Brent Spiner should have won an emmy for this episode. Playing three different characters who simultaneously interacted with each other on screen is a monumental acting feat.
@@linkfan160 It is true. You can watch videos on TH-cam, where Spiner Is getting makeup for Soong, and it's in the final in titles. Brent Spiner really played all three characters. You could just listen to the voices ;-)
I'd love to know where Lore went wrong. Was it growing up with no comparable friends, a being with superhuman abilities but no emotional maturity or understanding of why people rejected him. Is that why Soong made Data with no emotions, so he could learn social skills and morals without emotions sending him haywire.
This one episode is when Lore's humanity shines through; I wish the writers had done more to explore that side of him. He basically returns to his previous incarnation from "Datalore", two years later in "Descent".
@@ColorShowWonderlamp Lore was the Frankenstein's monster to Data's Pinocchio. Even if he wanted to be seen as a person, humanity treated him like an abomination, and he decided to essentially become the very thing the humans forced him to be. Data was EXTREMELY lucky in that the majority of people he encountered actually saw him as an equal......Lore was never seen as equal to anyone, and seeing Data more or less happy really burned his gears.
The difference between Data and Lore is incredible. just from they way they hold each other, or their neutral faces. lore almost never stays still, his face cycles through emotions, often with a smirk, whereas data is conserved, and moves careful and precisely, with intent and purpose. it's a brilliant piece of acting
When I first saw the episodes with Lore, I thought that Brent Spiner really did have an identical twin brother would could act as well as him. It would have been more convenient if he did. We could have seen more episode with Lore as a recurring villain.
I think Lore getting upset when he heard his father was dying was legit. He _does_ go on to kill him later in the episode, but it's in an emotional outburst, not so much some calculated move, plus who knows if the emotion chip fucked him up even more.
@@jamieSp69 Well, that's technically manslaughter. Lore probably didn't intend to murder Soong and lashed out at him out of anger but forgets that his father is a fragile old man and even a minor fall or spill could kill him.
You can see it a lot in strong love/hate relationships especially with family. A person will simultaneously rant at and abuse a person, while also defending them harshly against any third party that tries to abuse them the same way.
2:40 Lore's disbelief and denial always got me. He really was intending to just leave without another thought but the idea of Soong dying was too much for him to ignore.
@@austinboylan5476 No, he had no reason to. He was about to leave after all. He has emotions, just like us, and Soong is his father, so he probably loved Soong.
Lore is not evil, he’s just very immature. He is broken. (He says himself in the episode that you could have fixed me.) Other then being broken he lacks the experience with how to deal with people and people who cared about him. Data had spent years with people who generally care for him. While Lore has spent most of his life disassembled or being feared by the colonist. (Because he is practically a child with superhuman intelligence, speed, and strength) I believe he was actually upset that the Doctor was dying, because his father is probably the only one who has ever cared for him.
@@davidhelmer9124 Except... he's the reason that the colony where he was created was wiped out. Yeah, not sure WHY, but he disabled the shields that could have protected the colony from the Crystalline Entity.
@@marhawkman303 you got to see that he was childish though and the colonists hated him. He made a decision that was immature. Hoping to escape the colony that wanted him taken apart
Although he is 70 years old when he dies will know doubt be given the rank of "master actor" To play 3 different characters at once simultaneously each with different personalities is an incredibly difficult thing to do. supurb achievement! And is worthy of emmy and a Oscar it takes a very high degree of intelligence and to pull it off on camera Brent if you do see my comment here You are a magician! Mad respect to you
When I first saw this episode, I thought that Brent actually did have an identical twin brother who could act as well as him. It would have been a lot more convenient if that were the case. I think they should have found another older actor to play Soong so that Brent wouldn't have to work so hard. I'm sure they had the budget to do so.
I feel for Lore here. He obviously cares about his father... but he has been hurt so much by whatever happened to him in the past that he can't trust anybody.
