Interesting Timing On Epiphone Inspired By Gibson Guitars
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 เม.ย. 2024
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My hot take on this is that Gibson has 2 choices, either produce Gibson branded guitars at much lower prices, or do this line of relatively (for Epiphone) premium "Inspired By" models. I personally think they decided to go this route because they don't want to do anything that might even slightly devalue the Gibson name. They have a whole fan base that they have successfully conditioned to believe a Les Paul should cost $3k+. They risk undoing that if they start selling guitars with (again, relatively) premium Gibson features at sub-$2k price points. So instead they raise the prices on Epis, add some cosmetic and hardware upgrades like the headstock and pickups, and see what happens. It's pretty low risk considering they still make a slew of budget and sub-$1k models. I feel like that's the part that people keep skipping over when they talk about these new Epiphone prices, that they are still primarily selling lower priced guitars. Walk into Guitar Center, most of the Epis are in the $300-900 range.
But ultimately I think they raised Epiphone prices because it's not going to hurt that brand. And it's kind of funny that people are up in arms about these prices when you consider that if they took these exact same Epiphones at the exact same price points and just put Gibson on the headstock, no one would bat an eye.
It's not that the fan base is "conditioned" any more than you are conditioned to paying $12 for a lb of bacon today that was $1.75 in 1980. $350 in '71 is $2800 today so actually the price hasn't changed since you can get an SG Special plek'd from factory, ($300 value that alone) P90s, finest woods with hard shell case for $1600 built in Nashville. I got my $2400 mint Iommi SG used for $1600..Only cheapskates and ignorant would pay more than $200 for an Epi. Specifically the SG Special @ $179 from AMS with killswitch tone pot. Rosewood board, not laurel THIS is where Epi is best, not faking out SUCKERS for $1300?? LOL But you are right in that Gibson noticed the margins by adding foo foo cheaply but keeping cheap laurel etc. and are riding this baloney pony until players realize $300 more gets you a Bugatti not a Yin Yang Chinese made thing. Probably 95.5% players don't gig and the ones that do wouldn't be caught dead playing a $1300 Epi on stage - it would be like look at my fake Rolex. Plus as I said real players know you can get a real USA made guitar all day long for that cheddar even if used. 👀
I think there's a lot of truth in this - Gibson as a brand has to satisfy a certain 'entry level to the club' point, that and the whole 'gotta be a Made in The USA' guitar thing that gets so many people riled up. The times have been changing for some time and for me at least, being able to try out any number of Gibson, Epiphone, Fender, Gretsch, PRS etc. instruments at leisure in the 2 main flagships where I live - I am pretty well 'location agnostic' these days. I have my Gibson '68 LP Custom & my '92 Sadowsky NYC HSS so I'm fine with 2 excellent American made guitars, and a few terrific Japanese & Korean ones I have picked up along the way - but recently I have been really impressed with a couple of Epiphones (the '59' & Cantrell 'Wino') which I bought specifically to mod a bit - mainly pick-ups and wiring - because the actual instruments are sound and I want to play round a bit with some 'boutique' pick-ups that interest me. So . . . luxury items in that sense for sure, but also, for me, eminently practical to have 2 or 3 different 'personalities' at hand in the studio.
That said, I would not be surprised if in the next few years the 'inspired by Gibson' Epiphones do switch to putting Gibson on the headstock with some sort of 'SE' or 'Import' sub-branding and then, if they really want to get creative, they could take a good look at the heritage Epiphones like Casino, Sheraton, Riviera, Broadway and what have you and seriously upgrade quality on these, separating them from the Gibson clones. Maybe they'll never get to the level of the originals from the '50s & '60s but if an 'Epiphone Heritage' line suddenly appeared out of Japan or Korea they could attract a discerning clientele with $$ to spend. Gibson do have a US made Casino which I haven't tried but most reviewers I have seen don't seem to think it's a quantum leap in quality from the recent Chinese ones . . . whatever, fun to watch all this unfolding 🧐
@@cuda426hemiyeah I agree, the comment around this that always keeps coming up is "you can buy a used Gibson for the price of a new Epiphone, or build one yourself cheaper" and I agree. Guitar players will always go after Gibson not epiphones. Epiphone was doing great when they had a good price tag along with it, like the classic vibes. In my country the classic vibe squires costs the same as the fender player series. I don't see the point, no one will be buying these at all.
@@brianeno608 warm jets, baby 👍🏻
@@tonedowne Tribute was weird anyway, maple necks on SGs? Whatever. Bottom line is margins, but to me it's no brainer you pay $300 more for a Gibson over $1300 Epis, period, full stop. Or go used Gibby. The mkt will dictate this new Epi strategy. But of COURSE USA made stuff will be more expensive what with wages and greed China doesn't have to deal with. Be thankful we have US made guitars, nothing else in your house is. 🤡
I don't know I don't think it's a bad deal. I mean you're getting a $500 pair of Gibson pickups, a real ebony fretboard, a nice paint job and a hard shell case. Plus the Gibson headstock For 1299 I don't think that's bad
Yeah great deal. Plus a long neck tendon, real mother of pearl. It is a great value.
And eventually they will hit the used market under $1000. (I’d check the humbuckers before buying though 😂😂)
Exactly what Gibson PR department want you to think :) Actually I think they're nice guitars for Gibson chinese copies, but not sure they'll be anyones forever instrument...
It probably costs them under a 100 to make those “$500” pups.
@@martianmurrayIt costs under $50 to make those pickups. And that’s true for all pickups, especially when produced at scale. But you don’t pay for raw materials, alone. This is true everywhere and always. Look around you instead of being a cynical d*ckhead all the time 😂
Howlin Wolf, Hubert Sumlin, T-Bone Walker, Sonhouse, The Beatles, and many more all used Epiphones. Yet companies like Gibson and Martin tell us we need their products if you want that old school sound. Or that classic tone. Its all classic BS. Its not the guitar or even the quality of the guitar. It's the player who makes it work.
Exactly, I’ve been telling people and other players that tone mostly comes from your fingers!
