The mobile sensor array helps you detect subterranean and cloaked units in a large area when you deploy them, you wont be able to known if it's APC or flame tank when they emerge but you can at least prepare your defenses. Also the sensor array is also very important later on when you attack Nod bases later which are fully cloaked (i recommend using two of them when you are attacking cloaked bases).
Who are these 2 guys who always downvote every video in this series? They're always one of the first to see/rate TibSun videos, it's almost like these videos are released with 2 downvotes from beginning. I understand someone may not like how Jay plays this game - but in this case why bother at all? Geez, some people are weird.
As far as I know even downvotes net you a better Google rating than a view without vote, so just give an upvote and let them have their "fun" with their downvotes.
Jay, the Nod air support are Harpy attack helicopters. They're mainly harassment / anti-infantry air support. Banshees will be much worse later on because you'll know them when you see them... fast, hard-hitting, and nothing short of absolutely irritating to deal with. That building you lost when you reclaimed Hammerfest was the GDI Tech Center. Since you already had it for a brief time before it was destroyed, I don't think you lose existing tech unless if your production gets KO'd too. However, it's also worth noting with tech increases, that you now have access to Power Turbines. Those are basically 'component addons' for your power plants to increase their efficiency for a fraction of the cost of seperately building a whole new power plant structure. This map has always been tricky to contend with, at least for me, because of the NOD Artillery units. Air does counter them, yes, but Nod has so many fast, reactive ways to shoot your stuff down that I've had to either A) Use that back route, or B) Spam Titans only and steamroll them, Stalingrad-style. Which is where GDI shines, really: What they lack in elegance, they make up for in brute strength.
As far as I noticed, you're the first person to mention enhancing GDI Power Plants. Which means he probably tries it in the next mission - something I've been waiting for.
The sad issue with old games being played anew in modern times by people who didn't grow up with them; the manual is very often overlooked, so both tech trees and upgrades are either missed or misunderstood at first.
Hi Jay, A few notes: Jump Jet Infantry are not awful; as you've seen, they are just an absolute pain to control. By contrast, Orca Fighters are literally twice as fast, allowing you to get in and out while taking less fire from static defense and giving the enemy defense force less time to response. In addition, their weapon type does much more damage to large buildings (factories, construction yards, refineries) and some static defense. And finally, while just as stupid about moving around while attacking, they are less prone to just landing during combat. I think the main reason you haven't seen Orcas' usefulness is that you're trying to get things done with just one or two, whereas with Jump Jets you were routinely attacking with eight or more. Orcas are better with four to eight in a group (equivalent in cost to your Jump Jet groups). Then you can often snipe a target before using up all their ammo, so that you can avoid a lot of their moving-around stupidity as well as prevent the enemy from repairing. They have better surviveability than Jump Jets when used this way, at the cost of having less sustained-combat ability because they need to reload. In short, Orcas are significantly better snipers, though only so-so close air support and can't scout. Later on you'll also get Orca Bombers, which are less for sniping individual buildings and more for dealing big AOE damage. Finally, as GDI you can build Power Turbines on top of your Power Plants (up to two Turbines per Plant), which provide more power for less cost and less space. As NOD you will be able to build Advanced Power Plants, which provide the same benefits except that they take more space than GDI's and you can't upgrade your existing power plants like GDI can. In either case, though, it does make a bigger risk if they get destroyed. In either case, thank you so much for playing this! It's one of my favorite RTS games despite the awful, awful unit AI, just for its premise, tone, and mechanics. I hope you can get some enjoyment from it as well! - Xi-entaj
Excellent notes! And as one who grew up with it, its definitely one of my favorites as well. The atmosphere and design is really great and felt pretty immersive at the time. And though I admit it wasn't the game I thought it would be when I was waiting for it to be released, I kept playing and replaying it.
21:30: Sigh...Firestorm needs power....you should destroy/ take over the 2 plants in the top left corner in the first place...then take over the base and re-establish the power. Everyone knows the basics, power down first.
