The MLS schedule and league structure as a whole is confusing and lacks cohesiveness. Between the various schedule interruptions for international qualifying and tournament play, confusing inter and intra league tournaments, exhibitions and so forth, it was hard for the casual fan to follow what was an MLS game and what was some sort of exhibition tournament. By the time the MLS playoffs rolled around, I think folks just tuned it all out. I think the MLS needs to streamline the regular season and playoff format to make it more digestible for casual fans. After a while, everything the MLS does seems like a money grab.
@@gg70000 Maybe, just maybe it is time to admit that all these massive claims that soccer/football is this fantastic loved sport in the USA with huge growing numbers of fans is just a load of baloney. Maybe, just maybe the number of soccer fans is much, much lower than everyone keep claiming and in fact it is and will likely remain for a long while only the 5th or 6th sport in the USA.
For me it was a complete mistake putting MLS behind a pay wall before the league had established itself in the US mainstream. It was growing fast when it was easily accessible. Apple TV has slowed the momentum of MLS growth because it is now on a platform most people don’t watch. The Premier League is now drinking the MLS milkshake in the USA because it is on over the air network TV most weeks and become the most watched league in the USA. You could understand going to Apple TV if the offered pay a huge amount of money more, but they haven’t and now MLS is getting less exposure in the mainstream media and lower TV viewers.
I am the demographic they are targeting and I couldn't care less. The regular season is completely meaningless, throw in a "fake" tournament in the middle, and on top of that put it behind a pay wall. MLS is holding itself back. Stop protecting the owners who don't want to invest and let owners that are serious do as they wish (within reason). There are legacy owners of teams who are riding the inflated valuations, invest nothing and see their teams valuation skyrocket. Another group of owners would spend and drastically improve the talent pool of the league, but are limited by the current rules. I want the MLS to be a successful league on and off the pitch. It's not far away, but there are people holding it back for selfish reasons.
All of that was already tried previously with the old NASL.. Yes, letting all the teams "loose" and run wild with spending worked for a time and the league became enormously popular after a few years... but eventually, teams started going bankrupt one-by-one until no teams were left standing by the mid 80's. I agree about the season being way overlong and the "fake" tournaments... but unfortunately, MLS is in a bind with that one since they need as many season games as possible to maximize money-making opportunities (also why they added "tournaments" on top of that). This of course, creates a very ani-climatic playoff season after taking way too long to build up to them...
@ 100% agree with the NASL part. It was set up to fail and they spent beyond their means. MLS is in a much better place than NASL ever was. Not all the teams have to spend but giving the option would be nice to see. LAFC has the revenue and pull to have a larger budget. Others may not. In North America MLB operates this way and can work. It’s not perfect but better players in the domestic league will lead to a stronger national team and potentially a better product to watch.
@@MLSMoves Exactly. It was the highest rated game over teh weekend. Not just that game. But several other conference championships were played that day. MOving into the business end of the NFL regular season. Its another valid reason to change the schedule.
@@freeisalwaysme If the MLS does that the entire league will fold up and disappear just like the three previous attempts to create a league over the last 40+ years. At least with summer they have a chance to get fans and viewers. Their playoffs & championship should always be ending no later than Halloween.
The ratings are down to one thing and one thing only and that thing is MLS and their schedule. The Leagues Cup is a waste of time there is zero reason to do it when we have CCC. The playoff schedule was so fucked you had a 3-week break to have the semi-finals. It is not very smart and it's not like it is a secret.
I'm going to drop a super long comment but I promise it'll all make sense. MLS will need to open up sub leasing rights to local TV. League pass needs to function like NBA League pass. Promote that during those sub leased games in local markets so you can organically get your subscribers. They also need to stop striking TH-camrs who react to content from their league. TH-camrs literally amplify content, stopping organic growth that way is also beyond dumb. Also the content MLS creates itself is so fake for the lack of a better term. It isn't organic nor is it engaging. I think BWP and Sasha & Mo are great but it's still lacking. Also the fact this league is PayWalled by a competitor to ESPN/Disney family kills any opportunity to get any day time talk
The problem is MLS as a whole. The league needs to be dissolved and completely rebuilt from the ground up. Its a bland uninteresting product with participation trophies handed out left and right with no consequences for failure.
Participation trophies? Like which ones? I agree MLS deserves plenty of criticism but bland and uninteresting is not at all how I’d describe it. You want bland and uninteresting watch the prem 😂 same team wins every year with only a few exceptions.
Your idea to start over is a sick joke and has been tried many times already. In the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. There is NO grassroots community support for soccer in the USA.
@gregorybiestek3431 MLS has killed off 175+ pro teams, most recently San Diego Loyal. But nobody cares about those clubs. Not wholly MLS' fault, since USSF is nominally the head of the sport in this country. But the MLS single entity form is the opposite of pro-rel, so quality is less important than parity.
I think MLS was placing all their money on Messi and Inter Miami to make it to the final. And when that didn't happen, they lost a lot of viewers. A Galaxy vs Miami final would have been nice.
Here’s some basic solutions to fix mls 1) offer different Apple TV+ plans. For example, you may pay half as much if you only follow your team and only can watch their games. You get no mls 360 2) pul mls 360 under the premium plan of $99 a year 3) make one game a week the spotlight game and have mls 360 go to the match and highlight the match, tailgate etc 4) scatter games on Saturday throughout the day. Putting all at 7:30 means fans can’t watch any other games if their team is playing
For me this one is an aberration because of the SEC Championship playing at the same time. If MLS could have they should have had MLS Cup on a different day. No way they don't lose a ton of casual viewers to a college football championship.
Tennesee-Iowa women's basketball went up against the Big Ten and ACC title games yet still outdrew the MLS Cup Final on the same network. Sorry, the level to which these numbers are bad cannot be ignored. MLS went to Apple because their tv numbers were bad, and didn't want to take a cut in revenue that reflected those poor numbers. Now, when they are on national tv, the numbers are even worse. It isn't a pretty picture.
Nobody ever asks Garber about what a post-Messi MLS looks like! Nothing against Jordan Morris and Alejandro Bedoya but NOBODY gets excited to watch these guys on a regular basis!!
You should not be getting existed to watch Messi at this stage of his career as a player he is in rapid decline, not at the pinicel of his career he is getting more & more injury prone he is not at the hight of his career now let's be truthful about it fans are getting hoode winked buy The Messi hype, in my view. Mu biggest problem personally with M.L.S is Leagues Cup it adds absolutely nothing to the season it's all about the money at that. it's all it's about.
People have been barking up the "MLS must capture Generic American Sports Fan" tree since 1996. It hasn't happened, it isn't gonna happen anytime soon. You can blame it on Apple TV all you want, but ESPN and FOX have been HORRIBLE partners, and no other networks have wanted them. NBC tried and failed (THAT could have been your "PL and MLS together" fantasy, but NBC dropped MLS like a hot potato once they had the PL). MLS's path to success has been through those hardcore fans, the ones that buy tickets, that's the only path that's proven. Generic Sports Fan is MLS commentators' Great White Whale.
All the networks have the viewing numbers. And they know that no matter the promotion. Its still a locally watched game. Apple doesn't have a tv network to do other cross promotion. Neither MLS or apple are going to pay millions out of pocket to advertise. On other sports networks to draw in viewers. They are still the 3rd most watched soccer league in the country.
they just don’t market it. Idk what they’re doing. Apple was supposed to fix the marketing, but I’ve never in my life seen an MLS add on tv. I had heard of a couple MLS teams in passing throughout my life but didn’t even know MLS still existed after the 90’s until 2022. I’d only ever heard “they started a league after the World Cup and it wasn’t good and people didn’t watch it.” They need a god damn Super Bowl commercial! they won’t capture anyone’s attention because they’ve never tried!
Garber tried to make MLS pay to watch the league, a big mistake. Every market needs a local station to broadcast from for free. Who cares how much they pay, just have a viable 3rd party option to broadcast that gives a FREE option.
Don Garber stated that Apple is the one requesting the Apple TV+ viewing numbers not be shared to the public. There's no detail as to why Apple is doing that, but Don Garber implies that MLS is pushing viewership similar to the NFL, NBA and NHL
Put them back on TV year round. Local TV! I watched my team every single game since their first game in the league on 09 until the apple deal... then have only been able to watch maybe 3 since then... plus it kills casual viewership and doesn't let new fans discover it.
I have watched LAFC since its inception. Recently I moved to Philly and I have to say I couldn't care less about the MLS final. I love Reus; that's my guy; but why would I watch that when everyone is watching college football championship games. It's more exciting and more hype around them. I am for the first time not subscribing for the mls package next year. Frustrating to see how unambitious the league was with Messi. They only invested in that club and nobody else.
To go off my comment. There is no hype around the games because nobody has access to watch their teams or grow the fan bases. Who's going to pay to watch something they don't know they like yet.
Incorrect. Apple TV live view is atrocious. It’s like watching the Jake Paul fight on Netflix but every single week. There only fix is watch it on your phone. It’s the worst production ever. Taylor is there only okay corespondent, barely any coverage. Pre-show is only live when games start😒. Worst experience ever. Just saying.
The simplest change for now could be going back to a 3 week playoff schedule. Nothing is really going on in November so why needlessly compete with the CFB championships? Also I didnt see a single ad for this game/MLS outside of on AppleTV which why would we even need 😭im alr here
I am in my early 50's, I rediscovered soccer after the 2010 World Cup & got hooked on Premier League during the 2011-2012 season. Living in NH the winters are long & cold. Nothing to do outside during Dec through March so I like to watch soccer on the weekends. But come late May, it is nice to get a break for a few months. In 2014 I started to watch NE Revs during their MLS cup run. I got the Apple season membership last year but since the Revs finished so poorly in 2023 and I don't follow other MLS teams I skipped renewing for $100 in 2024. I do not regret my decision. The Apple TV deal is bad for MLS. The games should be available on basic cable without paying a fee.
game wasn't advertised all that well, fox and espn have always sucked at advertising soccer. the time slot was also awful, 1 pm on the west coast? I had to leave my house around 9am to get to the game to make sure i was in the stadium on time. then you put it up against the biggest College football game on Saturday...
That's because American media despises soccer since there are no ad breaks. Therefore, soccer in the USA has to depend on billionaires and media money. Until 2014 soccer or football was regularly attacked by our politicians, media, etc. as "sissyball" watched only by unpatriotic citizens who should stripped of their rights and deported. Think I am making this up? Google "soccer is a sissy sport".
I don’t do apps ! I like easy access. Also cheap access. I’m not paying to watch anything on tv. I can watch epl, spl and Croatian league and Canadian for free !
