Extra History - Kursk #2 // Historian Reaction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- See the original video here - • The Battle of Kursk - ...
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#WW2 #History
When a Tiger can only carry 92 shells so you send 93 T-34’s to deal with it
big brain
Especially on the western front tigers would often run out of ammo before the enemy ran out of tanks
If you only send 93, the other tigers next to the first tiger will decimate them. You send 93 t-34s for every tiger they have.
I've heard the same joke about the Sherman.
Just incase anyone unironicly believe this , this is a joke not fact infact the % loss is much heavier on the German and most of German tank are pz 2,3,4 which get beat by T-34 no problem.
"Quantity has a quality all it's own."
Beat me to it.
- Josef Stalin
"Humans cause problems. No humans, no problems."
~ Josef Stalin
Try that philosophy against modern guided weaponry. Wait, I'll answer for you- it fails tremendously.
@@drumkommandr9779 CWIS go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
Re pronunciation: His name von Manstein is pronounced as “fon munshtine”. Normally, “st” is pronounced as “sht” only at the start of the word (the same applies to “sp” = “shp”) but his name is a compound word: “der Stein” means “stone” and is usually part of castle names.
The letter “v” is always probounced as “f”. And the letter “w” is always plain “v”. So, Lewinski is “levvinski”, not “looinski”.
The diphtong “ei” is pronounced as “ai” and the digraph (not diphtong!) “ie” is pronounced as “ee”.
Do note that the above all only works if in the relevant languages.
ie and ei in say, dutch, are again pronounced totally differently.
ie, f, sp, etc. etc. don't have "a" pronunciation. They have a lot of them depending on the language.
@@Londronable This is about German pronunciation (i.e the German general’s name) described in English. I’d never imagined this must be noted.
@@vaclavblazek Main reason I did it was because I didn't know "Lewinski" was about German anymore or not.
@@Londronable Lewinski was Manstein’s birth name. It’s in the video.
Is "ai" right though? Since "rain" or "gain" are spoken like German "räin" "gäin". So I guess "ei" = "i".
Also to add "Man" is pronounced "man" and not "mæn" like he says in the video.
You know you are in the history when you have watched at least 90% of the videos he has reacted to
I have recently found your videos and love them! You actually know what youre talking about which really adds to the content. My Grandad always tells me of his time in the RAF during the battle of britain. I've started showing him your videos and he loves them too so thank you
Your grandad is a WW2 vet and still living? That's awesome. Please tell him a BIG thank you for his service. The RAF saved the world during the Battle of Britain.
@@VloggingThroughHistory He lied about his age to sign up for the RAF at 17, turns 98 this year, my favourite person alive. He will love that you shouted him out, thanks alot!
@@VloggingThroughHistory Nab him for an interview/guest spot to talk about the Battle of Britain if you can. :)
Your grandpa is simply put a Chad
The German pincer movements and counter attacks are also part of historical deeply ingrained philosophies/cultures of warfare.
Germany and Prussia in particular have Bewegungskrieg (war of movement) and seeking out decisive battles as part of their this is how wars have to be fought DNA.
This dials back a long way. Best example is Frederick the Great who fought this way because he could not afford a drawn out war of attrition. He nearly had to seek peace in the 7th year war. Not because of losing a large battle but because the costs (especially in manpower) and enemies raids/occupations took their toll. Peter 3rd of Russia saved him offering a favourable peace.
I'm a German and a big fan of your channel. Your pronunciation of Manstein is really good for an American.
"For an American" XDXD
Man this channel has reignited my passion for history. I have my bachelors in history but got a desk job right after college and history went by the wayside, so glad this channel exists
I watched these videos years ago as part of a script i needed to write for school. It was about the history of tanks since the first one to today. And ofcourse if you write a script about tanks you can't leave out kursk. It is fun to rewatch these now and thinking back about the struggles i had😂. Keep doing these, you're doing great
it really is a great thing of you to admit you dont know everything, even in the field you studied. so many think they know everything. but seeing a humble historian asking for OUR knowledge about something really is a cool thing. i myself am a history nerd about military history. but i dont know nearly enough to keep up with historians. but i really am good at searching the knowledge behind something. especially sabaton songs. if you need some help with the history behind some songs i would happily help you via discord.
and to the point of deaths in the soviet army. Stalin said: one death is a tragedy, millions of deaths are mere statistics
Well saying "I studied history, so I am an expert in all history" is like me saying "I studied computer engineering so I am an expert in all engineering" or even "I studied computer enginieering so I am an expert in all fields of digital technology".
