Sire V5 vs V5R - Does Fingerboard Wood Actually Matter? - LowEndLobster Tone Shootout
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2023
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Hey Everyone! Today we're pitting the Sire siblings against one another in this tonewood tone shootout! We have our V5 and V5R, two great 70's style Jazz basses with only one key difference - the fingerboard wood. The V5 is rocking a full roasted maple neck and fingerboard while the V5R substitutes the maple board for a genuine rosewood board. How different will they sound? Let's find out!
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Surprisingly, I don't notice a significant difference between both basses. Thank you for this comparison.
I believe these actually have different pickups - the V5 has their Vintage-J set while the V5R has the Fat-J (according to Sweetwater anyway).
Based on Sire website. Same pickups. Both Vintage.
Oh I was waiting for this JUICY
You can play two completely identical basses, finish and all, from a manufacturer that will have slight differences in tone when compared side by side. So any perceived differences in tone between these two basses could be any number of factors and not necessarily limited to the finger board woods. To me they sounded nearly identical, not enough of a difference to make a difference either way.
Way too many people ignore setup, the strings’ distance from the pickup, in my experience, has an even more drastic effect on the tone than even switching the pickups
I love how these internet "rocket scientists" talk about how all of these minor factors can affect the tone of an instrument, but "It can't be the TONEwood"
Of course not....
FN hilarious!!
@309550176 "any perceived differences... could be a number of factors not limited to the fingerboard woods. To me they sounded nearly identical."
That statement, the one you initially made and are now trying to backtrack on, CLEARLY implies your belief that finger board wood has minimal/zero effect on the tone of a bass. Since one of my many degrees required several years advanced study of classic Western and classic Chinese literature I am fully capable of understanding the meaning of your, rather plebian, words. Being as you've already backtracked on your initial statement, thereby accepting the loss and conceding the point, I fully accept your admission that you're not a rocket scientist. I truly appreciate your candor.
To me, a reasonably erudite bassist with 35+ years experience, the tonal characteristics of the two basses in this video are indeed quite different.
"In a world of blind men, the one-eyed man is king."
@reneebear3641 this. When I use truss rod in my bass, it has a HUGE impact on tone. Comparisons are useless if guitars are not set up the same.
@@jomamma1750 You sound like just the pretentious type I'd sell an extra aged figured body wood to because it has more high mids and you'd hear it
Can't lose with either one. It really comes down to personal taste cosmetically speaking.
The one with the rosewood fingerboard does sound a little bit warmer. I don't really think the difference between them would be noticeable in a mix though.
A significant difference.V5 is brighter and V5R is darker :). Champagne look like a special color too.
Decided to listen to this video rather than watch it and I couldn't tell when you switched basses except for points where you switched pickup settings or playing style.
To my ear, I still say there is a slight brighter/snapiness to maple over the rosewood. Also fun side note - shortly after this video went live, Lobster entered the witness protection program for fear of complete chaos on throwing more fire on the tone wood debate lol. j/k nice video and good comparison between the two.
V5 is the best sounding for my taste ! Thank’s for a good video !
And finnaly of course you can hear a big differece !!!
best
B from Sweden
There's definitely a crispness to the maple one that I prefer, visually the maple one is more my bag too
As usual, I want what I can't have:
the neck pickup tone from the maple, & the bridge pickup tone from the rosewood!
The maple is clearly a brighter sound. Rosewood gives a little more bottom and a rounder sound
Thank you for doing this shootout. I have the maple one and thinking about trading it for the Rosewood version.
I can tell a subtle difference in the midrange and the maple is "zingier". But differences in setup can also make up for this.
Both great. Over the years I’ve gravitated towards maple🍁especially for slap, but… the the bridge pickup on the rosewood is just bit more classic jaco. In the end. Both!
At 3:07 there is a distinct difference between the two basses using just the bridge pickup. This could be attributed to many things but in that instance I like the rosewood fretboarded bass better.
Hallo there! My ear's impression is that V5R sounds with more clarity or crispness to say ... Were the strings of the same type and freshness? Now Lobster I'd like to share something that happened to my bass the last days... I live in Athens Greece where we had that heavy heatwave for 10 days with 40-44 degrees Celsius. I have a V3 jazz bass which I keep in a wardrobe. The bass had by the factory very good fretwork at the edges of the neck , but 2 days ago I realised that the frets had undergone heat expansion and now they prick the fingers slightly exceeding the rolled edge of the neck...😢 I hope that after a while when the temp drops they will shrink to their first length, but i am not so sure. At the same time the frets of a 26 year old fender strat that I keep in the same room remained in place. It has to be a matter of metal alloy used for the frets probably. Have you ever had any same incident? Thanks!
