ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Brass Prep For F-Open
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ค. 2022
- Visit us on Patreon: / winninginthewind
In this video, I show my exact brass prep process before the first firing.
Reloading can be dangerous. Use proper, safe techniques and slow, deliberate load workups to ensure safe maximum charges are not exceeded.
Videos on this channel are for informative, and entertainment purposes only. Using any of the information is at the risk of the individual using the information. We (including TH-cam) will not be held liable for any injury or damage resulting from attempting anything shown or discussed in any of our videos. By viewing or flagging this video you are acknowledging the above.
My brass prep for Lapua brass is inspect, run a mandrel, chamfer/deburr the necks and load it.
I'm just a weekend shooter and I reload all my ammo, I spend more time on brass prep than anything else. I make my own 6.5 Creedmoor from Federal commercial 308 brass, it's the heaviest and thickest out there even more than military. I form it, trim it, turn the necks to .015", deburr the flash holes, swage the primer pockets and because of pushing the shoulder back so far I anneal it. I shoot a basically stock Savage 12FV with a 26" heavy barrel and a Vortex 6x24x50 Tactical scope on it. I load 120gr OTM bullets for everything out to 350 yards and 140's out to 600. Right now that rifle, Tupperware stock and all will hold .3moa at 100 yards with my current loadings. I have less than $700 in that rig and I credit it's performance to my brass prep and proper maintenance. The bullets are cheap Privi Partisan OTM's ($.30 ea.) and I use IMR4350 powder. I load on a RCBS RCll with Hornady dies, nothing exotic, but even factory brass gets the full treatment.
Any reason why you load two different weight projectiles?
Why not just stick with 140 grainers
This is brave, sharing your "secrets" like that. Sail GP has taken this approach from the beginning: all metrics are recorded and then the teams go over the metrics together, so the boats are all performing their best, and races are very tight. A win is down to sailing alone, and a loss is down to mistakes. I'd love to see all F-class shooters commit to this direction with you, where a win is down to reading wind and weather, and a loss has only the shooter to blame.
I think he achieved a lot in the sport and he does not need to prove anything anymore. That's why he enjoys sharing his knowledge. Other than that I think a true master is so confident in his skills that he does not care about the knowledge he keeps.
@@MasonStormSunny " a true master is so confident in his skills that he does not care about the knowledge he keeps." - it's golden!
Here's my thing about brass prep. I don't believe there is an incorrect method to working on your brass so long as it is consistent and gives you the confidence in your brass to shoot it at the target and believe that the brass isn't the problem when you get weird results, i.e. odd flyers. Can you overwork it, probably. Are there steps you don't need to do, most likely. I may prep my brass or mix different firings together. I've had other guys tell me I'm crazy, but then I show up and shoot better groups than they do with a 6mm in wind while they're shooting 284s. I've done this with 284, 6.5, 6, etc. There are three big things that affect velocity and flight ballistics. Ignition, Neck Tension, and bullet bearing length. There are secondary factors like concentricity of the neck, shoulder bump consistency (which affects case volume and thus Boyle's Law of heated gas expansion as well the amount of oxygen created by the double base smokeless powder and the rate of expansion as brass differences can affect the energy loss due to brass needing to be pushed out by said gases), bullet weight inconsistency, primer compound differences/variations which can be removed by sorting primers by weight, seating depth of bullet and primer, and of course powder weight inconsistency. I'm sure there are others like amount of remnant copper fouling, last bare metal cleaning, throat erosion, trigger sear problems, weak firing pin, etc. Some of those fall within the Ignition timing and bullet bearing length categories though.
I am not the only shooter who believes this. I've talked to several other record holders who taught me this. I offer nothing novel here.
Keith, as usual sir you are a wealth of knowledge. I admire your habits and I learn something new EVERY TIME I tune into your channel. I struggle with severe nerve damage and joint damage in my hands so holding onto 200 cases during trimming, primer pocket uniforming (I also use a single piece uniformer), and neck turning. I've been looking for some time a method to hold onto the brass better. I will be buying several of those LE Wilson shell holders and I am definitely gonna try the neck turning method you use as I too have seen inconsistencies using tools which are cold vs warm.
