Vanes Explained: Why Recurve Archers Choose Spin Type Vanes over Glue on Rubber Vanes

[@nosro1]

@Jake Kaminski It is always refreshing to see someone approach a topic with curiosity and a little bit of skepticism. Of course, most of us don't have the skill or resources as you do, but it's great to see skill, curiosity, and a scientific approach come together. Thanks for sharing the development story behind the AAE WAV vanes. I'll be refletching my arrows with these.

[@aussiedeplorable8670]

Spin wings also change their profile in different wind strength and direction which effects them less, also they are far more forgiving for clearance issues such as a bad shot where they hit the arrow rest and they are better at stopping kiss outs when grouping tightly.

[@chunqk]

This is the good stuff - weighing CA glue - and other experiments that I wanted to do but just did not do them. I'd love to hear more about the different experiments you've run. Out of the ~20 Kaminski videos I watched in the past week, I know I enjoy hearing about the results even if there aren't hard numbers or tight controls. I also like hearing about product development. The kind of stuff only a pro athlete would do makes me personally feel patreon support is well deserved.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Thanks for supporting my channel. More hard data to follow for sure. I have things I am working on and will have more actual data soon.

[@chrisbowman2030]

I use Bohning Impulse on Barebow and Compond without any problems. Very durable vanes. Yes they are heavier than mylar vanes, but you can easily consider this when building the arrows.

[@dick-gs9tb]

WAVs all the way for me. Went from sping wings and noticed no difference in groupings. I did see a marginal drop in my sight marks at longer (>70) distances, but that's a small price to pay for not having to re-fletch arrows after every practice session.

[@FPChris]

Do they go on straight or 1 degree angle?

[@Redsnake7819]

Thank you for the video Jake. That was some good insight. What about shape, spin, speed and stabilization over long distance? Might have to make another video to go in detail on all those.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Planned....

[@PurpleDracos]

I think one of the biggest issues with spin wing type fletchings on compound arrows is how fragile they can be and how things like arrow rest choice can be affected if you want to user them.
I remember years ago shooting at a wet field archery shoot and my friend was using k-vanes on his compound arrows as I also was on my recurve arrows. He shot very well with them but because the water had got into the layered foam bosses he was quite often up to or beyond the fletchings in the face. Once he had damaged the fletchings on all dozen or so arrows it became a game of picking his three arrows with the best looking fletchings and possibly having to swap a fletching or two before the next target which I ended up doing as I was better and quicker at doing it with the little clip that came with them.

[@justinvzu01]

Definitely. For compound spin wings don't affect groupings compared to rubber in any way. That plus the forces on a compound arrow make them too expensive and a lot of work. Personally I just get Flex Fletch vanes, they're indestructible and work well.

[@onotadaki]

I’d love to see some of your experimentation in these videos. Something like Mythbusters. While showing each of the different types of vanes, you could cut to video of your groupings with each type.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Already have a lot of data on that I will share in the future!

[@kVidStream]

I honestly prefer the AAE vanes with 1 degree offset more than the "spiny" wings cause of arrow trajectory mid flight. I noticed spin wings are far more stable early in-flight, but lose on speed downrange (or it could possibly be due to high drag due to aggressive fletching angles). I find the AAE vanes make the best balance of terminal trajectory and stability out of my 30" draw @ 44lb arrows.

[@striple6752]

Can you recommend your book for barebow archers too ? A new barebow edition with small adaptations would be great otherwise

[@martinMD]

Great videos Jake 👍

[@fahlvfaust677]

1. AAE
2. Bohning
3. Easton
4. Nitro pine ridge
5. Flex...
....☝️👍👍👍✌️

[@samesaw]

How do these vanes compare to feathers ?/

[@mrpickles3479]

Question.
Pin nocks amount to 16 gr + fletchings, so for spin wings that’s approx 21-22 gr total. ..Now, if you use push in nocks that’s anything from 2-6 gr + fletchings. So, if the weight is the main factor as opposed to spin or std style, am I right in assuming a total weight of nock + fletchings should be around 21-22gr for optimal performance. If the AAE Wav vanes were used that’s 5.1 gr (for 3) + nock so possibly only 11 gr unless using the pin nock system, which means they could be running light without it?

[@fredrikforslund6696]

What would you go with on your arrows for barebow? Great videos by the way! It helps a lot!

[@snake_doc1788]

Same question

[@mrnice752]

Depends on distance and arrow weight. I use 4" feathers on 23 dia. XX75's at 18m. The shorter the distance the quicker you want the fletchings to correct flight path, lighter/thinner arrows need much less fletching to correct them.

[@brianbender8752]

I'm a compound finger shooter 3 under and shoot a 340 spine carbon what's a good brand style length would you recomend I was thinking aae trad vanes thanks for your time another great video

[@HickLif3]

I wonder how those wav vanes would work on a compound for hunting, noise and performance wise. The ultra light weight is very enticing.

[@alexk.1168]

Do you have experience with Bohning Griffin Vanes?

[@garyhiggins4315]

What I would like to see are the original mylar RIGID vanes.

[@matteorepossi5991]

Let's put that to the extreme: would you say that when shooting at 18mt with carbon arrows would be better being without vanes at all?

