Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Discovery 3.5 - Die Trying
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Seán Ferrick with all the ups and downs from week's episode of Star Trek: Discovery, 'Die Trying'.
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"... detached nacelles. Best of luck Eaglemoss."
That's the best line in the video.
It's really fairly trivial. Transparent plastic pieces or separate stand components.
it's the best line about Discovery over all
Since all of Starfleet has become separated because no warp driveI'm wondering if there could be multiple factions calling themselves Starfleet
The uss nog and the voyager J.... Thats more than we ever hoped for!
Would u bulieve me if I tell you that I few days before the episode I got the feeling I would see something about voyager? It was amazing
But what about the USS Enterpise?
@@patrickmurray3846 they mention something about a new djnstitution class, it should be a USS NCC 17O1 N or something like that as the enterprise J is on th 26th century
i think id rather have more dot connecting with other series and less subtle references. lower decks is master of this.
Also, the video doesn't mention it, but the show writers made in an Eisenberg class ship. Very very classy.
Also about Voyager: that also does not mean that there's ALWAYS been a Voyager around, all the time. It could have been some years or decades between some of those letters. For example: it took around some 20 years between the destruction of the Enterprise C and the comissioning of the Enterprise D
I would love to see the various iterations of Voyager. and ya know i kinda wanted to see a Robert Picardo return as a EMH . ok Lets be real here . His version of teh EMH would have figured all this crap out with all he has gone thru yea . lets be real
Fair enough Mate, but how could the crew of the Disco knew about the Voyager at all? The Disco started 2256 whereas the Voyager was built around 2370
@@elnolde754 they couldn't 🤷🏽♂️
@@elnolde754 oh i am sure that the ships historian on disco would be pouring over all of starfleets records and that the updated database would have been uploaded to disco
Im a just being real here . there should be more connections to tos to voyager and teh movies now able to be made unless they wanna be losers and sort of retcon history .
Picardo's EMH has been exposed to more stuff than a normal EMH would have . So Picardos even if he has terrible bedside manners could put spock thru his paces with his logic
@@elnolde754 That was for us the audience. Not the crew. They wouldn't recognize an Intrepid class if it bit 'em. But they definitely recognized the new Constitution class.
The idea of a Seed Vault is not new, we have our own right here on Earth: the Svalbard Global Seed Vault
The movie "Silent Running" (1972) explores these themes as well.
I kinda wondered why Star Fleet didnt just say bring the Vault back . It would be a great way to be on top yes? All the data teh vault has coudl go a long way to helping the federation right ?
@@yukinagato6761 No dilithium, no warp, no ship travel.......
@@mrbear1302 so ya telling me taht Discovery could not bring the seed vault into a hanger bay ( do we have any size comparison of teh seed vault and teh discovery on hand ? ) tractor it in and then spore drive discovery with teh seed vault seems pretty simple to me . Oh but they needed to bring the one seed back . uh ok hey guys we are gonna do ya a solid here is teh one plant we need to cure the aliens . now excuse us. The seed vault is a Valuable Federation resource . we are gonna head back bring a team with us that can hook that seed vault on to discovery (assuming us bigger than the shuttle bay ) and we gonna bring that sucker here . hey Stamitz ya need to see if spore drive tech can power these ships to go places . Ya got it Saru . Tilly all excited as now she gets to play with REAL TECH whoooo hooo
@@yukinagato6761 The idea of such a fault is to be isolated. Therefore this one has a route And for Discovery's reason... Being far away from Dilithium. You never know if a Burn can happen again.
I used to give these writers shit last year but I admit seeing the USS Nog in commemoration to Aron Eisenberg's Nog and USS Voyager made me feel that they really are trying to do good and I appreciate it.
I think overall the writers did a good job of digging out of the hole of Season 1, which put them in a very limited creative box. Putting them in the far future was a brilliant creative decision to softly reboot the show and now they can have all the creative fun they want with the series.
@@johnchedsey1306 I believe this is a response to many of the fans who were tired of owls and wanted to see the future of the Federation.
@@johnchedsey1306
It's the Star Trek curse, man. Every first couple seasons of every Star Trek show is god awful. Voyager when the Borg finally showed up, DS9 when it was more focused on Cardassians than anything, and then the Dominion, and Enterprise when Riker grows his heard.
You mean they are "doing good" by throwing us a nerd bone to distract us from what hacks the writers all too often are at plotting and character development... I appreciate the nods too, but still too much is forced and manipulated with emphasis on the bang and flash of impressive visuals. This episode was an improvement, however.
Fans need more scenes like the one with Cronenberg and Yeoh. Riveting stuff. Kudos to whoever wrote that. Admittedly, much of this episode was better written, so there's hope it may get better.
I still have doubts the decision makers and writers have the skills it takes to deliver the rest of the show worthy of the Star Trek name. Did they just swap out Commander Nhan, a solid and relatable character, for Adira?
@@michaelmoraga2926
Star Trek does that often, you know. Replacing an old character with someone new. TNG did it with Tasha Yar and replaced her with everyone.
In Voyager, it was Seven of Nine replacing Kes, and to be honest, I relate to Adira more than Nhan. I never really liked her but its a shame shes leaving.
