Patrick Harpur | Bernardo Kastrup: Myth, Imagination & Truth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ม.ค. 2025
- An excerpt from a 5-week discussion series with Bernardo Kastrup, with guest Patrick Harpur.
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We discussed:
Patrick's route to the Western Esoteric Tradition
Daimons, Shamans and the link between worlds
His views on anomalous phenomena (UFOs, fairies etc)
Enlightenment and the Western Tradition
Patrick Harpur attended St Catharine's College, Cambridge, to read English, and his writings have appeared in The Guardian, Fortean Times, Gnosis, Resurgence, the New Statesman and the Independent on Sunday. He is often invited to give talks in the UK, in Spain and in America; and he has taught post-graduate students at Schumacher College (Dartington).
As well as several novels, Patrick is the author of 4 non-fiction books including Daimonic Reality: A Field Guide to the Otherworld which attempted to make sense of visions and apparitions by recourse to Platonic philosophy, Jungian psychology, and the Romantic notion of imagination. He also wrote The Philosophers' Secret Fire: A History of the Imagination outlined an esoteric Western way of seeing the world which has been largely neglected. In 2010, Rider published the rather ambitiously titled A Complete Guide to the Soul, which appeared a year later in the US as The Secret Tradition of the Soul (Evolver Editions, an imprint of North Atlantic Books). The Stormy Petrel (The Squeeze Press, 2017) is a novel based on the life and work of the Danish thinker Søren Kierkegaard, whose writings have gripped Patrick for years.
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I’ve listened to this conversation for the fourth time. Since being introduced to Bernardo, there are so many things I must thank him for, but for all the insights and models he has given, the introduction to Patrick Harpur is at the top of the list.
The warmth, humour and depth of this conversation is truly wonderful.
Thank you Amir!
please would you have another one with Bernardo and Patrick. Absolutely fascinating and delightful.
thank you thank you thank you. What a privilege to see and hear these two supremely erudite, intelligent and genuine gentlemen, and to do it while sipping tea in my living room. I cannot express my delight. I am profoundly moved by these inquiries into the greater reality, and greatly hearted by them. If the gods that be ever want to decide whether humankind should survive (its own profound stupidity), I am sure that people like this, who care enough to seek truth and live meaningful lives, are what will save us. Thank you for presenting this wonderful talk. It was like music to my soul.
Bernardo, I watch your videos when I’m depressed and it helps me. It also helps me fall asleep. I will be pursuing a degree in philosophy this fall. Thanks for inspiring so many of us.
@@pachiramen4605 his voice causes me to fall asleep too. Like Alan watts.. no idea what is point is tho 😅
Beg to differ Mr. Harpur your books are fantastic. For me, they were a powerful validation of my intuition of things. So, thank you.❤
He is too humble! Did you have a favourite book?
The Soul book, what he referred to as his book of the Soul. This issue of going down into Soul is so important in a culture commited to transcendence. Or in the famous words, of one lost little girl, going,😅 " somewhere where there isn't any trouble".
.
@@ruthlewis673 Have you read anything of James Hillman?
Wonderful conversation . Patrick’s wisdom, nestled in humility, humanity and not knowing is so refreshing. 🧡thank you
This is a delightful introduction to Mr. Harpur. Thanks and gratitude to the host for facilitating a wonderful conversation between these important minds.
Great to have you with us!
I absolutely love Patrick Harper And his Desire to bring things to an experiential understanding, as opposed to a philosophical one ,because philosophizing about going to the gym is vastly different than actually going to the gym . He seems to know the state of the western mind and where its main hiccups reside.
“The map is not the territory “
In case anyone's interested in the name Amir mentions (norse myths, dragons, 1:30:00 >>): Andreas Kornevall, Swedish storyteller, independent scholar of Norse mythology, writer, and ecologist
I absolutely love the comparative mythology elements to this discussion!
I can’t believe it took me 56 years to find this guy. Finally someone who can offer a way to stop trying to make sense of this nonsense. It resonates with me now, well after having figured it out. I wishi had heard this as a young man. Philosophy departments are like prisons. Simply be as though you are listening to music, especially if you insist on thinking.
To the idea of walking backwards to move (reflect) forwards, it very much reminds me of the way to move through walls in Lucid Dreams. If you walk forward into the wall you often get stuck, but if you turn your back toward the wall so that your dreaming eyes don't see it, you often move effortlessly through.