[@blackriflex39]

the very first time you attempted to tune a arrow how long did it take? im at a month and getting closer but holy cow archery is hard .. ive only been shooting for a few months . is it possible im rushing things and getting inconsistent results because i havent reached that level of consistency needed to properly tune? im cutting fletching and trying to doit all with great help from your videos ...

[@blackriflex39]

what do the wav pros weigh? i have some and fletched a few dozen different arrows with a 1 degree offset and they do fly better than before .. im coming from feathers and compound vanes

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

iirc 2.3 grains each specs are on the website

[@TracyPicabia]

Another terrific vid. Huge thanks Jake. I need some help here. As the vanes add significant weight and change stiffness at the rear of barrelled arrows how (or how much) do you compensate when rough tuning with bareshafts (which obviously don't have this weight on the rear). In my case ACEs 780 spine amo 27 1/4" 40mm xwings with draw weight 33lb. Presumably the fletched arrows are less weak than my bareshafts are telling me. But how much will it show down range?

[@mcdougles]

I changed from spinwings to Bohning Impulse - helical setup - , then to ICE. Impulse was to fragile unfortunately.

[@dustytotheMax]

Thanks for your videos, Jake. Did you think about including the Bohning Impulse vanes in this video? I am looking for a durable vane for my son so we don't have to replace vanes all the time

[@miketurner6118]

Cool T-shirt

[@timothyhall963]

How do the wave vanes for use on compound bows?

[@Scuracane]

Can you use these on a compound or are there strictly for trad?

[@dnakoldarkside6358]

hello jake. is there an ebook version of your book? if not, please consider it since it would mean a lot to those who can pay for it and dwld it and read it on their mobile or laptops everywhere around the world. :)

[@davidhefner5668]

Center of Gravity should be where on a arrow. My guess as far forward as possible.

[@leonsmit8575]

Why are spinewings bether than just angled fletching for rotation? I put fethers under lets say half of defree off straight in side i want arow to rotare and i can even tell how many times arow is going to rotare by that alinhment on 20m. And i did fletched spinewings, and i do not see diference on smaller distances. And as target is far like 70meters i do les than degree (maibe a 20minutes off right) for arow to rotare as many times as it makes arc-par flex, to make same numbers of turns. So why so much money on curled vane when simple whane under small angle off 0 degree makes same result? At least for me.

[@leonsmit8575]

I realy do understand dinamics from phisical and matematical side. Undertsand there is difference, but in reality you get same result, did sou tried that. Have to be able to measure minute of angle to do that.

[@CristiNeagu]

4:21 I'm reading the packaging on those spider vanes and I can't help but laugh. "Made from a champion for a champion." Are those vanes actually made *_FROM_* Brady Ellison? 😂

[@wanr5701]

So what you are implying is adding more weight at the back through vanes not just stiffen the dynamic spine, but also making it more critical to release errors. At the same time it may reduce the FOC slightly.
Does this parallel with the higher FOC concept that was proposed by some to make the arrows weaker at the back therefore more forgiving to release errors? Do adding more weight to the front will counteract the impact of having slightly more weight at the back?

[@mrnice752]

Yes and no. You can think of the front and back of the arrow as two seperate levers. Adding mass to the front reduces the dynamic spine consistently, it forces the shaft the flex more before the inertia in the tip mass is overcome. Adding mass to the back though, absorbs some of that energy on each flex, which makes the dynamic spine seem stiffer. The amount of energy absorbed by the added mass at the back is far less consistant as it depends entirely on the cleanness of release. What Jake is suggesting is that the less mass there is at the back of the arrow, the less energy change there is due to release inconsistency. Hope this helps.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Yes This.

[@mickfroggatt4446]

Hi Jake
Very informative video thanks.
Have you had any experience of the Bohning griffin vanes?

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

not at the moment

[@mickfroggatt4446]

Jake Kaminski thanks Jake

[@mayankdabral1035]

Unavailable on Amazon

[@alandalton4835]

Thanks Jake. I've got a couple of follow-up questions, if you have time. Is the effect of mylar vanes as noticeable on parallel vanes? Also, can't the point weight simply be reduced and so stiffen the arrow at the front, making the back relatively weaker without changing vanes? If tuning the arrow is a balance between length, front and rear weight, can't slightly heavier vanes be compensated for? If this is the case, where would the benefit of a mylar vane come from?

[@NicoThiry87]

Hi Jake, when will your new book be available in Europe?

[@Waltham1892]

Jake doesn't speak European...

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

It is available worldwide at the moment, via amazon and I ship worldwide through my website (signed copies). Also Quicks carries the books as well.

[@jabbbahuttatra5456]

Should i offset spine wing or just straight?

[@agusetijotriabadi6229]

Spinwings straight. Otherwise they'll spin too much and can cause a parachute effect that slows down the arrow. For regular vanes you can offset them.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Depends on the particular setup, more info to come in the future!

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Actually depends very much on the vane, arrow weight, bow weight, arrow speed and distance shot. But you are correct, you can have too much drag causing a parachuting effect.

[@valentineyau1746]

@@JakeKaminskiArchery Hi Jake, was there any further follow up videos on this topic at all?

[@mkshffr4936]

Then of course there are feathers. :D

[@social3ngin33rin]

But your vane gluing device is expensive af!!! unless you finally changed your technique. I've tried using a normal okay vane fletcher and it just doesn't come out as nice :/