Yeah, a bunch of people said based when he finally decided to clause, that part was just a decision in my opinion, both options were good in their own merit, but when he said this, that was what was truly based
Yeah, he didn't even want to calc although that would totally be fine. Calcing it at that point is not unfair in any way. The problem is that if he steers the fight and he wins, he obviously won't clause it. So clausing it after a wipe would be questionable. Seeing the calc and deciding not to clause and living with those consequences would be completely ok as long as you commit to the steer. Totally support resetting here, the fight didn't even start. If the bug happened mid fight after a steer it would be questionable, but this is very clear.
Always love when Jan goes: my run, my rules. Get lost if you don’t like it. Like he’s just playing a game he enjoys. Nobody should be back seat gaming or trying to take him to HR for breaking the “rules”.
@@Lekram009 no on Twitter he says he’s been busy with recording and writing a script for a new video. He planned this before the bug and says he will be back Monday!
Both were correct decisions. One was fair to the player, and the other was a risky content play that if he pulled off would have been f***ing legendary, and if he didn't it would have been an honorable wipe for playing it out.
The only reason it was the right decision is because he made it about his own run. I happen to agree with it, and I’d do it too, and it’s cool that he paused to make the decision, but ultimately it’s only correct because it’s what he did. Y’know, because it’s his run.
Clausing seems fair here. These nuzlockes hinge entirely on the notion that the AI is predictable and can be played around consistently (barring crits and other hax). If there's a scenario where that's not true due to programming error, then the player shouldn't be punished for it
My only issue here is that it could just be that he was extremely unlucky. He said it himself, that there was a world there where he just never switches and struggles. I probably wouldn’t clause it for that reason, but I don’t care that he did. Its his run.
@@joaomarcostorres9457 I mean, could it? Apparently this is a known bug that multiple people have talked about. Do we think there's a chance that all of them just happened to get unlucky on a 1/1000 roll
@@SoyDrinker its an undocumented bug. Not that many ppl have talked about it. I haven’t watched the full stream, but that’s what I got from the daily video. Idk how u got that info.
Everybody is different. There is no shame in clausing a self imposed challenge. Those in Pchal's discord know that recently Nathan Melons made it to Pokemon Reborn's Elite 4 with a 1 death means reset whole game ruleset. He made it past 1. the Fiore Gauntlet (12 pokemon vs 32 pokemon) 2. the Glass Gauntlet (6 pokemon vs 30 pokemon) 3. hundreds of rival or boss fights 4. all 18 gym leaders (one for each type) 5. several fights where enemy trainers have hacked 252 EVs in every stat. without losing a single pokemon. He then lost a single pokemon on the Elite 4 due to a low kick weight bug and reset his entire save file losing 100 hours of game progress and over a hundred hours of cooking. Some people take this thing way too seriously.
@@Zthewise Nathan here, the weight bug is where a mon is exactly on the threshold between low kick ranges (so for example, 100 kg) it still counts it as 80 base power due to a typo in the code. Calc doesn't account for this, nor did anyone even know about it before it happened to me. I didn't clause it because I couldnt possibly feel good about a win when I have to clause some bs mid e4
That seems fair. Losing to a bug/glitch isn’t fair, especially when it is the second turn and the whole fight hinges on it going the way you’ve cooked.
The absolute BLUE BALL I experienced staying up till midnight while sick listening to him plan for the fight for hours, only to not even do the gym battle was crazy. Totally the right decision to reset tho. Knowledge of the bug would have changed the planning so you should get the chance to reset if it wasn't your fault
Ah the great "Winona... Dilemma" ;) I agree with the clause personally, and that the runner makes their own rules. One of the reasons I like pChal is he prioritizes consistency. I was hoping he'd clause it and then run it anyway for fun/content just to see if he could somehow clutch it, but from what he was saying it sounded pretty dire.
Here's why it's justifiable to clause a disadvantageous bug, while not clausing an advantageous bug: A single disadvantageous bug can cause you to wipe. A single advantageous bug cannot cause you to win the entire run.
