Phoenix Fire Department in staffing crisis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Arizona’s Family Investigates rode along with firefighters to see the toll short staffing takes on firefighters and what it means to you in an emergency.
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This is becoming a problem nationwide. Big city dept’s can no longer meet the demand of the growing population. Sadly it’s never a priority for city counsel until something tragic happens. Keep fighting the good fight PFD!
Try living in the other 85% of the country where our firemen and most of our EMS are volunteer and it takes them 10-15 minutes to get an engine to a working house fire or 20 min to respond to a cardiac, because the county is depleted. its not their fault, but its our reality. These cities with paid departments have no room to complain.
@@smorris281 While it is worse for volunteer departments, I don't see why everyone can't complain untill some action gets done to help all firefighters
Growing pains are everywhere, my small town just has 4 guys for whatever call comes in, Volunteer departments are having a hard time to, but also, there are still Volunteer departments that are being selective, in personal, rather working with all to find a happy medium so the calls can be answered.
That's due to medical aid calls. The answer is so simple.
@@smorris281 the difference is that those volunteers have an option not to go..they can pick and choose their calls. I'm on the paid side and I choose to go to work and thus I run the calls. But if you are just starting out maybe those folks choose a different vocation because of the chronic staggering neglectful 911 abuse. Thus the staffing issues.
And yes I've carried a radio or pager 24/7 for better then 20 years.
Being a firefighter for over 15 years I've noticed we all kinda are starting to want out. Jobs are offering their employees all types of benefits the fd doesnt. Low wages, are a culprit, we literally have lives in our hands yet we are treated like nothing. Political bs, stress, and many other things makes this job a joke.
The issue is not more pay for the firefighters. The two main issues are fiscal management in regards to the city and public education. A real hard look needs to happen as to the cost of funding emergency services in regards to where the tax dollar goes. These guys need to have more stations and more firefighters and medics. The city will say they cannot afford that. But the city can for sure allocate funding for civil projects, parks, etc. Also, school districts continually raise taxes using “it’s for the kids” as the reason but in the end, the taxpayer is stretched thin from taxes and the city excuse will naturally fall to, they’re overpaying fire and police and that’s why there’s no money. The other issue is a culture of using ems and fire as a catch all instead of educating people to take care of themselves and see their doctor. Run volume is through the roof because people have a sense of instant gratification and do not want to wait to see their doctor. Vast majority of these calls are not truly emergencies. Give the dispatch center the ability to screen out calls that are non emergent and prioritize those that are. The argument will be said that an emergency is situational based on that callers view of an emergency. That is flawed at best. A chef doesn’t ask another chef to cook a T bone and the other chef makes meatloaf. No matter how much that one thinks meatloaf is a steak, doesn’t change the fact it’s not. Let the professionals decide what is an emergency and educate the public overtime because it will take a culture shift.
Good comment
YES. I'm saying this as my Humble opinion only. I look at the Canadian EMS system. Whole separate Department of Government. I hate seeing Expensive Fire apparatus run on EMS calls. I say if Fire Runs EMS calls, get back to the SUV as a response vehicle. Everything you said about people wants it here and now. Spot on. Go yourself to a doctor. Don't just rely on FD EMS, to just come as a freebie. Get you at the head of the line in the ER.
You are correct but pay does have an affect, people laterally transfer or test at agencies that have better pay and benefits. People leave agencies all of the time and many right after their probation period for higher paying Departments. Everything you said is spot on but pay and benefits also has an affect.
@@rp1645 Fire engines, like most modern motorized conveyances, need to be driven regularly. They can't just be left sitting until there is a fire. At professional departments, the apparatus are being used continuously for training during the day in any case. The average Engine or Truck company's response area isn't generally that big, geographically, so EMS calls don't put a ton of mileage on the rigs. It does ensure that the crew has all their gear and can go straight to the fire from one of those EMS calls, which I can tell you from experience is typically how it goes.
