Would a Jewish bakery be expected to make a cake for a Nazi/skinhead wedding? I think not. This whole issue is so galactically stupid. Just leave people alone already, with their freedom to determine who they do or don't give their time, effort, and talents to. It's common sense (which isn't so common anymore, unfortunately). My God, what has this country come to?...
Dann Dobson It'll be interesting to see just what the Supreme Court will be saying regarding "the law" when it hears the Lakewood/Phillips case. Hopefully, the determination will be made that you can't force people to render services in violation of their religious convictions. It's sad how we've lost sight of common sense in this country.
+EMS SCOTUS issued a decision 50 years ago affirming a lower court's decision against a restaurant owner who refused to serve black people in violation of the law even though he claimed it violated his Baptist religious beliefs against the integration of the races. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newman_v._Piggie_Park_Enterprises,_Inc. SCOTUS also declined to hear the same case (but involving a New Mexican wedding photographer) and let the ruling of New Mexico's Supreme Court against the photographer stand back in 2014. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-wont-review-new-mexico-gay-commitment-ceremony-photo-case/2014/04/07/f9246cb2-bc3a-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html?.533809874567
The state knows that homosexuality is against the principles of many religions which people have the right to freely practice.The couple knowing this could have respected the baker's religion and rights and simply looked for another baker who wouldn't mind baking their cake but no. They've essentially put him in danger, He states he is now receiving a lot of death threats simply because he is practicing and being faithful to his religious beliefs and now the many heterosexual couples who could have gotten wedding cakes from his business as there is no issue with that with his religion can't. Seriously, the guy owns his skills and his craft he shouldn't be forced to apply his skill in a manner contrary to his religious beliefs
You're right. He can take (customized wedding) cakes off his corporation's menu at any time and make them for no one. But if you think he has the freedom to refuse to serve customers based on race, color, religion or sexual orientation, you're not very familiar with civil rights legislation and anti-discrimination laws.
+L L Wow, you love to commit false witness. Hope you're willing to face the consequences. The gay couple only went their because their event planner recommended it. This is from the interrogatory given by the gay couple in connection with this case (top of p. 183 of Joint Appendix submitted to the US Supreme Court): Interrogatory No. 6: State when and under what circumstances you *first* became aware of Masterpiece Cakeshop, Inc. Response to Interrogatory No. 6: We selected the restaurant 240 Union for our wedding reception. Their event planner, Sheri Casey, told us they usually suggested people having receptions there use Masterpiece Cakeshop for their cakes. www.aclu.org/legal-document/craig-and-mullins-v-masterpiece-cakeshop-joint-appendix Oh, and since you have access to this Joint Appendix, you might want to take a look at the affidavit provided by Jack Phillips (par. 34 on the bottom of p. 160). He states: "I design and create the majority of wedding cakes sold by Masterpiece Cakeshop, Inc." So - it's possible that Mr. Phillips could have resolved this whole issue by simply assigning the task of making the couple's wedding cake to his employees, 6 of whom he fired when the corporation elected to stop selling wedding cakes. See: www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/26/gay-couple-devout-baker-take-cake-fight-high-court/875305001/
Linda Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it. Hebrews 13:2 : All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. John 6:37 You are filled with hate and YOU don't know God, So stop trying to use GOD as your reason to hate
@daniel Davis: _You are filled with hate and YOU don't know God, So stop trying to use GOD as your reason to hate_ What a fat cup of Hate™ you must have drank! Only a full lifetime of blaming everyone else for your personal flaws can usually generate that. God's hate for that sort of hypocrisy is an infinitely greater cup.
John Sterling IB By serving humanity I assume you mean pro creation. Some people choose not to have children and that is their choice. Other than that there is adoption, foster parenting, surrogacy, artificial insemination. When someone chooses to get married they are not thinking about how said marriage will serve humanity, they are thinking about how much they love that person. Gay marriage really will not do any harm at all to society. The over whelming majority of people are heterosexual anyway so why does it matter? The correct answer is that it doesn’t matter!
He didn’t refuse to serve them a cake, he refused to make it the way they asked. He didn’t want to put to males on the cake but he was willing to make the cake... baking cakes to him is an art... you can’t go to a painter and demand something painted that is offensive to the painter!!! It’s not the same thing as refusing to service blacks, this man has a choice in what cakes he wants to make and sell! I hope the Supreme Court will rule in his favor
The design of the cake was never discussed, the moment he was told it was for their wedding reception, he told them he doesn't make wedding cakes for same-sex weddings, and that was that.
sciencetrumpsfaith yes there we go there’s the snowflake in ya! Jesus was very hood at exposing snowflakes! How is that statement you quoted false? LOL
These damn demons are not going to shove their filth down our throats!..we're not going to stand for it anymore; .Christian stand up for what's right in Jesus name!.. God will restore whatever you lost.. God bless this family and help him endure till the end! If God is for us who can be against us??.
***** As Christians gay people are more than welcome into church for service & fellowship they are respected but the Church draws the line with gay marriages that includes Christian businesses as it goes against our beliefs but we don't go killing gays, chopping their heads off, hanging them off buildings like Musilms do today in 2017 especially overseas yet the gay community act so tough against Christians ummm. Funny why don't gays fight for justice against murder against gay people etc & marriages in Mosques & other religions....
***** what part of this bussiness the owner being a Christian don't you understand??.. many people in that community already knew he doesn't carter for gay marriages.
Jack remembered that king NEBUCHADNEZZAR tried to force the three young Hebrews to bow down to worship his golden statue. But they refused to compromise and accepted death. I knew after the legalization of same sex marriage that will affected Christians because marriage is an institution of God not men and it is only between a man and a woman. Same sex marriage is an unacceptable human relationship. Leviticus 18:22 Leveticus 20:13
One man and one woman no matter what color is biblical. I recall the day I went into a dressmakers shop and the gay owner make it clear he was not making dresses for anyone other than gay people. I simply moved on respecting his decision to what he felt comfortable with. Dressmaker on every corner just like a cake maker. People cause drama because that is what they want to do. They do not live in peace. They chose to be nasty and hen peck. Isn't it funny how those who demand to be tolerated are unwilling to tolerate?
I honestly doubt that you went to a dress maker and they denied you for being straight. Sounds like horse shit. But if it did happen you could have sued. Just cus your dumbass accepted being discriminated doesn't make it right! As for your line about tolerance it applies to Christians. Look at how Jack plays victim.
Religion tends to diminish empathy for those outside one's own tribe. It is the duty of American law to ease the differences between groups, not make them worse.
He didn't refuse them, he didn't refuse to serve them. He just refused to make a gay marriage cake. Maybe he should just have made a rubbish cake. I think I'll go into Jewish and Muslim shops and demand a bacon sandwich......
So a Muslim print shop owner has to serve a customer wanting to print a non offensive cartoon/picture of the prophet Mohammed even though his belief forbids it?
I respect your religious convictions. They might not be mine, but they're yours. I hope you have a beautiful year. You have my respect and I'm gay. God bless you.
Wow. I didn't realize the government is putting a gun to this man's head and forced him to open up a corporation AND have said corporation offer to the public customized cakes. What bastards!
He opened the shop long before gay marriage was made legal. It's not like he opened knowing he'd be asked to make a cake that goes against his religious beliefs.
Oh, I live in one of the top Destination Wedding cities in the country (and, indeed, in the world). Weddings are BIG BUSINESS here, and we hold several wedding expos around town throughout the year. After Obergefell, we started seeing many more same-sex couples attending said expos, though with trepidation. If they saw a vendor they liked, they would invariably ask the question, "Do you cater to same-sex weddings?" Almost without exception, they were answered, "No, we do weddings, period." In other words, there is no distinction. We service whomever can pay for our services, and we're happy to do so. In short, discrimination, as displayed by Mr. Phillips, is bad for business.
What I can never understand is that growing up I remember everywhere I went in stores and restaurants there were signs that stated not word for word but something in the line of "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" so I could never understand why now all these years later we are having these types of arguments about something a simple as a baker not wanting to make a cake for a same sex wedding....but yet when a bakery is asked to make a cake for a pro blue loves matter customer and is turned away they are cheered, when a restaurant literally refused to serve a group of police officers simply because they were police officers they cheered, the lost could go on and on yet because it's for a LGBTQ'S person they protest and try to destroy that person and his livelihood because they believe that government is there to force people to do their bidding, yet you only see them doing this to Christians you never see them do this to any Muslim bakers and there has been Muslim baker's that have said no to making a cake for a same sex wedding. The whole point of being in a free country under capitalism is that we have the ability of free choice, why would you want to have a person who doesn't want to make something or participate in something be the person you want to hire to do the job, we have a country filled with thousands of people that do the same thing that could easily fill you needs and would be pleased to take your money so why go through all of this trouble to force someone into doing something that goes against what they personally believes in...it's their religious beliefs not decriminalization based on race that was born out of hatred. By having the government make someone go against their religious beliefs it isn't going to change the way people see this issue and make this issue go away it is only going to make it worst because it then becomes the other person who is being targeted and prosecuted against leaving behind and even wider divide between the two groups that will never be able to come together and end up only getting worst over time.
Have you caught the news in Baltimore about the police beating and stealing from people. selling drugs, and being criminals? Liking or disliking someone isn't a crime. Refusing to follow the law so you can punish someone you don't like is a different story. This whole outrage because you aren't allowed to mistreat someone you don't like because you think other people get to do it is sick. How did Christians become the allies of neonazis and hate? Not what I was told about Jesus. Now they vote primarily for liars and cheats who are ripping away resources so that the rich profit and regular people die. How did that become Christian?
Sum Mors~ You are so wrong about the US being a 'secular' nation or have you forgotten that it says 'In God We Trust'. I am a Californian and just wanted to call you out on ignorance.
Sum More~ Wrong again. The truth behind separation of Church and State was to keep the State/government from interfering in the Church. And not the other way around.
Sum Mors~ And like I said initially; God's law is always above our own. You may not a believer, but there are plenty in this great country that are. You will find out when you die how wrong you've been.
Sum Mors~ You already know the answer to that question. It's Christendom. The US was founded on it. It's not buddhism, it's not Islam. Come on you're killin me smalls!
GiMarie Amen!!! Amen!!! Amen!!! Bless the name of Jesus Christ!!! Soon coming "King" every eye shall behold Him and every knee shall bow, and confess to Holy God!!! Amen!!! Amen!!!
Take heart Jack Matthew 5 vs 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Separation of Church and State, I recollect that Court Hearing being that a Business had the right to Religious Morality and Religious substrate, that the State has no right to interfere in Private Religious Matters.