Humidity effects the wood, not the frets. Wood will expand and contract due to the Humidity in the air. It doesn't necessarily depend on temperature. Different woods expand and contract differently.
Hey Lobster. Love the comparison. I think the v5 with the maple neck , is a little more sizzle than the rosewood neck. Especially when you are slapping the bass. I have always been a fan of the maple net. I have the five string the five Maple net and I put a Audere Preamps on it. It sounds great. PEACE!!
Audere 👍🏻
Well, there definitely is some difference, however, it's rather slight. The maple one seems to have more pronounced highs, while rosewood sounds a bit more "old school" to me, with slightly more low mids. In general, I prefer maple, with one exception - I like the brigde pickup tone more on the rosewood one. However, there's one question - did both basses have equally fresh sets of strings? If the strings on the R were a bit older (or simply played more), that would explain the difference.
Both sound amazing. Maple sounds snappier and clearer in higher mids. Rosewood model doesn't sound so pronounced in the high mids but sounds more round in the lower mids.
the roasted maple neck/fingerboard Sires sound & feel amazing!
This would have been interesting as a blind test. You'd find that most people would not be able to tell much difference, much less point to a sound sample and say "oh that's rosewood" or whatever. Tonewood on electric instruments is a myth.
The biggest difference is colour. :) Thanks for this comparision.
Pickup height is going to be the biggest differentiator. To truly compare you would need to negate other variables like strings, age of strings, setup and pickup height all which can also cause differences in tone.
I hear a significant difference. Bright is brighter and dark is darker :)
Tone is in thehands and strings! The wood is all about the looks.
There is a little difference to the sound between the two basses, but you could even say the same about two identical basses. I personally feel that in this particular case, the V5 sounded a little bit more to my liking; the V5R was a tad more aggressive and brighter, but I think the sound of the V5 was kind of smoother and more tame, at least through this forum. I wonder how my opinion would change playing those basses here. It sounded a bit more like it’d be slightly higher priced, but I don’t know if you can expect that same result with every unit. They were close enough that without making a direct comparison, you’d be happy with either bass if you liked the look and playability of the bass you were holding. Also, I don’t think you mentioned when each of those basses were produced.. if they were produced around the same time or of one was a couple years older than the other ?!sometimes production runs make a difference too.
headstock shape is the most important thing with respects to tone
I think the V5 maple sounded brighter, but just slightly. I listened twice, the second time around I closed my eyes and when I thought it sounded warmer I opened my eyes and indeed you were playing the V5R. Thanks for the comparison, I'm sure a lot of people have wondered about the difference between the two.
I thought the maple sounded thinner and a little brittle, and the rosewood slightly fuller, with a more bell-like, clean sound. I like the sound and looks of the rosewood better, but they both sound almost the same. I saw a comment on here that Sweetwater has a different set of pick ups on one than the other. Could that be the case in your example?
According to Sire, both the V5 and V5R use the Marcus J-Revolution pickups. On another note, I have a V5 and swapped out the pickups with a set of Tom Brantley Geddy Lee pickups and I can't tell a difference between the 2 sets, both sets measure approximately 10k ohms and I think both use alnico 5 pole pieces. That's just to my ears, a technical analysis or a better set of ears could show/tell a difference.@@tracychappell2029
Are the pickups the same? On Thomann V5 description says Vintage J and the V5R Vintage Fat J. Of course the descriptions can be wrong.
You failed to control for paint!!!! Invalid shootout 😤😤😤
LOL
Thanks for Sharing Lobster 🦞🎶🎵🎸🇬🇧
I’ve heard that maple has slightly more “snap” but they were using a vintage bass with natural maple. Not sure if roasting it changes that or comes close to letting a bass neck/fingerboard age for 40-50 years.
The difference is there and what you’d expect. Most noticeable with pick or slapping.
As far as mixing is concerned, this is a big difference. It's these sorts of difference we obsess over. For a player who can't hear the difference I suggest chasing a feel or a look :)
Don’t forget that setup, fret height etc play a big role is how notes sound.
When will you post the review of the Bacchus WL33?
Definitely preferred the maple one, I'm surprised they sound that different!