It's as if the dreamer is not letting the dream know it knows... Which is ridiculous but perfectly true.
Beautifully put!
One of the most important conversations that I think I have ever listened to. Images coming in and out of focus for me, just a'right. Thanks all.
Amazing to hear, thanks so much 🙏🙏🙏
What a truly wonderful pairing. Thank you so much for this magical feast of knowledge, conversation, humour and humility, from two truly illuminating intellects, in the truest sense of the word.
yeah they are so great together!
I've read several of Mr Harpur's wonderful books and I'm thrilled to find him here -- THANK YOU -- I read and appreciate Mr Kastrup very much too
WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL. thanks . one of the very best conversations i have ever heard on youtube. more please. i have spent more than a decade focused on similar stuff and written a book on it, "the others within us." dispite all this study, you two have much that is new and valuable for me.. wonderful
Fantastic- one of the most interesting talks I’ve ever heard - thank you
wow what great feedback! Thank you 🙏🙏
We hope there'll be more with Patrick in the future
I will listen to this many times and there are many take-a-ways too. Trust the Process I think is key and can be interpretted in many ways in life. Whether it is going through hard times - if you're going through hell keep going, one step in front of the other. Or, as an artist, as I am. Stop trying to be orginal and let the process (technique) be the ritual that is the pathway to finding your voice. Of course, finding your voice, like the spiritual way, well there are many ways to the top of the mountain.
I really have to suppress my desire to evaluate this conversation as it feels it would kill the richness of its content. However I need to express my thanks to all of you for sharing this and making us aware. The seemingly lightfooted, while really deep and pragmatic approach of Mr.'s Harpur and Kastrup to deal with ambition in a humble fashion is examplary. Wonderfully inspirational. Thx again. ❤
A year passed between filming it and watching it, and it simply got richer with time... Thanks for your kind words 🙏
The questions and searches make me feel that the mind trained and kidnapped by the idea of a mechanical world struggles to find meaning and detach itself from the hard materialist tradition that stands as reason.
And thank you for this beautiful conversation.
Thank you 🙏
Honesty and humor, nice. I love this stuff so much, thank you fellas
thanks for your support!
Thank you for sharing this awesome conversation, I could listen to these 2 gentlemen non-stop. 🙏🏻❤️
Awesome to hear! Was there a particular part or point that you appreciated most?
❤ thank you for these amazing discussions and podcasts!!!
thanks for the appreciation! It's encouraging
I have all of Bernardo's books and a couple of Patricks so its nice to see them here together engaging in great discourse.
The young lady doing the PH'd would have got more positive feedback had Anthony Peake been involved in the dialogue as he had written extensively on the Daemon and links it to the Eternal Return. The Daemon is our higher self it's the game player the part of you trapped in the material world the eidolon is your avatar. The Daemon knows what choices your eidolon is going to make and if these are life-threatening it will try to warn you. Trust your Daemon it has been with you here before.
Just wonderful. Thanks so much for hosting this.
I see a BK interview / discussion and can’t click fast enough. When he’s paired with another I can’t wait to find out more.
My only quibble: please invest in better audio. It’s really hard on those who listen with headphones.
Pure Gold !!! What a Trip !
Beautiful! Wonderful and magical conversartion here. I love Patrick Harpur’s works and at the same time have a deep gratittude for Kastrup’s works since the beginning of my journey.
Can I ask for a second part conversation, maybe with them and Jeffrey Kripal?
I will ask!
I'm actually really excited to hear this!
Let us know what you think!
Eliana at 1:33:35 is going through the process of spiritual awakening. One can feel as if going crazy during this period so it can be very tough. The only way is through. Listen and watch carefully what is coming up and don't fight it. It's trying to dissolve your ego, you need to accept that process and let the ego go.
The more ego fights, the more suffering there will be in this process. But once it is over an incredible lightness will follow and lots of energy trapped in the ego will become available for higher intelligence to utilize.
I just finished reading Daimonic Reality and thought the part about Heroic mythology was absolutey brilliant. Mr Harpur`s work is fascinating, and I must admit that some of his concepts are very challenging. Sometimes I think that if you believe you fully understand his ideas, that means you didn`t understand them at all...
My favourite part also 🙏🙏🙏
Really enjoyed this, two great minds and some fab questions too!