What Jan mentioned in the video is "would I clause an advantageous bug that SAVES the run", so imagine he's in the middle of wiping and hits a bug that saves it. Different situation. I agree with clausing here, but your logic doesn't solve it.
@Fabiocean2000 yeah I noticed ppl mentioning making a save state, etc. Hopefully he streams tonight, got a little worried when he wasn't online last night
@@Fabiocean2000even if it's proved not to be a bug its prolly easy enough to play it back to that state and continue the fight, given how early it was.
Interesting thing- the source code that was the basis for Run and Bun (DizzyEgg's pokeemerald-expansion) didn't actually have any code at all for Spirit Shackle beyond it's damage. This presumably means that whatever coding was done to implement Spirit Shackle's trapping effect was done by Dekzeh himself. Don't want to sound like I'm blaming Dekzeh for this bug, rather that there's a greater margin for error when you're one person coding than a whole conglomerate checking on eachother's code.
50/50 each turn means that this is full within the odds that Staraptor never switches out. The only way to determine if it is a bug is to set a save state, and run through it several more times.
@@bassdasdwadsasdasw Yeah, it happened to a couple of persons prior. This was known. Not faulting pchal here, but forcing switch out in Run & Bun through AI manipulation really should make you question what you end up provoking as a decision. He willingly uses Spirit Lock, he just doesn't know how to properly steer it here.
@@Goldeneye3336 Spirit shackle is a ghost move, it shouldn't affect normal types, if it is affecting them like how brick break still breaks screens on a ghost it is totally reasonable to expect an animation to play like it does with brick break. This wasn't him unable to steer, it is undocumented behavior that you couldn't be expected to know before hand given the official documentation. If the bug was included in the official documentation bug listings, or the AI documentation it would be a different matter. Knowledge of every person's run who has ever run the game is not a reasonable expectation to have on what is documented behavior or not If you are against clausing all bugs in every scenario that's a different matter, but its not due to a miss-play or lack of reasonably attainable knowledge
10:38 Hey IUndercoverTroll. I did my laundry on tuesday. Not only that, but I folded it and put it away. Normally I fold it and it sits on the floor until I wear it. Not this week.
Good job! I've been trying to do better at actually getting my laundry actually folded as well. And I think I'm doing better at it. Hopefully this stays, and hopefully you'll keep doing it as well!
What makes me watch your content more than it being pokemon and awesome in itself is how you hold yourself as a person. It might just be some silly computer game but you make sure you are conducting yourself correctly within your morales and ethics and that is highly commendable. While it would have been beyond awesome to see you steer this fight and while it's fully acceptable for you to clause this fight you dont need any justification other than what you always tell us: "your run, your rules" stay GOATED.
„My run my rules“ is the best decision here. If people don’t respect you/your run because of not knowing some niche interaction barely anyone knows about, their respect is worthless. Messing up during a fight is different but not KNOWING such a niche interaction says nothing about someones battle strategy, it just means noone can know everything about a game with so many factors.
Clause it. I'm here for the big brain well executed strategies. The hype pop off moments when things go bad is entertaining but like you said if you later run into an unrecoverable interaction bug on the E4 you want to be able to clause it.
I think it would be fairly easy to test if this actually is a bug. Emulators have save states and speed up, so just restart the fight several times and spam spirit shackle until either the AI does switch (in which case it's not a bug and Jan just got extremely unlucky), or you've done enough trials to convince yourself that it is a bug. Doing the fight just 3 times and not seeing a single switch after 30 spirit shackles would be 1 in a billion - pretty convincing IMO
He'd probably be pretty happy to truck to a 1/512 chance of getting fucked. Sounds like he probably wiped if it didn't work, So if not a bug and he legit got that unlucky he'd probably be okay with it. But it seems 100% a bug
I feel him, sure clause it. You've been working your ass off with a bad box to get here. But, it would have been funny to see you struggle and restart as well. But like you said at the end, your run, your rules.
I really appreciate the commitment to consistency. The real question is not "what do I do in this situation?", it's "what do I do the next time this happens?" and Jan knows that
Shouldve committed to the clause, and then put on the sunglasses and went for it, win or lose you clause it and go back then just act like it never happened.