The only usmnt players that should be coming to MLS should be those nearing retirement like ream and turner. Realistically Americans will never receive the needed recognition and support in the US that we need to grow MLS without our success in Europe. MLS is already broken and it would take major rework, another collapse our the top flight of socver in the US OR we take a note from England and have the top teams create a smaller more elite tier in the US. Puli, McKennie, Jedi, Balo, weah, musah. They all receive valuable playing time at very good teams against too opponents they never would see here. If Pulisic never eent to Dortmund he would never have reached the level he has on our team. Donovan is the exception to the system
Garber is not a man of ideas. MLS needs to push its culture into the communities where they have teams. All Garber cares about is money grab tournaments against Mexican teams, expansion and feeding the pockets of the owners. The hard core fans are already going to the games, which leaves very little to watch at home. The other thing is the salary cap and weird rules. Teams should be allowed to succeed and fail on their own merits and not based on what the league allows them to do or not do. The push for stars in their prime should be a thing. I know it won’t be easy, but once the stars start rolling in the league will gain respectability with the casual fans and more players will want to play here. MLS doesn’t need to be the best league in world, but it needs to be the league in the Americas. Every player South of the border all the way to Argentina should see this league as their prime league for a career and success. The problem is Garber is too short sighted and lacks the ambition to see this. I really want to see Garber go, he did his thing. But he treats the league like it’s still 1996 . We need more ambition.
I agree with the mentality and ideas but I don’t think you realize that being the best league in the Americas is a completely ball game that is several times harder than the best in North America. It’s not impossible but we would have to compete with the Copa Libertadores which is not an easy task.
The salary cap system in the USA allows sports to operate. There is NO grassroots community of "clubs" for any sport in the USA. As such, each team MUST find sufficient $$$ to operate. If it cannot find that level of support in City "A" it has two choices (1) fold & stop participating or: (2) move to City "B" that will provide it with the support to keep operating. UK teams have travel 25 to 50 kilometers or at most 600 km. Meanwhile in the US teams have to travel 500 kilometers to their closest competitors and frequently up to 4,000 km. For example, in Division II USL Eastern Conference Detroit FC has to travel 1200 km to play Birmingham and four days later 950 km to play Hartford. To play a team in California is 3,000 km away. Because of the small # of fans (tickets) & the lack of media $$ added to the costs of players, facilities, etc. plus the huge travel costs in the USA it makes NO financial sense unless the is a system of salary caps and revenue sharing. in the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. Free market spending, if implemented, really would be the kiss of death for American soccer.
American leagues have a monopoly on their respective sports. MLS does not. it will always struggle because of that. Does not matter what variables you try to change.
The youth pathway is the key..... The US should easily be developing their own players each year..... Target every elementary... Small fields on-site..... Log all kids with talent... Make sure they attend a soccer middle/high school that is attatched to an MLS senior side The biggest key for developing great soccer players is elementary school recess.... Supuervised pick-uo games.... Easy to manage.... Mass participation..... Then moving to middle/high school they MUST be training with great MLS Mens players at 14/15/16 years old... Everyday By the time they are 17/18..... A great player will be playing MLS every week But the key is elementary schools.... Simple... Recess... Surpervised.... Self-governed pick-up games.... Mass participation
It kind of reminds me of why I will never EVER get into American Football. Growing up as a soccer fan my whole life I was ridiculed and had my sport berated by football fans. After developing my the soccer way of supporting a club with youth academies, legends that play for your club 10+ plus years, rivalries that are more than just games but are tied to politics and ethnicity I can't support American Football. I can't watch a sport where the general fans hate my sport with a passion. Sure the athletes loves soccer and vice versa but I no intention of giving my money, support and view to a sport that fundamentally hates mine out because it's a sport for pansies or actors.
I’ll say, as a fan of football living in the US, but not necessarily a MLS fan, I used to tune in more when it was regularly on ESPN or Fox. Could be way off on this, but seems like it’s not on regular TV as much anymore. I know there’s a deal with Apple, that could be contributing to the lower ratings. I wasn’t aware the final was available for free.
Last year I watched so many games when Apple was paired with T-Mobile. I don't support apple so I didn't purchase a subscription. On that same note, I religiously watch Arsenal.
Having a 1:00 p.m. final is terrible a lot of soccer fans were probably out there still playing in their local tournament. I'm a LA Galaxy fan and most of our games start around 7:00 p.m. who are you really competing with on that one Saturday
In regards to the super team thing, that's exactly why the Prem is dying. The premier League is the Pinnacle of football but only at the top. A league the has 3 possible winners year over year isn't interesting. People love the Prem because of the history but in recent times the league is dying. All the money Man City has spent has had a very adverse effect on the league. Which is why everyone is happy to see them fall after the Rodri injury
I do think FFP should have simple, clear and inflexible rules so that PL attorneys can't weasel out of them. That would prevent City and before them Chelsea just outspending competitors.
What they fail to realize. Its not about how its marketed in the Apple ecosystem. its how you advertise to everyone outside of it. Local channels did that work for free. But then aApple would have realized. Just like ESPN and FOX. The numbers outside of those local markets suck.
I have become cynical about soccer in America. I think it will have its day but I don't know what it is. What is it about soccer that just throws Americans off? And don't say flopping or "grass fairies". I got my theories.
Unfortunately the MLS isn’t “cool” the players don’t have personalities. As someone new to MLS but watched European ball all my life, the players don’t have persona… you’re right the football is good but except for Messi who is the GOAT but at the end of his career, only one I see is the kid in Philly and he’s leaving soon. You can get into him because he could get better and could be great, Messi already did it all. That’s what MLS is missing imo
Relying on an ageing superstar to hook viewers is illogical in my book - especially if the goal is to grow the league’s exposure LONG term. As an outsider there needs to be a USP to the league, more jeopardy and narratives in the U.S. game… and yes, I am nodding towards the Pro/Rel debate. There needs to be a compromise. Also, I think locking the MLS behind a poorly marketed, streaming service isn’t going to do the league any favours short-term.
@@MLSMoves MLS and the Saudi league can buy as many superstars as they like, but it’s still no dice for viewership. An amateur film student could persuade Brad Pitt to make a half-hearted appearance on camera… but the movie is still going to stink.
@@EmsionProductions Promotion/Relegation is a solution to having too many soccer clubs for a given country/market. In the UK every tiny town of 5,000 people has a professional club which may be fine for them but is idiotic to think will be the case in the USA for at least 25 years. UK teams have travel 25 to 50 kilometers or at most 600 km. Meanwhile in the US teams have to travel 500 kilometers to their closest competitors and frequently up to 4,000 km. For example, in Division II USL Eastern Conference Detroit FC has to travel 1200 km to play Birmingham and 950 km to play Hartford. To play a team in California is 3,000 km away. Because of the small # of fans (tickets) & the lack of media $$ added to the costs of players, facilities, etc. plus the huge travel costs in the USA it makes NO financial sense for a promoted team that does not have any money to try & travel 3,000 km every week and not go bankrupt within two years. How long would EFL league teams stay in existence if they had to travel EVERY WEEK to Spain, Sweden, Greece & Poland? They wouldn’t. Perhaps in 25 years the US will have regional leagues each with 20+ teams & limited travel. Once that happens THEN we can talk about pro/rel.
@@gregorybiestek3431 Preaching to the choir. I agree wholeheartedly that throwing Pro/Rel into the mix with little regard to the fragility of league and clubs + sports culture in U.S. is nuts. However, I think some element of reprucussion for lower level teams needs to be incorporated until some form of Pro/Rel can be added.
I just fundamentally don’t care about a soccer playoff. MLS is a terrible compromise between soccer and U.S. sports structure. Supporters shield makes more sense to me, although I get east/west makes that weird. Abolish east/west, make the league smaller, establish a pyramid and pro/rel.
In the MLS playoffs games should not be decided by penalties but from play. Because penalties are like equalizers , they give chance to weak teams that just need tie in the regular time. In penalties the goalkeepers are the most important players and we do not need that. We need players who are good on the ball to be the most important. So in the playoffs in the 80 min. of the game remove the goalkeepers , but goals should be scored only from within the small rectangle . this will give advantage to teams that have better skilled players. And it should be a sudden death. This will prevent weak teams advancing to the MLS cup.
@@r2dad282 some people here in america would like to reduce the socer game to penalties , they think that all that running on the field is just a waist of time.
No one watches because (a) they spend NO money on players, and (b) it is on Apple. No one can get games unless you pay extra for them. It will not happen because of (a).
Just get shot of this Leagues Cup 💩 & everything will be absolutely fine, that is the biggest problem M.L.S has it adds absolutely nothing to the season & is just a way of scamming fans out of hard earned money buy needlessly makeing the season longer than it needs to be.
Its funny to me, MLS is run by an ex NFL executive, and he isn't following Goodell's lead. I don't see anything wrong with MLS having a streamer deal. However, what makes sports work best is when its on free tv, aka OTA tv, that folks can watch via cable or a tv antenna. But MLS needs to find a way to link its tv to both Liga Mx and the EPL, both draw well if not better than MLS. I referenced the EPL and the NFL because MLS had a period when they were on NBC and it worked great and the ratings showed that the EPL was a great lead in. The time difference allows folks to hypothetically veg out in front of a tv all day on the weekend and watch soccer. EPL games could serve as a morning lead in, leading to afternoon and evening MLS games and/or LigaMX games. Thats why the NFL keeps toying with a London team for this exact reason. To me, MLS has an opportunity screaming for it with the CW, its an ota channel with wide availability, and they need content. Same thing, MLS also screwed up by not forcing Apple to have better android integration. Part of the problem is the apple tv or the MLS teams don't have an app that works on android, whereas peacock does.
There should be a push to have mls and liga mx compete in copa libertadores. The incentives that currently exist are not creating quality domestic soccer. If teams are rewarded with a place at a tournament like the libertadores, you should see the quality and fan interest increase.
8:57 What a lame take by your guest. The reason MLS is not more popular is not because MLS fans are douchey. You answer the question in the next sentence by saying that if MLS provides a good product you are going to come in. Why the ad hominem attack on MLS fans whose crime seems to be supporting the domestic league.
we gotta move leagues cup to january or get rid of it playing into december is killing us playoffs are too long we dont need a wildcard week or round of 3 if we do 16 teams it has to be home and away until the final thats 4 weeks the longer they last, the more people turn off and tell abc or cbs to take the mls tv rights were only getting 25 million from fox if we can get that from either were good and get univison or telemundo to air some games they were playing the scorpion king during mls cup im sure their ratings would be better with a soccer final than a 20 year old movie.
Big names in each team will bring more viewership. Why is the Premier league very popular? Marquee players from all over the world. I used to watch NY Redbulls until they stopped acquiring marquee players.
I am an RSL season ticket holder and can’t stand the MLS. Love my club the league is terrible. The mid season tournament means nothing , the playoff format is garbage. The MLS needs to focus on producing soccer not flashy players and fake competitions
The mls tries so hard to be like the other North American Leagues when it should strive to be unique. I’m realistic about the possibility of pro/rel therefore i suggest be creative on adding stakes. Make finishing playoffs places as challenging as euro clubs finishing in the top 4 places. Implement consequences for finishing in the bottom places like bottom 5 are forces to play in the leagues cup.
