In case of haze and bad fungus that rule number one will not work.Haze is usually coming from aperture or helicoil lubricant (evaporation) due to poor conditioning of the lens (hot warm place like leaving in the car while it is hot outside), and fungus when lens is kept in moisture dark places, going from hot to cold environment (condens). The best cleaning is IPA, Hydrogen peroxide and rubbing alcohol mixed with demi water. To kill fungus an UV lamp is working perfectly also to prevent fungi to develop further.
@@ArkajyotiChoudhury Hydrogen peroxide is more effective then vinegar assuming that you want to clean up multi coated lens elements from fungus and or haze.The rest of the lens elements and inner barrel at the edges of the lens group should also be clean since fungus can grow and usually is growing from the edge of the lens toward to center leaving a trace in the coating surface.To make sure that any organic material and fungus is dead before you clean it you can use UV (black light) lamp to expose lens for some amount of time.I'm saying Hydrogen Peroxide IPA & Demi water mix since same substance is used by lens service.Vinegar will work if you have nothing else, but in some cases it might not be able to dissolve and remove all fungus residue.
This is a really useful video - I have so many lenses that I will examine, then take a crack at any that I think might benefit. The other rule I follow when working on mechanical items, especially those that are older, is “don’t force it”. Yes, ultimately sometimes a bit of elbow grease is necessary, but forcing things straight away without thinking about lubrication or solvents first can be disastrous. One of the “good” things about the internet is that there’s a wealth of knowledge that can be useful if we just take a little time.
I'm unsure about using an acid on delicate coatings, Nigel. I personally use a 3% Hydrogen Peroxide solution to kill haze and fungus, then lighter fluid (Naptha) to actually clean the glass. I use those 99p boxes of lens wipes (available from B & M or some of the other stores of that type) as a lint free cloth, I float a small square of the tissue onto the lens with lighter fluid, gently rub the lens then allow the lighter fluid to evaporate. This leaves the lens moisture and contaminent free - I worry that there may be a little natural sugar in vinegar which is why I don't use it. Using my method I've cleaned many Russian lenses, some Minolta glass, a couple of 135mm's (these are a really simple lens to cut your restoration teeth on) and at the moment I have a Pre AI Nikon 50mm f2.0 in bits - I'm having a little trouble with the aperture linkage putting it back together - note to self, don't take apart what you don't need to take apart!! As to the coatings, I would go ahead and explore the possibilities, you have nothing to lose. These lenses are cheap, plentiful, and simple enough to see if there's any difference before and after. As an aside, I've sent you an email to the Zenography11 email address, re. the Mamiya modification. Sigh.........just another 168 hours to wait for the next Zenography episode, but at least this week my wallet isn't going to be bruised buying another lens discovered by you. George
I know what you mean about vinegar - I do always make sure to rinse well, and internet wisdom , at least some of it, says it's the right thing to do, and it doesn't seem to have caused any damage. Still, I'll try your method as I'd like to get as deep a clean as possible, which I'm not sure vinegar alone can do. I'm eagerly awaiting your modded adaptor too!
There seems to be some question as to whether peroxid or vinigar is more effective when cleaning lenses. Personally I have not used either so far, but I have an old Sigma 28mm f/1.8 that might need some rear element cleaning so I'm wondering what to use best. In my case it seems to be only haze, too, so both vinegar and peroxide might be a bit of an overkill. Neither should be so strong that they damage the glass or coatings, but I wonder if peroxid might be too aggressive for the cement between lenses? Or plastics? Vinegar to me seems the saver choice so far... The work I have done on my lenses so far was mostly cleaning oily aperture blades. Many internet tutorials start with disassembling the whole lens and then remove the aperture mechanism but I personally find that to be too invasive. As you said, it is better to disassemble as little as possible. I found that removing the rear element and then using some isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swab is sufficient in most cases. One has to be extra careful not to apply too much force to the blades and you probably won't get all the oil out in one go, but in my opinion it beats the prospect of reassembling a complete lens. Also, I take pictures of everything I remove, so I know where it has to go back later on.
@@alexblaze8878 but vinegar is an organic liquid and organic material is what fungus needs to grow. So, you never should clean fungus with vinegar b⁄c a tiny bit of vinegar, left over from cleaning, may feed the next fungus.
@@heinundpiet well I’ve got several (about 8) Nikon 55mm 2.8 “micro” lenses and I’m going to try it out. I usually take apart lenses to thorough;y clean them and then rinse the glass in distilled water after cleaning them with alcohol, lighter fluid or vinegar. But just for my own knowledge I’m going to leave one of the lenses unrinsed after cleaning with vinegar and then shelve then for several months to do my own experiment.
I've been storing my lenses in plastic boxes with indicating silica gel and a humidity monitor for 7 years now and haven't had a problem with fungus. I just cook the silica gel in an oven when the humidity monitors go over 45% relative humidity. I live in the South West of England which has very high humidity and had a lot of problems with fungus prior to using the silica gel method. My modern lenses and cameras are stored in a dry cabinet which keeps relative humidity at the level you set. It's a shame that dry cabinets are hard to get hold of in the UK. When checking for fungus, haze or lens separation I would recommend shining a torch through the rear to check, as holding them up to a window generally doesn't show all the defects.
Thanks for the insight and tips. I myself cleaned out a Nikkor 28mm f.28 Ai-S several years ago, using zippo lighter fluid. Need to re-clean it as I have noticed hazy patches in the glass again.
Well, I'm certainly late to this party, but your mention of recoating lens-elements seems so intriguing. Did you ever go-forth with recoating? I just got in a Viltrox 27mm f/1.2 and I'm literally over the moon with this lens for my X-T4; much better than my 16-80mm f/4.5 kit lens! Anyway Nigel, really enjoy your videos and appreciate your measured and cautious approach to lens-restoration... Thank You!
It';s so refreshing to find a vintage user who knows that old lenses are prone to issues. So many folks just push the ridiculousness of the manipulative secondhand marketplace by pretending that all old gear is perfect gear. I picked up a silver Helios 13 blade lens recently and it was terrible! Don't waste your time and cash recoating as it'll cost a bomb IF you can find a place that'll do it. Instead, remove the aperture barrel and put it into a more "modern" Helios 44:2 lens. After all, the 'bling' of a silver lens does not make for better images as only the aperture blades can influence that if the user is into bubbly buttery blobby images. On a wider note, most often "haze" is just dried condensation that comes off with Opticians fluid and even just a wipe; although fluid lubrication is wisest. The trick is - always - to know how to get into an old hazy/foggy lens in order to clean it. However, if the haze/fog is caused by deterioration of a coating then nothing will clarify the broken down coating
Another great video! In my experience, haze seems to have been from helicoid lubricants boiling off, then condensing on the lens elements. I have had very good luck using isopropyl alcohol (ideally, 99%) on one side of a cotton bud, then drying with the other side, repeating as necessary, then a single drop of distilled water on a cotton bud, followed by drying with the other side. The alcohol gets most of the oil, but seems to leave an oil-slick-like haze, but the water cleans it off. For extreme cases, I have used naphtha and, for fungus, dilute ammonia in hydrogen peroxide, followed by a water rinse, worked. I have heard that ammonia can harm coatings, but I haven't experienced it with Takumar or Zeiss lenses. I was able to make huge improvements to my 135mm Triotar without much disassembly; I held the cotton bud in some locking forceps and was able to reach deep inside.
I have never noticed a film after using isopropyl alcohol unless there is too much oil or haze on the element, then several cleanings are required. Seems to me isopropyl alcohol would kill any fungus as well. As I used it to clean a S-M-C Takumar 50mm f/1.4 with great results. I use a UV lamp to kill any remaining fungus I could not get to. I have used NAPTHA to de-grease aperture blades and then had to carefully clean the inner element that may have gotten Naptha on it. I believe Naptha does have a very thin oil base.
