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I've seen lots of tutorial video's on gain staging on youtube, this is by far the best one, explained clearly and simply without being too complicated, another great video from mixbus
Great tutorial. The biggest thing I've been learning lately are basic fundamentals. I can't believe how long I've been pushing my levels too hard and making more work for myself just like you said. Can't wait to put this particular technique to use.
One small thing I will add about what you say at 3:10 regarding running your signal hot. This is totally true if you’re going directly into your AD converter. If you are running through an analog preamp before your AD, there is a trick you can do to get additional saturation from your preamps while still saving as much headroom on your AD converter as you want. Basically you need to put a *passive* attenuator between your preamp and the interface. An example of this would be to put a LittleLabs Redcloud in between your pres and adc. Run the pre’s as hot as you’d like, but reel them in before they hit your converters. Works great to add saturation if you have a good set of preamps. That is all. Great video btw!
Great advice. I had to learn this the hard way. Hopefully, I am accomplishing the same thing by selecting the hot wave events on the playing field and pulling the gain down there. There's a gain control built into each clip, at least in Studio One there is. I don't know about other DAWs.
This is very important to me I have always made this mistake of not taking proper look into my gain staging making me struggling alot in mixing.thanks so much mixbus tv ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Would it not be better to record relatively hot (but not near clipping) and then lower the initial level of each track ITB with gain plug-ins? So the recordings themselves each have maximum S/N, but then you lower the gain of that strong signal in post, so you are not affecting the S/N of the recording? Doesn't that make more sense?
great video! But I'm really confused between setting levels to get headroom on the master bus, and off-setting that with trying to hit the sweet spot for insert plugins at 0dbVU. I've callibrated my DAW meter to sit at 0dbVU with -18dBFS (seemingly recommended calibration) and to show the VU and peak levels. On the snare, I'm having to add gain to get it to hit 0dbVU for the sweet spot for insert plugins. But with that added gain, the peak level is clipping on the master...although the VU level is around 0db on the master. So, I'm clipping already! But if I lower the trim on the snare its nowhere near 0dBVU which is recommended for the insert plugins. Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding something but if I gain stage for 0dbVU on individual tracks I have clipping on peak levels. Am I doing something wrong?
I recently subscribed because your channel is such a treasure trove of great insight. I have been a live front-mixer for many years, and I like to think I was pretty good at it (bands paid good money for pretty large gigs anyway, and some direct-from-desk recordings even ended up being mastered for release). Studio work is quite something else though, and I have so much to learn there... It's really a lot more work as it seems to be all about the sum of well-considered details (the sort of thing you don't have much time for in live situations). Anyway, thanks for the great content you're putting out there.
I use reference C-weighted pink noise just to start the mix levels before adding any effects or adding gain to each track these days. Seems to work though to a certain extent.
With this method, if I start mixing and bringing the faders on, the kick sit in about 0db, the snare +3, guitars +5.. I read about the fader being post-everything, but, why not start the faders about -5 to give more room for mixing and automation? Don't know.. I'm a newbie to this stuff! Been watching your videos, really liking so far, thanks!!
Great tutorial. I've been gain staging in pro tools by setting the clip gain volume -10db on each tracks individual wav. Is what your doing with the SSL E Channel getting the same result as what I'm doing with the clip gain? Is there different artifacts effecting each sound involved with the 2 different processes? Is it hurting anything quality/sonic wise by gain staging with the clip gain? Do you keep the analog setting on for all tracks so you're getting the SSL Analog Sound across the board? Thanks for sharing this crucial information that isn't talked about much in depth.
Yes. This is exactly my concern. Most plugins tend to change the tone of the sound even without any parameters turned on which slightly goes against the purpose of gain staging.
Thanks very much for your tutorial. I am wondering if it would be fine as well to lower gain on group tracks and leave individual track with higher volume.
This is the 3rd video I've watched, I really like them. In your 'stop the hi pass madness' video, you gave a great demonstration on phase shifting and recommended EQ at the bus (instead of individual tracks) for multi-miked tracks. The SSL plugin seems a little hi-powered for just lowering the track level; is there another reason you choose it instead of the Trim plugin? Do you utilize any other of the SSL plugin functions on the individual tracks?
ssl collection doesn't clip. It was designed to act exactly as the console by creating saturation on the output stage. Run a sine wave thru it and maximize the output you'll see the harmonics created thru a analyzer.
a sine wave at or above - 3db RMS is mathematically guaranteed to clip. that's 0db in dbFo or whatever the other standard is btw. , you can't beat hard science reality hey. don't be that mix engineer 😬👆
What's the difference from lowering the levels in mixer and putting a gain plug in and lowering it in channel strip? I usually highlight all mixer channels and lower uniform.
One thing that I never understood about gain staging is what level of db's should I aim for post processing of the audio? If I'm trimming all of my channels down to 10 db should i aim for 6 db or even higher post processing? Or should I keep it closer to 10 and let the mastering bring my mix back to a higher volume?
Is this what the 'gain' plugin in Logic is meant to be used for? I use it to make my 2-bus mono for checking phase issues. I use the Sonimus Satson channel on all my channel strips for the gain staging and for gluing the mix together. Thanks for the great videos!
ChannelStrip plus Insert before Post (in Pre fader) a little cut or larger it depends will improve any audio track a lot. It’s cool to do, use it in the DAW and seeing the Master finally going below 0 and even to -6dB to -8dB!
How about the following process? When composing/ starting mixing gain staging against pink noise peaking at -6 dB ie gain staging each individual track so it can be just about heard through. According to my understanding that creates a pretty well balanced starting point with ample headroom. From there adding compression by roughly -2 dB on each track another -2dB on each group bus or -4 dB per track if there is no group bus and finally another -2 dB (-4 dB or so at hardest genres) at the Master and naturally gain compensating for the used compression so it bring the tracks to the desired peak level (again roughly against pink noise) per track and further when played together at the master . Finally from there fine tuning with fader automation for final mix to be bounced into a master which gets the final mastering treatment (eq, saturtion & typically another -2 dB compression if still desired).
