Are 0.4 Nozzles Really Obsolete in Cura V5.1?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Chuck updates his Extra Fast Profiles for Cura V5.1 and then tests them against a 0.6 nozzle to see if indeed, 0.4 nozzles are obsolete. He shares the new profiles in the links below. All of it is explained in the this week's Filament Friday.
New Cura V5.1 Profiles:
Cura V5.1 0.28 Extra Fast Profile: social.thangs....
Cura V5.1 0.20 Extra Fast Profile: social.thangs....
Cura V5.1 0.12 Extra Fast Profile: social.thangs....
More Cura V5.0 Profiles Download Links:
-------------------
Best (0.12) : social.thangs....
Good (0.20) : social.thangs....
Extra Fast (0.28) : social.thangs....
Hyper Fast (0.32) : social.thangs....
TPU Profile & Sample file: social.thangs....
Filament Friday E-Leveler 2 for Bed Leveling:
amzn.to/3Yz3Vc2
Filament Friday Tool Kit:
amzn.to/2MOR00X
Filament Friday E-Leveler 2 for Bed Leveling:
amzn.to/3Yz3Vc2
Popular Prints:
CHEP Cube Test Print: social.thangs....
CHEP PTFE Cutter Tool: social.thangs....
CHEP Pawn: social.thangs....
********* $3 - Ender Style Cura Profiles Download Links: *******
Latest V5.x Profiles: rb.gy/5k981c
TPU Profiles: shorturl.at/V08bk
PETG Profiles: shorturl.at/RLEfI
(Free to Patreon Members)
**** Support the Channel *****************
Financial Support through Patreon:
/ elproducts
***** Ender 2 Pro (Shown in the video) *****
Creality Official Reseller Comgrow: bit.ly/3tnLuHn
Amazon: amzn.to/3sLuSaW
***** Creality Ender 3 Pro: *****
Creality Official Reseller Comgrow: bit.ly/2SIMa86
Bundle From MatterHackers: bit.ly/2FuKFpu
Note:
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
****************************************************
Filament Friday Sticker:
Send Self Addressed Stamped Envelope to:
Electronic Products
PO Box 251
Milford, MI 48381
****************************************************
Chuck's Arduino Book:
amzn.to/3tA31JP
Intro animation by Pablo Licari based on Filament Friday Logo by Brian Carter.
*************** Free Filament Friday Sticker **************
Send Self Addressed Stamped Envelope to:
Electronic Products
P.O.Box 251
Milford, MI 48381
**********************************************************
I’ve had many question how to load the profiles. Here’s a quick video showing how it’s done.
th-cam.com/video/EJD1hCJpM_w/w-d-xo.html
CHEP.
I would like to ask: In the linked video, I saw the CR10S Pro among the devices, can these files also be applied to it?
Or do you need some modifications? (Excluding the filament material. Because its characteristics must be specified.) Thanks for the answer, in advance.
Any Creality printer should work fine with them.
@@FilamentFriday Thank You very much!
@CHEP I’d like to see .5 nozzle
While the diameter of the nozzle increases 150%, the area increases 225% (I spent too many years in the pizza business arguing the difference between their 14" "large" vs our 16" large 😉) so you're actually pushing even more filament. Also, shouldn't the layer height with a .6 nozzle be set to .4 or .42 to make a fair comparison to a .4 nozzle with a .28 layer height (instead of the .32 you used)? In the end, I agree that there are use case arguments that can be made for keeping both nozzles in our arsenals.
A lot of comments seem to be focusing on volume differences of the nozzles and missing the point of my video. I talked about how the 0.6 size required more heat and less speed to get good flow characteristics. I was surprised how good my Extra Fast 0.4 profiles worked so I’m not abandoning 0.4 as Tom suggested. But I’m not abandoning 0.6 either. It has its place. In fact I’m looking at smaller nozzles now since Arachne handles flow adjustment so well.
What I should have said is the key advantage to Arachne is it expands the capability of smaller nozzles. A smaller nozzle gives the detail because essentially the nozzle sets the minimum extrusion width while Arachne then sets the max (2x minimum extrusion width) to reduce print time and fill in larger areas.
Hi CHEP, i think also that every nozzle size has its purpose .
But i have a question for you, is it possible to make youre profiles with temp setiings that are not locked but loading in from the filament ?
Or the other way around, how come the temp settings or now locked on the 5.x Cura profiles ?
Thanks in advance !
grts Eddy
@@eddyvanbladel2057 - I locked it because of user issues/feedback.
Seems to be another case of everyone jumping on a bandwagon yet again, without understanding the anything behind the scenes or situational occurrences.
Many thanks for all the hard work. One of the reasons I installed a 0.6 is I have heard there is less chance of clogs. Your 0.4 profile uses 0.42 line width so I used 0.63 for the 0.6 nozzle. It seemed logical. I got a very good benchy.
