way to much for what you get nowadays - this review really puts creditability to my beliefs. This video took a ton of time/work and thank you again for posting - really well done!
Your homemade filter with fan - mechanical filters become more efficient as they're progressively loaded with particles with use essentially able to turn into HEPA filters if sufficiently "clogged". This is why I like to use a mechanical filter with an electronic filter in cascade - electronic filters loses efficiency as the collection places get loaded, so the complementary performance makes the two a perfect mate together.
Matthias, I never thought you would have another sponsored video, but can now understand why. Didn't expect the cause of most air problems to NOT be our wood working tools. Thanks.
Great to see you embracing sponsors Matthais, I really do love your openess and transparency from the outset, I also love the fact that even as they are sponsoring you for this video, if it sucked (pardon the pun), you'd also tell us and release the video anyway! Looking forward to the next one, :-)
Nice. I really like the purpose built monitoring port in the Dreo and will definitely be considering it now. It was not on my radar yet so well done on them by choosing you to test it.
I really enjoy your sponsored videos because you do such thorough testing and comparison versus cheap alternatives. I hate when a wood worker pops in with hello fresh sponsorship. What does that have to do with anything they are talking about. Obvious money grab. Love your channels Matthias.
THANK YOU for this. All of the Dyson gear seems to be all style and no substance. It reminds me of the company, "Sharper Image." EVERYTHING they make is good looking junk. I am SHOCKED at how your box fan rig stood up to these. I'm posting this on a few FB pages. ❤
This is great! Thank you very much- Weed and cigarette smoker’s in the apartment house and naturally it comes through the door cracks and straight into mine :/
A truly well done and useful video. I will seriously consider buying a Dreo. I live in California and bought a portable HEPA filter last year and was surprised that it went to high power whenever we cooked or used any cleaning products like Febreze. We could use another in the back of the house. Also, I really like your simple fan filter and plan on building one for my garage shop.
I wonder how the ikea air cleaner would have performed. It seems that it comes down to the filter since it is also a big box with a fan attached to its center
Wow! This was a really fun video to watch. It's timely for me as I've been have very high dust levels in my garage while wood working. In the winter and early spring it is pretty cold and windy, especially at night, so it is not practical to leave all the garage doors open. I have been trying to decide between making a fancy one or buying one. I love your simple home made one for the garage. But, I think your sponsored one might be better near the wood stove in the house. Thanks for all the effort you put into this. You made my day with all the data collection, analysis, and presentation!!! 😃
That filter shouldn't run while doing woodworking, a HEPA filter would be ruined in no time. Leave, let the dust settle 5-10 minutes, then come back and turn it on for nice clean air. You probably know that, so take it for what it's worth.
I like videos like this. I have nothing against sponsored videos so long as everything is fair. It's interesting to see the performance of different solutions too. I suspected Dyson was all about looking good rather than working good.
Dyson purifier fans have had had the same issue since the beginning really - as you point out the primary air flow (that's drawn through the filter) only accounts for about 30% of the amplifier's throughput. They're more of a room fan with a filter attached than a dedicated air purifier. A lot of their marketing guff used to focus on filtration quality (size of particles and types of contamination removed etc) rather than time taken to remove airborne contaminants.
I have the humidifier version of this (same thing, with ability to add moisture to the air!) and it's really good. But I would never have paid full price for it. I happened to get it for about 40% off as unopened on eBay. I like how it works and how it looks but you definitely have to recognize that you are paying a decent "style" premium (A bit like Bang & Olufsen!)
Considering how it only takes an extra couple of minutes to do the same job, its probably the fact that its damned expensive and your paying for the "luxury" of it. Other than that, it doesn't seem to be a bad product at all.
In this setup, yes, the dyson only took a little longer. They all went from dirty air to clean air. But with the Dreo doing it faster, you can think of it clearing a bigger room in the same amount of time. Or having less noise, and shorter noise duration to do the same ting.