Thanks for a great video. There is so much “junk” out there it’s it is hard to know what is actually works . Your approach is so common sense and “basic “ ! This is such good information, thanks for this video it was very helpful to know what I’m doing is sufficient,without getting lost in the weeds of things that does not make any real difference.👍😎
Great video... no secrets that i haven't been doing for a long time. It is like a foundation to a house. The better it is the more "sound" the structure is built upon it.
I truly appreciate and share your sentiment on the topic of sharing knowledge and experience as a novice NRA F Open Class shooter. Thank you
I did a Russian to 6PPC for 24 years back in the 80s. We only had Sako brass.
Thank you for the tips and advice in your video. Wishing you all 10 rings.
I needed this video. I appreciate you taking the time to share this knowledge
Really appreciate you doing this ; you are a "walking talking encyclopedia "......
I always qualify the I/D, fire form, then brushing size the O/D to clean up the I/D with a reamer, then turn on a tight mandrel and final bushing size for 0.003" press fit. After firing, I trim if necessary and remove the donut with the reamer. This delivers uniform neck tension every time.
Thanks for your knowledge would have loved learned it 45 yrs ago
Honestly, I'm pretty surprised by how much work you do with brand new, factory Lapua brass. I thought the biggest reason for using Lapua brass in the first place was that it's good to go?
I sure appreciate your efforts. Thank you ☺️
Thank you for sharing to grow the sport!
For new cases this is my exact process i use myself. flash holes and neck turning
flas holes and neck turning are only done once.
Here is the plain simple deal,
It all begins in the brass.
The more uniform your brass is, the more uniform your pressure curve will be & thus the more uniform your velocities will be.
THUS the more uniform you will print down range.
The ultimate goal is predictably tight groups.
Makes it a lot easier to set your scope up.
Onto primers, powder & bullets …
Yes, especially Lapua .284 brass at almost $2 a pop! Nice presentation!
TKS for sharing, i app that!
Hi, thank you for this movie. It is very useful, greetings from Poland.
Thanks Kieth for sharing. Good luck at nationals!
Keith, I doall that except Neck turning.Ive never had a donut .Yes we all need to teach the next bunch of new shooters.If we are that worried about them beating us with our own methods..Chance is they would beat us anyway.Maybe not as soon..But they would later.Great Video.
I always sort mine into 2 or 3 groups based on weight. Then check the extremes to see if there is any difference in case capacity, length, etc. I keep them segregated in those groups so I can weigh loaded rounds and check for errors more confidently.
I'm similar. Alot of my steps are probably unnecessary but help me sleep at night kinda thing.
Thank you for sharing! A lot of good information and things that I will likely try.
If you're reaming the flash hole with the primer pocket, might as well chamfer the flash holes evenly from the inside. Some goofball is grifting a primer seater using the extractor lip as a datum. SAAMI says otherwise, with 8 to 12 thou variance.
Man I was thinking that you really pull the plug from channel,am glad is not the case! I really learned a lot and fixed a lot of wrong doing in my reloading ( I really do believe is science) and open mind who want to learn when making good accurate ammo!
Great information.
Thank You Very Much for Sharing.
Thank you for the information!
Thank you for sharing!
Just a question regarding primer pocket uniforming. Have you measured the pockets on newer lots of lapua brass before uniforming them? I've found that there's no real need to uniform them as the ~500 that've I've measured in the last few years have not varied by more than ~0.001" and given that primers themselves vary more than that in overall thickness I'm not sure how much value there can be in uniforming the pockets. I suppose that it could simply be a "just in case" measure which is fine.
Thanks, some good information...........................
Nice video, not shooting to your level so I will anneal and maybe use a mandrel to expand my necks… most my bottle necks are closing in on 1/2moa sometimes less. Happy enough but value the insight of others doing more. I have done more and done better but Lapua Brass seems to be as good or better than me… That said did just order some Winchester brass for 243 hunting ammo I am sure I will break out some of those tools again!
Thanks
Hi Keith. Thank you for sharing your methods. Can I ask you a huge favour? I don't understand how you prepare the inside of the neck before you seat a bullet. Would you kindly demonstrate what you do? I have tried graphite but it is inconsistent and increases ES.