Most people listening as we play don’t give a damn who made the guitar, some random guitarist in the crowd may care, but the majority don’t
Those Epiphone guitars back then weren’t made in China and were quality guitars. Completely different.
@@johngrasso1483open wide here comes your foot the epiphone Quindoa facility is completely American owned and operated with American and Asian luthiers only Epiphones are made there so get your story straight before you post
No doubt the overwhelming vast majority of guitars throughout popular music history in the 20th and 21st centuries have been those American brands. Of course the players play them, but you mentioned old school and classic and that what they are saying is a load of crap, when in reality those makers are right when they say that. Most musicians used them and it isn’t even close.
There is sooo much used gear. I have money for new but find it hard to pass up the used DEALS for new
Totally
Especially when you get used gear in great shape at a killer price. Even if it's not in great shape, if you're handy with tools it's always fun to have a new project :D
@@JuanJaim so true Juan!
Other companies are making great affordable guitars with features like SS frets for under 1k. And Gibson changes headstock shape.
While I do like SS frets they will still wear out just slightly slower for touring guitarist with a hard grip, for me it doesn’t really matter since I don’t push hard enough to feel the fretboard.
Also, I had to polish and round the fret ends on such affordable guitars.
Next comes electronics and hardware quality, which still is a hit and miss under 1k.
There are of course some exeptions in between, even between same make and model, but from 1k and up that seems more consistant.
There is more to it than a change of headstock, plus that they should be smart enough to still offer cheaper models unless they have given up to compete with the other brands at that end of the market.
Some of the cheap Epiphones are not worse than some of them great affordable guitars either, can’t say how consistant it is, but my EP Special II AFR plays as well as my Squires, HB’s and Jet, had to fix at least one thing on all of them apart from one of the Squire’s that comes with a FR even.
To be fair, even the expensieve guitars can be a crapshot unless one is so fortunate to have a physicsl store they can visit to try and buy it.
so don't buy it
@@nick_ashleyafter the €600 price hike this generation, I definitely won’t
The guitars come with custom buckers. $500 pick ups. Quality electronics. Better bridge and tail piece. Long neck tendon, real mother of pearl and ebony. Alot more bang for your buck. It's not just the headstock. They don't even put custom buckers on a standard Gibson. Same pick ups in my custom shop.
@@kenfernsler6507 Pickups, electronics and bridge (if even necessary) are all pretty easily upgradable after the fact. So the what that does is make the guitar less affordable.
So while everything is getting more and more expensive putting a less affordable guitar on the market as a value brand seems pretty dumb to me.
And the long neck tendon is like the stupidest thing to advertise with because all it says to me is that either they usually make the guitars wrong (but this time we did it right, it only took us 50 years), or it doesn’t matter both are good (but why advertise it then, if it’s inconsequential)
I went and played two in a shop near me, they definitely have a few QC issues (slight tool marks on the fretboard binding from files, frets weren't super well polished) but they played great and they sounded amazing. As far as small tool marks from fret end files, you can fix that yourself pretty easily, but what you're not gonna get is another guitar with custombuckers for any less than 4k even used. The sound for me would be the main thing, but in general they're really nice to play and they look a lot better than the last iteration from epiphone with that horrible thick orange burst. I'm going to definitely buy one when I have the money for it, either new or used. And I would recommend everyone at least go try one before you judge it, nowadays the forums explode with hate at every new guitar before anyone has even picked one up.
This was the comment I was looking for, thanks for the inside man!
I like the headstock change..Last year I got a 61 SG reissue with the custom shop pickups and wiring.. $899?.. It plays and sounds great.. Fit and finish were also very good.
Love that SGrowl!!! Just got my daughter an Epi SG & she is in love with it !! 😎 👍
Honestly Im saving for a p90 revstar, epis were a good choice when they were 500$. Gibson has gone bananas.
All have gone bananas on price. It seems they squeezed us for all they can get and then back down the prices from there.
Hey Phil, thanks for all you do. I love my two PRS SE guitars I have, they are great guitars. My one issue I have is when doing a search for a PRS, when going on a site to look for a used guitar you can look SE model, S2 model and CE and the search will pull up those guitars, however try to do a search for the core model and you have to type in PRS and they all show up. Basically what I try to do is look for the cheapest core model I can find in Very good or excellent, but all the models get jumbled up and it makes it tougher to find just a core mode. I have one CE and love it, I have the two SE and love those, I was thinking of just bitting the bullet and getting a core model , but did not want to pay the $4000 or $5000 price tag. By the way I didn't notice your links to the guitars that were being sold, didn't notice it till after I fully watched the last episode. I won't post any more links to sales. I don't want to interfere with your revenue. Thanks again for everything you do on your show, you shows are one of the ones I usually watch from beginning to end.
Not gonna lie... I want the epiphone les paul custom in ebony. Adding the Gibson shaped headstock is more enticing. I've never liked the epiphone headstock.
I partially both agree and disagree with you Phil on the "entertainment is luxury" thing and your statement that, "if the times get tough, people will no longer be interested in entertainment".
As someone who grew up during the war in Bosnia, I can tell you that entertainment was even more important than before the war. Entertainment is definitely one of the basic human necessities, right after food and shelter.
That being said, what people are definitely not interested in doing during hard times (whether that be economic hardships, war or what have you) is SPENDING MONEY on entertainment, and that is why I partially agree with you. Entertainment does not die during hard times, in fact you might argue that it even helps it grow and evolve, but doing business with entertainment or making a living off of entertainment would absolutely be impossible. We had concerts, plays, musicals, even fashion shows during the war, in basements and bomb shelters, and those events were always packed full with people, but the entry was free, there was no money to be made, because nobody had any, and even if they did, they would rather spend that on food and clothes.
So yes, geeking out about pedals and guitars is a luxury activity, but music, art and entertainment in general is not.
I want a Custom Shop ESP with the Epi maxipad headstock that says Chibson on it
I actually want the Epiphone headstock to say Gibson
"Epiphone by Gibson"
It’s not that hard to do.
Not me buddy I want mine to say Epiphone and with the proper Kalamazoo headstock
Then stop being either a tightwad or poor and buy a Gibson.
