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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ม.ค. 2016
- Inside the Rohde & Schwarz HMO1202 series HMO1232 300MHz mixed signal oscilloscope.
value.rohde-schwarz.com/vi/val...
Hands on video with the HMO1002: • EEVblog #793 - Rohde &...
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Great tear down Dave and thanks (as always) for taking the time out to look out the data sheets, always fun to pause and catch up on what the specs are.
If Dave saw those solder-mounted BNCs in a lower-cost scope (Rigol/Siglent price range) he'd have rightly gone off about how solder alone doesn't provide enough structural stability for connectors that are expected to have a bazillion make/break cycles over the life of the product.
Man, the user interface alone really sets this scope apart from the rest. I LOVE it.
+Luke Den Hartog that´s propper engieneering....;)
+simontay1984 A good UI needs to be designed. Software to implement the design will be expensive, it needs to be optimized to run well on a low powered computer without interfering with the scope functions, and it needs to be properly tested so it does not crash or, worse, display erroneous results in unusual situations. All that needs to be done by people who know what they are doing, it will take time and cost a lot of money. Scopes do not feel by the millions, so the software cost will add something not insignificant to each. If you are trying to get a device to market quickly and keep the price as low as possible, these are luxuries that you cannot afford.
+Jacques Gilbert I mean 'scopes do not SELL by the millions.'
+Jacques Gilbert Designing a good UI design costs a lot of money. You will need an interactive designer, a graphic designer, a programmer and a tester. They all spend a lot of time. So that's a lot of expensive hours to be paid. But of course you do not have to create a new design for every new scope. But bad or less good designs, compared to this one, like the Rigol ds1054z also cost a lot of money. But that scope still is cheap. Rohde & Schwarz are just not into hobbyist scopes. I like the hardware design of this scope as well compared to the rigol. The rigol looks a bit messy because of the grey lines around the button sections. That my opinion of course.
+InXLsisDeo I almost forgot about the Hameg division. But I'm a bit confuced about the scopes now. What's the difference between the Hameg HMO1022 and the R&S HMO1212? The price is more or less the same. The scopes look the same, have the same UI and have both a 2G/s sample rate and 2MB. I'm actually saving up for a R&S HMO1212. I think it is one of the best low budget scopes you can get now. Really fast and well thought interface with a clean hardware design. I akso like the latest video of Dave about the fast and good FFT. Compares with the other brands. I know its something between my ears, but if they turn out to be the same scope I would by the R&S version.
Great info Dave. It shows design choices made to produce a great scope. Your tear down videos perform a great service for engineers as well as teachers of product design. I never get tired of it.
Super videos.
73's 9M2SN
Fab teardown Dave. Fascinating stuff, and what a gorgeous piece of engineering design.
Thank you. I love your reviews.
i count it out : 76 times "realy nice" and "thumbs up" and "great" and "nice" , " gourges engineering" , "the best"- 2 and Bob´s your oncle" smash it out Dave! i like it, thanks
Yep, that really worked. It was shipped a few weeks later... :-)
I bought an ex-demo unit HMO2024 that was shipped straight from Germany by R&S. 4 channel, 200MHz for under 2k€. Been loving it
It´s the same thing as happened to the TV-sets 30 upto 20 years before....first these things had been filled with electronics, the last ones with picture-tubes had nothing in it besides a tiny board right on the base of the pic-tube which doin all the stuff in two components...a big PLCC and a penta/multi-watt which contains all the video driving stuff...
Now the same thing happens in these scopes....I bet in 10 years we have nothing but one chip and the analog frontend inside anymore....
I also remember the first MicroWave synth beein full of components on various boards - as the lastest incarnation just had an nearly all empty 2U rack mount with a power supply most right and a 80x100mm multilayer PCB on the leftmost....went out with the same prizeTag on it, of course....;)
You've never sounded so in love like this time!
Awesome video!
I understand why they do it, but it feels wrong to pay 700$ just for a version where the software has a value that says 300 instead of 100
Although obviously this scope is going to have excellent performance etc, I can't help feeling that like all other modern era scopes, it looks toy like compared to old school CRO's! The high end CRO's just looked serious and truly carved from solid!
I'd love to see a video of the Rohde & Schwarz HMO120xx engineering teams watching this video.
Impossible.
Rape-Videos are illegal in Germany.
@@thekaiser4333 ahhm, nope
@@paulnero3885 - Yes they are. Rape-videos fall under "Gewaltverherrlichung", StGB.
@@thekaiser4333 wo wäre da Gewalt geschweige denn Gewaltverherrlichung?