The right to ones religion and the free exercise there of is constitutional right. Not all cake shops are owned and operated by religious people, in fact most are not. David Mullins and Charlie Craig could have easily had countless other bakeries make them a cake and they know that. They could have shown the same respect to the baker they themselves are demanding from him, which is the right to be free. David Mullins and Charlie Craig are free to marry or not, and the baker is free to bake a cake for not. What is clear is David Mullins and Charlie Craig are trying to force the baker to give up his freedom and green light their life stile and are throwing a hissy fit about the difficulty in doing so. Look at it this way. Today the State is trying to take the freedom of the baker away, tomorrow the state maybe trying to take a freedom of yours away. You cant cry foul then if you cant cry foul now.
CozmoTube yeah kinda like go down the street to the colored business because you’re not welcome here. Don’t you miss the good old days of government endorsed bigotry on a large scale?
Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." This applies to the guy trying to buy a cake. Not the baker who on his own free will chose to discriminate making one sin greater than another and judging someone else. This playing victim when you are the one who imposed his control on another person like this baker did is disgusting and radical extremism.
Yeah? Where? And hopefully the victims of their discrimination will sue them as well if it's even true. Unless you just want to discriminate because you think others do so it's OK?
A person in business for them self can work for whoever they want. All he has to say is that he's too backed up with work and can't schedule them. I work for whoever I want in my business and could care less what the government or anyone else says
Gen 1:26,27 We as Christians truly believe in the beginning God created man/women in His image. He blessed Adam/Eve told them to be fruitful and multiply replenish the earth and subdue it. No disrespect to anyone who believes different. You can't get true believers to denounce Christ. If we say it's ok for same sex marriage it would be a slap in our face against the God we serve. We want God to be pleased w/us. Showing Him honor even in our flaws. We as Christians have many scriptures in our defence. Lev18:22, Rom1:24:32 many more. I'm sure people who feel our religious freedoms is a made up book,but and our liberties don't matter. I beg to differ. The lawyers are on the battlefield using legal terminology for our first amendment, religious freedom defense. People civil liberties are next. Satan is such a maliplitive deceiver. I and others are praying continue fighting the good fight of faith no matter what comes up against us. God bless Sis Verleana
We all know that any kind of prejudice within a company can be suicidal, but businesses should be able to reserve the right to refuse services without justifying the reason. It's one thing having restrictions on sales and service, but no business should be forced to make a sale or provide services against their will. Many federal and local laws are like taking pharmaceutical medications, you get something extra you didn't bargain for.
Im not Gay not a woman or am i transgender. I am a man i hope i can say that because i think they are trying to change up that to. Hey if he didnt want to make that cake he has a right to do so. Thats his right as a owner of a business.
Hi my name is makenna I don’t know if jack will ever see this but I do know that I am a Pentecostal Christian and we shouldn’t have to be told that we have to defy our religion because we don’t believe in this. god said that man and woman should love not man and man should love I think what jack did is very brave and anyone would be lucky to know him
First, it was still recognized that art is the same as speech when it celebrates or denigrates any recognized belief or behavior. Just as media outlets can put a disclaimer on any speaker making comment (you know, "the opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the views of the network"), such a disclaimer could be demanded be placed on any artistic effort. From now on, any baker who disagrees with the message they are being requested to create art for can place on the cake a disclaimer, and it can be as big and prolific as any other writing on the art. Artistic expression has only one arbiter when it comes to sale. So, as long as it is made clear any request to deviate from any standard product they produce will require expressive and artistic effort, and therefore the value can be uniquely assigned. When the next gay couple looking to get force a known Christian into making their cake, they can place the disclaimer and charge ANY price they want. $135,000 would be a good low number for consideration, since that seems to be the going rate for not "doing the right thing" and refusing.
What if he denied baking a cake for African Americans? Would that be ok? Businesses do not have a right to discriminate. Nobody is forcing them to bake cakes. Baking cakes is not an expression of free speech or religion. It is a commercial business. You pay and you get a service, without discrimination. Period.
When you own a car, it doesn't matter how you got it, it's yours. Whether you assembled it yourself piece-by-piece, or inherited it from your parents or bought it from a car lot, it doesn't matter how you acquired it...it's yours, you own it. Bigotry is the same way. Whether you formed it yourself, got it from your parents or bought it from a religious "car lot", it's yours now. You own it, so own up to it.
No. He wasn't refusing gays. He had served gays many times. The idea is he was refusing to be compelled by the government to create a cake that represented something he did not believe in. This is the same exact thing that happens when Phillips says "No, I'm not making a Nazi cake. No, I'm not making an ISIS cake. No, I'm not making a Halloween cake. No, I'm not making a Rainbow cake. No, I'm not making a porn cake." Do you believe Phillips has the right to refuse to bake a cake in all the other situations represented? If your answer is no, then you have failed to grasp the unparalleled protections the American Constitution provides its citizens in freedom of thought, freedom of conscience and the idea the government can NEVER compel someone to support an IDEA or BELIEF. If your answer is yes, then you've grasped the key issue, this is not about discrimination because he didn't discriminate. This is about whether the government can COMPEL an artist to use his artistic expression to create something (such as a Halloween cake or same sex couple cake) that supports something that goes against what he believes. Phillips has even stated "I don't make any anti-American cakes". Do you have a problem with that?? (To answer your original question, a baker can not refuse a Christian BECAUSE he is Christian but they CAN refuse to bake a cake with a bible verse or religious symbol. And yes this has happened. AND we didn't sue. Because we respect your Constitutional Rights! So respect ours!)
The answer is YES. However, what's the difference between a heterosexual wedding cake and a same sex couple cake. IF I PUT 2 IDENTICAL CAKES SIDE BY SIDE (ONE FOR A STRAIGHT WEDDING AND ONE FOR A GAY WEDDING), *COULD YOU, ALWAYS, WITH 100% ACCURACY, PICK WHICH CAKE IS FOR THE GAY WEDDING?* If the baker wouldn't make a custom Halloween-themed cake (or a porn cake or a Nazi cake or a rainbow cake) for any other customer, he most certainly wouldn't have to do it for a gay customer. PS: You wrote "To answer your original question, a baker can not refuse a Christian BECAUSE he is Christian but they CAN refuse to bake a cake with a bible verse or religious symbol. And yes this has happened. . AND we didn't sue " If you're referring to the case of Azucar Bakery in Denver, CO, the customer *MOST CERTAINLY DID FILE A COMPLAINT WITH COLORADO'S CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION.* The customer, William Jack *who apparently knows Jack Phillips*, went to the baker and asked for two custom cake in the shape of a bible with the words. For one cake, he wanted the one side to read: "God hates sin. Psalm 45.7" and on the other side "Homosexuality is a detestable sin Leviticus 18.2". Azucar refused because it has a policy of not writing derogatory messages on any cake for any customer. William Jack filed a complaint claiming Azucar discriminated against him because he was a Christian. Colorado's CRC investigated to see if this as true and dismissed the case, after such investigation, because it didn't find probably cause that the refusal of service was due to the customer's religion. Some facts that it took into account in making the decision, including (i) THE FACT THAT THE BAKER HAD A POLICY OF NOT WRITING DEROGATORY MESSAGES ON ANY CAKE FOR ANY CUSTOMER, were (ii) THE OWNER OF THE BAKERY WAS CATHOLIC AND HAD SEVERAL EMPLOYEES WHO WERE CHRISTIAN and (iii) THE BAKERY OFFERED TO MAKE THE CUSTOMER BIBLE CAKES (WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT HAD MADE FOR OTHER CUSTOMERS - JUST NOT WITH THOSE WORDS ON THEM) AND OFFERED TO GIVE THE CUSTOMER A PIPING BAG SO HE COULD WRITE WHATEVER HE WANTED ON THE CAKE WHEN IT BECAME HIS POSSESSION AFTER PURCHASE." Here's a link to the decision, in case you care to educate yourself: media.thedenverchannel.com/document/2015/04/23/Jack_Williams_V_Azucar_Bakery_17228465_ver1.0.pdf
+Darla This gay couple never visited this bakery after being denied service 5 years ago. What are you talking about? All they did was let Colorado know that a law had been broken. A Christian friend of this baker, Jack Phillips, went around to 3 bakeries in the Denver area asking for cakes that read "Homosexuality is a detestable sin" and when his requests were not honored (as the bakeries explained that they wouldn't write such messages on a cake for any customer), he complained to Colorado's Civil Rights Commission and claimed he was being discriminated against because he was a Christian.
Wow....whats more hateful? Declining to make a cake because of religious convictions, or flipping off that baker and cursing at him? Glad to get the other side of the story.....i really feel for this guy and all the bullying he's had to endure from both the public and the Colorado government.
"How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite" Luke 6:42, or "Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew 19:21
This issue does not just concern this man and homosexuals. It concerns all of society all across America! If we allow this man to discriminate, then we have to allow EVERYONE who owns a business to discriminate against anyone they want to! And if we allow that, it's going to open up the flood gates to the point where ANY business can deny service to ANYONE for ANY REASON! And this includes not just bakeries and small businesses, but banks, realtors, department stores, attorneys and even schools, police departments, doctors and hospitals! This cannot be allowed to happen, because it will ultimately put ALL OF US in serious danger!
If the bakers were black, then the government just decided (and you agree) that some black people have to do the bidding of some white people, and are punished it they don't. There is a name for that. So, what makes this case different? Only that the bakers are WHITE. Make no mistake, this isn't exemplary of a gay/straight conflict, this is the systematic bashing of white people, and you better wake up to it.
artoru vidal2 So private businesses should be exempt from the law for any reason they like? Well, then they might as well shoot any gay people who walk into their store, say they did it because god told them to and get away with murder right? That’s what you are saying, it’s basically their business so their choice
Rebecca Brown I didn't say anything about killing I was talking about the right to refuses services to people . This country is dying because of people like you Glad that i left the shithole they call America long time ago and i am a brown guy
This is actually a HUGE ruling. This story shines the light on how Liberals think. That you have to accept them or you are going to be sorry. The Supreme Court said that the Colorado Court acted hostile towards the baker. The Colorado Court acted with a bias towards the baker (hard to comprehend the Colorado Court had to be reprimanded like this). The gay couple could have been adult and realistic about it and just gone to another baker, BUT NO!!! They had to act hostile and sue the baker, and all the way to the Supreme Court... Such a vindictive act. The gay couple was so offended that they were going to make this simple baker "pay" for not accepting them for being gay that they decided to punish the baker for essentially having his own counter beliefs. This gay couple didn't care if the baker was offended. The Supreme Court stated that the gay couple needs to be tolerant of the bakers views and opinions and his religious beliefs as well. That tolerance is a two way street, Kapish??!!! The gay couple expected and demanded their opinions and beliefs to be accepted, respected, and tolerated yet they would not accept, respect, and tolerate the bakers religious beliefs. This is why people can't and don't want to get along with those with such extreme beliefs and behavior. Everyone needs to tolerate others even if the other person is a jerk, nasty, or wrong. True adults don't act so poorly which shows you, those that do, are not adult regardless of their age.
