ERRATA CORRIGE: The two motors of the C844 are dedicated to the cassette transport operations. The double speed is obtained simply increasing the velocity of the same two motors.
Thank you. I was a Dual dealer when this tape deck came out. I was going to point that fact out. Thanks for the correction. Jeremy Travis Formerly Teletape London.
Correct! This is the case with so many other decks out there too. A whole slew of Technics brand cassette decks have 2 motors. One precise speed motor dedicated to drive the capastan only and another motor for other tasks like winding the tape forward/backward. ALSO, the tape speed is changed by changing the speed of the capastan motor. The other motor does not change.
You are most fortunate my friend, that 844 is a fabulous unit that can well hold its own among the giants. Thank you very much for reminding us how truly special it is!
I have wanted Dual cassette deck for ages ever since a friend showed me one. Now I want this model. I always found it super cool that you could grab a tape while it was playing.
Hello ANA[DIA]OG, thank you for a great introduction. I bought the C844 sometime around 1981/82... 1200DM / 600Euro was a lot of money. I bought the C844 for my choir recordings. In an AB test (C844 against HIFI video recorder (3000DM)), the C844 was equal. (C844: double speed, Dolby C and pure iron cassette)... Of course the video tape / with helical track was unbeatably cheaper... The whole thing was topped off with my ASC6002S and the Super-D noise reduction system from Sanyo. However, that was a different league and an 1100m tape for 60DM was quickly sold at 38 / half track. I still have the C844 today. LG Manny
That higher speed makes a huge difference. I heard it on an old BIC two speed deck. Dynamics, detail, distortion, frequency extension all much better on tapes recorded at 2X speed.
I had a C-844 in the 80s but lost it in a house fire. Could tape UK Radio 3 broadcasts and from my Linn, Ittok, Asak without any appreciable loss from the original source. Beautifully engineered and a joy to use.
Even given losses from hearing this on TH-cam, I'm impressed that Type 1 can sound THAT good at either speed! I actually think that the double speed DID sound better. I (being an old open reel guy..) never understood why more cassette decks did not have speed options.
Yes, And that's why I always wondered why there was not an option for at least 3.75 ips for Cassette as a standard "thing" like it was for Open reel. @@nuznikas
Hey mate, I want to just say thank you for this video! Couple of years ago I have seen this and then I have found one C-844 on sale for 130 NZ$ so I bought that and now two years later I'm owner of two beautiful C-844 who I had restored personally and now those are close to be perfectly restored.
Instructive and easy understanding perfect video. I like your moto- the music was born analogue despite nowadays everything is almost digital even original master records.
I remember seeing this deck in their '83 catalogue and being quite impressed -- at least on paper. Never saw one firsthand tho. We had a mediocre sounding C939 in the 70s which gaves us a lot of grief. The C844 is clearly a superior machine! Oh, and I still regularly spin my Dual 701, their first direct drive turntable. 😊
Jeff! Thanks for your comment. I just realized that I completely forgot to give you some feedback on your new album. I can only say that I love it. This one is shorter but it has a nice Latin-prog touch that reminds me of Santana. Great job!
Brilliant machine, very desirable. Great video BTW. The high speed recording seemed to provide slightly greater dynamics and cleaner vocals but on You Tube it's hardly a method of comparison. The Fox cassette is unexpectedly competent. Thanks a bunch!!
Thank you! I recently discovered that TH-cam does not compress audio (even high-res) so that is why, this time, I did not add the tracks for download as usual.
@@anadialog For starters, TH-cam does not play audio at 320kbps, even on the highest video resolution. It does not come even close to 320kbps. TH-cam uses two types of audio formats - AAC (wrapped in an MP4 container) or Opus in a WebM container. For AAC, TH-cam will play a maximum audio bitrate of around 126 kbps. For Opus, it can be between 56 kbps and 165 kbps. This is regardless of the audio source format being uploaded because TH-cam will automatically re-encode videos to use their format. So even if you upload a video with 24/96 lossless audio, TH-cam will convert it to 126 kbps AAC in an MP4 container
Thank you for the very helpful video! I checked on yamaha ns10m studio, "double speed" for detailed and thick, wide, much warmer sound! the shaker on the left is clear and very realistic! vocals are also thicker and warmer! I think this is not a small difference!
Now, i really want this deck! But they are upwards of 1000$ . Thanks to you, i have Yamaha K 1000, KX 1200, C300, and a Technics RS B905 decks 😂😅😂. I played my Technics at a local audio show and people were surprised! Didn't use NR, only Chrome tape.
Try recording at both speeds WITHOUT Dolby C. The higher speed should capture all the dynamics, with naturally lower tape noise, but without the slightly compressed character that Dolby C usually creates in a recording.
Ich hatte auch so einen! Ich habe ihn ca. Ende der 1980er an meine Stammkneipe verkauft! Dort lief er bis 2015 (!), bis mein Wirt mit 80 aufhörte und die Kneipe zu machte.
Vettem TECHNICS AZ-6, PIONEER CTF-850, 750, DUAL844, és sok fajtát. MINDET SZERETEM !! VINTAGE, van súlya, illata, történelme és története !!! ZENE örök és mindenkié !!!!!
I still have my Nakamichi 682ZX Cassette Deck, I actually bought this deck in a pawn shop for 60 bucks when it just came out of pawn back in 1986. They had no idea what they had, I knew what it was, they thought it was just like all the other decks they had in their shop. This is a very high end deck that sold for just over 1600.00 bucks new back in 1986. Today they are still going for over 2200.00 bucks and up!