@@brookead Ah looks like they've gone with an evaporative humidifier now - I remember all the humidifier projects getting canned because there were complaints with first generation ones covering peoples' desks with limescale.
This is a copy/paste of the CBS News air purifier lab test 1), where you picked the second worse performing but by far the most expensive air purifier in their test (Dyson), filter slapped on a fan (also in their test), and a sponsored air purifier. Perfect set up to make the sponsored purifier look good. #1 Their test can found on youtube under the title "Is an $800 purifier best to clean your home's air? We lab tested 5 top brands"
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Pimp out with a higher MERV rated filter and/or 2" and 4" thick filters. Then compare to this video and your previous referenced as well. Seems silly not comparing to the 4 or 5 filter versions while at it. That'd be awesome. Wondering about other filters like maybe an electrostatic pre-filter and/or carbon filters maybe?
I made a few air filters inspired by your air filters a couple of years ago and I used them through covid thinking they were probably doing something. I was kind of surprised air filtration wasn't a general recommendation for covid.
A very good product test! I would have liked to see a controll test without any purifier fan just to see how long the particles stay airbourne. But still, interesting stuff!
It might be interesting to try ridiculous mode where you run the same test with every filter at once (assuming circuit in shop can handle). See how short you can get the time to clear the particulate. I expect the result would be "more filter more better" but assume there is a point of diminishing returns.
Wow, I've actually needed a new air purifier for a while, I have a like 15 year old filter queen and it just does not move enough air to clean anything well anymore. Not quite ready for the impulse purchase of one today, but when I do buy a new one, I'll make sure to purchase it through your link :)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't mind sponsored videos as long as I learn something. Being transparent about the sponsorship is another boon I appreciate. Excellent closing advice to digital makers! The jury's still out on the long-term health effects of VOCs emitted by melting 3D printing filaments, so it's better safe than sorry.
Don't mind comments as long as you don't mind anything.
Yea I legitimately trust Matthias to be impartial and to provide actual data. This is among the many reasons why I think I would trust sponsored videos from him more because I trust him to tell the truth.
It is a fact that UFPs (Ultra Fine Particulates) are emitted by the FFF/FDM 3D printing process with thermoplastics. There’s plenty of data proving the harmful nature of long term exposure to UFPs, especially in significant quantities. This is one of the reasons for the significant ventilation requirements for commercial kitchens. What is lacking is enough study in particular of the quantities of UFPs generated in the FFF/FDM printing process with various materials.
If you’re running a print farm with multiple printers running 24/7, you likely have an air quality issue you should be addressing. If you have employees working in that environment, you DEFINITELY need to take this seriously. The questions come in with a consumer using 1 or 2 printers on a lower duty cycle - does this present a hazard to the occupants of the home?
One significant issue however is that HEPA filters aren’t fine enough for UFPs. This is why solutions designed for the application often have 3 filter stages. A cheaper one to protect the more expensive filters from larger particulate. Then a HEPA filter, followed by an even finer stage filter.
Dental office units can fill the criteria. But you may want to avoid any running UV light. As these can create ozone (sometimes sneakily referred to as “activated oxygen”) which some believe could be as harmful or worse than UFPs.
The air filtration market is full of a lot of conflicting and confusing claims. Much of which is not backed up well by peer reviewed scientific study.
@@barrettdent405 This unit that sponsored him has 3 stages, with the 3rd being a carbon filter.
Dyson air purifiers are complete garbage
One thing I noticed was missing from your experiments was a comparison against a no-fan mode, to see how the "pollution" behaved with no air cleaning.
That's actually a good point, to see the rate at which the particles naturally settle out.
This is what I wanted to see. Science needs a control.
It is important, but my guess is over the time scale of these experiments, the slope of the curve on the log graph would be within experimental error of zero. For the smallest particles anyway.
@@alans1816 Matthias did say that some of the particles can stay in the air for days.
@@SuperDavidEF True, but that would be the control aspect of the experiment. Without it you don't know exactly how much quicker something works
Love it when a sponsors product actually is tested properly and holds up, very much worth the effort!