On Culber: comparing him with an 11th century doctor is not really fair because it's not like 23rd century medicine was a poorly understood science, like medieval medicine that talks about the "balance of the humors" and stuff like that - Culber knows about spieces anatomy, about chemistry and how the immune system works etc. His info is just not updated. The tech has changed, not the understanding of medicine - at least, not as wildly as the understanding between dark age doctors and modern doctors. Culber could understand how 32nd century screens and holograms work - a dark age doctor has not only not scene computers and modern medical equipment but also lacks an understanding of the immune sytem, what bacteria and viruses are! The dark age doctor would think of magic and believe that the modern doctors are wizards. Culber wouldn't even if the tech were so advanced that it would look like magic.
Also, 32nd tech does not look all that groundbraking and mind-bending - it just looks like standard sci-fi tech that we only didn't have in previous centuries because of visual continuity. You could find 32nd tech in many other sci-fi stories. It's not as mind-bending as a cell phone or "skyping"/viewscreen was in the 60s.
Yeah, you totatlly right. Medicine would be growin by then as a plateau, because it was already HUGELY advanced by the 23rd century. Yes, by then they would already have discovered cures for uncurable illness at 23rd/24th century, but not that much appart with knowledge of the inner workings of organics
It's fair to say that the future doctors just have more tools and procedures developed. There's also the possibility that Dr. Culver will know some effective procedures that had been forgotten. The thing is, very few of our civilisations can be said to have lasted 950 years, indeed 300 years is more the norm.
I agree, plus becuase he's a 23rd century docter, that should give him praise becuase he has access and knowledge to a wide array of medical topics that this new future doesn't, mabie these new future doctors have better medicine, but they dont have 23rd century discipline that accounts for most of the federation, remember that all doctors in the federation had to be trained in not just human medicine, but all species medical practices and that goes for delobian, vulcan, everyone.
I think that these 29th century doctors are out of touch with all medical practices and i would trust a 23rd century doctor over an 29th in this instance.
I was gonna say the same thing
Well, it is obvious with this episode that the writers have absolutely no knowledge about History. Saru's speech about Giotto would deserve a F- in History of art.
Replicated flowers may not necessarily have the same genetic make-up as the actual flower. Just like replicated beef, does not have genetic material in it, it is just simulated beef.
yep. I absolutely thought that too.
Correct. And that also means you can do research uppon replicated seeds. They may RESSEMBLE then, but the molecular structure most likely will be simplified or broken down. Not enought to harm whoever eats it, if edible, but not available as material for research. That said, that does not mean the remedies can't be synthetized, but you have to know their structure, their formula, first
You could see the makeup of the dna and use gene editing to make the same proteins without using replicated stuff.. I mean it's being done now, although on a very small scale but by 3189 it must be pretty easy... I don't know a lot about it and it might not work cause I don't work in the medical industry
And Star Trek has always been inconsistent with the replicators. For example why couldn’t you replicate gold pressed latinum or dilithium crystals? But voyager can replicate just about everything they need to build the delta flyer.
@@calimann83 it was stated that gold could be replicated, but not latinum
I love Discovery herself, but if they don't get retrofitted with new tech, it'll be the dumbest plot hole yet. I was mildly offended that they were using their own Tricorders on the away mission when they have access to scanners that are 1000 years more advanced. I want to see the ship updated, and it'll be fun to see the crew trying to comprehend technology that they're completely unfamiliar with, kinda like how Starfleet struggled to understand Cardassian tech at the beginning of DS9.
And the Defiant crew when on board the first enterprise.
At this point. Star Fleet is still suspicious of Discovery and crew. Proving themselves with a assignment gives trust. Trust that gives them opportunity to get the Federation to work with them
@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent Yes and no. Even if 32nd century Starfleet is suspicious of Discovery's crew, they shouldn't have a problem giving them certain technology that isn't classified. For example, why should they have a problem outfitting the Discovery crew with 3140s-era tricorders? (40-50 years old by the time of this episode) Once the Discovery crew have truly earned their trust, Starfleet could give them state-of-the-art 3189 tricorders.
Why would they give them new tech? In starfleets eyes they are considered time jumping criminals.
@@bazzokzwattom2655 The main reason. The Discovery crew are time Jumpers. Which is a big red flag to the Federation in this point in time as to them time jumping is illegal unless authorized be temporal agents. They had recently also been engaged in a temporal cold war and lets be honest its likely the same damn one that happened in Enterprise. So seeing a ancient federation ship with crew thought lost suddenly back and wanting to join the federation with perhaps one of the most advanced forms of FTL avaliable capable for the federation to begin expanding outward and reclaiming its lost territory is basically screaming don't touch them. If the ship was able to go forward in time, it can go back in time. It could go back in time with advanced future tech and thus change the timeline perhaps into one worse than the one they are going through at the moment. Yeah the Federation will want to make damn sure they time jumpers are legit and not there to raid future tech.
The Burn being a mystery from now until the end of the season may be generous. It may be Discovery's Dominion war. It could be now until the end of the series until we resolve The Burn.
I think the burn and that "lullaby" are connected. I think that tune was essentially a harmonic pulse that swept through the galaxy and destabilized the crystals.
🤔 like the finally in "Star Trek: Beyond"?
@@fmvm Similar principle. That was not what I was thinking about, but it is a good example. I know in real life certain frequencies are able to shatter/crack crystals.
@@0PhillMC0 Only 1 problem with your theory: why aren't all the crystals destroyed?
@@fmvm maybe the ones that were being used by star fleet were recrystalized.
This “out of time” point of view keeps cropping up. But I think we need to start thinking more 4th dimensionally about it. They even used the dark ages analogy in this episode. During earths dark ages our concept of hygiene dropped significantly. At the height of the Roman republic the upper class nobility were very clean and had a great understanding of hygiene. What’s to say medical knowledge didn’t hit a plateau in the convening centuries and then took a huge hit after the burn? Just because our human existence hints at progress through time doesn’t mean that’s inherently how the universe works. If the world ended tomorrow all our knowledge would be gone.