The V5 had a more open top-end to my ears. Now whether that's due to the fingerboard or just normal variences in all the other components, who knows?
Hallo there, to my ear's impression the V5R sounds with somewhat more clarity or crispness to say. Were the strings of the same type and freshness? Now Lobster I'd like to share what happened to my bass the last days. I live in Athens Greece where we had that heavy heatwave for 10 days with 40-44 degrees Celsius... I have a V3 jazz bass, the fretwork at the edges of the neck was very good from the factory. I keep the bass in a wardrobe and 2 days ago I realised that the frets had undergone heat expansion and now they prick the fingers as they slightly exceed from the rolled edges of the neck...😢 I hope that after the temp drops they will shrink to their initial position, but i cannot be so sure ...At the same time I keep a 26 year old Fender strat in the same room whose frets didn't expand at all. I guess it has to be the metal alloy the frets are made of... Have you ever had a same incident? Thanks!!!
I'd usually say that the varying quality of the used wood, along with its weight, has a bigger impact than the type of wood. And that all the other factors, like construction, hardware, pickups and their placement, and strings of course, have a far bigger influence in sound. But the fingerboard should have the biggest influence on sound when it comes to wood type, more than the body wood. In this comparison, I could clearly hear what's rosewood and what's maple. These two basses could really serve as a great example for that sound difference of fingerboard wood. The rosewood bass sounded a little richer in the mids, with more even treble response, the maple one sounded a bit more aggressive, with a little scooped mids and a sharper treble edge. So I preferred the rosewood fingerboard for the most part, but for slapping, I preferred maple. And I usually prefer maple for the cool looks, but I like the feel of unfinished rosewood fingerboards.
I can hear subtle differences, but they are sufficiently similar that I would probably prioritise the feel over any sonic differences (this comment comes with the obvious caveat that YT may not capture every difference that you could hear in the room, or my PC and speakers may fail to transmit it). That leads to an inevitable question: did they feel significantly different to you?
I don't know if the fretboard wood has anything to do with it, but the midrange sounds a bit deeper on the P5R. It definitely comes out more with a pick or slapping, they're super close with fingerstyle playing.
V5-R wins. More pronounced and articulate, brighter and more robust (fatter) IMO. Both sound great though. Cool comparison. Love this channel!
The maple fretboard would need stainless steel frets as roasted maple fretboards crack and crumble when replacing the frets. Both are super cool sounding basses tough
I can hear a definite but subtle difference in pretty much all the configurations, but it seems like the kind of thing you could easily EQ around. Whether it's coming from the wood or subtle differences in the electronics (component values do vary after all!), who knows. I would at any rate buy the one I thought looked cooler.
Fun video as always, thanks lobster!!
Listening to this on a decent pair of studio monitors there are noticable differences. The rosewood bass has a lot more low mid, the maple bass sounds more scooped. Keep in mind before you jump to conclusions, listen to the comparison on a decent pair of studio monitors because anything else won't have a flat enough eq for a realistic reference.
I preferred the V5R; V5 maple was a little brighter, V5R rosewood sounded smoother. Some probably due to neck material, some to the standard variations between units of the same model.
Swapping the necks onto one body would have been the best test for consistency, although I appreciate that they may be loan instruments. Great vid.
The rosewood sound a little louder and fuller Could be a slight difference in the pickups.
Ok , but are they strung with the same strings and are this string exactly of the same age ?
I hear a slight difference, maybe the fretboard, maybe something else. I think we need to get into the weeds of Tone Paints in regards to the different finishes.
The maple neck was brighter and a little clearer sounding the expense of some of the roundness of the lower-end. The Rosewood neck had a warmer sound with a little thicker sounding bottom end at the expense of some of the brightness. I found the same thing to be true with my Fenders
Surprisingly I felt exactly the opposite: the rosewood neck was brighter and it's something I never expected...
I feel the difference (rosewood model is brighter on fingerstyle and it's something I never expected) but, since I do NOT believe in tonewood myth, it's important to know if the age of the stock strings was the same and/or the pickup height was exactly the same...
For me the V5R pickups have less lowend than V5 pickups...anyway...