You can get that if you buy a chibson
I think the 2020 version of the 59 Les Paul ( especially in Southern Fade) and the Fender Player series guitars are excellent value .
I have Three high end 2021 epiphones with their Kalamazoo headstocks I wouldn't want it any other way
Yours would sell a lot faster than the ones with the Gibson headstock on them especially epiphone collectors won't touch the Gibson headstock epiphones it's not a epiphone headstock
I'm kind of on the fence here. I own 3 Gibson's and to tell the truth until I bought the first one, I really didn't see why they were so much more money in comparing the to an American Strat and a Mexican Strat. But when I opened the case and there's a card with the string height on it, and I checked it and they are all correct, and it was nearly in tune, just a few steps on the D and the G, then checking it at the 12th fret. There's a checklist and I looked at everything and then looked at the checklist, and to play it, that sold me. You could tell that so many people worked on this guitar to make it perfect when I opened the case. There was a small run in the paint on the binding where the neck and body meet, but the fretboard was silky smooth and had been conditioned. there were no marks and no high frets. Even the pickup selector switch felt better. Doing all that requires a lot of labor.
I bought an Epiphone Alex Lifeson for $1299.00, It came in good shape, and there were a few flaws, the 10th and 14th fret were both high, but I tapped them down. There was a bit of paint run. But the fretboard, it is ebony had very fine marks in it, like it didn't get the final sanding. Also, the nut was not cut right. Everything else on the guitar was perfect, I tuned it up and adjusted the action, no big deal. Not enough to send it back, but for $1300.00 goofs like this are a problem. If I had bought a $699.00 guitar, these would not be a concern, but at this price I really hope it was just bad luck. My Alex Lifeson is a great guitar and Epiphone did a great job putting it together, there have been no problems at all and I have no regrets buying it.
I'm waiting until the honeymoon is over, I would really like to pick up the 355 or the 63 reissue, but I'll be patient.
I have gone through several Gibsons in my time. Unlike some other folks’ experiences I never truly had a "bad" one. I’ve had a couple with less than great finishing and some crude tooling marks, but nothing that made them unplayable. However, for what they cost you do expect better and it’s a lot of money tied up in an instrument. That’s why I think these things will sell pretty well like Phil noted. There is less perceived risk on the front end if you do get a "bad" one. And most people won’t think about resale value at time of purchase, however imprudent that may be. Interestingly, it could also have the opposite effect on some people that don’t care about bling and are put off by the higher prices for Epiphones . It could be a way to push some on-the-fence buyers to just pony up for the Gibson now that the differences in prices for the two brands are in the hundreds and not thousands of dollars. I’m sure for a lot of people they look at both brands and say that for the $400 difference might as well just get the Gibson. Still think PRS SE and Fender Mexico/Squier have them beat because they have more extensive lines at lower prices and arguably equal if not better QC. I actually like the Epiphone headstock design but the Gibson headstock shape should be on all Epiphones that were originally Gibson models, like the Les Paul and SG, regardless of price just like PRS SE and Squier do. The only exception should be if the models were originally Epiphones like the Casino, Wilshire, Coronet, etc. that would be more authentic.
As long as the headstock explodes when I look at it, I will know it's authentic.
That's how I rationalized my purchase of the Epiphone. I was thinking of buying a used Gibson, and for less I was able to get a nice Epiphone with the Custombuckers. I wasn't thinking this is an expensive Epiphone. I was thinking this gets me the Gibson tone and feel for less than a Gibson. Plus, I wanted a working axe that I could take to practice, bars and open mics and not worry about it. The Epi fit the bill. I also think this Epi will hold it's value, but if it doesn't, still not a big loss, assuming I even try to sell it.
The '59 Epiphone Les Paul, depending on where you live because of exchange & regional pricing, increased in price by 36 to 57% from what I've seen and really the headstock changed & custombuckers instead of burstbuckers. They will sell no doubt about it but if that's worth it I guess is an individual choice. The 355 is the same apparently. Gibson prices have gone way up too so I guess if you want it you're paying whichever you choose. No wonder there seems to be so much emphasis on a monthly payment rather than the outright price at so many retailers.
Here in Aus you can get the new PRS SE CE 24 Standard Satin for $999, or an Epiphone inspired by Gibson custom shop 1959 Les Paul for $2600, the same price as a brand new Gibson Les Paul Studio. I’d say if you’re a working musician the PRS is a no brainer, if you’re worried about resale value then Gibson has proven consistently to hold value, so where does this new Epiphone sit?
One argument I hate hearing is that “people have been asking for an affordable way to get the Gibson headstock on an Epiphone guitar and here it is but they still complain!”
The problem is it’s not an affordable way to get the Gibson headstock, it’s just as expensive as a Gibson!
As expensieve as the cheapest Gibson when it come to the more custom shop signature models, cheapest model is still 1/10 of the price.
Compare a greenie to a greenie instead of comparing the price of a premium with a junior.
@@JoeBaermann of course, and in that sense it does make sense, comparing one model directly to its equivalent, I think outside of signature models though that comparison isn’t entirely relevant. I would think most people would rather a Gibson USA LP Studio than an Epiphone “inspired by custom shop” LP.
@@danieljdtaylor One would assume so, but there are quite a few who would want something like the Epiphone Greenie.
If they where smart they would do as with the Slash models or even better, like Ibanez does it with most of their signature models.
Personally I have no idea about the Epiphone Custom Shop quality, but if they are close enough I can understand someone wanting that over a Studio.
Many Epiphones have resale value I have one an 2019 epiphone exclusive deluxe limited run Sg Pro honey burst color I found mine on Reverb in 2022 paid $650.00 for it they are a collectors epiphone guitar and the honey burst color is hard to find I've seen this model sell as high as $700.00 and low as $500.00 this model was crafted the same exact same way using the same exact same techniques as the Kalamazoo 1961 Gibson Sgs ...you know you people just continue to lie and it's so easy to catch you in your lies it's called a computer and research
@@Myfingersstinklikefish Correct, even smaller brands can have a good resell value on certain models, even cheap ones.
