NASCAR'S CONFUSING FORMAT! The Story/Opinions on the NASCAR Playoff System
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- As a young(ish) English lad, playoffs are what Walsall keep failing to make every season. But in NASCAR, they determine who wins the series.
There is a regular season winner, but nobody cares about that. It's winning the playoffs- That's what gets you on the same stats sheet as Dale, Petty and Gordon.
I guess it's just the way the Americans do things. The NHL, MLB, NBA and NFL do it but there you have sub-divisions. In NASCAR it's the same guys every race so what's the point?
And more importantly, how the eff does it work?!
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This is one of those things that you get mad about because you don't understand it, and then when you finally understand it, you get even more mad.
NASCAR has become infuriating.
For real, i watched the vid *twice* and still don't understand it... only bit i did understand is that the top 4 get equal on score & then who finishes the highest, gets the title
The biggest problems with the NASCAR Playoff are that they are willing to abandon their die hards in pursuit of casual stick and ball sports fans, and that if you try creating "game 7" moments in each race, eventually it dilutes the excitement.
I’ve been saying it’s like FIFA making the goals a foot or two wider and taller to make it easier to score from 30yds.
Yay! Worldies top bins every match. But then they become less special.
Their casual fans are all over 50. You have to replace a dying fan base
@@codyjarvis Hardcore here, I'm 63 (Which is our average age). The first Cup race I went to as a kid was at Wilkesboro, with my Grandfather. Now I'm a Grandfather. That's where a lot of us came from & We ARE dwindling. I don't think they will replace us by racing EVs either - But by then - it will no longer be NASCAR.
Exactly. As S1apSh0es put it in one of his videos about the Playoffs, Game 7 moments are only memorable because they don’t happen very often. When you have them all the time, they just sort of bleed together and now, none of them are special.
@@AidanMillward Australian Rules, innit? There is no top on the goal and sometimes people can score from 55m/60yds. Though scoring goals with no goalkeeper and no top on the goal is still sometimes surprisingly hard... Re: winning the regular season and not the championship, isn't that the same as the AFL Grand Final system (where the finals and eventually Grand Final match to determine the "champion" are a separate tournament to the Premiership season) or FIFA World Cup or anything that has a "playoff" format?
I would agree with S1apshoes NASCAR has been chasing what the ‘92 season finale at Atlanta shaped up to be. They had 5 mathematically viable, and 3 realistic drivers in contention for the title. To boot the end of Richard Petty’s, and the start of Jeff Gordon’s ‘Cup careers took place there also.
If they went to that points system with tweaks to the winners tally, ditching stage cautions, and letting the races play themselves out naturally, I might watch a few Cup races. Now? It’s a comparative shitshow.
The biggest thing I hate about the NASCAR playoffs is one driver can win the first 35 races (of a 36 race season) and finish 2nd in the 36th race, and not win the championship.
Great channel Aidan!
Or someone can win NOTHING and still win it. Crafton in the Trucks and almost Newman in cup in year one!
Winless championships are a farce in my opinion, no other form of motorsport could that even happen!
@@PaperBanjo64 Almost happened in F1 when Hakinnen won just once in the season but placed well in all the other races so won on 'aggregate'!
@@mikehipperson 1999?
@@PaperBanjo64it’s happened in even “normal” points formats. If you finish second in every single race you’re probably going to win the championship. Unless one person wins every single race
Hello. American childhood oval racer here and lifetime fan of all circuit racing.
We hate this set up too.
What he said!
I’ve come around to realizing that I’m gonna have to accept the playoffs. But what I can’t accept is a one race championship. It needs to be three. Auto racing just doesn’t work like that. Some random things can just happen and ruin your race.
The Alan Kulwicki story of his championship year was a great story. Maybe worthy of a storytime episode?
I think he may have done Underbird, but my memory isn't what it once was😊
The entire 1992 NASCAR season deserves a Rush style movie
@GregBrownsWorldORacing I can remember some NASCAR from the deleted early Storytimes, but not Alan. As said by another respondent, the whole 92 season was amazing.
@@charlespruitt360 i almost agree, but that story is so bonkers that i don't think the screenwriters could capture it's story like it actually happened
Kenseth's 2003 season is SO underrated. The tallies don't tell the whole story. He DNF'ed late in the season at Talladega and Kansas, then blew an experimental motor at Homestead in the finale. He absolutely smoked them the entire season.
He took the points leed on 2nd race for entire season
@@davej9228 It was actually the 4th race, I believe Kurt Busch led the points after Rockingham
To add to this, NASCAR uses this same system in the 2 tiers just below the Cup Series, Xfinity and Trucks.
NASCAR had said that with this system, you can’t win a championship without winning at least 1 race.
Well, that all went out the window in 2019 when Mat Crafton won the Truck Championship without winning a single race that year.
And under the old system Austin Dillon won the 2013 Xfinity championship without winning a race...winless championships are a farce in my opinion! I'd rather have Denny Hamlin's stats than a winless hollow championship.
@@PaperBanjo64 I forgot about Austin Dillon’s championship.
To add insult to injury, this nearly happened with Ryan Newman going winless and finishing 2nd in the finale in 2014, the first year of the newer playoff format. NASCAR dodged a bullet, to everyone's chagrin by Kevin Harvick winning.
@@ChrisBl33p and Jeff Gordon should have won it, but Brad Keselowski cut his tire at Texas and eliminated him from the playoffs
@@PaperBanjo64Winless championships are fine (just tell the winners to either stop DNFing (looking at you 2003 Ryan Newman), or to be eligible for championship points.