@@MichaelRusso Naptha does have a volitile that releases. Alcohol and H2O2 work well on most haze. Then naptha on the areas the haze causing a problem. But I always finish any element with high concentration alcohol or Zeiss lens wipes. Take your time and examine in strong light to check if you still have any fringence of any residue left on the lens.
Another vote for isopropyl alcohol on a cotton but as the first treatment for dust, haze and fungus, followed by lens tissue dampened with distilled water (I get mine from our dehumidifier). Also I recommend wearing surgical gloves or similar while working with lens elements to prevent oil from your fingertips smearing the lenses again after your hard work!
Didn't the early silver 44-2 lenses actual come from Germany, like the Juniper 9? I was given a Russian HELIOS 81H 81N 50mm f2 Fake Russian Nikon Kiev Mount, and it was a bucket of bolts. It took a lot to get it stabilized.
I have been cleaning my Takumar 50mm and 55mm's. Most of the haze build up seems to be around the aperture blades. The element groups seem pretty sealed for the most part. I use lens cleaning fluid or alcohol to clean the element surface with cue tips with no ill affect.
On a similar topic, my Olympus Zuiko 55mm f1.2 which I bought a year ago has some faint weird either fungus scaring from cleaning inside the rear lens block, or actual fungus. I just bought another one from Japan and paid strict attention to the OPTICS declaration to be sure that the seller committed to the quality of the lens in writing. In time I may try to have last years lens be cleaned. For now, as I really like this lens I am just replacing it.
Recently I managed to fully clean my first vintage lens ever: Porst weitwinkel MC 28mm F2.8. When I bought the lens, it looked clean but pictures it produced were very hazy and there was a weird radiating halo. As it turned out, there were a great deal of fungus on inner glass. Cleaning process itself was very easy since all glass elements were easy to dismantle from lens barrel. The result was very satisfying. Also, I discovered that the haze was due to misplacement of one of the inner glass element. It was a curved one and it mattered a lot in which way it was put to its place. After turning it around, the halo problem disappeared. I must say, however, that some lenses are much harder to disassembly, especially some zooms. I had a 75-205 F3.5 zoom marketed as Super Albinar. Although the picture quality was rather good, the lens had some visible fungus. Of course, it was on the most inner part of the lens, in the middle... It required multiple number of steps to reach the faulty part of the lens. It was quite a reverse engineering indeed. To be positive: it is difficult only the first time :)
A simple so called 'dumb' adaptor is all you need to shoot this lens on an e mount camera - a simple metal tube with an M42 mount at one end and an e mount on the other - I've had good success with them!
Hi Have you come across the problem of the Asahi Pentax SMC Takumar with the open apeture metering lever? The leaver can foul on some adapters as they compress the apeture pin in, I am looking for an adapter to use on an M42 smc Takumar to a Nikon Z any advice on this problem would be welcome.
Any future lens cleaning with Leica/ Leica ltm copy lens. Recently bought an Elmar 9cm F4 early 50's looks a tiny bit hazy but afraid too. Enjoy the repair series. Much appreciated with ALL your videos. Take Care God Bless.
A while ago I got two 135mm CZJ lenses from the late 1950s/early 1960s (a Sonnar and a Triotar) at a bargain price (€ 11 + shipping) sold as "with fungus - spare parts". I've cleaned the rear elements of the Sonnar so far and the lens already improved. Will clean the front element, too as it seems to have some haze. I works beautifully. The Triotar needs a bit more work, as the helicoid is nearly stuck. But I think it'll be worth the effort, as it's got 12 aperture blades. So I'm crossing fingers, that it will work out.
Hi. I bought a pretty early 'heavy' Triotar 135... according to the serial number it appears to be from around 1949! It has pretty stiff focusing, still usable, but could be so much better. There isn't that much on the net about re-lubing. Just wondered if you managed to sort yours out?
I got mine from ebay - the adjustable (metal) lens spanner is essential; the plastic yellow round thing (known as a spanner or wrench) is essential too but must be of the right size for your lens, so ideally you'd need a set. You can improvise very effectively here though, I've used mugs or any round object of the right size, with a layer of blu-tak or something similar for grip. Good luck!
My preferred option for vintage lenses (mainly Takumars & MOGs) is as few coatings as possible and always stick a lens hood on regardless of light conditions. Image quality, in terms of colour saturation and contrast; 1) autoTaks, 2) SuperTaks and 3) SMCTaks in my experience. MOG's are generally brilliant lenses as long as the glass is clean of haze and fungus. PS: The yeasty Domiplan I purchased a few weeks ago was an easy strip and rebuild and is now clean as a whistle. I used isopropyl 70% followed by a touch of distilled water on each of the elements + total about 20 cotton buds.
In UK there is available distilled vinegar usually at 8% concentration. Which is not from fruit alcohol. The issue is always a trade-off between removing lens contamination and damaging the coatings. I use a specialist repair shop in Edinburgh UK to service my lenses about every 15 years, as they have the skills to strip clean, lubricate and re-assemble. However it would be good to collate a list of lens cleaning solutions that don’t damage coatings together with personal use experience and degree of aggressiveness of the agent.
Some good tips there. I agree with what you said about some lenses being horribly complicated. I once bought a CJZ Pancolar which someone had dismantled and couldn't put back together. I thought that it wouldn't be a problem for me - I tried, failed and it's now in a cupboard with my other failed projects ha ha
@@MichaelRusso It would seem for the average lens, say under $500. We rehoused a Tomioka 55mm f1.2 and as part of that process we did recoat one of the front lenses, I remember just the coating cost $300.
I bought a used Tokina 19-35 off of ebay. The seller had mentioned something about the lens, but it was rated as fully functional. I got the beautiful little lens out and took some shots. God, is this fully functional? There was so much haze that the photos were not visible. I ended up by paying just for the shipping from japan. It is an auto focus lens and has a very complicated build. I am therefor very afraid of opening the lens. So, the lens sit there and I am not very much interested to use it. when I do use it, I have to clear off the haze in PP. Then I can see what a jewel this lens is. Thanks for great information and tips.
Re-Coating is a complex process. It is not just putting some mineral- or metal salts in an vaccuum on the surface. Coatings are always a matter of the whole optical desingn. Lens radius, the place of the lens in the optical system and the refraction indexes must be put in relation to the wave length of the light spectrum you wish to alter . The theory said, that the refraction index of the coating and the thickness of the layer corresponds to the wave lenght. In the best case, you can eliminate the reflection of one wave length with one coating layer by interference of the original refracting wave length and the negative reflection on the boundary layer. Robert Kingslake gave some formulas and hints in his books about optical systems.
@@zenography7923 Knowledge is essential. In the old days of the Zeiss Sonnar these lenses haven't had any coatings.... and they worked, since there were only six glass/air boundaries. It is helpful to know, how coatings work and what restrictions they have. They are essential for the colour balance of an optical system, since specific light wave lenghts are eliminated out of the spectrum. The books from Kingslake are still helpful.
I took apart my old kit lens from my Nikon FM from 1970?.It had some nasty fungus two elements down, I was able clean it, I used hydrogen peroxide and iso alcohol. The lens is now usable, a very satisfying repair. It is very daunting, and I don't really like to do it. I watched some gentleman service a Mamiya 645 lens with stuck aperture blades,. It had many tiny springs, screws, and inner components that I know I'd never get them back together, so I know I have my limits with lens servicing.
Me too. I have only the greatest respect for anyone who can completely dismantle and rebuild a lens. It seems to require almost the skill of a surgeon!
This search: www.google.com/search?q=radioactive+lenses+list&oq=radioactive+lenses+list&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDINCAEQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAIQABiGAxiABBiKBTIKCAMQABiABBiiBDIKCAQQABiABBiiBNIBCDU5MDRqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 gives several lists of radioactive lenses. Thanks for looking in!
A bit off topic, I have just bought a FED 2 with an Industar 26m lens I haven't received it yet so I still have that excitement to come. I like the look and the practicality of collapsible lenses so I also bought an Industar 22. My question, does the rangefinder mechanism have to be matched to the lens or can any lens be used without adjustment? When my wife finds out I have bought another camera I shall blame you, you peaked my interest in rangefinder cameras. Sorry. All the best for future videos and thanks.