@ if it means getting rid of the money grab excuse of a tournament then so be it. I want mls to succeed and grow in quality but recent decisions, like the Apple deal, have further slowed it. Not to mention I fear the emblem of retirement league is making a comeback.
@@midnightman5139 Promotion/relegation will not work in the USA because teams sent down would lose fans, media coverage and MOST OF ALL money. There is NO community base of support big enough to sustain a relegated team. If relegation was implemented in the USA a team does not get a chance to be better, it would just fold and within a couple of years the entire league. In the US even without relegation in the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. Pro/rel, if implemented, really would be the kiss of death for American soccer.
@ I agree that the sport isn’t popular enough to support relegated teams like other nations. However while I don’t think pro/rel will ever happen I do think we should try to find creative ways to replicate the competitive nature and stakes that pro/rel creates. There should be consequences for finishing bottom of the standings and fighting for playoff places should much more challenging.
We've both said before how the promotion sucks, I mean I knew it was on, but I didn't see anything about it on Apple for most of the week, first thing I saw was the night before, it's another reason they need to let owners spend, im not saying go mad and spend $100m on some player, there's plenty of good players MLS clubs could probably get for about $15m-$20m, they need to spend money to improve the product, I mentioned a few potential guys a couple of videos ago, another guy Victor Lindelof, yes he's been so so at Man Utd, but almost immediately he'd probably be the best CB in MLS
@MLSMoves I agree, just hiring players who are out of favour in their current situation, maybe their current manager just doesn't fancy them (Ben Chilwell) or prefers another guy for his system (Djed Spence), would improve the quality of the football massively
@nerychristian in theory the concept is a good one, I do believe the future is streaming but they've really got to improve how they promote things, if not they'll get left behind
What's looming in this discussion is the Relevant Decision. If foreign leagues start setting up shop in the US- and why not- there are a tremendous amount of dollars to be had from this market- it's lights out for MLS. Liga MX, in particular, could really clamp down the US market , at least as it relates to MLS. What I fear is that MLS is going to do everything it can to merge with Liga MX. As a MLS STH, that would suck quite a bit. I personally want nothing to do with Liga MX. MLS should be trying to effectively kill that league- not joining with it- whether it be LC now or full on merger down the road. Now, what's the daring answer to all of this? As your guest astutely notes: soccer is not some minor sport here. There are tons of soccer mad fans here who consume a ton of content. But here's the rub: those fans are sophisticated, and frankly, lacking a better word- are worldly in their outlook. These fans KNOW that the best soccer in the world is in Europe and more so UCL. If I'm MLS (and USSF, obs) I'm moving heaven and earth to join UEFA and thus UCL. You get that direct link to the best soccer competition on the planet and then suddenly MLS is second only to the NFL in US. You will have relevance and gobs and gobs of dollars. Dear lord, the UCL broadcast rights alone would be gargantuan if US teams were entered. Every single stud soccer player that is in their prime is suddenly on the table to play in the States. Like I opened with, the Relevant decision has the potential to utterly gut MLS if UCL matches, which I think is far more likely, start getting scheduled here regularly. (And before the eurosnobs jump on me, as they usually do when I bring this up, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime- I'm 54. But if I'm MLS and I want to counter Liga MX playing half its matches here- you got one move left to make- Europe. Otherwise you'll just be Liga MX adjacent in the US sporting landscape and the larger audience won't terribly care.)
LIga Mx is the top league in the continent. MLS can't even dominate the continental championship here. I'm not sure what makes you think they can got to uefa and compete ther with a salary cap.
Excellent points throughout. PS. Adam has good points, but… he needs to STOP using the word “like” in between each word. It’s difficult to listen to… like you know, like it’s kinda like grating to like listen to.
No messi, RBNY has one of the lowest popular fan base, Galaxy were knowingly the clear fav/winners pre match, apple paywall, other sports going on and time of day
First thing, all the regular fans were probably watching it on Apple, like they did the rest of the year. Secondly, don't schedule during the college football conference championships. Casual MLS fans in the US watch other sports too. Also, the NWSL might pass MLS at this point. They signed a media contract with multiple networks, so I've casually come across games a watched, just because it was on. Also, at least the NWSL you can watch uswnt players and some of the best players in the world, with the possibility of becoming an actual super league, while MLS can't say the same. Lastly, their promotion sucks. In college football, it's advertised all week long the big games gor the weekend, for mls nothing.
@davepazz580 🇯🇵 had at least two other established popular sports when the J-League started...baseball and sumo wrestling. Still, it managed to grow organically and strategically. The league now basically covers most of Japan, has pro-rel, and is generally thriving. Also, it's helping to produce pretty good players.
In other words, no, Japan does not have at least 3 other big-time sports leagues... If the only other major team sport in the US was NFL football, *then* we could learn a lesson from how Japan operates its league... but right now, the sports environment between the two is apples to oranges.
@davepazz580 It's an apples to apples comparison. Like the J-League, when MLS started in the 90s ⚽️ was a "foreign sport." The fact that there was one extra sport that was popular in the 🇺🇸 doesn't negate the fact that ⚽️ was at the bottom of the sports pecking order in both countries back then. Also, keep in mind that the population of the 🇺🇸 was roughly *twice* that of 🇯🇵....it's now 2.5 times the population of 🇯🇵. Yet the J-League is generally thriving in 🇯🇵, while MLS is treading water in the 🇺🇸.
Just because both leagues started in the 90's doesn't mean anything... In fact, the US previously had a top professional soccer league in the NASL which lasted roughly 15 years... that league was a big success for a time, then fizzled out precisely because it lacked revenue-sharing and salary caps (i.e. the model was unsustainable). Teams in the old NASL were independent entities that were permitted to spend however they pleased (like in Europe) which led to a league full of very few star-studded teams and a lot more modest teams with players not really up to a professional level. This led to fans of those modest teams hemorrhaging fans year after year until they all started going bankrupt one after the other until no team was left standing. Fans of those lesser teams simply moved onto whatever next big sport was offered in town and never looked back to the NASL. So what the US also has that Japan does not is an actual situation where a top professional soccer league was tried but eventually failed... hence, why MLS is a single-entity league with salary caps and an emphasis on all teams having a reasonable chance from day one of creating a competitive team.
Not too worried about TV numbers. They are only one metric to measure the league's growth in popularity. If you track average attendance over time since the league started, it's been a slow steady climb. Excited to see San Diego fill up their stadium next year!
Less than one-half million viewers on Fox is really bad. It is fewer viewers than the regular season Tennessee vs Iowa women's basketball game that aired later that day on the same network.
If MLS wants to move forward the only solution I see is that the MLS owners that are holding the league back those owners need to sell there teams not sure of the 30 teams which owners are but the ones that are need to sell so this league could move forward not stagnate One of those is New England Revolution , San Jose Earthquakes Sporting Kansas City. FC Dallas Philadelphia union and DC United just to name a few then need to sell there teams
@@freeisalwaysme Everyone wants Pro/ Rel but even with the current system, teams are folding every year. In 2023 two USL team ceased operations and a third postponed operations until 2026. In 2024 another USL ceased operations. Until the USA has way more teams on sound financial footing, promotion/relegation will be a solution to a problem of having too many teams does not yet exist in a nation indifferent to the sport. Pro/rel is a great way to kill the sport in the USA.
Is it just me or is the MLS system completely socialist? Seems funny saying its an "American" league when its structure entirely ignores basic capitalism. You and Adam put it perfectly, how America loves soccer but doesnt love the MLS. There is no free market, every team gets paid evenly, and it shows how they havent been able to draw in casual viewers. The "parity" of it all is the exact opposite of how the American and capitalist economies work. A failing team should have to earn their way to the top, not be given reward for it. This also translates to the decline and sporatic growth. In socialism, because there is no competition for factors of production, there is no "market value" associated with it, and the only value you can compare it to is outside pricings. This is the same for MLS, where they are only seeing potential when big outside players are signed and leagues show example. The system is completely unsustainable, especially of how EXTRA conservative MLS is. Throughout all American franchises, they have most of the time focused on maximizing short term profit instead of viewing massive long term gains & sustainability, take the NFL for example. The MLS is at an even lower disadvantage with this because it is culturally behind. Like both of yall said, nobody knows about the League, having the cycle repeat itself. Mls is not going to be able to long term keep itslef afloat unless they start changing things, or possibly somehow people start watching the sport.
The lack of a free market system in the USA allows sports to operate. There is NO grassroots community of "clubs" for any sport in the USA. As such, each team MUST find sufficient $$$ to operate. If it cannot find that level of support in City "A" it has two choices (1) fold & stop participating or: (2) move to City "B" that will provide it with the support to keep operating. UK teams have travel 25 to 50 kilometers or at most 600 km. Meanwhile in the US teams have to travel 500 kilometers to their closest competitors and frequently up to 4,000 km. For example, in Division II USL Eastern Conference Detroit FC has to travel 1200 km to play Birmingham and four days later 950 km to play Hartford. To play a team in California is 3,000 km away. Because of the small # of fans (tickets) & the lack of media $$ added to the costs of players, facilities, etc. plus the huge travel costs in the USA it makes NO financial sense unless the is a system of salary caps and revenue sharing. In the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. Free market spending, if implemented, really would be the kiss of death for American soccer.
How has the USL championship final gotten more tv viewers than the mls? And with them not releasing Apple TV numbers, possibly a similar amount watched the two finals on streaming, embarrassing
MLS needs american stars. The stars right now are in Europe and will stay there. The american newcomers cant appear if they dont have space in the starting teams. I have only heard about Bright from Miami, did more new great american players appear in 2024. I dont know. The league is too Messi (miami) centered.
They need more stars period. Doesn't matter where they are from. It's not exciting to watch old European players who came over for a paycheck. We need young, world class players choosing MLS. They need get rid of salary cap
I don’t understand why MLS teams can’t open the books and get every amazing player from wales, Ireland, Scotland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Russia, France to play here instead of in Europe. Wouldn’t these guys rather play in Chicago, ny, Miami, Austin than in Belfast, and Copenhagen.
THEY DONT HAVE STARS! Real soccer fans know that MLS is third tier level European soccer. Even if a soccer fan watches their local mls team, they are not going out of their way to watch other mls teams because the quality isn’t great. That’s it. Most reg. season games don’t have amazing plays or amazing goals.
They aren't targeting "real" soccer fans (that would be a lost cause anyway)... they are targeting a general sports-going audience that will actually show up to games.
@ seems really hard to build a solid fan base when the people who actually like the sport dont watch it and recommend it to others. its like your making your job even harder. seems like the mls made its biggest jump when it started to copy europe making it appear more legit to actual soccer fans. i dont think we want to go back to the days when they tried to americanize soccer. solution is simple, let the clubs loose to buy any player they want, that will put them on par with top leagues in the world talent wise, then the marketing dollars and attention will come.