Love how quietly he watches, like, yes so accurate and loving
Russia built a total of 85,000 T-34’s, but only 56,000 were actually produced during that war, the rest were produced after the war
I know you are looking for merch ideas, and I really love your content. I would totally buy a history guy mug that says
"I came, I saw, I conquered"
Hey man great videos just remember us when we were there for you and no one else was don’t let the power get your head like other dictators
No worries. This channel is nothing without the awesome community we have.
Kinda dramatic! But also in spirit!
Found my channel going to start binge watching
I would very much like to see your reaction and your thoughts about the video "The Main reason Germany lost WW2 - Oil" by TIK.
Thank you so much for what are you doing :)
My great grand father was an engineer in the Soviet Union and was actually part of the team that designed the engine for the T-34 tank. A little cool part of family history
That is very cool!
Bro im in love with ur videos ❤️
Tfw your brand spanking new tank is knocked out by mechanical failure instead of by any anti armor gun or munition
You are cool, man! Thank you for your interest for Easter front.
If your interested in learning more about the tank battles of the Eastern Front, then you should check out The Greatest Tank Battle Series. Also, the T-34 is my favorite tank!
You are right about the pronounciation of the name "Von Manstein".
Bruh love u so much thanks!
I find myself watching too many TH-cam videos but at least they are history videos
Rommel tried (well he was ordered to try) the same pincer movement in N. Africa, but one horn (the northern) got blunted heavily by the sacrifice of 155 battery at the entrance to Hunts Gap, Sidi Nsir, when with 8 25lb field guns (initially supported by the 5th Battalion (Hampshire) Infantry Brigade) manned by totally inexperienced troops (9 officers, 121 enlisted men) fresh from what was known as "a swim in the med" (their ship was sunk under them by torpedo in the Mediterranean) they held off 77 tanks including 20 Tigers, 13 battallions (13,000) infantry supported by a further 2 divisions (30,000) and 8 bf109s of the Luftwaffe for the 24 hours from 26th to 27th February1943, which time was necessary for a well organised defence to be mounted. They fought to the muzzle, taking out numerous tanks including a number of Tigers, took down 2 bf109s with Bren guns, and went down singing "Praise The Lord and Pass the Ammunition". The final message after "tanks are on us" was "dit-dit-dit-daah". Nine survivors made it back to British lines, 7 of whom were wounded. 5 (wounded) prisoners were taken by the Germans, although this wasn't known until later (nor were the number of survivers crawling back). Keen to avenge 155 battery, the British mauled the German offensive (still licking its wounds from SidiNsir) into retreat and only 5 tanks including 1 Tiger escaped. It was the final blow for the Axis powers in N.Africa, which never again attempted any serious counter-attack, and retreated continuously until a quarter of a million were taken prisoner.
THAT was what made Hitler so furious that he issued his infamous "no retreat" order.
I REALLY want Sabaton to cover that battle one day, and it is worthy of their attention.
My father commanded a battery of 25lb'ers in the RA post war, and it was legendary even then, held up as an example of the commitment that was expected.
After battle of Kursk you should check out the Warsaw Uprising by Extra Credits
The simple (though often not easy) way to save a threatened salient is to pull your exposed forces back and straighten out your line.
But neither the Soviets nor the Nazis ever really considered that an option. When you stand and fight to the death, death is often what you get.
Also the T34-was one of the reason why hitler had the tiger built once they found out how good the 88mm anti aircraft gun was against tanks
I whatced all your video reactions about ww1 because my great grandfather fought it.
I still have his diary and his medals.
Great things from Italy.
He fought at Kursk? Did he survive?
My go to was a trick from one of my German teachers "Einstein's niece" is a pretty decent way to remember it.