The government is not forcing religious bigots to violate their religion, it is only requiring compliance with anti-discrimination laws. A religion cannot arbitrarily declare that its tenets demand that its members be allowed to violate civil laws.There is nothing in Christianity that requires bakers to discriminate against their gay customers, the religion only prohibits members from engaging in gay sex themselves. Otherwise Christians could claim that their faith prohibits them from selling to anyone who commits any sin.
Cheer up!!! my man, this is the meaning of being christian, this is why ain't easy being christian. This is just a test and Jesus is walkin beside you on this tortuous path.
There is no religious teaching that requires Christians to discriminate against gay people. There are two sentences in the bible that condemn sex acts between males, but the baker is not being asked to have sex with a man, only sell a wedding cake. he ought to read the many verses in the bible having to do with brotherhood, tolerance, non-judgmental acceptance, love and goodwill before he focuses on an excuse to show contempt for other people's marriages as part of a a wider ideological war against gay rights.
Homosexuals have rights and so does the baker who refused to create a cake with a homosexual theme on religious grounds. The baker is out of pocket for lawyer fees and years of court battle which took a toll on him and his family so the homosexual couple still got a form of win by costing the baker a large sum of money along with death threats and other verbal abuse. What they did not get was a payday which I suspect their visit to this particular baker was with for knowledge of his stand on homosexuality due to his religion.
Kristen Waggoner you are so confused about the First Amendment. It is freedom of religion, it is not freedom to discriminate. You cannot impose your religious beliefs on others and violate their freedom. You are free to worship as you wish, you cannot force blacks to the back of the bus or stop women from voting and you cannot deny services to a person based on their race, gender, age or sexual orientation. Hello, is it really that difficult to understand?
+Gary DeMaria You're missing the point entirely. He did not impose his beliefs on the gay couple. He did not force the couple to do anything. He refused to be apart of something he did not believe in. They sought him out. They imposed their beliefs on him. They forced *him* to "the back of the bus" so to speak. You seem to imply the cakeshop owner took action to stop their wedding or contact the couple and demand he be apart of their wedding but refuse to make the cake they chose. This logic would never fly in the opposite direction.
+NegativePositivePrimitive I do understand your point. And there are situations where that does apply. Here's the difference. When you have a public business, discrimination laws say that you cannot pick and choose which customers you service and which ones you do not based on sex, gender, race, religion and sexual orientation. So, the distinguishing point is that the cake maker's business is public and they may not discriminate. They may not choose to service some and not service others. Replace "gay" with "black" and it may seem more obvious. If you belong to the KKK, you cannot refuse to bake a cake for a black person. An appropriate option would have been that a different employee make the cake. Just like with Kim Davis, she could have allowed another clerk to process the marriage certificate, but she refused to allow them to do it. As long as the company provides the service, it doesn't matter which individual is involved. If there are no willing employees, they are out of luck, someone must do it.
Gary DeMaria It's different than Kim Davis, because Davis was a government employee. Cakeshop owner doesn't agree on a religious POV in gay marriage. So people are saying he should forget about his personal religious convictions and go against what he believes is right. That's pretty unfair. That's forcing someone to do something they believe is wrong. That is like forcing a gay bakery to make a wedding cake that said "Gay marriage is wrong". He is the owner, and he believes its by moral standard that he can't be apart of homosexuality. He didn't try to stop the wedding or protest on the streets. Sincerely, that was a pretty lousy move. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean you have to sue them over it.
+NegativePositivePrimitive, yes, that is the cornerstone of the issue: religious 'freedom' versus individual rights. In the USA, the laws prohibit discrimination, even in the case of religious convictions by the government as well as public and private companies and even individuals. This is the law, we can discuss whether we think its right or wrong, but the reason they can sue, is because they violated this law. I do believe the law is correct. Think about all the different religions and their particular beliefs, and even all the contradictions within those religions. For example, my Methodist Church has a gay minister. Should we go to court to debate which religious beliefs is 'correct' or do we accept all interpretations? If we accept them all, then we are accepting the Westborough Baptist Church and the KKK, we also have to accept Muslim's beliefs and Budha's cast system. The only logical solution is to keep church and state separate and say that if you choose to do business, you cannot discriminate. If you need to discriminate, they you need to find a new business. This is the law and it makes sense to me for these reasons. Regarding your point that the cake baker did not try to stop the wedding. I covered this by saying he cannot deny service as that is discrimination; but I wanted to add, why does baking a cake even constitute accepting gay marriage? It is not as though he were performing the ceremony himself. He is simply providing dessert. This point has nothing to do with the law or discrimination, I'm just making the observation that baking a cake does not condone the event the cake is used for, the cake baker is making a statement, just as the gay couple is by suing. This case will go down in the history books just like the first blacks who ate at the white-only counter so many years ago. In 40 years, people will look back and wonder how people could be full of such bigotry just as we look at the whites who dragged the blacks away from the restaurant.
Something missed on this case....Colorado did not recognize same sex marriage on the day these two gays walked into that shop and demanded a specific cake for their gay marriage.
Did anyone see his cakes? if they are very considered a piece of art he may not be able to fulfill it because he needs to be inspired to create it. If they are regular wedding cakes I'll say it's discrimination.
this isn't about speech freedom....it isn't about same sex weddings....it is about forced servitude and the gay community trying to manipulate the law and the justice system into having the right to force someone not only to work, but to work for them supporting the gay agenda....forced servitude is slavery....every american has the right to work and use their trade and each of us also has a right to refuse to work for any person and for any reason....no one has the right to service from any business for any reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The US Supreme Court rejected your slavery argument with respect to these anti-discrimination laws back in 1964. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel,_Inc._v._United_States
Committing a sin to tell other people they are sinners, guess what? We are all sinners where does it stop? When Jesus comes back. Bake the cake, send the flowers put a smile on your christian faith you have a lot to be thankful for.
This was done to shut a small Christian business and spread another "mean homophobic Christians" story around the media. Couple must new that based on his religious beliefs he wouldn't and couldn't bake that freaking cake, I assume that none of same sex couples ever ordered and got the "gay" wedding cake from Jack's cakeshop! What makes this couple believed that it's going to be different in their case! This isn't just about a cake, it's about principle of a honorable Christian man who holds tight to his stands!
People have the right to follow their religious convictions. Businesses however do not, if you are part of a business then you must put your personal convictions to one side otherwise your business will fail.
He does have a right to refuse custom however the shop is not advertised as a Christian Bakers it’s his personal view he’s taking to work. If you’re beliefs are so strong open up a bible shop.
Individual discrimination unfortunately is part of freedom as long as they don't work for a government service. Government force however noble the cause may become the tyranny of force not freedom.
Nothing to do with a cake, the message is that man was discriminating these gay guys, public place call for public service if he wants to do art, well open an art shop
This guy claims to be a Christian. So, if this guy is to make cakes for gay weddings, won't that tarnish his name/business? That is how I think our government will eventually assume a position like "a god". Which still doesn't make sense. For this reason, I like whatever I read in The Bible. It's straight (no pun intended) forward, and leaves little to be examined further. Yet, it's people who want to pick at this and that, and make legal issues out of everything. I'm thinking there's a reason that The Bible continues is the world's best selling book. It really tends to separate the "right" from the "wrong".
Sad that he can't just do what he loves to do -- be a baker. The men should've just found another baker. Instead of destroying this man's livelihood. What businesses are they in? Bet they wouldn't bend over backwards serving Christians now would they? Hypocritical.
If you can force a baker to make a cake in a certain way or expressing beliefs not his, against his will, then you should be able to demand that Tom Cruise act in the your low budget sci-fi with a script he doesn't like... and for scale wages!
here is a solution... the bakery doesn't make wedding cakes for sale... but, they can make them as gifts to whom they want... and receive charity for it... would that work? xD cheers!
Perhaps you have a point. As this gay couple didn't sue, they haven't made a penny. All they did was report a crime/violation of the law to Colorado's authorities. If this gay couple did sue (as the gay customer of a Washington florist did), they may be able to get reimbursed for the gas money that they wasted (in the florist case, it was around $8.00) -- and, depending on Colorado's law, reimbursement of their attorneys fees. However, this baker has gone crowdfunding and he's well on his way to raising over his stated goal of $200,000. His pro bono attorneys, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), is a non-profit organization that doesn't make its money by charging clients -- it makes it through donations. The publicity from this case (as well as similar cases ADF has been bringing around the country) helped them pull in over $50 million (a new record for them) in fiscal 2016.
If he doesn't believe it's right then let it stay that way it's his business but no they make the biggest deal of course that's what the media is best at creating aka drama. They can buy a cake at another bakery.
Glen M, Greetings to you Sir, in the name of Jesus Christ!!! Thanks for the post!!! All true servants are commanded to preach in season and out of season!!! THE ONLY ONE'S WHO FINDS BREAD OF LIFE AND THE WINE OF JOY SERVED UNNECESSARILY ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER TASTED OF THE GOODNESS OF THE LORD!!! AMEN!!! BUT THE TABLE IS SET AND ALL WHO ARE HUNGRY AND ATHIRST ARE WELCOME, WHERE THE FEAST OF THE LORD IS ALWAYS GOING ON!!! AMEN!!! LOL!!! If I were your servant, hearing your displeasure at such, I suppose I would need to make a change!!! But I am glad to say, I belong to no man!!! For my Master is the Lord Jesus Christ and all that "HE" COMMANDS ME TO DO, I SHALL DO!!! WHERE HE TELLS ME TO GO, I SHALL GO AND WHAT HE TELLS ME TO SPEAK, I SHALL SPEAK WITHOUT ANY HESITATIONS!!! AMEN!!! If you choose not to drink from the rock, Amen!!! pass on my dear!!! But there are plenty thirsty souls who shall drink from my cup of refreshing waters!!! AMEN!!! Woe unto me if I preach not!!! AMEN!!! Have you ever seen a waterfall, where the water is just gushing out???? Have you ever seen Niagra falls, yes??? Did you say the waters gushing out were unnecessary??? I already knew how they were going to speak!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!! The ignorance is yet great!!! This has nothing to do with 'true religion" for it is a beautiful thing!!! Now the problems shall arise when one's religion is false!!! The true, living, Holy God is the God of faith, not religions!!! He is a Spirit and one must worship Him "in spirit and in truth" He is not worship with men's hands or a man's religion for there seems to be many!!! And many are full of madness!!! But this Holy God is One and His Word is One and His way is One, He is the same One, Holy God and He changeth not!!! What He says to one, He says to all, and all that has an ear to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to the church of Jesus Christ shall hear His voice and be glad "NOT SAD" about it!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!!