You need to remember that if he showed a product that makes the sponsored product look bad he wouldn't be paid, that's what a sponsored video means. The Dyson is absurdly under-performing compared to almost any air purifier, and the other competitor is a furnace filter taped to a fan..
@@diego1694 that depends on the contract they agreed on. I'm pretty sure that Matthias negotiated being able to do a full non-biased test against the filters he already had. Cause that's the type of person he is. He will not take sponsoships if he cannot show that it's what it claims to be.
Though if he had a better commercial air filter the story might be a bit different.
@@ratchet1freak Matthias isn't lying about anything, I am sure that everything that is said in the video is completely true. I am also sure that if there was a similar product for half the price that obtained similar results, the sponsor would never agree to allow Matthias to include it in the video. You can find other replies here where Matthias essentially admits to choosing the Dyson because he know it is not very good..
In all of this testing, I'm curious what the decay rate was with no filtering? How much does the air quality naturally improve over time compared to the various air cleaners?
Oh that's a good point I hope he addresses that.
I was wondering the same. I guess it would friend on whether the particles would land on the floor… as I typed this he said that smoke can hang in the air for days, so that answers that
The decay rate with no filter would be dependent on the building construction, available windows to open and everyone's setup is different. We always open the garage door in the shop I work in during the summer and with a fans running that seems quite effective in clearing paint fumes quick. Would be good to know his natural decay rate for this video though as that is a large space and I assume those small air filters are not performing that well on their own. He says 165 sq ft and it was roughly 40 minutes for the dreo on high to clean it and the box fan was not much longer. I've seen testing on TH-cam in a smaller 100 sq ft bedroom take an hour to clean to that level with the box fan filter.
That's my thoughts as well, this test is not really worth much, without a baseline
I was about to say, we didn't get a control test to see what happens when the particles are left to settle, I'd like to see that. It could turn out the box fan is just a placebo
This video, and another, convinced me to make air filters with a box fan and two 20 x 20 furnace filters. I have one expensive filter that is rated for smoke sandwiched between the fan and a cheaper filter that catches the big stuff. Ideally that arrangement prolongs the life of the expensive filters. I am running two of these in my home while we're socked in with smoke from wildfires.
Very helpful. I have a $170 one on the way, and I am re-thinking to doing this. Plus to REPLACE the filter in the new one is 50bucks! These are about 10 bucks each!
@@Davethreshold The cheap filters are cheap, but if you want a furnace filter to clean smoke out of the air (MERV 11 or better) too ... mine cost $36 Canadian. But I don't have to change it often because the cheap filter catches all the big stuff.
3:54 I love how a simple box fan with a filter is better than the Dyson!
Dyson once more proving that, at best, they make adequate products that are comically overpriced.
@@IstasPumaNevada Dyson makes decent products that look outstanding and are priced accordingly.
@@IstasPumaNevada i have one of the dyson fans with the same filter but with fan/heater mode(it was a gift so i have no bias), its "nice", has a cool display that shows if it's detecting i think 4 different harmful particles in the air as it runs. it works really well as a room heater. i'd say it's the Apple of fans. only those who have money to spare will spend it on such an appliance, even if it isn't the best, but is the best looking and feeling
Dyson is the Apple of appliances, and it makes me happy when they lose.
@@IstasPumaNevada I never liked Dyson because of their pricing, and really got tweaked by their "bladeless fan". Hiding a fan blade behind a grill doesn't make it bladeless!
I think you should’ve done a control test with dirty air for a while with no filter running at all. That would baseline the natural air leakage of the room and the particles settling out naturally.
As a guy with LOTS of box fans already, it'd be really interesting to see a test of which MERV rating is optimal for a box fan filter for the smallest particles from wood, 3dprinting, etc. I have to say this is an excellent way of presenting sponsored content. Well done.