The fact that discovery has the most advanced form of propulsion is an indication the writers are leaning heavily into this concept.
Future doesn’t and shouldn’t always mean more advanced.
I'd love to see all future federation ships with spore drives although not being driven by a living being like stamets
@@Mercilessonion Yeah the requiring a living being part raised ethical red flags back in their time, and they only got away with it because of an evil imposter captain to start, then switching to plugging a human into the thing (rather than some alien life form in a retread of the Equinox story from Voyager). The big questions by Starfleet will be "can it be done without plugging a human or anything else into it" (probably not), and "are we willing to plug a human into it in order to gain the edge it would provide" which is a possible yes given how on the ropes they are the spore drive would be a literal game-changer.
Also adding to this, I would assume the basics of medicine in a developed society like The Federation will remain fairly similar a thousand years into the future unless some paradigm shift occurs which seems unlikely. 11th century becomes a false analogy as they have no germ theory etc.
I don't think the spore drive is actually the most advanced propulsion, it is rather a technology that was discontinued due to the problems it had and due to warp drive being a better - meaning saver and more conveniant - alternative. The only reason why the sporedrive is superior in 31st century is the burn. Also in the other episodes we clearly saw much more advanced technology then what the discovery had available like the personal transporters or like that instand repair tool in the 2nd episode. Even the different ships we saw in this episodes used technology that made the entire crew stare at those ships in awe as those ships were much more advanced than the discovery. So rather than the future not being advanced it is rather something like the future being advanced, but they are having detailed historical information and a different point of view coming from a different time where starfleet wasn't reduced to being an invisible donut somewhere in space.
@@achimsinn7782 I’m saying social and technological advancement isn’t linear. Take Mad Max(the first one)as an extreme example, it’s in the future and things like cars, guns and other resources still exist but there have been relatively few advancements and many regressions. In 32nd century Star Trek the evolution of tech and civilization as a whole took 10 steps forward and then 3 steps back.
The hologram calling out Burnham and her exaggerated emotions should have gotten an up. 😄
Does it show that some of the writers are at least addressing the very valid criticism? Or are they trolling us?
I loathed that teen-drama, dysfunctional dinner table scene a few episodes ago. Dear lord!
@@michaelmoraga2926 I liked that they showed (once again) that starfleet officers have emotions too, but yeah...that was way too teen drama.
The lullaby means that there's a final 5 Cylon models, but they don't know they're Cylons.
*Battlestar Gallectica*
The David Cronenberg and Michelle Yeoh scene was one of the best in Discovery so far...
Finally, highly capable characters acting like adults with depth. Consummate writing (There's hope!) and acting! Well done, Disco! 👏🏼
One of the most amazing episodes of Star Trek discovery ever this guy is out of his mind and off his rocker that there was any DOWNS at all in this episode
Regarding Nahn's leaving for the seed ship: I think she felt it was something like destiny that she was the one person on DISCO that could take the place of the current seed ship steward. It was a "Ariam would want me to do this" kind of moment.
And I'm sure just like Book, she's going to come back into play later in this season. At least I hope so!
You use the word "fauna" to describe the seeds and plant-life on board the USS Tikhov. The word you should have used was "flora", not fauna. Flora represents plant life in a particular area. Fauna is the animal life. I'm going to give your review a down there on the grounds of critical research error.
But you should give them a upvote for trying, these two words are not commonly used, and i think mixing these two words can be a common mistake indeed.
So you're going to downvote, because a guy used Fauna instead of Flora 🤔
What has to happen to make a guy like you the way you are? - you're very sad my friend. Very sad!
@@Morgue12free didn't you for one second think, that this... might be a joke?
how is this anything but a down... it is not that easy a mistake, especially for a scripted, edited show...that prides itself on easter eggs and details, defining things..... and especially because like 60 seconds later he openly says he is nitpicking.....
@@BulletHole One thing to remember is that its easy to expect others to be on top of things like ourselves, we think others are alike when everyone operates differantly.
I really liked this episode. The part with the seed ship was a bit weird... but ok. This whole season so far gave some nice vibes. Hope, they continue that way!
Yesss. I don't really care that much for Michael's mother. Any number of irrelevant things could happened after she was suck into the wormhole. Heck, Michael hit a starship and barely made it, her mother could easily have a similar incident and not survive.
Putting this on the internet so I can look back as to how early I called this...but that music lullaby is KEY to solving a certain something within the show *hint: it's a message through time*
A man makes a solid prediction.
Justin Ebanks errrr bro....not cool. I didn’t post the full thing, only a hint, as I didn’t want to ruin it for anyone watching this video after it had been revealed.
A man has a good point.
In Enterprise when they first encountered Replicator technology it was made a point Replicators can't replicate living organics. So yeah they can't just replicate seeds and plants. It would be useless for a cure.
But they can buffer transporter patterns, right? They did it numerous times from TNG to VOY. Remember Scotty onboard the Jenolen?
It's debatable. In theory, if they can have transporters that reliably transport living organisms, they should be able to have replicator technology that can create living organisms. The two technologies are really the same technology. It's just used to different ends in either case. The reason why the replicators can't make living organisms has more to do with story concerns. If it's too easy for your characters to do stuff, it's not very interesting. In-universe, I think the excuse is about computer storage space. The transporters are supposed to do a lot of it on the fly, so they don't need as much storage space.