I have had anomalous experiences that i cant explain. This conversation helped me understand that it can have been both real and unreal, which surprisingly makes a lot of sense.
Finally, more of you two please 👍🏻
We'll try get Patrick back later this year
Love love loved it all one of the best yet, Bernardo is a superstar of kindness humility and humanity, and Patrick gosh bless UZ all for unearthing this beautiful Britain gem... N I think ya got more of a Sauraman vibe going on... Bless the lovely young girl in the midst of her studies the , bright young man, and the lady who shared the experiences with her aunt... Fabulous bless UZ all... Arwen...¡¡¡ ❤
Life is a circular cyclical wavelike journey. Some of us had more waves than others. We are at the time jumpers.
The person at 1:32 ish: I so relate! I first felt it as a teenager I think, a "cosmic belonging", and as an adult I believe it can be the "absenceof restricted thinking and beliefs". It is the calm being that we are without the thoughts stirring.
To access this seems a bit random though but I recognize your description ❤
Wonderfully put! Thanks 🙏
Wonderful!!! love them both❤ thank for posting
So glad you enjoyed it! Great to have like-minded people around
Nature is your best teacher
On the last question, about the orbs, I recently watched an interview with Robert Bigelow, the aeronautics magnate, where he was talking about the period when he owned the notorious Skinwalker Ranch. He said he and his crew observed orbs like the ones Olga mentioned, usually in experiments related to health and the human body. Maybe worth checking out.
I don't think enough emphasis is placed on the part language plays in our understanding of the universe and ourselves. We obsess about observation and experiment as the bedrock of scientific reasoning, yet we ignore or downplay the fundamental part language plays As Nietzsche said "First thought, first metaphor"
Thank you! Patrick is so funny. My Daiminho is laughing!
Wonderful conversation, love it, thank you 🙏🏻❤️
So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment 🙏
Great session!
Thank you.
Ah great to hear Joe- thanks.
Was there a particular part or point that you found most valuable?
@@adventuresinawareness In response to your question on the use of the word 'imagination' for 'consciousness,' Patrick Harpur says 1:18:44 he prefers the word 'imagination' and comes up with, "... the way imagination distills itself out of itself ..."
Just the way he expressed his take on that felt 'alchemical' all by itself.
The chemistry between Bernardo and Patrick, the way the questions were addressed, the bits and pieces and insights here and there, gave the session that rare glow of joyful feeling.
@@Joe-kn3wt100%
@@HigoWapsico 🎉
Human imagination is our greatest tool
Pehaps It’s not all really human. We can call It Daimonic Imagination, because arise from the source of Reality, aka Soul of the World. “Everything is in the Soul” Harpur.
Wonderful discussion between two people I'd always drop everything to stop & listen to. Please nudge Patrick (if you can) to get an eBook version of Mercurius released. The print is so small in the paperback edition that I struggle to read it even with my glasses on! Thank you so much for this deeply appreciated video.
Gentlemen, thank you for sharing your wisdom. I would like to share an insight I have from listening to this discourse, since we cannot hold the whole paradox in our minds, what I would say is we are having the experience as a psychic event and it is real at that level, but yet it doesn't have to be a literal physical experience. I would propose that a lot of religious experience would be at this level of mind. Maybe this is why we can communicate with Angels. You benefit from the experience on a psychological level.
This resonates... Thank you 🙏🙏🙏
Challenge everything until it is proven to be correct
I fell in love with these 2 divine men
All (I) can say is "Shine on you crazy diamond " mate😊
Ha great!
We reside within the universal holographic consciousness and time is consciousness and it’s not linear. It’s more like a vortex.
Will replacing the word “ reality” with “experience” a better representation of what consciousness constitutes?
The answers by Bernardo and Patrick to the question about good and evil were disturbing to me. Yes, on the one hand good and evil are made up ideas, not apparently present in nature, are relative as in my good may be your evil. But, the experience of evil- for example, being indiscriminately bombed or hunted as if you are worse than no-one, just a living, feeling, fearing, hoping, targeted nothingness - is a visceral, tangible, consequential feeling with generational impacts. On the other hand, if your mental processes are tethered to the upper chambers of the ivory tower, exploring the halls of abstract thought, and you tend to the belief that all is relative, or in the ultimate goodness of what is, a benevolent universe, then the question is academic and avoids the duality of what living is- we suffer now. If, at the end of life, one believes - or one finds (as many NDE'rs purport) that suffering was for our betterment and done in love... or whatever absence of now you believe comes after, if anything, then their answer seemed to absolve Hitler or any other purveyor of evil of the sufferings they have inflicted on others. I only hope that the questioner, or anyone who hears their answers, is not wondering whether or not it is conscionable to follow the instincts of a psychopath.