Use an Ender 3 pro machine profile after loading the .3MF and the profile will be there.
CNC kitchen just dropped a video showing how you can take a V6 nozzle and make it high flow. You should try it with the 0.6 nozzle, it looks like it would solve your ability to heat the filament properly and go faster.
These fast print profiles you create are game changers for me. They truly make the ender pro 2 a rapid prototype machine. I have moved forward into design because of them. Before I wouldn't try to print models I made to see the fit and would give up due to the shear amount of time , but now I print them rapidly to check the fit. Thanks again. Nothing like making your own designs and being able to see them come to reality fast.
Took a 12 hour print down to 8 hours and turned out perfect 😃 Thanks so much CHEP. You are my go to 3D Printer TH-camr.
I was also very skeptical when I heard Tom's argument. By the way, the 0.6 mm nozzle is not only 50% larger then 0.4 mm - it is more than double the size because the area of the opening is what matters and the area scaled with the diameter squared.
I will not give up my 0.4 mm nozzle any time soon - also most of my prints are mechanical parts where I need the precision and speed is of minor concern.
Exactly, it is actually 1.5*1.5=2.25 times larger volume everything else being equal…
A 0.6mm nozzle isn't just 50% larger aperture than the 0.4mm, because circles. The area for the aperture on the 0.6mm is about 0.283mm^2 whereas the area for the 0.4mm nozzle aperture is 0.126mm^2, so it's about 125% larger of an opening.
The aperture size has minimal impact on flow rate in comparison to several other metrics. Each .1 change gives you a 10% change in flow rate on the *upper* end. Look up cnc kitchen's recent video and look up vector3d's video on flow rate comparisons.
If you need higher flow rate, nozzle diameter should probably be the last place you look.
thomas sanladerer compared .4 nozzle (.2 layer height) with .6 nozzle (.2 layer height), both stock profiles
Chep compares .4 nozzle (.28 layer height) with .6 nozzle (.32 layer height), but one is a 'superfast' tuned profile, the other one isnt.
How can you compare a tuned profile with a non-tuned profile and state the .4 looks better when you chose a different layer height?
when slicing his models, the .4 model used 58g, the .6 70g. I assume he didn't compensate for the wider layer width.
In theory, if sliced correctly, the weight should be a lot closer to each other.
The time models can be printed in will always be limited by the flow rate, no matter the nozzle size.
which means, you might have to compensate with a slower speed when using a .6 nozzle, BUT you have a wider layer width. When calculating all of this together, you will have very similar results at .4 if tuned profiles were used on the same layer height.
Amazing. I am using your hyper fast profile and it saved me many hours of work. Thanks Chuck.
Didn’t expect that. But…I'm confident you can tweak Cura to take advantage of the extra flow. Great job and we so appreciate the effort and skill.
man I love your tips, Saludos desde Santiago de Chile. I been wanting to get a 3d printer for over a year, watching your videos and tips. 3 days a go I got a used broken Ender 3. for arround 100$ and in 3 days and a 20$ in parts I got it printing super nice! . Thanks again
Just printed a shelf that used to take me 7 hours in 6hrs 17 min in 3 hrs 13 min using the FFV 5.1_EF(.28mm) profile. THANK YOU. Your contributions are very helpful. I will be supporting your efforts soon.
I absolutely love the professional back and forth between the 3D printing youtubers! You embrace each other's work and build on each other in amazing ways.
One constructive note, the issue isn't simply that the 0.6mm nozel is 50% larger in diameter than the 0.4mm nozel, it's the difference in area, which is much much larger. The 0.6mm nozel area is 2.25 times larger than the 0.4mm nozel.
As you said that means filament can fly though the nozel and is much more difficult to keep at temperature.
I would love to see your attempts at optimizing 0.6 and 0.8 mm nozels, if you ever get the chance. I am mostly printing boardgame organizers and lithophanes, both on very different ends of the resolution needs spectrum. Some insight into fast and strong printing at the larger nozel size could be a huge benefit!
Thanks Chuck! Its fascinating to watch the innovation in 3d printing happening in real time.
I appreciate your work, but I don't find this to be a fair comparison... If you're not changing the wall thickness or top and bottom thickness between the nozzle sizes, then you are not utilizing the benefit of a larger nozzle. This is clearly the case as the 0.4 nozzle used 58g, while the 0.6 nozzle used 70g. A proper test would be with a set wall, top and bottom thickness, not x walls or layers. A better way to test in my own opinion would be a solid print comparison. This would eliminate any variation in walls, tops, bottoms or even infill, a true speed test.