Getting an Aria LP alike tribute model this time though, since Epiphone doesn’t build a lightweight cherry sunburst with 3 Super Distortion look alike signature model. 😆
Still better than going for a Chibson, which most likely also would be held back by import customs anyway.
I'm surprised that no one is talking about the fact that the Gibson Les Paul Tribute and Special Tribute are recently discontinued. The Gibson Les Paul Modern Lites are about $300 more than the Tribute used to be, and (in my opinion) has less classic Gibson features, including less wood with their thinner bodies and the dot inlays. The Epi announcement being at the same time as Gibson removing those models really seems like a transparent move by Gibson to completely remove themselves from offering anything less than $1500, and introduce a more expensive Epiphone line to fill the void. So not only are Gibson refusing to introduce models for a lower price/"stain" their reputation, but they seem to be actively be pushing their name higher on the luxury ladder.
Market has changed. We now have a beginner tier. Firefly, Harley-Benton, Squire Debut etc. has the super obtainable under $400 guitars . Middle priced has moved up with the premium line. But no complaints. We’re very much in the golden era of guitar and gear.
I broke down and bought the new Epiphone '59 Les Paul for $1299. I gotta admit, it feels, plays and sounds miles ahead of most older Epiphones. The factory-installed Custombuckers are epic pickups. I also own a 2019 Gibson Les Paul Traditional, and this Epiphone just smokes it.
Gibson are not worth their prices Epiphones are worth every cent and more
Totally agree. Love my Epi LP Standard.
I can't agree. I've owned probably 10 or more Epiphone Les Pauls in about every incarnation they have. 59s Customs Prophecys. And I've owned 7 Gibsons including the two 60 standards, one original and the other i use to try different pick-up combos, blood moon, and studio that i still have. Every one of the Epiphones were a great guitar in their own right but there's a reason I only have one now and 4 Gibsons and not 1 Gibson and 4 Epiphones. Are Gibsons over priced. Yes. But can I buy a brand new Epiphone and in a year or 6yrs or 16yrs take that same guitar and get what I paid for it? No but I can my Gibsons. That alone says all their needs to be said. Epis are great and i love them. But you're comparing Corvettes and Chevettes. Just my 2 cents.
@@user-bc4gc5gi4c hmm that funny I have a 2019 epiphone exclusive deluxe limited run Sg Pro that's now a collectors epiphone Sg that I paid $650.00 in 2022...and has risen in value so where did you come up with such BS
@@user-bc4gc5gi4c better research epiphone history before you open your mouth and stick your foot in it.. Gibson is most definitely not a Corvette compared to epiphone
They recently got Edwards (ESP) to stop putting the open book headstock on the Lacquer Taste Series. This series reminds me of those Edwards guitars.
I bought an Epiphone LP Jr at a pawn shop the other day and it has a Gibson headstock.?
I agree with this take that its finally giving people that wanted the $5000+ guitar an actual "affordable" version that isn't a stripped down or lesser version.
I have 4 Les Paul Customs, two Gibsons, an Orville, and an Epiphone from 2022 with the kalamazoo headstock. I've also owned a few Epiphone Les Paul Customs from the previous runs with the old headstock design. The Epiphones are fantastic guitars, but they don't feel like the Gibsons and its not just the Gibson headstock. There's things about the specs that don't line up with the real deal like the neck's thin D shape which for me feels off and the Epiphone Probuckers which are good but don't sound like a set of 490R/498Ts. The Epis have always been stripped down lesser versions that just look like Les Paul Customs, but don't feel, sound, or play the same as a Gibson one.
The Inspired by Gibson guitars appear to have the same specs, minus the nitro, to the Gibsons, at least when it comes to the Customs and the Adam Jones 79 model, and come with nice hard shell cases. In theory, they should feel, play, and sound like the same guitar, just $4000 cheaper. This is what people have wanted, for their Epiphones to be identical to the Gibsons minus the name on the headstock while being 1/5 the price. And for those that don't care about specs and just want something that looks like a Les Paul, SG, 335, etc, the regular Epiphone line up is still there for even less.
I agree with you, though from playing the new Epis with the open book head they still feel like Epiphones. The necks are sometimes a bit fatter but still have that Epiphone feel. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just something that is noticeable.
@@mikew3938 I just received my Inspired by Gibson Epi Les Paul Custom today. The shape of the neck feels right when compared to my two GIbson Les Paul Customs, and same goes for the fret sizes. My 2022's thin D shape neck and slightly larger frets don't feel right, not bad cause its actually great for speed and metal playing, but not like the full GIbsons.
The feel of the Inspired by GIbson is like 90 percent there. The issue is poly vs nitro. It's a very noticeable difference. For people that don't know what nitro feels like or don't like nitro, this is a non-issue.
Playability and sound though are spot on in my opinion.
The Epiphone Probuckers in my 2022 just don't sound or play like the 490R/498T set.
I think GIbson and Epiphone nailed it with this guitar when it comes to creating an "affordable" alternative that isn't stripped down.
@@anandgarde13 That's great to hear, I've actually had my eye on the new Epi LP Custom in white. My experience with the new Gibsonized Epiphones is playing the Gibson Greeny Standard and the Epi Greeny. The neck shapes on those two guitars in particular were very different. Both fat, but the Epi felt more like a C where the Gibson had a very D shaped neck (very similar to the 50s Tribute Gibsons really). I guess they don't explicitly state in the specs the Epi and Gibson Greeny Standard have the same neck profile though. The shape of the Epiphone neck was still more Epiphone-ish than Gibson from the ones I've tried though.
Hopefully some more show up in my area soon.
Same happening with EBMM; a lot of Sterling models are now getting priced over $1000.
The new Gibson headstock on Epiphones also incluse the high angle?
No and it is a good thing
I was under the impression that most all of epiphone's guitars (Les paul, explorer, flying v, 335/dot) were inspired by gibson. I agree though I would like to see them match the headstock shape. Their les paul body shape could use a little bit more refining as well.