In addition to the focus on Panthers and Tigers which were introduced at Kursk (although I believe Tiger was in service earlier in 1942), by the time of Kursk, the Panzer iii and more substantially the Panzer iv, were both up armored and up gunned, being equipped with high velocity variants of their 5cm and 7.5cm guns, respectively. I believe new armor piercing rounds were being used at this point as well. This extended the service life of both vehicles and specifically for the Panzer iv made it the real workhorse of the Panzerwaffe until the end of the war (the p iii would be phased out in favor of the Stug iii).
You’re awesome! Keep it going
Your pronuncing of the name "mannstein" is exactly right. Anyway i m often surprised how good your pronunciation of non english names is, a Thing most americans struggle much more with than you. Best greatings from Berlin, germany 👋
Unfortunately I don’t think many Americans concern themselves with pronouncing things correctly. I try to when possible. When someone points out where I get it wrong I try to learn from that and get it right the next time.
Encirclement, out-flanking, pincers attacks, etc have been used on basically every era at all scales of conflict, from squad-sized engagements to open battlefields to invasions of nations.
There is a great movie T-34. I’m not sure how historically accurate it is, but very entertaining tank movie. P.S. Love the shirt
Day 2 of mentioning Panzerkampf by Sabaton, it's about the battle of Kursk and is potentially one of their most well known songs.
I know that one well. One of my son's favorites.
i high;y recommend you to react to the singleplayer campaigns of battlefield 1 or atleast their cutscenes
With the last name of Kreider, I can tell you that you are correct. It's pronounced as an "I". "CRY DUR". Krieger, on the other hand, would be pronounced KREE GUR.
The early T-34s had major drawbacks in key areas that aren’t often covered on data sheets. They had terrible reliability and quality control. While they had amazing armor they suffered from bad visibility from the crew. This armor also cause the tanks to have bad ergonomics with comparatively cramped quarters and overworked crew.
I'm no expert, but I believe that was somewhat intentional. It came down to Eastern vs Western philosophy regarding "what is quality?". In the west, quality meant something that lasts a long time, wont break down, can keep going for ever, etc. In the east, quality meant something easy to maintain and repair. So Germany made beautiful tanks which were a work of art, with intricate mechanisms and such and could keep on running/fighting/whatever-ing. However, when one broke down (f-ing Ferdinands) or was damaged, they needed another tank to bring it back to a depo for specialized and trained engineers to fix it. Also, these tanks cost resources since they were this intricate, and spare parts weren't easy to make and bring. In stark contrast, in Russia, tanks were made to be unreliable in a sense. Russians did the math and noticed that their tanks would survive for an average of a few weeks or about 150km of front. So there wasn't a point in making some sophisticated, hard to produce wonder tank if it barely survives a few weeks since all that production quality would be wasted. So they designed and engineered their tanks with that in mind. What resulted were tanks that had a very simple design, which meant that :
1. they were easy to make
2. they were easy to maintain/repair (to the point were even the tank crew itself only needed minimal knowledge and training to fix their tanks, so no need to waste time and resource to get a tank behind, or specialized engineers needed to patch it up. Heck, if you needed spare parts, there was likely another friendly tank ruin nearby to scavenge)
These 2 factors meant that Russia dominated production, and could keep pushing forward without losing momentum despite casualties, while Germans simply couldn't match this. It also saved on time since transporting a tank to a place were only a select few could perform repairs, and then send it back didn't happen overnight, while having every tank crew be their own engineers meant that a damaged tank would be back in the fight a lot faster.
To sum it up, a T-34 outside the context of WW2 is a bad tank, yes. Poor quality, bad optics, horrible crew space. But In the context of WW2 when it was made and mass produced, it was an ideal tank. It's slopped armour increased it's survivability (at the cost of crew space and comfort), while it's gun was strong enough to take on Germany's best tanks. And at the end of the day, that's all the Russians needed : a tank that could be mass produced, was easy to fix, could survive direct hits for a time and had enough firepower to down Germany's best toys. Reliability, comfort, crew space, those are things worth sacrificing if it means winning the war. Not to mention the allies being spooked at 40k+ tanks.
@@bogdangabrielonete3467
Nah, it definitely wasn't intentional, it was just terrible quality control and assurance, and substandard materials being used.