@@nmbr5ml
YES you're absolutely right, it's just in my area, the Engine responds to more EMS calls. That's the majority of calls. I'm just saying could a smaller rig be used, so these very Expensive Rigs, don't just RUN aid all the time.
Stop calling 911 for BS.
Fire/EMS services: Mr. Bobby what is the problem? This is the same left knee pain you've been dealing with for the pass 6 months. Why are calling 911 on a Friday night at 2:00 am, and it's a holiday weekend, so your private physician won't be in the office until Tuesday.
Mr. Bobby: I know, but I ran out of pain medication for my knee, so I need a ride to the hospital.
Fire/EMS services: Mr. Bobby, this not an emergency.
Mr. Bobby: I know it's not an emergency for you, but it's my emergency, and I'm a taxpayer ( tapping his foot).
If I'm wrong people, please correct me.
People don’t want to acknowledge this, but this is a large problem in 911, people treat EMS as a taxi to the hospital, and not something reserved for a true emergency. I lost count how many BS medical calls we went on, when the house was full of people who could of taken the patient to the hospital for their non-emergent issue.
@@joker432 EXACTLY!!!!
@@firefighting25 Yep!! Spot on!!!
lol! I was just gonna say we have too many soft people applying, and not enough that can do the job. And we have too many soft people calling 911 unnecessarily!
If they would stop sending them to bullshit calls like stubbed toes and b/p checks, call volume would decrease significantly
This isn’t a staffing issue, a staffing issue is when you can’t find people to do the job, firefighters jobs are always easy to fill. This is a city government issue, shocker, our politicians are failing us.
Your comment actually makes 0 sense. Congrats
@@skoden1313 too bad people clearly agree with me, sounds like you have a personal problem.
Not any more. Many departments are struggling to fill vacancies. Our deparmtnet used to get thousands of applications per process, now we are lucky to put 20 people into a class that needed 30. A quarter of those will quit within a year.
This is an incorrect assumption. I work in Risk Management and my Fire District clients don’t receive nearly the amount of applicants they did just a few years ago. For example, one district would have over a hundred applicants at any one time, now they barley get 20.
@@brendanorieGeneration Z is not interested in blue collar jobs.
Many departments don't necessarily need more firefighters, they need more ambulances. Being able to get an ambulance to a scene to load a patient and take them to a hospital means that the fire crews can clear and return to the station. Without an adequate number of ambulances and the EMTs/Paramedics to staff them, Fire crews can be waiting on scene for an ambulance to transport the patient for far longer than they should be there.
Others have already noted about funding, but I want to comment on the hiring process. A department will say that it is short-staffed, but then when you apply, the process can take months. You have to take a lie detector test, a psych exam, one physical after another, etc.
Correct. We go into peoples homes during their most vulnerable moments and we are trusted to do right by the public. An extensive background check etc. is necessary to ensure that we are hiring honest and trustworthy people. That's something that can't be compromised on. The public deserves to know that people of good moral character will show up to help mitigate their emergency.
The fire department command staff has a responsibility to project the needs of the public and start the hiring process well before the demand becomes critical.
Are you suggesting that fire departments just start hiring anybody and everybody off the street? Lower hiring requirements?
Incidentally, the bar used to be higher, and they used to get considerably-larger turnouts for civil service hiring rotations.
I would absolutely want my local fire department to take months to hire the right person for the job. I want my rescue help to be well vetted. This isn’t a problem. And making the hiring process less robust is not the answer. The problem is that there aren’t enough applicants.
@@brendanorie, there are not enough applicants because the pay is low, and the hiring process is needlessly complex and long. Imagine applying to work at Walmart, but the process takes four months, because they want to make sure that the people they hire are trustworthy around money and product.
In 2021, Phoenix fire had 225,406 calls for service. 21,914 were fire related, and 194,406 were medical aids. Maybe it's time for AMR, Community Ambulance, and/or Rural Metro to take over EMS.