@@paulnero3885 - Dies ist ein Australischer Kanal. Also aus Höflichkeit und Rücksichtnahme gegenüber unserem Gastgeber und den australischen Lesern auf Englisch bitte!
Obviously you have not watched this video here. This is clearly a Rohde & Schwarz RAPE-VIDEO or as we in Germany say Ein Vergewaltigungsfilm.
Gewalt is already in the very word there. Is it not?
You are not very bright, are you? And, judging from your German comments on an English speaking channel also quite rücksichtslos.
I really like the step by step on screen guides. It's very un-German of them to do. It's between this and the Keysight for my next oscilloscope.
I'd say the reason the fan is on an angled tab is to put a bit of space between its blades and the case grille to reduce/eliminate noise at the fan blade passing rate.
made in the czech republic, just like the best porn in the internet!
+Fekete Imre spot on bro
+happy543210 And how are you aware of this?????
+happy543210
like PZ-IV
when quality counts, give her the kronor
Would have used Prusa as an example but just have to take your word on it.....
There are so many cool little touches on that thing that just show you why your paying that extra, Wonderfull.
The UI is nice, i still see a few things that need to be improved the highlighted items are a bit high contrast , little bit of wasted space at the bottom , but compared to most things its top notch.
8:39 - 'Fess up, David. That shielding is to keep the electrons from falling out!
The Atmel SAM says in its datasheet that it has a 400MHz to 1GHz PLL for the system and a 480MHz PLL for USB. So R&S could be using the system PLL to drive the PLL chip for the ADC Clock.
May the Schwarz be with you.
+Mari Onette Schwanz, sir! Schwanz!
+Thomas Coughran Make sure you pay attention to the Rohde ahead.
0:49 The worlds first DSO that can play TH-cam videos ;)
Seriously though, give it 10 years and it wouldn't surprise me.
would you mind to consider to show what happen when you try to analyze a 5.8 Ghz wave signal with an apparatus like this one ???
Hi Dave! Video --- beauty!
I am kind of curious, do you wear ESD protector ESD strap while doing the teardown? Why don't you mention before the video that this is important, lest people would love to kill their devices? :) Thanks!
This scope seems great. Almost makes me want to trade my DS2072A Rigol for it. Wish you touched on the LA decode options.
Logic inputs look like they may already be LVDS - is there an external active probe?
+mikeselectricstuff Keep watching.
+EEVblog It's exciting to watch and hard to keep the fingers still until it's finished.. happend to me sooo many times
As you don't read/reply to pm, I hope you get to read this at some point.
I love your "Teardown Tuesday" especially the "671 white van speaker scam teardown" and I hope you make more Teardowns :)
What a scope !
Yolo, Siglent will be making a scope just like this soon for 1/3 the price since they didn't have to do all the engineering.
Yolo, I would probably buy that
Does anyone know why my posts cause other posts to be backwards?
+jak p (skiguy09)
yolo, I concur, but there will be rust on the frame and firmware is going to suck
You guys! ;)
+jak p (skiguy09) YOLO, and they gonne put a nordinary fan inside, just smashed on +5/gnd..which soon went loud as hell...but we know it´s like YOLO...;)
Excellent video, but I would have liked to see the duty cycle on the "quick view" feature...
I need this, but without any software bandwidth/sample rate cripple "features". Beauty! Could that empty internal space hold a "glove box" for probes/leads/accessories?
+FindLiberty It could have!
I liked the aesthetics of the R&S scope.
Thanks for this, Dave. Have you any feedback on the RTC1002, please?
Question, is the filter setting something like a software defined band pass filter ? because that would be kind of cool; though I can't think of a use for it but it sounds cool XD
Would love to see teardown/review videos on the R&S RTH Series Scope Rider Handheld Oscilloscopes.
Neat little beast. Like GUI too. Most of vendors kinda skip GUI importance, so R&S is nice refreshing break of this "rule". Used R&S siggen before, UI was great too.
Which camera did you use to make this video? Close shooting of PCBs is brilliant
Love your channel - and actually you gave me the inspiration to start my own channel.
But Dave, this video confirms your love for the money scopes where you ignore things you bash on others. I watched your Instek review, then this one - and you white wash characteristics that you scoff at on the lesser dollar scopes. Like all the open space in this one. I make this comment because I like your channel so much. Thumbs up anyway;)
lol who downvoted this vid already? It's as if there are people who specifically use their time to watch videos they don't like.