It works better with V6 or Volcano nozzle. Stock Ender 3 Mk 8 nozzles have too sharp tip to produce really wide line. I use Volcano 0.6 nozzle (0.8mm inner line width, and 0.2 outside) and won't go back to stock. I adjusted Chuck's 0.2 Cura profile and it works awesome 🙂
Exactly, why be so biased over nozzle size lol
@@wojciechprzybylski6438 How you do 0.2mm line widths with a 0.6mm nozzle?
@@TheAndyroo770 Cura allows you to change the line width. Just expand the line width menu. Arachne engine make it even easier, because adapts width when needed
@@wojciechprzybylski6438 Sure but the nozzle hole is 0.6mm so how is it doing 0.2?
I try to explain things like this daily on fb groups and you just answer question it all with such a cool concise manner on questions I was going to ask sooner then later. Thanks again, Chuck!👍
0.4mm of plasticized filament is well balanced with the heating and cooling capabilities of a standard 3d printer. Without modifying the cooling capabilities (like hotter nozzle temps and blowing mechanically cooled air) and/or modifying the filament's capabilities (like narrowing the melting and cooling - glassing - window), you're not going to gain much by going bigger. Further more, the amount of fiddling necessary to make larger flows work to your advantage seems to be overkill. From 0% to 100% efficiency, the 0.4mm nozzle pretty much covers all of the bases.
I'm using a 0.6cht and I have no issue pushing 20mm³/s and even higher. With a 0.6 I went from 3 walls to 2, 5 top/bottom to 3. Couple that with cura 5.1 I went from 10hrs to 5.5hrs. Standard 0.6mm nozzles are only good for about 15mm³/s max with best quality being at about 10-12mm³/s. A 0.6mm cht handles great at 15-18mm³/s and doesn't have issues until about 22mm³/s. Adding another 15c to the hotend amd a cht will push almost 30mm³/s. My 0.4 nozzle can't push a 0.68mm wide 0.4mm layer at 80mm/s actual speed like a cht 0.6 can
I found that if I remove the nozzle completely, I can print at insane speeds.
0.4mm nozzle allows you to waste less plastic on top layer support infill. Also allows single perimeter walls of only 0.4mm and narrower nozzles also ooze and string less and have support material that's easier to break off.
Can't thank you enough. I'm learning so much from your channel ! It's awesome the way you explain things.
Chuck, love and appreciate the work you do for us , love my .4 nozzles and your profiles 👍👍💯
Aw jeeperz Chuck, lets call a spade a spade. The problem isn't the nozzle size, it's a lack of surface in the "melt zone". There are plenty of high flow solutions out there. For example, the CHT nozzles from BondTech drop straight in to solve all of the problems you mentioned.
I think this comparison is a bit wrong. Imo you should use same layer height because thats the Z resolution. After that use max volumetric flow in the slicer for both profiles. With your logic you can use a 0,25 nozzle and bet as fast as with the 0,4 nozzle.
If you have a BONDTECH CHT in 0.6 you will have enough volumetric flow to compisate for what chep is saying in regards to stock hotend but if you have a modded hotend and can get enough volumetric flow at the same speed as the 0.4 it should come out Clean on a 0.6 if it doesn't underextrude while it's printing.
I wonder if you might also need a higher wattage heater at that point?
@@reinux you won't need a higher wastage heater. Standard 40W heaters are never constantly on at full power.
Running a hotter heatblock temp is required to make faster volumetric flow rates achieve the same plastic temperature.
@@dmk_games that is not how the CHT nozzle works, the splitting send more heat into the filament and not just around the filament
@@jakobhansen1396 I understand how a CHT nozzle works and the basics of thermal energy transfer. Thermal energy flow = heat transfer coefficient × area × temperature difference.
The CHT increases the transfer area (and the disruptive shape may also boost the coefficient by better mixing the polymer).
Temperatures measured by 3d printers are heater block temperatures, not polymer temperatures.
The faster heat is taken out of the nozzle by a polymer (e.g. because it is moving faster (this gives the polymer less time to heat up causing a higher Delta T which per the equation means faster heat transfer - but colder output polymer)) creates a steeper temperature gradient between the thermister and the melt zone.
Increasing the temperature when pushing through higher volumes of polymer compensates for this by raising the temperature at the thermister such that the steeper gradient leaves the melt zone at the same temperatureas when printing slowly. (With potential negatives of degraded polymer if heated for too long or stringing especially on slower parts of the print.)
Additionally raising temperature beyond will always transfer energy faster to polymer which can boost volumetric flow limits - with polymer degradation being the trade-off.
However unless your printer cannot maintain a well PID tuned heater at the required temperature - you won't need a higher power heater cartridge.
Thanks again bud!, your extra fast profile has been a staple of mine for printing as long ive been printing!, that and the 0.2 variant is all I ever use.