This video is excellent and I've see this before in Recording Revolution. I use sonakais (spl?) trimmer for just about everything. However, I have a question about using this plugin. In the video you just adjust the level...am I supposed to set it to "pre" or not? I thought (maybe incorrectly) that one wants to set the minus levels to pre to acomplish this gain staging to create more headroom. Am I incorrect? Thanks. And thanks for writing back on previous posted questions too. Peace! Marty
In the lower left of the sonakais underneath the meter next to the fader is a setting that says "pre" I thought I was supposed to click that for prefader. Sorry I can't use the snippet to show you but if you look you will see it. Is it necessary to click or not?
Thanks for the video! Very simple and helpful. Now that I know this, if I have done a mix (incorrectly) of my own stuff using the faders, if I now go in and insert plug ins to lower the gain the way you describe, am I going to have to redo my whole mix and adjust all the plug in settings? Obviously compression will have to be adjusted, but are there any exceptions, like maybe EQ, where the input signal doesn't really change what the plug in is doing? Also is there an easier way to do this, for example like a pre bus, or a VCA group, where just one fader or plug in is used? Seems like that should be standard on all DAWs... thanks again
Great video but i would like to ask how did you get loud mix with the tracks lowered at that level? And how we can achive -9 LUFS White that headroom on master bus?
There's a lot wrong in your question, first you shouldn't care about the level of your mix, second you don't measure your headroom with LUFS, and as for how, if you watch all the video on this channel and all the courses if you become a member, you will scratch the surface on "how to", you can start understanding gain staging: th-cam.com/video/bDnylIRs0jo/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/mcTutMN2w00/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/Gj40ZfXYPzI/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/LCjN7crePF0/w-d-xo.html
@@mixbustv I probably explained myself wrong. I meant, if we do optimal gain staging while leaving a lot of headroom on the master bus, how can we get songs that sound at -9 / -8 LUFS with mastering without crushing the limiter so much? I've seen so many of your videos where you talked about loudness and I think with track levels so low we can't get to a song that sounds loud I didn't say we measure headroom in LUFS
@@EaglePitStudio the level of your mix is absolutely insignificant for the final loudness. Your crest factor is what matters. th-cam.com/video/lk4D4bMu8uo/w-d-xo.html
Someone already asked a similar question, but why not just lower the faders. That's a lot of SSL's. Okay, so you use the channel strips for comp, eq etc. That is however your preference. Loading the same amount of trim plugins or turning down the input for whichever plugin resides in the first insert slot seems unnecessary. I ask because I'm curious, not because I know it all. Maybe I'm missing something. Thanks for a great video!
Hello David sir, Excellent videos and best mixing tutorials. I have learned a lot from ur lessons honestly. I need an advice from you for my following query. I am sending all my rhythm kit to rhythm bus where I am using SSL G BUS COMPRESSOR. Again i am routing compressed rhythm bus opt to final master mix bus where I am using ML4000 MULTI BAND DYNAMICS. How far it is fair enough to process twice only Rhythm section. What are all d cautions one must look out and plz advice in this situation. Thanks.
Very Very good info my man- thanks a bunch- but what I would like to see is a tutorial on gain staging all the way from say the sound card through the DAW- to the monitors (I'm using powered monitors with vol control)--Let me know if you already have one or going to make one-- Thanks in advance
yeah thats what I thought thanks.But what I was referring to is, all the volume knobs like the one on your sound card, the one on Command 8 (Pro-Tools controller) and finally the monitors--how should they be set?...10 o clock, 12 o clock or all the way up
great video! wondering why i see so many people importing their tracks into new project files - how come you just didnt keep the audio tracks in the project they were recorded in?
Scenario question for you............... Lets say i didnt want to use the whole channel strip for this, but i need to adjust Gain of individual channels. What about using the NLS channels? This would also give you the option to route them into NLS sub groups later too. Also, can you maybe list a few for just gain adjustment that are really low on CPU usage? Im running NI Komplete Ultimate 10, some Waves and Klanghelm stuff
Hi David, This is probably a messy question for which there is no "one size fits all" answer. My research on the web hasn't revealed anything of much use, so here I am asking my go-to guy :-) Nominal input level going into a vst? I'm not asking about guitar sims, compressors, limiters or saturation. If you have a general recommendation for reverb, delay, modulation, etc., I'd love to hear it. I've read online that it doesn't matter as long as the signal's not too hot going in, but other people say that plugins only perform properly when their input signal is "nominal". Thanks, Pete
What a great tutorial! I really liked it and i will def do that in my tracks but I have one little question Is there a difference between adjusting the input signal from the SSL's input level and just dragging down the volume fader? I got really frustrated in that part so I hope you can reply as fast as possible As always keep up the good work! Thanks in advance
+MixbusTV How about if I use a limiter (invisible limiter/fabfilter L) and modify the "OUT" parameter to -10/-18 Db. Is that the exact same thing as adjusting the SSL'S input level?
+MixbusTV Jesus Christ. Every f****ng plugin has a gain nob or level control of some sort. Just reduce the damn level with the first insert in the chain. A whole channel strip just to change the gain, that's just ridicules
This might be a dumb question, but I am dumb so it's ok.... Why should I use a plug in to lower the gain when the mixer itself has gain controls that I can use right there to lower the peaks of each channel? I am sure theres a reason? Love your videos by the way!
Hi david . Vaishakh from India here ... I don't know if this is a stupid question or something ... But Why did you use an SSL plugin to trim down everything by 10 db ?. Can we it do by the channel faders itself ?
Thanks for responding to my comment on your other video. Would you create a rough mix thru the gain staging or should you not worry about balance during gain staging?
How do you take care of the noise floor when you using analog emulation plugins? I make sure all my tracks are peaking no higher than -18dbfs but at the end of every mix there is always a TON of noise even when I turn off all the analog emulation on the plugins. How do I get rid of this?
***** Yeah that's what I was saying in my last comment that I DID turn the analog off on all the plugins but I still am getting a noticeable noise floor? Why is this you think?
I'm a hip hop producer so everything is programmed so no there is no noise in any of my recordings. Also when I do mix vocals for my clients I make sure I remove the background by using an editor that specializes in that. What do you mean hw inserts?
***** Oh alright. I actually figured out what it was hahah It was my VMR mixbus plugin that was spitting out all that noise. I hit the noise reduction button and BAM all the noise gone lol Thanks for helping me out anyways! Love your tutorials man keep em coming.