I mean, he could run it back to the fight, and test to see if the bug persists. The chances of two separate encounters producing the same no-switch result just purely on the math is like 1/1048576
Pre decision, I love the integrity that Jan approaches these runs with. Internally consistent ruleset, keeping results from documented bugs but considering allowing for clause aince rhis was undocumented. The logic is sound; if you'd clause the same at E4, clause here too.
The feeling, when you could not watch the pchal video yesterday, so you get to watch 2 back to back. Man this shit gets me excited. Love you good sir, please keep doing things you enjoy, they come out as such good videos. ❤
This episode was riveting in its subversive nature. Instead of focusing on cooking and battling, it focuses on Jan's moral dilemma regarding what it means to clause, and the temptation of clausing in how it can be a slippery slope for him.
The way I'm thinking is, what if an enemy used sprit shackle on you, you swapped in a normal type to pivot and wanted to switch again but couldn't due to it locking you in despite the attack not going through? Id say absolutely clause that.
Okay, but what if this isn't because of Spirit Shackle working on normal types, but instead the AI Thinking it is trapped and therefore not switching. If someone wants to prove/disprove this as a bug, just get to winona with a basculegion, then do these same turns like 10, 20, 50, 100 times. If she switches in any of these after spirit shackle, that would prove it was horrendous luck on Jan's part
@JustSomeoneRandom1324 i mean, if AI thinks it is locked despite not actually being locked it is effectively the same as being locked. It is not a human player that would have maybe tried to switch anyway because a human would think "i am going to struggle if i dont switch, im therefore going to switch". The algorithm would just never let it even attempt the switch. I don't know if that made sense to read through i just woke up and maybe my thoughts are a little incoherent :/
it would've been pretty simple to prove as a bug to be fair by just burning all your shadow sneaks on it. it was still plausible likelihood to not be where he left it(shiny probability basically), but after all sneaks it'd be genuinely practically impossible.
@@MegamanStarforce2010 the ai thinks its locked in because of spirit shackle regardless of whether it hit or not. and its been confirmed it was an undocumented bug
I'd have been conflicted too, but I'm pretty sure you made the right decision. This is not expected behaviour, and it isn't well enough documented for you to know about it, unless you had randomly stumbled upon it. Looking forward to seeing what you'll cook
He’s 100% entitled to make his rules and they make sense. Despite that I would love for him to go for it. It’s a hard and exhausting game but he’s only on attempt 5 after all
@@Goldeneye3336 the entirety of dekzehs discord is not a valid body of knowledge to expect someone to have consumed when official documents have been created to record keep the games behavior
10/10 times I'd do the same. I might mess with myself later by calcing off-stream to see if I could have managed, but otherwise, once youve already reset, it doesnt matter anymore.
Clause is fine with me. I loved the fact you didn't calc it out. For me the only thing important is the display of an ethical attitude, and I bleiev this was it. Can't wait to see the real Winona
The fight had no other factors of being beneficial or detrimental like bad crits or smth to avoid, so I think there's no johns to be called here. Looking forward to the new cook
I wish he wouldve claused it, but steered for the content just to see if he could, but with the understanding that he still has to go back/gets to go back regardless of outcome Right decision based on Your Run Your Rules clause
Only thing you could have done is start sneaking to definitively prove the bug (or learn if that would un-bug it). You've said for years nuzlockes are your own set of rules. Do your thing
The fight has to be recooked and he needs to find another line either way. I think once the first Spirit Shackle has been clicked, the locked-in effect has already been applied, so it wouldn’t switch no matter what.
pretty much the only time I’d consider a wipe to not be a reset is if I got fucked over by a bug, like what happened here. No shame in saying “fuck you” back to the game when it pulls it. Anyone who disagrees with clausing a wipe that you had no control over can kick rocks.
Actually really torn here too Chef. Dupe the save file, play it out for “alternate reality” content in a standalone vid later. “Can I Cook Myself Out of This Bugged Battle?”