I've got to do some maintenance work on this deck, it's not working right. Really haven't used it it much in the last few years but I feel that it's just the age of the deck and it's gonna need belts and/or rollers, cleaning, lubrication. I did manage to download a complete service manual on line for this deck, but the actual work might be above my expertise of experience. I also found all the belt and rollers on Ebay for the job. As you know, this deck is not your run of the mill tape deck, it got lots of critical moving parts! I did locate a technician that use to work for IBM, that just opened a local shop, any suggestions?
This test , demonstration is 100%! I was amazed how clear in both speeds sounded as clear as a 💿 CD! That tape deck by DUAL is new to me as you mentioned very popular with their turntables! Fantastic I wish i could get this vintage model! Well done! 👋👋👋
Yes cassette decks are amazing even though most people do not use them anymore since the digital era but nothing can be compared to a good sounding analog tape. I prefer the AKAI GX and GXC and Sony ES and AIWA ADF- models as they touch my pleasure ear buds when listening through any of the mentioned brands.
If you look closely at the frequency response graphs, at the slower speed the high frequency roll off starts around 12K and at the higher speed the roll off starts at 14K, so golden ears could tell a difference.
Dual is an vintage Hifi German company. In my country, Spain are famous for yours Phono turntables in the years 60-70. Sorry for my poor English. Bye. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(brand)
nice vid! i was close to throw away my collection of tapes from the 80ies, assuming poor quality after decades, car use and because i never payed much attention to equipment and settings those years. this year i got me a harman kardon TD212 (1988-1991 in the 600 DM price range....so half the price of your C844) for 25 euro on ebay, just to check those tapes. the sound blew me away, much better than i remember (and obviously today i have better speaker and amp too) i can only agree with you that tapes DO sound good and i would add, you dont necessarily need a high end tape recorder such as the c844 to enjoy good music. definitively nice addition to vinyls.
I had to change two pairs of headphones, but there is a difference. I loved double speed also for the visual effect. It gives a professional equipment feeling.
As you did state in the comments these two motors are for transport of the tape, not to make it double speed. Here is how and why this was done. As far as I know this idea started with the open reel-to-reel tape decks to lower wow and flutter problem, keeping tape speed very constant. However they used three motors. One for each reel and one to drive the capstan that pulled the tape across the heads. This meant that there was no possibility of any extra drag on the motor pulling the tape across the heads and meant a steady speed. Each reel motor was used at a lower voltage to pull up the slack and keep the tape from coming off the reel to easily, then it ran higher voltage on the RR or FF modes. For a cassette they just did not bother with the third motor to the full reel side but only used it for the take-up reel in play and rec mode and for other fast tape movements, and a separate motor for the capstan. Good demo ... I have a Sony two motor unit.
Top notch decks do have three motors, or even more! The Revox B215 has 4 and the Nakamichi Dragon 6, although some are used for extra features not for true transport...
i just got a sony tc k81 for 500$ and because i record all my tapes at high speed i modded the speed regulater circuit by bypassed the speed controls limiting resistor 100K and putting in a pot with a much higher resistance from 150k to 250k now the deck can play and record anywhere from .5X all the way up to 4 times normal run speed. it sounds amazing and im considering changing the values of the bandwidth limiting capacitors to i crease bandwidth.
I like this deck. So much, that I have two of these. I have to disagree about the performance difference between normal and high speed. Especially with ferric tapes, the higher speed transforms the performance to a level that becomes truly amazing. Perhaps the source of the content you tried didn't contain much high frequencies but with content that has a high dynamic range and high frequency content, the differences become pretty apparent. And if you forget about the built-in dolby and use dbx, then the results are simply astonishing. No need to use metal tapes at high speed.
I agree, the content was frequency poor but with other types of music the results are more obvious. It is indeed a great machine and I fully agree about DBX, for that I have a dedicated deck! ;-)
When one has a 3-hd deck, the best test of the tape & deck imho is to toggle back and forth between source & tape to listen to the differences during recording.
I have Onkyo TA-2055 but if have Dual C-844, i may never use the double speed playback and record features since I mostly adore pre recording releases of cassette tapes but damn this piece of equipment is appearing super fabulous. And i kind of generating amusement for recording my own mixtapes in better quality. 😃
@@anadialog Haha thank ya i like the ya there is also yo like yo man hahaha :-) Stay safe there dude here in Thessaloniki where i live the convid got worsen & worsen from such a save city it was :-(
@@anadialog I know from the news how bad is in Italy and indeed it's like a sci-fi movie as you said but who could believe it ......... my best wishes for all the world .
I bought a Nakamichi MR-1 about 20 years ago. Before that I bought a CR-1 brand new in 89. Love them both. Looking for a CR-3 now. The CR-7 is out of my price range.
In the movie sixteen candles (1983-84) you can find a Dual and Nakamichi dragon in The Party of Jacke . In totally wasted conditions with tape tangled and all 😂
I worked in the Hi Fi Trade as a buyer manager. We specialised it tape decks of all kinds. By far the most popular brand we sold was Sony. Most of our customer base was quite wealthy and the rest was just the average person. The tape enthusiast harked after Nakamichi as the penultimate deck although not all were prepared to pay the price. The most popular brand by far was Sony and I used to turn over about half a million pound a year from this one branch. They had their minor faults but most were an easy fix. When you got to the price of his Dual deck the issue was the other features you got on similar priced decks and often you could get trim-able bias settings and it you were paying £200 + for a deck then you were defiantly an enthusiast and wanted them on a deck so you would probably buy Teac Marantz or Aiwa because they all had good reputations. So sadly although a brilliantly reliable deck it just didn't see in enough numbers. Jeremy Travis Formerly Teletape London.