The problem with that is the "real" soccer fans will never accept MLS... you could bring every single star over from all the leagues around the world (which could never happen anyway) and they'd all still find something to criticize and keep away regardless. All these fans are already being well-served by streaming services that show whichever league they want... the only differentiating factor for MLS is a fan has access to actually attending game sin person on a regular basis (assuming they have one based in their city). Since such fans are already being served in other ways, MLS's focus is more on the typical US sports-going fan (keeping in mind the largest percentage of American sports fans are essentially "multi-sport" rather than single sport die-hards like in Europe)... they are about creating fan bases *specific* to MLS and MLS's way of doing things instead of the sport in general. The second part of your question when you mention MLS "clubs" is that MLS actually has no real "clubs"... they have "franchises" that belong to a single league - this completely changes the dynamic of everything. The last time the US had a top soccer league was the old NASL and those teams were actually run very similarly to European clubs (in that they were all fully independent entities with no ties whatsoever to other NASL teams) and they had no salary restrictions and could spend all the money they pleased to sign up any big name they wanted (and they did)... Then after about 15 years, the entire league basically went bankrupt... Moral of the story... any US sports league that doesn't use salary caps or shared revenue will start to lose money pretty quickly causing funding from owners much less likely. Funny to me how people totally forget that US soccer already had a top league in the past and it actually became very big and popular for a short period of time before inevitably fizzing out precisely for the mistakes people want to repeat today (no spending limits, sign a bunch of top stars, be like Europe, etc.). MLS's single-entity, shared-revenue model is the only reason the league has been around for as long as it has... it would have gone bankrupt yet again if they just followed the old model.
Ok so I think I have a couple answers to your questions. To preface this is my perspective, but I am one of those potential fans that is ripe for the taking. For context I’m a huge Everton fan and USMNT/USWNT fan and I also passively support Ajax and Roma. I watch a lot of soccer, I don’t watch or interact with the MLS. I am going to make an attempt this upcoming season, me and some friends are buying a 4 pack to our local team (NE Revolution) and I plan on buying the game pass on apple, but I really feel like I’m forcing myself to give it a chance. In short here are my general problems with the MLS 1) the atmosphere. I know this varies wildly from team to team, but my local team (the revolution) provides an awful atmosphere. The stadium is too big for the match, the field is artificial turf, the fans are often not very informed soccer fans, it has the vibe of “lets get the kids in the van and bring them to the match” and this is heavily contrasted by die hard fans that while they are very into it just come off as very corny. 2) The product: Getting a big name like messi on the field is cool, but it’s also not interesting. It completely tips the scale of the league. It bothers me so much that every team doesn’t bring on a stud player. It’s bizarre watching messi play against a team like the revs, the level of talent is so vastly different it makes the match uninteresting. It would be like watching Liverpool play a league 1 side. 3) The lack of relegation: To me this is the best thing European soccer has to offer. I hate tanking in sports, it’s dumb and pathetic. Watching Everton fight relegation these past few years has been exhilarating. Seeing teams flounder at the bottom is pathetic, the game needs stakes. The USL and NPSL and UPSL need to be in one system. Watching a team like Luton rise through the ranks gives life to the sport. I think the franchise model of the MLS is the ultimate form of cowardice by the “investing partners”. There should be real risk, it ensures everyone is trying to win. Also by not having relegation it sterilizes the game. 4) The two league/playoff format: it completely americanizes the sport. The format of getting the most points by seasons end is a good format, supplemented by cups it creates plenty of drama, the playoff thing just feels very American. In all honestly I can learn to embrace this, it’s not that egregious it’s just different. 5) A lack of international club competition: the uefa champions league/europa league is exciting and realistically there should be a massive champions league style tournament involving all of the americas, and it should be heavily promoted. I want the MLS to succeed, but the leadership needs to change, they need to see that this product is sub-par and changes need to be made to make the product more authentic to European football, it doesn’t need to be a carbon copy, but it needs to be less americanized, or the owners need to accept that it is a different and forever subpar product.
1. There actually aren't too many "artificial turf" MLS stadiums... in fact, none come immediately to mind. The large majority of stadiums use natural grass... or at least, it looks so close to natural grass that it really doesn't make any practical difference in any regard. 3. It's a romantic idea, but that system only works where soccer is the king sport and the national obsession... where fans won't "jump ship" once a team gets relegated because they can easily go watch another big sports team in town and forget soccer entirely (as was the case with the old NASL of the 70's and 80's). With so many competing sports leagues all targeting the same audience, it's *very* to just drop one sport for another... no US sports league wants to give fans reason to stop watching and condemning them to at least a year of inferior-league soccer would accomplish that very well. 4. Mexico and Brazil both uses the playoff system to determine the league champion... The problem with the single-table, up and down format is similar to relegation... it would basically mean the majority of teams would be out of the running for the league title midway through a season, which means fans would (again) jump ship. The playoff system keeps fan interest going longer into a season, as a playoff spot means they will still have a shot at the title. I believe the playoff system is a good one, but not how MLS does it... 5. There is an international cub competition that MLS teams participate in... the Concacaf Champions League.
personally i love watching the sport in europe, but i dont watch mls games and i only really caught miami games because of messi. i live in new york though so i decided to go to nycfc's home game against cinci and honestly, the atmosphere was so dead for a must win game that it kind of put me off. i never felt excited during the game and maybe it was just because i dont have much passion for nycfc in the first place, but i think that kind of energy can be contagious and it just wasn't really there. that isn't to say i won't be going to watch any more games because ill probably go to a few next season as well to support a ny club, but i'm not exactly THAT looking forward to my next visit either. like ill probably enjoy it, but nothing special. also, personally because i started paying attention to mls after nycfc was founded, i relate more to nycfc because they often use citi field which is in the heart of queens. meanwhile, nyrb is in newark, new jersey and i never liked how the newark airport is considered a new york airport eiher, even though i understood why. so to me, nyrb feels more like njrb so the hudson river derby actually feels more like new york vs new jersey than two new york clubs battling it out like a yankees vs mets. i have a friend who's also into soccer as well independently from me as his family has european roots and this was the reasoning they ended up choosing nycfc over nyrb as well. this is also the reason why i didnt bother watching the final with nyrb either even though im from new york.
Keep supporting NYCFC, they will have a new soccer specific stadium next to Mets field in a year.I know, It's hard to be motivated about a soccer team that plays on a baseball field.
@@fantasyEXX i mean you say that but then you look at the ratings for the final with those two teams and idk. of course i dont know much about the mls so im not going to contest you on that but if the mls is to grow, you're going to get new fans as well. i dont know about the LA situation but i have a feeling people would rather choose a club more easily accessible and is actually in the city than a club in another state.
The point is the playoff system there hasn't diminished the demand of enthusiasm for the game one bit... You don't see Brazilians on the streets protesting their league format demanding it be like Europe or else it's somehow not legitimate.
For me it was a complete mistake putting MLS behind a pay wall before the league had established itself in the US mainstream. It was growing fast when it was easily accessible. Apple TV has slowed the momentum of MLS growth because it is now on a platform most people don’t watch. The Premier League is now drinking the MLS milkshake in the USA because it is on over the air network TV most weeks and become the most watched league in the USA. You could understand going to Apple TV if the offered pay a huge amount of money more, but they haven’t and now MLS is getting less exposure in the mainstream media and lower TV viewers.
Are you concerned with the bad MLS Cup Final Ratings?
Yes
The MLS schedule and league structure as a whole is confusing and lacks cohesiveness. Between the various schedule interruptions for international qualifying and tournament play, confusing inter and intra league tournaments, exhibitions and so forth, it was hard for the casual fan to follow what was an MLS game and what was some sort of exhibition tournament. By the time the MLS playoffs rolled around, I think folks just tuned it all out. I think the MLS needs to streamline the regular season and playoff format to make it more digestible for casual fans. After a while, everything the MLS does seems like a money grab.
No. We don't have Apple numbers. Anyone that is subscribed to Apple has no reason to watch anywhere else.
No
@@gg70000 Maybe, just maybe it is time to admit that all these massive claims that soccer/football is this fantastic loved sport in the USA with huge growing numbers of fans is just a load of baloney. Maybe, just maybe the number of soccer fans is much, much lower than everyone keep claiming and in fact it is and will likely remain for a long while only the 5th or 6th sport in the USA.
Soccer people follow teams not players. They keep repeating this mistake thinking if we bring this big name this time it will blow up.
Like this if you think Don Garber sucks!
He is terrible
I knew Apple TV would ruin mls. No exposure to possible new fans. I didn’t get Apple TV. I’m not paying extra.
Tell me who else would be better and a few reasons you don't like him...
@@BTheDifference100 his apple deal was a disaster. Apple delivers no new fans because of no exposure. A disaster !
For me it was a complete mistake putting MLS behind a pay wall before the league had established itself in the US mainstream. It was growing fast when it was easily accessible. Apple TV has slowed the momentum of MLS growth because it is now on a platform most people don’t watch. The Premier League is now drinking the MLS milkshake in the USA because it is on over the air network TV most weeks and become the most watched league in the USA.
You could understand going to Apple TV if the offered pay a huge amount of money more, but they haven’t and now MLS is getting less exposure in the mainstream media and lower TV viewers.
@@Delboy0 💯
I agree
I am the demographic they are targeting and I couldn't care less. The regular season is completely meaningless, throw in a "fake" tournament in the middle, and on top of that put it behind a pay wall. MLS is holding itself back. Stop protecting the owners who don't want to invest and let owners that are serious do as they wish (within reason). There are legacy owners of teams who are riding the inflated valuations, invest nothing and see their teams valuation skyrocket. Another group of owners would spend and drastically improve the talent pool of the league, but are limited by the current rules. I want the MLS to be a successful league on and off the pitch. It's not far away, but there are people holding it back for selfish reasons.
All of that was already tried previously with the old NASL..
Yes, letting all the teams "loose" and run wild with spending worked for a time and the league became enormously popular after a few years... but eventually, teams started going bankrupt one-by-one until no teams were left standing by the mid 80's.
I agree about the season being way overlong and the "fake" tournaments... but unfortunately, MLS is in a bind with that one since they need as many season games as possible to maximize money-making opportunities (also why they added "tournaments" on top of that).
This of course, creates a very ani-climatic playoff season after taking way too long to build up to them...
@ 100% agree with the NASL part. It was set up to fail and they spent beyond their means. MLS is in a much better place than NASL ever was. Not all the teams have to spend but giving the option would be nice to see. LAFC has the revenue and pull to have a larger budget. Others may not. In North America MLB operates this way and can work. It’s not perfect but better players in the domestic league will lead to a stronger national team and potentially a better product to watch.