I see Brent channeled some Jimmy Stewart for Soong. I wonder how many hours of makeup he had to go through for Soong. The end of this episode made me cry, Data had just found his father, had a chance to feel emotions, Lore took that away, and then he had to say goodbye to his father. The line that really got me was when Data said he couldn't grieve for the Dr. and he replied Data would in his own way.
@@thedirtinyoureye2133 Honestly, I don't understand why they couldn't find another actor to play Soong. I understand that Brent had to play Lore as well since he didn't actually have an identical twin brother but there was really no reason for him to play Dr. Soong too.
The son that looks like a human and acts like a sly demon. I have mixed feelings about Lore. He was the douchest asshole, a being full of bad attitude and daddy issues. But still, under all that built up hidden hate and anger, he still cares about his father. Clearly shown here. It makes me feel sorry for him, that he seems to feel betrayed by his family. Kinda makes me want to hug him and say you're not alone.
I know, its not fair, I wish they had more episodes with Lore. His whole life was one tragedy after another. I suppose thats why I love him so much, Its not that hard for a human to pass into heart numbing insanity after a certain point hits them hard enough. Just think about what it could to do to Lore? I love Data of course, he's just..so goddamn adorable. But Lore is just that dark kind of love that you hate to say you love it.
This episode shows exactly why Brent Spiner is such a great actor. Playing 3 different characters, each very distinct. Lore is bitter because he was the defective one, but he still cares about his father. Data is so innocent and we all fall for him because he is vulnerable in his own ways.
I found myself attracted to Lore in this episode because he was hurt over being abandoned and hated. I seem to fall for the loners and vulnerable characters that are hurting in some way.
Sarah Kinsey Completely agree. I really, really felt bad for him. He really was hurt, and is always good at hiding it until like the last second. Then you see a small glimpse of the pain he feels and then it's back to covering it up, ether by killing people. or being pissed off. his whole story is fucking sad. And I wish the writers would have added more stuff about Lore because he's the one character that even though a side character, is a very interesting one. And it pisses me off that he's a side character because his story is main character worthy.
Anyone else getting some heavy Liquid Snake vibes from Lore when he says Dear Brother? Hell, Data and Lore have the whole thing of Solid and Liquid snake going on. Clones of their father created to surpass him, one is evil and the other good
Its funny that Dr Soong says that Lore isnt the maniac Data made him, but a bit later, he tells Lore he had no idea he had been reactivated....... This episode is still great
He was probably referring to Lore back on Omicron Theta. It seems to me that what really set Lore off in DataLore was Data telling him that he has loyalty only to Starfleet. There is a moment when Lore offers to help Data become more human that he looks hopeful, only for Data to crush that into paste. Data always tends to say the wrong thing, and unfortunately Lore tends to assume the worst in everyone. It was an event that could have been avoided.
1:05 I swore I saw data do a Spock eyebrow raise.😁 And in 2:47 loore must had a moment of human emotion,He admit his father was dying. Just like what people do in real life.I almost have sympathy for loore. So sad. 😢
@Ronald McDonald Unfortunately, the emotions were too much for him and they drove him insane. There was a summary online of a possible redemption episode for Lore that describes how he feels emotions; basically, imagine a crowd of people, but in one mind and body. So if a mob of people was raging, all that would be what he feels when he gets angry, or grief and sorrow would be so deep that it would make him suicidal. Unlike Data, who was allowed to develop before he was given emotions, Lore was slammed by them the moment he first woke up on Omicron Theta. He never really had a chance.
@Ronald McDonald Data has emotions too, but in him they have been toned down to the point of vaguely being noticed unless you know what to look for. I used to surpress my emotions (I don't anymore I've learned to deal with them better so I no longer have to), so I'm able to detect almost every single emotional experience that Data has had throughout the Star Trek: The Next Generation series.