Definitely fine to Clause but I feel like he should’ve also played it out for content. He could’ve said I’m causing it and resetting even if I win and just tried to see if he could save it
this seems reasonable, if there is an AI doc and an AI bug list and something happens that should never happen you run it back, i see no counter argument to this.
I think it would've been fair to say 'okay no matter what happens we are causing this' and then play it out for the.content anyway and reset after whatever happens
I'd clause it as well, and was thinking of the beneficial ones while it was stated being part of the clause. If it's not intended, then it's not honest either way.
Nuzlocke Virtue Council will hear about this. And promptly go TOS themselves, Jan is OK with it, so I'm OK with him playing his run as he sees fit. After he plays it his way, I hope he goes back and plays it out from that position just to see if he could steer it.
I've only seen people saying it was the right move to clause it, so I'm not sure who he's telling to fuck off lol. Respectable play anyway, even if a steer on that fight would've been hype
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.922 | 10 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zmV5HRIxIBI/mqdefault.jpg)
“My run, my rules. Go TOS yourself.”
Hell yeah.
Yeah, a bunch of people said based when he finally decided to clause, that part was just a decision in my opinion, both options were good in their own merit, but when he said this, that was what was truly based
Honestly what makes this decision correct is the refusal to steer in the fight in any way. The bug happened, paused, pondered, reset.
Yeah, he didn't even want to calc although that would totally be fine. Calcing it at that point is not unfair in any way. The problem is that if he steers the fight and he wins, he obviously won't clause it. So clausing it after a wipe would be questionable. Seeing the calc and deciding not to clause and living with those consequences would be completely ok as long as you commit to the steer.
Totally support resetting here, the fight didn't even start. If the bug happened mid fight after a steer it would be questionable, but this is very clear.
Still would like to see if luck be in his favor to win the fight.
Always love when Jan goes: my run, my rules. Get lost if you don’t like it.
Like he’s just playing a game he enjoys. Nobody should be back seat gaming or trying to take him to HR for breaking the “rules”.
I hope he'll finish the game, seems he lost interest after the bug and didn't stream for 2 days now.
@@Lekram009 no on Twitter he says he’s been busy with recording and writing a script for a new video. He planned this before the bug and says he will be back Monday!
@@codycampbell8299 ohhh okay. Good to hear. Thanks!
That was definitely the right decision
I think this needs to be the top comment in every Pchal daily video
Both were correct decisions. One was fair to the player, and the other was a risky content play that if he pulled off would have been f***ing legendary, and if he didn't it would have been an honorable wipe for playing it out.
The only reason it was the right decision is because he made it about his own run. I happen to agree with it, and I’d do it too, and it’s cool that he paused to make the decision, but ultimately it’s only correct because it’s what he did. Y’know, because it’s his run.
@@Genny207bro if he somehow figured that shit out he could make a video on that alone haha
Clausing seems fair here. These nuzlockes hinge entirely on the notion that the AI is predictable and can be played around consistently (barring crits and other hax). If there's a scenario where that's not true due to programming error, then the player shouldn't be punished for it
Good nuzlockers (like Jan, not me) play around crits!
My only issue here is that it could just be that he was extremely unlucky. He said it himself, that there was a world there where he just never switches and struggles.
I probably wouldn’t clause it for that reason, but I don’t care that he did. Its his run.
@@joaomarcostorres9457 I mean, could it? Apparently this is a known bug that multiple people have talked about. Do we think there's a chance that all of them just happened to get unlucky on a 1/1000 roll
@@SoyDrinker its an undocumented bug. Not that many ppl have talked about it. I haven’t watched the full stream, but that’s what I got from the daily video. Idk how u got that info.
@@joaomarcostorres9457he'll mention this in the next video, but it's now confirmed to be a bug. It's documented now, but wasn't at the time.