I think you'll like the Fed 2 - a simple and stylish, yet powerful little machine - with a long-base rangefinder too! Any L39 lens will work fine on your Fed, all lenses made for rangefinders have an inbuilt mechanism to operate the rangefinder at the correct rate for L39 (early Leica and Leica derived) cameras. Avoid M39 lenses though - they have the same thread and will mount, but they were made for the early Zenit SLR cameras and will not focus on a rangefinder. Enjoy!
White vinegar diluted in water is good for killing mould around window frames and presumably lenses too - it's mild acetic acid. I've used a spray bottle and it works well.
I have the same Zuiko lens that has some fungus, so I have to decide what to do. I have already had it cleaned once years ago. I have stripped and cleaned Minolta Rokkor lenses, and a few M-42 lenses, but anything more complex I send out. All the technicians I knew of for lens recoating have all either retired, or quit doing it.
As many others here in the comments mentioned, peroxide is the way to go for eliminating / killing the fungus without UV lights present. Cleaning with lighter fluid is mentioned and is to clean and leave no marks. Blowing the dust away with a blowball is not strong enough to get all the dust off. I use dust-off cans. Kenair is just another brand. This will be stronger and easier to use. And last but not least, I use gloves to handle the lens elements so I do not leave fingerprint grease and moisture on the surface. This is a breading ground for new fungus. About re-coating the lens elements I can say, I did find a business who will coat them for me. I have a Sonnar front element I want to re-coat. The costs are quite hight though. It might be a bit to much for the one lens element only. Therefore I think if you coat all elements of a lens it is more economical and might be a very good way to enhance a good lens to become even better. Just give it a go and see!! We all are eager to hear from you if it worked out well or not. Thank you again for your video!
Thank you again for an other great and inspireing video sir, I may say you have encouraged me to open and clean a cheap, chinese 85mm I really really like and is all full of haze in the rear element. It's an EF mount, all manual, no electronic parts so I guess (and hope) it woun't be so trouboled. I'd like to pitch out a couple of tips for you sir: 1. light the back of the lens with a celphone lantern while looking at the front element, trying to light the inner elements and not to acually look at the light through the lens, you'll see how dirty and scratched the lens is, if it's just haze or fungus or if it has some more damage; and 2. While your videos still highly interesting, your audio levels seems to have dropped a little in the past few videos sir, you might wanna take a look at the audio waveforms and levels before posting your next video. Thank you so much Zen, greetings from old Mexico!
Retro Foto House has a step by step video on cleaning fungus from a Helios 44-2, mine didn't have fungus but I took it apart and cleaned the glass but I have to admit it's a bit battered and I had been given it, I have a couple of Zuiko lens I'm not sue I would want to take them apart
On the Helios-44-3 lens, you need to paint the end of the front lens with black paint, and you also need to make the aperture black. Then, the contrast and colors of the lens will be better.
I have had to disassemble a number of lenses. The Kinoptik 5.7mm F/1.8, Olympus OM 50mm f/1.4 (the same issue you have in this episode), Zeiss Flektogon 20mm F/4, and Olympus OM 16mm fisheye F/3.5. Only the latter was problematic. It looks like the front element of the fisheye is 2 pieces of glass cemented, like your Helios. A cemented element isn't something I want to mess about with until I really have all the details.
Very interesting video, I managed to get a helios 44m and a pentacon 50 unstuck and focusing smoothly, but not sure I would want to go further than that. (And when it comes to changing taps, I’m even more of a coward and recommend a plumber an the Hans Grohe brand for best finish 😀)
I once ruined a 50 1.4 Zuiko trying to clean it. They are very difficult to take apart or outright refuse to cooperate. I just could not get the front and rear groups out of their bearings; they were forever-stuck. I ruined the whole thing. The Rokkor-PF 55/1.7, on the other hand, was quite the charm to fully dis- and reassemble (not that it was a fast process by any means). Lenses are not created equally at all in this regard.
I'm glad I didn't have to go further into the zuiko - it didn't look at all simple. The Rokkor 58 1.4 is pretty simple too - as far as lenses go anyway!
I'm pretty lucky (planned) at where I live. It's the deep south west USA where the H word (humidity) is never uttered. I took apart a Zuiko for fun, just wanted to see how they tick, and wanted the glass out of it. Never intended to put it back as I messed it up pretty bad. Good stuff, thanks!
The Helios 44 series have so many different coating combinations , been meaning to do a video on it. Made the spreadsheet , but it's a 40 odd lens video. Kinda daunting, over the years the pallet shifted and expanded but within each iteration different combinations are used.
Thanks for making this video. I had no idea what to do about one of my hazy lenses I got second hand. Now I atleast have some idea of what to expect. The comments below are helping give insight as well. Not sure if I'm as brave as you are with taking it apart, but hey.. it was a cheap lens so maybe I will! Always room for learning. Cheers - Subbed.
So far the only thing I dare to "fix" was to take out the pin in the base, of the zebra 50mm tessar. I like how this Tessar images look and the pop colors too. So I took it out and now I'm able to use the aperture ring with the M42 mount... Also, this lens works perfectly with macro rings, for me it is not inferior to the Macro 50mm and 100mm takumars. I can not answer to your questions, sorry. Thanks for the interesting video.
Haze can have different reasons. Mostly it originates from detoriating lubricants. Some haze could build up, when the glue of cemented interior lenses got hazy. The third kind of haze I found mostly at Tokina lenses is not clearly explainable. It seems to stick on the outer surface of the lenses, but it could not be cleaned up. Has anyone an clue to fix it?
Recoating? Absolutely ! Would like to learn what the deal is. Today I decided to find out why my fake Leica chews up and breaks film, also in the process I noticed the shutter curtains were like a starry night, used vinyl restoration paint, looked like the shutter had previous repairs , seems that the lower part of the body had a fair amount of corrosion inside and was either squashed or swapped at some point, or the pressure plate is the wrong one, I sanded ,polished then repainted the interior, I eventually and reluctantly ommited the pressure plate. Then took all the knurled parts off for a scrub. My chrap helios 40-2 still has some nastyness behind the front element however the filter ring has had a wallop , shame considering the time it took to remove the grit dirt and sand jamming everything else up.
I'm sure rfh is right, I'd like to try a later Helios - but the coating on the early KMZ made lenses is really something. It would be interesting to compare.
@@zenography7923 I got three of them Helios. I'm not sure how early is early. My earliest one is a # 0048694 followed by a 44 M7 and a 44M in no particular order. All of them seem to have some coating of the the same sort. Just adding some additional info here.
@@zenography7923 The earliest one I consider the most characterful as it swirls unasked. One of the other two guys, can't remember exactly which one, needs to be forced w. much lesser swirl as a result. maybe I should do some more AB testing, but time is an issue.
Some bargain old lens out there and I just got a 400 telephoto for £5 and just needed a screw adapter for another £5 and instead of paying a fortune you just have to go back to manual zoom but wow!!!! I got an amazing 300 lens and 3 adapters for macro for £10!!!! Just but adapters and start collecting old lens because what would you rather lose or drop, something for £5 or something for £500?
Unfortunately quite a few Olympus Zuiko lenses have a front objective (containing more than one lens elements) that is a sealed metal unit without any means available for dismantling it. Even more unfortunately, the objective isn't sufficiently sealed to prevent fungus getting in between the lenses. I've had to scrap a couple of such lenses, and, to be honest, it's put me off collecting Zuikos. Lenses that are usually pretty straightforward to dismantle include Konica Hexanons, Carl Zeiss Jena and Nikon Nikkors. Canon FD lenses can be a nightmare, particularly the "new" FD ones, unless the rear objective can be removed without having to dismantle the very complex FD breach mount.