Exactly 💯%. They've been inspired by Gibson since the 1957, when Epiphone was bought by Gibson.
My reaction is sound related. Going back 15 years or so, and this is just my opinion, the Epiphone guitars just didn't ring. Sort of a wet-blanket effect plugged in or unplugged. I don't hear much talk of whether the new Epi guitars ring or not. I think the "open book" headstock is meaningless. Does it sound good? Will the other folks in the band say, "That thing sounds great!"... ? So there's a 59-named BS thing with a book headstock and a name attached to it. So what? Does it SOUND good? And yet the prices go up by way of the headstock shape.
no
My Greeny is the best Les Paul I have ever own
@@dkarhu 🤣 yeah right
@@dkarhu well I pay my bills, my house my car playing music with my IKEA guitar :) I gues it does the trick ;)
Imagine if everyone spent more time woodshedding their guitars skill than obsessing over a headstock shape, that’s like a race car driver worrying about what color pinstripes are on the side of the car…
Think of it this way, I paid 3200.00 for a bike, it’s worth it to me, though in 8 years it will have no resale value, but how many of us would think a 3200 Les Paul is worth it, if it had no resale value?
Gibson is thinking like a business, they have products that they market and those products need to fill slots in price points in which they want to compete. There are essentially three kinds of people buying guitars: those just starting out, those who've been playing for a while and want something "good" but not break the bank and professionals or advanced players who can actually use the higher end benefits of the high end equipment. Gibson sees the $200 Amazon guitars and seems to have made the decision they don't want to play there, so they go for the other two groups. Only risk is they might price themselves out of that second group too.
hi what did you mean about the s2 prs?
Well i'm guilty for paying the price for an Epi. I bought the inspired by Korina 1958 Explorer. I also own a Gibson Les Paul Standard and an Eastman SB55 their equivalent of a Junior and are fantastic guitars. Firstly, I would have liked a rosewood fingerboard but what the heck. I don't mind the laurel it feels and looks fine. I like the finish, feels nice to play. The quality is fantastic, no issues. I put in a set of custombuckers I was going to put in another guitar but ended up in the Explorer and it sounds even better than when it had the Burstbuckers in it. So, all in all I obviously have spent more money on the guitar by replacing the pups but as opposed to spending say £9000 - £10000 on a Gibson custom shop I don't have any problem with the price I have paid for what is a really nice guitar. Just my humble opinion of course. Have a great day all, cheers from over the pond UK. :)
From a playability and tone perspective, there is definitely a point of diminishing returns when it comes to the price of an electric guitar. Even with using top shelf high-end tuners, bridges, stop bars, nuts, pickups, pots, caps, switches, jacks, etc., it all ends adding up to $1000 - $1200. You can get any number of top shelf high-end neck and body combinations in nitro finishes for less than that. So, I have a hard time understanding these "custom lines" of name brand guitars going for mega thousands. Glitz, mother of pearl, abalone and bindings do not effect tone or playability.
Sure, someone can always argue that nothing beats a pair of $3000 Virgil Arlo pickups (if there even is a Virgil Arlo), or another "legend" like him. But I bet Seymour Duncan, Pilar Lopez, or Abigail Ybarra would disagree.
There is definitely a lot of blue sky in the pricing out there.
The Ɛpiphone script looks good across the head stock in pearl.
What a great video!!! I'm an Epiphone fan for a couple of reasons. First, that's what my dad had and the other is their rich history prior to being sold to Gibson. Due to their history, I think they should use their original headstock shape - plus I like it better than the Gibson.
Phil I think particularly Gibsons, when you buy a Chibson , you get the open book headstock , now with epiphone you get it and is a deciding factor in NOT purchasing the CHIBSON with crap pickups and questionable construction. I think this could slow down the demand for counterfeit Gibson.
I just bought the new Alpine White Les Paul Custom. The two things that some complained about… 1” at the 12th fret 50’s neck and polyester paint are things I like about it! 😎🤘
So much crying about the Epiphone headstock. I never figured out what the big deal was. I own 5 Epiphone guitars.
It looks like you chopped off its balls
It’s ugly
@@mikey-dubsugly as sin
I'd rather own 1 Gibson then 5 epiphones
Sell them all and buy the real
All these new Epiphone’s with the Gibson headstocks are $2,800 here in Australia which is just ridiculous for an Epiphone as much as I love the brand. I always liked the Epiphone headstock especially the Kalamazoo ones
Honestly I can see why Epiphone is up charging more these days, they’ve stepped up the quality and the specs of the guitars, the stock parts have been greatly improved and the customization of it being a metric built guitar give it even more flexibility and given it’s not the Gibson name, you can modify it all day without sacrilege, I personally don’t understand why modifying Gibson’s is an issue considering my one and only Gibson, an 87’ custom in tobacco burst, has Seymour Duncan pickups in it and Schaller M6 tuner along with a brass nut and a third pickup routed out. So yeah I’ve modified it. Anyways back to Epiphone, I also now own all three generations of “modern” Epiphone. Let’s say 1995 to present day. I have to say the upgrade in craftsmanship between each instrument is noticeable, they are all Les Paul Customs so it’s comparable. The way wood is glued together is a lot cleaner, the QC I found is better, everything screwed in and lined up a lot better, setting up and intonating is a lot easier as the truss rod doesn’t fights as much with each generation upgrade, the binding looks a lot nicer, the electronics are also much better stock than the Korean and Indonesian era, inlays are a lot nicer looking and more cleanly cut, a lot less tool marks on the guitars, I could go on and on. Point is I believe Epiphone is justified in their pricing mark ups these days, you really do get a great instrument for the money you’re spending within the price brackets of each model. The other way I see it is this, for $1299 I can get a Gibson Studio, Tribute and a few other lower end Gibson models or I can get an Epiphone Les Paul custom based on an actual Gibson down to the pickups and have more fun with it.
I've never bought an Epiphone until recently when I took the plunge on the Grohl 335. Since the Gibson model is unaffordable, and a Trini Lopez is expensive as well, I decided to go for the Epiphone. It's not here yet but my expectations are fairly high at the price.