That last part was kinda important, because there weren't many competitive cars that season that didn't have primarily Cup drivers or part time points-eligible drivers in 2013.
I want them to get rid of the playoffs, but If I had to choose between getting rid of the playoffs and stage races, I would axe the stages. The stages prevent the race from getting in a rhythm. It’s like resetting the field so Verstappen doesn’t get too far ahead.
Don't axe the stages. Axe the stage cautious. Keeps the strategy and flow of a normal race but also encourages people to not just sit back and wait.
@@neblolthecarnerd I can agree with this.
@@drvkc Agreed - NASCAR used to be a phenomenal test of endurance, you did have to be consistent and the short vs long-run pace comparison made many races unpredictable for a long time.
Now, each race is a series of 125 mile or 100 mile or 100 lap sprints. They are not 400/500/600 mile / lap races anymore.
Imagine stopping and re-setting the Le Mans or Daytona 24 hours every 6 hours (though with Daytona, that's pretty much sadly what happens...) - makes the whole ethos of the race pointless.
To paraphrase the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Nascar playoff system is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
NASCAR fan here. Pretty good job, Aidan. Just a few notes here.
Every race has 3 stages, except for the Coca-Cola 600, which has 4 because of how long it is. Every stage before the final one gives out stage points, and the final stage gives out regular race points. Winning a stage grants you one playoff point, and a race win is worth playoff points. Playoff points aren't added to your regular season point total, but they get added to whatever the reset value is for any round of the playoffs, aside from the final race.
Also, we routinely get at least 10 different race winners a season, so very few playoff spots are available. 2022 had just one spot open for points, and only because one of the race winners from earlier in the year got injured and removed himself from playoff eligibility. Last year, 3 spots went to points, but only the last spot was undecided before the end of the regular season.
Personally, I don't feel strongly either way playoffs, I'm just acutely aware that NASCAR won't get rid of them any time soon. I do hate the cautions they throw at the end of stages, and I wish they'd axe them, but that's the only thing about the modern format that annoys me.
All in all, pretty good video from you, as I've come to expect
Totally agree about the stage breaks. There is nothing wrong with the awarding of points, but keep it green and make crew chiefs earn their wages by not having the tower dictate the strategy calls.
The cynic in me believes this is how NASCAR increased its revenue by having more time for commercials during the race.
@@JamesAnderson-fv3yo That's exactly why they have the cautions. Guaranteed commercial breaks twice a race where no action is missed
Yeah the grandstand full of people screaming that the election was rigged definitely understand all that crap. Lol.
@@KevinJDildonik The people at Talladega are there to party while a race is going on, not pretend to care about NASCAR
TL;DR...
Its car racing...it SHOULDNT be so complicated.
NASCAR’s final race in 2003 had 7.3 million viewers on NBC… NASCAR final race in 2023 had 2.9 million viewers on NBC
Ouch...and the most viewers NASCAR ever had was the 2006 Daytona 500 also on NBC
The drops in viewership don’t correlate with the points system though, the main drops happened after the recession and then when household name drivers like Gordon & Dale Jr. retired from competition.
@@MLGProSwag69 Okay, but the change in championship format was specifically designed to bring in "more viewers" and that totally failed…
@@kben24yeah we here at nascar like to chase our own tail but the racing is super good right now
@@MLGProSwag69 people say NASCAR died with Dale Earnhardt, but the sport’s popularity peaked in the years following his death, so your argument that household-names retiring caused viewership drops doesn’t add up either... How did it go up after the biggest driver died??
You absolutely need to do a video on the 1992 season and Kulwicki’s championship win. It was incredible
He did but he probably deleted it
I still dont understand why NASCAR insists on keeping this weird format to create "excitement" when IMSA (a series owned by NASCAR) uses a conventional points format but still manages to create some epic and dramatic championship deciders year after year.
Let's be fair though, NASCAR runs over 3 times as many events in a season as IMSA, and only the GT cars are present for every race of the IMSA season (which last year iirc Vasser Sullivan locked that up just by starting the final race).
Things are more competitive with fewer chances to gain points.
@@PanderingSlatsgood point, but my next question is, should NASCAR really be that concerned about one guy running away with the championship under a full season format when the gen 7 regs are basically designed to equalize the grid by making things cheaper and more "semi-spec" like Indycar and V8 Supercars?
@@sdx3918 I mean the past handful of years we've seen one person get further and further away in the regular season, but I see no problem with that personally-
I'm in a minority that I think NASCAR having a postseason is novel and worth keeping, but it 100% should not have eliminations, and the tracks should change up every couple years to avoid select teams setting up specifically for the postseason schedule.
@@PanderingSlats Huh, interesting to see you here hahaha!
Postseasons don’t belong in any form of auto racing, period.
They work in the other American sports because they’re purely human endeavours.
The best team doesn’t win the Super Bowl? Tell them to play better in the playoff games.
Motorsports can have results outside of driver ability though. Someone can wreck you through no fault of your own, or a component can just fail.
The aggregate can control for this.
Drag racing is the only one it makes sense in
@@RD-wg9emIt makes no sense in Auto racing as you can race the same people for 36 races. There is no need for it. Football is completely different, and if they did American football any different, there would be no players left. They are kinda forced to have this because of how little games they have compared to other sports.