I think it’s implied that lore’s got emotions (he’s very scornful) but he stole the emotion chip in order to ’fix’ his emotions because he’s aware that that’s what’s wrong with him
i've always loved the play on Data and Lore's names... its sublte but fun.... you can always trust the "Data", but you should always Question the "Lore"
‘He’ll obey me, he always did’ Maybe before he watched you recreate him inch per inch excluding only his flaws and then taking him apart because fixing what’s wrong with him didn’t seem worthwhile to you, gosh dang. Anyways, congratulations soong you’re the first man ever to give an Android daddy issues
As they were able to have 3 Brent Spiners on screen together here, it's a pity they couldn't somehow do the same with Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun and Brunt in DS9. Along with other Star Trek roles he played. Imagine how it would've been if there had been a bunch of Combs interacting on screen together.
Loved this scene so much. Lore is just a tortured, confused soul corrupted by some faulty programming making him unstable and psychopathic. To me he really does love his father and his brother. All I wish is Dr. Soong at some point would’ve said “I love you, my sons”
I dont think lore cared about soong dying he was "supposed to" because of his emotional programming. Soong tells lore right away that its not a trick but im betting soong knew it would cause lore to stay. Then lore literally kills him later which proves the point.
Soong looks dumb in this episode. There's no way he wouldn't know the difference between Lore and Data when he was installing a chip in one of them, that's like Steve Wozniak being shown an Apple I instead of an Apple II. Also he brings Lore back thinking Lore will just do what he wants, he should've just said "I need to talk to you both," as his reason.
Aaaand thanks to Dr. Soong's carelessness, Data lost out on getting emotions. And we got the events of Descent, and an outpost full of dead people. Good job!
“Can’t do cerebral Trek in 2023 blah blah blah”. If you can’t do stuff this good gtfo. SO MUCH packed into this one little scene that the hacks spewing episodes today couldn’t even grasp let alone duplicate or master.
Brent Spiner should have won an emmy for this episode. Playing three different characters who simultaneously interacted with each other on screen is a monumental acting feat.
Holy crap. I knew he played both Data and Lore but not all three of them.
@@linkfan160 It is true. You can watch videos on TH-cam, where Spiner Is getting makeup for Soong, and it's in the final in titles. Brent Spiner really played all three characters. You could just listen to the voices ;-)
I'd love to know where Lore went wrong. Was it growing up with no comparable friends, a being with superhuman abilities but no emotional maturity or understanding of why people rejected him. Is that why Soong made Data with no emotions, so he could learn social skills and morals without emotions sending him haywire.
Absolutely
Pity they couldn't have done something similar with Jeffrey Combs as he portrayed Weyoun and Brunt in DS9 as well as other Star Trek roles.
Brent Spiner reports crippling back pain after carrying entire Star Trek TNG series on his back.
In this case, THREE times over.
Well his last name is Spiner......as in spine.
So true.
That's the most laughable comment I've ever read about Star Trek 😆. And not to mention it's a lie.
I love this comment
3 versions of Brent Spiner on screen...exquisite.
This one episode is when Lore's humanity shines through; I wish the writers had done more to explore that side of him. He basically returns to his previous incarnation from "Datalore", two years later in "Descent".
Moviefan2k4 Only to be undone when he kills his father in this episode.
Lore often felt misunderstood. I have compassion for him.
@@ColorShowWonderlamp Lore was the Frankenstein's monster to Data's Pinocchio. Even if he wanted to be seen as a person, humanity treated him like an abomination, and he decided to essentially become the very thing the humans forced him to be. Data was EXTREMELY lucky in that the majority of people he encountered actually saw him as an equal......Lore was never seen as equal to anyone, and seeing Data more or less happy really burned his gears.
Yes exactly. That's exactly how I feel about it. You speak to me from the soul. Yes yes.
@@ColorShowWonderlamp Me too
He isnt really responsible for what he was
That first "You look fine" splits my heart
I definitely agree!!!
The difference between Data and Lore is incredible. just from they way they hold each other, or their neutral faces. lore almost never stays still, his face cycles through emotions, often with a smirk, whereas data is conserved, and moves careful and precisely, with intent and purpose. it's a brilliant piece of acting
When I first saw the episodes with Lore, I thought that Brent Spiner really did have an identical twin brother would could act as well as him. It would have been more convenient if he did. We could have seen more episode with Lore as a recurring villain.
