We Put An 180mm Enduro Fork On An XC Bike! | Why NOT To Over Fork Your Bike
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- One of the most common questions we receive here at GMBN Tech is people asking if they should run a bigger fork on their bike. Sometimes this is fine, and other times this can be dangerous so we really don't recommend trying this yourself! (Check with the frame manufacture before making any changes as it may void any warranty or in some cases it could increase the chances of snapping a head tube off!)
Rich from @gmbn was our test pilot for this experiment and explains how it feels both climbing and riding downhill 🤘
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Have you fitted or travel adjusted your fork? - Please be sensible and follow guidelines from the frame manufacture as safety is really important (especially around the headtube area!)
GMBN Tech friend of me swapped out forks. First ride he broke the fork in two. Luckily without injuries....
Don’t work on things like this if you have no clue.
Yes. 180 to 200 on an old dh. 140 to 160 trance 2 with a 140 to 152 adjustment to the back. I plan to do something stupid like a 160 on a 120mm bike in the near future. Starting with 66 degree head angle.
@@kyleslater5245 I have a 160 on a 120 too
I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm. It felt great but the next day i discovered massive cracks in the headtube, If I rode it again I would have snapped the headtube off.
UMF Dirt Kick (16,5") and a Rock Shox Domain 302 180mm fork.
I ride it so a year ago and still no sign of weakness. Of course, except on uphills, not so fun, as downwards. :)
As Sam pilgrim would say "it's the dream"
"welllll goood!"
to the sky
Thats mega
And here we go
@sampilgrim
didnt really convince me that it is a bad idea. sounds pretty fun
180 on a 100 frame is undoubtedly a bad idea, but something like a 140mm works really well on most 100m xc frames and makes for a super fun ride.
I look forward to seeing your Steerer tube shear on next weeks Friday Fails.
RaggleFraggle! Haha
Same
Look in the description
LMAO that actually doesn't even look that weird... however I think they should have started with a 120-140mm travel bike.
If you sit on this bike your fork travel will switch to less than 160mm and your head tube angle will fly out of the window. 120-140mm works only with full susp. bikes.
MrKansai1 teghe false, there’s plenty of 140-160 hardtails out there. The Honzo ESD and the Ragley MMMBOP and the commensal meta HT AM come to mind.
@@shoeonhead I disaree this is exactly the Bike many many people have and then Ask If a 180mm fork fits
@@shoeonhead I never said there is no 140-160mm HT on the market. Still, if you have a 67' head tube, and solid, mountains-ready amount of SAG you will lose 4cm=2' out of your slack bike right when sitting on it. That makes your bike an XC with no slack at all 69' angle. Not to mention the case when you will hit anything with your front wheel. The same SAG in full-susp. bike will give you your regular head tube angle because rear susp. will compensate.
There's no point on using 120mm fork, that works pretty well most of the time. 130-150 would've been a better choice, you're adding to up 50% more travel, that's a lot anyway.
100mm vs 180mm Before & After Numbers:
Head Tube Angle - 70 to 64 degrees
Bottom Bracket Height - 305mm to 327mm
Wheelbase - 1119mm to 1200mm
Bar Height - 1042mm to 1100mm
Seat Tube Angle - 73 to 68 degrees
Sounds like advantages to me
@@rcdaily8754 Not for climbing.
Rule of thumb overforking 20-40mm depending on the base platform and additional mods, is fine. But obviously jumping 80mm is testing an edge case.
10:15
So you hit your pedal because your BB was higher?
What?
Because he bottomed out
@@honkytonkinson9787 he was nowhere near bottomed out when hit the pedal.
Even if he was, how would his bb be any lower than it would if he bottomed out a 100mm fork?
Jimskateuk I guess that makes him a liar and me an idiot
@@honkytonkinson9787 just looked like a general mistake, pedaling when he shouldnt be, didnt appear to have anything to do with the fork lol
XC guys lol.