Yeah, I was also going to ask what MERV filtrete filter that was - there's all different levels
Yeah; you’d have to think a 4” Merv13 filter on the box fan might clobber everything… or burn the fan up, one.
@@jasonm.7358 The part that I don't really have the equipment to test is where the point is where a higher MERV rating is actually worse because of how much it restricts airflow. I'm in wildfire country (who isn't these days) and I have been running some low-end MERV13 filters on several box fans when it's really smoky out. It makes a noticeable difference but the noise gets old.
If sticking with 1" filters, the 3M Filtrete 1900 which is a MERV-13, shown in this video, is the optimal one. It has the lowest pressure drop of the entire line (hard to believe, but true, you can see why in the design with high pleat density). Otherwise most 2" MERV-13 are a good option.
If you're going to use the box fan, rather than placing a single filter on the back, I would take five filters, and make a box. That will give 4 or 5 times the filter area, reducing air flow restriction. With that, you can use the HEPA style high MERV filters, without restricting the air flow from the box fan. (If you place the apparatus on the floor, the bottom filter won't get much air)
To be totally scienktific you should have a control where you do nothing just to see how quick the stuff settles (if at all). Box fan with filter FTW based on cost/effectiveness IMHO.
Indeed, I was thinking that was missing.
He kind of did it with the ineffective filter, but didnt show us the result.
Correct. Dust settles, even with a fan blowing, in about 30 minutes anyway. The smoke makes a good example because it stays airborne so long. If you have ever burned bacon, popcorn, or something, you know the smell lingers for like a day or two.
Ngl, that wouldnt just be scientific, i think its necessary as a measuring tool of "how much is natural decay and how much is the filter's doing"
@@atatdotdot scientific*
This is an excellent video. I feel like I learned a bunch about air filtering systems. And I'm motivated to tape a filter to a box fan to clean up the dusty air in my house now. I'm surprised at how well that actually worked!
Lol. Me too. Thinking of putting one in every room actually. Maybe rig up something that runs it x minutes per day
I did exactly that during wildfire season a few years ago. It really helps, and was comparatively very cheap. I set up multiple fans to try to swirl the air around the larger rooms. Only issue was the noise level - I'd run them during the day if it was really bad, but otherwise I tried to run them overnight (while I was in a different part of the house) or while I was out.
There’s something so satisfying about watching you do all these test. Thank you sir I appreciate all your hard work.
You actually manage to make sponsored content interesting. Bravo, well done! Also props for Dreo for being so brave as to let you put their product to the test.
I winced a bit with the "product placement aspect" but the one thing I've learned is; "you talk, I listen"... GR8T VIDEO. Super Dreo Product. Thank for your time. Cheers.
I know that sponsor videos are tough to negotiate to the sponsor - but this kind of videos is far better to see than clasical - its new and its the best thing ever, trust me... this honesty is what we want to see and if its a best - let it be
This was a great ad for box fan with a filter duct-taped to it.
yes, that can work quite well, but noisy and big. but it’s what I’d recommend if you just need to know if an air purifier will improve your situation.
A couple notes about the homemade filters:
1. For best performance you may want to tape the edges of the furnace filter so there's no leakage.
2. A slightly dirty filter will filter better than a new one until it's too dirty.
It tweaks me when I hear people say "a dirty filter doesn't filter" when in fact they filter better, just slower. No 2. was *perfectly* stated!
The way you approach sponsorships is great for everyone involved in my opinion.
The data visualizations are especially appreciated
The Dyson looks mighty high tech, but I love the homemade air cleaner better, it looks sweet and still highly efficient.
And CHEAP! Even the sponsor seems a bit price to me compared to the $20 box fan special from Wal-mart.
@@jandrewmore Or a pedestal fan from the side of the road.
@@user2C47 You've got better luck (or richer neighbors) than I do. I'm happy if I can find some plywood, and that was before lumber prices went nuts.
@@jandrewmore I will admit that furniture is not a common find even where I live, and it was several miles away from home. I only mentioned it because a lot of things used on this channel are found in the trash.