I think Lore getting upset when he heard his father was dying was legit. He _does_ go on to kill him later in the episode, but it's in an emotional outburst, not so much some calculated move, plus who knows if the emotion chip fucked him up even more.
He looked like he was going to cry 🥺
He didn't kill him, he tossed him. He didn't intend for Soong to die.
@@jamieSp69 Well, that's technically manslaughter. Lore probably didn't intend to murder Soong and lashed out at him out of anger but forgets that his father is a fragile old man and even a minor fall or spill could kill him.
You can see it a lot in strong love/hate relationships especially with family. A person will simultaneously rant at and abuse a person, while also defending them harshly against any third party that tries to abuse them the same way.
2:40 Lore's disbelief and denial always got me. He really was intending to just leave without another thought but the idea of Soong dying was too much for him to ignore.
Because Lore, for all his contempt....he loved his father.
@TrekkieAlex Pretty ironic considering that Lore eventually ended up murdering Dr. Soong. He was also jealous of Data and wanted to kill him too.
All his faults and Lore still cared for good old Doctor Soong.
Derric Greene Or he was manipulating Soong and Data so they'd lower their guard (similar to how he acted in Datalore).
@@austinboylan5476 No, he had no reason to. He was about to leave after all. He has emotions, just like us, and Soong is his father, so he probably loved Soong.
Lore is not evil, he’s just very immature. He is broken. (He says himself in the episode that you could have fixed me.) Other then being broken he lacks the experience with how to deal with people and people who cared about him. Data had spent years with people who generally care for him. While Lore has spent most of his life disassembled or being feared by the colonist. (Because he is practically a child with superhuman intelligence, speed, and strength) I believe he was actually upset that the Doctor was dying, because his father is probably the only one who has ever cared for him.
@@davidhelmer9124 Except... he's the reason that the colony where he was created was wiped out. Yeah, not sure WHY, but he disabled the shields that could have protected the colony from the Crystalline Entity.
@@marhawkman303 you got to see that he was childish though and the colonists hated him. He made a decision that was immature. Hoping to escape the colony that wanted him taken apart
Brent was brilliant in this episode he carried it all on his back by himself!
The voice crack in Lore's voice the first time he says "You look fINe!" will always break my heart.
Although he is 70 years old when he dies will know doubt be given the rank of "master actor"
To play 3 different characters at once simultaneously each with different personalities is an incredibly difficult thing to do. supurb achievement! And is worthy of emmy and a Oscar it takes a very high degree of intelligence and to pull it off on camera
Brent if you do see my comment here
You are a magician! Mad respect to you
When I first saw this episode, I thought that Brent actually did have an identical twin brother who could act as well as him. It would have been a lot more convenient if that were the case. I think they should have found another older actor to play Soong so that Brent wouldn't have to work so hard. I'm sure they had the budget to do so.
The way Lore reacted is everything.
2:59 omg he looks and sounds like he's about to cry
I feel for Lore here. He obviously cares about his father... but he has been hurt so much by whatever happened to him in the past that he can't trust anybody.
@@benkinder2800 and it will only get worse.
Lore truly does love Soong you can hear his voice break and then he can’t accept the truth
Lore reminds of Loki
“You’re not that old!”
“I’m so old I crap dust! I think I need to replace your ocular units!”
As a kid, I had no idea Brent Spiner played Dr. Soong. I couldn't recognize him at all in that makeup.
Yeah it was kinda hard to tell but I knew it was Brent Spiner because I recognized his voice underneath the makeup!
Brent Spiner is more Lore than Data..
:-)
You can hear that voice crack from lore when you know he's about to cry. T^T even though he is a bad dude, i feel bad for him.
2:23 You look fine...
