Trump vs. Starmer: the end of the "special relationship"? | The New Statesman podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 เม.ย. 2024
- If Keir Starmer becomes prime minister of the UK and Donald Trump is re-elected president, what does that mean for UK-US relations?
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Alistair Cooke, back in the 70s or 80s in one of his Letters From America said the "special" relationship was a one-sided thing, perceived only by the UK. It's a fallacy and always has been.
Nothing special about that relationship anymore...
Never was. A Churchhill dream.....nothing more but the Tory party had free lunches for the last sixty years!
Anymore?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Maybe, but the West generally needs a strong America .
It’s time this one sided relationship ended.
What a smart cookie you are Tony.
Was just about to say the same thing!
ahh yes, because the UK needs more of an issue with it's economy.
@@AF2277Strade with the US is minor
What special relationship???😂
I mean, do you actually need somebody to explain that to you?
@@ineedmoreflavour1955 I do, explain away.
One of the biggest lies ,there never as been a special relationship, complete cobblers
Evidence?
@@ineedmoreflavour1955 You're that person who has to say something even though he has nothing to say. You are, aren't you? Let's try it the other way around. Where's your evidence that there ever was a special relationship?
It really refers to the intelligence cooperation begun in WW2, which still exists.
@@RobBCactive If you're talking about intelligence then you have to include Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Nobody refers to those countries in the same way because that isn't what they mean by "special relationship." There is a special relationship when it comes to intelligence sharing and defence, but that is also true for the UK and many other countries, and that is where it ends. The US has a more special relationship with Ireland than with the United Kingdom.
@@gio-oz8gf We pay far less tax to invest in the US stock market. They defend the UK abroad, interchange with our military in outposts, we call on each other's special forces in different situations. We also speak the same first language, which is quite a big deal still. This world is global now, that's just reality whether we would have voted for it or not, and the US is vital to any country that wants a place in the future. Whether you care this way or that way, the US is still the strongest economic power in the world and the UK should be a part of that, considering we invented the system which allowed for it.
The special relationship is like someone trying to appease a bully. It's the UK begging for a relationship. We are European and the sooner we put the Trump loving Tories and brexiters back in their box and rejoin our closest allies and neighbors the better. I am married to and American and do business with a lot of Americans and I can tell you the relationship is one way unless the Americans need another county to back them up in a lie then and only then do they call on the UK.
Yes, but It really refers to the intelligence cooperation begun in WW2, which still exists.
Hope you're not including your marriage in those one sided relationships
@@RobBCactivesince Kim Philby even that’s quite restrictive
The 'Special Relationship' stopped being anything other than a convenient myth when Atlee and Truman were in office.
What relationship is that?
It doesn't exist.
What relationship? The facts have been telling us for a LONG time that we are just a small pawn in their hands (Tony for example) and we have been humiliated by them many times before and since. When it comes to personal relationships, it was a good one between Margaret and Ronald, but what a showdown when Trump was/is involved. We will continue to be pragmatic and our security will work with them, we know it is above those personal humiliating relationships.
Tony Blair was George W Bush's "poodle"....
@@olaflieser3812 Our special relationship.
*Terrific analysis Freddie!* 👍😎🍺
It's only 'special' to the UK. We are simply a close ally to the United States, and I'm comfortable with that. After all we are supposed to be grown-ups and realists.
How much longer will we refer to the Special Relationship?There's not one.
I certainly hope so.
We can only hope so. Look what happened to the last Labour leader who did a US President's bidding.
I was very much against the UK going into Iraq, but I hope that by being involved we restrained the Americans from their Shock & Awe style carnage and generally kept them within International Law.
Their soldiers had been told that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and I dread to think what the civilian casualty count would have been like if they had gone in alone.
It's always always always been a one way love affair.
The Special relationship? We get war debt, Germany gets the Marshal plan.
Define American? As American states are wildly different to each other, in terms of their outlooks and culture, we probably have a special relationship with some Americans, but definitely not the majority of them.