This was absolutely fascinating. Fast, informative. Your comments about the sources of dust at the end of the video make so much sense, but I hadn't thought about it before.
Thank you I had no idea that all those things you mentioned actually rise the particle count. I have literally been using my purifiers wrong or at wrong time. Thanks again Matthias for very informational video.
Very well done, and as others have said, there’s no problem with openly-disclosed sponsored videos with objective test methodology.
=> Big props for the log plots! It made it so easy to translate the curves into rates. I was well-familiar with log plotting, but I still learned something :-)
"No problem"? Openly-discussed sponsorships should be the norm for sponsorships.
Are people expressing concern about how open Matthias is with his sponsorships? That's actually one of the reasons I respect him.
@@PBTophie I think what they mean is this is the right way to do them, in contrast with sponsorships they do have a problem with where they are just "product placement" or, even worse, "product praise" videos.
Every time I watch a Matthias video, I learn something, but that point about digital making and air quality ... wow, thanks, I had never even considered that.
Whoa... The glue gun observation caught me off guard. I expected my soldering to cause particulates, but not the glue gun...
Any odor a product causes is technically airborne pollution, whether particles or VOC caused.
@@mlindholm Yeah, that makes sense... I guess I'm not clear on where the line between molecule and particle is, in terms of health impact from particles lodging in the lungs, or whether it's even a particularly relevant distinction; I just assumed that whatever off-gasses from glue guns wouldn't be detected by the particulate sensor he was using or have the potential to be harmful aside from whatever immediate/acute impact it had. Like, I know I shouldn't breath acetone vapors, but I don't think of them as particulate pollution, and my impression of the sensor he is using is that it's detecting the latter, and I would have assumed that glue guns would be the former...
I'm really enjoying the sponsored videos. You always give a really fair assessment. It's honestly refreshing
If you’ve never used an air filter these are great. th-cam.com/users/postUgkx_dppjvjF8BYEmPSDTcgCUdRsgWYLXNHN I ended up with three after starting out with one. The noise level depends on the 1-3 settings with how hard you want the machine to work. You can also upgrade the filters and get one better for pet hair and smells which is a must have in my home. I noticed the air seemed lighter and easier to breathe when running the machine for the first time. Works great every time. Highly recommended!
I love your sponsored videos. Because you aren't afraid to really pit them up and see just how good they are. Great vid, very informative.
this is probably the best marketing dollars Dreo has ever spent. Great job
Since we know you'd be frank & honest in your reviews, I kind of enjoy your sponsored videos as much as your build videos. Well done!
I've been using a box fan and filter for a long while now. I'm glad to see it actually works.
So basically you can spend a TON of money on a Dyson that is loud, but will impress your trendy friends, spend a moderate amount of money on the Dreo, which is compact, works better than the Dyson, well designed and most spouses won't complain about how it looks, or stop at a hardware store, and get a moderately priced furnace filter after finding a fan a local yard sale, assuming you can't just find a fan sitting on the side of the road and do about the same job. Excellent video as always, and well reasoned out. You didn't say it, but after watching your channel for many years, I feel that if the sponsor hadn't done well, we would know, and why. Maybe Dyson should take some hints. Thanks for your hard work.
Excellent comparison, Matthias. I have done many of your carpentry projects, but this video though different, fascinated my daughter and I. Thank you for sharing.
Tremendous video. This is EXACTLY what sponsored videos should be. Thanks Matthias!
Man what a fair and balanced review. Not to mention such geeky stats. This is how you do Ads, people. Good video as always, Matthias.
Best sponsored video I've seen in a long time. Surprising results.
i admire how responsibly you did the sponsored test. i really wish there was more data driven sponsored videos, when practical.
Your sponsored vids are in a league of their own, were else would someone expect to see such a concise conclusion using your goto gadgets.
If I was the sponsor I would be quite pleased with your analysis.
Really interesting point about lots of particulates generated with hot glue, soldering, etc. I hadn't connected that in my head. Great job, as always!