I just saw some people using pink noise to get a quick mix and setting up the track levels as a starting point. the examples i have seen so far were pretty good. Have you ever tried mixing using pink noise technique and found it useful ?
hahaha , yes you are right it seems like a thing suitable for less experienced people or maybe if the room acoustics are not great maybe then it can be helpful because eventually they all say that it doesn't give you a proper mix but just an idea to setup the levels of your tracks.
Is there a sonic difference if I just batch process normalization an entire selection of clips to equal -10db individually which Is where I have my yellow high break point set on my meters vs adjusting the input stage of the ssl plug? Yes I know it creates and individual file and takes up space or I could overwrite and that's obviously undoable. Reason I'm asking is for example the vtm manual says to get the most out of the tape emulation, 0dbfs equals 0dbvu. Once I analyzed my tracks i would normalize to -.5dbfs or 94.4% normalization. I think sound on sound or tape op had a article about how normalizing can degrade a file if you do 100% normalization so to avoid that, to normalize no more than -.5db. Then I'd batch process everything through the vtm, then batch process everything to normalize the tracks to equal -10dbfs for the session. Thoughts?
Great Video ! Great Channel! Great explained! now I understand. Only one thing I´m confused over and that´s LUFS. I know that -18 dB is the same as 0 VU, are -23 LUFS also the same? , just Another scale?
just curious ? what should the master levels be @ before mastering and mixing like what level ? thank you ! cause it looked like you had it at -12 ? 8:08
It doesn't matter. The level of your mix is irrelevant and has no bearing on the master or on how loud it can get. *As long* as you don't clip, and don't use a limiter NOT to clip. In short, anywhere between -12 and -1, it's the same. The only thing that factors in how loud a master can get is crest factor and balance.
Thank's Mixbus Tv! How do you calibrate the "meter" for mixing & mastering? like your other videos, trick on Pro tools example -10 for recording session.
I use PT classic metering for both tracks and master track. But for both mixing and mastering I have my meters on my hardware, AD+ in particular also has a zoom in function for better accuracy so, yeah, hardware metering for me.
Question I’ve never seen master fader sent to a mixbus why is that and where would you add your plugins on mixbus or master fader and why please explain thank you
Gain staging at first seemed extremely overwhelming and even in doing so it took me a long time because I wasnt very used to navigating around my DAW so it did become a large task I didnt want to do. With time, practice and better habits overtime it becomes a breeze and there is no excuse to avoid it.
in logic i use the very simple gain utility plugin to gain stage my tracks. uses very little cpu power. also lower virtual synth levels before they hit the mixr
+Gianluca Finistauri channel faders are always last in the channel strip..meaning the insert comes before the channel faders..so if you have a hot signal in the channel and you process them it starts clipping within the insert chain(plug in chain) and a distorted signal comes to your faders. now even if you bring the faders down, its the distorted signal...so to avoid this its better to do the gain reduction early in the processing chain so that your signal is clean in the plugin chain and a clean signal comes to your fader.. and then do the necessary levelling... hope this helps..:-)
Thanks AB. Very useful, though my question was slightly different. The Sanaksis plugin itself has two controls: a Trim and a Fader. Even if I put it as the very first plugin to lower the signal, should I use the trim knob or the fader?
great video... quick question. So what is the recommended levels for RMS/Peak on your master before you start mixing approximately? I am using 24 bit. thank you!!
You could do that too. The point is there are numerous ways to do it, and he just shows you how he likes to do it. Also he stated that he uses the ssl for more than just trimming, its usually the first thing he throws on his chain.
Even though I completely agree with don't overthink it. Usually I bring down the individual levels of each track. I like this approach to do it with a plug in!
Yes it is possible but not really efficient, especially because I doubt you're not gonna add a plugin anyway. But regardless, you want to be able to quickly tweak the level going into whatever comes next, that's why there's a gain on channel strips. Also, clip gain is for clips, not really entire tracks
I am learning a lot from you sir!! Thank you so much!!! I have one question.. would it make a difference i just put one trim plug in on the master bus instead of puting single trim plug ins for every track?
A quick question, once you have each track calibrated by gain staging, if I want the bass to be heard a little more, do I simply move the volume fader? Just like when Equalizing or Compressing, would I have to lower the faders if there is an increase in the output of the Output to equal it to the Input? Please Can someone give me an answer
Yes and yes. Plugins nowadays all have an output trim, so that's what you'd use for level matching when processing, most analog do to but if they don't you use faders. those are for mixing and automating.
The goal of gain staging is to have the correct gain structure so you hit everything at the right level, so you have plenty of headroom on each track and group to be able to do automation and same on the 2bus
Thanks for your prompt and fast reply. I request you to do video on Mc DSP ML4000. I did not find even in their own website. I wd b very happy if u do the proper tutorial on it. Thnx.
I do my gain stage either directly on the faders or on the audio track itself.... is any wrong doing in it? (Depending the case I also use this method of putting a utility tool like a trim as an insert)
This might be a stupid question, but I am a beginner. Why would you not just pull each fader on each track down from 0dB to -10dB and not have to put a plugin on each channel?
***** Don't forget that a lot of people work with soft synths, sampler instruments, drum machines etc too. Most of these output a ridiculously hot -0db signal and need either their outputs turning down or trimming like this. Best to aim for -18db as thats what plugins expect to see as an input as it reflects 0db in the analog world. I've always considering turning down the gain on busses and masters too, but generally i'll trim the input into a plugin correctly anyway.
Great info as always. A few things Im unclear on: Recording should be done w pre fader monitoring, and mixing w post fader monitoring. Correct? Also, with the faders set at unity after proper gain staging, it doesnt seem like there is much room to move the faders UP if you have to. Is this something to consider or am I not understanding something there? Thank you! And, Happy Holidays to you and yours.
+MixbusTV Ummm... haha Im not really sure, thats why I asked. I think I assumed I should monitor my tracking pre fader so I can see what my actual levels are that are coming into protools. Therefore getting the gain staging right from the start. ??? Im not sure I entirely understand pre/post fader monitoring. But yes, what Ive been trying to do is get moderate gain staging levels from the start. Ill have to watch this again. Thanks.