Also 500 years of technological evolution might make it possible.. what people think is impossible now maybe a norm in the future.. 100 years ago the thought of wireless communication over 20,000kms would be treated as a joke
Uh, the ship carries the "flora" not the "fauna" - flora is flowers/plants - fauna are animals...
How could you leave out the best phrase! "Disfunction IS the team"!
Another fantastic episode my only issue is the detail in the FX shots of the federation ships all throughout Discovery that's been my big problem is it's hard to define the ship details even though it's supposed to be HD or 4K old track it was easier to discern the ships I suppose because I was only one model or two I think there's just too much light that is distorting the image of the ships for me anyway
Interesting you should bring up replicators for creating a seed to create an antidote - but remember the 32nd century wasn’t even aware that the planet that had been scavenged was originally an industrial seat. As such, they most likely wouldn’t have had the information needed to have the ability to replicate a seed from before all of the mutations on that planet had occurred. Also - the burn... I have a guess as to the reason for the burn. Remember warp-core guy said in a previous episode that nothing could cause all dilithium in the universe to go inert all at the same time, and that triggered my thought. I say only “the verdict is in!”. Remember the “Q” from TNG? If I recall correctly, the court case of humanity was only suspended, with no verdict. I have to wonder if their case was finally completed 720 years after Discovery jumped into the future, and they found humanity guilty - the sentence being to curtail their ability to propagate through the universe any further. The best way to do that was to eliminate dilithium crystals.
Why couldn't 32nd Century transporter's biofilters isolate the prions and remove them directly?
Prions are kind of a special case. They're used in sci-fi because they could be really hard to detect. They are very simple -- even simpler than a virus, which is one of the simplest structures that can actually kill you. If you knew what you were looking for, you can identify a prion, but there is no guarantee that you could remove it without killing the host (it might perform some basic, vital function). Also, you might not know what it did, even if you found it: the real challenge is knowing what to look for before it does it kills you. A prion could just look like a common strand of protein until it starts doing its dirty work in a new host. That's my understanding of them, anyway. Mad Cow disease is actually caused by a prion.
A lot of people have said this had a more classic Trek vibe and I agree. But that also means some of the plot points aren't going to hold up to scrutiny as much. This was definitely an episode that really digs into character, has a story that is mostly self contained in the episode and still serves the season long arc. The "downs" are pretty much just like ones I might have pointed out in any of my well liked Voyager or TNG episodes. Ultimately, this show is really delivering on what matters the most: a enjoyable, entertaining hour of television.
Im so bad, look at me go, give me a scone 😂😂😂😂😂love it
I'm kind of surprised that no channel has identified the song yet. It's the whale probe broadcast turned into music. The originators of the probe tried to communicate with the galaxy at large not realizing the effect it would have, as they did not know their probe would reek havoc on it's journey.
The "Burn" would be like if during the Crimean War all gasoline exploded. The "Burn" seam to be far more then just a war.
It would be like all the oil in the world going away.
actually i thought the blinking was kinda funny, like its a major known glitch about holograms and AI , it didn't really bother me, its akin to futurama's santa episode where they use a paradox to blow the head up.
Honestly TNG did a much better job with showing how out of place Scotty was in the 24th century and that was only a 70 something year gap.
To play devils advocate, Scotty had already served an entire career in Starfleet and had retired (and was in at least his late 70s) by the time he was trapped on the Janolan. Sure, the 24th century tech was way more advanced than anything he worked on, but, he **knew** what everything was in engineering. He knew the warp core, he knew where the dilithium matrix was located. The only thing we actually see, tech wise, that threw Scotty off was the fact that by the 24th century it was possible to "recystalize dilithium within the chamber".
Really, I think Scotty's issue wasn't so much the technological change, but the emotional effects of being separated from everyone he knew by almost a century... which is still a theme of Discovery this season too.
@@ObsidianBlk there were somethings that he didn't rec, the new isolinar crystal chips that had replaced the deutronic enhancers for instance, still we're talking nearly 1.000 years the idea that the technological advancement had been so slow is hard to buy.
@@douglastarbox7640 honestly, I get where you're coming from. The problem is... imagine what the future will look like 1000 years from now, technologically and societally... It's damn near impossible to guess what'll look like 50 years from now (remember what communication was like 50 years ago). If the writers tried really really hard, they could definitely come up with technology that feels more like 1000 years more advanced... But then we, the audience, would be complaining about how different the show is from "true trek", or how nonsensical people were acting (think of how different social norms are today vs 1000 years ago). The show needs to keep familiarity so as to not alienate viewers too much.
@@ObsidianBlk Good points my issue is that I really don't get a real sense of fish out of water, if anything it's more like no one in the future is competent and it's all up to MB to fix everything.
@@douglastarbox7640 that I cannot play devil's advocate to, lol. Everyone is different. Personally, I've been enjoying Discovery from season 1, warts and all. There still might be a "MB is the hero" issue, but, to me, it feels like they're trying to subdue that this season, and, I don't know why, but it doesn't as overly bother me as it does other people, so, take that for what it's worth 😁 ... Live long and prosper, friend 🖖
Hey Guys, how could the crew of the Disco knew about the Voyager? The Disco started 2256 whereas the Voyager was built around 2370
Very good point.
I agree on the down for Nahn, especially as we don't see her again till s4
I grew up with tos and I confess, Captain Kirk is my first love. Having said that I enjoy what each canon show offers in it's own way. Now, I just found this channel and I absolutely adore how much everyone talks with each other. Everyone seems to be respectful and quite knowledgeable about all things Star Trek. For that, I thank you!