Judging by the casing (I actually never saw it in plastic) this Helios 44-3 production date is close to 90s, and it came from an "outsource" factory BelOMO (Belorussian opto-mechanic factory) as the logo shows, not famous Krasnogorsky factory KMZ. BelOMO lenses considered slightly worse by themselves, and they really had lesser coatings. But later production is the key to it's lower quality I think - it's USSR's decline, everything was falling apart, everything was cheapened to survive, so usually I don't even look at those lenses.
I've heard different opinions on these lenses, some of which may be down to sample variation? In my own experience, which is by no means definitive, I've found the KMZ lenses to be consistently nicer than any other variety.
Good advice. I have a lens that's developed such a horrible case of hazing that I can't even get a decent picture with it. For many years it was one of my best lenses, a Canon FD 50mm F1.4 lens (the good one with the rotating mount lock.) The problem is the clouding is behind the front element, and while I can open the lens with no problem as I've had to clean the aperture blades on occasion, the deal that holds the second element to the back of the front one is screwed so tight, I've never been able to get it apart.
On the Olympus 50mm 1.4 there's a ball bearing under that first ring that provides the click for the aperture ring and you have to be VERY careful during that initial removal as the bearing is easily lost. You don't mention it in the video so I guess you got lucky or your lens has already been "declicked"?
The number of times I've had to go searching on the floor for those pesky ball bearings (and sometimes tiny springs). So far, with the aid of a high-powered torch held parallel to the floor, I've managed to find all of them again!
@@robtweed1955 l know exactly what you mean because I've had the same thing happen. And I agree about having the light low to the floor. It really helps. One thing I've learned about a CLA job is to just have a lot of patience, and just walk away when you're getting tired or frustrated about something. Coming back later does help.
@@zenography7923 You are forgiven 🤗 and also commended for your bravery in delving into the internals of a Zuiko lens 🥇👍. I have a couple of downloads of exploded diagrams of some Zuiko lenses and oh boy are they full of very thin shim type bits and there are several internally different versions of some of them too 😯 they look like a nightmare or incredibly difficult to dismantle and keep track of all the parts and ever get them all back in the correct order 😳!!! For future delvings and dismantlings of lenses and cameras, I follow a chap here on youtube he is pretty good at this stuff , his channel is Mikeno62. He has stacks of how to's in video or frame by frame and instructions on a huge amount of lenses and cameras 😊. Very much worth a look 👍.
Maybe my commentary can be unapropiated but here in Mexico I had heard that some technicians use their urine to clean fungus, and makes some sense as urine contains ammonia
A professional camera mechanic I know dries elements very carefully over a machine that collects damp like an air conditioner....... On another tack... Can you adapt ZUIKO lenses to work on an M42 fitting like Zenith cameras.... please....
Well, the lens register distance of om bodies is 46mm, that of m42 bodies is 45.46mm, so you'd have to use an adaptor with an extra element to account for the difference - so it can't easily be done. And for the cost of the adaptor - if you could find one - you could probably find a good OM10!
humbly may I suggest to raise the volume of your recordings a little bit? I don't know what's the standard in terms of volume and loudness on youtube, but turning on my speakers while listening to this meant that any other computer notification would be shouted out as loud as a foghorn and that's unpleasant :/
Some places used do recoating I think for around 80$ with technology now . I'm curious if we can do it ourselves. Someone should just make a MC filter with step rings
My method of cleaning a lens involves the same final procedure on all my repairs. First I examine the item, take it apart, then after losing parts and getting annoyed I move onto my final step in all such situations, which has always been 100 percent effective: I take the item into the yard, I liberally sprinkle it with gasoline and then I strike a match and watch the son-of-a-bitch burn all to hell. It's not really satisfying but I do get a sense of closure, which according to various sources is an important thing. Occasionally while an item is receiving its final treatment I ponder what I did wrong, and knowing I was not to blame I feel a certain sense of possibly inappropriate glee as one might feel when deer season eliminates the pesky potential hood ornaments in large numbers, or when a bad president emits gasses while opposing gas pipelines. You see it is all connected, the circle of life, the butterfly effect, presidents and lenses and petroleum products, and even covid, or as I like to call it: the Chinese evil shit from hell or CESFH, since acronyms are al the rage, although this one sounds like a lisp. It's the circle of life baby. I try to refrain from repairs. It's best for us all that way.
Во времена СССР "МС Гелиос-44-3" имел цену 40 полновесных советских рублей (тогда в стране американский доллар стоил примерно 70 копеек) и был одним из лучших объективов в Союзе. Сейчас такой объектив спустя 35 лет в России можно купить за эквивалент $10-20, причём в отличном состоянии.
Hi Nigel! Thanks for your videos. Regarding the Helios 44-3 - the '80s copies have more prominent coating, if it helps in any way))). From my own experience, my 1990 copy held the backlight worse than the Valdai 44-2 from '84 and the 44-2 MMZ from 1983. Something similar to the video on this link was happening: th-cam.com/video/h8u1E9M7hf8/w-d-xo.html p.s.: 44-3 made before '90 has the focusing ring stuck in the adapter, you will need to grind it or replace it with the ring from the '90's version (though you are probably aware of that).
@@zenography7923 I have much the same problem with most of your uploads. Doesn't spoil the content though! ps doesn't help I have fairly impaired hearing...
In case of haze and bad fungus that rule number one will not work.Haze is usually coming from aperture or helicoil lubricant (evaporation) due to poor conditioning of the lens (hot warm place like leaving in the car while it is hot outside), and fungus when lens is kept in moisture dark places, going from hot to cold environment (condens). The best cleaning is IPA, Hydrogen peroxide and rubbing alcohol mixed with demi water. To kill fungus an UV lamp is working perfectly also to prevent fungi to develop further.
Thanks for the tips, I'll give them a go!
for fungus on lens, Kitchen Vinegar works equally well
@@ArkajyotiChoudhury Yeah if you want to get it back again use vinegar.
@@eagleeyephoto8715 sorry?
@@ArkajyotiChoudhury Hydrogen peroxide is more effective then vinegar assuming that you want to clean up multi coated lens elements from fungus and or haze.The rest of the lens elements and inner barrel at the edges of the lens group should also be clean since fungus can grow and usually is growing from the edge of the lens toward to center leaving a trace in the coating surface.To make sure that any organic material and fungus is dead before you clean it you can use UV (black light) lamp to expose lens for some amount of time.I'm saying Hydrogen Peroxide IPA & Demi water mix since same substance is used by lens service.Vinegar will work if you have nothing else, but in some cases it might not be able to dissolve and remove all fungus residue.
This is a really useful video - I have so many lenses that I will examine, then take a crack at any that I think might benefit. The other rule I follow when working on mechanical items, especially those that are older, is “don’t force it”. Yes, ultimately sometimes a bit of elbow grease is necessary, but forcing things straight away without thinking about lubrication or solvents first can be disastrous. One of the “good” things about the internet is that there’s a wealth of knowledge that can be useful if we just take a little time.
I'm unsure about using an acid on delicate coatings, Nigel. I personally use a 3% Hydrogen Peroxide solution to kill haze and fungus, then lighter fluid (Naptha) to actually clean the glass. I use those 99p boxes of lens wipes (available from B & M or some of the other stores of that type) as a lint free cloth, I float a small square of the tissue onto the lens with lighter fluid, gently rub the lens then allow the lighter fluid to evaporate. This leaves the lens moisture and contaminent free - I worry that there may be a little natural sugar in vinegar which is why I don't use it.
Using my method I've cleaned many Russian lenses, some Minolta glass, a couple of 135mm's (these are a really simple lens to cut your restoration teeth on) and at the moment I have a Pre AI Nikon 50mm f2.0 in bits - I'm having a little trouble with the aperture linkage putting it back together - note to self, don't take apart what you don't need to take apart!!
As to the coatings, I would go ahead and explore the possibilities, you have nothing to lose. These lenses are cheap, plentiful, and simple enough to see if there's any difference before and after.
As an aside, I've sent you an email to the Zenography11 email address, re. the Mamiya modification.