I dont know if this is a soft fail trigger but for some reson when i captured that Radar relay i dident get the radar map but a few areas of the map was revealed aswell as 1 of NOD´s long range artillery vehicles desided to set itself up right next to that first Hand of NOD making it totally impossable to progress. I play on HARD btw but having that artillery piece there it cant have been supposed to be there becouse it became 100% impossable to get past it. A neat trick i found is to leave the first Radar standing untill u get past the Obelisk of Light and kill the Artillery vehicle then capture it. If u dont wanna risk it u could also wait untill u got the base under control and then send the APC with an Engineer to capture it that way u still get the extra map vision. I dont know what they thought about when they made those Orcas becouse that version absolutly sucks at killing anything. 3 or 4 of them can do dmg sure but if there is even 1 SAM or a few AA units nearby the Orcas are fucked becouse they take FOREVER to start shooting and when they cost 1k each u dont wanna just throw them away effectivly making them nearly useless as u cant do hit and run tactics to take out an Artillery piece for example.
Hey buddy, exactly happened to me, had to restart and go again, no capture before obelisk, you can still pass powered obelisk by sacrificing 2 MLRS but you will get punished by arty and transport is toast. Hard start indeed.
Just saying, it's good that you did not captured the Nod Radar - once you do that, several arty units appear on the map to annoy you, making this mission nearly impossible to complete.
Horrible game design this was. You've played how many C&C franchise missions where capturing an outpost gets you to the next objective? This one time though.. NOPE.
learned my lesson last night, I was wondering how to trick out the arty, then saw Jay demo that pos radar and things turned out different for good old me
Just to let you know, if you try to capture the radar, it will reveal 2 bases, a big one on the left with a con yard, and the right a small outpost with 3 power plant and a hand of nod, but it ain't worth it as artilleries will spawn and deploy there, preventing you to progress
In the next mission you can end it real fast or make it super long. For long path, you make a full assault to the enemy railway station. For the short path use your Hover MLRS to move south east of the map and to the broken bridge and attack it (edit: the train) Note: that there are a couple of gotcha moments from the stealth tanks
Unfortunately there is no easy way of dealing with the Nod artillery. Best would be to build a small group of Orcas and try to snipe them. You will lose some Orcas but it is what it is. And yeah honestly I quite like using Jump Jet Infantry. Sure they might be expensive, but once you get a large group of them, they can take out almost anything. Just as long as you have a group of Orca bombers on standby to take out SAM sites. Iirc the AI doesn't build enough bikes and rocket infantry to counter a deathball of Jump Jet Infantry.
Well this was fun for the artiellery yu gotta suicide fast units/orcas like the hover the closer yu get they cant hit you so don't be afraid take em out Jay. And yes that was an obelisk at the beginning had you not destroyed the power plants it would ´have been online. Power turbines are for your power plants yu can add 2 turbines each gives more space to build always build tech center it provides tier 3 units. GG
might've helped to have got to the repairing sooner & you can build turbines to futher power up your base without always having to build new power plants & aside from the mission when your in an ion storm make more use of hover mlrs also the mobile sensor array really helps in detecting cloaked & burrowed units
You were doing so well, Jay. You actually called the central structure a _Con. Yard!_ (21:31) I was _so proud_ of you! … then, you ruined it by calling it an MCV. (24:00) I am so disappointed.
Nod has a global tunnel network and GDI has giant flying ships, maybe the faction blobs in the map refer to the effective coverage/range of those things?
The power turbines attach to the power plants much like the base defenses to the component tower. If I remember you can place it anywhere as long as the tile is occupied by the power plant so you'll save a little time if you're not anal like me and try to fit it into the slots. It obvious but you can fit 2 to a plant. You're right, that structure is the Nod Obelisk of Light. Should shut down in low power. The nod aircraft here are actually harpies. They're the opposite of the orca and dedicated as anti-infantry. The banshees will be introduced later on as a plot point and are the other nod aircraft they take up an antivehicle role. Cyborgs are more vulnerable to anti-vehicle weapons. They're basically walking vehicles. Titans should be the answer. Though technically titans are the answer to everything (except air). The firestorm defense is scripted in missions to last indefinitely. Normally, they're active for a short period of time then deactivate. Then you'll have to wait for a cooldown. That doesn't mean you shouldn't build them! They can actually negate Nod's superweapons (the multi-missile and the chem missile). You just have to build the walls in the general direction of the missiles and activate it when you get the launch warning ("Missile Launch Detected" or something like that). As long as it's built it costs nothing to use. Funny how Nod can be countered on this front but GDI's ion cannon can't. At least the multi-missile does more damage. I don't think it needs to be said but you shouldn't have anything on top of the walls when you activate it. Of more important note, make sure you know where your aircraft are when you want to activate it. I think ground units usually avoid active walls but aircraft won't since they B-line to their objective. You don't want an unexpected fireworks show you had to pay for when you still have noddies to kill.