I know what you mean. Seán's videos and commentary attracts like-minded people. We all have conflicting opinions about Discovery but we're respectful here.
Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I don't yet I respect his opinion and enjoy his videos every week. 🖖🏾
Imagine what it will be like when Discovery meets the Borg ... or Q (or Q Jr), or when they find out Romulus is gone
I didn't like this show at the start. But now I just love it. Real Star Trek is back. Thanks to everyone who is working on it.
I think the Terran Empire, or its progeny was or were responsible for The Burn.
I don't believe that to be likely based upon Cronenberg's statement about the last appearance of Terrans being 500 years prior to the episode. The burn took place in the late 31st Century, c. 3070, meaning the last appearance of Terrans was in the late 27th Century. I think it more likely that the time crystal in Mama Burnham's Red Angel suit was the cause of The Burn. When Mama Burnham was sucked back to the 32nd Century our crew believed the suit to have burned out. Unknown to our crew and to Mama Burnham, the last jump went awry. Mama Burnham did get sucked back to Terralysium, but 120 years earlier than expected, as the time crystal malfunctioned. In a exceedingly short period of time the time crystal didn't simply malfunction but became unstable and then exploded, releasing a wave of chroniton energy that, for a period of time, changed the structure of dilithium, rendering it incapable of regulating the matter/antimatter flow and thus causing The Burn. A side effect of the malfunction is that no one on Terralysium now knows about Mama Burnham.
@@Traveller1701 last know appearance.
@@alexdavis-mann8513 Cronenberg's character was quite specific on that point. But I can't discount the possibility either. That said, if they went the mirror universe route it would make for a very flat resolution to The Burn. Having Mama Burnham be the cause is much more dramatic.
@@Traveller1701 Cronenberg also handled a Terran fairly well for someone that has never met one. I think there's a strong possibility he was lying to see how Georgiou react. I think Burnham's mom is a strong possibility as well, although and maybe I'm the only one that just doesn't care what happened to her, the whole red angel storyline didn't feel very "Star Trek." I would like to see the Terrans or the Romulans behind it.
I believe a connection to Picard may be a reason.
I believe that also a possibility of teh overuse of warp drive may have something to do with it . this was commented on in Voyager if i recall
I also believe that instead of over obsess with teh burn that with Discovery could be explored and that starfleet with its technology now could in fact replicate spore drive with Stamiz being the teacher of "new warp cores how to use spore drive and star fleet is back baby.
Mikey in charge of the mission, I seem to recall the Doctor accusing her of being a responsibility hoarder, then tell her then and this episode only she can do this.
Who is David Cronenbergs character in Star Trek Discovery? What an excellent character. Could he be Section 31?
That's the implication, yes.
Imo, The Burn is the most interesting and compelling mystery.
Unless it doesn't pay off logically. Fingers crossed.
I don’t understand your down for the burn and your interest in the lullaby. They are clearly connected.
I cried when I saw Starfleet, It was amazing, now I'm ready for them to do that whole 'rebuild the federation' thing.
At least they gave us a huge hint of what the burn was thanks to this lullaby.
That is the one thing that I absolutely love and totally get the dynamic between Saru and Burnham is the fact it is a reverse Of Spock and Kirk with Saru in the role of Kirk as the Captain but thinking like Spock and Burnham in the role of Spock but thinking like Kirk. She responds as and like that of a human where she has her heart on her sleeve and Bull charges right in every since the very beginning with the Battle of the Binery Stars and all the way to the present and Saru has to constantly put her in check and I love it.
I totally agree with the ups and downs this week. Slowly but surely getting to the fork in the road. This season could go very left or just right.
I am sure the Doctor had some other people helping him. Maybe a current Starfleet Doctor went with them. Also maybe Starfleet data was damaged including data on that plant.
I had a theory that The Burn will be something that happens in Picard actually so I don't know if it'll even be answered in this season. I have no idea if the timeline works out or if it will be the unintended consequences of their actions in that. Additionally there was that bit about the universes moving apart so It could be unintended consequences of that too? Maybe the solution will be to merge the universes (which would be insane and I'd love it) or at least bring them back into alignment in some way?
I'm so ecstatically happy with this season of Discovery. I've never been a naysayer of the first two seasons, but I just didn't love them. They were just okay to me. THIS, however... THIS is some of the best Star Trek I've seen in a while. Some of the best sci-fi I've seen in a while (excluding Picard of course). The back and forth between Geurgiou and David Cronenbergs character was sublime, and mysterious. The subtle mysteries behind the apprehensiveness of this Federation, along with "The Burn" are actually making me think and hypothesize, drawing me INTO THE STORY. Causing me to care about where we go next, and what happens to the characters. It's extremely easy for writers to push too hard to make the viewer care about characters, while making the story interesting and mysterious enough to allow us to want to care is much more difficult. They are succeeding here.
Starfleet: We don't trust you! You're not home yet!
Discovery: Well let us perform a relatively minor task for you.
Starfleet: We trust you now! Welcome home!
all i will say is compared to the first two seasons this one is my far better (i now the bar was not that far)but it is an improvement and i am finding it watchable so far from the start compared to the first two it tuck me half a season for me to start to feel this is the star trek i want to see
Fans: we want 1 episode stories
Discovery: wraps up a mission in a story
Fans: its unrealistic, they did a small mission and got their trust
@@arranjames781 And this is why paying too much attention to fan feedback is just as bad as not paying enough.