The issues with early T-34's were such things as not being able to see outside the tank because the optics and periscopes had faulty seals or lacked them outright causing the glass to fog up. (Everyone loves the story of the T-34 taking 30+ 37mm hits to knock out, few ask why after taking 30+ hits the crew still hadn't seen the gun and fired back)
Gaps in the armor plates you could stick your finger in, which in addition to bad hatch seals that let rain water leak in and ruin electronics, is what made Soviet tanks so vulnerable to Molotov cocktails in the first place.
A gearbox so bad the driver needed a sledgehammer to get past 2nd gear, meaning T-34's rarely if ever got near their top performance, in addition to the transmission being so bad that there's photos of T-34's going into battle with a spare strapped to their deck.
The armor also lacked face-hardening (which is what can cause an AP round to shatter, and makes a bounce more likely) as the Russians just hardened the whole plate through (You want the back of the plate to be softer, to better absorb the force and shock of a hit transmitted through the armor), and overhardened it at that (Makes it more brittle, spalls and cracks easier and worse. Which is another reason you only hardened the face of armored steel) in addition to already being poor quality steel causing the plates to spall and crack badly when hit.
The tank the Germans ran into the most trouble with contrary to history wasn't even the early T-34's, but the thickly armored KV-1. It wasn't until the later T-34's came along that they became a massive issue.
These type of issues with the early T-34's definitely aren't done intentionally, an intentional drawback would be like Sherman's not upgrading to the 76mm earlier, which was because no one wanted it as the 75 had better HE and its AP had done fine against everything it'd come across, with the Tiger and Panther not commonly seen by them until post D-Day. And even then, a 75 Sherman was still capable of knocking them out from the side or rear, or just calling in artillery or for a TD to come up.
Luckily though, the worst issues of the early T-34's were mostly remedied by mid-war though a lot still remained, the tanks were at least at the point they were effective and usable.
An example that's intentional and does include the T-34 is sticking with the Christie Suspension, they knew it was obsolete trash and prototypes had already been made to upgrade to a Torsion Bar T-34, but after the German invasion and horrific tank losses the Soviets suffered, production was prioritized over improvement so Christie it was. To Stalin any production line delay or downtime for improvement was unacceptable, all he wanted was as many as possible as soon as possible. Same with how he regarded the Il-2.
I'd love to see a video about the spanish inquisition or about the VOC.
Needs to review panzerkampf bysabaton since he reviewed battle of kursk
6:30 the germans didn't really need more tanks or panthers, because they lacked the fuel to run the ones they already had.
I think its pretty clear that VTH means that they needed more tanks and more fuel
the tactics of encirclement are left overs from prussian times. the entire prussian military was trained to encircle the enemy and then crush them while they were cut off
Not surprising considering many of the societal factors that allowed hitlers rise to power where also leftovers of the „prussian mentality“ something that still haunts germany to this day
I think cool merch would be like a map of Europe in like 1940 or any year where Europe was very different
A small suggestion for when this series of videos end, seven years war by feature history
The development of the panther tank is actually really interesting. Daimler-Benz actually submitted a design (VK30.02(D)) that was basically a German t-34, and this design was preferred by the German military, but it was passed up in favour of the more sophisticated MAN design that went on to be the panther as this design was favoured by the government (some sources say Hitler himself, but no way to be sure)
This insistence on using 'superior' technology that was often beyond their ability to produce reliably would result in technical problems with all the later German tank designs for the rest of the war.
If they'd settled for the Daimler-Benz design Kursk might've gone differently
there is a docu series named "soviet storm" amazing videos about the great patriotic war
Great video
Great vid
For an example of how superior the KV-1 was, take a look at the Battle of Raseiniai, where a single KV-1 held off an entire German tank division
The KV just like the T-34 was superior only for its armor, but the egonomics of the crew were a nightmare and at the start of Barbarossa all tank drivers had just 20h of practice, thats it, also the fire rate under combat condition of the T-34 in the early face of the war was about 2-3 per minute and something similar for the KV, their vision ports were horrible and combined with an inexpirienced crew all this meant that what many soviets tanks did was running forward taking shots or staying still taking shots, meanwhile the germans flanked them
Manstein as You said it was right 👌🏻
Nice Video
Around a year ago I bought a book that was sort of a diary that went through the life of a a real life German soldier. However he was a jew and had to fight on the Russian Front. Its a good book. Its called "Unlikely Hero." By Georg Rauch, check it out if you want a good read.