What!? How does that fix the problem? Just pushing your veggies around the plate. The problem is to many veggies
@@honeybadger4160 No, it's enough staff and equipment to handle the call volume which will never decrease.
@@nobull4414 Question is will there be enough EMT'S willing to work for $14 an hour through a private ambulance, let alone enough paramedics for slightly higher pay?
@@edmundsenterprises9786 WOW! I made $12.75 an hour as a paramedic in 1978. Based on inflation (the screwing of Americans by corporate America) that's $38.34 per hour in today's money.
I worked private EMS before going paid fire. Private EMS treats their employees horrible, talk about turn over and you think that is going to solve the issues in Phoenix? Being paid low wages, operating busted equipment and be hounded about little things; boy that will fix Phoenix. In my private EMS days, I had to get towed in twice during the same summer because the ambulance broke down, wow. No thanks, I don't ever won't to work for the private agencies again.
One of the challenges with a fire-based EMS system is when you have that high of a call volume but such a low number of ambulances a 24 hour shift may not be the healthiest option.
Wonder why they don’t let the county or hospitals run ems works much better
@@emt0714 there’s 2 reasons why it’s best to have an independent 3rd party (like a city) run EMS. 1) the financial burden on the hospital system to try and supply the ambulances and staff them appropriately to operate usually isn’t worth it to hospitals on a large scale. Which leads to
2) in a hospital EMS system, a high priority is treatment and transport for profit which means if you call they will do everything they can to make you go. This creates a conflict of interest with objective patient care.
I’m a firefighter in a medium sized city in Texas. Our fire department runs both fire and EMS. We are considered a cost center for the city, meaning, we are never expected to turn a profit but that’s ok because we provide a necessary public service. Hospitals are generally for-profit and thereby do everything they can to eliminate and reduce cost impacts.
@@andrewwalter4884 there is a big flip side letting EMS run it’s self hospital based system tend to be more efficient and access and can use as a tool to bring patients into their system also it lets fire concentrate on fire calls, It also saves citizens money in taxes when your not paying for blotted fire/ems dept having fire run ems is probably one of the single worst ideas ever came up with.
@@emt0714 IFT, or inter facility transfer will come when you have hospitals running EMS. A single IFT in a smaller area could be almost an hour one way.
It eats up so much time and takes an advanced rig (paramedic staffed) out of service which is a huge problem.
Fire based EMS is great but if they're asked more and more it fails. Can't put a semi truck on a wooden bridge ya know.
@@emt0714Most citizens tax money goes to the education system, not fire or ems. I work for a large "bloated" as you call it, fire and ems system. We get 5 cents of every tax dollar. The school system gets 75 cents. Who's bloated? The old lady taking a header down the stairs doesn't care who shows up as long as they get the help they need when they need it.
Here’s how things have changed in my 40 fire service years.
Cities and communities served have exploded in size. And the increased population has increased the call volume.
The city that I did 29 of those years. San Bernardino Went from 10,000 annually to 42,000 When I was hired there we had 10 stations. 20 years later it finally increased to 12. It now stands at 9.
The authorized staffing had increased to 55 persons per shift. The low point was 36.
When I started overtime was rare. 6 or 7 you had to have a second job. Now with short staffing. 6 or seven overtime shifts ‘Mandatory’ or ‘Forced Mandatory’ in the same month or even the same pay period is very common.
I would say that the last 10-12 years of my career I averaged 60+ overtimes for the year.
In 2021 when you combine the effects of shortage of employees And Covid I worked almost 100 overtimes. And I wasn’t the only firefighter achieving those numbers.
This is yet another example where ems is overwhelming fire services. The majority of fire department calls are medical which helps them keep their budgets. EMS especially at the ALS level of care needs to be its own municipal system, maybe not nationwide but individualized by states. The fire service loves ems because it allows them to pump their numbers when the overwhelming majority of these guys hate ems and either became paramedics to get a fire job or left private or municipal ems for fire jobs after gaining experience. The fire service drags ems down, ems needs to be it's own fully third service that employs people fully dedicated to providing ems specifically, not as an adjunct to their original mission.