I think Tiberiun Sun would have ben more succesfull if there was a simple attack move command and the vision range of some units was doubled. The vison range of some units is absurdly small.
I think I just got used to it back in the day, but thinking about it, I agree. Hell, even just a 50% increase would be far more reasonable. But considering how pressed Westwood ended up being back when they worked on it, it's a bit of a wonder it all worked as well as it did.
It's not global. The EMP actually has a pretty short map range. You can get more coverage by placing more EMP Cannons around. It's longer ranged than Artillery, but it's not something you can use against enemy bases unless you rush an MCV near them. Mostly, you use it against enemy armies attacking you.
God the artillery in this base sucks I lost a whole push because they hid artillery in the edges behind power plants so I can hear them shoot but cant easily see them lol Plus if you capture the radar it gives you vision but agros an artillery and makes the mission impossible, game oversight
Urgh, itz easy mose. You cap initial radar tower fornbase intel (power means shit here). But the bastards have artillery the destroy the crap out of you from the right hand hand side of that little isle onwards
Jay, your good at the game, but why do you save scum? I saw my grandfather do this mission and he lost 2 of the three hover AA (dont remember there name) and he did it in half the time you did. point of the story, accept your losses.
The mobile sensor array helps you detect subterranean and cloaked units in a large area when you deploy them, you wont be able to known if it's APC or flame tank when they emerge but you can at least prepare your defenses. Also the sensor array is also very important later on when you attack Nod bases later which are fully cloaked (i recommend using two of them when you are attacking cloaked bases).
Who are these 2 guys who always downvote every video in this series?
They're always one of the first to see/rate TibSun videos, it's almost like these videos are released with 2 downvotes from beginning.
I understand someone may not like how Jay plays this game - but in this case why bother at all?
Geez, some people are weird.
As far as I know even downvotes net you a better Google rating than a view without vote, so just give an upvote and let them have their "fun" with their downvotes.
Jay, the Nod air support are Harpy attack helicopters. They're mainly harassment / anti-infantry air support. Banshees will be much worse later on because you'll know them when you see them... fast, hard-hitting, and nothing short of absolutely irritating to deal with.
That building you lost when you reclaimed Hammerfest was the GDI Tech Center. Since you already had it for a brief time before it was destroyed, I don't think you lose existing tech unless if your production gets KO'd too. However, it's also worth noting with tech increases, that you now have access to Power Turbines. Those are basically 'component addons' for your power plants to increase their efficiency for a fraction of the cost of seperately building a whole new power plant structure.
This map has always been tricky to contend with, at least for me, because of the NOD Artillery units. Air does counter them, yes, but Nod has so many fast, reactive ways to shoot your stuff down that I've had to either A) Use that back route, or B) Spam Titans only and steamroll them, Stalingrad-style. Which is where GDI shines, really: What they lack in elegance, they make up for in brute strength.
Has anyone told him, that he can get more power by building power turbines on GDI Power Plants rather than just building more power plants?
As far as I noticed, you're the first person to mention enhancing GDI Power Plants.
Which means he probably tries it in the next mission - something I've been waiting for.
Jay, you had a Tech Building which is needed to unlock Tier 3 stuff like Firestorm Walls. Checking out anything new could be beneficial.
Also he can place two power turbines on reactors for more power on each one.
The sad issue with old games being played anew in modern times by people who didn't grow up with them; the manual is very often overlooked, so both tech trees and upgrades are either missed or misunderstood at first.
Heavy heapons in general are good against cyborgs, but EMP is especially good to take then down since they can't move or attack.
Hi Jay,
A few notes:
Jump Jet Infantry are not awful; as you've seen, they are just an absolute pain to control. By contrast, Orca Fighters are literally twice as fast, allowing you to get in and out while taking less fire from static defense and giving the enemy defense force less time to response. In addition, their weapon type does much more damage to large buildings (factories, construction yards, refineries) and some static defense. And finally, while just as stupid about moving around while attacking, they are less prone to just landing during combat.
I think the main reason you haven't seen Orcas' usefulness is that you're trying to get things done with just one or two, whereas with Jump Jets you were routinely attacking with eight or more. Orcas are better with four to eight in a group (equivalent in cost to your Jump Jet groups). Then you can often snipe a target before using up all their ammo, so that you can avoid a lot of their moving-around stupidity as well as prevent the enemy from repairing. They have better surviveability than Jump Jets when used this way, at the cost of having less sustained-combat ability because they need to reload. In short, Orcas are significantly better snipers, though only so-so close air support and can't scout.