For 50 whatever years, Trek wrapped up major problems in 45 minutes. I know now we are all about story arcs, but why has this become a foible
@@TTony-tu6dm It's not about a short arc. It's about motivations. The sudden about-face doesn't make sense. Wouldn't it make as much sense for temporal agents to help out in order to ingratiate themselves to Starfleet?
The thing I don't like about the burn being the destruction of 95% of all dilithium that blowup all ships with a active warpcore, is why were they even still using dilithium in the 29-30th century in the first place when back in the late 24 to early 25th centuries there was better space drive systems coming out that did not require dil. Then for the song that is starting to pop up, there is a simple explanation for that. That is before the burn that song was spread out among many worlds/races throughout the Federation.
Completely agree with all of this. The medical thing got me going too, couldn't believe it.
I enjoyed this episode the most out of the current season (Nog and Voyager J were the bits that hit home), I'm surprised they didn't get upgraded sheilds since they are basically using a paper bag now or a new database so they could go "Oh this happened" etc.
Also can we please just have Tig Notaro in every second scene please? She's utterly fantastic in every single scene.
And if you watch Phillippa’s reactions when he said that her universe got better the moment that she left, watch how her reaction again in a rewatch, she clinched her jaw and that was a perfect beautiful reaction on the part of Michelle Yeoh that had my jaw on the floor whenever o saw it. So subtle and yet told us soooooooo much of Phillippa.
The Georgio interview was brilliant. yeah the start was a bit contrived just not enough for a down. Same goes with Naan. it was suprizing to have her stay on the seed ship but when you think of how Commander Vance reacted to her staying. It helped convince him that Discovery was there to help. That should have been an up
I'm totally interested on this "Refit" for the Discovery which was mentioned by the Admiral.
About the Seed Ship: Didn't understand why they don't put this little Seed Ship in the Shuttle Hangar and take it with them back to Starfleet HQ. Book's ship looked much bigger as this Seed ship and it does fit in the Shuttle Hangar.
About this Medical AI which is checking on Burnham... How crazy is this AI?
What about the transwarp (subspacewarp) technology of dino-specie that cross path with Voyager?
You need a Pattern to Replicate From, and do you think this triage mode Starfleet/Federation would keep a database full of the patterns for random plants when the Tikov is presumably safe and little known enough to not be a target?
BTW: what about the Kazons and Talax? When the Discovery crew step into the HQ in a display you can see the two words (bottom left corner of the screen).
I am not convinced that the holograms that Georgiou dealt with were state-of-the-art Federation tech. I think "Cronenberg" having studied the mirror universe, was presenting her with tech that would be appropriate to her time. He then had a chance to observe a Terran being clever. Defeating them would give Georgiou a false sense of security. It was the kind of manipulation he was demonstrating throughout the interview. Just a theory, of course.
So here is the thing I couldn’t figure out. If all the dilithium blew up during The Burn, what is powering all the 32nd century star ships? Do they or do they not have warp drive? If they do, what is the new power source? I would like to see that explored a bit.
Very good analysis and I absolutely agree with assessments. You got my sub sir....
I KNEW I recognised the admiral! Imhotep!
@@glaframb oh my god you're right! I need to rewatch that film after 20 years!
Agree with you on Culber, he shouldn't be allowed to practice medicine but I think you missed the point of the seed/flower. It was picked with the disease in it which made it the cure, you cannot replicate that if you don't have the original flower as not only did Starfleet not know the cure, a replicator wouldn't know it either unless you have the original sample
My theory is that the song (the lullaby played by Adira Tal, that many people somehow know) is related to The Burn. I don't know how, but I suspect there is a connection.
If the seed ship was hit by a Coronal Mass Ejection, how did the seeds survive if the family didn't, after 930 years they don't have shields? They had the technology in TNG to enter the photosphere of a star.
You are forgetting that Nahn was the one who ejected Airiam into space. You don’t think that would haunt her a bit?
My reply to some of your downs. I think its important to remember that Starfleet most likely have lost a lot of information. We already know that losing warp has made travel harder and as Vance mentions, they are on triage. Plants are also different depending on were they are created, to understand the toxic variant they needed a pre ruin version of the same plant. Replicating it might not give the same origin etc and removw the property needed for the antidote. Similarily I would assume the seed vault (meant to be untouched unless catastrophe of enviromental origin) just wasn't on their plans until that disease broke out. I just feel like there are good in universe explanations for this.
Also to Nhan honoring Airam was going into the future and doing her duty as a federation member. Chosing to remain was a mix of honoring her people that she missed and committing to her promise to Airam. I don't think she abandoned that ideal.
And I also noticed at the end just a couple of bars of original trek music. But like you I didn’t like the I’m staying behind thing. Especially as it seems the girl doesn’t even need a clean pair of knickers or any personal belongings!!
Love Discovery and loving this season. But I do have questions on this episode. From the tractor beam part of it... the seed ship looked small enough to fit into the Disco shuttle bay.... remember, same shuttle bay they jammed a tremendous asteroid into?
Not to mention...the guy on the ship...he just needed medical attention. Fine. So she could stay, they spore their butts back to Starfleet to save the day, they heal him, bring him back... and she agrees to take his family to return to their planet in some later episode. But he would be healed and would remain the keeper on the ship... regardless if they leave the ship where it was...or tossed it into the shuttle bay and poofed it back to Starfleet protection, etc
Apart from the impact of faster than light travel, we don't understand enough about The Burn at this point in the story's development to know if or how much Federation records / data were lost as a result. So the need to retrieve a pre-mutation physical specimen is valid if a record no longer exists. On the flip side of this argument is what is the point of having all this sphere data abroad Discovery if it's not going to be useful for anything?