Amen
honestly, it's a lot harder to be an EMT than people think, it takes a while also.
It's an increase in EMS calls more than it's fire calls.
Exactly. And people call for BS all the time
@@keithjackson2035 Most calls now are life crisis (anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation), baby boomers falling and respiratory problems because they smoked like fiends, nursing homes, overdoses, frequent flyers, homeless. Only a small fraction of EMS calls turn out to be legit medical emergencies.
Every state fire department is in a staffing crisis.
They require you to train like youre going to the moon, pay shyte, risk your life for nothing. No thanks
That short statement sums up the staffing problem very succinctly.
Excellent. Phoenix will not have to process your application. Wonderful to live in a country with many career choices, no?
I feel a way to get more people interested to the career is too start early. Start introducing 6-7 grade kids into the idea of what it will take to become a first responder. Teach the children that keeping away from trouble will pay-off by having more career opportunities. Once the kid’s are in high school, have programs like Explorer programs where the kid’s can learn from actual first responders. Put together academic scholarships through these explorer programs, so the kids can move easier in to being a first responder.
They need more pay and recognition
Pay doesn’t fix exhaustion
@@jasony9950 in this time of era it does my friend
@@VegetaGrowsAtHome haha I beg to differ every morning I go back home to my family.
@@jasony9950 that's very good 💯
Phoenix needs to figure something out. The men and women in uniform will leave due to burnout and stress. These will be devastating losses to the community. 28 ambulances for 1.6 million people? Come on Phoenix. The city commission should be held accountable for the lack of resources.
God Bless You PFD!!
Well let's see, most firefighters have to be a paramedic (an occupation already extremely understaffed) pay in many areas are below 40k a year, many municipalities are trying to push full time fire into volunteer departments to cut costs, you have to be as clean (record) as a cop to get in, etc etc.
There's a shit load of issues that are caused by bureaucratic politics to keep costs low.
Does the Phoenix Fire Department salary really start out at 50 to 54k a year for firefighter emt. If so that is really low for that size of department, They should be at 68k to start. The cities always want more for less, Its getting old quick. If any body on a city council can't figure out what it takes as an individual to be a Fire fighter/ EMT/ Paramedic, then they shouldn't be on council, and don't call 911.
Disagree. Salaries should be inly as high as is necessary to recruit good people. Also, fire department training is conducted at fire department cost. $70000 is way to high for starting pay
One solution should be to make EMS and Fire two separate services. The amount of training and continuing education is takes to obtain then maintain both fire and medical credentials is significant. Also not all potential candidates want to do both firefighter and EMS roles. Redesign the system, increase staffing and split the call volume between two departments.
And then what? You’ll still have to send a truck to a medical call as first response because your box is 26 minutes away because they’ve been held up offloading the prior patient at the over capacity ER
This is a very uninformed perspective. Average burn out rate of a paramedic is 5 years. it's not the type of position that can be done as a single function for an entire career. Making firefighters cross trained as paramedics allows them to diversify their job roles to prevent burnout by mixing in firefighting duties and allowing them to have a break from the extremely demanding duties of a paramedic, both physically and emotionally. Trust me........firefighters and paramedics see things no human should ever have to see. On a daily basis. For 30 years.
Fixing hospital capacity and ER times is something the hospitals need to address. As for the need for EMS and Fire to be combined that's not the case. There are plenty of established and successful systems that split the two. I happen to work in one of them. Adding staffing, reducing call volumes and giving providers the time, tools, and resources to deal with stress is key. Burnout is going to happen regardless due to the nature of the job. Some people deal with it better than others and even then there's no magic fix to preventing it.
i think the better solution is take the capitalist money out of healthcare and fire, and pay these people what they deserve. the money isn't worth it for them that's the problem if you have to see death or destruction on a regular basis that takes a toll on you. and I know fire is better overall but paramedics don't make much at all. and fire is only slightly better form what i understand. pay these people that are actual heroes enough to afford a home and a retirement fund and people will come back, the problem like all things is rampant greed. while your house burns down some venture capitalist is opening his $10k bottle of whiskey because they were successfully able to not pay their employees wages that keep up with the times.