Thanks for sharing your experience Jeremy! I know that but boy if this deck sounds good, in playback and recording. I have several decks but this one is among my favorites. Sony decks are nice but not good IMHO.
@@anadialog I agree with you. The Hi Fi press in the UK became obsessed with telling consumers that Chrome tapes wore out tape heads and that was why permalloy heads were seen as a bad thing. The reality was that permalloy heads make for much better sound quality. My Ferrograph reel to reel deck sounded much better than my Sony reel to reel recorder. I had many tape decks with permalloy heads and my friends agreed that they sounded better. Companies Like BASF lost out badly which was shame because they made brilliant tapes. The saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink also apples to consumers as well when it comes to them choosing equipment.
Just a note about the motor setup of this deck - one motor is for capstan and the other one is used for the reels. The speed is set by the electronics driving it... Nice deck anyway - could be one to look for. Marantz did dual-speed decks too, the one I have (waiting for some repair) is the SD 3020. Would be nice to compare these two...
hi i got my tascam 238 working and the new re fit of the capstan motor take the 3 3/4 deck up to 7 1/2 and down to 1 7/8 i put in a 4000 rpm motir and did all the speed test's this is why a love the otari deck you can take the audio block heads of and go up and down on size of tape i will say i was lost for word;s at 7 1/2 the 238 sounds mind blowing it take a lot to take it down the audio gain i had to do alot of re tune as levels and eq have to be done if you can change over a motor to make it sound good do it i work on alot of deck over the years love your video's
Loooove all the analog matérial !! Always looking the mechanic and the reels turning while listening the music and drinking a fresh beer on my sofa.... But I never heard about this deck...it’s a great discover for me. I didn’t know that Dual have made this type of machine. Thank you very much for letting me know that and for your (excellents) vidéos. Still on the channel.
When Dual and BIC came out with their double speed decks, Nakamichi gave them a big middle finger by introducing the 680ZX, which delivered better performance than most decks, while running at half speed.
I have Nak 680ZX and Dual C846, CC1462 (successors to C844) and to my ears Dual at high speed plays better than Nak at normal speed, when comparing at normal speed Nak is noticeably better, and at half speed Nak cannot compete with Dual (or itself) at normal speed. The sound quality just isn't there when recording at half speed, maybe good enough for speech or some radio shows, but nothing more demanding,.
@anadialog Interesting video. I have a Teac C 3X deck with the double speed function. I want to try recording a tape at high speed but I have a couple of questions and I hope you can help me. 1- If I record a standard 60-minute tape at double speed, then the total duration of the tape when playing it would be 30 minutes? 2- A tape recorded at double speed can only be played on a deck that has the high-speed playback function? If I play it on a computer that does not have that function, would the playback speed be half?
I would think that the double speed would improve the SN ratio and MOL of higher frequencies of the audio material, and not necessarily the frequency response. During recording, decent decks utilize an EQ curve called "pre-emphasis" which is applied to counter the effects of self-erasure of high-frequency signals. High-frequency wave prints are so close together that they are in danger of cancelling out each other. With a higher tape speed, the prints are spaced further apart and the tape can hold a higher bandwidth before EQ is necessary. I would assume that the EQ during double speed isn't as drastic as the EQ during normal speed, and as such, the tape doesn't saturate and distort quite as easily.
Can't hear a difference here on TH-cam, but probably a Type-2 tape would reveal it, as you suggest. And the idea of offering 2x speed is brilliant. But then why did the hi-speed dubbing function in 80s and 90s twin decks not perform so well?
That is a very good question. The answer is simple. With double speed you are using a double amount of tape. In fact, on a 90min tape, you can record only 45 minutes. High-speed dubbing, is quite the opposite, it is recording the normal amount of information, a 90min tape with 90min of music, but it is recorded at a very high speed instead of the necessary time to properly magnetize the oxide, leading to a loss of information, with out counting the low quality tapes employed in the process. In other words, the signal itself is accelerated in order to speed up also the tape and make the whole process done in a few minutes instead of hours. In double speed the signal is played and recorded in real time but the amount of tape is double!
Here is my theory on high speed dubbing. 1. The tape heads used by the manufacturers weren't that great, especially the ones found in all in one component systems (like Emerson, Sounddesign, etc.), like the ones found in retail stores like Wal-Mart. The heads didn't have a good high frequency response. You double the tape speed and that exacerbates the problem. You have a rather dull sounding tape as a result. Prerecorded tapes have the same problem (dull high end) because the tape duplication machines ran them at very high speeds (way beyond double speed). 2. At double speed, with high speed dubbing, anomalies like wow and flutter (esp. wow) are worse. 3. If the cassette deck has a head azimuth error, that magnifies the problem even more.
Yes, of course. Not only, for best results Japanese formulas go with Japanese decks and EU formulas with EU decks etc etc. Clearly you don’t know me and the channel. This is the temple of tape! A sacred medium! ;-)
Most people might not know this, but one of the problems with recording anything audio and video is compression. So this is even true in analog recording, that is the bigger reason why a faster speed sounds better. You can get the frequency response out of better tape but it is still compressed because of the speed of the recording. In the modern digital recordings to much compression (smaller file size) (lower speed, or less tape used) means part of the music will be lost or mushed together making it sound unclear or digitized. This often happens or is noticeable with orchestras or choirs in harmony, if it is compressed to small it is not clear and digital noise shows up. In the analog tape world it shows up mostly in the high frequencies as distortion or it is just lost. This is also why on a LP record the music with the most dramatic sound should be on the outside tracks, due to the speed of the record, most inches per second on the outside then in the middle. 8-track tape ran at 3 3/4 ips so they did have better sound because of that but the tracking problems and tape wear was a problem.