Jan: clauses the fight
The NVC: and you will pay for it
NVC is too busy hating trans people to care nowadays
Petition to change the name to "The Winona Debacle"
Better yet, "The Winona Trolley"
"The Winona Fight Clickbait"
Winona incident
Winona gate scandal
Just add the metapod 1v1 from the anime to the thumbnail
Everybody is different. There is no shame in clausing a self imposed challenge. Those in Pchal's discord know that recently Nathan Melons made it to Pokemon Reborn's Elite 4 with a 1 death means reset whole game ruleset. He made it past
1. the Fiore Gauntlet (12 pokemon vs 32 pokemon)
2. the Glass Gauntlet (6 pokemon vs 30 pokemon)
3. hundreds of rival or boss fights
4. all 18 gym leaders (one for each type)
5. several fights where enemy trainers have hacked 252 EVs in every stat.
without losing a single pokemon.
He then lost a single pokemon on the Elite 4 due to a low kick weight bug and reset his entire save file losing 100 hours of game progress and over a hundred hours of cooking. Some people take this thing way too seriously.
Nathan Melons is a real man
@@Js-eq7ydRuh Roh! Toxic Masculinity detected!
@@Js-eq7ydlmao give it a rest virgin
Low kick weight bug? Please explain, I've never played reborn.
@@Zthewise Nathan here, the weight bug is where a mon is exactly on the threshold between low kick ranges (so for example, 100 kg) it still counts it as 80 base power due to a typo in the code. Calc doesn't account for this, nor did anyone even know about it before it happened to me. I didn't clause it because I couldnt possibly feel good about a win when I have to clause some bs mid e4
That seems fair. Losing to a bug/glitch isn’t fair, especially when it is the second turn and the whole fight hinges on it going the way you’ve cooked.
Slowbro using slack off sure as hell brought a lot of memories
10:41 goated chatter “Hey you. Pchal viewer. Go do your laundry. Now. “
Literally a pile of laundry that needs folding and putting away next to me. Bloody eerie.
@@tryagainbragg3554 Well? Are you going to put it away or not.
@@IUndercoverTroll At this point nope, tomorrow when im off work...
This is the end of mid game and I haven't seen anyone against him clausing
"She lock onto my spirit till I liquidate"
The absolute BLUE BALL I experienced staying up till midnight while sick listening to him plan for the fight for hours, only to not even do the gym battle was crazy.
Totally the right decision to reset tho. Knowledge of the bug would have changed the planning so you should get the chance to reset if it wasn't your fault
He hasn't streamed since this... hoping we ain't gonna go dry tomorrow.
Ah the great "Winona... Dilemma" ;)
I agree with the clause personally, and that the runner makes their own rules. One of the reasons I like pChal is he prioritizes consistency. I was hoping he'd clause it and then run it anyway for fun/content just to see if he could somehow clutch it, but from what he was saying it sounded pretty dire.
Yeah he had 2 planned sacks already and shaymin takes minimum 1 more, maybe all the rest.
insane display of integrity from our boy pchal
That archeops sprite is hilarious lol. They couldn't fit the whole gen 5 sprite so he's just really crunched
Here's why it's justifiable to clause a disadvantageous bug, while not clausing an advantageous bug:
A single disadvantageous bug can cause you to wipe.
A single advantageous bug cannot cause you to win the entire run.
What Jan mentioned in the video is "would I clause an advantageous bug that SAVES the run", so imagine he's in the middle of wiping and hits a bug that saves it. Different situation. I agree with clausing here, but your logic doesn't solve it.
Even so, it's still asymmetrical. A run can be saved many times, but a run can only be lost once.
Alternatively it'd be pretty funny if this was the 1/256
1/512 he used shackle 9 times in the end. But yeah 100% 😂 although he would probably have to reset if it was proven not to be a bug
1/512*
@@dylanfletcher9451 A few people in chat wanted to confirm whether it was a bug or not. We'll probably know more next stream.
@Fabiocean2000 yeah I noticed ppl mentioning making a save state, etc. Hopefully he streams tonight, got a little worried when he wasn't online last night
@@Fabiocean2000even if it's proved not to be a bug its prolly easy enough to play it back to that state and continue the fight, given how early it was.
Interesting thing- the source code that was the basis for Run and Bun (DizzyEgg's pokeemerald-expansion) didn't actually have any code at all for Spirit Shackle beyond it's damage.