I got the impression that the area where Starfleet HQ was isn't cloaked as such, it's more of an energy distortion bubble generated by several of the ships within. Also, at least one other reviewer has noted how the inside looks similar to the Spacedock stations we've seen since ST3 (you've got the same overall central column and dome shape sprouting out from it, as well as obviously the many ships gathered around it). Good pick-up on how the Nog looks like the Axiom from Wall-E. I actually thought it looked more like the Klingon Cleave Ship from seasons 1 & 2. I also thought Voyager-J looked slightly like the Dauntless from the Voyager episode "Hope & Fear", which also had a very alien, curved and arrow-head-shaped forward section.
The problem with Nham’s dedication to Airiam’s memory is the same problem with Airiam’s death in season 2, we really only had one episode to get to know Airiam(because season 1 was trash) so we the audience don’t have all the history/backstory to add weight to the sacrifice. Now is Nham we’re sacrificing her career for Detmer it would make more sense cause we are invested in Detmer’s story/character because we’ve had a season and some change to get to know her. This is why I too feel robbed that Nham is being sidelined, we were just getting to know her (and the rest of the crew, I’m still waiting for Rhys and Bryce centered episodes the same way Owosekun got a spotlight). I do believe Nham will be back, and possibly with some key knowledge about The Burn or Michael’s mom.
My fan theory is that the lullaby is a message from Michael’s mom, to help them reunite, it feels very breadcrumb trail the same way the red lights/stars worked last season.
The Georgio blink scene was awesome, man. Come on.
Wow another Irish ST fan! Accent makes me feel like home! Thanks Sean!
I just assumed Georgiou was in shock about the fate of the Terran Empire?
What about Burnam in command of the Discovery? I really enjoyed seeing her doing captain's stuff on the bridge.
It did strike me as weird that he was the one to do the injection, and that Discovery isn't being given some sort of updates to weapons, shields, tactical expertise, offering some members of Discovery to stay and learn, or giving Discovery access to their experts to go with them. As far as we know, there is one human from the current time period on Discovery going forward which is just a massive... huh?!
I do think they should make a point of showing the characters working hard to get themselves up-to-date with the advancements of the last 900 years. Even a small time-skip of a few months, mentioning how much and how quickly they've all learned and how well they've been able to integrate new tech into the Discovery.
what does the lullaby mean? were terrans behind the burn? is emperor of the terrans behind the burn?
She opened the door and "killed" Airiam, that is the connection
I have a feeling that they will try to recreate the Spore drive in another ship.
The comment about Hugh Culber and being fine with immediately practising medicine. Reminded me of how The Doctor was unsure of the new medical equipment, after being in the Delta Quadrant for 4 years
When Scotty got beamed into the future they wouldn’t let him near the Warp Core, and that was only 80years.
And the EMH mk II berated mk I after just a couple of years saying, "We don't use scalpels or leeches anymore." So yeah, a doctor 900+ years out of date would certainly not be considered qualified to practice.
theory - the lullaby has something to do with the BORG
I have a feeling probably something related to the burn
I have a feeling probably something related to the burn
The programable mater is involved too. Like control survived a little via that stuff
@@jimmyryan5880 Hmmmm....
I was waiting to see the Borg as well
But lets assuem taht eventually they all go home one day they could never talk of teh borg in teh future could they
Georgio has just found out her entire people has been destroyed. I'd be out of it as well.
Also I love love LOVE this season of Discovery so far (I'm a bit critical of the first two, but I'm blown away by this one) but I've gotta give a big personal down for this episode for this lullaby song being built up like it's some sort of big nefarious mystery. The burn only happened 120 years ago. Popular folk tunes and melodies are often many hundreds of years old. People all over our planet would recognize Beethoven, who died significantly longer ago than 120 years. I bet it wouldn't be unusual for someone in Japan or whatever to whistle Ode to Joy while doing the dishes or what have you. Why didn't Michael just ask Adira??????? Why ask that Starfleet HQ person first???? Very weird writing choice.
Yes, I agree. In the episode, they say "how is that possible?" But if you've got over 200 good years of interstellar cultures mixing even before TNG and a few more hundred after that, it's very possible!
I'm somewhat surprised The Federation is still using Warp Drives in the 31st century, Federation scientists never figured out transwarp, or quantum slip stream, or hell no one ever re-discovered the mycelial network?
Tilly's relationship with Paul Stamets is not a Star Trek Chief Engineer Commander to Ensign relationship.
Tilly is not an Ensign to Paul who I am actually surprised she does not call him "Paul".
They have more of a Doctorate Professor and Doctoral Student.
Tilly is the only person on the ship who understands Paul's ship design and Spore Drive,
The15 -20 year age difference is there too.
She will like any good student one day be better at the skill she is learning from this Master engineer
Because you are not a fan of the mirror universe episodes related to Discovery I think you lost some of the plot ques that could explain about the `the Burn.`
Several things were revealed in this episode that could, conceivably, have a common thread: the `lullaby` recurrence in disparate Federation cultures; the `Burn` being seemingly undefinable; the need for `glasses` in the 32nd century; the stated fact that there has been no `cross-over` between the Terran and Earth alternates for five hundred years; the labouring of the point of cryogenic technology in relation to the seed repository subplot.