You need more than Harpur and Kastrup's words to engage yourself in hitler-level evil deeds. You need a hitler-level psychopath soul. On the other hand, if you'd have a hitler-level psychopath soul, what good could prevent you from doing the harm that you're meant to do?...
I suggest you look into the ancient Irish philosophy WYDER and Ivan Wentz Celtic, very faith
re the question towards the end "what is the trickster's weakness?" how does/n't the trickster (archetype) experience suffering from joy or joy from suffering? Is the trickster ever attached (to any outcome). I have an image of the trickster with a devilish grin. Bugs Bunny exudes exuberance. The Cheshire Cat smirks from the boughs. Is the trickster caught up in mere self-amusement? Is it entirely misguided to speak of lack of compassion-- is such talk mere heroic ambition to resist what is (possible)?
Things are throughout all of the sacred texts as they call them, including the paintings
I suggest you look into the Scythians
Thanks a lot for sharing
Thanks for appreciating! Was there anything in particular you resonated with?
Die Arbeit die Bernardo in den letzten Jahren geleistet hat, als auch seine kognitiven Fähigkeiten sind unglaublich und lassen einen Vergleich mit Geothe legitim erscheinen.
Ich bin ihm sehr dankbar.
Der andere Herr war mir bislang unbekannt, auffällig aber, wie organisch die Konversation trotz der verschiedenen Hintergründe floss, nicht zuletzt durch ihre intelligente und sensible Art, das Gespräch zu unterstützen. Mein Hintergrund ist stark durch z.B. Eckhart Tolle geprägt, so dass es leicht fällt, sich eine ähnliche Konversation mit BK und ET vorzustellen. Nicht dass dies notwendig wäre, aber es gibt einem spirituellen Menschen eine noch stärkere Sicherheit, dass das persönlich Empfundene auch mit einem Weltbild korreliert, wie BK es evidenzbasiert darzulegen vermag.
I hope the google translater will work well. Thanks for your work🙏
One’s life is a circular, cyclical, wavelike journey
Human imagination is a gift from the universal photographic conscience which enjoys novelty
I shed a tear along with the young vibrant woman pursuing her Phd, thank you, may we all get ‘’where’’ we’re suppose to go.☮️
Thanks for the encouragement and understanding 🙏
@@adventuresinawareness ☯
"Against my will", lol, i was arrested at the age of 6 (60 yrs ago), and it all went downhill from there whilst i ascended. there is a paradise in knowing you can love others, living is heavenly pain.
Sacred geometry and the platonic shapes and the frequencies of the universe, which is a holographic consciousness we reside within
Superb
Spiritual being having a physical experience
this is the BOMB.......
Jerry Marzinsky! Check out his work on demons in schizophrenics.
I am no thing and everything nowhere and everywhere I/we are one with all
Surfing razors, edge of The Golden thread is not for the faint of heart
Time stamps would have been helpful.
That is The Golden thread
Extension of the soul is what you are is
interesting talk thanks for this, i wonder if patrick or bernard has heard of the RUNA-puma from eduardo kohns book how forests think, and what sense they can make of itas a point of view of reality and belief or in fact a truth
Not sure - hopefully we'll get them back, and you could join one of the live calls and maybe ask this yourself!
Time is consciousness
Carl and his archetypes was very similar to John O’Donoghue’s work
Absolutely we are the shamans
Everything is consciousness
1:02:00
Your only dreaming, no reality in it.If you don't have body,you fully spirit you know what reality about.
We are all scholars
Materialism and mechanism is what destroyed the spiritual flow of The Golden Thread! but it since you can’t destroy energy, you can only alter it. It’s reforming itself.
The world is calling you to a 'great' adventure not a 'safe' one.
Stupidity always expresses itself with remarkable clarity.
In beginning was the logos.
Sonoluminous holofield, theologos.
Self referential noise. Chaos, darkness on the face of the waters.
Intention as an organizing principle. Emergent law.