Glad I found this video, it affirmed my opinion and other tests on TH-cam about box fans. As others have said, a baseline would’ve really add more merit to the test results. Having said that, the “nose” I think is a more sensitive sensor than the devices: if you can smell it, then there’s particles or molecules in the air! Wood particles and dust may be difficult to detect but short of some odourless chemicals, just about anything we use has some smell. Im in my 60’s and grew up with cooking smells even though we had a vent, I’ve soldered tons of times with no vent, painted rooms with the old oils based paints that almost made you faint by the time you finished a room, and numerous other consumables that by todays standards are dangerous. I’m glad and thankful this generation doesn’t have to go through all this crap today, they have more knowledge and tools to make the air safer and your video is a good example of such tools and lets us make better decisions against the marketing giants.
Okay so I watched you video and was impressed by the data, soooo I went straight to Amazon and bought one. Thank you for the video.
Good PSA for people with 3D printers, especially in small apartments or rooms!
There are two types of fans being utilized here, axial and centrifugal. Your axial fan is the box fan, it is really good at moving large volumes of air at low pressure, no filter on the intake. When you place a filter on it you drop the air volume efficiency and add additional load to the motor. Centrifugal fans are great at moving air under pressure, filter in front of the intake.
small correction, when you block/restrict the airflow it reduces the load on the motor not increase
This may be a good point for viewers. But Matthias knows all this stuff. He has a long history of building air cleaners for the shop. Just FYI.
Seeing Matthias' relief as he realizes the product isn't terrible is the best aspect of these sponsored vids :D
Really great to see you getting to work with companies that pique your interests already, a decent product, definitely thinking about my new workshop and whether to get one.
Sponsor: Hi Matthias, would you be interested in doing a sponsored video for us?
Matthias: Yes, but please be aware I will force your product to run the gauntlet
Sponsor: I don't know what that means, but okay.
You would boost the air flow through the filter by 35% on the Lasko Box fan if you add a 15" diameter circular shroud on the exit. If you step the filter off the back by adding a spacer there is more area available and it adds some extra percent of flow.
Get the Dreo air purifier using this link: woodgears.ca/dr/ap
25% Discount code, valid to Nov 15 2022: JWQB86M6DEPA
Not available in Canada?
Question: how good is a old/new t-shirt over a table fan on low?
@@jstreutker it's available in Canada at 339.42 and free shipping what a deal
Ain't I happy that you did a video like this. I needed a small air purifier for my place. Shit, I think the sponsored videos are getting to me.
@@MrHack4never probably just as bad as the useless old style furnace filters that only keep the chunks out.
wow, i'm quite impressed by the performance of the box fan variants
During the severe bush fires we had in Australia the smoke levels were so high that my wife was dry vomiting and could not sleep. Our choice of air purifiers was limited so we had no choice but to buy a Dyson purifier, desk version.
Honestly this filter saved us. It took about 4 hours to clear a room you could walk out of the room it was in and notice the difference in smell immediately. Eventually the whole house was filtered to various degrees and my wife was able to get to sleep. Once we thought it was not working but opening the front door to see, we’ll actually not see, that the smoke haze was the worst it has ever been and quickly realise the filter was working but because the house is not sealed the smoke was seeping in. Still the Dyson kept the particles to a safe level. We love our Dyson.
Great video. I think the reason the old filter and dust collectors worked as well as they did was because filters generally get "better" over time. They build up a cake of particles that trap finer things than new filters. Unfortunately this means they require higher static pressure. I bet a new Filtrete would lose to the old one too.
I didn't know that a glue gun would be a problem regarding particles in the air. Thx for the info and a good video 😊
I can't remember another time Matthias actually recommended buying a thing instead of making it. That definitely grabs my attention more than other channels that constantly promote buying things.
great video!
I love to see when sponsored videos are positive because it's actually performing well
How about a Corsi-Rosenthal box/cube? Same theory as the box-fan-filter, but with enough filter surface area to actually have nearly full airflow from the fan.