Really, really interesting indeed! 😃
Thanks, Chuck!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I appreciate that you made videos with the Ender 2 Pro. Thank you 👍👍
Am I missing something or in this video is not taken into account the fact that if you print 3 walls with the 0.4 noozle at 0.4 line width, with the 0.6 noozle you get the same 1.2mm wall thickness with only 2 walls at 0.6 line width. That would make a bigger impact on speed... If you see the stemfie block printed with the 0.4 noozle is 58gr and the one with the 0.6 noozle is 70gr, 20% more material.
Basically you could have a much stronger print in the same time, or same strength strenght but much faster.
3:03 lightbulbs going off above my head, thank you for the great explanation
Excellent points! I love your cool, constructive and clear criticism.
Definitely glad to find your channel. Already bought your e-leveling and should be getting it from the amazons tomorrow. Going to try out the extra fast profiles RIGHT NOW...
I was actually using your hyper fast on my .6 nozzle before and getting great utility prints
But I'm really excited for this
CNC Kitchen just released a video where a couple brass nuts and a volcano nozzle can increase melted plastic throughput. That's super easy modification even for beginners, coupled with the new version of Cura could have awesome speed benefits.
CHEP you are my 3D PRINT GO-TO GUY for good reason!😉👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
My Friday now has a whole new reason to be excited. Thanks Chep, my 3D skills are growing.
I don't think this is a "fair" comparison (same on Thomas's video), because you are comparing a heavily/well-tuned 0.4 nozzle profile to a 0.6 profile that's stock and you can see that there is a big weight difference between 0.4 and 0.6 on stemfie block model.
i think its best to compare them after preparing a well-tuned profile for 0.6 nozzle.
I love the idea behind the thumbnail, I wish it was shown under Thomas's video 😄
Great video, as usual Chuck, thanks. I have a couple of printers and am trying a split strategy ... 0.4mm in one and 0.6mm in the other. I hope I didn't jump ship to 0.6mm to early :) Your videos are great help to us all and I really appreciate your help.
Excellent content... I think I will keep my 0.4 for now and appreciate the thorough analysis!
Sure, if you change to another nozzle diameter you need to adjust parameter to keep up the flow. I am pretty sure the community will provide good profiles for that soon. It's just a little bit early.
I guess the most important factor is the capability of your hotend. If this became standard, the printer hotends will get adjusted accordingly over time by the manufacturers in their new printers.
I'm following your channel from a long time and always appreciated your contents. But never actually tried your profiles until today. Wow, amazing difference! a good 40% less in real printing time, with a comparable quality (if not better...). I'm printing ABS on an Ender3 (one of the first models), and the only modifications I did were the nozzle temp (245C), the plate temp (103C) and the fan speed (set to 0). Alex
Great feedback. Thanks.
Thanks for all the great help on these profiles. But after trying your profiles, I have to say they are not working for me. The quality suffers greatly, I have much better success with the .6mm nozzle and profile and the quality is about 90% overall from .4 and with the time saving to boot. I find the quality suffers a lot with your profiles, so I will stick with the .6mm for the decreased print times and with better print quality.
Oh CHEP you're not comparing apples to apples :( you tunned your 0.4 profile but didn't do so for a 0.6 nozzle, leaving tons of things completely forgotten (or at least it looked like that) such as temperature, wall thickness, infill porcentaje and roof/floor thickness as well, among several other stuff. Im pretty sure not only us, you audience, would benefit from that fair comparison, but you as well! Great video nonetheless
I already have one account shadow banned for pointing that out, see how long this one lasts...
Yep, it's also part of the problem with Tom and his video, although this seems less thoughtful.
He was doing comparison to Tom's video, where Tom used the standard profile while CHEP used his own, sure if you tune a 0.6 profile its gonna be better but this was CHEP profile vs Tom's Video
@@Torskel so he should do a tuned .6 vs a tuned .4, otherwise it's pointless.
Basically, what I'm gathering is that you're having issues getting the material to properly melt fast enough with the .6mm nozzle because you're exceeding the melt capacity of the hotend, right?
Could you take another shot at the .6mm with a Bondtech CHT nozzle? This would be an excellent test to see if the nozzle actually works as advertised in a real world scenario.
All this talk about profiles making the difference... The real factor here is volumetric flow, not print speed. Most hotend configurations can melt a bit more plastic by going to a bigger nozzle, so your volumetric flow will be higher, allowing for faster filament deposition. In addition to that, only having to go through each section twice to get the same effective wall thickness as 3 walls of 0.4mm means less retracts.
I honestly think that this channel is creating a narrative around some form of "magic" going on with 3D printing. A properly calibrated print with a 0.6 will be faster than a properly calibrated print with a 0.4mm. Easy as that.
Please don't resort to using any special profiles for your printing. You'll have much higher control of your prints by doing your research and learning how to slice. There is no "one size fits all" approach to 3D printing if your really care about your results. Fine tune for every print, it only takes a minute if you know that you are doing.