@@anadialog Simple logic a larger pulley will make the other item it is driving spin faster, then a pulley of the same size or smaller. Larger gear to a smaller gear with variables the whole way through with different size gears. On a race track the inside is shorter the the outside so if you are always on the outside you have to run faster to keep up. Ariens used a friction disc system to make their walk behind machines have completely variable walking speed. See this video here: th-cam.com/video/TcT-cdugH_I/w-d-xo.html ; from 5:46 to 6:55. Just like a merry-go-round you get the faster ride on the outside then toward the center, yet the merry-go-round is running the same speed on the drive shaft.
The FECR tape would be a great one to try ..I have never had one and they are expensive to buy now but too bad the formulation died out so fast ,,I have read great reviews about the sound it can make..
The sound is great, I have no idea why they decided to kill it....apart from the bias issues, I think it was just too expensive considering that a good type II was just as good.
The difference is the level low level detail, instrumental harmonics. That is the value. So even with low level resolution of youtube it was identifiable. That makes it worth it. I have a couple of BIC dual speed decks. Unfortunately, the person that i used to have tune up the decks, who was BIC's company repair perso, passed away and i can't find anyone who can get it going agoin. If you know anyone who vcan repair high speed cassette deck. Please let me know. When it was working properly, the sound was good enough for my friend who had a mega buck system.
TH-cam does not compress audio. I used to think so but I discovered that I was wrong. I just sent my deck for minor repairs so, no I don't have a lab to suggest. The best way is to open a thread on major taoe forums like tapeheads or also gearsluts etc.
I just bought a Dual Electronics CV-40 amplifier that is supposedly less powerful than what I had before (mid 90s pioneer receiver), but it blows the socks off of the other setup and sounds much more real and visceral. Starting to think about a tape deck, so it was really cool to see a nice tape deck come out of the same brand, if a few years later. I haven't found much info on this brand. If you have any other suggestions about when or how to incorporate their stuff, I'd love to know. Thanks!
![ANA[DIA]LOG](http://yt3.ggpht.com/K0qr1ndqDdGUyxbMUYesdA0KM3wZ-_upZ4bvQR8Vi_Ie1773eXoIXY2VblfzWYRJnwxd5pVrbXw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
ERRATA CORRIGE: The two motors of the C844 are dedicated to the cassette transport operations. The double speed is obtained simply increasing the velocity of the same two motors.
Thank you. I was a Dual dealer when this tape deck came out. I was going to point that fact out. Thanks for the correction.
Jeremy Travis Formerly Teletape London.
@Sannesthesia Do you know if both capstans/flywheels are the same of there should be some dimentional difference?
Correct! This is the case with so many other decks out there too. A whole slew of Technics brand cassette decks have 2 motors. One precise speed motor dedicated to drive the capastan only and another motor for other tasks like winding the tape forward/backward. ALSO, the tape speed is changed by changing the speed of the capastan motor. The other motor does not change.
You are most fortunate my friend, that 844 is a fabulous unit that can well hold its own among the giants. Thank you very much for reminding us how truly special it is!
I took the plunge and bought a cassette deck almost one year ago. Now I have vinyl and cassettes both spinning happily making me happy.
Good job man!!
I have wanted Dual cassette deck for ages ever since a friend showed me one.
Now I want this model.
I always found it super cool that you could grab a tape while it was playing.
Nice to see cassette decks on your programme. Tape is most certainly not dead.
More coming!
Hello ANA[DIA]OG, thank you for a great introduction. I bought the C844 sometime around
1981/82... 1200DM / 600Euro was a lot of money. I bought the C844 for my choir recordings. In
an AB test (C844 against HIFI video recorder (3000DM)), the C844 was equal. (C844: double
speed, Dolby C and pure iron cassette)... Of course the video tape / with helical track was
unbeatably cheaper... The whole thing was topped off with my ASC6002S and the Super-D noise
reduction system from Sanyo. However, that was a different league and an 1100m tape for 60DM
was quickly sold at 38 / half track. I still have the C844 today. LG Manny
Nice!👍🏻
That higher speed makes a huge difference. I heard it on an old BIC two speed deck. Dynamics, detail, distortion, frequency extension all much better on tapes recorded at 2X speed.
I had a C-844 in the 80s but lost it in a house fire. Could tape UK Radio 3 broadcasts and from my Linn, Ittok, Asak without any appreciable loss from the original source. Beautifully engineered and a joy to use.
RIP C-844.
I have 1 of those. I sold my lenco turntable. Tried selling the cassette to the guy he wasnt interested. Now im glad
Even given losses from hearing this on TH-cam, I'm impressed that Type 1 can sound THAT good at either speed! I actually think that the double speed DID sound better. I (being an old open reel guy..) never understood why more cassette decks did not have speed options.
Exactly! Try this test: th-cam.com/video/xtIdGDk4g0M/w-d-xo.html
More speed means more bandwith and hi frequancies
Yes, And that's why I always wondered why there was not an option for at least 3.75 ips for Cassette as a standard "thing" like it was for Open reel. @@nuznikas
Nice cassette deck I always love Vu meters they just look so cool
your audio quality on your youtube videos is excellent, and I really appreciate it. thank you!
Hey mate, I want to just say thank you for this video!
Couple of years ago I have seen this and then I have found one C-844 on sale for 130 NZ$ so I bought that and now two years later I'm owner of two beautiful C-844 who I had restored personally and now those are close to be perfectly restored.