@@whiteboysixty5 Why? If fire only did fires than there would be no calling them for medical calls if they did not have EMTs or Paramedics. It is not a bad idea if the ambulance service could keep enough rigs on the street. Part of the trouble these is getting paid for their services. The only ambulance service in a county near by when out of business because they were losing money, Another town near by had to lay off all their staff because they were owed more that I think it was $500,000 from medicaid and medicare.
If the calls are 80% medical, it sounds like they need more medics in the city, not firefighters.
Well the fire dept would lose its mind if it couldn’t control ems
Many cities have both, firefighters are often also paramedics
Firefighters are medics, nitwit
@@skoden1313 That's my point dumba$$. Why pay more for the duel role? Just hire medics. They are WAY cheaper on the taxpayer. 80% of calls are medical.
Well smart guy the fire department deals with EMS too.
Phoenix is short on both PD and FD…wonder if the political direction of city leadership has anything to do with it
The fire department shouldn't take calls for crack heads using fentanyl!
They wanted the 24 hour shift they got it. It allows them to have 5 days off so they can work their real job. That said, they are 💯 percent right about the staffing levels.
they work 48/96 shifts which comes out at 2920 hours worked a year. A 40 hour work week is 2080 hours. This doesn't include overtime. Even though they "get paid to sleep", a department like Phoenix doesn't have many nights where a crew sleeps all night. Your post, to me, insinuates that they don't work much. I'd suggest you redo the math and compare how often they're gone vs you and your job.
@@jackiedaytona7681 I know exactly how much they work sweetheart. I’m a retiree. My point is not what you thought it was.
@@billmoran935 my apologies then. I've just never heard any firefighter referring to their side job as their "real job". My side job on days off is always the side job. I also didn't know where you were getting the five days off bit. Enjoy retirement
@@jackiedaytona7681 thank you for the reply. I worked 30 years in the Fire Service. My experience was that when the Union demanded that shift, dedication declined dramatically because the Firefighters were effectively distanced from the Lifestyle.
@@jackiedaytona7681 perfectly said
Contrivercial opinion: why not restructure fire and medical. The fire services, for decades, have been doing fire/ems in a lot of municipalities both urban and rural. The phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" is true, we end up with firefighters on ambulances that don't want to be there and paramedics/EMT's going through the fire academy that don't need to go. We should have Police, Fire, and Medical.
Of course this would increased funding in public health and a reduction in the Fire budget which they would hate and fight tooth and nail over.
Good. I am glad this is happening. The general public needs to learn what a real emergency is. The ambulance/fire/hospitals are too afraid to tell people "no, you don't need to be here" or "you don't need an ambulance" because lawyers and insurance. We have to respond to anyone and everyone because they think they are having an emergency. They talk about "lack of resources" but they refuse to talk about the rediculous calls. Here are some actual calls I have been on - 1. "hey, my medications don't work. I haven't taken any but I googled them and I just don't think they will work" 2. "I fell asleep on my left arm and now it feels funny. I want to go to the hospital" 3. "My back has hurt for 5 years, I need to go to the hospital". 4. "I threw up after eating too much and too quickly, I want to go to the hospital". So until these people stop calling or we can say no, nothing will ever change
"I have left leg pain. 10/10 pain."
"How long ago did this happen?"
"3 days ago."
"How did this happen?"
"I think I pulled a muscle getting out of my car."
"And you decided to call 911 now, at 2AM?"
"Well, the pain didn't go away."
"I have 8/10 pain on my left side, I'm having difficulty breathing, and I feel dizzy."