I have nothing against Epiphone making exact copies of Gibson guitars, but some of them are getting close to the 2000$ mark, which is a totally absurd price.
For to pay such a price for an Epiphone, it would have to be really really special, like I don't know ... stainless steel jumbo frets, graphite rods reinforced neck, a PLEK fret job, comfort neck to body joint, great fast neck with modern slim taper profile, great locking tuners, compensated graphtech nut, fine tuning stop tailpiece, great pickups and reliable electronics (Bourns 82 series potentiometers, etc) and all the "beauty appointments": great multiply bindings on the top & back of the body, the neck and the headstock + pearl or abalone fretboard inlays, etc...
I mean, the whole shebang, like on some great fancy LTD 1000 Deluxe and some more.
Otherwise, these import Epiphone "Gibson copies" should only be at a maximum around 1000$ mark and not more.
Anyway, HAVE FUN & PLAY LOUD !
👍👍
I just watched Paul Smith being interviewed by a Stevensville MD 'beat reporter'. Outside the normal, he said they inspect and ship 100 guitars/day that are made in Stevensville, and, inspect and ship 250 guitars/day that were received from Indonesia for final inspection. Makes me wonder what Gibson/Epiphone and the Corona/MX numbers look like? JMHO --gary
I bet that these companies will "flatten" their product lines to save on manufacturing costs. With so many variables in play, such as global cost of materials, shipping, labour and training going up, it's likely cheaper to produce fewer components than to build and pay for supply chains, lease factory space etc for many varied components for various product lines. Especially when the low-end is probably a low-margin market and hyper-competitive now.
There will still be the divide between hand-made and pseudo-automated manufacturing processes, but there's probably quite a bit of room for various components to share processes and thus reduce costs. I'd wager that the difference in price to produce and ship the S2 pick-up was getting too close to the cost to make the Core USA pick-up so they said to heck with it, might as well throw the Core pick-up in there and just change the price to reflect that. Then they can not renew the lease/service/shipping contracts that were associated with the S2 pick-up potentially.
With the headstock, I like when an Epiphones version of a Gibson has the Gibson style headstock, but Epiphones original designs like the Casino or the Wilshire should have their original Epiphone headstock.
Similar reason why I think Fender Mexico needs to really push for using rosewood. That would undoubtedly make someone buy a Player or Vintera II instead of window shopping a Professional or Vintage II.
I just had the same situation a bit higher up, I was window shopping a Custom Shop '55 Strat, then the '54 Vintage II made me take the jump into the ash body reissue
On the headstock issue, Epiphone should have their headstock on the models they designed and Gibson headstock on Gibson models. Make it so. Please
The new Epiphones with the Gibson headstocks are also equipped with Gibson Custombucker pickups because they are the new "1959 Epiphone Les Paul"
I don't know of any change in the headstocks of their regular line of the 50s and 60s Epiphone Les Paul Standards.
I love more kalamazoo headstock than gibson headstock with epiphone brand on it. :)
Alright Phil, let’s cut to the chase. Green guitar on the wall. What is it and where can I buy?
Washburn Nuno Bettencourt signature
see his video name "My guitar collection with stories part 2"
Surprisingly, I thought with the open book headstock that’s all that was needed for the epiphone guitars , but now seeing it with the Epiphone logo still don’t like it as much lol. I think a good amount of people might just replace the Epiphone logo with Gibson and call it a day. I will say this my BB King Lucille inspired by Gibson, one of my best guitars. Keep it the way it is.
Possibly the best video to date. Nice job Philip!
What is the difference between Gibson and Epiphone and Fender and Squire?
Problem is the pricing is a bit crazy for some of the new Epiphones. They are trying to position themselves as a good mid price alternative for Gibson in the way that you have MIM fenders and PRS SE. They have two problems though Epiphone doesn't have that brand perception, people see Epiphone as a cheap guitar like squier because for a long time that was what it was. Also the pricing is just way beyond those other guitars even the most expensive PRS SE or fender MIM guitars don't really break £1000 (probably same in dollars I'd guess). At those prices I'd be looking at a 2nd hand Gibson not an expensive epiphone way more brand appeal & it would hold its value way better as well
I've heard a few reviewers, YTers speak of getting a used Gibson for the price of the new Epis. I've looked a LOT ... on numerous sites and I've yet to find a used Gibson near $1299. Maybe I'm looking for love in all the wrong places. ;)
I think when folks say that they mean very specific models. The Gibson LPJ and the Gibson Studio Faded Les Pauls can be had under $1000 shipped. I just checked Reverb to verify and saw a dozen or so. I have one of each ('16 Studio Faded T & '13 LPJ) and really like them. I like the LPJ most because of the 490R/498T pickups. The Studio Faded T has Bustbucker Pros.
Thank you @@Jim_Cox
@@Jim_CoxMy Greeny blows my tribute away !
@@tonedowne yes !
@@tonedowne paid 2.3k canadian but I don't regret it I ordered the new ES-355 $1800
I like the older/more traditional Epiphone headstocks. They were their own thing at one point and I always looked at it like keeping the old designs as a tribute. I own several Gibsons and Epiphones. Love them all differently. I think they should be different also in the way that the Epiphone is more geared towards the early stages as a musician whereas the Gibson is more for the serious and dedicated, long term, player. Most importantly I don't want to see the old headstock is on go away because in a way I feel that some of that originality from that company is going to die with it. If anything it has gone from separation of class between the expensive Gibson and the more affordable Epiphone to within the Epiphone company where it's separation with inside of itself. I dunno. I just like them to be different because an Epiphone is not a Gibson. They're a sub company but one I believe deserves to keep it's more original designs. In a way it's like being part of the group yet still being individual. Again I dunno but definitely not a separatist considering that my number two guitar is an epiphone which outranks many of my Gibsons.
I own an inspired by Gibson epiphone made in China. It's my no.5 guitar. Love it too death but it will never give what my vintage Gibson gives. Doesn't mean I don't still love the hell out of it and play it often in rotation. If you like it buy it, if not don't. More importantly DOES IT SOUND AND FEEL RIGHT? If you want a Gibson buy a Gibson it will not let you down. Neither will the Epiphone considering the price.