Long live the cassette !!! (and reel to reel)
I listen to cr-4 (without Dolby) and A77. Wonderful sounds.
Sorry bad english!
Crazy deck! And from Dual! Who would believe!
It is one of the best decks ever made. Looking for one, too😊.
The dial lights up beautiful
Instructive and easy understanding perfect video. I like your moto- the music was born analogue despite nowadays everything is almost digital even original master records.
I still love tape player,recorder and turn table.good video.thx.keep up
I remember seeing this deck in their '83 catalogue and being quite impressed -- at least on paper. Never saw one firsthand tho. We had a mediocre sounding C939 in the 70s which gaves us a lot of grief. The C844 is clearly a superior machine! Oh, and I still regularly spin my Dual 701, their first direct drive turntable. 😊
Had NAD decks most of my life, I now own a Harman Kardon deck, very happy with it.
fantastic cassette deck . Sounds amazing too. never seen one with the hi speed feature, very cool
Jeff! Thanks for your comment. I just realized that I completely forgot to give you some feedback on your new album. I can only say that I love it. This one is shorter but it has a nice Latin-prog touch that reminds me of Santana. Great job!
ANA[DIA]LOG thanks man, I really appreciate it.
such wonders of architecture and their secret of creation are forever lost!
Brilliant machine, very desirable. Great video BTW. The high speed recording seemed to provide slightly greater dynamics and cleaner vocals but on You Tube it's hardly a method of comparison. The Fox cassette is unexpectedly competent. Thanks a bunch!!
Thank you! I recently discovered that TH-cam does not compress audio (even high-res) so that is why, this time, I did not add the tracks for download as usual.
@@anadialog For starters, TH-cam does not play audio at 320kbps, even on the highest video resolution. It does not come even close to 320kbps. TH-cam uses two types of audio formats - AAC (wrapped in an MP4 container) or Opus in a WebM container.
For AAC, TH-cam will play a maximum audio bitrate of around 126 kbps. For Opus, it can be between 56 kbps and 165 kbps. This is regardless of the audio source format being uploaded because TH-cam will automatically re-encode videos to use their format. So even if you upload a video with 24/96 lossless audio, TH-cam will convert it to 126 kbps AAC in an MP4 container
Great test ! Amazing recording !
Dual made nice stuff, I have a turntable. This deck looks great!
How is the TT?
I have to admit that the recording does sound really good. I never expected this kind of quality from Dual's gear tbh.
Thank you for the very helpful video! I checked on yamaha ns10m studio, "double speed" for detailed and thick, wide, much warmer sound! the shaker on the left is clear and very realistic! vocals are also thicker and warmer! I think this is not a small difference!
The selector for pure chrome (European) and cobalt doped (Japanese) type 2s is awesome. Probably the only deck that had this capability. I want one!
True, the sound impresses me everytime I use it...outstanding!
Now, i really want this deck! But they are upwards of 1000$ . Thanks to you, i have Yamaha K 1000, KX 1200, C300, and a Technics RS B905 decks 😂😅😂.
I played my Technics at a local audio show and people were surprised! Didn't use NR, only Chrome tape.
Try recording at both speeds WITHOUT Dolby C. The higher speed should capture all the dynamics, with naturally lower tape noise, but without the slightly compressed character that Dolby C usually creates in a recording.
nice looking! remember a alpage!
I use a dual c820. Found it for 5$ at goodwill. Not sure how it compares to others but I love it.
lovely deck , i have a Dual c839rc auto reverse still going strong
Cool!
Ich hatte auch so einen! Ich habe ihn ca. Ende der 1980er an meine Stammkneipe verkauft! Dort lief er bis 2015 (!), bis mein Wirt mit 80 aufhörte und die Kneipe zu machte.
Vettem TECHNICS AZ-6, PIONEER CTF-850, 750, DUAL844, és sok fajtát. MINDET SZERETEM !! VINTAGE, van súlya, illata, történelme és története !!! ZENE örök és mindenkié !!!!!
Mi hai fatto sognare! Questa piastra è un capolavoro!
Grazie!
I have Dual C-816, which is less capable but still very good, high quality deck, and it is made in Japan strangely!
Nice vid. It might be nice to try this again with type IV tape, since it will mainly be the high frequencies that will improve with double speed.
True, several people ask for that. I will do that soon!
I still have my Nakamichi 682ZX Cassette Deck, I actually bought this deck in a pawn shop for 60 bucks when it just came out of pawn back in 1986. They had no idea what they had, I knew what it was, they thought it was just like all the other decks they had in their shop. This is a very high end deck that sold for just over 1600.00 bucks new back in 1986. Today they are still going for over 2200.00 bucks and up!
Great catch!
I've got to do some maintenance work on this deck, it's not working right. Really haven't used it it much in the last few years but I feel that it's just the age of the deck and it's gonna need belts and/or rollers, cleaning, lubrication. I did manage to download a complete service manual on line for this deck, but the actual work might be above my expertise of experience. I also found all the belt and rollers on Ebay for the job. As you know, this deck is not your run of the mill tape deck, it got lots of critical moving parts! I did locate a technician that use to work for IBM, that just opened a local shop, any suggestions?
I live in Italy so I am not of big help I'm afraid! But yes, find a guy or a lab and send it over. It is definitely worth the investment.
@@anadialog Thanks, I was thinking the same thing!
Very nice design!
Ohja, I remeber this one. It was/is so good, we used it for Masterrecordings...when the reel was out ;-)
This test , demonstration is 100%! I was amazed how clear in both speeds sounded as clear as a 💿 CD! That tape deck by DUAL is new to me as you mentioned very popular with their turntables! Fantastic I wish i could get this vintage model! Well done! 👋👋👋
I have never seen a deck with 6 tape selections and the FECR tape is very good from what I have read on tape forums ..