"What happened?"
"I got in a car crash 6 hours ago."
"Did an ambulance show up then?"
"Yes."
"Why didn't you go with that first ambulance to the hospital?"
I've only had my captain lose his composure twice. And I can't even blame him for it.
I tried to get hired for years. Now 35. Too late.
Me too, I heard “ we are trying to represent the community more” as I was always in the top 10% of every county.
It`s time to separate the medical personnel from the fire department.Paramedics and EMTs should be under the Health Department.
Just like here in Tacoma WA. Politicians putting civilian, police and FD lives on the line. So much for them serving the people.
Our city is roughly 200K and we have 3 ambulances. Could be worse. Mind you we have one of the worst crime rates in our state
That’s what happens when a city fails to pay its employees. And budgets are awfully managed.
May God Exceed Your Needs
Need more emt per population
These guys start at $100K-$125K with full benefits including retirement. Ppl are lined up for these jobs. More ppl means a further increase in property tax to fund it with annual increases raising it even faster.
What are you even talking about? Lined up? This entire video is about how hiring is suffering. You seem like you're maybe special needs or you have zero listening comprehension. Must be an American
I'd say it's simple demographics
In the 80's you couldn't get a job as a firefighter
In the 00's we were looking around the hall and noticing how few young guys were on crew
2010 we were struggling and getting hurt...my 50 year old knees weren't climbing those ladders like they once did
Now...we're all retired
And (tentatively)....there might not be many potential recruits that can meet the medical and fitness standards
When I did my mile and a half the pass time was 12min
Probably 150 applicants met that standard
They only interviewed the first 20
Hired 4 of us that intake
We saw this iceberg coming and ran straight into it
I suspect the population in Phoenix is growing much MUCH faster than most assume. Driving around the city one can feel the congestion like a weight.
I rarely drive anywhere in Phoenix without seeing some type of bizarre incident requiring police or FD response. I see traffic violations that make it seem like there is no law enforcement anymore like ATV's driving on the rode. Kind of feels like the city is imploding. I totally understand why FD personnel would need counseling.
Sounds like the city is trying
Would they ever recruit from the UK, I’d love to work in America🙏🏻👍
Now? Probably I'd reach out by email to the recruiting division and ask.
Actually there’s a lot of legislation being completed to allow individuals with certifications from European countries to come work in the United States. This is especially the case for paramedics right now.
@@austinpace5071 that would be great, I’ll keep an eye on that👍 thank you
@@youmadbro742 thank you, have you got an email address handy?
If Police Fire and Paramedics were paid properly more people would join the departments. But without proper pay Noone wants to work a 24 hrs to 48 hrs
It's not about the money. This is a very uneducated argument. No one wants to work for a system that forces them to violate their beliefs. Forced COVID shots and forced acceptance of the woke agenda is doing this.
Even though they get the next two days iff? Did you forget that little detail?
Prayers…
Won't help.
It’s not an ability to come to aid it’s the calls for homeless who want a warm place to stay, a grandma that is lonely, the frequent flyer that calls for every little thing. As sad as some of those situations are. They are not emergency concerns.
It boils down to this. City has to spend more money. It may have to raise taxes to do so. It's an age old issue. Money vs burnout. Run your people to death and they quit, get hurt, make serious mistakes. Constant recruiting and training new people costs more in long run.
Volunteers ? It’s old school but yea it’s not that hard to help out when needed. Most calls are medical if fire dept didn’t run medical solution presents its self
Not practical in this day and age. Will your boss allow you to leave in the middle of the work day to volunteer to care for someone with a tummy ache?
Not likely.
@@chrisbertrand5878 tummy ache bc they haven’t pooped for a couple of days? While eating blocks of cheese
Yea sir.
Funny, wasn’t a staffing issue until they tried mandating a certain useless shot
Yup exactly, especially in the cities this was and is a huge issue.