+brian patrick With Pro Tools pre fade monitoring does let you see the incoming signal, so even if you were to pull down that track fader you wouldn't see the track meter change. To see a change during mixing you have to turn off "Pre fade monitoring" With it on you could have that tracks fader all the way down and still see the incoming signal strength you are recording with. BTW thanks for the great vid.
I usually lower the master fader to a reasonable level where the signals are mostly in the green area. I have heard it changes "the bit rate"...but everything I read points to the other direction. I am not sure if it's right or not. do you have any clue? thank you.
Hi there mate. Is there like a "super precise" level analysis plugin that you would recommend for calibration outboard gear? Mainly when you wanna use gear that only exists in mono and you get a pair of them to run the mix bus, you have to level match left and right precisely to not fuck up the stereo levels.
Thanks for the video David. My question is: would it be the same thing if I lowered the volume direclty from the audio files? I've seen people doing that in the studio, and I'm wondering if thee result is just the same, sonically speaking. Thanks!
Quick question as I run into a problem often even though I'm already doing this. I use the Sonakis (spl?) trimmer just like you said. But I still have problems balancing the head phone (for vocals and accoustic instruments) in my interface. Trying to make sure the focusrite input level is in the green where it's supposed to be but still hear my voice or the guitar clearly while recording. And when done usually visually the wav form is so tiny that I have to enlarge the actual track view tremendously to actually see how the sound is actually translating into the track. So I still wind up running into gain staging problems later on when, as you said, I start setting up buses, adding compression and EQ and so on. Suggestions? I don't have problems setting up the gain staging, but more in the hearing correctly what is being recorded. And the Scarlett has very very low latency problems when I'm listening directly through it with it's drivers. So as they say on FB. WTF?? Help...
Hello David, Great video! I am wondering whats the difference between this and just lower the volume slider on individual tracks during arrangement? I record at low levels in my DAW for each individual track because i think exactly what you just said, we need headroom.
Thanks for the reply! can you do a video about what is a balanced mix or ways to achieve a balanced mix? My thoughts on this and what I have found so far on internet is that you don't want any uncontrolled peaks in your audio as they can trigger the compressor unexpectedly and that you should not have any huge peaks in your frequencies when looking at a spectrum analyzer.
to tell you the truth the idea of a balanced mix is pretty cloudy to me. maybe asking "how" is not right, but rather focusing on what it "a balanced mix." I'd really appreciate if you just scratched the surface a little bit about what a balanced mix is instead of how it is achieved. that way I have a lead I can take, and put more thoughts on. Thanks again.
It's good practice yes, especially to assess if the processing makes things better and not just louder. Once you assessed that, you can use an output to rise the level, (with analog is very common)
@@mixbustv ah okay. I’ve been watching your videos recently and they’ve been a lot of help. I have one question about using saturation to thicken up individual tracks. I tried the saturation into limiter on an aux bus and my signal didn’t go down in dBFS peak if anything it went up. Am I doing something wrong?
do i use waves mono or stereo ssl e channel to gainstage ? i most work with electronic and loops that always are to loud for the most and in stereo so i convert to mono on them like the kick..i use mixcraft 9 for the moment and it dont have mixbuss as in pro tools for say i can not make output tracks and route and so and so on.. submixes yes.. but is mixbuss same as masdterbuss.. ?
Well, but still the image is not clear for me. The different between moving fader down to -15 OR using a plug in to reduce the volume for -15 !!! Can you explain me more in terms of science. Thanks
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This is quickly becoming my favourite recording channel. My mixes sound cleaner after going through and adjusting the gain on each track. Thanks!
Still relevant and concise years later.
Totally. This is one of the first ones I ever watched and now here I am again!
I've seen lots of tutorial video's on gain staging on youtube, this is by far the best one, explained clearly and simply without being too complicated, another great video from mixbus
Great tutorial. The biggest thing I've been learning lately are basic fundamentals. I can't believe how long I've been pushing my levels too hard and making more work for myself just like you said. Can't wait to put this particular technique to use.
Thanks, David! Your channel is by far one of the BEST and most INFORMATIVE audio engineering channels on here. This was super helpful. Thank you!!
🙏
One small thing I will add about what you say at 3:10 regarding running your signal hot. This is totally true if you’re going directly into your AD converter. If you are running through an analog preamp before your AD, there is a trick you can do to get additional saturation from your preamps while still saving as much headroom on your AD converter as you want. Basically you need to put a *passive* attenuator between your preamp and the interface. An example of this would be to put a LittleLabs Redcloud in between your pres and adc. Run the pre’s as hot as you’d like, but reel them in before they hit your converters. Works great to add saturation if you have a good set of preamps. That is all. Great video btw!
Wouldn't that kill your processing power though, SSL across 40 tracks?
I needed this tutorial thanks David
Great Video! Wait, couldn't you also adjust your clip gain?
That's why I like Reason. All that is included on the mixer. No need to add a channel strip 😎
David is just A BEAST!!!!!!!!! Don't know why I'm only seing this!!!!!!
This is a very important video for me personally. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
Great advice. I had to learn this the hard way.
Hopefully, I am accomplishing the same thing by selecting the hot wave events on the playing field and pulling the gain down there. There's a gain control built into each clip, at least in Studio One there is. I don't know about other DAWs.
@@mixbustv Thank you. You are a great explainer. :-)
So happy to find your channel, with so generous step by step explanation. Thanks a lot !👍👍👍👍👍
This is very important to me I have always made this mistake of not taking proper look into my gain staging making me struggling alot in mixing.thanks so much mixbus tv ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Would it not be better to record relatively hot (but not near clipping) and then lower the initial level of each track ITB with gain plug-ins? So the recordings themselves each have maximum S/N, but then you lower the gain of that strong signal in post, so you are not affecting the S/N of the recording? Doesn't that make more sense?
great video! But I'm really confused between setting levels to get headroom on the master bus, and off-setting that with trying to hit the sweet spot for insert plugins at 0dbVU. I've callibrated my DAW meter to sit at 0dbVU with -18dBFS (seemingly recommended calibration) and to show the VU and peak levels. On the snare, I'm having to add gain to get it to hit 0dbVU for the sweet spot for insert plugins. But with that added gain, the peak level is clipping on the master...although the VU level is around 0db on the master. So, I'm clipping already! But if I lower the trim on the snare its nowhere near 0dBVU which is recommended for the insert plugins. Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding something but if I gain stage for 0dbVU on individual tracks I have clipping on peak levels. Am I doing something wrong?