This and the obvious effect upon Empress Georgiou following her `debriefing` is telling: if there were refugees from the Terran Empire following the Kirk inspired Spock reforms that resulted in the Alliance of Klingons and Cadassians taking over the Empire and subjugating humanity, where would they go and how would they survive with their beliefs intact in a Federation Universe?
The Federation and it`s allies would be a threat as well as antithetical to their belief system of unassailable superiority - so you find a means to defeat that threat and then you somehow find a means to prevent the diverse cultural intelligence (the Federations core-strength is it`s diversity of perspective and understanding) of the Federation from coming up with a solution to your cour de gras; the `lullaby` I suspect is some sort of telepathic finger-print of the active suppression of dealing intellectually with the `Burn` otherwise why is everyone seeming to display a cognitive dissonance in relation to it?
I suppose we will only find out more if and when we see more of the Orion/Andorian Alliance and who really runs/instituted that organisation? The Andorians may be the means by which the telepathic finger-print is being broadcast to befuddle the Federation by way of the Aenar as their telepathic abilities certainly rival if not exceed the Vulcan abilities as demonstrated by the telepresence technology used by the Romulans in the 22nd century? While the Orions are culturally more suited to Terran beliefs and economic structure and would be a better fit politically with Andorians alongside.
This is only a theory and only time will tell but why lay these plot points unless you were going to use them later on?
Yeah, the fourth “down” kinda makes sense. So many sci-fi shows seem to require live samples to clone despite the presence of replicators or their equivalents. Like the Asgard of Stargate, who keep cloning from the previous body rather than storing samples or DNA from thousands of years in the past, so they could avoid the whole “replicant fading” issue. We’ve already managed to sequence the human genome. While we don’t know what it all means and have no way to replicate living matter, if you can rearrange molecules to make food, you can probably create organic molecules too. And Star Trek has transporters, which recreate living matter based on a stored quantum pattern
Wish they would of showed the future ships more... Us ship junkies got robbed!
Ohh come on, The Burn is NOT like the Crimean war for the 20th Century. The world was not put upside down by the Crimean war, but The Burn WAS an event that threw the galaxy back to a Dark Ages equivalent.
hi Sean/Shaun, i thought it was pretty good. great Easter Egg there. i missed the USS Nog.... man. your right, the burn needs to be left for a while, pick it up later. they still do need to do more character building, especially with Detmar.
This makes no sense since because the era that Georgiou comes from they don't have holo technology like this so how would she know how to disable them?
probably to make it sound more "sophisticated" than simply "Computer....end program". (even though she probably had no voice control over it anyway).
Frankly, this might be my favorite episode of any Trek ever. It uses Discovery to frame the type of story Star Trek was built on and this one has it all: new stuff in general (tech, ships, species, etc), Star Fleet seeking your help other races, an away mission, connections to continuity, and payoffs! But I do agree about the Burn. I’m fine that it’s part of this but hearing that they’re not going to discuss it and then to learn there are all these theories that also aren’t addressed is frustrating. Like, Admiral Vance, dude. Seriously. You can be skeptical at first and that’s understandable. I mean, imagine if on TNG, the Enterprise runs up on this same sitch: there would be some care taken to ascertain the truth and likely a mission or away team that proves they are who they say they are and save Picard’s butt. The Disco’s crew did that here. Not only that, but they’re primitive compared to the rest of the Fleet and the problem is solved damn fast. So just tell them what you know, dude.
... unless Vance and the rest of Star Fleet have no idea, but don’t want to seem incompetent. It’s understandable. And all those ships goin all berslodey? What are they going to investigate? A bunch of wrecks of ships in the middle of open space? There’s barely enough Dilithium to get any place decent! I think continuing on their mission when they can is the most they can do. Even if they solve it can they fix it? Obviously we’ll learn it eventually, but I agree: let it simmer on the stove; a watched pot never boils.
I really like this episode! It seems weird they've taken a half season to really get the premise moving, but there isn't much they could've cut to arrive here sooner. I agree the writing has been a little uneven both in regards to how the crew is coping with being in the 32nd century and how the 32nd century is coping with them, but it's overall strong and I like how they're taking time to focus on characters and the consequences of their actions up to this point. It's like the writers realized just how utterly insane the plots of the previous 2 seasons were and are trying to make amends for it.
The Burn gonna be the mistery of the season. It was caused by the Federation, section 31 covered up, and nothing gonna have sense.
There you go, I saved you time in your life......
For the medical technology and all tech really, would it be safe to think that while there is a hugh time gap, maybe there was a technology plateau? Maybe a difference between high speed 80's versus medicine of today?
Ha. Sean I was not expecting to see you on this. You were also a fellow trekie :)
Hello!!
The seed vault could have been "lost" to the Federation, now that they don't have warp drive. Even if they knew of its existence, they couldn't reach it, aside from it being a generational mission. Plus, data of the seeds within could have also been lost (perhaps left on Earth at the old Starfleet headquarters?)
Additionally, Discovery's doctor could have been used as a triage nurse...just as Chekov turned press staff into nurses (Generations). And, it's possible that he has knowledge of the planet from 1k years ago that Federation doctors don't have, essentially speeding up vaccine production.
The seed vault may not have even been lost. It could have been too far away for Star Fleek HQ to consider it a viable option. If it takes me two weeks to get there and two weeks back and I only have 5 days before bad stuff happens why consider it further?
Are you giving 3.5 score for getting how many new star ships . Yet awesome story