I didn't really have any expectations for this scope since I'm really lusting after the RTO series from R&S, but wooow honestly very impressive. So impressive that I think I may actually get one. The small form factor, silent fan, ultra fast turn on time, and the brilliant UI... so nice for jobs where you move the scope around a lot. High-res modes and all the "visibility" options are great. 2 channels is perfectly fine. Also neat to find a Cyclone 4 inside; that's one of the beefier variants with extra IOs. I enjoy working with Cyclone 4's and 5's, nice chips. ISSI never disappoints either. Great job Dave and thank you for your work as always.
+whatlions
I'm not as gaga over the fan. Any high end instrument should have quiet fans. I complained to Keysight about the noise of the 34410A, it had this incessant wine, but the 34465a is so quiet I have to strain to hear it.
Rob
mosfet500 Well to be fair the degree of necessary active cooling depends on the instrument. This is a relatively low end unit and doesn't have significant heat dissipation (note the lack of heatsinks on the chips, even). High-end oscilloscopes are all super loud, and it's not a matter of fan brand but just the requirement to move enough air due to massive combined heat dissipation of various parts. That said, R&S still has to be given credit for efficient software and hardware design, so that all temps are low enough to allow the fan to spin slow and silent. I will agree with you that if the instrument is relatively high-end and can support slow fans by design, then there's no excuse for not making it as quiet as possible. :)
+whatlions Also size. A larger instrument can have a larger fan, which can turn at a lower speed to move the same amount of air. That helps keep things quiet. Small size is currently more in fashion than quiet operation, so many designers sacrifice sound quality to get the size and weight down.
I love R&S. They are a very conservative proper German engineering company, I believe it is still owned by the original founder(s) families. They can be difficult to deal with sometimes - but their quality is difficult to beat.
I use a ton of their stuff in Broadcasting (both processing and measurement equipment) and it's just bullet proof. The main reason why we sometimes spec out other vendors is budget, otherwise if the client can afford it we just set and forget it (well as much as it is possible for today's digital tech).
This would be nice for embedded programming i guess, and looking at your digital communications, does one save their money, skip the rigol and buy this to go with their jbc soldering iron. Does the miser pay twice?
Scope looks really well designed, BUT I don't like the ultra-bright LEDs behind some of the buttons. It looks as if they're going to sear your retinas. Also, the slope LEDs are bleeding through into the trigger indicator LED. That's not so good.
So I am confused, now it is ok for them to use spade connectors for grounding but in the other review you wouldn't leave it alone saying it was poor?
+electricsnut I agree. Even though on this gear the spade connector is done right, but if it had been another manufacturer Dave would have said he preferred a screw and shake proof washer.
+Jack White Yup, while I do enjoy these tear down reviews... I can pick within the first 5 minutes which way any of these reviews are going to go. Dave seems to form an initial option about a product immeditely before it starts and that guides his attitude through the rest of the review.
+electricsnut This and exactly this. I like these but it's kinda annoying to watch him being so biased.
We should ask Dave to tear down a Mercedes or BMW.
For my part I'm happy to be subjected to the bias of a man with Dave's knowledge and experience. Unbiased opinions are only useful in textbooks as far as I'm concerned.
Is a Tektronix 547 Oscilloscope still viable? I managed to pick one up from a warehouse but I'm still new to the whole electronics scene. I know its old, but will it still serve the purpose?
I guess the fan is at an angle so you can't short it's air supply out by blocking the vent holes in the case?
Or the fan leads were a bit on the short side...
It’s probably to step it away from the plastic grille of the outer cover to avoid an air rushing noise.
Awesome :)
Could it be possible to get a video about essential lab tools?
Good stuff. Little bit older components base, but design like a for always.
R&H still the best.
Dave, that tune you're whistling during all fast forward stuff, is it indiana jones? :D
the slope leds could use some dividers to stop light bleed
Ahhh
R&S HMO1202. That's going straight to the pool room!
The crystal is probably inside the Altera module if it's a packaged module, not a single IC.
Only two channels is really a bummer when debugging a signal path. Three is really the minimum.
Definitely looks like a well designed and well built scope but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's 3 times better than the Rigol to justify the price difference :) It probably is more a matter of choice (when money is not an issue)
and until today I rarely/never sees Dave utilize this DSO in most of his vids
Very good video.
Didnt know Rhode & Schwarz has a factory over here in CZ.Rep. And greetings to Hungary for a nice fan and also other nice stuff coming from Hungary...
I just like the fact that it has the older analog oscilliscope dimensions :-D
Yes im an old bastard lol.
at 2:29 - Just under the handle there is a rectangular piece of plastic with what looks like finger grips. Any idea what those are for?
+cemx86 It's a space for interface modules. For instance, the 1022 comes with the USB/RS-232 remote control module HO720.