The problem is they played the game at 1pm on a Saturday in LA. If they put it at 5pm local time it would have done way better
Also was competing with the SEC championship game
@@MLSMoves Exactly. It was the highest rated game over teh weekend. Not just that game. But several other conference championships were played that day. MOving into the business end of the NFL regular season. Its another valid reason to change the schedule.
@@freeisalwaysme change to what? Fall through winter? That's even worse.
@@freeisalwaysme If the MLS does that the entire league will fold up and disappear just like the three previous attempts to create a league over the last 40+ years. At least with summer they have a chance to get fans and viewers. Their playoffs & championship should always be ending no later than Halloween.
The ratings are down to one thing and one thing only and that thing is MLS and their schedule. The Leagues Cup is a waste of time there is zero reason to do it when we have CCC. The playoff schedule was so fucked you had a 3-week break to have the semi-finals. It is not very smart and it's not like it is a secret.
100% what I am am saying as well.
I'm going to drop a super long comment but I promise it'll all make sense.
MLS will need to open up sub leasing rights to local TV. League pass needs to function like NBA League pass. Promote that during those sub leased games in local markets so you can organically get your subscribers.
They also need to stop striking TH-camrs who react to content from their league. TH-camrs literally amplify content, stopping organic growth that way is also beyond dumb.
Also the content MLS creates itself is so fake for the lack of a better term. It isn't organic nor is it engaging. I think BWP and Sasha & Mo are great but it's still lacking. Also the fact this league is PayWalled by a competitor to ESPN/Disney family kills any opportunity to get any day time talk
The MLS games need to be free on Apple after the World Cup.
The problem is MLS as a whole. The league needs to be dissolved and completely rebuilt from the ground up. Its a bland uninteresting product with participation trophies handed out left and right with no consequences for failure.
Wouldn't make any difference...
Participation trophies? Like which ones? I agree MLS deserves plenty of criticism but bland and uninteresting is not at all how I’d describe it. You want bland and uninteresting watch the prem 😂 same team wins every year with only a few exceptions.
Your idea to start over is a sick joke and has been tried many times already. In the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. There is NO grassroots community support for soccer in the USA.
@@isaacgogna9856 over half the league gets into the playoffs lol thats embarrassing
@gregorybiestek3431 MLS has killed off 175+ pro teams, most recently San Diego Loyal. But nobody cares about those clubs. Not wholly MLS' fault, since USSF is nominally the head of the sport in this country. But the MLS single entity form is the opposite of pro-rel, so quality is less important than parity.
I think MLS was placing all their money on Messi and Inter Miami to make it to the final. And when that didn't happen, they lost a lot of viewers. A Galaxy vs Miami final would have been nice.
They rely too much on Messi
Here’s some basic solutions to fix mls
1) offer different Apple TV+ plans. For example, you may pay half as much if you only follow your team and only can watch their games. You get no mls 360
2) pul mls 360 under the premium plan of $99 a year
3) make one game a week the spotlight game and have mls 360 go to the match and highlight the match, tailgate etc
4) scatter games on Saturday throughout the day. Putting all at 7:30 means fans can’t watch any other games if their team is playing
100% agree.
Better yet, make the games str for free UNTIL the league achieves better numbers for a following.
As long as the MLS is behind a paywall the sport will NEVER become popular with the general public and will always remain a very niche sport.
For me this one is an aberration because of the SEC Championship playing at the same time. If MLS could have they should have had MLS Cup on a different day. No way they don't lose a ton of casual viewers to a college football championship.
Tennesee-Iowa women's basketball went up against the Big Ten and ACC title games yet still outdrew the MLS Cup Final on the same network. Sorry, the level to which these numbers are bad cannot be ignored. MLS went to Apple because their tv numbers were bad, and didn't want to take a cut in revenue that reflected those poor numbers. Now, when they are on national tv, the numbers are even worse. It isn't a pretty picture.
Nobody ever asks Garber about what a post-Messi MLS looks like! Nothing against Jordan Morris and Alejandro Bedoya but NOBODY gets excited to watch these guys on a regular basis!!
You should not be getting existed to watch Messi at this stage of his career as a player he is in rapid decline, not at the pinicel of his career he is getting more & more injury prone he is not at the hight of his career now let's be truthful about it fans are getting hoode winked buy
The Messi hype, in my view.
Mu biggest problem personally with
M.L.S is Leagues Cup it adds absolutely nothing to the season it's all about the money at that. it's all it's about.
They are in trouble if they don’t figure it out
People have been barking up the "MLS must capture Generic American Sports Fan" tree since 1996. It hasn't happened, it isn't gonna happen anytime soon. You can blame it on Apple TV all you want, but ESPN and FOX have been HORRIBLE partners, and no other networks have wanted them. NBC tried and failed (THAT could have been your "PL and MLS together" fantasy, but NBC dropped MLS like a hot potato once they had the PL). MLS's path to success has been through those hardcore fans, the ones that buy tickets, that's the only path that's proven. Generic Sports Fan is MLS commentators' Great White Whale.
All the networks have the viewing numbers. And they know that no matter the promotion. Its still a locally watched game. Apple doesn't have a tv network to do other cross promotion. Neither MLS or apple are going to pay millions out of pocket to advertise. On other sports networks to draw in viewers. They are still the 3rd most watched soccer league in the country.
they just don’t market it. Idk what they’re doing. Apple was supposed to fix the marketing, but I’ve never in my life seen an MLS add on tv. I had heard of a couple MLS teams in passing throughout my life but didn’t even know MLS still existed after the 90’s until 2022. I’d only ever heard “they started a league after the World Cup and it wasn’t good and people didn’t watch it.” They need a god damn Super Bowl commercial! they won’t capture anyone’s attention because they’ve never tried!
Garber tried to make MLS pay to watch the league, a big mistake. Every market needs a local station to broadcast from for free. Who cares how much they pay, just have a viable 3rd party option to broadcast that gives a FREE option.
The teflon Don knows best! if it works for NFL, it MUST work for MLS, right? RIGHT?
taking games off local markets and lack of advertisement probably hurts the MLS.
Don Garber stated that Apple is the one requesting the Apple TV+ viewing numbers not be shared to the public. There's no detail as to why Apple is doing that, but Don Garber implies that MLS is pushing viewership similar to the NFL, NBA and NHL
Put them back on TV year round. Local TV! I watched my team every single game since their first game in the league on 09 until the apple deal... then have only been able to watch maybe 3 since then... plus it kills casual viewership and doesn't let new fans discover it.
I hear this a lot. People liked the local broadcasts
I have watched LAFC since its inception. Recently I moved to Philly and I have to say I couldn't care less about the MLS final.
I love Reus; that's my guy; but why would I watch that when everyone is watching college football championship games. It's more exciting and more hype around them.
I am for the first time not subscribing for the mls package next year. Frustrating to see how unambitious the league was with Messi. They only invested in that club and nobody else.
To go off my comment. There is no hype around the games because nobody has access to watch their teams or grow the fan bases. Who's going to pay to watch something they don't know they like yet.
Incorrect. Apple TV live view is atrocious. It’s like watching the Jake Paul fight on Netflix but every single week. There only fix is watch it on your phone. It’s the worst production ever. Taylor is there only okay corespondent, barely any coverage. Pre-show is only live when games start😒. Worst experience ever. Just saying.
The simplest change for now could be going back to a 3 week playoff schedule. Nothing is really going on in November so why needlessly compete with the CFB championships? Also I didnt see a single ad for this game/MLS outside of on AppleTV which why would we even need 😭im alr here
Watched a ton more MLS when it was on espn+
I am in my early 50's, I rediscovered soccer after the 2010 World Cup & got hooked on Premier League during the 2011-2012 season. Living in NH the winters are long & cold. Nothing to do outside during Dec through March so I like to watch soccer on the weekends. But come late May, it is nice to get a break for a few months. In 2014 I started to watch NE Revs during their MLS cup run. I got the Apple season membership last year but since the Revs finished so poorly in 2023 and I don't follow other MLS teams I skipped renewing for $100 in 2024. I do not regret my decision. The Apple TV deal is bad for MLS. The games should be available on basic cable without paying a fee.
It’s honestly embarrassing how bad it was. How do we fix it?
Changes need to come to have people more interested. They put all of their eggs into the Messi basket.
If only mls see the way you love the league
game wasn't advertised all that well, fox and espn have always sucked at advertising soccer. the time slot was also awful, 1 pm on the west coast? I had to leave my house around 9am to get to the game to make sure i was in the stadium on time. then you put it up against the biggest College football game on Saturday...
The marketing is terrible
That's because American media despises soccer since there are no ad breaks. Therefore, soccer in the USA has to depend on billionaires and media money. Until 2014 soccer or football was regularly attacked by our politicians, media, etc. as "sissyball" watched only by unpatriotic citizens who should stripped of their rights and deported. Think I am making this up? Google "soccer is a sissy sport".
When "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" and woke weebs in Supporters' Sections across the country collide....
I don’t do apps ! I like easy access. Also cheap access. I’m not paying to watch anything on tv. I can watch epl, spl and Croatian league and Canadian for free !
The only usmnt players that should be coming to MLS should be those nearing retirement like ream and turner. Realistically Americans will never receive the needed recognition and support in the US that we need to grow MLS without our success in Europe. MLS is already broken and it would take major rework, another collapse our the top flight of socver in the US OR we take a note from England and have the top teams create a smaller more elite tier in the US. Puli, McKennie, Jedi, Balo, weah, musah. They all receive valuable playing time at very good teams against too opponents they never would see here. If Pulisic never eent to Dortmund he would never have reached the level he has on our team. Donovan is the exception to the system
Garber is not a man of ideas. MLS needs to push its culture into the communities where they have teams. All Garber cares about is money grab tournaments against Mexican teams, expansion and feeding the pockets of the owners. The hard core fans are already going to the games, which leaves very little to watch at home.
The other thing is the salary cap and weird rules. Teams should be allowed to succeed and fail on their own merits and not based on what the league allows them to do or not do. The push for stars in their prime should be a thing. I know it won’t be easy, but once the stars start rolling in the league will gain respectability with the casual fans and more players will want to play here.
MLS doesn’t need to be the best league in world, but it needs to be the league in the Americas. Every player South of the border all the way to Argentina should see this league as their prime league for a career and success. The problem is Garber is too short sighted and lacks the ambition to see this.
I really want to see Garber go, he did his thing. But he treats the league like it’s still 1996 . We need more ambition.
Garber was good for keep the league afloat but isn’t good for taking it to the next level
I agree with the mentality and ideas but I don’t think you realize that being the best league in the Americas is a completely ball game that is several times harder than the best in North America. It’s not impossible but we would have to compete with the Copa Libertadores which is not an easy task.