Sigh.........just another 168 hours to wait for the next Zenography episode, but at least this week my wallet isn't going to be bruised buying another lens discovered by you.
George
I know what you mean about vinegar - I do always make sure to rinse well, and internet wisdom , at least some of it, says it's the right thing to do, and it doesn't seem to have caused any damage. Still, I'll try your method as I'd like to get as deep a clean as possible, which I'm not sure vinegar alone can do.
I'm eagerly awaiting your modded adaptor too!
Vinegar is completely free of sugar.
There seems to be some question as to whether peroxid or vinigar is more effective when cleaning lenses. Personally I have not used either so far, but I have an old Sigma 28mm f/1.8 that might need some rear element cleaning so I'm wondering what to use best. In my case it seems to be only haze, too, so both vinegar and peroxide might be a bit of an overkill. Neither should be so strong that they damage the glass or coatings, but I wonder if peroxid might be too aggressive for the cement between lenses? Or plastics? Vinegar to me seems the saver choice so far...
The work I have done on my lenses so far was mostly cleaning oily aperture blades. Many internet tutorials start with disassembling the whole lens and then remove the aperture mechanism but I personally find that to be too invasive. As you said, it is better to disassemble as little as possible. I found that removing the rear element and then using some isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swab is sufficient in most cases. One has to be extra careful not to apply too much force to the blades and you probably won't get all the oil out in one go, but in my opinion it beats the prospect of reassembling a complete lens. Also, I take pictures of everything I remove, so I know where it has to go back later on.
@@alexblaze8878 but vinegar is an organic liquid and organic material is what fungus needs to grow. So, you never should clean fungus with vinegar b⁄c a tiny bit of vinegar, left over from cleaning, may feed the next fungus.
@@heinundpiet well I’ve got several (about 8) Nikon 55mm 2.8 “micro” lenses and I’m going to try it out. I usually take apart lenses to thorough;y clean them and then rinse the glass in distilled water after cleaning them with alcohol, lighter fluid or vinegar. But just for my own knowledge I’m going to leave one of the lenses unrinsed after cleaning with vinegar and then shelve then for several months to do my own experiment.
I've been storing my lenses in plastic boxes with indicating silica gel and a humidity monitor for 7 years now and haven't had a problem with fungus. I just cook the silica gel in an oven when the humidity monitors go over 45% relative humidity. I live in the South West of England which has very high humidity and had a lot of problems with fungus prior to using the silica gel method. My modern lenses and cameras are stored in a dry cabinet which keeps relative humidity at the level you set. It's a shame that dry cabinets are hard to get hold of in the UK. When checking for fungus, haze or lens separation I would recommend shining a torch through the rear to check, as holding them up to a window generally doesn't show all the defects.
Thanks for the insight and tips. I myself cleaned out a Nikkor 28mm f.28 Ai-S several years ago, using zippo lighter fluid. Need to re-clean it as I have noticed hazy patches in the glass again.
Well done, thanks for sharing!
Well, I'm certainly late to this party, but your mention of recoating lens-elements seems so intriguing.
Did you ever go-forth with recoating?
I just got in a Viltrox 27mm f/1.2 and I'm literally over the moon with this lens for my X-T4; much better than my 16-80mm f/4.5 kit lens!
Anyway Nigel, really enjoy your videos and appreciate your measured and cautious approach to lens-restoration... Thank You!
It';s so refreshing to find a vintage user who knows that old lenses are prone to issues. So many folks just push the ridiculousness of the manipulative secondhand marketplace by pretending that all old gear is perfect gear. I picked up a silver Helios 13 blade lens recently and it was terrible! Don't waste your time and cash recoating as it'll cost a bomb IF you can find a place that'll do it. Instead, remove the aperture barrel and put it into a more "modern" Helios 44:2 lens. After all, the 'bling' of a silver lens does not make for better images as only the aperture blades can influence that if the user is into bubbly buttery blobby images. On a wider note, most often "haze" is just dried condensation that comes off with Opticians fluid and even just a wipe; although fluid lubrication is wisest. The trick is - always - to know how to get into an old hazy/foggy lens in order to clean it. However, if the haze/fog is caused by deterioration of a coating then nothing will clarify the broken down coating
Your microphone is so good I heard your watch ticking! Great production quality
Great video and brave action. Can you please tell me how the tools are called and where to get these? Canˋt wait to try it for myself… Thans, Heiner
Another great video! In my experience, haze seems to have been from helicoid lubricants boiling off, then condensing on the lens elements. I have had very good luck using isopropyl alcohol (ideally, 99%) on one side of a cotton bud, then drying with the other side, repeating as necessary, then a single drop of distilled water on a cotton bud, followed by drying with the other side. The alcohol gets most of the oil, but seems to leave an oil-slick-like haze, but the water cleans it off. For extreme cases, I have used naphtha and, for fungus, dilute ammonia in hydrogen peroxide, followed by a water rinse, worked. I have heard that ammonia can harm coatings, but I haven't experienced it with Takumar or Zeiss lenses.
I was able to make huge improvements to my 135mm Triotar without much disassembly; I held the cotton bud in some locking forceps and was able to reach deep inside.
I have never noticed a film after using isopropyl alcohol unless there is too much oil or haze on the element, then several cleanings are required. Seems to me isopropyl alcohol would kill any fungus as well. As I used it to clean a S-M-C Takumar 50mm f/1.4 with great results. I use a UV lamp to kill any remaining fungus I could not get to. I have used NAPTHA to de-grease aperture blades and then had to carefully clean the inner element that may have gotten Naptha on it. I believe Naptha does have a very thin oil base.
@@MichaelRusso Naptha does have a volitile that releases. Alcohol and H2O2 work well on most haze. Then naptha on the areas the haze causing a problem. But I always finish any element with high concentration alcohol or Zeiss lens wipes. Take your time and examine in strong light to check if you still have any fringence of any residue left on the lens.
It's always good to make a lens nice and clean! Thanks for watching.
Another vote for isopropyl alcohol on a cotton but as the first treatment for dust, haze and fungus, followed by lens tissue dampened with distilled water (I get mine from our dehumidifier). Also I recommend wearing surgical gloves or similar while working with lens elements to prevent oil from your fingertips smearing the lenses again after your hard work!
Didn't the early silver 44-2 lenses actual come from Germany, like the Juniper 9?
I was given a Russian HELIOS 81H 81N 50mm f2 Fake Russian Nikon Kiev Mount, and it was a bucket of bolts. It took a lot to get it stabilized.
You may have a very early lens built mainly with Contax parts and glass there - worth quite a bit I believe so worth researching.
I have been cleaning my Takumar 50mm and 55mm's. Most of the haze build up seems to be around the aperture blades. The element groups seem pretty sealed for the most part. I use lens cleaning fluid or alcohol to clean the element surface with cue tips with no ill affect.
Thanks for the tip, I'll keep it in mind!
On a similar topic, my Olympus Zuiko 55mm f1.2 which I bought a year ago has some faint weird either fungus scaring from cleaning inside the rear lens block, or actual fungus. I just bought another one from Japan and paid strict attention to the OPTICS declaration to be sure that the seller committed to the quality of the lens in writing. In time I may try to have last years lens be cleaned. For now, as I really like this lens I am just replacing it.
Recently I managed to fully clean my first vintage lens ever: Porst weitwinkel MC 28mm F2.8. When I bought the lens, it looked clean but pictures it produced were very hazy and there was a weird radiating halo. As it turned out, there were a great deal of fungus on inner glass. Cleaning process itself was very easy since all glass elements were easy to dismantle from lens barrel. The result was very satisfying. Also, I discovered that the haze was due to misplacement of one of the inner glass element. It was a curved one and it mattered a lot in which way it was put to its place. After turning it around, the halo problem disappeared.
I must say, however, that some lenses are much harder to disassembly, especially some zooms. I had a 75-205 F3.5 zoom marketed as Super Albinar. Although the picture quality was rather good, the lens had some visible fungus. Of course, it was on the most inner part of the lens, in the middle... It required multiple number of steps to reach the faulty part of the lens. It was quite a reverse engineering indeed. To be positive: it is difficult only the first time :)
Very interesting, thanks! Would be curious to see if recoating the lens would make a big difference.