The back bone of a real spirit filled Cristian is Jesus Crist ,the Gift that God Gave you should be used to promote his truth before anything else..gay people are always trying to promote their gay beliefs .So should the religious acts .should never back down..in America gay people don't get stoned or get their head cut of .respecting each other beliefs sometimes is painful but necessary on both sides..
He doesn't have to bake the cake ...TRUE, but why not 'jack up' the price on them and bake it anyway? A few extra $$$ in your pocket beats having to hire a lawyer who likely AIN'T working for free! Not trying to be sarcastic, but look out for yourself and your family when it has to do with business; I doubt very seriously the good Lord will hold that against you when your day comes!
Jack, it is not a religion freedom case. It is a, "I cannot participate in your same sex marriage because that would be asking me to indorse it ." I cannot because God is opposed to same sex marriage. Also you are forcing the government to violate the First amendment to the constitution.
I don't think that making a cake has anything to do with free speech or practicing religion, but not making a cake for certain people has everything to do with discrimination. So it's all in what rules actually apply to the situation. Hopefully, the Supreme Court will see it the same way and not just go on party lines. I'm also rather surprised that he's still in business. I read that his business dropped off 40%, but I'm sort of surprised it wasn't more. Nothing like taking a stupid stance on something and ruining your business at the same time. Someone also started a crowdfunding website for the baker with a goal of $200,000, but so far has only raised $2000.
I just checked his crowdfunding site and, as of today, he's reached 22% of his stated goal of $200,000 (or $44,000). I'm sure the amount will go up as he goes on a publicity tour -- he appeared on The View a couple of weeks ago. To be honest, I would not be shocked at all if his attorneys, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), which has been classified as an anti-gay hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, have arranged private donations (which are tax free) to go to this man in order to encourage him to pursue this case. While the case is being adjudicated, he's removed custom wedding cakes from his menu (in order to comply with the law). He stated on The View that he sold about 200 wedding cakes/year at an average price of $500/each. He's in a suburb of Denver, CO. I'm a bit surprised he's still in business -- maybe the gay community there hasn't bothered to arrange for boycotts or protests at the bakery or anything and his community is just oblivious to the whole thing.
If the bakers were black, then the government would have just decided (and you obviously agree) that some black people would have to do the bidding of some white people, and are punished it they don't. There is a name for that. So, what makes this case different? Only that the bakers are WHITE. Make no mistake, this isn't exemplary of a gay/straight conflict, this is the systematic bashing of straight white people. Otherwise, we'd see Muslim bakeries getting sued for not making the gay cake. Oh, wait, Muslims are a minority too, so their wishes need to be accepted. You might as well get Hypocrite tattooed on your forehead.
You don't have the religious freedom to practice it on anyone else. The bible says at one point that all sins are the same. If we are all sinners then we are all the same. Practicing hate on others and calling it religous freedom is all the more reason to have strong laws based on the constitution. This guy has also said he puts Catholics in the same group as gays. He is a perpetrator not a victim who wants to control access to resources based on religion. That's how the Middle East happened. Different language, different book, same hate damage to the economy.
Its not religion it's an expression of hate and bad for the economy. What you would like to see happen is what happens in some third world countries and is the process of excluding people who are different. If this becomes precedent you could not make a cake for a second marriage, couple who is already pregnant, a Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Jew, Muslim etc, and they don't have to make one for you. For people who claim to follow Jesus, there sure isn't the expression of love for all sinners and ignoring his words to get the log out of your own eye, not judging others etc. See when I see this behavior in contrast to his teaching it tells me its just another hateful person out for his own glory and seeking special privileges. Follow the constitution and keep religion out of government and we might get somewhere. Otherwise we are no different than the extremists in the Middle East. It doesn't matter what brand of religion you are. Self righteous perversion of scripture and claiming a religion doesn't make you more special than any other American and doesn't give you the right to practice your religion on other people. You are free to practice it on yourself only. If you don't think withholding resources from someone arbitrarily doesn't infringe on rights then we absolutely need to make it clear in the law. If someone were to not bake a cake for a hateful Christian extremist they would certainly be complaining about being a victim and many do all the time. BS. Nobody is elite because of their religious status. We aren't slaves to Christianity, that's a choice. We are slaves to corporations because somehow electing lying POS's and making laws to allow corporations and government to bleed us dry is a Christian thing to do. Hey, that's your vote and our lives though. This government keeps you free, the hysteria is your own doing. You sound delusional so it seemed I needed to be clearer.
oh I'm starting to get it. The "third world country" comments are supposed to make me out to be someone different that you can just discount and ignore. not that you really think Im from a 3rd world country. No I'm an American and I will promote any other American's right to buy a cake to celebrate whatever they want over someone who wants to pick and choose who gets to be happy. No sin is greater than another, dont judge, and treat others as you would like to be treated. That used to Christian when Christ did it. Sure businesses have. Read something with the truth in it before getting extremist and speaking in absolutes and fantasy.
Galen Warren Have read it. Lot of controlling ridiculous rules like sharia law. Is that what you would like to make America? Replace the constitution and law with Leviticus so you can practice religion on others? That's not freedom and its not American. Sounds like you'd enjoy the middle East. Is rather not have a few church leaders dictating what we all can do while they do it themselves. You run around calling people stupid? Yeah that's Christian. Its not about faith. Its about your need to hate others. Way to get out Jesus's message christian.
there are many countries where it is illegal to be christian, why dont you go there and try pushing your agenda and see what happens . just be thankful for what rights you have here and stop bitching.
I am not gay but I would not have bought from them to start with and why would they go to a Christian bake shop I don't buy from anything this Christian that's why I don't eat from Chick-fil-A or go to Hobby Lobby or any kind of Christian organization or run. By Christians I don't go to those type of businesses
Frankie Turner it’s not a Christian bake shop he is just closed minded. I’m sure he hasn’t refused service for Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, etc. he just has a hang up on homosexuality as to most closet cases.
He could of tried that and risked his reputation as a quality cake baker or found the buyer suing him for a poorly made cake, a refusal to pay in full or a case of credit card fraud could have ensued.
If the bakers were black, then the government just decided that some black people have to do the bidding of some white people, and are punished it they don't. There is a name for that. So, what makes this case different? Only that the bakers are WHITE. Make no mistake, this isn't exemplary of a gay/straight conflict, this is the systematic bashing of white people, and you better wake up to it.
So, if they were, the situation would be different by your rebuttal. The day will come when this preferential treatment for anyone who can worm themselves into the description of "protected class" comes to an end. Restaurants regularly enforce dress codes far beyond the State laws regarding lewd behavior or Indecent exposure. Clubs in LA reserve the right to limit entry to only "beautiful or exciting" people. Would anyone have a case? Only if they were a protected class member. It will end.
Funny how he serves women without head coverings Against the bible but he don't care because people today only take what want to believe from the Bible A book that has caused so much trouble these days and the past
After hearing the entire story about what happened in the shop, I officially hate the people who are being this mean to this man!
I don't blame him for standing up for his belief.
Congratulations to the baker and his victory for religious freedom.
Would a Jewish bakery be expected to make a cake for a Nazi/skinhead wedding? I think not. This whole issue is so galactically stupid. Just leave people alone already, with their freedom to determine who they do or don't give their time, effort, and talents to. It's common sense (which isn't so common anymore, unfortunately). My God, what has this country come to?...
Dann Dobson It'll be interesting to see just what the Supreme Court will be saying regarding "the law" when it hears the Lakewood/Phillips case. Hopefully, the determination will be made that you can't force people to render services in violation of their religious convictions. It's sad how we've lost sight of common sense in this country.
+EMS SCOTUS issued a decision 50 years ago affirming a lower court's decision against a restaurant owner who refused to serve black people in violation of the law even though he claimed it violated his Baptist religious beliefs against the integration of the races. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newman_v._Piggie_Park_Enterprises,_Inc.
SCOTUS also declined to hear the same case (but involving a New Mexican wedding photographer) and let the ruling of New Mexico's Supreme Court against the photographer stand back in 2014. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-wont-review-new-mexico-gay-commitment-ceremony-photo-case/2014/04/07/f9246cb2-bc3a-11e3-9a05-c739f29ccb08_story.html?.533809874567
EMS you’re absolutely right .❤️
Dann Dobson - Amen to that!
vreed lak72 Those cases were based on race,
not
sexual orientation.
Irrelevant.
just find another bakery that is so simple
I am glad he won. They should have gone to another baker, not to court
The state knows that homosexuality is against the principles of many religions which people have the right to freely practice.The couple knowing this could have respected the baker's religion and rights and simply looked for another baker who wouldn't mind baking their cake but no.
They've essentially put him in danger, He states he is now receiving a lot of death threats simply because he is practicing and being faithful to his religious beliefs and now the many heterosexual couples who could have gotten wedding cakes from his business as there is no issue with that with his religion can't.
Seriously, the guy owns his skills and his craft he shouldn't be forced to apply his skill in a manner contrary to his religious beliefs
Way to go, Jack!
100% on your side like most of the Nation!
He doesn't have to bake a damn cake for anyone, he can refuse to do anything in his own shop, where are his rights?
You're right. He can take (customized wedding) cakes off his corporation's menu at any time and make them for no one. But if you think he has the freedom to refuse to serve customers based on race, color, religion or sexual orientation, you're not very familiar with civil rights legislation and anti-discrimination laws.
Vito Scatigno ..yes ! Thank you .❤️
Vito Scatigno yes, this was a set up, no doubt.
+L L Wow, you love to commit false witness. Hope you're willing to face the consequences. The gay couple only went their because their event planner recommended it.
This is from the interrogatory given by the gay couple in connection with this case (top of p. 183 of Joint Appendix submitted to the US Supreme Court):
Interrogatory No. 6: State when and under what circumstances you *first* became aware of Masterpiece Cakeshop, Inc.