The salary cap system in the USA allows sports to operate. There is NO grassroots community of "clubs" for any sport in the USA. As such, each team MUST find sufficient $$$ to operate. If it cannot find that level of support in City "A" it has two choices (1) fold & stop participating or: (2) move to City "B" that will provide it with the support to keep operating. UK teams have travel 25 to 50 kilometers or at most 600 km. Meanwhile in the US teams have to travel 500 kilometers to their closest competitors and frequently up to 4,000 km. For example, in Division II USL Eastern Conference Detroit FC has to travel 1200 km to play Birmingham and four days later 950 km to play Hartford. To play a team in California is 3,000 km away. Because of the small # of fans (tickets) & the lack of media $$ added to the costs of players, facilities, etc. plus the huge travel costs in the USA it makes NO financial sense unless the is a system of salary caps and revenue sharing. in the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. Free market spending, if implemented, really would be the kiss of death for American soccer.
They screwed it all up with the stupid best of 3 crap. When Miami got knocked out the majority of people stopped watching.
If it was Orlando Minnesota fine, but New York and LA? What!!!
Absolutely crazy
MLS need to to know this is a new era the old ways don’t work
Don Garber only knows the old ways
American leagues have a monopoly on their respective sports. MLS does not. it will always struggle because of that. Does not matter what variables you try to change.
I think they have to invest more
The youth pathway is the key..... The US should easily be developing their own players each year..... Target every elementary... Small fields on-site..... Log all kids with talent... Make sure they attend a soccer middle/high school that is attatched to an MLS senior side
The biggest key for developing great soccer players is elementary school recess.... Supuervised pick-uo games.... Easy to manage.... Mass participation..... Then moving to middle/high school they MUST be training with great MLS Mens players at 14/15/16 years old... Everyday
By the time they are 17/18..... A great player will be playing MLS every week
But the key is elementary schools.... Simple... Recess... Surpervised.... Self-governed pick-up games.... Mass participation
I have a sneaking suspicion that 99% of people who have the MLS are already season ticket holders
It kind of reminds me of why I will never EVER get into American Football. Growing up as a soccer fan my whole life I was ridiculed and had my sport berated by football fans. After developing my the soccer way of supporting a club with youth academies, legends that play for your club 10+ plus years, rivalries that are more than just games but are tied to politics and ethnicity I can't support American Football. I can't watch a sport where the general fans hate my sport with a passion. Sure the athletes loves soccer and vice versa but I no intention of giving my money, support and view to a sport that fundamentally hates mine out because it's a sport for pansies or actors.
I straight up will never pay apple for soccer.
I’ll say, as a fan of football living in the US, but not necessarily a MLS fan, I used to tune in more when it was regularly on ESPN or Fox. Could be way off on this, but seems like it’s not on regular TV as much anymore. I know there’s a deal with Apple, that could be contributing to the lower ratings. I wasn’t aware the final was available for free.
Last year I watched so many games when Apple was paired with T-Mobile. I don't support apple so I didn't purchase a subscription. On that same note, I religiously watch Arsenal.
A lot of people don’t want to watch on Apple
Having a 1:00 p.m. final is terrible a lot of soccer fans were probably out there still playing in their local tournament.
I'm a LA Galaxy fan and most of our games start around 7:00 p.m. who are you really competing with on that one Saturday
Apple saw that Yahoo article that said MLS was the company of the year.
In regards to the super team thing, that's exactly why the Prem is dying. The premier League is the Pinnacle of football but only at the top. A league the has 3 possible winners year over year isn't interesting.
People love the Prem because of the history but in recent times the league is dying. All the money Man City has spent has had a very adverse effect on the league. Which is why everyone is happy to see them fall after the Rodri injury
I do think FFP should have simple, clear and inflexible rules so that PL attorneys can't weasel out of them. That would prevent City and before them Chelsea just outspending competitors.
I read today Garber and MLS are working with Apple to change how the league is promoted on Apple. We’ll see what happens
What they fail to realize. Its not about how its marketed in the Apple ecosystem. its how you advertise to everyone outside of it. Local channels did that work for free. But then aApple would have realized. Just like ESPN and FOX. The numbers outside of those local markets suck.
I didn’t catch that. Interesting
Leave Apple that's the first thing.
I have become cynical about soccer in America. I think it will have its day but I don't know what it is. What is it about soccer that just throws Americans off? And don't say flopping or "grass fairies". I got my theories.
Yes, LaBron flopping is actually more annoying! Pro-rel is the answer to the question nobody is asking.
It's time to get rid of Dictator Done been in Power way to long we need some one with new fresh ideas
Unfortunately the MLS isn’t “cool” the players don’t have personalities. As someone new to MLS but watched European ball all my life, the players don’t have persona… you’re right the football is good but except for Messi who is the GOAT but at the end of his career, only one I see is the kid in Philly and he’s leaving soon. You can get into him because he could get better and could be great, Messi already did it all. That’s what MLS is missing imo
Relying on an ageing superstar to hook viewers is illogical in my book - especially if the goal is to grow the league’s exposure LONG term.
As an outsider there needs to be a USP to the league, more jeopardy and narratives in the U.S. game… and yes, I am nodding towards the Pro/Rel debate. There needs to be a compromise.
Also, I think locking the MLS behind a poorly marketed, streaming service isn’t going to do the league any favours short-term.
They’ve even doubled down more than that. Theyre banking on Messi for everything and not gradually growing with him here. What happens when he leaves?
@@MLSMoves MLS and the Saudi league can buy as many superstars as they like, but it’s still no dice for viewership.
An amateur film student could persuade Brad Pitt to make a half-hearted appearance on camera… but the movie is still going to stink.
@@EmsionProductions Promotion/Relegation is a solution to having too many soccer clubs for a given country/market. In the UK every tiny town of 5,000 people has a professional club which may be fine for them but is idiotic to think will be the case in the USA for at least 25 years. UK teams have travel 25 to 50 kilometers or at most 600 km. Meanwhile in the US teams have to travel 500 kilometers to their closest competitors and frequently up to 4,000 km. For example, in Division II USL Eastern Conference Detroit FC has to travel 1200 km to play Birmingham and 950 km to play Hartford. To play a team in California is 3,000 km away. Because of the small # of fans (tickets) & the lack of media $$ added to the costs of players, facilities, etc. plus the huge travel costs in the USA it makes NO financial sense for a promoted team that does not have any money to try & travel 3,000 km every week and not go bankrupt within two years. How long would EFL league teams stay in existence if they had to travel EVERY WEEK to Spain, Sweden, Greece & Poland? They wouldn’t. Perhaps in 25 years the US will have regional leagues each with 20+ teams & limited travel. Once that happens THEN we can talk about pro/rel.
@@gregorybiestek3431 Preaching to the choir.
I agree wholeheartedly that throwing Pro/Rel into the mix with little regard to the fragility of league and clubs + sports culture in U.S. is nuts. However, I think some element of reprucussion for lower level teams needs to be incorporated until some form of Pro/Rel can be added.
I just fundamentally don’t care about a soccer playoff. MLS is a terrible compromise between soccer and U.S. sports structure. Supporters shield makes more sense to me, although I get east/west makes that weird. Abolish east/west, make the league smaller, establish a pyramid and pro/rel.
In the MLS playoffs games should not be decided by penalties but from play. Because penalties are like equalizers , they give chance to weak teams that just need tie in the regular time. In penalties the goalkeepers are the most important players and we do not need that. We need players who are good on the ball to be the most important. So in the playoffs in the 80 min. of the game remove the goalkeepers , but goals should be scored only from within the small rectangle . this will give advantage to teams that have better skilled players. And it should be a sudden death. This will prevent weak teams advancing to the MLS cup.
Overly complicated. Perhaps having the penalty shootout BEFORE the match would add some needed intrigue.
@@r2dad282 some people here in america would like to reduce the socer game to penalties , they think that all that running on the field is just a waist of time.
No one watches because (a) they spend NO money on players, and (b) it is on Apple. No one can get games unless you pay extra for them. It will not happen because of (a).
Mid to lower table European teams in top level spend around 65 million euros in player salary, mls salary cap is 5 million. Wtf…
Just get shot of
this Leagues Cup 💩
& everything will be absolutely fine, that is the biggest problem
M.L.S has it adds absolutely nothing to the season
& is just a way of scamming fans out of hard earned money buy needlessly makeing the season longer than it needs to be.
Its funny to me, MLS is run by an ex NFL executive, and he isn't following Goodell's lead. I don't see anything wrong with MLS having a streamer deal. However, what makes sports work best is when its on free tv, aka OTA tv, that folks can watch via cable or a tv antenna. But MLS needs to find a way to link its tv to both Liga Mx and the EPL, both draw well if not better than MLS. I referenced the EPL and the NFL because MLS had a period when they were on NBC and it worked great and the ratings showed that the EPL was a great lead in. The time difference allows folks to hypothetically veg out in front of a tv all day on the weekend and watch soccer. EPL games could serve as a morning lead in, leading to afternoon and evening MLS games and/or LigaMX games. Thats why the NFL keeps toying with a London team for this exact reason. To me, MLS has an opportunity screaming for it with the CW, its an ota channel with wide availability, and they need content. Same thing, MLS also screwed up by not forcing Apple to have better android integration. Part of the problem is the apple tv or the MLS teams don't have an app that works on android, whereas peacock does.
There should be a push to have mls and liga mx compete in copa libertadores. The incentives that currently exist are not creating quality domestic soccer. If teams are rewarded with a place at a tournament like the libertadores, you should see the quality and fan interest increase.
I hope it happens
8:57 What a lame take by your guest. The reason MLS is not more popular is not because MLS fans are douchey. You answer the question in the next sentence by saying that if MLS provides a good product you are going to come in. Why the ad hominem attack on MLS fans whose crime seems to be supporting the domestic league.
we gotta move leagues cup to january or get rid of it playing into december is killing us playoffs are too long we dont need a wildcard week or round of 3 if we do 16 teams it has to be home and away until the final thats 4 weeks the longer they last, the more people turn off and tell abc or cbs to take the mls tv rights were only getting 25 million from fox if we can get that from either were good and get univison or telemundo to air some games they were playing the scorpion king during mls cup im sure their ratings would be better with a soccer final than a 20 year old movie.
Big names in each team will bring more viewership. Why is the Premier league very popular? Marquee players from all over the world. I used to watch NY Redbulls until they stopped acquiring marquee players.
I am an RSL season ticket holder and can’t stand the MLS. Love my club the league is terrible. The mid season tournament means nothing , the playoff format is garbage. The MLS needs to focus on producing soccer not flashy players and fake competitions
They need to make the league great before doing all this other side show stuff
Develop Young Us Players . Stop buying Aging European Stars
The mls tries so hard to be like the other North American Leagues when it should strive to be unique. I’m realistic about the possibility of pro/rel therefore i suggest be creative on adding stakes. Make finishing playoffs places as challenging as euro clubs finishing in the top 4 places. Implement consequences for finishing in the bottom places like bottom 5 are forces to play in the leagues cup.