V5
both pickups 2:07
neck 2:31
bridge 2:55
pick both 3:18
pick neck 3:40
pick bridge 4:01
slap both 4:23
slap neck 5:03
slap bridge 5:43
V5R
both pickups 2:19
neck 2:43
bridge 3:07
pick both 3:29
pick neck 3:50
pick bridge 4:12
slap both 4:43
slap neck 5:23
slap bridge 6:03
I don’t know if I’m imagining it, but the rosewood definitely didn’t sound as “ bright” as the other one 😂
Do a neck swap next video. Ghostbusters this and cross the streams😂
Honestly I don't find any difference in tone between the 2 woods, at all. But I do find a difference in feel; mainly because maple is usually varnished and rosewood is usually oiled. I prefer the feel of rosewood (ebony even better!) but it is not like it's a big difference anyway, so if maple looks better for a certain instrument, that's where I'm going!
I have the V5 and fret markers on the fretboard are painted.
Might as well get the maple one, if you want it to mellow out just turn the tone down a bit...if you want the rosewood to be snappier, you're out of luck
I have the same shirt!!! Best Cat Dad 😋
For me the difference is noticeable. That rosewood fretboard gives more bassy sound and brings out the signature jazz bass growl much better. The baple board sound less bassier and more zingy. Rosewood fretboard for me
Definitely a fuller sound from the v5r. Not sure if its the fingerboard alone. Every tree sounds different even if they are species of wood. Some are just natural denser or have more open pores. Alot of variables at play. Even the thickness of the paint finish will affect tone in the slightess as well
The biggest difference I noticed was the way both basses articulated the notes. The rosewood was more percussive sounding. The roasted was very nasally and clear.
It's quite difficult to explain for me. I expected a brighter sound on maple frets, as it should be, and with my great surprise the rosewood sounds crisper and clearer. I would say to try to give an idea of my thought, that the V5 maple has something 70s' in the rounding sound that I don't feel in the R, the R is clear, sharp, defined, most of all in fingerstyle, the maple V5 seems somehow remote, as it was sounding from the inside of a box. It's this "far" sound that really means what a bass was in the 70's. No doubt I prefer the personality of the maple one.
I have Sire V7, U5 and V5. No matter what I change or ajust in my Sire V5; even strings, bridge and pickups (now is Fender Samarium Cobalt) and take of the plate control removing Alfa native and put CTS elements to all. The tone is too low and need compensad on the amp. The roasted neck and the premium painting is beatilful, but I'm afraid that cost is too higth over this benefits!
I prefer the look & tone of V5R. I don't think any was different because of fretboard wood, but maybe their respective weights of wood (even if same species), which has more of an effect overall. I've built a number of guitars & basses, using everything from Alder, Ash, mahogany, Cherry, walnut, etc. Could have the same woods but end with a different weight altogether when the guitar/bass body was done all its wood working & painted.
My preference lies with the V5R, purely on looks, somehow sounded bigger/fuller vs the V5 which i felt had a bit more sparkle to its top end.All is subjective really, i am listening through Hs5 monitors
Pls review the P5R version
They sounded the same to me. At least they sounded good.😊
All of the differences I hear come down to the R being ever so slightly louder. Maybe a different revision of preamp, maybe luck of the electronic draw.
Agreed. Honestly the only thing I could really grab onto here was that the neck pickup on the V5R was a bit hotter. As far as differences between the woods…I don’t think this changes anyone’s mind. If you think there’s a difference, you’ll hear it wether it’s truly there or not.
It would be even more interesting to hear a comparison between the fretless versions of these same basses. I would expect a more pronounced difference.
Different sound, really. Most surely you can't notice it in a band mix. But there's something different in the EQ curve. The test would be complete if you interchange the necks with each other and repeat the comparison. Then, also, the champagne one, will reminds me a bit of the great Norman Watt-Roy.
Maybe I'm crazy, to me the difference is feel, I like the way maple feels, not to say ebony or others aren't better. But I like Maple over Rosewood.
As it was stated by many of us.... Maple is brighter while more gulf, Rosewood is warmer , more balanced ''obviously, BUT we don't know if the differences fully caused by the fingerboard
This is an almost impossible comparison because chaos. But between these 2 basses, the only perceptible difference I hear is the slap tone, and I do hear a difference there. So if you're not playing slap, no difference. But if you're not playing slap ... wth are you doing? ;)
Pretty much identical
In a sonically pristine room with excellent recording techniques, MAYBE some difference could be heard. But that difference? Is it the fretboard woods? Or the wind of those specific pickups? Or the variance of those specific potentiometers? Or the inherent qualities of the randomness of every wood body and every wood neck (independent of fretboard material!!!) and in weight, density, resonance, grain?