I take issue with this take because were talking about Epiphone here who tends never to get any positive reception about their guitars. If they want to improve their lineup they really should up their basic QC so they can be viable as gigging guitars and be on the level of PRS SE guitars. Dont even have to change anything specwise. Just treat the new guitarist a bit better for their investment.
Please review the new Eart E-325 semi-hollow if the opportunity presents itself. At $400.00 it looks like an attractive alternative to the ubiquitous ES335 styled guitars. :÷)
I can't speak to the newer epiphones, I played a couple of the recent 50's and 60's inspired by gibson epiphone les pauls and I was not impressed. Like, even a little bit. They played horribly. However, I do really want to start keeping an eye on the value of the 2010-era epiphone les pauls, now that the newer open-book headstocks have come into circulation.
I have a feeling the prices on some of the older models (standard pro, plus top pro, etc.) are going to drop in value because they have the older, pre-kalamazoo epiphone 2020 rebrand headstocks. Maybe I am crazy, but I'd have no problem picking up a couple different epiphones from the 2010s for 200-300 bucks and just modding them up. I 100% agree with the take that these companies are trying to sway their target customer one way and not the other. We can't all afford custom shop r9's, so maybe some of us spring for the standard 50's model. We can't all afford to fork over now $3,000 USD for the standard 50's model les paul, so maybe we "downgrade" to an epiphone with the same headstock and upgraded pickups, but no real attention to fixing the quality control. Then there are those of us like me who don't see the value in paying over $1,000 for an epiphone new, not when you can get a better equivalent from PRS.
They don’t start expensive….only the embellished , signature or custom shop versions….they still start at £499
I just bought an Epiphone Greeny, and loved it so much I bought another one immediately. I will also be buying a new Epi Les paul in factory 'burst. I love them, so I don't give a sh** what they cost. If you like something , you either buy it or b**ch about the price and move on. Me ,however, when I like something, I make it happen. And I'm retired and very limited finances, I don't give a sh**, the older you get, the less you'll waste time whining and you'll just make it happen ,period.
I get it, they’re expensive. Especially the greeny and AJ signatures. However, I think the argument that you can buy a used Gibson for that money doesn’t really wash, because you can yes, but it’s probably a studio or a tribute. Possibly a classic if you find a good deal, but you certainly aren’t buying a used standard, let alone a custom, for that money. Then it comes down to what’s better, a high end new epi or an entry level used Gibson? I have a tribute, and it’s a great guitar, but I have a couple epiphones that are better. I also have a classic and a standard that are better than my epiphones, but you aren’t going to get those for 12-14 hundred bucks. The fender argument makes a little more sense, because you can find some nice American models for that 8-900 range that are comparable feature wise with the player guitars. Just my 2 cents. The new 59’s for 1299 aren’t a terrible price when you consider you’re getting $500 custombuckers, a more accurate neck carve and real MOP inlays…my Gibsons dont even have that.
Yup my 58 reissue has custom buckers and I gig quite often. My favorite pick ups. This is an insanely great deal. Especially the 355. I will probably be buying one and I own 4 Gibsons. Plus your getting a hard shell case. A tribute is not hardwired, cheap hard ware, okay pick ups, no binding, no long neck tendon, not real mother of pearl, no hard shell case. Don't get me wrong I gigged with a lespaul tribute for a couple years. It sounded great. The epiphone is a better value though.
I have one of the newly shaped models
And it looks like a
Parted Hair Doo
Not an open book
When i started to play guitar, I dreamed for a Gibson SG standard. they were sold with a "starter" ibanez amp and cable, and guitar came with gibson hard case 980 euros(round 1k dollars). While there is definitely inflation and index rates, from 980 to 1980 euros, with now days gig back and pcb electronics, its pretty crazy in 16 years. So epiphone definitely hitting that old gibson price range. While i think 335 is altleast deal with MoPs and other specs, the indian laurel models are just trash.
My wife, who doesn’t play guitar and thinks I own wayyy too many guitars, is often really convinced by my arguments of “it’s a good price, it’s a brand that holds its value” - that I could ish get back what I spent if we hit hard times does really help when I need that next one - here’s hoping she never changes 😂
If only Gibson made relic'd headless guitars! 🤪🎸🔨😜
You have to break it yourself to get one of those!
@@marions.120 Or ship by UPS.
That's just the way business seems to evolve, you get a good brand for a while, but it becomes too big to fail, thus upping the price to ridiculous levels. The only answer is to have a second brand where you can start from the lower end again with pricing. But still made by the same people/company. Epiphone is that.
The Epi headstock had a somewhat better string angle through the nut.
Is the angle the same as Gibson now? One of the things I’ve always like _better_ about Epiphone headstocks is that the angle isn’t quite as drastic. Has that changed now tho, to match Gibson?
Also part of the uproar could be from jumping from $699 USD for the Epi Standard 50s & 60s line, which they seem to have done an amazing job with (including the pickups), to now almost double that for the “inspired by” line. Is there enough of a difference to justify it? Clearly to some people yes, to others no. 😂
I absolutely love mine…period!
Look what I found the specs on a 2021 Epiphone modern figured Sg with proper epiphone Kalamazoo headstock and it's high end..2024 are not the first high end Epiphones it goes back to 2020....The SG Modern Figured from Epiphone's Inspired by Gibson Collection has a classic SG profile made from Mahogany with a AAA Flame Maple Veneer top and Trans Black Fade finish. Powered by ProBucker humbuckers with coil-splitting, phase switching, and CTS electronics. Featuring an Ebony fingerboard and world class Grover Locking Rotomatic tuners with Tulip Buttons with an 18:1 ratio.Body:
Material: Mahogany
Top: AAA Flame Maple (3/4")
Neck:
Neck wood: Mahogany
Profile: Asymetrical Slim Taper with Contoured Heel
Fingerboard: Ebony with Pearl "Trapezoid" Inlays
Scale length: 24.724"
Number of frets: 24
Hardware:
Brige: LockTone ABR
Tailpiece: Stopbar
Knobs: Clear Top Hats with Ridge
Tuners: Grover Locking Rotomatic tuners with Tulip Buttons with an 18:1 ratio
Electronics:
Neck pickup: ProBucker-2 humbucker w/coil-splitting and phase switch
Bridge pickup: ProBucker-3 humbucker w/coil-splitting and phase switch
Controls: 2 Volume, 2 Tone, CTS electronics
PRS has done the best job of offering multiple price points without devaluing their reputation and branding
I think Fender has achieved that as well
I'm so old I remember when Gibson bought Epiphone. Either head stock is fine by me. I own a few of them and am not ashamed to play them.