I know! Its a great deck, even without calibrating settings...at an affordable price!
amazing isn't it?
Yes cassette decks are amazing even though most people do not use them anymore since the digital era but nothing can be compared to a good sounding analog tape. I prefer the AKAI GX and GXC and Sony ES and AIWA ADF- models as they touch my pleasure ear buds when listening through any of the mentioned brands.
Great decks! Congrats!
@@anadialog Thanks!
Nice! I MISS cassette decks!
Make Tape Decks great again! Ues Tape Decks everyday!
🤣🤣
Great Tape Deck
Very good video! Thanks so much for making the time & effort. I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.
Thanks Claude!
great sound
Amazing!
The few high frequency pasages of the singer were easy noticebly louder and higher in the faster recorded version .
Interesting, the double speed improvement is hearable even over TH-cam. Certainly reel-to-real decks have an advantage, but convenience.
If you look closely at the frequency response graphs, at the slower speed the high frequency roll off starts around 12K and at the higher speed the roll off starts at 14K, so golden ears could tell a difference.
I'm a native Japanese so this is my first to see this your brand. Basically looks same as the decks of this decade which made in Japan.
Dual is an vintage Hifi German company. In my country, Spain are famous for yours Phono turntables in the years 60-70. Sorry for my poor English. Bye. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(brand)
nice vid! i was close to throw away my collection of tapes from the 80ies, assuming poor quality after decades, car use and because i never payed much attention to equipment and settings those years. this year i got me a harman kardon TD212 (1988-1991 in the 600 DM price range....so half the price of your C844) for 25 euro on ebay, just to check those tapes. the sound blew me away, much better than i remember (and obviously today i have better speaker and amp too) i can only agree with you that tapes DO sound good and i would add, you dont necessarily need a high end tape recorder such as the c844 to enjoy good music. definitively nice addition to vinyls.
I had to change two pairs of headphones, but there is a difference. I loved double speed also for the visual effect. It gives a professional equipment feeling.
Trust me, very little in the video. I recorded headhunters by Herbie Hancock with chrome cassette and double speed and it blew me out my shoes!
@@anadialog well, that sounds like a good idea for a sequel to this video 😊
As you did state in the comments these two motors are for transport of the tape, not to make it double speed. Here is how and why this was done. As far as I know this idea started with the open reel-to-reel tape decks to lower wow and flutter problem, keeping tape speed very constant. However they used three motors. One for each reel and one to drive the capstan that pulled the tape across the heads. This meant that there was no possibility of any extra drag on the motor pulling the tape across the heads and meant a steady speed. Each reel motor was used at a lower voltage to pull up the slack and keep the tape from coming off the reel to easily, then it ran higher voltage on the RR or FF modes. For a cassette they just did not bother with the third motor to the full reel side but only used it for the take-up reel in play and rec mode and for other fast tape movements, and a separate motor for the capstan. Good demo ... I have a Sony two motor unit.
Top notch decks do have three motors, or even more! The Revox B215 has 4 and the Nakamichi Dragon 6, although some are used for extra features not for true transport...
@@anadialog Found it: ONKYO Integra TA-2070 Cassette Tape Deck.
I love cassette decks and always use dolby C when recording and playing tapes!
Dolby C works great for me, on Pioneer deck. I forget the model.
I like analog vu meter. Cool Deck.
Thanks for the informative video! You should add the very beautiful Braun Atelier C3 to the list, along with its ADS incarnation.
Good job
i just got a sony tc k81 for 500$ and because i record all my tapes at high speed i modded the speed regulater circuit by bypassed the speed controls limiting resistor 100K and putting in a pot with a much higher resistance from 150k to 250k now the deck can play and record anywhere from .5X all the way up to 4 times normal run speed. it sounds amazing and im considering changing the values of the bandwidth limiting capacitors to i crease bandwidth.
Cool! If you were able to install a 2 track head it would probably blow anything else out of the water!
I like this deck. So much, that I have two of these. I have to disagree about the performance difference between normal and high speed. Especially with ferric tapes, the higher speed transforms the performance to a level that becomes truly amazing. Perhaps the source of the content you tried didn't contain much high frequencies but with content that has a high dynamic range and high frequency content, the differences become pretty apparent. And if you forget about the built-in dolby and use dbx, then the results are simply astonishing. No need to use metal tapes at high speed.
I agree, the content was frequency poor but with other types of music the results are more obvious. It is indeed a great machine and I fully agree about DBX, for that I have a dedicated deck! ;-)
When one has a 3-hd deck, the best test of the tape & deck imho is to toggle back and forth between source & tape to listen to the differences during recording.
Nice tape deck! I think Techmoan will love this!
I have Onkyo TA-2055 but if have Dual C-844, i may never use the double speed playback and record features since I mostly adore pre recording releases of cassette tapes but damn this piece of equipment is appearing super fabulous. And i kind of generating amusement for recording my own mixtapes in better quality. 😃
Vettem ilyet !! KIRÁLY !!!!!!!!
Cool!!
This a fantastic cassette deck i think one of the best decks ever by my opinion ,
i'd might be wrong but still ............. :-)
I'm with ya!
@@anadialog
Haha thank ya
i like the ya there is also yo like yo man hahaha :-)
Stay safe there dude here in Thessaloniki where i live the convid got worsen & worsen from such a save city it was :-(
Same here...it's Ike living in a sci-fi movie...