Indeed - me too!
Recoating vintage lenses are not cheap. For high value ones like Leica, Zeiss etc would sense.
@@damiendehorn6350 sure, but it would be interesting to see!
I love Photography Grandfather!
Hello, i want to buy an helios 44-3 but i do not know what kind of adapter i have to buy for my sony e-mount. Which adapter do you use?
A simple so called 'dumb' adaptor is all you need to shoot this lens on an e mount camera - a simple metal tube with an M42 mount at one end and an e mount on the other - I've had good success with them!
@@zenography7923 Thank you so much. At the end i bought an 44-4M and i am waiting for the adapter.
I was given two vintage tamron zoom lens which have a bit for a fungus problem. I’m just waiting for the tools to arrive so I can try a clean them :)
Hi Have you come across the problem of the Asahi Pentax SMC Takumar with the open apeture metering lever? The leaver can foul on some adapters as they compress the apeture pin in, I am looking for an adapter to use on an M42 smc Takumar to a Nikon Z any advice on this problem would be welcome.
Any future lens cleaning with Leica/ Leica ltm copy lens. Recently bought an Elmar 9cm F4 early 50's looks a tiny bit hazy but afraid too. Enjoy the repair series. Much appreciated with ALL your videos. Take Care God Bless.
Thanks, glad you're enjoying the videos!
Nice ive got a hazy/cloudy lens in my prinzgalaxie 400 have tried vinegar to no avail. Any more tips would be appreciated
Perhaps isopropyl alcohol might help?
A while ago I got two 135mm CZJ lenses from the late 1950s/early 1960s (a Sonnar and a Triotar) at a bargain price (€ 11 + shipping) sold as "with fungus - spare parts".
I've cleaned the rear elements of the Sonnar so far and the lens already improved. Will clean the front element, too as it seems to have some haze. I works beautifully.
The Triotar needs a bit more work,
as the helicoid is nearly stuck. But I think it'll be worth the effort, as it's got 12 aperture blades. So I'm crossing fingers, that it will work out.
Those sound like interesting projects - definitely worth the effort!
Hi. I bought a pretty early 'heavy' Triotar 135... according to the serial number it appears to be from around 1949! It has pretty stiff focusing, still usable, but could be so much better. There isn't that much on the net about re-lubing. Just wondered if you managed to sort yours out?
Hi Nigel, Great work. Can you advise where I might get the tools you used to open and dismantle the lenses? Cheers Denis
I got mine from ebay - the adjustable (metal) lens spanner is essential; the plastic yellow round thing (known as a spanner or wrench) is essential too but must be of the right size for your lens, so ideally you'd need a set. You can improvise very effectively here though, I've used mugs or any round object of the right size, with a layer of blu-tak or something similar for grip. Good luck!
My preferred option for vintage lenses (mainly Takumars & MOGs) is as few coatings as possible and always stick a lens hood on regardless of light conditions. Image quality, in terms of colour saturation and contrast; 1) autoTaks, 2) SuperTaks and 3) SMCTaks in my experience. MOG's are generally brilliant lenses as long as the glass is clean of haze and fungus.
PS: The yeasty Domiplan I purchased a few weeks ago was an easy strip and rebuild and is now clean as a whistle. I used isopropyl 70% followed by a touch of distilled water on each of the elements + total about 20 cotton buds.
A hood certainly helps when coatings are minimal - and when they're not, too! Thanks for the tips.
In UK there is available distilled vinegar usually at 8% concentration. Which is not from fruit alcohol. The issue is always a trade-off between removing lens contamination and damaging the coatings. I use a specialist repair shop in Edinburgh UK to service my lenses about every 15 years, as they have the skills to strip clean, lubricate and re-assemble. However it would be good to collate a list of lens cleaning solutions that don’t damage coatings together with personal use experience and degree of aggressiveness of the agent.
Is this a lens specialist? I have a couple that would benefit from service
@@ianlainchburyYes, I also know one in Glasgow as well. Would you like their details?
Yes please. Many thanks :)
How about trying Newton Ellis for coating?
I'll give them a try, thanks!
Some good tips there. I agree with what you said about some lenses being horribly complicated. I once bought a CJZ Pancolar which someone had dismantled and couldn't put back together. I thought that it wouldn't be a problem for me - I tried, failed and it's now in a cupboard with my other failed projects ha ha
I've got one or two of those myself - can't win 'em all I suppose!
I'd love to hear how much it would cost to re-coat. I suspect it may be ridiculously expensive, but hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.....
It'll certainly be interesting to find out!
Duclos does recoating, but usually more expensive then the lens itself (for standard vintage lenses).
@@damiendehorn6350 Seems to me one would be better off just buying another one then going through the expense.
@@MichaelRusso It would seem for the average lens, say under $500. We rehoused a Tomioka 55mm f1.2 and as part of that process we did recoat one of the front lenses, I remember just the coating cost $300.
@@damiendehorn6350 Good point and that Tomioka 55mm f1.2 is a highly regarded rare lens and well worth the fix.
I bought a used Tokina 19-35 off of ebay. The seller had mentioned something about the lens, but it was rated as fully functional. I got the beautiful little lens out and took some shots. God, is this fully functional? There was so much haze that the photos were not visible. I ended up by paying just for the shipping from japan. It is an auto focus lens and has a very complicated build. I am therefor very afraid of opening the lens. So, the lens sit there and I am not very much interested to use it. when I do use it, I have to clear off the haze in PP. Then I can see what a jewel this lens is.
Thanks for great information and tips.
I'd love to figure out a diy lens coating process.
Me too!
Re-Coating is a complex process. It is not just putting some mineral- or metal salts in an vaccuum on the surface. Coatings are always a matter of the whole optical desingn. Lens radius, the place of the lens in the optical system and the refraction indexes must be put in relation to the wave length of the light spectrum you wish to alter . The theory said, that the refraction index of the coating and the thickness of the layer corresponds to the wave lenght. In the best case, you can eliminate the reflection of one wave length with one coating layer by interference of the original refracting wave length and the negative reflection on the boundary layer. Robert Kingslake gave some formulas and hints in his books about optical systems.
A complex art then - it seems I must do some research!
@@zenography7923 Knowledge is essential. In the old days of the Zeiss Sonnar these lenses haven't had any coatings.... and they worked, since there were only six glass/air boundaries. It is helpful to know, how coatings work and what restrictions they have. They are essential for the colour balance of an optical system, since specific light wave lenghts are eliminated out of the spectrum. The books from Kingslake are still helpful.
Hello! Why don't you use alcohol to clean the lenses from fungus?
I took apart my old kit lens from my Nikon FM from 1970?.It had some nasty fungus two elements down, I was able clean it, I used hydrogen peroxide and iso alcohol. The lens is now usable, a very satisfying repair. It is very daunting, and I don't really like to do it. I watched some gentleman service a Mamiya 645 lens with stuck aperture blades,. It had many tiny springs, screws, and inner components that I know I'd never get them back together, so I know I have my limits with lens servicing.
Me too. I have only the greatest respect for anyone who can completely dismantle and rebuild a lens. It seems to require almost the skill of a surgeon!
A query re radioactive lenses. I uderstand these should not be taken apart so is there’s list anywhere of which lenses are possibly radioactive?
This search: www.google.com/search?q=radioactive+lenses+list&oq=radioactive+lenses+list&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDINCAEQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAIQABiGAxiABBiKBTIKCAMQABiABBiiBDIKCAQQABiABBiiBNIBCDU5MDRqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
gives several lists of radioactive lenses. Thanks for looking in!
A bit off topic, I have just bought a FED 2 with an Industar 26m lens I haven't received it yet so I still have that excitement to come. I like the look and the practicality of collapsible lenses so I also bought an Industar 22. My question, does the rangefinder mechanism have to be matched to the lens or can any lens be used without adjustment?