I am happy that Epiphone quality continues to get better.
For the money, I personally would rather have an Eastman semi hollow over Epiphone, but the Epi are decent.
Cheap-> affordable -> obtainable ... what's the next euphemism?
I hear about how both Epiphone and Squire in the last couple years are going more "upscale," actually making better guitars, and of course charging higher prices for them. I recall all the Squire Affinity strats I saw the last two decades (okay, I might have bought one) at thrift stores and pawn shops, these were sold new with a really cheap amp as a package for $99/$129 at the Big Box stores (I remember seeing them at Walmart) 15-20 years ago. I "accidentally" got one at a thrift store, set it up, and was amazed at how much better it played than a previous one. It prompted me to look up online the various Squire "tiers" - this turned out to be a Standard, quite an improvement over the Affinitys of the time. The Standard was my main axe for years.
Now the Squier "Tiers" have changed and I'm a bit surprised they kept the Affinity name in the current lineup. I would have dropped it like a hot potato.
I believe now it's called the sonic series, might be wrong though
I agree with you. Guitars are luxury goods. Shop around for a good lifetime guitar you’ll be happy with.
This
Have my Gibson Les Paul do days I want to feel like a big deal and my guild star fire for literally everything else all of the time
never been happier
That’s really funny I can’t afford any of it and I still watch your channel
I played many $10,000 guitars and in most small club, other than other players, most people don’t even notice or care. I think I may try a new Epiphone?
✌️😎🎸🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶
Gibson is going to find out that by outpricing Epiphone as compared to the competition (i.e. Fender USA), the competition will introduce guitars with features that compete but made in the USA, thus causing Epiphone to lose out because a Fender USA (with 2 humbucker pickups) guitar will hold its value. I did that when I purchased my 2017 - 3-color H-S-S Fender American Professional Stratocaster with a rosewood fretboard versus the Gibson Les Paul Standard at the time, which was list priced at over $3,000. Hands down, the Fender won. I still have that Fender Strat. Another example is Heritage Guitars. They now offer a custom shop H-150, which is 1/2 of the price of a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul. I think Fender & Heritage may have the right formula.
The price of epiphone haven't gone crazy if you know Epiphones history epiphone was never meant to be a budget brand in the first place and they weren't Norlin ruined them when they took Gibson in 2019 into 2020 JC Curliegh Restored Epiphone back to where they should have always been and PRS are majority copies of Gibson Epiphone and Fender guitars you complaining about Epiphone will change nothing did it change GIBSON when you complained about there prices? No it changed nothing and neither will it with epiphone epiphone is where they should be
I bought the epi inspired by Gibson jumbo acoustic. It sounds awful like a 200.00 fender. And it’s real wood. I just don’t get it
I think to warrant a $1,000+ price tag, Epiphone needs to offer specs like stainless steel frets, headstock volute etc that would make for killer gigging guitars.
Ok, now they will be 2000
Stainless steal is super duper cheap. Don't know why not all brands just do it.
To warrant a $1000 price tag all they have to do is sell a couple hundred thousand at $1000
stainless cold no personality high gain metal prog sound
For $1K they should be able to build a guitar better than an actual Gibson.
Yup… proper ‘open book’ headstocks on Epiphone versions of Gibson models, but not original Epiphone designs e.g. Casino, Sheraton etc.
I just don't think drawing a parallel line between an S2 and an Epiphone is apples to apples? As far as the quality tier of instrument... I'd the S2 as more of what the Studio's and Tribute were/are.
Reminds me of the epi elitists that were mij and better than the us les pauls. they should go back to that.
Gibson CS LPs, Heritage 150s are works of art. Some guitars transcend instrument status. Those are the ones that I like the best.
I will always take a low model Gibson for the same price as these new Epiphones. I’ve owned and Epiphone back when they were $400 guitars and it was great. Is d never pay $1500 for one though.
Just this week, Gibson reduced prices on many Standard Les Pauls and Mesa Boogie. So things stopped selling. They didn't need to add value - they needed to decrease the price. More are likely to follow.
When that happens that's a sign of prices going up they always drop prices first before they raise them again
Pickups and a headstock that have value just because Gibson say they do. The headstock premium will only last until the novelty is gone.
At this point they may aswell just put gibson on the headstock, same company, same can be said with fender and squier
I bought a 94 Orville by GIBSON. I wanted to see how it was built. I stripped it refinished it in lacquer, It landed up being my favorite guitar, I have real RIs. When i stripped it i discovered it had a FLAME koa back they were using for mahogany. Long neck Tenon. Fret ends. W the new Gibson inlay u can't tell.
It's about time they started using the Gibson headstock. On another note is it just me or do I rarely see any young musicians playing Gibsons. I would think price might be a factor in that, but if I am correct and less young people are playing Gibsons I'd be concerned.
Cesar and Agnesi sit at night wondering now how we get those guys that cant afford a Gibson maybe just change the headstock shape on Epiphone and there you go $300
I feel like it that price point that should have offered nitrocellular paint I think that would just taken it over the edge, either that or open a new factory in USA have them learn to eventually work at the Gibson factory. You can pay cheaper labor to make cheaper guitars.
💚Ever since childhood, always always always wanted Epiphone with Gibson headstock. Friends did too. 25 years later, finally.
I remember the days that Epiphone les Paul was like $350 new. Couldnt believe some started to go to 700+. Now, in the thousands🤯. Onto Schecter I guess….