Woah. That's one of the most informed comments I've ever seen a Brit make here on America! I mean this as a compliment.
Special relationship 😂😂😂, only we think it's 'special'
There is no special relationship!
The special relationship where we do what we are told in exchange for the privilege of involving ourselves in endless forever wars. Yay.
Just want to point out the UK cannot made individual trade deals with each individual state in the US as trade deals are handled on a federal level not the state level so there is not point pushing this talking point
Ha, True.
Lammy's description is 100% accurate.
What special relationship.?I remember the trade talks with the US we weren't treated in any way special.... I'd class our relationship as we're the little poodle
Look if Trump is elected regardless of if it's a Labour or Tories in government they will do whatever they need to do to keep Trump on side. They will try to explain in more moderate Trump's positions and they'll be rowing back or disassociating themselves from any past criticism
The special relationship! Haven't even bothered watching this one.
One question I haven't seen and would like to see answered is: even if the PO Horizon data could be manipulated through the 'back door', why & who actually accessed the data and where did that money go?
Good question. As I understand it, the money retrieved from various postmasters actually went into the PO coffers. The "phantom" losses? I don't seriously expect anyone from the PO to put their hands up, let alone start an investigation. As for the who and why, the first logical port of call would be to ask Fujitsu.
Marcus Brigstocke attributed the special relationship to our not wanting to learn French.
Vraiment?
Trade agreements don't exist between individual US states and other countries. That is the purview strictly of the Federal level of government through the Commerce Clause. So no, the UK government isn't going to pursue trade agreements with states, letters of intent, or whatever they are, aren't real agreements to do anything outside of the agreement established by Congress.
David Lammy won’t say a word about trump once he’s foreign secretary. Absolutely zero conviction
There is no special relationship
Starmer completely reversed everything he stood for Labour leader on, so i don't think he'll have any qualms at all about reversing his approach to Trump. The main issue in their relationship would be whether Trump will forgive and forget.
Nice Mario cosplay
What special relationship? We don't even have a trade deal.
NATO and Europe needs to “step up “ its support of Ukraine with or without America. We are burying our heads in the sand if we imagine it will all conveniently go away when this war is over.
It doesn't matter who the PM is. There is only a one way relationship and if Trump becomes President again he only has a special relationship with himself.
There never was a special relationship
‘Special relationship’.. We’ve been in ‘special measures’ since this relationship started and regardless of whoever wins the US and UK elections, we’ll probably still take our lead from the US. Just hope Starmer manages to stand up to Trumps’ nonsense if he gets elected.
Don’t hold your breath on Starmer standing for anything
He’s the flip flop king
Special relationship, what a load of bollocks. I’m your bestest friend ever, ever. Let’s go on the bouncy castle!
Special relationship. America gives it, Britain takes it.
What special relationship. Tories screwed that with Brexit and irlands lost relationship
It's likely more accurate to say Brexit did more harm to the alleged special relationship than whomever is in charge on either side. As an American I'm often surprised at how ignorant both sides can be regarding how each system works. From the US side it's simply a matter of indifference. How the UK works really makes little difference as it's a question of usefulness. While the UK was a member of the EU and Common Market they were very useful to the US. Now? Not so much. Kemi Badenoch can yammer on about trade agreements with various US states as if that's a thing(spoiler alert: it isn't)(all trade deals are approved through Congress at the federal level). So would Trump in office simultaneously with Starmer make any difference? Unlikely. Biden would likely be more open to dealing with Starmer, though. The UK is increasingly irrelevant to US interests.
Peak centrist stuff from the NS there
A trump election would end for the United States special relationship with the western world not just the United Kingdom. The special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom ended with Brexit.
Brexit made us losers in American eyes.
Just Western Europe.
The thought that trump wants to work with Starmer makes me reassess my vote for the Labour Party if they confirm they are happily willing to work with trump…..Trump not the USA, just hope the man doesn’t win!