I’d love to join
Mhmmm...more fire engines or more ambulances?? They need more ambulances not engines/trucks.
No person is going to work in a city they can’t afford to live in. Period. If you want to fix the employment shortage, fix the housing problem. De-zone and de-regulate the suburbs.
This is happening in anything "public". It was inevitable.
Maybe the city of Phoenix needs to get back.to providing the basic needs first.
Not sure the staffing requirements on the ambulances out there but if they go with the standard 2 paramedics to an ambulance then they could help tremendously by only requiring one paramedic and a first aid/CPR trained driver or EMT. That would put 28 more medics out there in 28 more rigs as she said there were 28 ambulances. Also putting people out in an emergency response car to head to calls and run triage can also help a lot. Unless things have changed a huge amount, a lot of calls are BS and don't need a medic level response. An EMT in a Tahoe/Suburban with some basic gear in the back can be a runner car to these calls, do an assessment and advise dispatch on what is or is not needed plus provide care if needed until a rig can get there. Don't know if they use private ambulances to run with PFD but if not then that can add help for the problem too. LACOFD when I was there dispatched ambulances with the squad and they transported without medics unless needed to provide ALS. Sadly there is probably politics involved somewhere or unions.
Says the guy who's never been a solo medic with a new EMT on a busy truck
LACoFD has it's own staffing issues.
@@chrisbertrand5878 Could be. I worked EMT out there for ambulances that ran with them on calls back in the 80s, early 90s so I'm quite sure things have changed. Still unhappy they got rid of the 2+2 tones. Loved those things. :)
@@honeybadger4160 You're right. The state and/or county I was in required 2 medics or 2 EMTs on a rig. No mix and match. I know I spent time as part of getting my cert being required to ride along on a rig but even then when I got my cert I didn't know my backside from a hole in the ground. Maybe some type of graduated system could be put in place. Time in an ambulance or something before being put in a rig. I don't know. Either way they have to learn some time and they have to either get it or get out. They can either handle it or they can't. Something obviously has to be done to free more medics up for response. The ideas I came up with may be good or maybe they're crap but at least they're something.
A big problem with some of the departments is the paramedic ambulance transporting to the hospital and then getting stuck at an over crowded ER with a patient. There are plenty of people that would like to get into the fire service. Budgeting for more staff and equipment would be a start.
The issue is medical aids. Why doesn't the city contract with private to provide paramedic service to all or part of the city?
Barrier to entry, nearly a year of schooling just to be a paramedic and make the same amount of money to do less stressful work, not to mention strict hiring guidelines for medical personnel.
@@epokmanbrodie6247 Full-time paramedic school is six months. Two months didactic, two months practical, and one month field. Paramedics make on average twice as much as EMT's. Most city fire departments won't hire you as a fire fighter unless you are a paramedic. There is no "strict hiring guidelines" for paramedics.
@No Bull my paramedic school full time was a year and a half...its now down to a year, never heard of 6 month paramedic school in my area...im in southeast georgia...
paramedic in my service only make $2-3 an hour more then the emt-a's in our service...we don't hire emt-b's...no doubling of the pay here..our services emt and fire are separate, so no paramedics work with the fire department
@@honeybadger4198 That's because you are rural, Phoenix is a huge city. Plus, Georgia has the lowest pay in the US for paramedics and fire fighters. The national average for ambulance paramedics is $50K/yr, and ambulance EMT's is $25k/yr.
Are you telling me that you went to paramedic school 8hrs/day - five days a week for 1 1/2 years?
@@nobull4414 In Ohio para-med is 18 months of school!
Get a hold on the abuse of the 911 system and that would help matters
BUT THE REAL ISSUE HERE IS THIS.... WE CAN'T FIND 2 PEOPLE TO AGREE ON WHAT THE REAL PROBLEM IS. SOLVE THAT ISSUE, AND WE SOLVE THIS ISSUE.
Well, I'm sure there are plenty of strong independent modern women who would want that job.