Response to Interrogatory No. 6: We selected the restaurant 240 Union for our wedding reception. Their event planner, Sheri Casey, told us they usually suggested people having receptions there use Masterpiece Cakeshop for their cakes.
www.aclu.org/legal-document/craig-and-mullins-v-masterpiece-cakeshop-joint-appendix
Oh, and since you have access to this Joint Appendix, you might want to take a look at the affidavit provided by Jack Phillips (par. 34 on the bottom of p. 160). He states: "I design and create the majority of wedding cakes sold by Masterpiece Cakeshop, Inc." So - it's possible that Mr. Phillips could have resolved this whole issue by simply assigning the task of making the couple's wedding cake to his employees, 6 of whom he fired when the corporation elected to stop selling wedding cakes. See: www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/26/gay-couple-devout-baker-take-cake-fight-high-court/875305001/
vreed lak72 ...I am so sorry you are unable to understand the point. Carry on
The homosexual men should try an 'Islamic' bakery, one run by Muslims.......then take them to court for refusing a wedding cake!
lol my thoughts exactly
way to go! Stand up for God! Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, body! We stand with you!
S C G read a bible. You clearly never read one.
Linda Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it. Hebrews 13:2 : All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. John 6:37 You are filled with hate and YOU don't know God, So stop trying to use GOD as your reason to hate
@daniel Davis: _You are filled with hate and YOU don't know God, So stop trying to use GOD as your reason to hate_
What a fat cup of Hate™ you must have drank! Only a full lifetime of blaming everyone else for your personal flaws can usually generate that. God's hate for that sort of hypocrisy is an infinitely greater cup.
Linda Keaton Don’t stand up for god do what is morally right and stand up for all human rights!!!
John Sterling IB By serving humanity I assume you mean pro creation. Some people choose not to have children and that is their choice. Other than that there is adoption, foster parenting, surrogacy, artificial insemination. When someone chooses to get married they are not thinking about how said marriage will serve humanity, they are thinking about how much they love that person. Gay marriage really will not do any harm at all to society. The over whelming majority of people are heterosexual anyway so why does it matter? The correct answer is that it doesn’t matter!
He didn’t refuse to serve them a cake, he refused to make it the way they asked. He didn’t want to put to males on the cake but he was willing to make the cake... baking cakes to him is an art... you can’t go to a painter and demand something painted that is offensive to the painter!!! It’s not the same thing as refusing to service blacks, this man has a choice in what cakes he wants to make and sell! I hope the Supreme Court will rule in his favor
The design of the cake was never discussed, the moment he was told it was for their wedding reception, he told them he doesn't make wedding cakes for same-sex weddings, and that was that.
nice, with ad hominems, looking at your username I can assume thats what your best at lol have a great day
nice very nice, very intellectual of you... where did i lie? lololol, im cracking up cuz youre so triggered
sciencetrumpsfaith yes there we go there’s the snowflake in ya! Jesus was very hood at exposing snowflakes! How is that statement you quoted false? LOL
sciencetrumpsfaith Actually I heared the same Thing:-)
These damn demons are not going to shove their filth down our throats!..we're not going to stand for it anymore; .Christian stand up for what's right in Jesus name!.. God will restore whatever you lost.. God bless this family and help him endure till the end! If God is for us who can be against us??.
Lita Martinez,
Very well said.
If I am forced to do something I don't want to you can bet I am not going to do my best !!!!!!!!!!
***** Christians & Churches were always against gay marriage did this gay couple think a Christian baker was gonna change to carter for them
***** As Christians gay people are more than welcome into church for service & fellowship they are respected but the Church draws the line with gay marriages that includes Christian businesses as it goes against our beliefs but we don't go killing gays, chopping their heads off, hanging them off buildings like Musilms do today in 2017 especially overseas yet the gay community act so tough against Christians ummm.
Funny why don't gays fight for justice against murder against gay people etc & marriages in Mosques & other religions....
***** what part of this bussiness the owner being a Christian don't you understand??.. many people in that community already knew he doesn't carter for gay marriages.
***** What are gays doing against Musilms?..
***** What's wrong you gone quiet
Jack remembered that king NEBUCHADNEZZAR tried to force the three young Hebrews to bow down to worship his golden statue.
But they refused to compromise and accepted death.
I knew after the legalization of same sex marriage that will affected Christians because marriage is an institution of God not men and it is only between a man and a woman.
Same sex marriage is an unacceptable human relationship.
Leviticus 18:22
Leveticus 20:13
but they did not die
One man and one woman no matter what color is biblical.
I recall the day I went into a dressmakers shop and the gay owner make it clear he was not making dresses for anyone other than gay people.
I simply moved on respecting his decision to what he felt comfortable with. Dressmaker on every corner just like a cake maker. People cause drama because that is what they want to do. They do not live in peace. They chose to be nasty and hen peck.
Isn't it funny how those who demand to be tolerated are unwilling to tolerate?
laynn 10 there is a huge difference between being generally intolerant and not tolerating the people who do not show tolerance to us.
I honestly doubt that you went to a dress maker and they denied you for being straight. Sounds like horse shit. But if it did happen you could have sued. Just cus your dumbass accepted being discriminated doesn't make it right! As for your line about tolerance it applies to Christians. Look at how Jack plays victim.
find him and sue that dressmaker now
Maria S they should but I think they are lying.
@@robronsuggle6897 lol ok so because it's not the other way around its gotta be a lie. I guess ppl are gonna believe what they wanna believe 😂
Religion tends to diminish empathy for those outside one's own tribe. It is the duty of American law to ease the differences between groups, not make them worse.
like hell it is the duty of that mountain of stinking shit called the law quit making endless fucking laws
You sound like the kind of idiot that laws are designed to protect citizens from.
You sound like one of those hapless lowlifes on "Cops" who gets chased down wearing nothing but his underwear and some facial tattoos.
Respect man for standing up for his faiths till the end and win
He didn't refuse them, he didn't refuse to serve them. He just refused to make a gay marriage cake.
Maybe he should just have made a rubbish cake.
I think I'll go into Jewish and Muslim shops and demand a bacon sandwich......
So a Muslim print shop owner has to serve a customer wanting to print a non offensive cartoon/picture of the prophet Mohammed even though his belief forbids it?
I respect your religious convictions. They might not be mine, but they're yours. I hope you have a beautiful year. You have my respect and I'm gay. God bless you.
Wow. I didn't realize the government is putting a gun to this man's head and forced him to open up a corporation AND have said corporation offer to the public customized cakes. What bastards!
He opened the shop long before gay marriage was made legal. It's not like he opened knowing he'd be asked to make a cake that goes against his religious beliefs.
Oh, I live in one of the top Destination Wedding cities in the country (and, indeed, in the world). Weddings are BIG BUSINESS here, and we hold several wedding expos around town throughout the year. After Obergefell, we started seeing many more same-sex couples attending said expos, though with trepidation. If they saw a vendor they liked, they would invariably ask the question, "Do you cater to same-sex weddings?" Almost without exception, they were answered, "No, we do weddings, period." In other words, there is no distinction. We service whomever can pay for our services, and we're happy to do so. In short, discrimination, as displayed by Mr. Phillips, is bad for business.
What I can never understand is that growing up I remember everywhere I went in stores and restaurants there were signs that stated not word for word but something in the line of "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" so I could never understand why now all these years later we are having these types of arguments about something a simple as a baker not wanting to make a cake for a same sex wedding....but yet when a bakery is asked to make a cake for a pro blue loves matter customer and is turned away they are cheered, when a restaurant literally refused to serve a group of police officers simply because they were police officers they cheered, the lost could go on and on yet because it's for a LGBTQ'S person they protest and try to destroy that person and his livelihood because they believe that government is there to force people to do their bidding, yet you only see them doing this to Christians you never see them do this to any Muslim bakers and there has been Muslim baker's that have said no to making a cake for a same sex wedding.
The whole point of being in a free country under capitalism is that we have the ability of free choice, why would you want to have a person who doesn't want to make something or participate in something be the person you want to hire to do the job, we have a country filled with thousands of people that do the same thing that could easily fill you needs and would be pleased to take your money so why go through all of this trouble to force someone into doing something that goes against what they personally believes in...it's their religious beliefs not decriminalization based on race that was born out of hatred. By having the government make someone go against their religious beliefs it isn't going to change the way people see this issue and make this issue go away it is only going to make it worst because it then becomes the other person who is being targeted and prosecuted against leaving behind and even wider divide between the two groups that will never be able to come together and end up only getting worst over time.
Have you caught the news in Baltimore about the police beating and stealing from people. selling drugs, and being criminals? Liking or disliking someone isn't a crime. Refusing to follow the law so you can punish someone you don't like is a different story. This whole outrage because you aren't allowed to mistreat someone you don't like because you think other people get to do it is sick. How did Christians become the allies of neonazis and hate? Not what I was told about Jesus. Now they vote primarily for liars and cheats who are ripping away resources so that the rich profit and regular people die. How did that become Christian?
Congratulations 😇Mr. Baker !!!!!!!! MAGA💜🇺🇸🌈
Thank God for a man who doesnt want to lie; Great hearing someone sticking by their conviction
And God's law is above our laws.
Sum Mors~
You are so wrong about the US being a 'secular' nation or have you forgotten that it says 'In God We Trust'. I am a Californian and just wanted to call you out on ignorance.
Sum More~
Wrong again. The truth behind separation of Church and State was to keep the State/government from interfering in the Church. And not the other way around.
Sum Mors~
And like I said initially; God's law is always above our own. You may not a believer, but there are plenty in this great country that are. You will find out when you die how wrong you've been.
Sum Mors~
You already know the answer to that question. It's Christendom. The US was founded on it. It's not buddhism, it's not Islam. Come on you're killin me smalls!
GiMarie Amen!!! Amen!!! Amen!!! Bless the name of Jesus Christ!!! Soon coming "King" every eye shall behold Him and every knee shall bow, and confess to Holy God!!! Amen!!! Amen!!!
Take heart Jack Matthew 5 vs 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Separation of Church and State, I recollect that Court Hearing being that a Business had the right to Religious Morality and Religious substrate, that the State has no right to interfere in Private Religious Matters.
Jack Phillips , i support your religious right.
I wonder how many Muslim bakeries offered to make then a cake to their liking?
The right to ones religion and the free exercise there of is constitutional right. Not all cake shops are owned and operated by religious people, in fact most are not. David Mullins and Charlie Craig could have easily had countless other bakeries make them a cake and they know that. They could have shown the same respect to the baker they themselves are demanding from him, which is the right to be free. David Mullins and Charlie Craig are free to marry or not, and the baker is free to bake a cake for not. What is clear is David Mullins and Charlie Craig are trying to force the baker to give up his freedom and green light their life stile and are throwing a hissy fit about the difficulty in doing so. Look at it this way. Today the State is trying to take the freedom of the baker away, tomorrow the state maybe trying to take a freedom of yours away. You cant cry foul then if you cant cry foul now.