@@PaperBanjo64 honestly, I mainly find it pointless because it’s just 1 reset after 17 races. It’s less crappy, but just mainly pointless.
@@tamezzodiac2862 there’s that aspect too. Even if the roster of drivers changed. The playoffs are too punitive for singular failure, especially when you consider you can lose a race for factors completely outside the drivers ability
Thank you, Aiden! As a NASCAR fan of 21 years, I really needed this video to explain the Playoffs to me, because... phew boy...It ain't easy...
You've not done to bad on explaining but a few things to clarify. The playoff points are added to the points when you start each playoff round as they carry forward, with the exception of the championship race. That is your advantage over the other drivers, so if you do well in the regular season in theory you have a better chance of advancing as you start each round with a points advantage. So say you won 5 races, 5 stages and won the regular season then you would have 45 playoff points and start the Round of 16 on 2,045, then the Round of 12 on 3,045, Round of 8 on 4,045, you also can get playoff points in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs as well that carry forward. They have also changed the playoff rules now so that outside of the championship 4 drivers the rest of the final standings for 5-16 is decided by who scored the most points across that last 10 races with bonus points earned are also added, while in the drivers championship this is pretty inconsequential as who remembers who finished 10th, in the owners championship (think constructors championship for F1 except every car number is a team) it can make a big difference as these are the standing that prize money is paid on.
You also didn't quite get the winners rule correct, the rule states the playoff is the Regular season champion + the 15 winners with the most points. In the event of there being less than 15 winners the remaining spots will be filled with the highest scoring drivers without a win. And there has almost been more than 16 winners in the last few seasons, the last 2 years had 15 winners going before the start of the playoffs.
The playoffs does its job of creating drama as during the playoffs every point matters and if all else fails your favourite driver could finish last in the 1st 2 races of a round and then have a walk off win in the final race to advance. However it usually means the best driver that season doesn't win and people who track the old Winston Cup standings from the start of the race will show you how pretty much every year the best driver hasn't won. Even people who are proponents of the playoff system think the current format is wrong and should be changed to slightly less cars racing over a longer span, whether that be the last 10 races or 2 rounds of 5 races which is similar to what the original playoff system which was called the Chase for the Championship and essentially made the playoffs a 10 race championship. This current format of multiple rounds has only been in effect since 2016 when it was introduced across all 3 National Series.
Generally the only people who like it are NASCAR as they think it generates TV ratings and avoids the boring F1 style where one driver can have the championship won by halfway. The win & you in system has been causing chaos though, especially in the lower series as people are doing dumb shit to win at all costs rather than just taking their 3rd or 4th place finish home with them and banking the points as a win means you advance and its worth the risk to junk your car and finish last.
Even as someone who actively follows NASCAR getting all the itty bitty parts of the rules sorted such as the aforementioned rules about place 5-16 of the standings is complicated and there's probably a few bits i'm still not quite correct on
My thoughts and additional notes:
- Martin Truex Jr. was unable to compete in the 2022 playoffs despite being third in points at the end of the regular season. This was because he had not scored a win, whereas 15 other drivers had. (Ryan Blaney, second in points despite being without a win, was the 16th driver.)
- Denny Hamlin was looking like 2023 championship material until he suffered a catastrophic tie rod failure at Homestead, resulting in him crashing out of the race. More than once a driver has been eliminated due to an accident they had no control over.
- Speaking of which, "Final Four" member Christopher Bell finished 37th in the final 2023 race because he had a brake rotor that decided to turn into metallic confetti.
- Kevin Harvick had won 10 races when he got knocked out in 2020.
- The defending champion is *not* guaranteed a spot in the playoffs.
- I've watched NASCAR since 2006. I still don't _completely_ understand exactly how the playoffs work when it comes to points.
- There's also the additional problem of the drivers potentially getting reckless to try and get the championship. The 2023 truck series finale (the third-from-the-top feeder series) turned into a complete demolition derby, and it basically boiled down to who could avoid the most damage.
- Despite NASCAR trying to make it impossible to win the championship without winning at least one race, the 2019 truck championship went to veteran Matt Crafton. He had not won a single race, and had led a grand total of 16 laps thoughout the entire season.
- The best part about all of this is that NASCAR has made a habit of fining drivers and teams who "bad mouth" the sport, which discourages them from speaking up. Commentators have to suck up to all the decisions made, whereas twenty years ago they were allowed to speak their minds and criticize NASCAR if they felt it was warranted. This is why drivers don't bad-mouth the format. (Funny enough, I haven't heard a single driver say they like it.)
- I think that the "Chase for the Cup" system used was the best of both worlds. 2011 used that system - top 12 drivers have their points reset for the last ten races, and it then turns into a "first to the post" championship. The 2011 edition was phenomenal - it ended in a tie!
I think you have to consider one thing about "stages"; they were designed to have an excuse to bunch the field back up and not let everyone get to far apart. They threw in the points part to make it seem like it wasn't being done in place of the old "phantom cautions" in the mid-2000s. It's arbitrary, and they have really hurt the product for new fans in the name of creating "game 7 moments". What they don't take into account is that game 7 moments are special because they don't happen all the time. Also, in theory, a driver could only win one race or no races in this format and win the championship anyways (see Daniel Hemric in the Xfinity Series in 2021).
NASCAR's obsession with manufacturing artificial excitement has been their doom.
You know that Friends episode where Joey becomes the host of "Bamboozled". It reminds me of that scene where the rules are explained.
What adds to the meme is
Matt Crafton won the Truck series under this format without winning a single race all year.