I recently subscribed because your channel is such a treasure trove of great insight.
I have been a live front-mixer for many years, and I like to think I was pretty good at it (bands paid good money for pretty large gigs anyway, and some direct-from-desk recordings even ended up being mastered for release).
Studio work is quite something else though, and I have so much to learn there... It's really a lot more work as it seems to be all about the sum of well-considered details (the sort of thing you don't have much time for in live situations).
Anyway, thanks for the great content you're putting out there.
I use reference C-weighted pink noise just to start the mix levels before adding any effects or adding gain to each track these days. Seems to work though to a certain extent.
With this method, if I start mixing and bringing the faders on, the kick sit in about 0db, the snare +3, guitars +5.. I read about the fader being post-everything, but, why not start the faders about -5 to give more room for mixing and automation? Don't know.. I'm a newbie to this stuff! Been watching your videos, really liking so far, thanks!!
Exactly what I was looking for, much appreciated! Quick answer too, thanks again!
Great tutorial. I've been gain staging in pro tools by setting the clip gain volume -10db on each tracks individual wav. Is what your doing with the SSL E Channel getting the same result as what I'm doing with the clip gain? Is there different artifacts effecting each sound involved with the 2 different processes? Is it hurting anything quality/sonic wise by gain staging with the clip gain? Do you keep the analog setting on for all tracks so you're getting the SSL Analog Sound across the board? Thanks for sharing this crucial information that isn't talked about much in depth.
Yes. This is exactly my concern. Most plugins tend to change the tone of the sound even without any parameters turned on which slightly goes against the purpose of gain staging.
@@ashwin230492 That's why I gain stage with Clip Gain or a trim plugin...it doesn't change the character of the original sounds. =)
Thanks very much for your tutorial. I am wondering if it would be fine as well to lower gain on group tracks and leave individual track with higher volume.
Man, you are magician. Best lesson ever! Thanks a lot! Cheers from Brazil
This is the 3rd video I've watched, I really like them.
In your 'stop the hi pass madness' video, you gave a great demonstration on phase shifting and recommended EQ at the bus (instead of individual tracks) for multi-miked tracks. The SSL plugin seems a little hi-powered for just lowering the track level; is there another reason you choose it instead of the Trim plugin? Do you utilize any other of the SSL plugin functions on the individual tracks?
ssl collection doesn't clip. It was designed to act exactly as the console by creating saturation on the output stage. Run a sine wave thru it and maximize the output you'll see the harmonics created thru a analyzer.
joel pizarro is this how people r recording vocals at -18 and having that clean saturation ?
a sine wave at or above - 3db RMS is mathematically guaranteed to clip. that's 0db in dbFo or whatever the other standard is btw. , you can't beat hard science reality hey. don't be that mix engineer 😬👆
also a pure sine wave has no harmonics
Thank you so mutch for this tutorial! This was trouble me for a long time now and the discussions on the internet was confusing me!
What's the difference from lowering the levels in mixer and putting a gain plug in and lowering it in channel strip? I usually highlight all mixer channels and lower uniform.
One thing that I never understood about gain staging is what level of db's should I aim for post processing of the audio? If I'm trimming all of my channels down to 10 db should i aim for 6 db or even higher post processing? Or should I keep it closer to 10 and let the mastering bring my mix back to a higher volume?
Is this what the 'gain' plugin in Logic is meant to be used for? I use it to make my 2-bus mono for checking phase issues. I use the Sonimus Satson channel on all my channel strips for the gain staging and for gluing the mix together. Thanks for the great videos!
any thoughts on the Neve MPB?
Good unit, I went for the Fusion.
ChannelStrip plus Insert before Post (in Pre fader) a little cut or larger it depends will improve any audio track a lot. It’s cool to do, use it in the DAW and seeing the Master finally going below 0 and even to -6dB to -8dB!
How about the following process? When composing/ starting mixing gain staging against pink noise peaking at -6 dB ie gain staging each individual track so it can be just about heard through. According to my understanding that creates a pretty well balanced starting point with ample headroom. From there adding compression by roughly -2 dB on each track another -2dB on each group bus or -4 dB per track if there is no group bus and finally another -2 dB (-4 dB or so at hardest genres) at the Master and naturally gain compensating for the used compression so it bring the tracks to the desired peak level (again roughly against pink noise) per track and further when played together at the master . Finally from there fine tuning with fader automation for final mix to be bounced into a master which gets the final mastering treatment (eq, saturtion & typically another -2 dB compression if still desired).
This video is excellent and I've see this before in Recording Revolution. I use sonakais (spl?) trimmer for just about everything. However, I have a question about using this plugin. In the video you just adjust the level...am I supposed to set it to "pre" or not? I thought (maybe incorrectly) that one wants to set the minus levels to pre to acomplish this gain staging to create more headroom. Am I incorrect?
Thanks. And thanks for writing back on previous posted questions too. Peace!
Marty
In the lower left of the sonakais underneath the meter next to the fader is a setting that says "pre" I thought I was supposed to click that for prefader. Sorry I can't use the snippet to show you but if you look you will see it. Is it necessary to click or not?
funny how avid is now 32 bit floating point ...steinberg been 32 bit float from conception!! lol
PT is always "just a bit" behind ;).
Thanks for the video! Very simple and helpful. Now that I know this, if I have done a mix (incorrectly) of my own stuff using the faders, if I now go in and insert plug ins to lower the gain the way you describe, am I going to have to redo my whole mix and adjust all the plug in settings? Obviously compression will have to be adjusted, but are there any exceptions, like maybe EQ, where the input signal doesn't really change what the plug in is doing? Also is there an easier way to do this, for example like a pre bus, or a VCA group, where just one fader or plug in is used? Seems like that should be standard on all DAWs... thanks again
About the fader plugin, does the Ableton's stock gain utility tool does the same thing?
Great video but i would like to ask how did you get loud mix with the tracks lowered at that level?
And how we can achive -9 LUFS White that headroom on master bus?