That would be interesting. No one would watch leagues cup at that point though
@ if it means getting rid of the money grab excuse of a tournament then so be it. I want mls to succeed and grow in quality but recent decisions, like the Apple deal, have further slowed it. Not to mention I fear the emblem of retirement league is making a comeback.
@@midnightman5139 Promotion/relegation will not work in the USA because teams sent down would lose fans, media coverage and MOST OF ALL money. There is NO community base of support big enough to sustain a relegated team. If relegation was implemented in the USA a team does not get a chance to be better, it would just fold and within a couple of years the entire league. In the US even without relegation in the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. Pro/rel, if implemented, really would be the kiss of death for American soccer.
@ I agree that the sport isn’t popular enough to support relegated teams like other nations. However while I don’t think pro/rel will ever happen I do think we should try to find creative ways to replicate the competitive nature and stakes that pro/rel creates. There should be consequences for finishing bottom of the standings and fighting for playoff places should much more challenging.
We've both said before how the promotion sucks, I mean I knew it was on, but I didn't see anything about it on Apple for most of the week, first thing I saw was the night before, it's another reason they need to let owners spend, im not saying go mad and spend $100m on some player, there's plenty of good players MLS clubs could probably get for about $15m-$20m, they need to spend money to improve the product, I mentioned a few potential guys a couple of videos ago, another guy Victor Lindelof, yes he's been so so at Man Utd, but almost immediately he'd probably be the best CB in MLS
They have to do more than what they’re currently doing or this will never work. Messi can’t save the whole league
@MLSMoves I agree, just hiring players who are out of favour in their current situation, maybe their current manager just doesn't fancy them (Ben Chilwell) or prefers another guy for his system (Djed Spence), would improve the quality of the football massively
Apple TV sucks. The playoffs and final should have been on regular TV
@nerychristian in theory the concept is a good one, I do believe the future is streaming but they've really got to improve how they promote things, if not they'll get left behind
@@mrmr5580 MLS sucks at marketing. I live in L.A. and didn't see any commercials or billboards to announce the final or playoffs
What's looming in this discussion is the Relevant Decision. If foreign leagues start setting up shop in the US- and why not- there are a tremendous amount of dollars to be had from this market- it's lights out for MLS. Liga MX, in particular, could really clamp down the US market , at least as it relates to MLS. What I fear is that MLS is going to do everything it can to merge with Liga MX. As a MLS STH, that would suck quite a bit. I personally want nothing to do with Liga MX. MLS should be trying to effectively kill that league- not joining with it- whether it be LC now or full on merger down the road.
Now, what's the daring answer to all of this? As your guest astutely notes: soccer is not some minor sport here. There are tons of soccer mad fans here who consume a ton of content. But here's the rub: those fans are sophisticated, and frankly, lacking a better word- are worldly in their outlook. These fans KNOW that the best soccer in the world is in Europe and more so UCL. If I'm MLS (and USSF, obs) I'm moving heaven and earth to join UEFA and thus UCL. You get that direct link to the best soccer competition on the planet and then suddenly MLS is second only to the NFL in US. You will have relevance and gobs and gobs of dollars. Dear lord, the UCL broadcast rights alone would be gargantuan if US teams were entered. Every single stud soccer player that is in their prime is suddenly on the table to play in the States.
Like I opened with, the Relevant decision has the potential to utterly gut MLS if UCL matches, which I think is far more likely, start getting scheduled here regularly. (And before the eurosnobs jump on me, as they usually do when I bring this up, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime- I'm 54. But if I'm MLS and I want to counter Liga MX playing half its matches here- you got one move left to make- Europe. Otherwise you'll just be Liga MX adjacent in the US sporting landscape and the larger audience won't terribly care.)
LIga Mx is the top league in the continent. MLS can't even dominate the continental championship here. I'm not sure what makes you think they can got to uefa and compete ther with a salary cap.
I don't know where mls would go if they leave apple. Ideally it would be nbc and peacock but they weren't interested.
Excellent points throughout.
PS. Adam has good points, but… he needs to STOP using the word “like” in between each word. It’s difficult to listen to… like you know, like it’s kinda like grating to like listen to.
Espn is a far superior telecast than fox sports
the problem is it was La galaxy instead of lafc
30 YEARS STILL PLAY ON PLASTIC PITCHES AND WAIT TILL HS GRIDIRON STARTS IN AUGUST................ MEDIOCRE MAN IT HURTS
No messi, RBNY has one of the lowest popular fan base, Galaxy were knowingly the clear fav/winners pre match, apple paywall, other sports going on and time of day
First thing, all the regular fans were probably watching it on Apple, like they did the rest of the year. Secondly, don't schedule during the college football conference championships. Casual MLS fans in the US watch other sports too. Also, the NWSL might pass MLS at this point. They signed a media contract with multiple networks, so I've casually come across games a watched, just because it was on. Also, at least the NWSL you can watch uswnt players and some of the best players in the world, with the possibility of becoming an actual super league, while MLS can't say the same. Lastly, their promotion sucks. In college football, it's advertised all week long the big games gor the weekend, for mls nothing.
Why would they watch mls final when they can watch liga mx knockout rounds, especially with America, and Monterrey was the final.
They had América v Cruz Azul as the semifinal, the MLS never stood a chance
If miami played in the final, the rating would have doubled,
MLS should look to the J-League to see how to not only properly grow a league, but to improve ⚽️ in a country...or in the case of MLS, two countries.
Just as soon as Japan gets 3 more popular, high-profile sports leagues that are bigger than soccer to compete against...
@davepazz580 🇯🇵 had at least two other established popular sports when the J-League started...baseball and sumo wrestling. Still, it managed to grow organically and strategically. The league now basically covers most of Japan, has pro-rel, and is generally thriving. Also, it's helping to produce pretty good players.
In other words, no, Japan does not have at least 3 other big-time sports leagues...
If the only other major team sport in the US was NFL football, *then* we could learn a lesson from how Japan operates its league... but right now, the sports environment between the two is apples to oranges.
@davepazz580 It's an apples to apples comparison. Like the J-League, when MLS started in the 90s ⚽️ was a "foreign sport." The fact that there was one extra sport that was popular in the 🇺🇸 doesn't negate the fact that ⚽️ was at the bottom of the sports pecking order in both countries back then. Also, keep in mind that the population of the 🇺🇸 was roughly *twice* that of 🇯🇵....it's now 2.5 times the population of 🇯🇵. Yet the J-League is generally thriving in 🇯🇵, while MLS is treading water in the 🇺🇸.
Just because both leagues started in the 90's doesn't mean anything...
In fact, the US previously had a top professional soccer league in the NASL which lasted roughly 15 years... that league was a big success for a time, then fizzled out precisely because it lacked revenue-sharing and salary caps (i.e. the model was unsustainable).
Teams in the old NASL were independent entities that were permitted to spend however they pleased (like in Europe) which led to a league full of very few star-studded teams and a lot more modest teams with players not really up to a professional level.
This led to fans of those modest teams hemorrhaging fans year after year until they all started going bankrupt one after the other until no team was left standing.
Fans of those lesser teams simply moved onto whatever next big sport was offered in town and never looked back to the NASL.
So what the US also has that Japan does not is an actual situation where a top professional soccer league was tried but eventually failed... hence, why MLS is a single-entity league with salary caps and an emphasis on all teams having a reasonable chance from day one of creating a competitive team.
Carson Galaxy versus a very low seed. It wasn't competitive and could be seen before it played.
But the Galaxy returned to cup for the first time in 10 years!
Not too worried about TV numbers. They are only one metric to measure the league's growth in popularity. If you track average attendance over time since the league started, it's been a slow steady climb. Excited to see San Diego fill up their stadium next year!
Less than one-half million viewers on Fox is really bad. It is fewer viewers than the regular season Tennessee vs Iowa women's basketball game that aired later that day on the same network.
I don't think it was bad tv rating if add the Fox and the Apple tv ratings it was more than 1 million viewers that's not bad.
It was well below
If MLS wants to move forward the only solution I see is that the MLS owners that are holding the league back those owners need to sell there teams not sure of the 30 teams which owners are but the ones that are need to sell so this league could move forward not stagnate One of those is New England Revolution , San Jose Earthquakes Sporting Kansas City. FC Dallas Philadelphia union and DC United just to name a few then need to sell there teams
The federation just need to enact pro/rel. Let those shitty teams drop to USL. This is the problem when your spot is guaranteed.
@@freeisalwaysme Everyone wants Pro/ Rel but even with the current system, teams are folding every year. In 2023 two USL team ceased operations and a third postponed operations until 2026. In 2024 another USL ceased operations. Until the USA has way more teams on sound financial footing, promotion/relegation will be a solution to a problem of having too many teams does not yet exist in a nation indifferent to the sport. Pro/rel is a great way to kill the sport in the USA.
Is it just me or is the MLS system completely socialist? Seems funny saying its an "American" league when its structure entirely ignores basic capitalism. You and Adam put it perfectly, how America loves soccer but doesnt love the MLS. There is no free market, every team gets paid evenly, and it shows how they havent been able to draw in casual viewers. The "parity" of it all is the exact opposite of how the American and capitalist economies work. A failing team should have to earn their way to the top, not be given reward for it. This also translates to the decline and sporatic growth. In socialism, because there is no competition for factors of production, there is no "market value" associated with it, and the only value you can compare it to is outside pricings. This is the same for MLS, where they are only seeing potential when big outside players are signed and leagues show example. The system is completely unsustainable, especially of how EXTRA conservative MLS is. Throughout all American franchises, they have most of the time focused on maximizing short term profit instead of viewing massive long term gains & sustainability, take the NFL for example. The MLS is at an even lower disadvantage with this because it is culturally behind. Like both of yall said, nobody knows about the League, having the cycle repeat itself. Mls is not going to be able to long term keep itslef afloat unless they start changing things, or possibly somehow people start watching the sport.
All American pro sports leagues are run in a similar fashion... and it's the most sustainable.
The lack of a free market system in the USA allows sports to operate. There is NO grassroots community of "clubs" for any sport in the USA. As such, each team MUST find sufficient $$$ to operate. If it cannot find that level of support in City "A" it has two choices (1) fold & stop participating or: (2) move to City "B" that will provide it with the support to keep operating. UK teams have travel 25 to 50 kilometers or at most 600 km. Meanwhile in the US teams have to travel 500 kilometers to their closest competitors and frequently up to 4,000 km. For example, in Division II USL Eastern Conference Detroit FC has to travel 1200 km to play Birmingham and four days later 950 km to play Hartford. To play a team in California is 3,000 km away. Because of the small # of fans (tickets) & the lack of media $$ added to the costs of players, facilities, etc. plus the huge travel costs in the USA it makes NO financial sense unless the is a system of salary caps and revenue sharing. In the last 40 years the following leagues have folded: The American Soccer League (twice), the National Association League, the North American Soccer League (twice), the United Soccer League, & the USSF Division 2 Professional League. Free market spending, if implemented, really would be the kiss of death for American soccer.