Unlike the Bush-Blair love affair, this prospect goes beyond different parties. Every western democracy will cool its US relationship in the event of another Trump term.
That sounds wonderful to an American!
The special relationship should have been buried with Churchill in January 1965. He had a special personal relationship with the US and there is still a big Churchill fan club over there which includes movies and TV movies about him.Otherwise it is a rather embarrassing myth which makes us look pathetic.
Charles de Gaulle was always more intelligent and realistic on the subject of transatlantic relations. He made sure that the French strategic nuclear force was entirely French, and he would have no American bases on French soil.
By the way, since Nigel Farage proclaims his "loyalty to Donald Trump" how can he be understood as a British nationalist?
I have never considered Trumpy to be a politician.
France should be our closest ally. In fact the idea of a "special relationship" with France makes much more sense than one with the US. The Entente was a much healthier arrangement than this disgusting dependency we have on the US.
Frogs.
Well Trump did lovingly grasp Theresa May's hand - if that's not indicative of the famed special relationship I don't know what is! 😝 😝 😝
There is no such thing as a "special relationship" and there never has been
Neither one has a backbone or principles they are willing to stand up for. Both just say what they think will make them popular enough to get power, they'll get along fine.
Erm. No, it won't. You can disagree politically, but still have a good relationship. Hard to believe in 2024 I know.
the the special relationship is and always has been in the heads of UK politicians only
What relationship?
What special relationship?
Who would want a special relationship with Trump?
Not even his wife.
@@alanwatterson2850 Good one.
@@alanwatterson2850 which one?
@6:26 those MoUs with individual US states are pretty ropey - hardly worth the paper they're written on !
What special relationship?
How special can a relationship be if only one side is constantly talking about it ?
Come on let’s be real, we are just their dog and we will do what we’re told. Trump got annoyed by these comments but he won’t get rid of his main foothold in Europe, and our government have no choice but to cooperate.
The thought of another 4 years of Trump is thoroughly depressing. If it happens and Starmer (as expected) becomes PM then it’s likely that the age-old ‘special relationship’ will end. That’s about the only silver lining to the dark cloud that hangs over World peace. To be honest, it’s long overdue. The more I look at the state of the USA today, the more I wish we’d stayed in the EU.
Would you prefer Biden?
Agreements with individual states? Get a grip, man - there’s no such thing 🤷♂️
When David lammy reaches the position he's in you know the country is fucked. You have to vote reform it's the only hope.
What “Special Relationship “ ? It’s a fallacy.
The one where the UK *currently* allows US early warning systems, missile defence, listening posts and bases on UK sovereign territory.
@@MkVenner1975 Is that the one where British citizens can be extradited to the US but the US does not reciprocate ? As for the military systems on U.K. soil, let’s face it is for the defence of the US , as much as the U.K. “sovereign territory “.
Then we have the spectre of a raving lunatic as US President in the form of Trump.
@@MkVenner1975 It’s that special that U.K. citizens can be extradited from UK sovereign territory, but the reverse does not exist. Admit it , the relationship you describe, is to defend the US first and foremost.
@@californiadreamin8423it is one way yes.
There's no such thing as a "global south." 15% of the population live below the equator which includes rich countries like Australia, South Africa, Argentina. The errors in these talks get a little irritating.
Lol, so true.
trump is not the least bit interested in diplomacy or any putative "special relationship".
Moronic question. The US -UK relationship isn't about party politics. Remember Bush-Blair? Next!
Id like a follow up on Xi Jinping, he makes Trump look like an angle. It feels like it's chasing trends over moral views.
No starmer will do as hes told by the usa hes a good poodle
Forgotten Sunak's US passport already? Just like you've forgotten commas
American cant even move to UK freely
A Trump win will spell the end to all relationships.
Exactly. The world's sympathy for the US was good for one Trump term only.
@@danmayberry1185 Not even. I think it lasted until his address to the UN, when he had them rolling in the aisles.😅
@alanwatterson2850 that was a good speech. One of his best was at the WEF though.