Am in phx did not now they need people right now
Well if they'll take me at age 52, in relatively decent shape I'll do it gladly.
This is exactly why I left the fire service, overworked and underpaid are understatements. Nothing worse than thinking you have the day off to be with your wife and child you already miss terribly and being told you have to stay for another 24 hours, and by the time you do get off you just want to sleep. I left and never looked back. Someone else can deal with the all night long medical calls.
This is why ems needs to be seperate from the fire service, but iaff loves ems because those numbers help justify budgets.
Yeah, when you provide only dirt low salary, you are going to get no employees...... I say let everyone put out their own fire..... don't respond to the rich when their mansions are on fire
"Dirt low" is how much. Full truth please.
Bet they are exhausted from all those homeless/druggies overdosing on fentanyl.
If someone chooses to take drugs and overdoses, just let them meet their fate.
More than that are people wasting time and abusing the 911 system hour by hour calling for blankets the department doesn't provide, or just using the ambulance as a taxi.
Doesn't help when fire depts refuse to hire certain people. It's their own fault. Same with the police. That's why we have the worst of the worst
Who are these “Certain people” you speak of?
Fake News Fact: 400,000 calls in a year is 1,095 calls a day is 45 calls per hour every hour 24 hours a day. 2 hour minimum to move fire trucks to a scene, set up, pull out all their toys and equipment, investigate, pack it all up and drive back. Probably more like 4 hours unless there is actually a fire then it could turn into 8 to 12, even 24 so how can they handle a call every 1 min 15 seconds every hour of a 24 hour day 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. At best I'd say 2 to 3 call a day per firehouse is about 1000 calls annually x (IDK) 100 firehouses= 100,000 responses way down from 400,000 reported. Unless 3 of every 4 calls is a prank or goes un-responded.
Meanwhile someone who catches a ball makes millions lmao. It’s all backwards
Maybe pay them.
This is what happens when our politicians and society devalue such jobs and tell everyone they need to go to college
When we were kids: you need to go to college! Do you want to flip burgers for the rest of your life?
Now that we're grown: What, you're too good to flip burgers?
This conversation isn't even about college. Nobody wants to put their lives on the line like this while getting paid a third of what city cops make. Especially with all the training needed to be both a firefighter and EMT or Paramedic
Blame the union. This problem could be easily solved by sending private ambulance crews to medical calls, but the union won't allow it. AMR Paramedics could pick up the slack.
Pass the cost to the consumers seems par for the course nowadays, Police, Fire, and EMS all have barriers to entry that make things difficult. I'm trying to become a FF/Paramedic and will be paid for training, the problem is the 4 month long process to just get into the door turns many people away.
The “Union” has no control on outsourcing of public safety needs! Those are City rights!
Absolutely. However I suspect the city can skirt many of the bargaining rules. Elected officials hate to rile the union which will then spend thousands of dollars to unseat that official...you know, to"save the children."
@@cowboyx9380 absolutely
@@cowboyx9380 The unions lobby for this to not happen. They want to see FF's take million-dollar fire trucks, with a 4 member crew, to medical calls regarding grandma has the flu. The same service can be provided by AMR taking a 150 thousand dollar ambulance with a 2 person crew.
What does fire admin say? How about the City? SHow more than these three guys. I bet they don't complain about the boat and the jet-ski the overtime pays for.
Phoenix city council needs get on board. 1 million people 28 ambulances? Really? Allocate more money to Build more staions, buy more ÷equipment, revamp your ems system, hire more personnel!
Fill them with all female force
Not firefighters they are firemen
It appears since chief Bruno futures the amount of whining has grown as well . Ambulances are cheap compared to an engine . But also , you chose this career . Just shows when ems is placed as part of the fire dept and its taxed to its limits personnel should be rotated as to each doing specific ems , fighting fire and running accidents or truck company duties . I was never for running ems calls with fire apparatus and as stated 80% of thier call volume is ems calls .