Love your content.
Love your presentation of such content.
Love from Johannesburg, South Africa.
When the ceo of nascar takes too many drugs
ironic since he has multiple DWI's on his record.
And eventually gets arrested for a DUI years later
Drunken Brian France in the house
He is also the Third Generation leader/owner nornally that when a lot family owned business decline
_Does he know?_
Just started to watch Full Speed. What’s the motivation for the non-eliminated drivers? Money? The simple competition of the race on the day?
I read the Playoffs were introduced to stop a driver winning the Championship without winning a race. But they don’t prevent that at all.
Matt Crafton who was winless all year won the 2019 Truck series championship by simply finishing ahead of other 3 eligible drivers.
Well done Aidan. 👏 you called it by it's correct name - hand egg 😅
Edit: ok. So, just as I was starting to understand it, there was more and then a little bit more to add to the confusion until I gave up trying to understand. I'd rather be dealing with Fahrenheit, and I feel the same way about that temperature scale as you do!
The average finish of the Cup champion has steadily decreased since the advent of the chase, yet the overall best average finish has remained relatively steady. The best drivers simply aren't being rewarded for their great seasons. Ryan Blaney - the 2023 Cup champion - set the record for the worst average finish by a champion in the modern era. The playoffs only serve to reward not the best drivers and delegitimize the sport. slApsh0es has done a great video on the playoffs that I highly recommend as well.
Yeah, but like in other Leagues, it matters during the Playoffs. The Kansas City Chiefs had a mediocre season, but got hot in the Playoffs and won the Superbowl.
In NCAA College Basketball, with a field of 52 teams - In 1983, The NC State Univ Wolfpack with a record of 25 wins - 10 Losses defeated the University of Houston Cougars with a record of 30 wins - 2 Losses. NC State won 5 consecutive games & The Trophy.
It's about who is the best 'presumably' under the most pressure. Game 7 comes from the World's Series when each team has won 3 games, there's one game / race to crown the Champion - As was said, that's what they are trying to synthesize with NASCAR's Chase for the Cup.
We know motorsports isn't like stick & ball sports, It doesn't really translate, but it kind of rhymes.
@GregBrownsWorldORacing game 7 moments are special because they're rare, because they don't happen often. When you try to make every single season a game 7 moment, it ceases to be special. It's contrived bullshit. As long as there exists a format in which you can win the first 35 races, finish 2nd in the 36th, and lose the title, it's a shit format.
Thank you for doing this segment. I've been a NASCAR fan since Richard Petty was a young man, and it seems like NASCAR has ALWAYS been its own worst enemy, going back to the Hemi ban in '65 right through to today. It's like they go to square wheels because they want a bigger contact patch, then take two tires off because it's too much.
I stopped watching nascar twenty some years ago when they stopped being a racing series and became a let’s toodle around under yellow for most of the “race”
I like it because it gives anybody a chance to win, you could win the daytona 500 (first points event of the year) and gather points throughout the year, without really /needing/ to win a race, and by the start of the round of 16 youve accumulated enough points to a least make your way to the last 3-5 races, which are all at tracks that were earlier in the schedule; you can use the first 20 or so races as testing for the playoffs. You still have to be consistent to make to the rounds of 12-8, and then you just need to beat the other 7-3 drivers in the round of 8 and the championship race.
As a NASCAR fan, I would say after they introduced the current playoff format it took a year to get used to it and understand it. I could completely see the format confusing a potential new fan, and preventing them from enjoying the sport and abandoning it due to not understanding how points work. It's unfortunate that many drivers who would have had historic seasons under a different format have been essentially cheated out of a title such as Kevin Harvick in 2020 when he had two bad races all year (only one was his fault), and missed the Championship 4 because of it. I hate stage racing as well, because it ruins the potential long term strategy of a race that has few cautions. You almost never see races come down to fuel mileage anymore as an example. This past Daytona 500 is a good example of that. There was one caution early, and no other cautions besides the stage breaks until late in the race. It would have been interesting to see if some cars would have been forced to change strategy if they got shuffled out of the main pack, or lost the draft without the assurance that they could get the "free pass" under caution. Also I just don't like the idea of giving out points on a random lap. Why is lap 65 more important than lap 66? It doesn't make sense.
Also thanks for explaining what happens to playoff drivers who were eliminated after a round. The broadcaster (NBC) has never taken the time to explain it. Basically once a driver is eliminated, the broadcast just doesn't cover them anymore, unless they win a race (which is rare). I miss the time when a driver who has no chance of winning a championship would win a race near the end of the season just for the sake of trying to win. I hate how drivers now win a race, and almost instantly start talking about the playoffs.
There is just so much wrong with modern NASCAR and its point system to determine a champion.
Yeah, some drivers (I seem to remember Kahne at Red Bull) had fantastic season-ends, but just no mention in coverage - even Kahne's win was glossed over; due to "The Chase".
It also drew race-by-race praise away from the drivers like Regan Smith, Dave Blaney, Martin Truex Jr doing great things with small teams, finishing top-10 here or there (or even winning occasionally) as all the talk was pushed to the multi-car teams and the chase cutoffs.