This presumably means that whatever coding was done to implement Spirit Shackle's trapping effect was done by Dekzeh himself.
Don't want to sound like I'm blaming Dekzeh for this bug, rather that there's a greater margin for error when you're one person coding than a whole conglomerate checking on eachother's code.
I read the title in jimothy cool’s voice
im dying 🤣
Folks, this was no doubt the fault of Iron mugulis
This is insane folks
50/50 each turn means that this is full within the odds that Staraptor never switches out. The only way to determine if it is a bug is to set a save state, and run through it several more times.
I think it has been confirmed as a bug, but not 100% sure
@@bassdasdwadsasdasw Yeah, it happened to a couple of persons prior. This was known. Not faulting pchal here, but forcing switch out in Run & Bun through AI manipulation really should make you question what you end up provoking as a decision. He willingly uses Spirit Lock, he just doesn't know how to properly steer it here.
@@Goldeneye3336 Spirit shackle is a ghost move, it shouldn't affect normal types, if it is affecting them like how brick break still breaks screens on a ghost it is totally reasonable to expect an animation to play like it does with brick break. This wasn't him unable to steer, it is undocumented behavior that you couldn't be expected to know before hand given the official documentation. If the bug was included in the official documentation bug listings, or the AI documentation it would be a different matter. Knowledge of every person's run who has ever run the game is not a reasonable expectation to have on what is documented behavior or not
If you are against clausing all bugs in every scenario that's a different matter, but its not due to a miss-play or lack of reasonably attainable knowledge
10:38 Hey IUndercoverTroll. I did my laundry on tuesday. Not only that, but I folded it and put it away. Normally I fold it and it sits on the floor until I wear it. Not this week.
Lmao
Good job! I've been trying to do better at actually getting my laundry actually folded as well. And I think I'm doing better at it. Hopefully this stays, and hopefully you'll keep doing it as well!
What makes me watch your content more than it being pokemon and awesome in itself is how you hold yourself as a person. It might just be some silly computer game but you make sure you are conducting yourself correctly within your morales and ethics and that is highly commendable.
While it would have been beyond awesome to see you steer this fight and while it's fully acceptable for you to clause this fight you dont need any justification other than what you always tell us: "your run, your rules" stay GOATED.
„My run my rules“ is the best decision here. If people don’t respect you/your run because of not knowing some niche interaction barely anyone knows about, their respect is worthless. Messing up during a fight is different but not KNOWING such a niche interaction says nothing about someones battle strategy, it just means noone can know everything about a game with so many factors.
It being literally the same as someone pointing it out during the cook means this is fine
Clause it. I'm here for the big brain well executed strategies. The hype pop off moments when things go bad is entertaining but like you said if you later run into an unrecoverable interaction bug on the E4 you want to be able to clause it.
I think it would be fairly easy to test if this actually is a bug. Emulators have save states and speed up, so just restart the fight several times and spam spirit shackle until either the AI does switch (in which case it's not a bug and Jan just got extremely unlucky), or you've done enough trials to convince yourself that it is a bug. Doing the fight just 3 times and not seeing a single switch after 30 spirit shackles would be 1 in a billion - pretty convincing IMO
He'd probably be pretty happy to truck to a 1/512 chance of getting fucked. Sounds like he probably wiped if it didn't work, So if not a bug and he legit got that unlucky he'd probably be okay with it. But it seems 100% a bug
I feel him, sure clause it. You've been working your ass off with a bad box to get here. But, it would have been funny to see you struggle and restart as well. But like you said at the end, your run, your rules.
I really appreciate the commitment to consistency. The real question is not "what do I do in this situation?", it's "what do I do the next time this happens?" and Jan knows that
Oh my goodness! An 8:01 post?! I almost had a heart attack!
Love you, Jan
aw the human centipede ms paint piece didn’t make it in
Shouldve committed to the clause, and then put on the sunglasses and went for it, win or lose you clause it and go back then just act like it never happened.
He doesn't win with that lineup. He fall to 2nd entry.