Craziest playoffs i've ever seen
THEY
R K!LL!NG THE SPORT ............. IT LOOKS AWFUL ON TV...... [ CHEAP LOOKING ON TV ]
I think the Battered MLS Fan's take on their most recent episode on this subject was perfect
Didn't catch it yet. I am going on their show tomorrow
NO ADVERTISING ....... MESSI NO PROMOS ...... BEEN HERE SINCE 1996.......
How has the USL championship final gotten more tv viewers than the mls? And with them not releasing Apple TV numbers, possibly a similar amount watched the two finals on streaming, embarrassing
It’s sad tbh. If the numbers were good, Apple and MLS would release them
Because USL didn't lock off access to viewing options like MLS is.
MLS needs american stars. The stars right now are in Europe and will stay there. The american newcomers cant appear if they dont have space in the starting teams. I have only heard about Bright from Miami, did more new great american players appear in 2024. I dont know. The league is too Messi (miami) centered.
They need more stars period. Doesn't matter where they are from. It's not exciting to watch old European players who came over for a paycheck. We need young, world class players choosing MLS. They need get rid of salary cap
I agree with and we talked about it in the video. There is a disconnect with the USMNT fans and MLS
Nope, what is a disaster is clickbait channels like this one. 😒
DOES NOT LOOK GOOD ON TV ................ LOOK AT A BUNDESLIGA GAME ON TV...........
I don’t understand why MLS teams can’t open the books and get every amazing player from wales, Ireland, Scotland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Russia, France to play here instead of in Europe. Wouldn’t these guys rather play in Chicago, ny, Miami, Austin than in Belfast, and Copenhagen.
Because that strategy was already tried back in the 70's and 80's with the old NASL and it eventually led to nearly every team going bankrupt.
THEY DONT HAVE STARS! Real soccer fans know that MLS is third tier level European soccer. Even if a soccer fan watches their local mls team, they are not going out of their way to watch other mls teams because the quality isn’t great. That’s it. Most reg. season games don’t have amazing plays or amazing goals.
They aren't targeting "real" soccer fans (that would be a lost cause anyway)... they are targeting a general sports-going audience that will actually show up to games.
@ seems really hard to build a solid fan base when the people who actually like the sport dont watch it and recommend it to others. its like your making your job even harder. seems like the mls made its biggest jump when it started to copy europe making it appear more legit to actual soccer fans. i dont think we want to go back to the days when they tried to americanize soccer. solution is simple, let the clubs loose to buy any player they want, that will put them on par with top leagues in the world talent wise, then the marketing dollars and attention will come.
The problem with that is the "real" soccer fans will never accept MLS... you could bring every single star over from all the leagues around the world (which could never happen anyway) and they'd all still find something to criticize and keep away regardless.
All these fans are already being well-served by streaming services that show whichever league they want... the only differentiating factor for MLS is a fan has access to actually attending game sin person on a regular basis (assuming they have one based in their city).
Since such fans are already being served in other ways, MLS's focus is more on the typical US sports-going fan (keeping in mind the largest percentage of American sports fans are essentially "multi-sport" rather than single sport die-hards like in Europe)... they are about creating fan bases *specific* to MLS and MLS's way of doing things instead of the sport in general.
The second part of your question when you mention MLS "clubs" is that MLS actually has no real "clubs"... they have "franchises" that belong to a single league - this completely changes the dynamic of everything.
The last time the US had a top soccer league was the old NASL and those teams were actually run very similarly to European clubs (in that they were all fully independent entities with no ties whatsoever to other NASL teams) and they had no salary restrictions and could spend all the money they pleased to sign up any big name they wanted (and they did)...
Then after about 15 years, the entire league basically went bankrupt...
Moral of the story... any US sports league that doesn't use salary caps or shared revenue will start to lose money pretty quickly causing funding from owners much less likely.
Funny to me how people totally forget that US soccer already had a top league in the past and it actually became very big and popular for a short period of time before inevitably fizzing out precisely for the mistakes people want to repeat today (no spending limits, sign a bunch of top stars, be like Europe, etc.).
MLS's single-entity, shared-revenue model is the only reason the league has been around for as long as it has... it would have gone bankrupt yet again if they just followed the old model.
Ok so I think I have a couple answers to your questions. To preface this is my perspective, but I am one of those potential fans that is ripe for the taking. For context I’m a huge Everton fan and USMNT/USWNT fan and I also passively support Ajax and Roma. I watch a lot of soccer, I don’t watch or interact with the MLS. I am going to make an attempt this upcoming season, me and some friends are buying a 4 pack to our local team (NE Revolution) and I plan on buying the game pass on apple, but I really feel like I’m forcing myself to give it a chance. In short here are my general problems with the MLS
1) the atmosphere. I know this varies wildly from team to team, but my local team (the revolution) provides an awful atmosphere. The stadium is too big for the match, the field is artificial turf, the fans are often not very informed soccer fans, it has the vibe of “lets get the kids in the van and bring them to the match” and this is heavily contrasted by die hard fans that while they are very into it just come off as very corny.
2) The product: Getting a big name like messi on the field is cool, but it’s also not interesting. It completely tips the scale of the league. It bothers me so much that every team doesn’t bring on a stud player. It’s bizarre watching messi play against a team like the revs, the level of talent is so vastly different it makes the match uninteresting. It would be like watching Liverpool play a league 1 side.
3) The lack of relegation: To me this is the best thing European soccer has to offer. I hate tanking in sports, it’s dumb and pathetic. Watching Everton fight relegation these past few years has been exhilarating. Seeing teams flounder at the bottom is pathetic, the game needs stakes. The USL and NPSL and UPSL need to be in one system. Watching a team like Luton rise through the ranks gives life to the sport. I think the franchise model of the MLS is the ultimate form of cowardice by the “investing partners”. There should be real risk, it ensures everyone is trying to win. Also by not having relegation it sterilizes the game.
4) The two league/playoff format: it completely americanizes the sport. The format of getting the most points by seasons end is a good format, supplemented by cups it creates plenty of drama, the playoff thing just feels very American. In all honestly I can learn to embrace this, it’s not that egregious it’s just different.
5) A lack of international club competition: the uefa champions league/europa league is exciting and realistically there should be a massive champions league style tournament involving all of the americas, and it should be heavily promoted.
I want the MLS to succeed, but the leadership needs to change, they need to see that this product is sub-par and changes need to be made to make the product more authentic to European football, it doesn’t need to be a carbon copy, but it needs to be less americanized, or the owners need to accept that it is a different and forever subpar product.
1. There actually aren't too many "artificial turf" MLS stadiums... in fact, none come immediately to mind.
The large majority of stadiums use natural grass... or at least, it looks so close to natural grass that it really doesn't make any practical difference in any regard.
3. It's a romantic idea, but that system only works where soccer is the king sport and the national obsession... where fans won't "jump ship" once a team gets relegated because they can easily go watch another big sports team in town and forget soccer entirely (as was the case with the old NASL of the 70's and 80's).
With so many competing sports leagues all targeting the same audience, it's *very* to just drop one sport for another... no US sports league wants to give fans reason to stop watching and condemning them to at least a year of inferior-league soccer would accomplish that very well.
4. Mexico and Brazil both uses the playoff system to determine the league champion...
The problem with the single-table, up and down format is similar to relegation... it would basically mean the majority of teams would be out of the running for the league title midway through a season, which means fans would (again) jump ship.
The playoff system keeps fan interest going longer into a season, as a playoff spot means they will still have a shot at the title.
I believe the playoff system is a good one, but not how MLS does it...
5. There is an international cub competition that MLS teams participate in... the Concacaf Champions League.
*EurostanUsmnt
personally i love watching the sport in europe, but i dont watch mls games and i only really caught miami games because of messi. i live in new york though so i decided to go to nycfc's home game against cinci and honestly, the atmosphere was so dead for a must win game that it kind of put me off. i never felt excited during the game and maybe it was just because i dont have much passion for nycfc in the first place, but i think that kind of energy can be contagious and it just wasn't really there. that isn't to say i won't be going to watch any more games because ill probably go to a few next season as well to support a ny club, but i'm not exactly THAT looking forward to my next visit either. like ill probably enjoy it, but nothing special.
also, personally because i started paying attention to mls after nycfc was founded, i relate more to nycfc because they often use citi field which is in the heart of queens. meanwhile, nyrb is in newark, new jersey and i never liked how the newark airport is considered a new york airport eiher, even though i understood why. so to me, nyrb feels more like njrb so the hudson river derby actually feels more like new york vs new jersey than two new york clubs battling it out like a yankees vs mets. i have a friend who's also into soccer as well independently from me as his family has european roots and this was the reasoning they ended up choosing nycfc over nyrb as well. this is also the reason why i didnt bother watching the final with nyrb either even though im from new york.
I think it will change once they have their own stadium
Are you shocked the most plastic club in MLS after LAFormerChivas has no atmosphere? Most people who are MLS fans are going to be NYRB and Galaxy fans
Keep supporting NYCFC, they will have a new soccer specific stadium next to Mets field in a year.I know, It's hard to be motivated about a soccer team that plays on a baseball field.
U forget to mention that nycfc played against the red bulls in the playoffs ( first time) at citifield ( sold out)
@@fantasyEXX i mean you say that but then you look at the ratings for the final with those two teams and idk. of course i dont know much about the mls so im not going to contest you on that but if the mls is to grow, you're going to get new fans as well. i dont know about the LA situation but i have a feeling people would rather choose a club more easily accessible and is actually in the city than a club in another state.
Don Garber and MLS sucks
Garber does for sure
I agree, he needs to be fired.
Then why r u watching an mls channel? U must have alot of tree time, 😆
Scrap the stupid play offs n change to league format like Europe. This isn’t basketball or hand egg it’s football.
Tell that to Mexico and Brazil...
@ same shit for them aswell, neither are top leagues just like the mls
The point is the playoff system there hasn't diminished the demand of enthusiasm for the game one bit...
You don't see Brazilians on the streets protesting their league format demanding it be like Europe or else it's somehow not legitimate.
For me it was a complete mistake putting MLS behind a pay wall before the league had established itself in the US mainstream. It was growing fast when it was easily accessible. Apple TV has slowed the momentum of MLS growth because it is now on a platform most people don’t watch. The Premier League is now drinking the MLS milkshake in the USA because it is on over the air network TV most weeks and become the most watched league in the USA.
You could understand going to Apple TV if the offered pay a huge amount of money more, but they haven’t and now MLS is getting less exposure in the mainstream media and lower TV viewers.
Should have not put all the games on apple, do what the nhl and mlb do, ( most of their games r regular cable