@@OsellaSquadraCorse As a Kasey Kahne fan, I actually remember he got quite a bit of praise during that run, and win at Phoenix. He probably got more credit for that run than any driver outside the chase ever got, but that just might be focusing on his performance and remembering when the media mentioned him more than someone who is not a fan making me a bit biased. But yes, everyone loves a good underdog story and when a small team has a good run it would be nice if the media mention when Matt Dibenedetto, David Gilliland, or Corey Lajoie had a good run with a smaller team during the playoffs. I do think it has gotten worse with the current format compared to the chase. At Phoenix, I don't think they gave Chastain more than 5 minutes of attention after winning the race for example, everything was about Blaney.
Next they are going to apply the American idol format. They race to the end but 2 judges and Jeff Gordon Ramsay will give points to the drivers in things such as, cool driving, bird flipping, fist raising, and of course fight starting… to eliminate one driver for next race. In the last commercial break the audience vote to choose the winner of the race and a ticket to the finals
I'm glad we both had an aneurysm over this. I'm from the states too. Sadly. ⚓
The format that gave birth to Mickey Mouse Champions before it was called Mickey Mouse Champions
This sounds like a more complicated version of the (until last year when it returned to the old typical F1-like scoring, but with less of a gap from first to second, etc) British Superbike Championship system that was introduced a year after Leon Camier won the championship really early (iirc he won every race bar one, and that was won by his team mate after the championship was over, but it was a long time ago so I might be misremembering!)
The rules - simply - were that every race throughout the season until the final three meetings were scored as normal. 25 points for #1, 18 for #2 (or 16. I think it's 18), and down to 1 for #15. But every podium position gained had 5-3-1 points for positions #1-2-3 "set aside". (The specifics of this did change a bit but the "pattern" remained).
Before the first race of the "showdown", the top 8 racers in the field had their points deleted, but were given 500 each (to make it obvious who it was fighting for the championship), and their collected podium points would be added - that made gaining podiums throughout the season really important rather than consistently coming in 4th and potentially winning the championship, as had been possible.
Generally this meant that whoever was leading before the changeover was going to still lead after it, so it wouldn't be unfair on them, but the points gaps between #1 through to #8 were usually tighter. With three races at three final meetings, that gave plenty of opportunities to move up - and down - the leaderboard.
Meanwhile, those not competing for the overall championship had a "rider's cup" to aim for, so giving the rest of the field a reason to fight, and to not find it necessary to get out of the way of the top 8 (though to be fair, they rarely, if ever _deliberately_ interfered).
When it was introduced, it was met with a crapton of scepticism, but it turned out some awesome races, and most, if not all championships were won in the last race of the season (if not that, then probably the next to last, on the same day). They decided to reset the system last year with the closer number of points on offer and that was also an awesome finale.
So, am I right in thinking this is similar to the NASCAR system? If not, apologies Aiden, I'll just have to rewatch it...
As a NASCAR fan, fuck playoffs and stage racing. They’re stupid gimmicks and make NASCAR look even more like a joke to outsiders than I’m sure it already does
I think that problem with this system is that there is no big story in season. Yeah there is little once like is driver x, y, z or some make it to playoffs, but fact is that 8-10 drivers are just gonna be fillers 95% of the time in playoffs. And fight at the front... There is just nothing. No fight for lead of championship, just race after race with really nothing on the line for front runners except single race win. Yeah there is regular season point and playoff points but it just don't build a story. Online some people count old "Winston Cup Series" points with old point system and last year William Byron would have won cup series championship in last race. And it would have been his first time leading standing after April, he was third in "alternative" championship coming to last race. Yeah if point format was like that races had played different but it really shows that there is potential for real genuine "game seven" moments if they got rid of playoffs. Now it feels like tv ad money first, racing product second. I don't think that is gonna play well in long run.
It is TV money first, racing product second - and this is the end of the 'long run', not the beginning. It's not gone well...
As a more recent Nascar fan, the playoffs system makes it more annonying when determining a champion and the legitimacy of the champion just being determined by ONE race.
There been many examples of drivers missing out of the championship due to falling short in one event or just winning the final event and probably would of won in the previous format or any format that isn't the playoffs.
Examples like:
2020 Kevin Harvick
2012 Clint Bowyer
2011 Carl Edwards
2018: The Big Three (Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Martin Truex Jr)
2015: Joey Logano/Matt Kenseth
Denny Hamlin's entire career
If you just like motorsport and don't follow any team or driver this is great, keeps the championship alive. F1 in Vegas hyped the race up like it meant something, but it didn't. Was a good race but what if all that late action was to progress to the next round.
As a nascar fan, I hate it. Plenty of better ways to do it. Like full season points format. All they needed to do was tweak the Winston point system they had. Could even keep races more exciting by having some races double points, like the crown Jewels, and the final race. It would be way less confusing, way more rewarding, and more entertaining over the full season. Eliminations don't belong in racing. The only way to make eliminations matter is if you make the possibilities of a good car all year being eliminated, which always just makes the full season kinda pointless. There is no way to have eliminations in a fair way, and fulfill the purpose of eliminations. I think a lot of fans would rather a full season format, especially people outside of nascar who try to get into it.
As someone who’s been a nascar fan from the mid-90’s all the way through to today, and seeing the changes to this format, there is some correction to your explanation. I will say, this is pretty accurate. I’m really not a fan of the playoff system, or even stage racing, but I see their emphasis to not let a driver run away with a championship. You mentioned Kenseth in 2003, but this happened with other drivers like Jeff Gordon, Terry Labonte in 1996 is another example of consistency, Dale Earnhardt ran away with a few. I get that it kind of ruins tuning in the next week knowing your guy isn’t going to win the championship, however I still tuned in because I wanted to see if Rusty Wallace could get a win, even if he was 8th in points. I think as race fans, we are going to tune in anyways. Does the playoffs offer a compelling storyline? Absolutely. Drivers doing anything to make the next round! *insert “Hail Melon 🍉 “ here* It does make every race more compelling and interesting as a viewer, however the drivers are not awarded for consistency. The only driver to use this system AND be consistent was Jimmie Johnson. He was good in the regular season, and kept being good in the playoffs. They changed rules to essentially stop the man from winning championships. He won 5 in a row with the playoff format!