While technically true, the speed increase you get is about 10% per .1mm. That means a .6 is only 20% higher flow rate than a .4. Unless your gantry is excellent, you aren't going to be doing much printing at 1mm line widths so you won't max out flow rate even with a v6. That is why I recommend *even without arachne*, most people *downsize* their nozzle to a .3 because the nozzle sets the minimum line width, not the maximum and a .3 is, about 10% slower than a .4. And as was shown by cnc kitchen, you get a much, much larger increase by going to a volcano nozzle at the same size than to a larger nozzle.
So, no, he isn't creating a narrative about this being some form of magic, he is just disagreeing with the mainstream thought which amounts to "nozzle size = line width"
I, personally, am able to not only print 1mm line widths with a .3 nozzle, (and thus get 10 cubic mm/s easily) the quality is also excellent. By pushing my max flow rate, I print at .1mm layer heights and have identical print times to a print at .2mm height. And that means *all* of my prints are about 2x the speed of what Prusa has for their maximum speed prints.
SirSpence - Excellent point. I will run some 0.3 tests of my own. And yes, you clearly understand the point of the video that many missed.
I disagree. It has been shown many times that perfect layer fusion isn't possible, especially considering impact strength. I mostly print functional parts out of technical materials, thus requiring the best setup for strength. Every layer line is a potential point of failure, especially since FDM parts are practically made out of inner notches.
If you only print trinkets out of PLA, go ahead. Use whatever you want. But please don't create the narrative that nozzle size doesn't matter! It might only be considered "true" in a small part of the 3D printing world.
Besides, I simply don't see the point of finer nozzles than 0.4mm for 95% of my 3D printing. The added level of detail is just not needed, and having less potential for improper extrusion caused by excessive nozzle pressure or clogging is a win in my books.
Once you go with reinforced filaments (the good stuff, not Prusament or cheap "CF PETG" with milled carbon), there is no way around using bigger nozzles anyways.
@@danieldeutschen7714 It feels like you didn't at all understand the point of this video, nor my comment.
Beyond the fact that this channel is *explicitly* not about technical materials and is heavily geared towards PLA, "perfect" layer fusion is dramatically improved by larger line widths which even a .3 can do just fine. I can think of *only* four valid reasons to go with a nozzle larger than .4. One, you don't have enough money to upgrade your hotend and are already maxing out its flowrate (unlikely unless you have an excellent gantry, which means you spent more than 1k on your printer, and you are *already* running a volcano nozzle) two, for some reason you need line widths of 2mm or larger, three, the material you are working with isn't compatible with a smaller nozzle and, finally, four, you for some reason *need* taller layers and that reason has nothing to do with speed.
In every other case, there is something *else* you should do *before* upgrading your nozzle.
Besides, I simply don't see the point of coarser nozzles than 0.4mm for 95% of my 3D printing. The added flow-rate is just not needed, and larger nozzles have an only marginally better potential for preventing improper extrusion caused by excessive nozzle pressure or clogging, plus the added detail when I need it is a win in my books.
@@FilamentFriday I'm actually tempted to give a 0.2 or even 0.1 nozzle a test to see what widths I can get on them and at what flow rates. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask! I spent a good couple months fine-tuning the settings for my voron which runs a v6 hotend.
If you want me to pass along the results, let me know!
Thank you! These are GREAT!!!
Good video very informative, I want to see how the bondtech CHT 0.6 and 0.8 nozzles i have will handle the faster print profiles. The nozzles do allow for significantly faster heating of the filament. Only downside is they are only made for mk8printers.
Fascinating stuff. Surely this is where a volcano nozzle would be helpful? A greater heating area would enable you to heat the filament quicker to attain that 0.6mm speed?
Considering the fact it's about volume pushed both profiles should be near identical if sliced properly. The volume of plastic to melt is the same over the same time. His claim that he can push more filament through a smaller hole with it being less likely to skip seems to defy thermodynamics. Either way I print at 70mm/s (infill 70mm/s, inner wall 40mm/s outers 30mm/s with a mk8 at .6mm widths .2mm layers and a .4mm nozzle) with headroom, so anything here should be a cakewalk. It is even less likely to skip with the same attempted volume but with a .6mm nozzle rather than trying to push it through a .4mm.
@@Smokinjoewhite Very interesting, and honestly a bit above my printing pay grade. When you say "his claim" I assume you're referring to Chuck?
After installing your profiles (especially 0.28 Extra Fast with 0.4mm nozzle) I had trouble maintaining nozzle temperature to a fixed point. It started to fluctuate, after PID tuning it was back to normal but can you explain this? Has anyone had this issue?