Well jelious of you Dave. These companies send you excellent gear to play with. Do you ever get to keep them or do you send them back after you're done?
+Steven Choi Some I keep, some I send back. This one is technically on a 6 month loan, but they might eventually just write it off.
You've been in like Flynn it should be worth twice as much now
+EEVblog hahaha me thinks only if Richard gets very very drunk..
@@EEVblogTo be honest, i ressent these companies sending you free expensive equipment, it's just not fair for the rest of us. I understand they'd loan it to you or give you a couple hundred dollars vouchers but free ?! That's just wrong and makes me think i'll pay for your free scope if i buy one and makes me not want to buy from the brand.
Great teardown. Makes me wish I had $2000 for a scope!
Hello, I didn't know that there are scope manufactures in the Czech republic, although I live there 😊
Hey Dave ,Le Croy 64XI teardown?
Looks like there was a lot of off the shelf IC's, I didn't see one custom ASIC or VLSI. Rohde & Schwarz make some Very Complex Instruments, world class stuff if you ask me. Great teardown Dave somehow you stayed with the program and not run off on a tangent. Any word from Siglent on their new SSA3032X, would really like to see that puppie. It looks quite impressive, but their no full reviews out there or on TH-cam. Keep your electrons flowing and don't get shorted {:>)
Oh Ya just tweeted Siglent to get you an SSA3032X
+T Komoski I heard it was delayed due to a design issue or something?
+T Komoski: seems like this scope was developed by Hameg (before R&S bought Hameg)
In the beginning of the video, when I saw the price i was like
"It better give some value for the money... god that's expensive!"
And hmm... it does. If you consider that it's going to be used in production environment where time's money etc.
For hobbyist... no way :D
Very very nice Scope
9:40 I've seen Clive tear down cheap eBay crap that has marshalling boards; other than the via stitching, there's really nothing special about that board bolted to the power supply.
Whoa - did I see gigafarad caps on that line trigger section of the PSU daughterboard?
Line triggering generator board won my heart
Hi from Czech republic too!
I think the way the fan is mounted looks bad. It looks like they did that way to compensate for the short fan leads. If this were a UNI-T that would have been made fun of for sure. I like the fact that they put the power supply in the metal box. It is nice and neat.
Dave,
I'm also impressed with these scopes. I just looked at the HMO3032 and they include bus decoding - very nice! But isn't R&S now owned by Hameg?
Rob
+mosfet500: little Hameg was purchased by huge Rohde & Schwarz
+mosfet500 No. R&S integrates Hameg since around 2012 and finished it this year.
+WattSekunde
OK, so this and things like the HMC8043 triple power supply are really low end R&S "value line" products. Who's designing them Hameg or R&S because if you look up Hameg they show this scope?
Rob
+mosfet500 Design as well as production and service are all done by R&S now.
+Rohde Schwarz Thanks for the info!
Rob
Can someone recommend me a good portable or small oscilloscope that isnt super expensive?
I think Dave should tear down a mid tear scope from R&S. Tearing down this low end model proved little.
Wow, that fan was made in Hungary, I have something to be proud about now XD
This scope makes my pants tight Dave. Very tight. Might have to get serious about getting one.
10:18 Fan made in Hungary. Hi Dave, from Hungary! :)
regarding the "best design and built scope I've seen", you are wrong, you've seen a similar design in your Agilent 4000 teardown :) you were asking to let you know if you're wrong :)
I have just been reminded that on youtube you can not only add subtitles yourself but have the ability to enable other people to send in (and approve) subtitles in other languages. Do you think that might be an idea for viewers not so fluent in english? You can probably retroactively enable it for older videos too, I am sure lots of viewers are willing to spend some time adding subtitles in their native languages.
flamin ell dave i damn near choked on my potato waffle when i saw the price of that!
Interesting that the name label on the scope has the same font as Agilent/Keysight gear...
I'm a bit stumped with the function generator on this unit. I'm trying to calibrate a selfmade series 500 microphone preamp (it works - just needs final gain and distortion calibration), but for some reason I'm not able to output a standard sinewave 1kHz signal using the aux output and a bnc to xlr cable... what am I doing wrong? I've crimped the bnc connector to one end (red/signal to center pin, ground to crimp barrel) , soldered a male xlr plug to the other and bridged pin 2 (red/signal) & 3 (white/inverted signal) while having my ground connected to pin 1. No matter what I try, I can not get a reading in my daw. Maybe someone can give me an idea of what I am missing here.