The playoff points do get added to the point reset each round. The playoff points follow the driver through each round
Correct, they don't start each 'round' in a dead heat with everybody on 2,000 or 3,000. The Playoff points for stage wins & finishes are retained for each round.
The idea here is to stop someone who did not make the Chase from winning The Championship by 'accident'. Imagine Corie Lajoie winning 6 straight races after the Chase begins, The best he can do is 17th place, no matter what.
one day the playoffs will be history the championship will be decided by a hat draw at the start of the daytona 500
You have made it slightly more confusing than it needed to be, but got the basis of it right.
And stages would work if they didn't throw a stupid caution every time.
Long time NASCAR fan who still doesn't actually like the playoffs.
Love that you made this video been a NASCAR fan since 08’ i adore the sport as much as i do F1 i agree the playoff system seems strange and i am one of the lets go back to the old days system people. But they seem to be happy with what they have now and an its all an entire generation of fans know so I can’t see them going back to the good old winston cup days but a guy can dream i suppose, love the videos always entertaining and always insightful you do a great job.
I admit that I have the nostalgia glasses on here, as I haven't watched a NASCAR race since '04.
But that was the NASCAR that I loved watching. Bouncing off each other, pulling into the pits to literally duct tape the car back together, then go back out to trade paint again until the end of the race.
The championship was straightforward and made sense. Not that I cared about the championship, I just wanted to watch cars trade paint while being held together by duct tape.
hey mate. love your channel. been a long time follower. Just had a small suggestion, for explainer videos like these, some visuals/charts displaying your explanations would be helpful. Cheers! keep up the good work.
The first 3 minutes were the most confusing thing ive watched in a long time 😂
English NASCAR fan here, yeah you're pretty much spot-on here mate, well researched. Well, I say fan, I've stopped watching since this ridiculous multi-stage knockout Chase for the Cup (refuse to call it the other thing) and the stage racing. Killed interest for me
Honestly the best way to do the nascar playoffs is not worry about the points resetting to 2000 with the playoff points taked on think of it has just there playoff points which are given at the stages like u mentioned the more u read into it the harder it is the wrap your head arouns when u have watched a few seasons u get pretty familar with it
I understood how the playoffs worked but you clarified the finer details, thanks. Personally I believe that the championship should be run over the whole year and if a driver can win it without winning a stack of races good on him or her
If you want to talk about complicated points systems, have a look into the latter years of the TVR Tuscan Challenge sometime. Half the time, the drivers themselves couldn't tell you who was leading.
Thanks for explaining it. I still don't understand it, but from what I get it, that it hurts the sport more than it does good. I think they should just return to the pre playoff point system. The fans will come back and it's less confusing that it is now. Not everything has to be sacrificed for the sake of entertainment.
Nascar person here by Local Short Track just adopted this playoff format last year and all it did was cause wrecks and end peoples seasons and more. Its a sh@$show.
As someone who has watched NASCAR religiously from 2016 it wasn’t until 2019 I fully understood the playoffs and playoff points however I will say now I understand it it’s not massively complicated
This taught me why no one was ever able to explain this to me. Still makes no sense but i wont be watch nascar anyway. Solid attempt on your part, you have done the best job of anyone to date.
Honestly with the amount of races and the shear chaos nascar races present, it does make some sense to implement a playoff system. imo the system itself needs more refinement to not completely erase the progress drivers made in the regular season
I had an aneurysm trying to understand this. Thanks
Actually 14 different drivers won during the regular season
(Altho 1 of them was part time, who don't apply for the playoffs)
And NO, it does not work at all
Iirc, few years back in the craftsman truck series, one of the drivers won the championship via playoffs without winning a single race
I feel like the only reason i understand the playoffs is because i started really getting into nascar in 2015, when i was 10. So i just watched what was happening and just kinda went "yup yeah thats how it works i guess"
My two younger brothers haven't seen nascar without the knockout playoffs. They'll never understand how convoluted it is because for them it's always been that way
I have been a huge fan of NASCAR since I was 5 years old. Watching my first race on TV in 1997. I remember watching it through it's insane period from the early to mid 00's where viewership and attendance were through the room.
Seeing the original version of the "Chase for the Sprint Cup" in 2004, while I was not a huge fan of it, I kinda got it and NASCAR was still increasing in popularity. Hell, the season with the highest average TV viewership and attendance was in 2006, in its 3rd year of this new format. But then when they kept on mucking around with the format, plus the COT car which no one liked, being more corporate and so much more that I do not have time to get in to.... is why NASCAR is all in the state it's in now. Me and my dad still watch it religiously, even though we know whoever wins the championship, more often than not is not the deserved champion.
In his quest to win his fifth championship Jeff Gordon finished four points off Kurt Busch and finished second in the first year of the chase. I was gutted. Jimmie Johnson then went on to win five straight. One of the most impressive runs in any form of motorsports when you figure how even the playing field is. Only Leob and Ogier and Makinen made such dominant runs in another competitive discipline.