There's a lot wrong in your question, first you shouldn't care about the level of your mix, second you don't measure your headroom with LUFS, and as for how, if you watch all the video on this channel and all the courses if you become a member, you will scratch the surface on "how to", you can start understanding gain staging:
th-cam.com/video/bDnylIRs0jo/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/mcTutMN2w00/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Gj40ZfXYPzI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/LCjN7crePF0/w-d-xo.html
@@mixbustv I probably explained myself wrong. I meant, if we do optimal gain staging while leaving a lot of headroom on the master bus, how can we get songs that sound at -9 / -8 LUFS with mastering without crushing the limiter so much?
I've seen so many of your videos where you talked about loudness and I think with track levels so low we can't get to a song that sounds loud
I didn't say we measure headroom in LUFS
@@EaglePitStudio the level of your mix is absolutely insignificant for the final loudness. Your crest factor is what matters. th-cam.com/video/lk4D4bMu8uo/w-d-xo.html
@@mixbustv ok i agree
Someone already asked a similar question, but why not just lower the faders. That's a lot of SSL's. Okay, so you use the channel strips for comp, eq etc. That is however your preference. Loading the same amount of trim plugins or turning down the input for whichever plugin resides in the first insert slot seems unnecessary. I ask because I'm curious, not because I know it all. Maybe I'm missing something. Thanks for a great video!
Hello David sir, Excellent videos and best mixing tutorials. I have learned a lot from ur lessons honestly.
I need an advice from you for my following query.
I am sending all my rhythm kit to rhythm bus where I am using SSL G BUS COMPRESSOR. Again i am routing compressed rhythm bus opt to final master mix bus where I am using ML4000 MULTI BAND DYNAMICS. How far it is fair enough to process twice only Rhythm section. What are all d cautions one must look out and plz advice in this situation.
Thanks.
Very Very good info my man- thanks a bunch- but what I would like to see is a tutorial on gain staging all the way from say the sound card through the DAW- to the monitors (I'm using powered monitors with vol control)--Let me know if you already have one or going to make one-- Thanks in advance
yeah thats what I thought thanks.But what I was referring to is, all the volume knobs like the one on your sound card, the one on Command 8 (Pro-Tools controller) and finally the monitors--how should they be set?...10 o clock, 12 o clock or all the way up
great video! wondering why i see so many people importing their tracks into new project files - how come you just didnt keep the audio tracks in the project they were recorded in?
David love your analysis,so simple but right on
Scenario question for you............... Lets say i didnt want to use the whole channel strip for this, but i need to adjust Gain of individual channels. What about using the NLS channels? This would also give you the option to route them into NLS sub groups later too.
Also, can you maybe list a few for just gain adjustment that are really low on CPU usage? Im running NI Komplete Ultimate 10, some Waves and Klanghelm stuff
Hi David, This is probably a messy question for which there is no "one size fits all" answer. My research on the web hasn't revealed anything of much use, so here I am asking my go-to guy :-) Nominal input level going into a vst? I'm not asking about guitar sims, compressors, limiters or saturation. If you have a general recommendation for reverb, delay, modulation, etc., I'd love to hear it. I've read online that it doesn't matter as long as the signal's not too hot going in, but other people say that plugins only perform properly when their input signal is "nominal". Thanks, Pete
Many, many thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated David!
is this a good idea to use trim plugins if you have gain pots in your daw?
Why you turn down the input ssl and not just the output ?
MixbusTV oh okay..if you use the eq and compression and you turn down the input it affect the effect on eq and compression?
MixbusTV ok thx
What a great tutorial! I really liked it and i will def do that in my tracks but I have one little question
Is there a difference between adjusting the input signal from the SSL's input level and just dragging down the volume fader?
I got really frustrated in that part so I hope you can reply as fast as possible
As always keep up the good work! Thanks in advance
+MixbusTV How about if I use a limiter (invisible limiter/fabfilter L) and modify the "OUT" parameter to -10/-18 Db. Is that the exact same thing as adjusting the SSL'S input level?
Alright! Thanks
+MixbusTV Jesus Christ. Every f****ng plugin has a gain nob or level control of some sort. Just reduce the damn level with the first insert in the chain. A whole channel strip just to change the gain, that's just ridicules
@@Leo_Berger Watch the video full before commenting mate
what is the difference between the 2buss, and mix bus, and master fader, im confused?!!!
This might be a dumb question, but I am dumb so it's ok.... Why should I use a plug in to lower the gain when the mixer itself has gain controls that I can use right there to lower the peaks of each channel? I am sure theres a reason? Love your videos by the way!
Hi david . Vaishakh from India here ... I don't know if this is a stupid question or something ... But Why did you use an SSL plugin to trim down everything by 10 db ?. Can we it do by the channel faders itself ?
Thanks for responding to my comment on your other video. Would you create a rough mix thru the gain staging or should you not worry about balance during gain staging?
I do create the rough mix with/while doing gain staging yes.
How do you take care of the noise floor when you using analog emulation plugins? I make sure all my tracks are peaking no higher than -18dbfs but at the end of every mix there is always a TON of noise even when I turn off all the analog emulation on the plugins. How do I get rid of this?
***** Yeah that's what I was saying in my last comment that I DID turn the analog off on all the plugins but I still am getting a noticeable noise floor? Why is this you think?
I'm a hip hop producer so everything is programmed so no there is no noise in any of my recordings. Also when I do mix vocals for my clients I make sure I remove the background by using an editor that specializes in that. What do you mean hw inserts?
***** Oh alright. I actually figured out what it was hahah It was my VMR mixbus plugin that was spitting out all that noise. I hit the noise reduction button and BAM all the noise gone lol Thanks for helping me out anyways! Love your tutorials man keep em coming.
Great lesson!!!🙏🙏🙏
I just saw some people using pink noise to get a quick mix and setting up the track levels as a starting point. the examples i have seen so far were pretty good.
Have you ever tried mixing using pink noise technique and found it useful ?
hahaha , yes you are right it seems like a thing suitable for less experienced people or maybe if the room acoustics are not great maybe then it can be helpful because eventually they all say that it doesn't give you a proper mix but just an idea to setup the levels of your tracks.