Later on you'll also get Orca Bombers, which are less for sniping individual buildings and more for dealing big AOE damage.
Finally, as GDI you can build Power Turbines on top of your Power Plants (up to two Turbines per Plant), which provide more power for less cost and less space. As NOD you will be able to build Advanced Power Plants, which provide the same benefits except that they take more space than GDI's and you can't upgrade your existing power plants like GDI can. In either case, though, it does make a bigger risk if they get destroyed.
In either case, thank you so much for playing this! It's one of my favorite RTS games despite the awful, awful unit AI, just for its premise, tone, and mechanics. I hope you can get some enjoyment from it as well!
- Xi-entaj
Excellent notes! And as one who grew up with it, its definitely one of my favorites as well. The atmosphere and design is really great and felt pretty immersive at the time. And though I admit it wasn't the game I thought it would be when I was waiting for it to be released, I kept playing and replaying it.
Jump Jet Infantry are also anti air. When theyre on the ground (and even while flying I believe) they can hit air units.
21:30: Sigh...Firestorm needs power....you should destroy/ take over the 2 plants in the top left corner in the first place...then take over the base and re-establish the power. Everyone knows the basics, power down first.
One full hour of entertainment. You spoil us, Jay.
I dont know if this is a soft fail trigger but for some reson when i captured that Radar relay i dident get the radar map but a few areas of the map was revealed aswell as 1 of NOD´s long range artillery vehicles desided to set itself up right next to that first Hand of NOD making it totally impossable to progress. I play on HARD btw but having that artillery piece there it cant have been supposed to be there becouse it became 100% impossable to get past it.
A neat trick i found is to leave the first Radar standing untill u get past the Obelisk of Light and kill the Artillery vehicle then capture it. If u dont wanna risk it u could also wait untill u got the base under control and then send the APC with an Engineer to capture it that way u still get the extra map vision.
I dont know what they thought about when they made those Orcas becouse that version absolutly sucks at killing anything. 3 or 4 of them can do dmg sure but if there is even 1 SAM or a few AA units nearby the Orcas are fucked becouse they take FOREVER to start shooting and when they cost 1k each u dont wanna just throw them away effectivly making them nearly useless as u cant do hit and run tactics to take out an Artillery piece for example.
Hey buddy, exactly happened to me, had to restart and go again, no capture before obelisk, you can still pass powered obelisk by sacrificing 2 MLRS but you will get punished by arty and transport is toast. Hard start indeed.
Just saying, it's good that you did not captured the Nod Radar - once you do that, several arty units appear on the map to annoy you, making this mission nearly impossible to complete.
Horrible game design this was. You've played how many C&C franchise missions where capturing an outpost gets you to the next objective? This one time though.. NOPE.
learned my lesson last night, I was wondering how to trick out the arty, then saw Jay demo that pos radar and things turned out different for good old me
@@kmcombine4773 I was stuck there is no way of completing this mission if you capture the radar
Just to let you know, if you try to capture the radar, it will reveal 2 bases, a big one on the left with a con yard, and the right a small outpost with 3 power plant and a hand of nod, but it ain't worth it as artilleries will spawn and deploy there, preventing you to progress
Crucial information right here.
In the next mission you can end it real fast or make it super long. For long path, you make a full assault to the enemy railway station. For the short path use your Hover MLRS to move south east of the map and to the broken bridge and attack it (edit: the train)
Note: that there are a couple of gotcha moments from the stealth tanks
and he can capture an outpost to make troops for the assault on the train for the short path
Unfortunately there is no easy way of dealing with the Nod artillery. Best would be to build a small group of Orcas and try to snipe them. You will lose some Orcas but it is what it is.
And yeah honestly I quite like using Jump Jet Infantry. Sure they might be expensive, but once you get a large group of them, they can take out almost anything. Just as long as you have a group of Orca bombers on standby to take out SAM sites. Iirc the AI doesn't build enough bikes and rocket infantry to counter a deathball of Jump Jet Infantry.
In this mission it is best to stay away from all the nod outposts due to by chances you may alert nod artillery.
Which I did haha, mission failed
Well this was fun for the artiellery yu gotta suicide fast units/orcas like the hover the closer yu get they cant hit you so don't be afraid take em out Jay.