Looks even worse than Palpatine
I see Brent channeled some Jimmy Stewart for Soong. I wonder how many hours of makeup he had to go through for Soong. The end of this episode made me cry, Data had just found his father, had a chance to feel emotions, Lore took that away, and then he had to say goodbye to his father. The line that really got me was when Data said he couldn't grieve for the Dr. and he replied Data would in his own way.
1 hour and 50 min
@@thedirtinyoureye2133 Honestly, I don't understand why they couldn't find another actor to play Soong. I understand that Brent had to play Lore as well since he didn't actually have an identical twin brother but there was really no reason for him to play Dr. Soong too.
sad thing is Lore isnt responsible for what he is. Soong misprogrammed him... just like KARR from Knight Rider
That's true.
god i almost cried when lore reacted like that. brent spiner is a wonder of an actor. the way his voice cracks i just... man.
Brent at his best playing all three roles!
One of the best episodes ever
That, Lore, is called humanity. :(
The son that looks like a human and acts like a sly demon. I have mixed feelings about Lore. He was the douchest asshole, a being full of bad attitude and daddy issues. But still, under all that built up hidden hate and anger, he still cares about his father. Clearly shown here. It makes me feel sorry for him, that he seems to feel betrayed by his family. Kinda makes me want to hug him and say you're not alone.
I know, its not fair, I wish they had more episodes with Lore. His whole life was one tragedy after another. I suppose thats why I love him so much, Its not that hard for a human to pass into heart numbing insanity after a certain point hits them hard enough. Just think about what it could to do to Lore? I love Data of course, he's just..so goddamn adorable. But Lore is just that dark kind of love that you hate to say you love it.
This episode shows exactly why Brent Spiner is such a great actor. Playing 3 different characters, each very distinct. Lore is bitter because he was the defective one, but he still cares about his father. Data is so innocent and we all fall for him because he is vulnerable in his own ways.
I found myself attracted to Lore in this episode because he was hurt over being abandoned and hated. I seem to fall for the loners and vulnerable characters that are hurting in some way.
Sarah Kinsey Completely agree. I really, really felt bad for him. He really was hurt, and is always good at hiding it until like the last second. Then you see a small glimpse of the pain he feels and then it's back to covering it up, ether by killing people. or being pissed off. his whole story is fucking sad. And I wish the writers would have added more stuff about Lore because he's the one character that even though a side character, is a very interesting one. And it pisses me off that he's a side character because his story is main character worthy.
Carter Evelyn Winggates He at least should have been in more episodes, maybe in DS9 too.
Anyone else getting some heavy Liquid Snake vibes from Lore when he says Dear Brother? Hell, Data and Lore have the whole thing of Solid and Liquid snake going on. Clones of their father created to surpass him, one is evil and the other good
Oh I love Lore and I love Data.
Its funny that Dr Soong says that Lore isnt the maniac Data made him, but a bit later, he tells Lore he had no idea he had been reactivated.......
This episode is still great
He was probably referring to Lore back on Omicron Theta. It seems to me that what really set Lore off in DataLore was Data telling him that he has loyalty only to Starfleet. There is a moment when Lore offers to help Data become more human that he looks hopeful, only for Data to crush that into paste. Data always tends to say the wrong thing, and unfortunately Lore tends to assume the worst in everyone. It was an event that could have been avoided.
@@IWasaTeenageTeenWolf interresting point of view
I think the most pressing question is: what happened to the Pakleds who rescued Lore?
Lore was wearing a Pakled uniform. He probably took over the ship and killed the Pakleds.
Yeah, the dumbest spices in Star Trek meets one of the smartest. Rip Pakleds who rescued Lore.
He's not the maniacal android......well.....actually....🤣🤣🤣
I wish Lore had been more of a character.
