Richard Ehrlich here. I thought Gary did a great job on this. One thing I want to add- I didn’t discuss trikes off-road because 80% of the riding I do would not be possible on a trike. No trike would negotiate even the easy forest singletrack trails we ride. A trike would be fine for the doubletrack and forest roads.
Dennis Grelk here. Some thoughts as a builder that's about two decades into fiddling with Gravel recumbents and two versions into Offroad recumbents. I pretty much totally agree with Richard. It's really tough to beat long wheelbase with big wheels for true singletrack riding. The stability and ease of starting and stopping in that format allows you to ride things even traditional diamond frames can struggle with. I think the cutoff point for how difficult of trail one can ride is mostly limited to trail that require becoming airborne. There's just no easy way to adjust your center of gravity in that situation on recumbent. Otherwise you can climb and descend nearly anything. Switchbacks are the biggest challenge. For gravel the key is clearance for a 2" tire. SWB can work. LWB will be a little more stable. This shouldn't be a niche bike. Building bikes with enough tire clearance and stability to do more than ride pavement isn't rocket science, especially now in the era of disc brakes. Rans Stratus /Phoenix WRX, Lightfoot Ranger, Carver are all great examples of a bikes prime for all roads, gravel or pavement if you stuff a supple 2" tire on there and run lower tire pressures. It'd handle light trail as well.
Hey Dennis-Thanks for adding your well considered thoughts to this subject. I guess I always think of your efforts being focused on the track. It's nice to know you're working on bikes for off road as well.
Dennis, your builds push the envelope more than I can. We are in Sentiers du Moulin in Quebec right now, and the riding is very technical, some of the hardest we’ve seen. My bike is doing better than Barb’s top end Pivot MTB, mainly because I am at less risk of falling off and getting hurt. We are only riding the intermediate Enduro trails, and riders on the harder trails have full body armour and full face helmets. Also lots of e-assist, as the climbs are steep and tricky. I am definitely getting air, as I go way up off my seat, but the bike is staying grounded. If I was to ride here regularly, I’d need a beefier ‘Bent made for enduro. The Kodiak is a bit light for that.
I think you’re wrong want to come ride with me on my trike? Open invite anytime will be riding at Pocahontas State Park in Chesterfield VA the week of 11 - 15 September amazes me people think trikes can’t do what uprights can we can’t ride all single track but we can ride much of it more than you think!
Great job as always Gary thanks as an avid off road and gravel recumbent trike rider and racer I agree that suspension is a must for this type of riding and racing my Azub Ti Fly X does great and I can navigate 90% of single track I ride on thanks to good tires, suspension and my Pinion P18! I need another set of dedicated gravel wheels/tires to make it roll faster on gravel vs my Maxxis 2.4” off road tires cheers
Great that you’re out on the trails. You got my point that many trails can be ridden well on a ‘bent, and the TiFly would be a good ride. I think your definition of singletrack might be different though- none of the singletrack we ride in the East could be ridden by a trike. I bet out west where the forests are more open or in non-forested dry areas it would be fine.
@@Offroadbentwell I guess we will have to agree to disagree! I live in Northern NY and ride single track all the time at my local area.. have also ridden single track in VA, AR, and CO just to name a few? I have been on my single track trails that many “mountain bikers” won’t ride because of ratings, don’t judge others disabilities and confuse it with our abilities! If a traditional mountain bikes handle bars can fit I can get my Ti Fly X to fit. The biggest challenge on a trike is the lack of ground clearance that’s usually my limiting factor. Now I have ridden some single track where I haven’t been able to fit between the trees or rocks. I know that my trike can’t ride all single track but saying it’s not possible is a bad approach and certain makes other recumbent trike and hand cyclist think they can’t do it!
Hi brother I love travels by trike I live in Brazil I have 78 years old and I want to go to Alaska next year by trike I can contact to you? Thank you very match for you video
Electric assist is the future, analog cycling is fading away as the older generation dies off with their No Pain No Gain mentality, so it would be much more interesting if the channel promoted electric assisted laidback riding. There ain't no future in the past.
I guess I am part of the older generation at age 72 with no plans of “dying off” in the near future and I ride my 559 and 700 1000 miles per month all year long in my native New England and in Florida in the winter…….with all power being generated by the old legs and no motor. Adding e assist is wonderful for people who need it and want it. There is plenty of future in the past if one stays in shape and one stays in shape by doing the work. If the time comes where I have to cut back or need the e assist to ride then I will add it on.but not until it is totally needed. People succeed and prosper by doing the hard work. I’m living proof of that. I am turned off totally by seeing young folks scooting by…or trying to on e-bikes when they are the age of my grandkids. E-bikes have to have speed governors on them where I live and they get pissed off when the old man on a recumbent trike blows by them. No speed governors in this old man!
Hey Mark-I'm a big fan of e-assist but not for everyone. My wife has it on her trike but I still prefer turning those pedals totally under my own power. I'm your age and agree that there is some pride in the extra effort. I don't think this will last forever so when that time comes I'll be ready for the help😊
@@GarySolomon I’m on board with you Gary. There will be a rime when I will know that I need a little help. When that happens I will put it on my 559 for the long or hilly rides. The 700 will always be me cranking it out for ,speed. It will definitely be a hub drive system so,I can maintain all 3 rings up front.
![[DRIP] ‘Love, Maybe’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U7hwHp95m1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Richard Ehrlich here. I thought Gary did a great job on this. One thing I want to add- I didn’t discuss trikes off-road because 80% of the riding I do would not be possible on a trike. No trike would negotiate even the easy forest singletrack trails we ride. A trike would be fine for the doubletrack and forest roads.