And yes that was an obelisk at the beginning had you not destroyed the power plants it would ´have been online.
Power turbines are for your power plants yu can add 2 turbines each gives more space to build always build tech center it provides tier 3 units.
GG
Instead of quiting and restarting to read the briefing. You can just bring up the menu and click on the restate briefing tab.
might've helped to have got to the repairing sooner & you can build turbines to futher power up your base without always having to build new power plants & aside from the mission when your in an ion storm make more use of hover mlrs also the mobile sensor array really helps in detecting cloaked & burrowed units
You were doing so well, Jay. You actually called the central structure a _Con. Yard!_ (21:31) I was _so proud_ of you! … then, you ruined it by calling it an MCV. (24:00)
I am so disappointed.
Ikr Goodies'' and Naughties' borders/occupied territories on mission briefing maps are so randomly placed imo...
Nod has a global tunnel network and GDI has giant flying ships, maybe the faction blobs in the map refer to the effective coverage/range of those things?
58:50 Those are called maritime boundaries and conflict zones of control.
The power turbines attach to the power plants much like the base defenses to the component tower. If I remember you can place it anywhere as long as the tile is occupied by the power plant so you'll save a little time if you're not anal like me and try to fit it into the slots. It obvious but you can fit 2 to a plant.
You're right, that structure is the Nod Obelisk of Light. Should shut down in low power.
The nod aircraft here are actually harpies. They're the opposite of the orca and dedicated as anti-infantry. The banshees will be introduced later on as a plot point and are the other nod aircraft they take up an antivehicle role.
Cyborgs are more vulnerable to anti-vehicle weapons. They're basically walking vehicles. Titans should be the answer. Though technically titans are the answer to everything (except air).
The firestorm defense is scripted in missions to last indefinitely. Normally, they're active for a short period of time then deactivate. Then you'll have to wait for a cooldown. That doesn't mean you shouldn't build them! They can actually negate Nod's superweapons (the multi-missile and the chem missile). You just have to build the walls in the general direction of the missiles and activate it when you get the launch warning ("Missile Launch Detected" or something like that). As long as it's built it costs nothing to use.
Funny how Nod can be countered on this front but GDI's ion cannon can't. At least the multi-missile does more damage. I don't think it needs to be said but you shouldn't have anything on top of the walls when you activate it. Of more important note, make sure you know where your aircraft are when you want to activate it. I think ground units usually avoid active walls but aircraft won't since they B-line to their objective. You don't want an unexpected fireworks show you had to pay for when you still have noddies to kill.
I think Tiberiun Sun would have ben more succesfull if there was a simple attack move command and the vision range of some units was doubled. The vison range of some units is absurdly small.
I think I just got used to it back in the day, but thinking about it, I agree. Hell, even just a 50% increase would be far more reasonable. But considering how pressed Westwood ended up being back when they worked on it, it's a bit of a wonder it all worked as well as it did.
Kane’s insain
I think the EMP cannon is a global Power defense, but it's almost a decade I've played this.
It's not global. The EMP actually has a pretty short map range. You can get more coverage by placing more EMP Cannons around. It's longer ranged than Artillery, but it's not something you can use against enemy bases unless you rush an MCV near them. Mostly, you use it against enemy armies attacking you.
@@shadowarchon7964 Thank you for the correction, as I said been a decade since I played the game. Memory can be a bit fuzzy. 😉
11:14 surprise hahaha lol
can we get a 4k re make of this game PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD and... firestorm
How do you agroup the vehicules
ctrl+number from 0-9 or hold shift and left click another unit to add it to the currently selected group
I nevet got with Tiberian Sun why its so hard to kill troops with rockets, in real world they would be dead with one missle shot
God the artillery in this base sucks
I lost a whole push because they hid artillery in the edges behind power plants so I can hear them shoot but cant easily see them lol
Plus if you capture the radar it gives you vision but agros an artillery and makes the mission impossible, game oversight
Geez an hour this mission would be easy i mean look at these healing crates not to meantion this guy saves way to much
He did it blind, too, I may add (first time playthrough)
Apcs can run over infantry
Urgh, itz easy mose. You cap initial radar tower fornbase intel (power means shit here). But the bastards have artillery the destroy the crap out of you from the right hand hand side of that little isle onwards
Jay, your good at the game, but why do you save scum? I saw my grandfather do this mission and he lost 2 of the three hover AA (dont remember there name) and he did it in half the time you did. point of the story, accept your losses.
I'm first?