Agreed
1:05 I swore I saw data do a Spock eyebrow raise.😁
And in 2:47 loore must had a moment of human emotion,He admit his father was dying. Just like what people do in real life.I almost have sympathy for loore. So sad. 😢
@Ronald McDonald Unfortunately, the emotions were too much for him and they drove him insane. There was a summary online of a possible redemption episode for Lore that describes how he feels emotions; basically, imagine a crowd of people, but in one mind and body. So if a mob of people was raging, all that would be what he feels when he gets angry, or grief and sorrow would be so deep that it would make him suicidal. Unlike Data, who was allowed to develop before he was given emotions, Lore was slammed by them the moment he first woke up on Omicron Theta. He never really had a chance.
@Ronald McDonald
Data has emotions too, but in him they have been toned down to the point of vaguely being noticed unless you know what to look for.
I used to surpress my emotions (I don't anymore I've learned to deal with them better so I no longer have to), so I'm able to detect almost every single emotional experience that Data has had throughout the Star Trek: The Next Generation series.
I think it’s implied that lore’s got emotions (he’s very scornful) but he stole the emotion chip in order to ’fix’ his emotions because he’s aware that that’s what’s wrong with him
2:48 that voice crack 😭
If Lore could have valued all people like he did his father in this scene then he would never have had any problems.
People don't value other people the same way they value their fathers, so I don't think we should expect that much from him.
@@jamesdaniels1692 Well, Lore did end up murdering Dr. Soong so maybe he didn't love his father all that much.
i've always loved the play on Data and Lore's names... its sublte but fun.... you can always trust the "Data", but you should always Question the "Lore"
Not only that, but data tends to refer to raw, factual programming values, while lore refers to colorful but biased human legends and superstitions.
@@DracoHandsome exactly!
‘He’ll obey me, he always did’
Maybe before he watched you recreate him inch per inch excluding only his flaws and then taking him apart because fixing what’s wrong with him didn’t seem worthwhile to you, gosh dang.
Anyways, congratulations soong you’re the first man ever to give an Android daddy issues
As they were able to have 3 Brent Spiners on screen together here, it's a pity they couldn't somehow do the same with Jeffrey Combs as Weyoun and Brunt in DS9. Along with other Star Trek roles he played. Imagine how it would've been if there had been a bunch of Combs interacting on screen together.
One of my favourite episodes
Loved this scene so much. Lore is just a tortured, confused soul corrupted by some faulty programming making him unstable and psychopathic. To me he really does love his father and his brother. All I wish is Dr. Soong at some point would’ve said “I love you, my sons”
Ah, glorious screen recording software.
0:11-0:13 Must’ve taken a lot of time to get that shot.
Everything Lore is and what he’s capable of the doctor made him.
Lore had a type L phase discriminator w/emotion chip...Data a type R
reruns never get old...
ND
This I Know Much Is True the Star Trek Version.
I dont think lore cared about soong dying he was "supposed to" because of his emotional programming. Soong tells lore right away that its not a trick but im betting soong knew it would cause lore to stay. Then lore literally kills him later which proves the point.
Lore shows emotion wher Data doesnt! Does that mean if Data had emotion would he be as evil and maniacal ?
Lore killed the Pacleds lol nothing of value was lost
Noonian Soon
Born 2279
Incarcerated 2154?
This episode takes place in 2367
Soong looks dumb in this episode. There's no way he wouldn't know the difference between Lore and Data when he was installing a chip in one of them, that's like Steve Wozniak being shown an Apple I instead of an Apple II. Also he brings Lore back thinking Lore will just do what he wants, he should've just said "I need to talk to you both," as his reason.
Often Wrong should know better than to trust Lore
Aaaand thanks to Dr. Soong's carelessness, Data lost out on getting emotions. And we got the events of Descent, and an outpost full of dead people. Good job!
Actually, data retrieved the emotion chip in Descent Part 2. And then installed it in generations.
“Can’t do cerebral Trek in 2023 blah blah blah”. If you can’t do stuff this good gtfo. SO MUCH packed into this one little scene that the hacks spewing episodes today couldn’t even grasp let alone duplicate or master.
I hate these little clips!! play the whole thing or don't play them at all Stop teasing me!!!!
Imagine if he'd been found by the Obsidian Order rather than the Pakleds...