Also Eastern Europe and the reat of the world doesn't even like Western Europe. You're who's outnumbered.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 So a good speech is when the world is laughing in derision and disbelief? BTW there's not much left of Eastern Europe that hasn't joined the EU. If he rest of the world doesn't like W Europe why is it always flooded with tourists?
@@alanwatterson2850 They talk bad about you behind your back all the time. You're a nice novel to look at though. The history and other sights are nice to look at. Just while ignoring the people.
I’m fairly certain that relationship is with the Irish people.
Is this a serious question? Have you seen Trump lately. I give up.
Trump should win then as a F you to the UK.
Work with Europe
*Eastern Europe
The latest news from Donald Trump is somewhat surprising: He is getting more pragmatic and trying to become a politician in the positive sense.
The abortion theme (a biggie in the US) as well as the Ukraine topic brought some surprising statements: Trump wants the middle ground in both of them. I've read that multiple times on policial sites that are not overly partisan such as Politico.
- Trump supports easing the most stringent abortion restrictions (as they are deeply unpopular)
- Trump might support US House speaker Johnson in getting an Ukraine package through (!)
Conversely, a Labour politician that hurled insult after insult on Donald Trump and now wants to be the *foreign secretary* (of all UK government posts) will have some back pedaling to do if he wants to deal effectively with the most powerful western country (should the Orange Haired Man win)...
He did say that and the very next day Arizona reinstated a law from 1864. That’s what happens when you hand it back to the states to decide.Fortunately there are numerous clips of him bragging about doing away with roe v wade for the Democrats to play on a loop in the run up to the next election. Ditto his sycophants like Kari Lake. Now they are frantically trying to back pedal, Lake even calling on the Democrat Katie Hobbs to try and intervene. They’re twisting themselves into pretzels over it. They now know it’s a massive vote loser. Biden was ahead by 4 points and that was before the 1864 law was re instated. The next polls will highlight just what an issue this is at the next election.
If you think this election version of Trump is the version we’ll actually get in the White House, you’re a sucker.
@olaflieser3812 Trump said he will be a dictator on day one.
@@carlharding5311 You can call me what you like - that is about you not me then.
Before 2016 Trump was the obnoxious lowly person during the campaign that he was as the president. The same. Now you frame it like he is gonna be the opposite of what he is now, once he is in office. There is no merit in seeing everything just black and white.
Also, the professionals at the top of western govts will have to be pragmatic to get things done - and they will, including working well with Donald Trump. That's what they are paid for, not for ranting. So, again, Labour politiians will have some pack pedaling to do. And they will.
@@carlharding5311 Hard not to disagree. Trumpy might actually be listening to advisers to try and secure more votes. But he'll be back to his authortarian instincts come Jan '25.
Starmer wont ever be PM
There is no special relationship between the usa and little britain
I do wish my fellow Brits would stop talking about "the special relationship." It sounds needy and is bloody embarrassing. You are talking about Americans; for God's sake, have you ever observed them?
Is that the relationship where friend B does exactly what friend A wants friend B to do. That'a very special relationship indeed.
In international affairs there's no such thing as special relationships, only interests.
Trump should be treated as a persona non grata.
Labour should end the relationship on Day One..
Otherwise Britain will be treated as a doormat.by Trump
"Would a Trump and Starmer win end the special relationship?" Henry Kissinger once said that "America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests".
Starmer will destroy a lot of things. Edit: British stability, civil liberty, and the economy for a start. FAR worse than Tories. Labour aren't destroying the Tories - they're doing that themselves with a big hand from Reform. But Labour will be worse than anything you've seen over the past few years.
Starting with Tory donors - can't wait
Peculiar comment 🤡
Priority number one : the Conservative Party. Forever preferably.
Hopefully the British idea of " Global britain", a contradiction in terms!
@@jeremymanson1781 peculiar that anyone has the ignorance to stand for Labour.
Utter tripe
There is no special relationship