Wow - Outstanding job! Thank you for taking all the time to post this - extremely helpful. Many years ago I was a fan of Dyson, but they cost way to much for what you get nowadays - this review really puts creditability to my beliefs. This video took a ton of time/work and thank you again for posting - really well done!
Awesome I've been looking for an air purifier!
Your homemade filter with fan - mechanical filters become more efficient as they're progressively loaded with particles with use essentially able to turn into HEPA filters if sufficiently "clogged". This is why I like to use a mechanical filter with an electronic filter in cascade - electronic filters loses efficiency as the collection places get loaded, so the complementary performance makes the two a perfect mate together.
Matthias, I never thought you would have another sponsored video, but can now understand why. Didn't expect the cause of most air problems to NOT be our wood working tools. Thanks.
Great to see you embracing sponsors Matthais, I really do love your openess and transparency from the outset, I also love the fact that even as they are sponsoring you for this video, if it sucked (pardon the pun), you'd also tell us and release the video anyway!
Looking forward to the next one, :-)
Nice. I really like the purpose built monitoring port in the Dreo and will definitely be considering it now. It was not on my radar yet so well done on them by choosing you to test it.
I was surprised the Dyson didn't work best. I wouldn't pay that kind of money for fan. I really liked the box fan filter version. Good video.
Thank you for the extensive testing, I have decided to buy a 3M filter for my box fan
I really enjoy your sponsored videos because you do such thorough testing and comparison versus cheap alternatives. I hate when a wood worker pops in with hello fresh sponsorship. What does that have to do with anything they are talking about. Obvious money grab. Love your channels Matthias.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is you how you do an ad. Well done Matthias
THANK YOU for this. All of the Dyson gear seems to be all style and no substance. It reminds me of the company, "Sharper Image." EVERYTHING they make is good looking junk. I am SHOCKED at how your box fan rig stood up to these. I'm posting this on a few FB pages. ❤
This is great! Thank you very much- Weed and cigarette smoker’s in the apartment house and naturally it comes through the door cracks and straight into mine :/
8:15 gold advise! Thanks!!!
Good tests. I would have liked to see a control with no fan or air cleaner, just to see what that decay looks like.
True, would have been even better.
You are a genius, Matthias!
This channel was made for me. THANK YOU!
Thanks for clearing the air.
A truly well done and useful video. I will seriously consider buying a Dreo. I live in California and bought a portable HEPA filter last year and was surprised that it went to high power whenever we cooked or used any cleaning products like Febreze. We could use another in the back of the house.
Also, I really like your simple fan filter and plan on building one for my garage shop.
I wonder how the ikea air cleaner would have performed. It seems that it comes down to the filter since it is also a big box with a fan attached to its center
I think its always good to have a control
Wow! This was a really fun video to watch. It's timely for me as I've been have very high dust levels in my garage while wood working. In the winter and early spring it is pretty cold and windy, especially at night, so it is not practical to leave all the garage doors open. I have been trying to decide between making a fancy one or buying one. I love your simple home made one for the garage. But, I think your sponsored one might be better near the wood stove in the house. Thanks for all the effort you put into this. You made my day with all the data collection, analysis, and presentation!!! 😃
That filter shouldn't run while doing woodworking, a HEPA filter would be ruined in no time. Leave, let the dust settle 5-10 minutes, then come back and turn it on for nice clean air. You probably know that, so take it for what it's worth.
I like videos like this. I have nothing against sponsored videos so long as everything is fair. It's interesting to see the performance of different solutions too. I suspected Dyson was all about looking good rather than working good.
Dyson purifier fans have had had the same issue since the beginning really - as you point out the primary air flow (that's drawn through the filter) only accounts for about 30% of the amplifier's throughput. They're more of a room fan with a filter attached than a dedicated air purifier. A lot of their marketing guff used to focus on filtration quality (size of particles and types of contamination removed etc) rather than time taken to remove airborne contaminants.