I mean, he could run it back to the fight, and test to see if the bug persists. The chances of two separate encounters producing the same no-switch result just purely on the math is like 1/1048576
Pre decision, I love the integrity that Jan approaches these runs with. Internally consistent ruleset, keeping results from documented bugs but considering allowing for clause aince rhis was undocumented. The logic is sound; if you'd clause the same at E4, clause here too.
What a tease for chat he probably cooked that fight for like 3 hours. Respect though!
The feeling, when you could not watch the pchal video yesterday, so you get to watch 2 back to back. Man this shit gets me excited. Love you good sir, please keep doing things you enjoy, they come out as such good videos. ❤
An ally has been slain.
We lost him to the rift, boys.
This episode was riveting in its subversive nature. Instead of focusing on cooking and battling, it focuses on Jan's moral dilemma regarding what it means to clause, and the temptation of clausing in how it can be a slippery slope for him.
The way I'm thinking is, what if an enemy used sprit shackle on you, you swapped in a normal type to pivot and wanted to switch again but couldn't due to it locking you in despite the attack not going through? Id say absolutely clause that.
Okay, but what if this isn't because of Spirit Shackle working on normal types, but instead the AI Thinking it is trapped and therefore not switching.
If someone wants to prove/disprove this as a bug, just get to winona with a basculegion, then do these same turns like 10, 20, 50, 100 times.
If she switches in any of these after spirit shackle, that would prove it was horrendous luck on Jan's part
@JustSomeoneRandom1324 i mean, if AI thinks it is locked despite not actually being locked it is effectively the same as being locked. It is not a human player that would have maybe tried to switch anyway because a human would think "i am going to struggle if i dont switch, im therefore going to switch". The algorithm would just never let it even attempt the switch.
I don't know if that made sense to read through i just woke up and maybe my thoughts are a little incoherent :/
Clause for sure. Undocumented, you didn't steer, honest clause in my onion. Yes i meant to put onion
it would've been pretty simple to prove as a bug to be fair by just burning all your shadow sneaks on it. it was still plausible likelihood to not be where he left it(shiny probability basically), but after all sneaks it'd be genuinely practically impossible.
He's choiced
@@DXRKMDE01 the staraptor? yes i know. the basculegion isn't, he could switch moves to sneak to try it out,.
@@MegamanStarforce2010 the ai thinks its locked in because of spirit shackle regardless of whether it hit or not. and its been confirmed it was an undocumented bug
I will say, I kinda wanted to see the steer even after the clause decision, and simply steer and then reset to last save no matter what
Honestly that would have been good patreon content to keep that save state/file and then cook that fight from that exact point later on
I'd have been conflicted too, but I'm pretty sure you made the right decision. This is not expected behaviour, and it isn't well enough documented for you to know about it, unless you had randomly stumbled upon it. Looking forward to seeing what you'll cook
He’s 100% entitled to make his rules and they make sense. Despite that I would love for him to go for it. It’s a hard and exhausting game but he’s only on attempt 5 after all
Clashing for unknown bugs is totally fair. You should be able to know that things will work properly
Bug is known. There has been multiple reports on prior versions of the game.
@@Goldeneye3336 It wasn't in the known bug documentation, you can fault the dev team for that but not the runner
@@Goldeneye3336 the entirety of dekzehs discord is not a valid body of knowledge to expect someone to have consumed when official documents have been created to record keep the games behavior
Ai: i am so predictable
Also ai : why does jan want me to switch staraptor goo brrrr
I'm sitting here like, so you clause right? After saying this fight outcome doesn't matter, then you steer it just because.
You know what it doesn't matter, it's fine, replay it, we all die
10/10 times I'd do the same. I might mess with myself later by calcing off-stream to see if I could have managed, but otherwise, once youve already reset, it doesnt matter anymore.
Clause is fine with me. I loved the fact you didn't calc it out. For me the only thing important is the display of an ethical attitude, and I bleiev this was it. Can't wait to see the real Winona
I almost ran into this problem with poltergeist
There is no problem with poltergeist. So you ran into skill issues.