Dave, your helping me a lot. Thank you 😊
Is there a sonic difference if I just batch process normalization an entire selection of clips to equal -10db individually which Is where I have my yellow high break point set on my meters vs adjusting the input stage of the ssl plug?
Yes I know it creates and individual file and takes up space or I could overwrite and that's obviously undoable.
Reason I'm asking is for example the vtm manual says to get the most out of the tape emulation, 0dbfs equals 0dbvu.
Once I analyzed my tracks i would normalize to -.5dbfs or 94.4% normalization. I think sound on sound or tape op had a article about how normalizing can degrade a file if you do 100% normalization so to avoid that, to normalize no more than -.5db.
Then I'd batch process everything through the vtm, then batch process everything to normalize the tracks to equal -10dbfs for the session.
Thoughts?
Is this technique as effective or necessary while making beats? Should the new tracks i create be trimmed first also?
Great Video ! Great Channel! Great explained!
now I understand. Only one thing I´m confused over and that´s LUFS.
I know that -18 dB is the same as 0 VU, are -23 LUFS also the same? , just Another scale?
OK now I understand, thank you very much !
just curious ? what should the master levels be @ before mastering and mixing like what level ? thank you ! cause it looked like you had it at -12 ? 8:08
It doesn't matter. The level of your mix is irrelevant and has no bearing on the master or on how loud it can get. *As long* as you don't clip, and don't use a limiter NOT to clip. In short, anywhere between -12 and -1, it's the same. The only thing that factors in how loud a master can get is crest factor and balance.
thank you very much for the trim improved my mixes
Thank's Mixbus Tv! How do you calibrate the "meter" for mixing & mastering? like your other videos, trick on Pro tools example -10 for recording session.
I use PT classic metering for both tracks and master track. But for both mixing and mastering I have my meters on my hardware, AD+ in particular also has a zoom in function for better accuracy so, yeah, hardware metering for me.
Question I’ve never seen master fader sent to a mixbus why is that and where would you add your plugins on mixbus or master fader and why please explain thank you
Gain staging at first seemed extremely overwhelming and even in doing so it took me a long time because I wasnt very used to navigating around my DAW so it did become a large task I didnt want to do. With time, practice and better habits overtime it becomes a breeze and there is no excuse to avoid it.
in logic i use the very simple gain utility plugin to gain stage my tracks. uses very little cpu power. also lower virtual synth levels before they hit the mixr
in what level do you defined as geting in to the yellow?
Excellent information. Often over looked.
Can you balance volume of the whole mix first with only the gain staging proces? Afthe that u can fine tune with fader?
What is the difference between lowering the fader and using the TRIM say in Sanaksis or any other alike plugin ?
+Gianluca Finistauri channel faders are always last in the channel strip..meaning the insert comes before the channel faders..so if you have a hot signal in the channel and you process them it starts clipping within the insert chain(plug in chain) and a distorted signal comes to your faders. now even if you bring the faders down, its the distorted signal...so to avoid this its better to do the gain reduction early in the processing chain so that your signal is clean in the plugin chain and a clean signal comes to your fader.. and then do the necessary levelling... hope this helps..:-)
Thanks AB. Very useful, though my question was slightly different. The Sanaksis plugin itself has two controls: a Trim and a Fader. Even if I put it as the very first plugin to lower the signal, should I use the trim knob or the fader?
+MixbusTV ok clear now. Thanks
great video... quick question. So what is the recommended levels for RMS/Peak on your master before you start mixing approximately? I am using 24 bit. thank you!!
this is true... thx man. what about the peak? is there a level i should make sure my master bus doesnt peak higher than before my mix process?
***** thx man, and thanks for all the great videos!
What is the mix print?
Why not just lower all wav/aiff files volume. Saves CPU and headroom..
+Frederick Alonso Yeah, that was my first thought too.
+Frederick Alonso I know In pro tools you can do that directly from the wave form, other DAW's do it too. Some programs you cant do that though
+Frederick Alonso yup, clip gain, etc...
Can't we just normalize all the tracks to -12 and get it done quick?
You could do that too. The point is there are numerous ways to do it, and he just shows you how he likes to do it. Also he stated that he uses the ssl for more than just trimming, its usually the first thing he throws on his chain.
Even though I completely agree with don't overthink it. Usually I bring down the individual levels of each track. I like this approach to do it with a plug in!
@@mixbustv What's the difference between using the SSL/Sonalksis plugin and just turning down the fader for each track?
Is it possible to just lower the gain on the event itself by dragging the handle down manually? To avoid having to add a VST on every track?
Yes it is possible but not really efficient, especially because I doubt you're not gonna add a plugin anyway. But regardless, you want to be able to quickly tweak the level going into whatever comes next, that's why there's a gain on channel strips. Also, clip gain is for clips, not really entire tracks
What if i have lot of busses in mix, should i reduce that too
This will save you a lot of time! It will make you realize big sound is... a little goes a long way...
How do you get your tone booster plug ins to work with pro tools. I didn't see any AAX format, only vst and AU.
Is it the same if I just use pro tools clip gain?
After doing this all.....
When I put some eq comp the mid buss start clipping
What should I do please help
I am learning a lot from you sir!! Thank you so much!!! I have one question.. would it make a difference i just put one trim plug in on the master bus instead of puting single trim plug ins for every track?
MixbusTV
How about putting a limiter plugin on the master channel? Would it works?
Is this good idea in order to get enough headroom?
why u use plugins to get lower input ? why jusr u dont turn down the volume of the samples ?
A quick question, once you have each track calibrated by gain staging, if I want the bass to be heard a little more, do I simply move the volume fader? Just like when Equalizing or Compressing, would I have to lower the faders if there is an increase in the output of the Output to equal it to the Input? Please Can someone give me an answer
Yes and yes. Plugins nowadays all have an output trim, so that's what you'd use for level matching when processing, most analog do to but if they don't you use faders. those are for mixing and automating.
@@mixbustv thankkkss a lot 🙌
Hi David, Is the goal with gain staging to hit same volume at the end of the channel strip after all fx as at the start when you added -10?
The goal of gain staging is to have the correct gain structure so you hit everything at the right level, so you have plenty of headroom on each track and group to be able to do automation and same on the 2bus
Thanks for your prompt and fast reply. I request you to do video on Mc DSP ML4000.