Enjoy your channel, great perspective on issue that needs to be addressed but won't. Some of the drivers are coming around to the idea that the one race is bad, I would do at least the last three races and points determine the champ. Regular season means nothing. Blaney had the worst stat wise of champion in the modern history, and on top of that William Byron won Monday and passed Ryan in all time wins. I believe the playoffs actually rewarded the best driver twice since its inception in 2014.
I wasn’t a fan at first however with the only good F1 championships between 2011 and 2025 being 2012 and 2021 (despite the ending). I could see chase style system working because the good teams have to develop towards the end and the bad teams can focus on the following season. At least the season would end in October rather than May
WTF ??? Love your videos and i have understood all of them thus far. This one does my head in .! Can i have my 13 minutes back 😂😂😂
The Chase for the Championship was the first iteration of the Playoffs, and initially, only the Cup Series had them. Under that first iteration, the Top 10 in points, plus any others within 400 points of the points leader, would be eligible for the championship. It worked as intended in the first year, but after or two it got exploited. Eventually, eligibility requirements were changed, with the Top 10 in points plus the highest two outside the Top 10 with at least one race win being eligible. Then, in 2013, Spingate happened, and the wheels fell completely off the wagon.
2014 was the first year of the current format, with the Playoffs. That year, Ryan Newman almost won the Cup Series championship without having previously won any races that season, and was one pass away on race leader and championship contender Kevin Harvick from winning the title. Five years later, Matt Crafton won the Truck Series championship without winning any races that season. Those outcomes should’ve been a hint that this system wasn’t going to work.
The stage cautions were in response to some mediocre races during the Gen6 era as well as the accusations of “phantom debris cautions” and are rather arbitrary for shorter races. Even worse, caution laps between the checkered flag for one stage and the green flag for the next one. That makes no sense.
Now, the stage cautions were dropped for road courses last season and it made those races better.
But the worst aspect of the Playoffs is that they intentionally foster mindless carnage. Even the most hardened Playoff loyalists admitted that last year’s Truck Series championship race was a shitshow, with Final 4 drivers hunting each other down and intentionally wrecking each other. It was awful. I could go on, but I’m already lost for words.
so for playoff points they are added to every round reset so lets say you have 23 playoff points you start every new round (besides the championship 4 round) with 23 extra points from the reset points tally
Also, could do with a chat about WRC points system as well
The NASCAR playoffs might make sense if 2 or more divisions were included. Having worked in USAR, the playoffs, with 2 different divisions were awesome for most of the people on the teams. It was about beating the other division, then fighting it out with the other drivers from your division. Bragging rights!
Playoff points do go through into the playoffs. That's the whole point about why they exist so the drivers who perform well in the regular season are still rewarded despite the points reset. It makes the gap from 1st-16th go from several hundred to around 50 usually, not 0
I just listened to every word you said, and I still have no clue. I am tired though but I doubt that's why it's confusing
It sounds like a similar system the British Superbikes use with the top 6 in the championship, going into "The Showdown" for the final few rounds
It's funny how in NASCAR it's considered boring to win a title through consistency whilst in F1 Keke Rosberg and Mike Hawthorn are remembered specifically for their amazingly consistent drives. Same goes for Di angelis winning fewer races but beating Mansell in 3 out of 4 seasons by scoring consistently and focusing on making fewer mistakes
It’s considered boring in f1
All right Aiden what would you rather have: the last few races of the season being irrelevant (like F1 last year starting at CotA) or the last race always being a 4-way shootout for the title?
I quite like it because it is different to other series. So it makes it interesting.
I would change a few things though.
Blue ribband events e.g the Daytona 500 and the Brickyard 400 should be straight races with no stage points, just a bucket load of points if you finish high up in those. I would also put the winners of those two races straight into the playoff final with the regular season winner and then have four other drivers qualify for the championship race through the playoffs so it's a magnificent 7 going for the title. Anyone who qualifies for the playoff final through those blue ribband event wins is then racing for points in the regular season which determine their starting row in the playoff final.
I would make the championship race be a straight race with no stages but I would give the magnificent 7 a one lap head start over the rest of the field before the race has even started and then I would also let them start their race half a lap before the rest of the field.
The rest of the field would still be in contention for the title if they could catch the magnificant 7, unlap themselves and then overtake them to be ahead on the track. The winner of the race would be the championship winner.
During safety car periods, there would be two safety cars on track, one for the lead driver from the magnificent 7 and one for the chasing pack. If there was a crash that resulted in the safety car being deployed then the gap between the two safety cars would be maintained at the distance between the magnificent 7 and the chasing pack. Wave arounds for drivers to get behind the correct safety car would not count as them unlapping themselves.
If the chasing pack catch a magnificent 7 driver and unlap themselves and then catch up with them again on track then that driver is part of the chasing pack safety car for the rest of the race. If all magnificent 7 drivers are caught by the chasing pack then we go back to one safety car being deployed if there is a crash.
You got a full Snort-Laugh from me with your Fahrenheit comment. I say this as an American: you are SO RIGHT.
I watch NASCAR every now and then. This playoff system is what keeps me from getting really into it.