Reloading is so confusing at times.....
Everyone learns that must be a good thing.
Just curious, you neck turn the new brass after you expand it with a mandrel. So is your mandrel slightly over sized from you neck caliber? Giving your neck the similarity of a fired brass?? I ask because if I use a new brass un-fired and run the normal size mandrel to expand it. It does not expand it. I barely feel it make contact or touch the neck walls at all. Unless of course I size it with a collet die and later expand it back with the mandrel.
I see where you swap your barrel without removing your scope and the action still in the stock. How tight do you torque your barrels?
Hey Keith, can you tell me , which size flash hole uniformer do you use . 0.059'' or 0.062''
I shoot service rifle matches and my brass prep is the same as yours except I don't turn my necks. Maybe I should, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it.
Referring to previous vid, does age restriction de-monetize you now? I love your channel but hadn't done Patreon before but just did to show/give support to what I think is about the best content I've seen. I truly want you to 'Keep up the good Work!'
If I may ask a question. What neck thickness do you trim too? What variation in neck wall thickness do you see, and range do you find acceptable?
Thickness is determined bv the chamber neck diameter. I turn to gain a .004" clearance. My turning shows a neck wall variation of .0003" maximum. Typically, I can hold .0002" for almost all cases, but one always slips though to increase it another 1/10,000". I haven't found that neck wall thickness is as sensitive as some may believe. I shoot several no-turn chambers in other cartridges that don't seem to care if I turn necks of not.
Do you clean used brass or clean primer pockets ?
For standard chambers that do not require neck turn before first firing, do you recommend turning before fireforming, after fireforming or not at all? I use a mandrel for final neck sizing, so not sure turning will have much benefit. As a 223 FTR shooter I need every hint I can get... thanks for the top-secret dope!!
I have cancelled sub. We here in Aust are not that keen on handing over identifying info to youtube(who knows where it ends up) to watch something as plain as brass prep. TH-cam can take a running jump
Keith, when fireforming virgin brass is it necessary to seat the bullet into the lands to prevent the case from overstretching?
I think it would benefit your viewers to include what extra steps you would do for non premium brass. LC brass for example. Lapua has done a lot of the extra steps such as case mouth chamfer.
His trimmer has a 3 in 1 cutter on it, trims and chamfers inside & out.
I'm just an amateurs target shooter. Recently purchased a box of 308 palma match lapua brass. I ain't doing anything to it. My rifle barrel and action. Trigger. Rest and me won't get any benefit from doing any fancy brass prep. Plus it's more tools I'll need to spend money on that could have gone into bullets and powder.
I’m surprised you uniform primer pocket. I just watched your video where you stated exact primer depth seating didn’t make a difference. Is this a hold over habit or what am I missing?
Are you fire forming to 284 shehane or what chamber? Do you use starting loads, warm or hot loads for this step? Can you take anything away from the shooting you do during fire forming?
Hi, thanks, what is your opinion on chamfering the inside of the pilot hole?
Thanks for the great vids. Keep them coming. One question that's got me stumped. I have both the 284 winchester and the 6.5x284 norma rifles. Lapua brass is available in both calibers. Why do some form 284 winchester from 6.5x284 brass? Could it be for neck wall thickness? Thanks
That’s purely out of necessity. Lapua didn’t used to make 284 brass, but they made 6.5 brass, hence a lot of people preferring to neck up the better quality Lapua brass
What brand and where to buy drill-press shell holder and neck turner?
I usually start with a light chamfer inside and out, even if case mouths aren’t perfectly round, then expand seeing that there is sometimes a flare or lip on the case mouth, not wanting to transfer that through when using the expander What is your opinion?
I wouldn't chamfer out of round necks. The tools are designed to work on perfectly round necks. I just run the expander through them if I get them out of round. It seems to work well for me.
@@winninginthewind OK thank you
Lately ive been seeing people claiming primer pocket uniformity ruins the brass and "crush" the firing pin puts on the primer for consistent ignition. Primarily in Erik C video with Primal Rights primer seater. Whats your opinion on said matter?
Interesting.