I tried the 0.6 as well thinking I can print faster but everything was of, so went back to 0.4 and everything works as it should
If find your comparison lacking. You compare your EF-Profile with a Standart draft profile, so a highly optimized settings profile with a factory profile. So even by that you don't give a fair comparison. On the other hand there are much more advanced hotends (CHC hotend) , nozzles (CHT or plated copper nozzles) and cooling solutions which would improve the toolheads performance enormously. A 0.6 should be faster in a fair comparison when keeping wall thickness, top and bottom layers and infill consistent. You are correct, that with the arachne engine, 0.4 nozzles can have a wider extrusion width, but with bigger nozzles you get more consistent results and stronger parts (better layer adhesion). Also you get much higher strain on the extruder when pushing the same amount of plastic through a smaller nozzle, especially on a Bowden machine.
I really enjoyed your content when I started with 3d printing, but to me it seems, that your lessons and knowledge don't move with the same pace as the hobby evolves.
You never feature new parts and components and often remake your videos with nothing really new. If it isn't your goal to talk about everything new there is to hobby 3D-Printing I can respect that, since everyone has their niche, but please don't give people wrong information because you won't bother to really make fair comparisons.
McNik - Thats a real generalization. I’ve covered many updates in my 400+ videos but my main focus is helping people new to 3D printing with stock machines. But I’m willing to try try your optimized 0.6 profile. Where can I get it?
Seems like a very harsh criticism all based on your opinion that 0.6 "should" be faster? Do you have any actual tests to back that up?
@@derekc423 It partly depends on where the bottlenecks are in the system. As printers get faster nozzles become more important. It was a bit harsh, I agree but Chep addressed the comment very well.
Curious as to why a nozzle would print several layers just fine and completely clog all at once even when temp was 220? I normally run 100mm through the extruder before a print and there was no jam or even a skipping of the extruder. Tried raising temp to 230 and still blocked, not in the tube, only the nozzle. Replaced and flow was fine. Very strange.
I wonder if this argument holds if you upgrade the stock hotend. The stock Creality is known to be not great, and it might be the real cause of those artifacts.
You would be able to print faster for sure, even with a cheap V6 clone.
I just noticed the thumbnail of this video is a direct correspondence from Tom's video, I chuckled a little.
Unless I'm missing something, you're comparing a standard profile for 0.6 nozzle vs a tweaked 0.4 profile that you and others have developed over years
Your Ender 2 Pro and print profile FFV5.1_EF(0.28) worked great on my Ender 3, cut hours off the prints I'm doing so thank you. Looks better that my normal Ender 3 profile.
Great video - it's all about optimization and you're doing a great job dialing in the .4 nozzle. I'm sure you can optimize for the .6 but the other factor of resolution comes in. I love the results with the Arachne engine. I've never been a fan of the Cura user interface. If only it had the S3D user interface.... I could have my cake and eat it too.
3:54 yes its faster but its also less plastics, its 58 gram vs 70. do you care to go into detail on that? thats around 20% difference in filament used.
"Raise the temperature, or lower the speed"
Volcano Hotend or bust 😎
I agree with you. I am not going to swap my nozzle yet as well. I am experimenting with PET from bottles and the results I get on that material with a larger nozzle are not good due to bad melting. My experience confirms what you said, but I want to make just one comment. You said 0.6 is 50% larger than 0.4. That is true about the diameter, but we are talking about flow. You must compare areas. The area of a 0.6 nozzle is 225% larger than a 0.4 one (Pi r2). To be accurate on the comparison, you should compare the cross section of the deposited filament, i.e., the product of layer height and nozzle diameter. So, you should compare a 0.4x0.28 print with a 0.6x0.18 one and so on.
Hello Chep! I agree with you on everything about the 0.4 nozzle and i use your profiles all the time (thank you very much for that).
But recently i start using the 0.6 nozzle and it helped me in one thing and one major thing for me that is the clogs. I had to adjust the flow, temp and speed but i think it turn out ok.
But what i would really like to ask if it is possible and you have the time to do one of your profiles that i like so much for the 0.6 nozzle? Like you said a lot of people is switching to 0.6 nozzle for whatever the reason (like me) and i would really enjoy your expertise on a profile that would include the 0.6 nozzle.
Really like your videos and i enjoy and learn a lot from them. Keep up the good work you do =)
As I stated in the video, applying the Extra Fast adjustments to a 0.6 nozzle profile doesn’t work as well due to the heat transfer/flow of the larger nozzle. And then I showed how the 0.4 profiles actually printed as fast as a standard 0.6 profile. So I don’t see the need to abandon 0.4 completely.
.6 diameter nozzle has more than twice the area of a .4
One thing I like about you, you can disagree with someone else, show why you come to a different conclusion, but conclude in such a way that admits the possibility that your wrong
That's interesting. I recently switched to a 0.6mm nozzles, because of that video by Thomas and I was actually suffering from over extrusion, even at high speeds and after calibrating e-steps. I fixed that easily by turning down the flow, but I don't seem to be running into any problems with not being able to extrude enough plastic to make the 0.6 mm nozzle worth it. And no, I'm not using a volcano, just a normal ender 3 style hotend.