When my wife finds out I have bought another camera I shall blame you, you peaked my interest in rangefinder cameras. Sorry. All the best for future videos and thanks.
I think you'll like the Fed 2 - a simple and stylish, yet powerful little machine - with a long-base rangefinder too! Any L39 lens will work fine on your Fed, all lenses made for rangefinders have an inbuilt mechanism to operate the rangefinder at the correct rate for L39 (early Leica and Leica derived) cameras.
Avoid M39 lenses though - they have the same thread and will mount, but they were made for the early Zenit SLR cameras and will not focus on a rangefinder. Enjoy!
@@zenography7923 Thanks for the information, I am looking forward to getting the Fed 2. Cheers
White vinegar diluted in water is good for killing mould around window frames and presumably lenses too - it's mild acetic acid. I've used a spray bottle and it works well.
Thanks for the tip!
I have the same Zuiko lens that has some fungus, so I have to decide what to do. I have already had it cleaned once years ago. I have stripped and cleaned Minolta Rokkor lenses, and a few M-42 lenses, but anything more complex I send out. All the technicians I knew of for lens recoating have all either retired, or quit doing it.
Oh gosh, let's hope I can find someone who hasn't retired yet!
@@zenography7923 Maybe on your side of the pond!
As many others here in the comments mentioned, peroxide is the way to go for eliminating / killing the fungus without UV lights present. Cleaning with lighter fluid is mentioned and is to clean and leave no marks. Blowing the dust away with a blowball is not strong enough to get all the dust off. I use dust-off cans. Kenair is just another brand. This will be stronger and easier to use. And last but not least, I use gloves to handle the lens elements so I do not leave fingerprint grease and moisture on the surface. This is a breading ground for new fungus.
About re-coating the lens elements I can say, I did find a business who will coat them for me. I have a Sonnar front element I want to re-coat. The costs are quite hight though. It might be a bit to much for the one lens element only. Therefore I think if you coat all elements of a lens it is more economical and might be a very good way to enhance a good lens to become even better. Just give it a go and see!! We all are eager to hear from you if it worked out well or not.
Thank you again for your video!
I'd like to find a way to do this economically if possible - we'll see how it goes!
Thank you again for an other great and inspireing video sir, I may say you have encouraged me to open and clean a cheap, chinese 85mm I really really like and is all full of haze in the rear element. It's an EF mount, all manual, no electronic parts so I guess (and hope) it woun't be so trouboled.
I'd like to pitch out a couple of tips for you sir: 1. light the back of the lens with a celphone lantern while looking at the front element, trying to light the inner elements and not to acually look at the light through the lens, you'll see how dirty and scratched the lens is, if it's just haze or fungus or if it has some more damage; and 2. While your videos still highly interesting, your audio levels seems to have dropped a little in the past few videos sir, you might wanna take a look at the audio waveforms and levels before posting your next video.
Thank you so much Zen, greetings from old Mexico!
Sorry about the audio - I messed it up on this one! Thanks for the tips too.
Retro Foto House has a step by step video on cleaning fungus from a Helios 44-2, mine didn't have fungus but I took it apart and cleaned the glass but I have to admit it's a bit battered and I had been given it, I have a couple of Zuiko lens I'm not sue I would want to take them apart
The helios is pretty simple to keep clean - fortunately!
On the Helios-44-3 lens, you need to paint the end of the front lens with black paint, and you also need to make the aperture black. Then, the contrast and colors of the lens will be better.
I guess that would help, thanks for the tip!
I have had to disassemble a number of lenses. The Kinoptik 5.7mm F/1.8, Olympus OM 50mm f/1.4 (the same issue you have in this episode), Zeiss Flektogon 20mm F/4, and Olympus OM 16mm fisheye F/3.5. Only the latter was problematic. It looks like the front element of the fisheye is 2 pieces of glass cemented, like your Helios. A cemented element isn't something I want to mess about with until I really have all the details.
I know exactly what you mean!
Very interesting video, I managed to get a helios 44m and a pentacon 50 unstuck and focusing smoothly, but not sure I would want to go further than that.
(And when it comes to changing taps, I’m even more of a coward and recommend a plumber an the Hans Grohe brand for best finish 😀)
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Always inspiring! Thank you. Would love to see more of you photos. Thanks again :o)
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I once ruined a 50 1.4 Zuiko trying to clean it. They are very difficult to take apart or outright refuse to cooperate. I just could not get the front and rear groups out of their bearings; they were forever-stuck. I ruined the whole thing.
The Rokkor-PF 55/1.7, on the other hand, was quite the charm to fully dis- and reassemble (not that it was a fast process by any means). Lenses are not created equally at all in this regard.
I'm glad I didn't have to go further into the zuiko - it didn't look at all simple. The Rokkor 58 1.4 is pretty simple too - as far as lenses go anyway!
I'm pretty lucky (planned) at where I live. It's the deep south west USA where the H word (humidity) is never uttered. I took apart a Zuiko for fun, just wanted to see how they tick, and wanted the glass out of it. Never intended to put it back as I messed it up pretty bad. Good stuff, thanks!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
i can see a new series coming up, take several helios have them recoated with different formulas and see which is best.
I'd love to do that - I'll start with the one first though, and see how it goes!
The Helios 44 series have so many different coating combinations , been meaning to do a video on it. Made the spreadsheet , but it's a 40 odd lens video. Kinda daunting, over the years the pallet shifted and expanded but within each iteration different combinations are used.
Thanks for making this video. I had no idea what to do about one of my hazy lenses I got second hand. Now I atleast have some idea of what to expect. The comments below are helping give insight as well. Not sure if I'm as brave as you are with taking it apart, but hey.. it was a cheap lens so maybe I will! Always room for learning. Cheers - Subbed.
So far the only thing I dare to "fix" was to take out the pin in the base, of the zebra 50mm tessar. I like how this Tessar images look and the pop colors too. So I took it out and now I'm able to use the aperture ring with the M42 mount... Also, this lens works perfectly with macro rings, for me it is not inferior to the Macro 50mm and 100mm takumars. I can not answer to your questions, sorry. Thanks for the interesting video.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Haze can have different reasons. Mostly it originates from detoriating lubricants. Some haze could build up, when the glue of cemented interior lenses got hazy. The third kind of haze I found mostly at Tokina lenses is not clearly explainable. It seems to stick on the outer surface of the lenses, but it could not be cleaned up. Has anyone an clue to fix it?
Perhaps a careful cleaning with some isopropyl alcohol?
@@zenography7923 Tried all fluids, alcohol, vinegear, special optical cleaner, all without success. It's like an extra coating....
Recoating? Absolutely ! Would like to learn what the deal is.
Today I decided to find out why my fake Leica chews up and breaks film, also in the process I noticed the shutter curtains were like a starry night, used vinyl restoration paint, looked like the shutter had previous repairs , seems that the lower part of the body had a fair amount of corrosion inside and was either squashed or swapped at some point, or the pressure plate is the wrong one, I sanded ,polished then repainted the interior, I eventually and reluctantly ommited the pressure plate. Then took all the knurled parts off for a scrub.
My chrap helios 40-2 still has some nastyness behind the front element however the filter ring has had a wallop , shame considering the time it took to remove the grit dirt and sand jamming everything else up.
According to "retro foto house" the later/latest Helios lenses are the most coated.
I'm sure rfh is right, I'd like to try a later Helios - but the coating on the early KMZ made lenses is really something. It would be interesting to compare.
@@zenography7923 I got three of them Helios. I'm not sure how early is early. My earliest one is a # 0048694 followed by a 44 M7 and a 44M in no particular order. All of them seem to have some coating of the the same sort. Just adding some additional info here.
@@zenography7923 The earliest one I consider the most characterful as it swirls unasked. One of the other two guys, can't remember exactly which one, needs to be forced w. much lesser swirl as a result. maybe I should do some more AB testing, but time is an issue.