Franco well said.
God bless you jack live for Jesus
If he won't give them a cake, find someone who has a religion that does not refuse same sex marriage cakes.
CozmoTube yeah kinda like go down the street to the colored business because you’re not welcome here. Don’t you miss the good old days of government endorsed bigotry on a large scale?
Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." This applies to the guy trying to buy a cake. Not the baker who on his own free will chose to discriminate making one sin greater than another and judging someone else. This playing victim when you are the one who imposed his control on another person like this baker did is disgusting and radical extremism.
I just watched 4 Muslim bakeries said, " no we will not serve you "
Yeah? Where? And hopefully the victims of their discrimination will sue them as well if it's even true. Unless you just want to discriminate because you think others do so it's OK?
Amanda J. King Islam is really strict you know...
A person in business for them self can work for whoever they want. All he has to say is that he's too backed up with work and can't schedule them. I work for whoever I want in my business and could care less what the government or anyone else says
ƜĦЄИ ƳѲƲ ƤΔЯƬƖƆƖƤΔƬЄ ƖИ ƬĦЄ ƆѲѦѦѲИƜЄΔ˩ƬĦ ƳѲƲ ƤΔЯƬƖƆƖƤΔƬЄ ƖИ ƬĦЄ ƆѲѦѦѲИ ƉЄИѲѦƖИΔƬѲЯ ƜĦƖƆĦ ƖƧ ЄǪƲΔ˩ƖƬƳ.
888strummer I'm with the baker in this case
Gen 1:26,27 We as Christians truly believe in the beginning God created man/women in His image. He blessed Adam/Eve told them to be fruitful and multiply replenish the earth and subdue it. No disrespect to anyone who believes different. You can't get true believers to denounce Christ. If we say it's ok for same sex marriage it would be a slap in our face against the God we serve. We want God to be pleased w/us. Showing Him honor even in our flaws. We as Christians have many scriptures in our defence. Lev18:22, Rom1:24:32 many more. I'm sure people who feel our religious freedoms is a made up book,but and our liberties don't matter. I beg to differ. The lawyers are on the battlefield using legal terminology for our first amendment, religious freedom defense. People civil liberties are next. Satan is such a maliplitive deceiver. I and others are praying continue fighting the good fight of faith no matter what comes up against us.
God bless
Sis Verleana
Christians love gays by telling them the truth so they can be save and have eternal life.
Poor Jack, it’s his right. Let him alone.
Gays crying - ME ME ME, MINE MINE MINE NOW NOW NOW.
bochap21 why are you acting like I don’t know that? I do.
We all know that any kind of prejudice within a company can be suicidal, but businesses should be able to reserve the right to refuse services without justifying the reason. It's one thing having restrictions on sales and service, but no business should be forced to make a sale or provide services against their will. Many federal and local laws are like taking pharmaceutical medications, you get something extra you didn't bargain for.
Im not Gay not a woman or am i transgender.
I am a man i hope i can say that because i think they are trying to change up that to.
Hey if he didnt want to make that cake he has a right to do so.
Thats his right as a owner of a business.
Hi my name is makenna I don’t know if jack will ever see this but I do know that I am a Pentecostal Christian and we shouldn’t have to be told that we have to defy our religion because we don’t believe in this. god said that man and woman should love not man and man should love I think what jack did is very brave and anyone would be lucky to know him
First, it was still recognized that art is the same as speech when it celebrates or denigrates any recognized belief or behavior. Just as media outlets can put a disclaimer on any speaker making comment (you know, "the opinions expressed do not necessarily represent the views of the network"), such a disclaimer could be demanded be placed on any artistic effort. From now on, any baker who disagrees with the message they are being requested to create art for can place on the cake a disclaimer, and it can be as big and prolific as any other writing on the art. Artistic expression has only one arbiter when it comes to sale. So, as long as it is made clear any request to deviate from any standard product they produce will require expressive and artistic effort, and therefore the value can be uniquely assigned.
When the next gay couple looking to get force a known Christian into making their cake, they can place the disclaimer and charge ANY price they want. $135,000 would be a good low number for consideration, since that seems to be the going rate for not "doing the right thing" and refusing.
What if he denied baking a cake for African Americans? Would that be ok? Businesses do not have a right to discriminate. Nobody is forcing them to bake cakes. Baking cakes is not an expression of free speech or religion. It is a commercial business. You pay and you get a service, without discrimination. Period.
When you own a car, it doesn't matter how you got it, it's yours. Whether you assembled it yourself piece-by-piece, or inherited it from your parents or bought it from a car lot, it doesn't matter how you acquired it...it's yours, you own it. Bigotry is the same way. Whether you formed it yourself, got it from your parents or bought it from a religious "car lot", it's yours now. You own it, so own up to it.
Can I refuse to serve Christians in my business?
of course that is your first amendment right.
No. He wasn't refusing gays. He had served gays many times. The idea is he was refusing to be compelled by the government to create a cake that represented something he did not believe in. This is the same exact thing that happens when Phillips says "No, I'm not making a Nazi cake. No, I'm not making an ISIS cake. No, I'm not making a Halloween cake. No, I'm not making a Rainbow cake. No, I'm not making a porn cake." Do you believe Phillips has the right to refuse to bake a cake in all the other situations represented? If your answer is no, then you have failed to grasp the unparalleled protections the American Constitution provides its citizens in freedom of thought, freedom of conscience and the idea the government can NEVER compel someone to support an IDEA or BELIEF. If your answer is yes, then you've grasped the key issue, this is not about discrimination because he didn't discriminate. This is about whether the government can COMPEL an artist to use his artistic expression to create something (such as a Halloween cake or same sex couple cake) that supports something that goes against what he believes. Phillips has even stated "I don't make any anti-American cakes". Do you have a problem with that?? (To answer your original question, a baker can not refuse a Christian BECAUSE he is Christian but they CAN refuse to bake a cake with a bible verse or religious symbol. And yes this has happened. AND we didn't sue. Because we respect your Constitutional Rights! So respect ours!)
The answer is YES. However, what's the difference between a heterosexual wedding cake and a same sex couple cake. IF I PUT 2 IDENTICAL CAKES SIDE BY SIDE (ONE FOR A STRAIGHT WEDDING AND ONE FOR A GAY WEDDING), *COULD YOU, ALWAYS, WITH 100% ACCURACY, PICK WHICH CAKE IS FOR THE GAY WEDDING?*
If the baker wouldn't make a custom Halloween-themed cake (or a porn cake or a Nazi cake or a rainbow cake) for any other customer, he most certainly wouldn't have to do it for a gay customer.
PS: You wrote "To answer your original question, a baker can not refuse a Christian BECAUSE he is Christian but they CAN refuse to bake a cake with a bible verse or religious symbol. And yes this has happened. . AND we didn't sue "
If you're referring to the case of Azucar Bakery in Denver, CO, the customer *MOST CERTAINLY DID FILE A COMPLAINT WITH COLORADO'S CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION.* The customer, William Jack *who apparently knows Jack Phillips*, went to the baker and asked for two custom cake in the shape of a bible with the words. For one cake, he wanted the one side to read: "God hates sin. Psalm 45.7" and on the other side "Homosexuality is a detestable sin Leviticus 18.2". Azucar refused because it has a policy of not writing derogatory messages on any cake for any customer. William Jack filed a complaint claiming Azucar discriminated against him because he was a Christian. Colorado's CRC investigated to see if this as true and dismissed the case, after such investigation, because it didn't find probably cause that the refusal of service was due to the customer's religion. Some facts that it took into account in making the decision, including (i) THE FACT THAT THE BAKER HAD A POLICY OF NOT WRITING DEROGATORY MESSAGES ON ANY CAKE FOR ANY CUSTOMER, were (ii) THE OWNER OF THE BAKERY WAS CATHOLIC AND HAD SEVERAL EMPLOYEES WHO WERE CHRISTIAN and (iii) THE BAKERY OFFERED TO MAKE THE CUSTOMER BIBLE CAKES (WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT HAD MADE FOR OTHER CUSTOMERS - JUST NOT WITH THOSE WORDS ON THEM) AND OFFERED TO GIVE THE CUSTOMER A PIPING BAG SO HE COULD WRITE WHATEVER HE WANTED ON THE CAKE WHEN IT BECAME HIS POSSESSION AFTER PURCHASE." Here's a link to the decision, in case you care to educate yourself: media.thedenverchannel.com/document/2015/04/23/Jack_Williams_V_Azucar_Bakery_17228465_ver1.0.pdf
+Darla This gay couple never visited this bakery after being denied service 5 years ago. What are you talking about? All they did was let Colorado know that a law had been broken.
A Christian friend of this baker, Jack Phillips, went around to 3 bakeries in the Denver area asking for cakes that read "Homosexuality is a detestable sin" and when his requests were not honored (as the bakeries explained that they wouldn't write such messages on a cake for any customer), he complained to Colorado's Civil Rights Commission and claimed he was being discriminated against because he was a Christian.
Mr.Phillips served these customers before (so no discrimination) ,it is only in their wedding he would not participate.
Wow....whats more hateful? Declining to make a cake because of religious convictions, or flipping off that baker and cursing at him? Glad to get the other side of the story.....i really feel for this guy and all the bullying he's had to endure from both the public and the Colorado government.
"How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite" Luke 6:42, or "Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew 19:21
Why are they not targeting Muslim Bakery's?
This issue does not just concern this man and homosexuals. It concerns all of society all across America! If we allow this man to discriminate, then we have to allow EVERYONE who owns a business to discriminate against anyone they want to! And if we allow that, it's going to open up the flood gates to the point where ANY business can deny service to ANYONE for ANY REASON! And this includes not just bakeries and small businesses, but banks, realtors, department stores, attorneys and even schools, police departments, doctors and hospitals! This cannot be allowed to happen, because it will ultimately put ALL OF US in serious danger!
If the bakers were black, then the government just decided (and you agree) that some black people have to do the bidding of some white people, and are punished it they don't. There is a name for that. So, what makes this case different? Only that the bakers are WHITE. Make no mistake, this isn't exemplary of a gay/straight conflict, this is the systematic bashing of white people, and you better wake up to it.
You are totally right. Unfortunately people don’t want to see that.
Private businesses should be allowed to discriminate for whatever reason
artoru vidal2 So private businesses should be exempt from the law for any reason they like? Well, then they might as well shoot any gay people who walk into their store, say they did it because god told them to and get away with murder right? That’s what you are saying, it’s basically their business so their choice
Rebecca Brown
I didn't say anything about killing
I was talking about the right to refuses services to people .