The concept of slowing down for a 0.6 applies if you were running a 0.4 nozzle at it's basically it's speed limit, that is to say any faster and the hotend wouldn't be able melt plastic fast enough and you'd get underextrusion. Now, if you use that same speed and switch to a 0.6, you will certainly get underextrusion. If for example, 80 mm/s is the fastest you can go with a 0.4 without underextruding, you may have to slow down to 65 mm/s with a 0.6. (those numbers are a bit arbitrary but just to illustrate the concept).
Dude, after watching the video I noticed the clever thumbnail, nice one
Glad you like it!
04 nozzles can be tweaked even further. You can reduce the external wall thickness to 0.3 to increase definition and increase skin and infill lines to 0.6 to save time, and put the top skin layer to 0.3 again to have a neat top layer.
The main issue with larger nozzles, I print with 1mm too, is that lines are so thick that it is almost impossible to cool them down and supports are hard to remove. At least you need a double gear extruder to keep pushing the filament consistently. Temps go up and retractions become almost ungovernable.
why are people sticking to a single nozzle size in the first place, it's not a competition to see which one's the best, every nozzle size is useful depending on what you're making
Exactly. I use 0.6 for parts and 0.3 for miniatures
Agreed, since adding in the e3d Revo I change nozzles almost every print depending on what I'm making (though 0.6 is the workhorse of the nozzle set)
It's a pain in the butt to change nozzles all the time. It's hot, and I have to change settings, and my back hurrrrrts.
exactly. thankyou for not going the Tom or Chuck route and misrepresenting anything.
love the profile man...
after some more printing iv had a few failures due to y-axis shift
Perhaps a better hot end is needed to use .06 - like a volcano.
I am not switching to Cura 5 until they fix the Z seam problem. I am happy with version 4.13.1. Cura 5 is not able to put the seam on curved surfaces like cylinders in a straight line. The "Z seam relative" just does not work.
Awesome catch up on Cura goodness. I have been stuck back at 4.5.
I have a project that needs to approach 200 Microns; and haven't tried swapping a 0.2mm nozzle into my Ender5. Have you experimented with smaller Nozzles in the new Cura V5.1.
0.5 is good, imo it's the best in between choice.
God**it I just replaced my 0.4 by a 0.6 following Sanladerer's advice. And now you're telling me I should go back? With logic and evidence? 😔
No I’m just saying don’t throw away the 0.4 ;)
are you using the same horizontal loop count? 6 .4 wide walls are only 4 .6. If you leave the wall count the same, of course .6 will take longer, its printing more plastic. Weigh you test prints for us please?
I did prints. I’ve also shared the profiles. Test it and let me know.
And here I am with my .3 nozzle doing 2.5mm in 4 passes... A 1mm external perimeter at 60mm/s and 3 .5 inner walls at 120mm/s. The only reason I'm not doing wider for the inner walls is that I do additional walls on odd layers so that is an excessive overhang that has problems. Line width should *not* equal nozzle diameter.
It's not diameter you should compare it's area so it's not 50% bigger it's 130% bigger or 2.35 times bigger.
I have much joy in using a Bond tech CHT nozzle 0.6 and cranking .4mm layers with between 85% and 230% width (0.3-1mm) out with about 50% extra volumetric flow and a lot less layers using the prusaslicer variable layers to optimize quality and still harvesting time gains
Are the number of perimeters staying the same between .4 and .6 nozzle profiles? you will only need 2 perimeters with .6 where you would need 3 of .4 to match the same thickness.
I already giving up 0.4mm nozzle and went for 0.5mm hardened, why? I been using 0.4mm for a long time, I mostly use woodfill, and yes I get nozzle blocked a lot of time and worn out. Anyway short story, it is a lot better. I use ironing for better result too. If 0.4mm win win but I am happy with 0.5mm.
great review Chuck. Regarding strength to speed would you agree that if speed is equal, the .6 nozzle would likely have greater strength? I think that was (at least in part) part of Toms assessment.
Well, it all also depends on the type of nozzle, if you're using a volcano that handles much better the temperatures maybe you can go faster with the 0.6 without affecting the results.
Possibly. I was comparing stock nozzles though.
You completely ignore the fact that you can upgrade the hotend to something that can melt more plastic. If you add a (ultra) high flow hotend into the mix the 0.6 will be a lot faster than the 0.4.
What 0.6 do you recommend and where can I get your profiles for it.
Get something like a pheatus rapido. No changes needed in profiles,drop in replacement for a v6
100 bucks ?
Sadly things cost money. If you want to print faster you need to upgrade
@@TheFeday I get ya. It's just me as a person that doesn't make money of 3d printing seems pricey
on the second example there is a major difference between the models, 0.4 nozzle 58g, 0.6 nozzle 70g.