I have the humidifier version of this (same thing, with ability to add moisture to the air!) and it's really good. But I would never have paid full price for it. I happened to get it for about 40% off as unopened on eBay. I like how it works and how it looks but you definitely have to recognize that you are paying a decent "style" premium (A bit like Bang & Olufsen!)
Considering how it only takes an extra couple of minutes to do the same job, its probably the fact that its damned expensive and your paying for the "luxury" of it. Other than that, it doesn't seem to be a bad product at all.
Being cool looking is a primary function of the dyson fan. And it excels at that!
In this setup, yes, the dyson only took a little longer. They all went from dirty air to clean air. But with the Dreo doing it faster, you can think of it clearing a bigger room in the same amount of time. Or having less noise, and shorter noise duration to do the same ting.
@@brookead Ah looks like they've gone with an evaporative humidifier now - I remember all the humidifier projects getting canned because there were complaints with first generation ones covering peoples' desks with limescale.
Pretty interesting indeed, Matthias! Fantastic testing! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Cool and interesting video.
Love my box fan filter even more now!
You sold me on the filter onto tape onto the back of my box fan. Neat :D
the only place to get an Infomercial with information.
As much as I remember, this is the first time you don't destroy or discredit a sponsor, I guess this is a good product.
This is a copy/paste of the CBS News air purifier lab test 1), where you picked the second worse performing but by far the most expensive air purifier in their test (Dyson), filter slapped on a fan (also in their test), and a sponsored air purifier. Perfect set up to make the sponsored purifier look good.
#1 Their test can found on youtube under the title "Is an $800 purifier best to clean your home's air? We lab tested 5 top brands"
Yes, I knew the dyson would underperform :)
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Pimp out with a higher MERV rated filter and/or 2" and 4" thick filters. Then compare to this video and your previous referenced as well. Seems silly not comparing to the 4 or 5 filter versions while at it. That'd be awesome. Wondering about other filters like maybe an electrostatic pre-filter and/or carbon filters maybe?
Looks like a very nice compact unit. I use the box fan solution and it works pretty well. I will look into getting one of the Dreo units. Thanks!
I made a few air filters inspired by your air filters a couple of years ago and I used them through covid thinking they were probably doing something. I was kind of surprised air filtration wasn't a general recommendation for covid.
they aren't a recommendation because it puts the onus on government to update their hvac systems. Easier to tell people to mask up.
Practical and methodic test...very good.
Be sure to include a test for construction adhesive fume extraction.
I have considered, while dusting my ceiling fan blades, making fan blades with slots 10x20” filters.
A very good product test! I would have liked to see a controll test without any purifier fan just to see how long the particles stay airbourne. But still, interesting stuff!
I was thinking the same. He did mention that the particles from burnt sawdust remain in the air for days but still would have been nice to see a plot.
as always quality testing, don't care if sponsored
Nice to see a sponsored product that didn't fail
Happy to know my box fan filter is effective.
Oooooh.... hard, down to earth home science... hell yeah. Subscribed!
It might be interesting to try ridiculous mode where you run the same test with every filter at once (assuming circuit in shop can handle). See how short you can get the time to clear the particulate. I expect the result would be "more filter more better" but assume there is a point of diminishing returns.
Good video. Would be useful see data from a control group with no purifier.
Great video! I always learn so much from you and I love your metrics-style teaching! Thanks so much for taking the time to do these! 👏👏⭐⭐⭐⭐
Awesome a great video with great infomation!
Great video, really like your approach (as usual). As always your data presentation and collection are first rate. Thanks for another great video!
Wow, I've actually needed a new air purifier for a while, I have a like 15 year old filter queen and it just does not move enough air to clean anything well anymore.
Not quite ready for the impulse purchase of one today, but when I do buy a new one, I'll make sure to purchase it through your link :)
Letting Mathias test your product you must really have a high confidence in it.
Excellent test. They got their money's worth and then some.