Something has made Erik observe that. He wouldn’t say it otherwise.
But I sure would be skeptical of the tool he is using.
I have uniformed my pockets for 36 years & I have never witnessed such a thing. Clearly Erik has.
(I’m sorry, I have no idea what tools I’m using. My Dad gave them to me years ago. I think it’s a Lyman.)
Thanks for sharing, one quick question, I presume you have expanded the brass to the mandrel size (neck tension) you need and hence don't need to size back down again.
First step 1:40
Does your brass length trimmer go off the shoulder? If so, is the case base to shoulder dimension that consistent on new Lapua brass?
Yes, off the shoulder. I didn't even bother measuring the other way as it doesn't have any usefulness for neck turning.
I don’t get the Sinclair flash hole tool. I already use a Sinclair flash hole deburring tool on the _inside_ of the case, the first time only with new brass. How is this different?
You can ream from either end, but getting consistent hole diameters seems to make a very small improvement in performance.
@@winninginthewindThanks very much for clarifying. Learn something new every day, I hadn’t seen that particular tool before. I do already uniform the primer pockets with that excellent Sinclair carbide tool. Just getting into reloading for precision rifle so appreciate your knowledge. 👍
You expand with a 283. What size mandrel do you use in your neck cutter.
282
Goodie 🤩👍
Thanks for sharing ... is their a benefit to turning virgin brass vs once fired ?
A lot of F class shooters’ chambers have tight necks where an unturned neck, will not fit in the chamber. I suspect that’s the case for Keith.
Correct, out of the box brass won't chamber for this barrel.
Even if your brass chambers, you should turn the neck before shooting it the first time. The more uneven it is, the more unevenly it will stretch: think of a balloon, where the thinnest part stretches first before the thick part, so the thick part stays thick while the thin part gets even thinner. Ensuring your brass is uniform thickness will ensure that it stretches (and sizes) uniformly and will greatly extend the life of your brass.
Good job Keith. but here’s a question will you share your reamer print?
with TH-cam? Nope!
@@winninginthewind want my email address?
Explain this to me. How do I recoup R&D cost that way?
@@winninginthewind easy there grasshopper! Lol.
You said you were gonna tell everything. I shoot a .284 in steel target competitions. And I’m fixing to buy a lathe and start building my own guns so I thought I’d ask. Doesn’t hurt to ask does it?
I don't understand how you referenced the shoulder datum.
The Giraud indexes off of the shoulder.
@@winninginthewind Thank you !
👌☝
Hey Keith, I’ve heard from a few F class channels, Cortina’s for example, that he doesn’t touch the primer pockets because it’s easy to mess up and isn’t worth the risk with the minimal gains it may or may not bring. With that said, how do you seat your primers? And would you seat them in a different manner if you used virgin uncut pockets?
I find this funny because he has that expensive primal rights priming tool, but doesn't true up the pockets. So how do you get an accurate seating depth then?
@@buick4622 His argument is that there's no good datum to reference off of without some very dedicated equipment: equipment the case manufacturers have that few to no reloaders have. In theory a good quality manufacturer with the tools they have should get tighter tolerances than we'll ever get with some hand held jobber, emphasis on good quality manufacturers.
For this point especially, I'm in the "do it if you think it helps, don't if you don't" camp!
@@wilfdarr accuracy one makes a primer pocket depth gauge. It's not expensive. Cortina also said uniforming ruins brass. It doesn't ruin brass. If it did NOBODY would do it.
@@buick4622 Yes they do, but just like every other home remedy, it references off the base of the case rather than the rim, which isn't the best way to do it. If you've got expensive brass, you're not going to improve it's consistency with hand held tools! All you're looking to do when reloading is customize it to your rifle, and the less you have to do to accommodate your rifle, the better off you'll be.
I do nothing to new Lapua brass other than prime it.
Wow, way to ruin perfectly fine Lapua brass. 😳
Oh wow TH-cam giving me a warning that this video is for adults....
I don’t know where your located but I live in the USA and it didn’t give me a warning so maybe out of the country only?
You can desecelect the warnings, it's takes the controls off your computer for things like porn warnings as well..
@@edwardabrams4972 Germany.