Probably because he didn't allow for the extra line width, he should have reduced the perimeter count to compensate.
That would also have reduced print time.
@chep please create fast profiles for Prusaslicer.
maybe this would only work on a high flow rate nozzle like cht, volcano or mosquito types
i Get 24 minutes with a 0.6mm bondtech CHT nozzle on the hyperfast profile (CHEP got 31 minutes with an .4 nozzle). still need to optimize for my setup but it is already faster than .4
Your channel is awesome!
The problem with this is that your not raising the temperature enough with the .6 nozzle. I've printed with a .6 on my Ender and .4 on my PRUSA for a long time now. Way before this. You would be surprised at how high the temp needs to be raised to flow properly and even raise the print speed more and still get great prints. The limitations become the jerk movement during transitions in the slice. But even with that you can fine tune it to hit just below the limits and work great. Try making a video showing this to help show that sometimes it's based on the printer amd temp. Because it is.. Still a fan tho 👍
great content - thank you!
Oh Jesus it IS Friday, man time flies.
Hi. You can solve all this by printing volumetric. .4 and.6 will finish on the same time by adjusting the speed
With speed comes faster extrusion and that might start skipping when it cant melt it fast enough or something or other, i print only in PETG, i have a small PTFE-tube in my Sprite-extruder so i cant go over 230C which i need if i want to increase extrusion with PETG
Yep! Also, line widths should not equal nozzle diameter. .6 *technically* can be faster but you are talking 20% if you are actually maxing out flow rates.
Great video. Thanks
Ive been loving the profiles! what about doing an upgrade to a Bondtech CHT MK8 Nozzle - 0.4mm and increasing the speed with that nozzle?
love to see that too!
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Chuck. Can you do a video on installing a Z-Limit switch on the Endeer 3 S-1 Plis or Pro?
I can open the project and create a new printer with your profile. The issue I have is I dont have an ender 2 printer so when I try and export the profile and then import it into my Prusa Printer it says its not compatible. Something about Standard does not exist. Any idea how to get your settings over?
Maybe I missed it, but the reason for the thermal struggle arises from the inconsistent change between heating surface area inside the nozzle (assuming depth is the same: pi*Dia, 1.5x increase) and volume of melted material (pi*r2: 2.25x increase). You need higher temperatures to fully melt the plastic. But does this matter?
So which is more detrimental to printing: increasing extrusion rate or having less consistent temperature throughout your print? Could be an interesting video
If you get same volumetric output with any size nozzle with a given hotend and extruder the nozzle size makes little difference. Bigger nozzle needs less speed/sec. It's all about volumetric flow.
Line width should *not* equal nozzle diameter. Nozzles can print ~3x their diameter for line widths. The lower limit *is* set by the nozzle diameter though. Nozzle diameters should be one of the last things you look at to get better flow-rate.
As others have noted, the 0.6 nozzle has an area 2.25 the area of the 0.4 nozzle. I think you need to do a lot more tweaking to account for this massive increase in plastic pushed. The line width being 50% larger has also go to affect things. I think this math miss might be why you aren't seeing the higher speeds for the 0.6
Do you have a profile I can use?
Nope. I can't find it right now, but there is an excellent video showing you only get about a 10% gain per .1mm. The area of the nozzle doesn't have a massive impact on flow rate as cnc kitchen showed swapping to a volcano nozzle at the same nozzle size can double your flow rate.
I've done some testing myself, until you are pushing 1mm line widths, most printers can't handle the speeds you need to move the gantry at for even 10 cubic mm/s. A .3mm nozzle on a v6 can push that width at .2mm layer height at 60 mm/s and get 10 cubic mm/s. Increasing nozzle size would, *at most* let me boost that speed to 90mm/s which for an external perimeter would hurt the quality on most printers.
Nozzle diameter sets the minimum linewidth and your layer heights. It has rather minimal impact on flow rate. 15% per .1mm at most.
I'd much rather run a smaller nozzle so I can get those details than a larger one so I can get no benefit.
Are there Prusaslicer or Superslicer versions of these super fast profiles?
Chep, you don’t get it. This isn’t for 18 min Chep cubes 😂 also, you’re not using the same profiles for the tests, so why are you comparing them?
Agreed, bit of an unfair comparison. He talks about how you have to slow down for a 0.6, but kind of glosses over the main point of a 0.6 - you can use less walls and less nozzle distance to travel overall because you're pushing out more plastic. Even before Arachne, I switched from a 0.4 to 0.6 for everything I print, slowed the speed down a bit, and get faster prints at very nearly the same quality (not to mention printing "sparkly" or wood filaments no longer clogs my nozzles constantly). Arachne should help the print quality of a 0.6 catch up to a 0.4.