Thanks, Richard!
Dennis Grelk here.
Some thoughts as a builder that's about two decades into fiddling with Gravel recumbents and two versions into Offroad recumbents. I pretty much totally agree with Richard. It's really tough to beat long wheelbase with big wheels for true singletrack riding. The stability and ease of starting and stopping in that format allows you to ride things even traditional diamond frames can struggle with. I think the cutoff point for how difficult of trail one can ride is mostly limited to trail that require becoming airborne. There's just no easy way to adjust your center of gravity in that situation on recumbent. Otherwise you can climb and descend nearly anything. Switchbacks are the biggest challenge.
For gravel the key is clearance for a 2" tire. SWB can work. LWB will be a little more stable. This shouldn't be a niche bike. Building bikes with enough tire clearance and stability to do more than ride pavement isn't rocket science, especially now in the era of disc brakes. Rans Stratus /Phoenix WRX, Lightfoot Ranger, Carver are all great examples of a bikes prime for all roads, gravel or pavement if you stuff a supple 2" tire on there and run lower tire pressures. It'd handle light trail as well.
Hey Dennis-Thanks for adding your well considered thoughts to this subject. I guess I always think of your efforts being focused on the track. It's nice to know you're working on bikes for off road as well.
Dennis, your builds push the envelope more than I can. We are in Sentiers du Moulin in Quebec right now, and the riding is very technical, some of the hardest we’ve seen. My bike is doing better than Barb’s top end Pivot MTB, mainly because I am at less risk of falling off and getting hurt. We are only riding the intermediate Enduro trails, and riders on the harder trails have full body armour and full face helmets. Also lots of e-assist, as the climbs are steep and tricky.
I am definitely getting air, as I go way up off my seat, but the bike is staying grounded.
If I was to ride here regularly, I’d need a beefier ‘Bent made for enduro. The Kodiak is a bit light for that.
I think you’re wrong want to come ride with me on my trike?
Open invite anytime will be riding at Pocahontas State Park in Chesterfield VA the week of 11 - 15 September amazes me people think trikes can’t do what uprights can we can’t ride all single track but we can ride much of it more than you think!
Great job as always Gary thanks as an avid off road and gravel recumbent trike rider and racer I agree that suspension is a must for this type of riding and racing my Azub Ti Fly X does great and I can navigate 90% of single track I ride on thanks to good tires, suspension and my Pinion P18! I need another set of dedicated gravel wheels/tires to make it roll faster on gravel vs my Maxxis 2.4” off road tires cheers
Thanks so much, Paul! I appreciate your willingness to contribute to this webcast even though we couldn't make it happen this time😊
Great that you’re out on the trails. You got my point that many trails can be ridden well on a ‘bent, and the TiFly would be a good ride.
I think your definition of singletrack might be different though- none of the singletrack we ride in the East could be ridden by a trike. I bet out west where the forests are more open or in non-forested dry areas it would be fine.
@@Offroadbentwell I guess we will have to agree to disagree! I live in Northern NY and ride single track all the time at my local area.. have also ridden single track in VA, AR, and CO just to name a few? I have been on my single track trails that many “mountain bikers” won’t ride because of ratings, don’t judge others disabilities and confuse it with our abilities! If a traditional mountain bikes handle bars can fit I can get my Ti Fly X to fit. The biggest challenge on a trike is the lack of ground clearance that’s usually my limiting factor. Now I have ridden some single track where I haven’t been able to fit between the trees or rocks. I know that my trike can’t ride all single track but saying it’s not possible is a bad approach and certain makes other recumbent trike and hand cyclist think they can’t do it!
@@paulkilgore3130Excellent, I sit corrected. Good on ya. Great to hear you’re enjoying trails.
Maybe we can get out on a ride some day.
Hi Barney!!
Hi brother I love travels by trike I live in Brazil I have 78 years old and I want to go to Alaska next year by trike I can contact to you? Thank you very match for you video
Sure! Write me at laidbackbikereport@gmail.com and let me know your plans.
Electric assist is the future, analog cycling is fading away as the older generation dies off with their No Pain No Gain mentality, so it would be much more interesting if the channel promoted electric assisted laidback riding. There ain't no future in the past.
Hi Susan! I agree with most of that and we have often featured segments on bents with e-assist. We will continue to do so!
I guess I am part of the older generation at age 72 with no plans of “dying off” in the near future and I ride my 559 and 700 1000 miles per month all year long in my native New England and in Florida in the winter…….with all power being generated by the old legs and no motor. Adding e assist is wonderful for people who need it and want it. There is plenty of future in the past if one stays in shape and one stays in shape by doing the work. If the time comes where I have to cut back or need the e assist to ride then I will add it on.but not until it is totally needed. People succeed and prosper by doing the hard work. I’m living proof of that. I am turned off totally by seeing young folks scooting by…or trying to on e-bikes when they are the age of my grandkids. E-bikes have to have speed governors on them where I live and they get pissed off when the old man on a recumbent trike blows by them. No speed governors in this old man!
Hey Mark-I'm a big fan of e-assist but not for everyone. My wife has it on her trike but I still prefer turning those pedals totally under my own power. I'm your age and agree that there is some pride in the extra effort. I don't think this will last forever so when that time comes I'll be ready for the help😊
@@GarySolomon I’m on board with you Gary. There will be a rime when I will know that I need a little help. When that happens I will put it on my 559 for the long or hilly rides. The 700 will always be me cranking it out for ,speed. It will definitely be a hub drive system so,I can maintain all 3 rings up front.