Hi Dave, just took a look at this, I see the "HM" infront of the model number, following HAMAG tradition, I know R&S took over HAMEG for sure this unit is VERY tidy inside & designed very well :), impressive unit, cost is humm a little high in price I personally feel, knowing how cheap the early "HAMEG range" was when it was HAMEG. but I guess now its R&S, the only thing I hate to see is a battery on a PCB, leakage can cause big problems as we all know, perhaps a buffer to the FPGA from the outside world might have been better protection for the FPGA ?, only personal preference would have liked to see nuts on the BNC to prevent less movement on the PCB joints,
Maybe I am way too late but as far as I Know, the Coin cells have non corosive liquids in them and the leakage is minimum even after a lot of time
can someone tell me what knind of diode emits light (but not LED) . It's inside a stereo amplifier (there's about 5 of then in different locations)
+kiss peter Sometimes LED's are used as voltage references for certain power rails (normally rails feeding op-amps). Certain LED's can be less noisy (and cheaper) than equivalent zener counterparts.
So it is a led ....well it emits light , but i would have never guessed . Thaks for the imput .
If their low-end scope is like this I wonder how their high-end scopes look like. Dave contact Rohde & Schwarz and ask for a high-end one to teardown/review.
+InXLsisDeo And seeing it being constructed in the factory is even more mind blowing. This is what I call science
@9:27 the pcb ontop of the psu
Far right side, is that an QR code? tried to scan it but it's too small :(
And if it's a QR, what does it say? And why the heck do they have a QR on that little pcb in the first place?
+Osmosis production PCB tracking...
+Osmosis That's not a QR code, my guess is it's probably some sort of internal part ID code in the form of a 2D bar code.
+Osmosis It's a data matrix code. The standard android barcode scanner was able to read it for me, after inverting the colors. It just has a number, which I think is the same as the barcode next to it.
Hungarian cooling fan :)))) Yeeeeeeeah! Well done eh? Greetings for all Hungarian visitors :)
+BMR Studio Similar to the whole device. Papst (now ebmpapst) fans engineered in Germany, made in Hungary. Even back around 1990 when I assembled my first computers, Papst (engl. "pope") fans were the top brand.
Hungarians are good on assembly. They like the German precision.
+BMR Studio One of them looking the video right now :). Didn't know we had such a great fan brand made in our country. I was just looking for a good 4 cm fan for my front side bus, but I think I got the brand :). May get it cheaper, but I doubt it, might have to get it from China or something on ebay :(.
+András Kiss Remelem tudsz kapni Magyarorszagon :)
+BMR Studio Do they make fans for PC and CPUs?
you always complain if the ground is not held down with nut and shake proof washer but was happy with spade terminals?
Hello brother, you are crazy, good video!
Nice scope.
Simplistic means treating something complex as if it were much simpler than it is - I don't think you meant that when describing the front end.
Is there any particular reason why the displays on oscilloscope are always (at least from what I can recall on your channel) on the left?
+YTN3rd Most users are right handed, so it's natural to put the controls on the right.
+YTN3rd Most people are right handed, so you don't want to have your arm reaching across the scope screen. Although if probing and operating at the same time I often probe with the right hand and operate scope with my left hand.
+EEVblog Have you ever come across a left handed oscilloscope, or are they as rare as the left handed screw driver?
+YTN3rd Yokogawa DLM2000 perhaps?
Woo, Zilog fan boy here!
Hello. Please help in choosing between:
OWON XDS3104AET
Rohde & Schwarz RTC1002 MAX
Rigol MSO5074
If I had enough money, I'd always buy a Rohde & Schwarz. They have now a good offer, a RTC1k-COM2 Scope with RTC-B223 300 MHz bandwidths upgrade for a few bucks, at least here in Switzerland for CHF 1500.--. Google it.
Is it just me or are the teardowns of junk and scrap tier devices more interesting than well made ones?
Wooo! Finally, they didn't cheap out on the fan or the PSU and capacitors! Smexy XDDD
At 20:00 you can see a lot of wiggly PCB traces from one of the sockets. Why did they do that? Why not just a straight line?
+MacPhantom Its for timing. Keeping the trace lengths the same.
+Ron Shaw Excellent; thanks a lot for the explanation. Makes sense if you're dealing with these kinds of frequency ranges.
Czech Republic rules! :D
Hi to you too, Dave. :)
+VitekST - Vlogy, programování, ... You may know a company called MEATEST. Pretty nice calibration stuff made in Czech Republic.
+Chip Guy Vids Yup, I know about them quite some time, although I am a kid, at least from info what's online, they make great stuff.
nice scope.
So R&S actually live up to their reputation. That's nice to see, but €1800 isn't really in my budget.
Cool video.
What a Bobby Dazzler !