Wait, a german jew as a soldier?
@@asdfasdf1397 yeah its he becomes a radio man and get the iron cross. Long story check the book out.
@@CaptainKillroy Thanks for the info, I'll check it out!
That's some badass hardware.
Check out some Napoleonic war history videos, no one ever really pays attention to those wars. I think it's super interesting though.
I second this! We need more Napoleon in our lifes
T34 and KV vs Panzer III, Panzer IV, Panzer V (Panther), Panzer VI (Tiger). I do find it funny how the T34 track links are put back in place by bashing it in with a ramp. Check out the Chieftain youtube channel about it, its hilarious
Where can I by a t-shirt like the one you’re wearing? Would love to get one for myself
That's merch from my gaming channel. Link should be in the description to that channel.
You gotta react to epic history tv.
World war 1 and Napoleon series, they are the best videos I have seen on TH-cam. Amazing. Would love to hear your opinions
I did a reaction to Epic History's video on Austerlitz and they filed a copyright strike against me and told youtube to take it down. I emailed them to ask why (since there are other reactions to it) and got no response.
@@VloggingThroughHistory
Damn thats so annoying, any way you could upload it to dailymotion or some other site and link it here on TH-cam for us to check out? A real shame if you cant do them as imo they are one of the best history channels. ☹️ love your vids tho 👍
Did you go to college? If so, which college did you go to? Inspired by your videos to major in history myself!!
Thiel College in NW Pennsylvania, and later Ohio Christian University.
Don’t forget. T-34s served in many other countries in the eastern bloc; most notably, North Korea.
Check Simple History out, they have some really interesting videos, a scout who liberated a town alone, white feather(an american sniper) and more
Carlos Halthcock I belive white feathers name was
I would love to see you react to German solider remembers ww2 by memoirs of ww2
what was really crazy just in the battle of berlin 6.000 soviet tanks have been in action. really crazy just for one town.
I'm waiting for the reaction of Hogan's Heroes.
You should react to Epic History TV. They have some really good WW1 videos that I think you would like.
They also have great series on Napoleon and Alexander The Great.
Yes, Manshtine is correct. Mansteen is wrong.
I German names, *ei* is never *ee*
Only *ie* is *ee*
And we do always pronounce "st" as "sht". No idea how or when that happens, but except for a few regional accents, it's always with sh.
We do pronounce "st" as "sht" at the beginning of a word, not in the middle of the word. In case of Manstein this is a compound word of "Man" (probably short for "Mann" = man) and "Stein" = stone, so it is still pronounced "shtin" and not "stin".
The entire Soviet war strategy can essentially be summarized as, "If we throw enough (insert object here) at the bullets, eventually, they'll run out of bullets."
Hope you are not seriously think that the Soviet tactic is just that cause that literally propaganda by the German
@@huyhoangtahuu9733 Oh no, I’m just looking at what they did in places like Stalingrad. They drafted a lot of civilians into the war.
You should react to germany could not win WW2 by potential history
Regarding the production quality and losses of t-34s, that was on purpose. They studied how long they were lasting on the battlefield, and then dumpstered production quality in the belief that the tank would be knocked out before any maintenance. This allowed the Soviets to just churn out tanks at an eye watering rate, and it shows. The USSR made more t-34s than the Germans made tanks of all varieties.
VTH, what's your view on TIK videos? Ever watch them?
please react to a lindybeige video
they are longer videos but the ones of the SAS and the diceptions are very good
Not German but Dutch, still can answer: yes your pronounciation of von monstein is correct. Additionally Americans that correct their peers pronounciations of Van Gogh are always wrong :)
Germans learned about sloped armor?
Every country know at the time about slope armor
People doesn't understand that sloping the hull is a compromise between physical space, factory production and weight.
So every time they see a flat armor they think the engineers forget about slope armor
Can you react to Sabatons Lion From The North?