This country is dying because of people like you
Glad that i left the shithole they call America long time ago and i am a brown guy
This is actually a HUGE ruling. This story shines the light on how Liberals think. That you have to accept them or you are going to be sorry. The Supreme Court said that the Colorado Court acted hostile towards the baker. The Colorado Court acted with a bias towards the baker (hard to comprehend the Colorado Court had to be reprimanded like this). The gay couple could have been adult and realistic about it and just gone to another baker, BUT NO!!! They had to act hostile and sue the baker, and all the way to the Supreme Court... Such a vindictive act. The gay couple was so offended that they were going to make this simple baker "pay" for not accepting them for being gay that they decided to punish the baker for essentially having his own counter beliefs. This gay couple didn't care if the baker was offended. The Supreme Court stated that the gay couple needs to be tolerant of the bakers views and opinions and his religious beliefs as well. That tolerance is a two way street, Kapish??!!! The gay couple expected and demanded their opinions and beliefs to be accepted, respected, and tolerated yet they would not accept, respect, and tolerate the bakers religious beliefs. This is why people can't and don't want to get along with those with such extreme beliefs and behavior. Everyone needs to tolerate others even if the other person is a jerk, nasty, or wrong. True adults don't act so poorly which shows you, those that do, are not adult regardless of their age.
The government is not forcing religious bigots to violate their religion, it is only requiring compliance with anti-discrimination laws. A religion cannot arbitrarily declare that its tenets demand that its members be allowed to violate civil laws.There is nothing in Christianity that requires bakers to discriminate against their gay customers, the religion only prohibits members from engaging in gay sex themselves. Otherwise Christians could claim that their faith prohibits them from selling to anyone who commits any sin.
no its homofascists that seem to think their choice should be given over religious freedom
atheistsrnumber1 No one's religious freedom is harmed by anti-discrimination laws.
Cheer up!!! my man, this is the meaning of being christian, this is why ain't easy being christian. This is just a test and Jesus is walkin beside you on this tortuous path.
There is no religious teaching that requires Christians to discriminate against gay people. There are two sentences in the bible that condemn sex acts between males, but the baker is not being asked to have sex with a man, only sell a wedding cake. he ought to read the many verses in the bible having to do with brotherhood, tolerance, non-judgmental acceptance, love and goodwill before he focuses on an excuse to show contempt for other people's marriages as part of a a wider ideological war against gay rights.
Homosexuals have rights and so does the baker who refused to create a cake with a homosexual theme on religious grounds.
The baker is out of pocket for lawyer fees and years of court battle which took a toll on him and his family so the homosexual couple still got a form of win by costing the baker a large sum of money along with death threats and other verbal abuse.
What they did not get was a payday which I suspect their visit to this particular baker was with for knowledge of his stand on homosexuality due to his religion.
Kristen Waggoner you are so confused about the First Amendment. It is freedom of religion, it is not freedom to discriminate. You cannot impose your religious beliefs on others and violate their freedom. You are free to worship as you wish, you cannot force blacks to the back of the bus or stop women from voting and you cannot deny services to a person based on their race, gender, age or sexual orientation. Hello, is it really that difficult to understand?
+Gary DeMaria You're missing the point entirely. He did not impose his beliefs on the gay couple. He did not force the couple to do anything. He refused to be apart of something he did not believe in. They sought him out. They imposed their beliefs on him. They forced *him* to "the back of the bus" so to speak.
You seem to imply the cakeshop owner took action to stop their wedding or contact the couple and demand he be apart of their wedding but refuse to make the cake they chose.
This logic would never fly in the opposite direction.
+NegativePositivePrimitive I do understand your point. And there are situations where that does apply.
Here's the difference. When you have a public business, discrimination laws say that you cannot pick and choose which customers you service and which ones you do not based on sex, gender, race, religion and sexual orientation. So, the distinguishing point is that the cake maker's business is public and they may not discriminate. They may not choose to service some and not service others.
Replace "gay" with "black" and it may seem more obvious. If you belong to the KKK, you cannot refuse to bake a cake for a black person.
An appropriate option would have been that a different employee make the cake. Just like with Kim Davis, she could have allowed another clerk to process the marriage certificate, but she refused to allow them to do it. As long as the company provides the service, it doesn't matter which individual is involved. If there are no willing employees, they are out of luck, someone must do it.
Gary DeMaria It's different than Kim Davis, because Davis was a government employee.
Cakeshop owner doesn't agree on a religious POV in gay marriage. So people are saying he should forget about his personal religious convictions and go against what he believes is right. That's pretty unfair. That's forcing someone to do something they believe is wrong. That is like forcing a gay bakery to make a wedding cake that said "Gay marriage is wrong".
He is the owner, and he believes its by moral standard that he can't be apart of homosexuality. He didn't try to stop the wedding or protest on the streets. Sincerely, that was a pretty lousy move. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean you have to sue them over it.
+NegativePositivePrimitive, yes, that is the cornerstone of the issue: religious 'freedom' versus individual rights. In the USA, the laws prohibit discrimination, even in the case of religious convictions by the government as well as public and private companies and even individuals. This is the law, we can discuss whether we think its right or wrong, but the reason they can sue, is because they violated this law.
I do believe the law is correct. Think about all the different religions and their particular beliefs, and even all the contradictions within those religions. For example, my Methodist Church has a gay minister. Should we go to court to debate which religious beliefs is 'correct' or do we accept all interpretations? If we accept them all, then we are accepting the Westborough Baptist Church and the KKK, we also have to accept Muslim's beliefs and Budha's cast system. The only logical solution is to keep church and state separate and say that if you choose to do business, you cannot discriminate. If you need to discriminate, they you need to find a new business. This is the law and it makes sense to me for these reasons.
Regarding your point that the cake baker did not try to stop the wedding. I covered this by saying he cannot deny service as that is discrimination; but I wanted to add, why does baking a cake even constitute accepting gay marriage? It is not as though he were performing the ceremony himself. He is simply providing dessert. This point has nothing to do with the law or discrimination, I'm just making the observation that baking a cake does not condone the event the cake is used for, the cake baker is making a statement, just as the gay couple is by suing.
This case will go down in the history books just like the first blacks who ate at the white-only counter so many years ago. In 40 years, people will look back and wonder how people could be full of such bigotry just as we look at the whites who dragged the blacks away from the restaurant.
+Gary DeMaria well he wasn't discriminating against gays. He sold to gays all the time it said. Just not custom wedding cakes.
Something missed on this case....Colorado did not recognize same sex marriage on the day these two gays walked into that shop and demanded a specific cake for their gay marriage.
Did anyone see his cakes? if they are very considered a piece of art he may not be able to fulfill it because he needs to be inspired to create it. If they are regular wedding cakes I'll say it's discrimination.
this isn't about speech freedom....it isn't about same sex weddings....it is about forced servitude and the gay community trying to manipulate the law and the justice system into having the right to force someone not only to work, but to work for them supporting the gay agenda....forced servitude is slavery....every american has the right to work and use their trade and each of us also has a right to refuse to work for any person and for any reason....no one has the right to service from any business for any reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The US Supreme Court rejected your slavery argument with respect to these anti-discrimination laws back in 1964. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Atlanta_Motel,_Inc._v._United_States
Committing a sin to tell other people they are sinners, guess what? We are all sinners where does it stop? When Jesus comes back. Bake the cake, send the flowers put a smile on your christian faith you have a lot to be thankful for.
The scotus ruling 7-2 is symbolic only. Society says a business will not use God to discriminate.
It's called freedom. Leave Jack alone.
This was done to shut a small Christian business and spread another "mean homophobic Christians" story around the media. Couple must new that based on his religious beliefs he wouldn't and couldn't bake that freaking cake, I assume that none of same sex couples ever ordered and got the "gay" wedding cake from Jack's cakeshop!
What makes this couple believed that it's going to be different in their case!
This isn't just about a cake, it's about principle of a honorable Christian man who holds tight to his stands!
People have the right to follow their religious convictions. Businesses however do not, if you are part of a business then you must put your personal convictions to one side otherwise your business will fail.
He does have a right to refuse custom however the shop is not advertised as a Christian Bakers it’s his personal view he’s taking to work. If you’re beliefs are so strong open up a bible shop.
Individual discrimination unfortunately is part of freedom as long as they don't work for a government service. Government force however noble the cause may become the tyranny of force not freedom.
Nothing to do with a cake, the message is that man was discriminating these gay guys, public place call for public service if he wants to do art, well open an art shop
The message actually is "you will accept homosexuality or get sued"
Dear Jesus, protect me from the cults and hate filled followers that claim your name. Amen.
Good man.
This guy claims to be a Christian.
So, if this guy is to make cakes for gay weddings, won't that tarnish his name/business?
That is how I think our government will eventually assume a position like "a god".
Which still doesn't make sense. For this reason, I like whatever I read in The Bible.
It's straight (no pun intended) forward, and leaves little to be examined further.
Yet, it's people who want to pick at this and that, and make legal issues out of everything.
I'm thinking there's a reason that The Bible continues is the world's best selling book. It really tends to separate the "right" from the "wrong".
Sad that he can't just do what he loves to do -- be a baker. The men should've just found another baker. Instead of destroying this man's livelihood. What businesses are they in? Bet they wouldn't bend over backwards serving Christians now would they? Hypocritical.
If you can force a baker to make a cake in a certain way or expressing beliefs not his, against his will, then you should be able to demand that Tom Cruise act in the your low budget sci-fi with a script he doesn't like... and for scale wages!
here is a solution... the bakery doesn't make wedding cakes for sale... but, they can make them as gifts to whom they want... and receive charity for it... would that work? xD
cheers!
This man needs to man up, grow some balls and stop playing the victim.
What teaching of Jesus says to treat gays unlike you'd like to be treated?
First amendment protects everyone including Jack and the gay couple. None has a higher right than the other. This has to do more about the $$$
Perhaps you have a point. As this gay couple didn't sue, they haven't made a penny. All they did was report a crime/violation of the law to Colorado's authorities. If this gay couple did sue (as the gay customer of a Washington florist did), they may be able to get reimbursed for the gas money that they wasted (in the florist case, it was around $8.00) -- and, depending on Colorado's law, reimbursement of their attorneys fees.
However, this baker has gone crowdfunding and he's well on his way to raising over his stated goal of $200,000. His pro bono attorneys, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), is a non-profit organization that doesn't make its money by charging clients -- it makes it through donations. The publicity from this case (as well as similar cases ADF has been bringing around the country) helped them pull in over $50 million (a new record for them) in fiscal 2016.