Some bargain old lens out there and I just got a 400 telephoto for £5 and just needed a screw adapter for another £5 and instead of paying a fortune you just have to go back to manual zoom but wow!!!! I got an amazing 300 lens and 3 adapters for macro for £10!!!! Just but adapters and start collecting old lens because what would you rather lose or drop, something for £5 or something for £500?
Unfortunately quite a few Olympus Zuiko lenses have a front objective (containing more than one lens elements) that is a sealed metal unit without any means available for dismantling it. Even more unfortunately, the objective isn't sufficiently sealed to prevent fungus getting in between the lenses. I've had to scrap a couple of such lenses, and, to be honest, it's put me off collecting Zuikos. Lenses that are usually pretty straightforward to dismantle include Konica Hexanons, Carl Zeiss Jena and Nikon Nikkors. Canon FD lenses can be a nightmare, particularly the "new" FD ones, unless the rear objective can be removed without having to dismantle the very complex FD breach mount.
So the Zuikos aren't quite as repairable as others? That's a shame!
Judging by the casing (I actually never saw it in plastic) this Helios 44-3 production date is close to 90s, and it came from an "outsource" factory BelOMO (Belorussian opto-mechanic factory) as the logo shows, not famous Krasnogorsky factory KMZ. BelOMO lenses considered slightly worse by themselves, and they really had lesser coatings. But later production is the key to it's lower quality I think - it's USSR's decline, everything was falling apart, everything was cheapened to survive, so usually I don't even look at those lenses.
An expert on Helios actually says the Belomo ones are the best of the Helios
@@hotjazzbaby can't guess who do you refer to, but usually people say KMZ are better. Take a look at this vid th-cam.com/video/qnJ23-i6bgw/w-d-xo.html
I've heard different opinions on these lenses, some of which may be down to sample variation? In my own experience, which is by no means definitive, I've found the KMZ lenses to be consistently nicer than any other variety.
Good advice. I have a lens that's developed such a horrible case of hazing that I can't even get a decent picture with it. For many years it was one of my best lenses, a Canon FD 50mm F1.4 lens (the good one with the rotating mount lock.) The problem is the clouding is behind the front element, and while I can open the lens with no problem as I've had to clean the aperture blades on occasion, the deal that holds the second element to the back of the front one is screwed so tight, I've never been able to get it apart.
You put the lens back with your bare fingers? Wont that get finger oil all over the side of the lens and defeat the purpose of cleaning?
On the Olympus 50mm 1.4 there's a ball bearing under that first ring that provides the click for the aperture ring and you have to be VERY careful during that initial removal as the bearing is easily lost. You don't mention it in the video so I guess you got lucky or your lens has already been "declicked"?
You're right I ought to have mentioned it, it's very easily lost. It's still there on my copy though, despite my tinkering!
@@zenography7923 Glad to hear it! Thanks for replying. I very much enjoy your videos.
The number of times I've had to go searching on the floor for those pesky ball bearings (and sometimes tiny springs). So far, with the aid of a high-powered torch held parallel to the floor, I've managed to find all of them again!
@@robtweed1955 l know exactly what you mean because I've had the same thing happen. And I agree about having the light low to the floor. It really helps. One thing I've learned about a CLA job is to just have a lot of patience, and just walk away when you're getting tired or frustrated about something. Coming back later does help.
Maybe you might consider taking your mic out from under the cushions. 👍🤣
Sorry, I messed up the volume on this one - apologies!
Volume is extremely low on this video Mr Zen, I'm hoping theres no adverts coming up or im going to get hearing damage 😑.
I seem to have got the adjustment wrong - sorry!
@@zenography7923 You are forgiven 🤗 and also commended for your bravery in delving into the internals of a Zuiko lens 🥇👍. I have a couple of downloads of exploded diagrams of some Zuiko lenses and oh boy are they full of very thin shim type bits and there are several internally different versions of some of them too 😯 they look like a nightmare or incredibly difficult to dismantle and keep track of all the parts and ever get them all back in the correct order 😳!!!
For future delvings and dismantlings of lenses and cameras, I follow a chap here on youtube he is pretty good at this stuff , his channel is Mikeno62.
He has stacks of how to's in video or frame by frame and instructions on a huge amount of lenses and cameras 😊. Very much worth a look 👍.
Turn up the volume!
Sorry, messed it up on this one!
Maybe my commentary can be unapropiated but here in Mexico I had heard that some technicians use their urine to clean fungus, and makes some sense as urine contains ammonia
A practical, if unconventional, approach!
A professional camera mechanic I know dries elements very carefully over a machine that collects damp like an air conditioner.......
On another tack... Can you adapt ZUIKO lenses to work on an M42 fitting like Zenith cameras.... please....
Well, the lens register distance of om bodies is 46mm, that of m42 bodies is 45.46mm, so you'd have to use an adaptor with an extra element to account for the difference - so it can't easily be done. And for the cost of the adaptor - if you could find one - you could probably find a good OM10!
Recoating a lens can be expensive, not economically viable. Try to get another clean coated copy.
humbly may I suggest to raise the volume of your recordings a little bit? I don't know what's the standard in terms of volume and loudness on youtube, but turning on my speakers while listening to this meant that any other computer notification would be shouted out as loud as a foghorn and that's unpleasant :/
Some places used do recoating I think for around 80$ with technology now . I'm curious if we can do it ourselves. Someone should just make a MC filter with step rings
Now there's an interesting thought - a filter with coatings? Are such things available I wonder?
My method of cleaning a lens involves the same final procedure on all my repairs. First I examine the item, take it apart, then after losing parts and getting annoyed I move onto my final step in all such situations, which has always been 100 percent effective:
I take the item into the yard, I liberally sprinkle it with gasoline and then I strike a match and watch the son-of-a-bitch burn all to hell.
It's not really satisfying but I do get a sense of closure, which according to various sources is an important thing.
Occasionally while an item is receiving its final treatment I ponder what I did wrong, and knowing I was not to blame I feel a certain sense of possibly inappropriate glee as one might feel when deer season eliminates the pesky potential hood ornaments in large numbers, or when a bad president emits gasses while opposing gas pipelines.
You see it is all connected, the circle of life, the butterfly effect, presidents and lenses and petroleum products, and even covid, or as I like to call it: the Chinese evil shit from hell or CESFH, since acronyms are al the rage, although this one sounds like a lisp.
It's the circle of life baby.
I try to refrain from repairs. It's best for us all that way.
Во времена СССР "МС Гелиос-44-3" имел цену 40 полновесных советских рублей (тогда в стране американский доллар стоил примерно 70 копеек) и был одним из лучших объективов в Союзе. Сейчас такой объектив спустя 35 лет в России можно купить за эквивалент $10-20, причём в отличном состоянии.
Hi Nigel! Thanks for your videos.
Regarding the Helios 44-3 - the '80s copies have more prominent coating, if it helps in any way))).
From my own experience, my 1990 copy held the backlight worse than the Valdai 44-2 from '84 and the 44-2 MMZ from 1983.
Something similar to the video on this link was happening:
th-cam.com/video/h8u1E9M7hf8/w-d-xo.html
p.s.: 44-3 made before '90 has the focusing ring stuck in the adapter,
you will need to grind it or replace it with the ring from the '90's version (though you are probably aware of that).
Your sound is so low I cannot hear what you are saying
Oh gosh, sorry - is it quieter than usual?
@@zenography7923 I have much the same problem with most of your uploads. Doesn't spoil the content though! ps doesn't help I have fairly impaired hearing...
sounds like that guy on the Simpson's
:)
leave the Helios lens, don't make any changes to it
It might help if we could actually hear you!
Sorry, messed up the sound on this one...
I can't hear you!
food grade hydrogen peroxide will deal with all but the worst cases
Thanks for the tip!
Appreciate the topic, but too much BS to show how to kiss Sony's arse.
Funny video.
Helios is a soviet cheap bottle glass. Don't waste your money.
Have you tried a KMZ version? My 13 blade copy proved nicer than the Zeiss Biotar on which it was based.