So the issue with that Panther idea is:
Past 1943 and at war with USSR, there is nowhere to get oil for the Germans, so just having more tanks, planes or ships won't help, because those need fuel Germans do not have. Same goes for manpower at that point.
The Soviets did not have the limitless manpower many say they did. Indeed, most Soviet Rifle Divisions were down to 4,000 men by 1945, and the USSR was suffering manpower shortages, due to the vast amount of resources and population that had been occupied by the Germans
The one thing that I will add. Despite the “massive man power” that the USSR had, this war had a drastic affect on them even to this day. Due to almost an entire generation dead due to the casualties of this war, it affected their economy horribly due to loss of workers after the war, and when the people older than the soldiers of WW2 died themselves (natural causes, etc.) they had another massive population drop, starting new problems themselves. The mentality they had was to ensure that the German invasion never took moscow, as well as Stalingrad being a point of pride for Stalin himself as well as others, so they through everything and the kitchen sink at the Germans yes. But this had a definite negative affect on them economy wise, population wise, etc. that’s not really fathomable anywhere else.
yes ei in German is pronounced like eye in English
Idk if you will see this but you should’ve watched Potential history’s video of Kursk. I found it more accurate
yah the scale of the war in the east just dwarfed anything in the west this is why I tend to give the Russian people as a whole credit where credit is dew. Although for Years Churchill railed against the Soviets as monsters but when Germany went to war Churchill fully supported join Russia against German an when some one ask him about his hypocrisy Churchill said "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons"
Check out the Falklands war oversimplified.
Oh thank god. An American that can say STEIN!
Manstein is correct as you pronounced it
Oversimplified Cold War reaction next please.
Wish he was my history teacher
Hang on sloopy
The main attack through ardennes was Manstein's idea
The BIGGEST question i can see not being answered is what does your shirt say? Its driving me crazy not being able to see the last line!
Warning: May Start Talking about History
@@VloggingThroughHistory Awesome. Now just need to find it so i can get myself one. its amazing brings out the geek in me.
I have a suggestion
Why Germany couldn’t have won the war by potential history
epic
Pretty sure this video is about the last hoi4 episode
lol
The narrative of the „clean wehrmacht“ is still so ridiculous. Even if they didn’t participate directly in war crimes (which they did many times) they still conquered the villages/towns/cities which were later exterminated by their colleagues. Whenever you encounter someone claiming the wehrmachts innocence its safe to assume they have some bad faith arguments
Wrote an argumentative essay on why Russian was the biggest reason we won the war and Kursk was one of my point for being the point in which the nazis never had a significant advance again and I used this series for it
Guy sounds like John Oliver lol
Yes the ei mannstein is pronounced i.
INTO THE MOTHERLAND THE GERMAN ARMY MARCH
In the Soviet Union summer 1943
Tanks lined up in thousands, as far the eye can see
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
And, the Panther was plagued by a horrible transmission, giving out after about 150km of driving
Yeah, it had a devastating gun, but it was utterly unreliable. I think two of them just went up in flames just getting off the train car close to the front of Kursk before the battle and around 14 or so of the delivered Panthers broke down just driving the few miles from the train station to their units before the offensive.
@@TheGerudan I think it were the Fredinands that burst into flames
@@TheTimzorz No, two Panther did it...I mean the Ferdinands might have done it as well, not sure...
@@TheGerudan Oh ok, I just heard about a bunch of Ferdinands just catching on fire cus of the experimental electric engine
@@TheGerudan the panther drove mechanics to suicide
I'm sorry I said i don't blame you not knowing it felt rude, sorry
It's all good. This is how we learn by sharing what we've learned and bringing it together.
Ok good, but Can you watch the firts video i linkt by TIK its a good video
Yeah he's making an argument that Dubno was larger than the Battle of Prokhorovka, which was one part of Kursk. It's semantics really. It comes down to how you define the word "battle"
I agree with you and thanks for having a discussion
You should start playing World of Tanks on your gaming channel, it's a really good game.
technically I like Warthunder more although I did play World of Tanks for a bloody long time an with warthunder I like being able to use the multipule weapon systems that those tanks or other vechiles may have
@@Nmccarville nah, War Thunder is a one shot game wich tries to imitate real history but sucks a lot while trying it.