If he doesn't believe it's right then let it stay that way it's his business but no they make the biggest deal of course that's what the media is best at creating aka drama. They can buy a cake at another bakery.
Don't say it's a wedding cake.
Glen M, Greetings to you Sir, in the name of Jesus Christ!!! Thanks for the post!!! All true servants are commanded to preach in season and out of season!!! THE ONLY ONE'S WHO FINDS BREAD OF LIFE AND THE WINE OF JOY SERVED UNNECESSARILY ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER TASTED OF THE GOODNESS OF THE LORD!!! AMEN!!! BUT THE TABLE IS SET AND ALL WHO ARE HUNGRY AND ATHIRST ARE WELCOME, WHERE THE FEAST OF THE LORD IS ALWAYS GOING ON!!! AMEN!!! LOL!!! If I were your servant, hearing your displeasure at such, I suppose I would need to make a change!!! But I am glad to say, I belong to no man!!! For my Master is the Lord Jesus Christ and all that "HE" COMMANDS ME TO DO, I SHALL DO!!! WHERE HE TELLS ME TO GO, I SHALL GO AND WHAT HE TELLS ME TO SPEAK, I SHALL SPEAK WITHOUT ANY HESITATIONS!!! AMEN!!! If you choose not to drink from the rock, Amen!!! pass on my dear!!! But there are plenty thirsty souls who shall drink from my cup of refreshing waters!!! AMEN!!! Woe unto me if I preach not!!! AMEN!!! Have you ever seen a waterfall, where the water is just gushing out???? Have you ever seen Niagra falls, yes??? Did you say the waters gushing out were unnecessary??? I already knew how they were going to speak!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!! The ignorance is yet great!!! This has nothing to do with 'true religion" for it is a beautiful thing!!! Now the problems shall arise when one's religion is false!!! The true, living, Holy God is the God of faith, not religions!!! He is a Spirit and one must worship Him "in spirit and in truth" He is not worship with men's hands or a man's religion for there seems to be many!!! And many are full of madness!!! But this Holy God is One and His Word is One and His way is One, He is the same One, Holy God and He changeth not!!! What He says to one, He says to all, and all that has an ear to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to the church of Jesus Christ shall hear His voice and be glad "NOT SAD" about it!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!!
He should have said I don't have gay cake toppers ! But if you guys want to order one you can put it on! I will leave the spot open!
Please don't try to make race and homosexuality the same.
The back bone of a real spirit filled Cristian is Jesus Crist ,the Gift that God Gave you should be used to promote his truth before anything else..gay people are always trying to promote their gay beliefs .So should the religious acts .should never back down..in America gay people don't get stoned or get their head cut of .respecting each other beliefs sometimes is painful but necessary on both sides..
He doesn't have to bake the cake ...TRUE, but why not 'jack up' the price on them and bake it anyway? A few extra $$$ in your pocket beats having to hire a lawyer who likely AIN'T working for free! Not trying to be sarcastic, but look out for yourself and your family when it has to do with business; I doubt very seriously the good Lord will hold that against you when your day comes!
He could have, but again, take their money....They might have simply come back when he wasn't busy.
What happened to "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?
What about "sandwich artist" who refuses to serve based his religious beliefs.
Jack, it is not a religion freedom case. It is a, "I cannot participate in your same sex marriage because that would be asking me to indorse it ." I cannot because God is opposed to same sex marriage. Also you are forcing the government to violate the First amendment to the constitution.
Microphonix Virtual Studio if God is against same sex marriage then it wouldn’t be so rampant these days now would it lol
he made a big mistake ...he should have just quoted them $1 mill ... and left it at that
or make the cake but make it out of ex-lax!
Discrimination is not an expression of religious freedom, it is only an expression of bigotry.
I don't think that making a cake has anything to do with free speech or practicing religion, but not making a cake for certain people has everything to do with discrimination. So it's all in what rules actually apply to the situation. Hopefully, the Supreme Court will see it the same way and not just go on party lines.
I'm also rather surprised that he's still in business. I read that his business dropped off 40%, but I'm sort of surprised it wasn't more. Nothing like taking a stupid stance on something and ruining your business at the same time. Someone also started a crowdfunding website for the baker with a goal of $200,000, but so far has only raised $2000.
I just checked his crowdfunding site and, as of today, he's reached 22% of his stated goal of $200,000 (or $44,000). I'm sure the amount will go up as he goes on a publicity tour -- he appeared on The View a couple of weeks ago. To be honest, I would not be shocked at all if his attorneys, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), which has been classified as an anti-gay hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, have arranged private donations (which are tax free) to go to this man in order to encourage him to pursue this case.
While the case is being adjudicated, he's removed custom wedding cakes from his menu (in order to comply with the law). He stated on The View that he sold about 200 wedding cakes/year at an average price of $500/each. He's in a suburb of Denver, CO. I'm a bit surprised he's still in business -- maybe the gay community there hasn't bothered to arrange for boycotts or protests at the bakery or anything and his community is just oblivious to the whole thing.
If the bakers were black, then the government would have just decided (and you obviously agree) that some black people would have to do the bidding of some white people, and are punished it they don't. There is a name for that. So, what makes this case different? Only that the bakers are WHITE. Make no mistake, this isn't exemplary of a gay/straight conflict, this is the systematic bashing of straight white people. Otherwise, we'd see Muslim bakeries getting sued for not making the gay cake. Oh, wait, Muslims are a minority too, so their wishes need to be accepted. You might as well get Hypocrite tattooed on your forehead.
You don't have the religious freedom to practice it on anyone else. The bible says at one point that all sins are the same. If we are all sinners then we are all the same. Practicing hate on others and calling it religous freedom is all the more reason to have strong laws based on the constitution. This guy has also said he puts Catholics in the same group as gays. He is a perpetrator not a victim who wants to control access to resources based on religion. That's how the Middle East happened. Different language, different book, same hate damage to the economy.
Its not religion it's an expression of hate and bad for the economy. What you would like to see happen is what happens in some third world countries and is the process of excluding people who are different. If this becomes precedent you could not make a cake for a second marriage, couple who is already pregnant, a Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Jew, Muslim etc, and they don't have to make one for you. For people who claim to follow Jesus, there sure isn't the expression of love for all sinners and ignoring his words to get the log out of your own eye, not judging others etc. See when I see this behavior in contrast to his teaching it tells me its just another hateful person out for his own glory and seeking special privileges. Follow the constitution and keep religion out of government and we might get somewhere. Otherwise we are no different than the extremists in the Middle East. It doesn't matter what brand of religion you are. Self righteous perversion of scripture and claiming a religion doesn't make you more special than any other American and doesn't give you the right to practice your religion on other people. You are free to practice it on yourself only. If you don't think withholding resources from someone arbitrarily doesn't infringe on rights then we absolutely need to make it clear in the law. If someone were to not bake a cake for a hateful Christian extremist they would certainly be complaining about being a victim and many do all the time. BS. Nobody is elite because of their religious status. We aren't slaves to Christianity, that's a choice. We are slaves to corporations because somehow electing lying POS's and making laws to allow corporations and government to bleed us dry is a Christian thing to do. Hey, that's your vote and our lives though. This government keeps you free, the hysteria is your own doing. You sound delusional so it seemed I needed to be clearer.
oh I'm starting to get it. The "third world country" comments are supposed to make me out to be someone different that you can just discount and ignore. not that you really think Im from a 3rd world country. No I'm an American and I will promote any other American's right to buy a cake to celebrate whatever they want over someone who wants to pick and choose who gets to be happy. No sin is greater than another, dont judge, and treat others as you would like to be treated. That used to Christian when Christ did it. Sure businesses have. Read something with the truth in it before getting extremist and speaking in absolutes and fantasy.
Leviticus . Read it and come back to apologize for being that stupid..
Galen Warren Have read it. Lot of controlling ridiculous rules like sharia law. Is that what you would like to make America? Replace the constitution and law with Leviticus so you can practice religion on others? That's not freedom and its not American. Sounds like you'd enjoy the middle East. Is rather not have a few church leaders dictating what we all can do while they do it themselves. You run around calling people stupid? Yeah that's Christian. Its not about faith. Its about your need to hate others. Way to get out Jesus's message christian.
You obviously have reading comprehension issues.
I would of baked them a cake with no sugar in it.
His cakes don't look that great anyway
The government is not forcing you to do anything. Stop pretending to be a victim. lf you dont want to follow th aw then close the store.
there are many countries where it is illegal to be christian, why dont you go there and try pushing your agenda and see what happens . just be thankful for what rights you have here and stop bitching.
Saudi Arabia is one.
No Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.
No indigenous population of Christians. Bring your money, sure. Stay, no.
You're done. Go get some neosporin for that ass, and take a semantics course.
Hold strong!!!
I am not gay but I would not have bought from them to start with and why would they go to a Christian bake shop I don't buy from anything this Christian that's why I don't eat from Chick-fil-A or go to Hobby Lobby or any kind of Christian organization or run. By Christians I don't go to those type of businesses
Frankie Turner it’s not a Christian bake shop
he is just closed minded. I’m sure he hasn’t refused service for Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, etc. he just has a hang up on homosexuality as to most closet cases.
Bake the cake doesn't have too look good or taste good cant make you do that.!!!!!
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He could of tried that and risked his reputation as a quality cake baker or found the buyer suing him for a poorly made cake, a refusal to pay in full or a case of credit card fraud could have ensued.
If the bakers were black, then the government just decided that some black people have to do the bidding of some white people, and are punished it they don't. There is a name for that. So, what makes this case different? Only that the bakers are WHITE. Make no mistake, this isn't exemplary of a gay/straight conflict, this is the systematic bashing of white people, and you better wake up to it.
The thing is the bakeries owner wasn't black nor was the couple. Go back under the rock the KKK hides under.
So, if they were, the situation would be different by your rebuttal. The day will come when this preferential treatment for anyone who can worm themselves into the description of "protected class" comes to an end. Restaurants regularly enforce dress codes far beyond the State laws regarding lewd behavior or Indecent exposure. Clubs in LA reserve the right to limit entry to only "beautiful or exciting" people. Would anyone have a case? Only if they were a protected class member. It will end.
Sorry Cavuto you may visit there but he won't sell you a cake either :)
Really he tried to use interracial couples. That's buld around pure hate. This is religious beleifs
Funny how he serves women without head coverings
Against the bible but he don't care because people today only take what want to believe from the Bible
A book that has caused so much trouble these days and the past