In the “does fretboard material matter?” Popcorn-chomping debacle, people who believe fretboard material matters usually give way too much credence to the idea that fretboard material is singularly creating a barely perceptible difference in sound, while usually ignoring all the remaining variables, and mistakenly assuming those variables are constants.
The ONLY way to scientifically settle the “debate” through setting up ONE sole variable, and controlling EVERY other aspect as a constant. And what that means here, is to take either of these basses, and professionally remove/install/reinstall the fretboard (both the maple and the rosewood) to only ONE bass. And then rigorously record and play the same bass with different fretboards with ALL the same settings, lines played and at as close as possible to plucking strength with both hands in the same places as possible for as much as possible, and then…. The “does fretboard wood matter” debacle can be more likely to be put to rest.
But NOBODY is going to do that, and spend that kind of time with that kind of rigor and process, so…
But a fun listen, Lobster. The debate shall rage on. Thanks!
Softer wood on the fretboard gives a little warmer sound to my ear.
To my taste rosewood sounds better with one either pickup while maple with both
Since both fingerboards have a different finish (lacquer for the maple vs natural for the rosewood), I believe it’s more about how the fingerboard feels under your fingers.
Which one would you prefer regarding the feeling ?
What did you think? I watch video 3 times to get your thoughts on which fingerboard you liked better. 😢l
I could barely notice any difference. At that point I think visual aesthetic preference would be the most important factor when deciding.
So we're doing the "tonewood" thing for.......fingerboards?
Bwahahahaaa 😂
I definitely can tell on some basses, but these sound identical.
I can’t detect any tonal difference. But, and this is just my opinion, switch out the necks and both would look more esthetically pleasing.
Every video I've seen do this confirms Maple is "brighter" & Rosewood is "warmer", but I think the test should be done on multiple of each to control variances between basses of same specs.
Psychoacoustics. I also perceive maple as brigher, but only because of its lighter color.
Weight.? For both
It's in the video
Maple fingerboard is better for slapping, and rosewood for fingerstyle.
Usually as a rule; rosewood sounds warmer than maple but I really didn’t notice any difference in sound and tone. The electronics definitely sounds great for passive mode.😌🎶👍🏾
The V5 is brighter. The V5R is warmer. I prefer the V5R, and I'm not saying it as a V5R owner.
There was an ever so slight difference; but not enough to get all unnecessary about.
Rosewood always gives a little more low mids. No difference on this occasion too.
The second one definitely has more pronounced mids, the first one is more "scooped".
There are many reasons they could sound different other than the different finger boards. That said, I can' tell much difference.
I don’t get the Billy Corgan reference.
He believes the color of the paint impacts tone heh
I wish these "tonewood" comparisons would be done blind, with the bass not being shown or described, simply labelled as Bass 1 and Bass 2. Too many people listen with their eyes and think that because they can see a difference, they must also be hearing a difference.
Well the rosewood definitely sounds.......no clue - sorry - great comparison but not even hearing a difference when hearing on the old school hifi - both great basses
Maple is a snappier wood
From where I'm sitting, there is definitely a fatter tone coming from the rosewood board.
Estoy de acuerdo
Maple neck basses always seem to be brighter when slapped like a dirty B
Subtle but noticable difference. Which one sounds better is an exercise for the listener. My feeling is the difference is so subtle that once you add some eq and are in a real world situation playing with a band, that subtlety will be buried. Therefore I'll pick the rosewood because I like how it looks better.
The minor differences has to do with the electronic side of these electric instruments… not the wood in the fingerboard. Since the sound is generated via a metal string vibrating in a magnetic field, small differences in the PU’s, pots, strings, set-up will have an impact. All you ”tone wooders”; Please inform me, how any of these components would perform differently due to the wood in the fingerboard! The wood in an instrument will (or may) however have an effect on its accoustic properties, its resonance and so on. That may be felt in your fingers, hands and body an might have an impact on how you play the instrument (or it feels/sounds to you as a player). That may have an effect on the overall sound that the listener hears, but it is NOT due to the material in the body, neck or fingerboard. To make a comparison; would a car accelarate or sound different depending on the material in the sole in the shoe on your foot on the gas pedal?
I know that this is not a perfect comparison, but it will exemplify things 😉
Maybe a better comparison is that two professional drummers (in a blind folded test) could not make out if the snare they played was made out of wood or metal. And this in an accoustic instrument!! And by the way, they got it wrong even though the (under contract) played the models in the ”test”…