So we clause the fight but he should have played it out anyway just to see
The fight had no other factors of being beneficial or detrimental like bad crits or smth to avoid, so I think there's no johns to be called here. Looking forward to the new cook
Unplanned stupid bird hitting air
I agree that it was the right decision but it still would’ve been interesting if he decided to clause it and then played it out just for fun
“Undocumented bug”. Sounds very demographic of you helldiver
I wish he wouldve claused it, but steered for the content just to see if he could, but with the understanding that he still has to go back/gets to go back regardless of outcome
Right decision based on Your Run Your Rules clause
Man, that sucks he has to get all the way back post clause.
I bet he trucks. He very frequently goes with the "don't want my clear to be doubted."
Homie, you gotta do what’s right for you. I think the clause was the right choice.
Only thing you could have done is start sneaking to definitively prove the bug (or learn if that would un-bug it). You've said for years nuzlockes are your own set of rules. Do your thing
The fight has to be recooked and he needs to find another line either way. I think once the first Spirit Shackle has been clicked, the locked-in effect has already been applied, so it wouldn’t switch no matter what.
Honestly I'm still deciding whether or not I clause right now. It's whether or not you can still do a run while being honest to yourself
pretty much the only time I’d consider a wipe to not be a reset is if I got fucked over by a bug, like what happened here. No shame in saying “fuck you” back to the game when it pulls it. Anyone who disagrees with clausing a wipe that you had no control over can kick rocks.
Actually really torn here too Chef. Dupe the save file, play it out for “alternate reality” content in a standalone vid later. “Can I Cook Myself Out of This Bugged Battle?”
I say play it out for content. Maybe make a savestate and clause it but play out the scenario in a risk free what if, then fight Winona legit.
one must imagine Sisyphus clausing
Anyone know why he had been off since then? =/ we lost him to the save reset
Rip wish we got to see that fight through but still smart
I’m glad you claused. Would have been tough to gather myself for another run if that caused you to wipe
Came back to watch this vid because no new vid today 😔
ladies and gentleman probably the best nuzlocker in the world ......
Definitely fine to Clause but I feel like he should’ve also played it out for content. He could’ve said I’m causing it and resetting even if I win and just tried to see if he could save it
100% understandable
Where's the content? thinking emoji.
Now we wait to see what happens....
this seems reasonable, if there is an AI doc and an AI bug list and something happens that should never happen you run it back, i see no counter argument to this.
I think it would've been fair to say 'okay no matter what happens we are causing this' and then play it out for the.content anyway and reset after whatever happens
But then if he loses, some people will claim that he wouldn't have claused if he won. Not worth the controversy.
All time pchal moment
I was nearly screaming clause
Day 2 of waiting for the next video. The Winona Debacle must be avenged.
I don’t think clausing a fight on a first turn bug is bad, especially since he didn’t even calc to see if he could still win despite it
I'd clause it as well, and was thinking of the beneficial ones while it was stated being part of the clause. If it's not intended, then it's not honest either way.
Never take career advice from Winona.
Nuzlocke Virtue Council will hear about this.
And promptly go TOS themselves, Jan is OK with it, so I'm OK with him playing his run as he sees fit.
After he plays it his way, I hope he goes back and plays it out from that position just to see if he could steer it.
10:39 fuck undercovertroll got me good
Glad the bit I randomly decided to do got noticed by a couple of people lol.
One piece theme nickname should have every title named ace dies
No
Damn i would have loved to see him run it out and win
ok im sorry this isnt what i meant when i said i I wanted more steering
I've only seen people saying it was the right move to clause it, so I'm not sure who he's telling to fuck off lol. Respectable play anyway, even if a steer on that fight would've been hype
I disagree with the decision, but 1000% agree with his run, his rules. Do what makes you happy and enjoy the game
9000% justified
No upload still is crazy tho
I think I am just going to choose to be angry and upset no matter what you decide, thanks a lot Jan!
the nuzlocke validation council be eating with this one
Great call Pchal!
where is the human/bird centipede highlight
Hell yeah do it for MIENSHAO