@@anadialog I know from the news how bad is in Italy and indeed it's like a sci-fi movie as you said but who could believe it ......... my best wishes for all the world .
Stay safe!
Impressive.
I bought a Nakamichi MR-1 about 20 years ago. Before that I bought a CR-1 brand new in 89. Love them both. Looking for a CR-3 now. The CR-7 is out of my price range.
Try saving for a CR7, it's one of the top 10 decks in the world, if not the top 5!
@@anadialog I would say top 2, lol
In the movie sixteen candles (1983-84) you can find a Dual and Nakamichi dragon in The Party of Jacke . In totally wasted conditions with tape tangled and all 😂
And it wears out the heads 2x as fast.. Congratulations
Gotta give to have! But I wouldn't say twice, it's not proportional.
I worked in the Hi Fi Trade as a buyer manager. We specialised it tape decks of all kinds. By far the most popular brand we sold was Sony.
Most of our customer base was quite wealthy and the rest was just the average person.
The tape enthusiast harked after Nakamichi as the penultimate deck although not all were prepared to pay the price.
The most popular brand by far was Sony and I used to turn over about half a million pound a year from this one branch. They had their minor faults but most were an easy fix.
When you got to the price of his Dual deck the issue was the other features you got on similar priced decks and often you could get trim-able bias settings and it you were paying £200 + for a deck then you were defiantly an enthusiast and wanted them on a deck so you would probably buy Teac Marantz or Aiwa because they all had good reputations. So sadly although a brilliantly reliable deck it just didn't see in enough numbers.
Jeremy Travis Formerly Teletape London.
Thanks for sharing your experience Jeremy! I know that but boy if this deck sounds good, in playback and recording. I have several decks but this one is among my favorites. Sony decks are nice but not good IMHO.
@@anadialog I agree with you. The Hi Fi press in the UK became obsessed with telling consumers that Chrome tapes wore out tape heads and that was why permalloy heads were seen as a bad thing.
The reality was that permalloy heads make for much better sound quality. My Ferrograph reel to reel deck sounded much better than my Sony reel to reel recorder.
I had many tape decks with permalloy heads and my friends agreed that they sounded better.
Companies Like BASF lost out badly which was shame because they made brilliant tapes.
The saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink also apples to consumers as well when it comes to them choosing equipment.
excellent...
Feeling nostalgic 🙏 the sound quality is too good
Great review, thanks. Just checked the going price on ebay: USD 1000 to 1500! Nakamichi price!
Woah! Use Hifishark for more results...
I used it in the 80th ... it was nice
Great video ! Thanks a lot ! I own one and it is amazing ! Keep up !
Super deck
Just a note about the motor setup of this deck - one motor is for capstan and the other one is used for the reels. The speed is set by the electronics driving it...
Nice deck anyway - could be one to look for. Marantz did dual-speed decks too, the one I have (waiting for some repair) is the SD 3020. Would be nice to compare these two...
While I was saying it I knew it wasn't coming out properly, in fact I threw in a few 'in this case' 'also' etc...
hi i got my tascam 238 working and the new re fit of the capstan motor take the 3 3/4 deck up to 7 1/2 and down to 1 7/8 i put in a 4000 rpm motir and did all the speed
test's this is why a love the otari deck you can take the audio block heads of and go up and down on size of tape
i will say i was lost for word;s at 7 1/2 the 238 sounds mind blowing it take a lot to take it down the audio gain i had to do alot of re tune as levels and eq have to be
done if you can change over a motor to make it sound good do it i work on alot of deck over the years love your video's
Loooove all the analog matérial !! Always looking the mechanic and the reels turning while listening the music and drinking a fresh beer on my sofa....
But I never heard about this deck...it’s a great discover for me. I didn’t know that Dual have made this type of machine. Thank you very much for letting me know that and for your (excellents) vidéos. Still on the channel.
Very nice thank you I own a DUAL c 846 and I love its looks and sound. I am 62 so for me the high speed is not really needed,./
Спасибо за обзор, к нам в СССР такое не попадало :( если и было у кого так понимаю в единичных экземплярах. Ностальгия прямо :)
К нам вообще много только сейчас дошло). Стоило оно годовую зарплату в СССР.
Good analog👍🏻
2020-1981 = 39 years old, made in Japan. Dual amplifiers also made in Japan. Dual speakers heard several times, back in 1975.
I have the same deck together with Dual CV1450 power amplifier since 90's. Both still work great.
@@xsc1000 very good quality audio equipment !
good prefix )
When Dual and BIC came out with their double speed decks, Nakamichi gave them a big middle finger by introducing the 680ZX, which delivered better performance than most decks, while running at half speed.
I have Nak 680ZX and Dual C846, CC1462 (successors to C844) and to my ears Dual at high speed plays better than Nak at normal speed, when comparing at normal speed Nak is noticeably better, and at half speed Nak cannot compete with Dual (or itself) at normal speed. The sound quality just isn't there when recording at half speed, maybe good enough for speech or some radio shows, but nothing more demanding,.
@anadialog Interesting video. I have a Teac C 3X deck with the double speed function. I want to try recording a tape at high speed but I have a couple of questions and I hope you can help me. 1- If I record a standard 60-minute tape at double speed, then the total duration of the tape when playing it would be 30 minutes? 2- A tape recorded at double speed can only be played on a deck that has the high-speed playback function? If I play it on a computer that does not have that function, would the playback speed be half?
Sorry for the late reply, the answer is YES to all!