Great video sir. If you really want to get your brain in a twist try understanding the NHRA drag racing points system; it's even more bonkers than NASCAR.
there is one UK based motorsport championship that does run a playoff system and that is the British Superbike Championship since 2010 and they run to the 2007 to 2010 Nascar playoff system until 2023 where they moved to a new play-off system they created themselfs but it seems that they have manged to get to work for them and in the 2023 season the rider how started in 8th place before the play-offs managed to get up to third place though getting better results and more points from the other riders how where above him before the playoffs started and the top 2 where covered by 0.5 points at the end of the season.
American here. We got used to it (mostly) but we do miss the pre-2004 system
It's a gimmick plain and simple, doesn't belong in motor racing.
The reason I stopped watching that t because of stage racing and the playoffs.
The big issue with the playoffs is that, theoretically, it should increase viewership in the playoffs, but, if you look at the viewership statistics, viewership goes down when the playoffs start
Could you imagine Jeff Gordon not being the Champion in '98 when he won 13 races because he finished 2nd in the last race of the season? The best season any driver has ever had in the modern era. One could say Waltrip in '81 and '82 with his 12 wins each season in 28 races. Gordon, however, won in the most competitive seasons in NASCAR history. The drivers & teams in '98 were better then than any year I can remember which goes back to the mid '70s.
I quite like stage racing. Instead of 3,5h of racing in circles and not doing anything, it's 3 times 1h racing with something to win. Do you sacrifice the stage win to win the whole thing or try to get both? It made the race more interesting long term.
7 roadcources get it right
Watch Nascar for about a year two years now and also try to follow the social media discussions between fans. It seems that to this day the fanbase is split on the format. Some find it to gimmicky others seem to enjoy the drama it produces. The only thing i know is that it didn't had the desired effect atleast because the popularity of the sport was at low point just two or three years ago.
In my opionion they should have stuck with a points format with a higher emphazise on winning like F1 did in 2010. The drama aspect never was a big problem because the championships were often decided at the final race like 2002. The cars are close enough performance wise to ensure that. If a driver dominated a season it was because of clever tactics, some loopholes or just driver-ability.
They also do it in British Superbikes as well not so far as this but still stupid
Well, that’s something else I’ve learned today.
Lifelong NASCAR fan here! I am pretty neutral on the playoff format, but there definitely feels like there’s a lack of legitimacy when it comes to a lot of champions. The 2020 season was a prime example. Kevin Harvick ran roughshod on the field for 32 races, but then had bad luck in the round of 8 and missed the championship 4 by getting spun 100 feet from the line at Martinsville. There were some rumblings that they might alter or ditch the playoffs after that, but Ross Chastain’s wall ride allowed NASCAR to say “See! You wouldn’t get that moment without the Playoffs!” Personally, I’d rather see NASCAR go back to a full season championship that rewards consistency, but their argument is that winning is everything and it’s hard to say they’re completely wrong.
its a marketing thing, as you said, plain and simple. Goes back to the age old debate about marketing vs purity.
It’s been 20 years since the old points system
NHRA's one is somehow more convoluted...though they had their own Latford system and it worked well, as did NASCAR's actual Latford system. Both series had Winston as a title sponsor around the same times as well.
My issue with the playoffs is it makes the regular season meaningless since now Byron can coast knowing he has a playoff spot locked up, what's the incentive to run hard the other 25 weeks of the regular season then if he's already won the season opener?
In my humble opinion I think they should get rid of stage cautions because I feel like it’ll be more enticing to watch strategy wise.
As a fan of all of types of racing I really hate stage racing and the elimination playoff. If they had elimination playoffs back in the 1950s through 1990s Earnhardt and Richard Petty wound not have won 7 championships. It feels wrong when a driver and team have a great season but then a single bad race ruins the season.
Matt Kenseth was my favorite driver while he was active. I did, and still do despise the hate he gets for the point systems shakeup.
The system needs to go back to the way it was. No stages, just racing for X amount of laps. No mandatory caution, no stops unless flags dictate so.
There were a lot more winners last year. I think about 14-15. It almost reached the full field and only one guy made it in on points.
Thank you so much for talking about NASCAR!
I'm a life-long NASCAR fan: I believe the Playoff System today is good, for the most part. When you have as many races as the NASCAR Cup Series does, it makes sense to create a format that pushes competitors to raise their game at the end of the season. There are too many races which can allow a full-season format to get out of hand. The elimination creates drama that wouldn't already be there in the regular season and the post season and generally eliminates the correct drivers from championship contention. Playoff points does a good job of taking performance from the first 26 races and rewarding drivers correctly in the next 9 races (yes 9). The Championship 4 part is the one part that ruins everything. There is absolutely no reason to have a single heads-up race to decide the champion. This is where we get wacky champions like Logano and Hemric. Much of the fan-base would like to see the final round be three races to offer drivers a more even playing field to crown the champion. While I do believe this format is effective up until the final race, it is still very confusing. With NASCAR potentially on the rise, it's biggest obstacle will be explaining this format to new fans. It's way too much for a casual fan to take in and it could use some simplification.
NASCAR's playoff format is so flawed, that the best/most consistent driver doesn't go on to win the championship. There's a list of drivers that could've won the championship in a normal points format for example Jeff Gordon would've been a 7 time Cup Series champion instead of Jimmie Johnson.
Kevin Harvick a 4 time champ...Johnson only legitimately has 3
@@PaperBanjo64 Carl Edwards would've won the championship in 2011 instead of Tony Stewart.
@@thembanjoko2844 and 2008
@thembanjoko28 2011 was one of the only good years for the playoffs...everything else was a borderline joke...2005, 06, 09, 12 and 13 were the only seasons the legitimate season long champion won