I did not find even in their own website. I wd b very happy if u do the proper tutorial on it. Thnx.
I do my gain stage either directly on the faders or on the audio track itself.... is any wrong doing in it? (Depending the case I also use this method of putting a utility tool like a trim as an insert)
This might be a stupid question, but I am a beginner. Why would you not just pull each fader on each track down from 0dB to -10dB and not have to put a plugin on each channel?
@@mixbustv , Thank you! This is very helpful! You have the best channel!!!
Using a trim on every track doesn't change the quality of the audio?
***** hey thanks for the feedback. I will try this technique on my next projects and Thanks for the awesome video
***** Don't forget that a lot of people work with soft synths, sampler instruments, drum machines etc too. Most of these output a ridiculously hot -0db signal and need either their outputs turning down or trimming like this. Best to aim for -18db as thats what plugins expect to see as an input as it reflects 0db in the analog world. I've always considering turning down the gain on busses and masters too, but generally i'll trim the input into a plugin correctly anyway.
Great info as always. A few things Im unclear on: Recording should be done w pre fader monitoring, and mixing w post fader monitoring. Correct? Also, with the faders set at unity after proper gain staging, it doesnt seem like there is much room to move the faders UP if you have to. Is this something to consider or am I not understanding something there? Thank you! And, Happy Holidays to you and yours.
+MixbusTV Ummm... haha Im not really sure, thats why I asked. I think I assumed I should monitor my tracking pre fader so I can see what my actual levels are that are coming into protools. Therefore getting the gain staging right from the start. ??? Im not sure I entirely understand pre/post fader monitoring. But yes, what Ive been trying to do is get moderate gain staging levels from the start. Ill have to watch this again. Thanks.
+brian patrick With Pro Tools pre fade monitoring does let you see the incoming signal, so even if you were to pull down that track fader you wouldn't see the track meter change. To see a change during mixing you have to turn off "Pre fade monitoring" With it on you could have that tracks fader all the way down and still see the incoming signal strength you are recording with. BTW thanks for the great vid.
+Ric Zarro Got it. Thank you.
Great info! But once you get the gain staging part taking care of. Do you start moving faders to get a good static mix???
No, I do something different, you're a member, you'll have access to the video when is out ;)
I can’t wait 😊
Hey, Miguel. I became a member a couple days ago (woohoo!). Did this video ever get uploaded for members?
I usually lower the master fader to a reasonable level where the signals are mostly in the green area. I have heard it changes "the bit rate"...but everything I read points to the other direction.
I am not sure if it's right or not. do you have any clue? thank you.
Hi there mate. Is there like a "super precise" level analysis plugin that you would recommend for calibration outboard gear? Mainly when you wanna use gear that only exists in mono and you get a pair of them to run the mix bus, you have to level match left and right precisely to not fuck up the stereo levels.
Any digital analyzer would do, I like ozone but Paz will do, send a 1k sine signal and take note
Couldn't you just put a trim plugin on the master fader ? (probably not) but why ?
cool, simple but very important tip. thanks a lot
Thanks for the video David. My question is: would it be the same thing if I lowered the volume direclty from the audio files? I've seen people doing that in the studio, and I'm wondering if thee result is just the same, sonically speaking.
Thanks!
Sonically speaking, yes, but not the workflow
@@mixbustv thanks for the answer!
Quick question as I run into a problem often even though I'm already doing this.
I use the Sonakis (spl?) trimmer just like you said. But I still have problems balancing the head phone (for vocals and accoustic instruments) in my interface. Trying to make sure the focusrite input level is in the green where it's supposed to be but still hear my voice or the guitar clearly while recording.
And when done usually visually the wav form is so tiny that I have to enlarge the actual track view tremendously to actually see how the sound is actually translating into the track. So I still wind up running into gain staging problems later on when, as you said, I start setting up buses, adding compression and EQ and so on.
Suggestions? I don't have problems setting up the gain staging, but more in the hearing correctly what is being recorded. And the Scarlett has very very low latency problems when I'm listening directly through it with it's drivers. So as they say on FB. WTF??
Help...
Oh well thought I'd ask anyway. Thanks though
Hello David,
Great video! I am wondering whats the difference between this and just lower the volume slider on individual tracks during arrangement?
I record at low levels in my DAW for each individual track because i think exactly what you just said, we need headroom.
Thanks for the reply! can you do a video about what is a balanced mix or ways to achieve a balanced mix?
My thoughts on this and what I have found so far on internet is that you don't want any uncontrolled peaks in your audio as they can trigger the compressor unexpectedly and that you should not have any huge peaks in your frequencies when looking at a spectrum analyzer.
Oh yes. Your reply is still there. thanks anyways.
to tell you the truth the idea of a balanced mix is pretty cloudy to me. maybe asking "how" is not right, but rather focusing on what it "a balanced mix." I'd really appreciate if you just scratched the surface a little bit about what a balanced mix is instead of how it is achieved. that way I have a lead I can take, and put more thoughts on. Thanks again.
Nice and simple, thank you. In Cubase the strip allows me to do this without a plugin.
How? I have Cubase 9 Pro. Can you do a YT tutorial on it?
Should the output of each individual tracks still be at the same db after all the plugin processing is done?
It's good practice yes, especially to assess if the processing makes things better and not just louder. Once you assessed that, you can use an output to rise the level, (with analog is very common)
@@mixbustv ah okay. I’ve been watching your videos recently and they’ve been a lot of help. I have one question about using saturation to thicken up individual tracks. I tried the saturation into limiter on an aux bus and my signal didn’t go down in dBFS peak if anything it went up. Am I doing something wrong?
do i use waves mono or stereo ssl e channel to gainstage ? i most work with electronic and loops that always are to loud for the most and in stereo so i convert to mono on them like the kick..i use mixcraft 9 for the moment and it dont have mixbuss as in pro tools for say i can not make output tracks and route and so and so on.. submixes yes.. but is mixbuss same as masdterbuss.. ?
Hi. What if we reduce the track volume to -10 or -15 db before start the mixing ? What is different instead of adding a plugin on many audio tracks ?
Well, but still the image is not clear for me. The different between moving fader down to -15 OR using a plug in to reduce the volume for -15 !!! Can you explain me more in terms of science. Thanks