Value as a goal. Possibility landscape populated by choice.
Love as the highest goal. Harmonizing of value.
Freewill as the redistribution of choice.
Grace and mercy as the redistribution of Ethos, Pathos, and Mythos.
Redemption as the redistribution of debt.
Justice as the balancing of the light and the dark.
The intentional field of implicate order echoes into the fractal scaling of event horizons.
Strangely, this is probably some form of an equation.
Hologram; n dimensions of information in n minus one dimensions.
Fractal; scalable pattern.
Holofractal; the scaling of event horizons.
Exponentiation of the imaginary number in n plus one dimensions.
The strange thing, it doesn't matter who they are, it doesn't matter who's side their on, everyone is pushing a narrative.
You can pretend to know me, that doesn't make you my friend.
Love is a creation in the imagination of living light.
'During my mystic phase... I was a Zen buddist for a fortnight' hehe
Is it so hard to learn how to pronounce Greek diphthongs? 😭
❤❤❤❤
Re-create the future from the past in the illusion of the present
In Norway we have " huldra", " småfolket / the little people, nissen / fjøsnissen, nøkken . This is what I grew up with - and from the old days we have " nornene " and Volvene - mostry female forces actualy.
"Imagination" and "reality" are both experienced trough images ...
I love this. Perhaps I have no right to chime in on the subject itself, but is it a question of Literal versus Metaphoric reality or Literal versus Metaphoric perception? In other words, the question of whether the world itself is mind or matter can only end in a metaphoric answer, otherwise our perception becomes too literal and dogmatic, too conclusive, and conclusions put an end to learning. The question might be phrased like this, whether or not the world itself is imagination at heart or material at heart is a separate question from whether we can perceive knowledge of the world metaphorically, rather than land on a final dogma and perceive things Literally. So do we see the sun rise metaphorically? No, that's not knowledge, that's a direct relationship with the world unfolding as a mind/matter mystery that will be never find conclusion. From this angle, metaphor refers only to our relationship to thought, knowledge, and imagination itself. Not to the world itself. It is a metaphoric relationship to our relationship to the world, not to the world itself. The two appear to be asking very different questions -- both questions merely pivot on the same words (literal and metpahor), but they are using the words in different contexts.
I'm no authority myself, but I think Bernardo would say that matter is a symbol for mind, so matter is always metaphorical, but what it symbolises interacts, and therefor can be measured and mapped - hope that makes some kind of sense! If not, other videos on the channel might help
@@adventuresinawareness What I'm saying is different from Bernardo. By trying to determine the ultimate nature of reality he's driving towards a positive conclusion, which is a form of Literalism in itself.
Thanks for your response. But I'd like to clarify what I'm wondering about. At one point in the conversation, they were debating whether the nature of reality itself was mind (essentially metaphoric in nature) or material (essentially Literal in nature). I think there's a different question they could ask. We can't conclude anything about the nature of a bottomless mystery such as reality itself without becoming literal in our certainty. Instead of asking whether reality is literal or metaphoric (it's inconclusive, unknowable), the question is whether perception of reality is metaphoric or literal. If it's literal then we've stopped learning.
Rudolph’s Steiner, Labsky
As the only species that can survive only with technology, we are at the alien life form
Grand positive and negative feedback groups
💌
Huxley, the battle for the minds of men
Dearest seeker
WhispersPresence
In stillness, you’ll know
Which quests to say yes to
Which truths to attest to
And which trials-
Even though some are certain to best you-
You must not forego
If, indeed, you are a seeker
Seeking treasure
Of immeasurable worth
The Deep Magic
Well hidden
Access forbidden
Except through the rhythms
Of Flow
from Flow’s Manifesto
That should be "her", soul.🙃🙏💕
Have been taught to fear their death, despite being born to die
Reside in an internal universe
Sanskrit is not a religious philosophy. It’s an explanation how the Elohim and how they use human minds as if he interface to their machines
With respect to the idea of literal v metaphorical, isn’t it true that there are two kinds of truth: 1) shared truth and 2) personal truth? I suggest we cannot assume that we know enough about the universe to assume we know everything. What is personal or subjective truth for many at present may, with more time, research and experience, become shared, or generally acknowledged truth in the future. There may, in fact, be actual extraterrestrial beings visiting our planet *as well as* many earth people having personal experiences that arise from the collective unconscious.