I would think that the double speed would improve the SN ratio and MOL of higher frequencies of the audio material, and not necessarily the frequency response. During recording, decent decks utilize an EQ curve called "pre-emphasis" which is applied to counter the effects of self-erasure of high-frequency signals. High-frequency wave prints are so close together that they are in danger of cancelling out each other. With a higher tape speed, the prints are spaced further apart and the tape can hold a higher bandwidth before EQ is necessary. I would assume that the EQ during double speed isn't as drastic as the EQ during normal speed, and as such, the tape doesn't saturate and distort quite as easily.
Can't hear a difference here on TH-cam, but probably a Type-2 tape would reveal it, as you suggest. And the idea of offering 2x speed is brilliant. But then why did the hi-speed dubbing function in 80s and 90s twin decks not perform so well?
That is a very good question. The answer is simple. With double speed you are using a double amount of tape. In fact, on a 90min tape, you can record only 45 minutes. High-speed dubbing, is quite the opposite, it is recording the normal amount of information, a 90min tape with 90min of music, but it is recorded at a very high speed instead of the necessary time to properly magnetize the oxide, leading to a loss of information, with out counting the low quality tapes employed in the process. In other words, the signal itself is accelerated in order to speed up also the tape and make the whole process done in a few minutes instead of hours. In double speed the signal is played and recorded in real time but the amount of tape is double!
Here is my theory on high speed dubbing. 1. The tape heads used by the manufacturers weren't that great, especially the ones found in all in one component systems (like Emerson, Sounddesign, etc.), like the ones found in retail stores like Wal-Mart. The heads didn't have a good high frequency response. You double the tape speed and that exacerbates the problem. You have a rather dull sounding tape as a result. Prerecorded tapes have the same problem (dull high end) because the tape duplication machines ran them at very high speeds (way beyond double speed).
2. At double speed, with high speed dubbing, anomalies like wow and flutter (esp. wow) are worse.
3. If the cassette deck has a head azimuth error, that magnifies the problem even more.
I hope you know about playing the tape on the deck it was recorded on. Some of my older tapes will not sound right on my new tape deck.
Yes, of course. Not only, for best results Japanese formulas go with Japanese decks and EU formulas with EU decks etc etc. Clearly you don’t know me and the channel. This is the temple of tape! A sacred medium! ;-)
@anadialog for sure, for sure, amazing how tape works so well as long as you know the specifics
Most people might not know this, but one of the problems with recording anything audio and video is compression. So this is even true in analog recording, that is the bigger reason why a faster speed sounds better. You can get the frequency response out of better tape but it is still compressed because of the speed of the recording. In the modern digital recordings to much compression (smaller file size) (lower speed, or less tape used) means part of the music will be lost or mushed together making it sound unclear or digitized. This often happens or is noticeable with orchestras or choirs in harmony, if it is compressed to small it is not clear and digital noise shows up. In the analog tape world it shows up mostly in the high frequencies as distortion or it is just lost. This is also why on a LP record the music with the most dramatic sound should be on the outside tracks, due to the speed of the record, most inches per second on the outside then in the middle. 8-track tape ran at 3 3/4 ips so they did have better sound because of that but the tracking problems and tape wear was a problem.
Lp records have a constant speed from the beginning to the end...what do you mean?
@@anadialog Simple logic a larger pulley will make the other item it is driving spin faster, then a pulley of the same size or smaller. Larger gear to a smaller gear with variables the whole way through with different size gears. On a race track the inside is shorter the the outside so if you are always on the outside you have to run faster to keep up. Ariens used a friction disc system to make their walk behind machines have completely variable walking speed.
See this video here: th-cam.com/video/TcT-cdugH_I/w-d-xo.html ; from 5:46 to 6:55. Just like a merry-go-round you get the faster ride on the outside then toward the center, yet the merry-go-round is running the same speed on the drive shaft.
Lovely deck lovely sound. Couldnt tell much difference between the speed. Id imagine it would have less hiss
lizichell2 Technically, the hiss is still there, but shifted up an octave.
I could clearly hear less audible hiss in the double speed recording
The FECR tape would be a great one to try ..I have never had one and they are expensive to buy now but too bad the formulation died out so fast ,,I have read great reviews about the sound it can make..
The sound is great, I have no idea why they decided to kill it....apart from the bias issues, I think it was just too expensive considering that a good type II was just as good.
Type 1 tapes are always good . I never realy have any trouble with them , no trouble here .
I agree!
Excellent
I noticed a difference. The double speed did sound better
The difference is the level low level detail, instrumental harmonics. That is the value. So even with low level resolution of youtube it was identifiable. That makes it worth it. I have a couple of BIC dual speed decks. Unfortunately, the person that i used to have tune up the decks, who was BIC's company repair perso, passed away and i can't find anyone who can get it going agoin. If you know anyone who vcan repair high speed cassette deck. Please let me know.
When it was working properly, the sound was good enough for my friend who had a mega buck system.
TH-cam does not compress audio. I used to think so but I discovered that I was wrong. I just sent my deck for minor repairs so, no I don't have a lab to suggest. The best way is to open a thread on major taoe forums like tapeheads or also gearsluts etc.
@@anadialog It does bit-rate compress to 192 KB/s, a decent but not full Red Book rate. The 320 KB/s rate comes closer to uncompressed FLAC.
I just bought a Dual Electronics CV-40 amplifier that is supposedly less powerful than what I had before (mid 90s pioneer receiver), but it blows the socks off of the other setup and sounds much more real and visceral. Starting to think about a tape deck, so it was really cool to see a nice tape deck come out of the same brand, if a few years later. I haven't found much info on this brand. If you have any other suggestions about when or how to incorporate their stuff, I'd love to know. Thanks!