I know a guy who got a Boxxer on a short travel Specialized trail bike that used the bike for XC rides.
Better title would be:
WE PUT 180MM FORK ON XC HARDTAIL SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO
bro I want too
Bro, now i have to
Got it so need to go greater than a 180mm.
GMBN needs to have another Presenters challenge; $1000 bike (new) and $500 to upgrade as much as they can. Not only entertaining, but this is probably what alot of new Mtn bikers would do anyhow. Buy a bike, ride it for a while, and then look to upgrade parts later
I’ve changed my stock 120mm fork to a 140mm, and it’s the sweet spot where it’s made the bike more capable downhill, without sacrificing too much in other areas.
twinnedsuns Treks website says I can’t put anything more than a 120mm on my Roscoe. Is this BS? Would a 130 or 140 hurt it?
@@VantagePoint2 it can hurt your frame generally, some frames are not designed to take that much tense on the head of frame
it can simply crack in time; however + - 20mm is usually pretty ok from the stock fork made for your bike
Me too! I upgraded my fork to 140mm from 120mm stock. Made it livelier on downhills. I hesitated on choosing 150mm because it changes the HA to 65 degree.... way too much degree in difference from stock imo
Ksea Spotting You’d likely void your warranty.
@@ostankovalex1176 Complete bullshit unless its a double bracelet dh fork theres no way to have "more stress" on the frame bc the tiny tube thats the fork is supported by is the first thing to snap. And more angle is more fun.
GMBN: This is a No-Go
Sam Pilgrim: Hold my Mon-ey
I have a similar bike and I replaced the 100mm suntour fork with a 120mm rockshox recon and it made a massive difference with no negatives from what I can tell.
100mm travel fork on a full enduro bike video next please @gmbn 🤣🤟
do a DH fork!!!
Have a look at pilgrims channel for that kinda steeze fella. Boxxers on a drop handle an he sends it!!
This is basically dh only 20 more mm needed
@@smashyrashy a 180 single crown isn't even close how a double crown feels....
my 2nd hand giant xtc cross country bike came with a dual crown downhill fork on it lol
@@tripmogames absolutely agree, now that ive got a bike with Fox 40s my enduro with 180mm 36s feels flimsy and looks anorexic. difference is as clear as night and day
It's all good putting a 180mm travel fork on a bike designed for a 100mm travel fork and it was an enjoyable video to watch but the problem with doing such a conversion is that nobody is realistically going to go to that extreme, it would be nice to have a bit of a follow up video where you put a bigger fork on a bike but within what people may actually consider doing (eg: fitting a 150mm fork on a bike designed around a 120mm or 130mm)
I beef up my headset to put a 120mm fork on my On One Scandal 100mm geometry. So far it's been 10 years and the bike still holds.
*laughs in fox 40 on hardtail*
: 0
Dirt jump + downhill fork is a great combination
Can't complain about seat tube angle if you haven't bothered to slide the saddle all the way forward to compensate! Or even tipped it back to level by the looks...
Would massively shorten the reach doing that!🙄
Rupert Wenn reach is the distance from bottom bracket to stem and has nothing to do with seat position 🙄
Exactly mate. Look how slanted back the seat tube angle is of many full-sus bikes.
@@rupedog So the move is to over-fork an xc-bike thats a few sizes too big then, no?
Bradley Burns The STA steepens as the suspension sags.
This is the video I was waiting for when I was starting mountain biking 😘😂🤙. Thanks GMBN Tech 🤙🤙🤙
wtf you wont put the numbers all toghther so we can compare them?
Bad editing!
GCN and GMBN have gone downhill so fast. First video I've watched in months, and its trash. Chris Opie makes some great content now that he's free from GCN, road and MTN.
Not much to remember!!
@@rupedog How hard would it have been to put both numbers on the screen and the difference? maybe a minute? Pure laziness because this video wasn't a sponsor spot.
@@DougTheSnowMan Sorry to hear that! We didn't feel this video needed stats up at the end as it's not as technical as some of our other content. We will bear this in mind for next time though.
I love overforking. A long time ago the most fun bike I had was a random hardtail on which I put a 200mm Junior-T. I rode street with that. As crazy as it sounds, I pulled my biggest bunny-hops ever with that setup.
I have a 2009 Rocky Mountain Vertex10 and put a 150mm Fork on it last year with beefy Tires and its great fun to ride even in bikeparks and kind of jumpy, i love it and was great to "revive" the old frame. Put XT and XTR 2 piston Brakes on and works good even with 160mm rotor in the back.
Someone needs to a 250mm rear shock on a bike with no fork
GMBN did a video a bit like this (not 250mm though) 👉 gmbn.eu/hardnose
Awesome thanks for making this video! Learned alot! My gravity bike is almost identical to this canyon. I've kept the hardtail frame but have upgraded about everything else on it. Its been fun adding parts to upgrade it in ways that best suits my style. Im not just a downhiller. This video helped me on a decision on a bigger fork thanks guys!
lose the spacers under the stem and flip it for negative rise and you'll lose nearly all the negatives of the bar height increase.
Yea
Apart from a slack seat tube, loss of rear traction and less headtube strength on a bike tested to that size fork. So actually all you gain from flipping the stem and removing the spacers is a lower, more hunched over stance on the bike.
@@stanp2281 Sounds like someones jealous of all that 180mm lol
Seb T no I just know how geo is more important than travel. I don’t think I’d be jealous of 180 on a budget xc hard tail when I have a 150mm trail bike.
But that would take away the negative bias and lack of perspective that they were after...silly Mike.
Thank you 🙏 @GMBN Tech for you video, it was entertaining. I especially liked the whoops with the 180. It was extreme to go for a 180 Lyric when as you say in the film a 140 would add so much without being ridiculous.
I have done something similar to my old hard tail, bought back in 2010 and just recently went crazy and put a not so massive 130mm 29” fork and 29” tire on the front. Stock was 100mm 26” tire. Moved my head tube angle from 70 to 64 . The thing makes me giggle with joy especially how lofty the front is, climbing is a little wonky but I love everything else. Not much climbing on my local trails.
I'm suprised how rideable it remained with a nearly twice as long fork. I am planning to switch my crappy 100mm XCM fork to a 130 or 140mm one and I was afraid it could be too much but it looks like going from 100 to 130 on an XL sized frame can't hurt.
I put a 160mm rock shox 35 gold rl on my trek roscoe and absolutely love it
Did you notice any affect on the climbing or handling? I have a Roscoe too and thinking on doing the same
I used to ride an early 90s Mt Shasta hardtail. At one point it had a Rockshox Judy XC which probably had something like 50-80mm elastomer dampened travel. I don’t remember. It had the rubber boots on the stanchions and I recall that in the end the elastomer poured out of the lowers as a powder. Upgraded to a K2 fork in the early 2000s with 90-100mm travel or so. Probably at least 20mm or more extra travel. The difference was massive. So much more rideable. The Judy was just pathetic. Better than a rigid, but barely. Later I put on a Rockshox Dart which was 100mm and it had a couple extra spacers worth of steerer too. That fork was even more comfortable than the K2 and I could still climb just fine. But now my jaw wasn’t rattling out of my head because shocks were much better 20 years on, imagine that. Since I don’t know exactly how much travel I had originally it’s hard to say what the mm change really was. Could have been 80-100 or 63-100 or even 50-100... that original shock died 15+ years ago so it’s hard to recall. But in any case slackening the bike out and raising the front end with a change of between 20 and 50mm almost brought the bike reasonably into the 21st century. Almost. I can’t think of a downside. Of course, that bike started about as steep and short as any bike ever built so I think there was quite a bit more room for slackening than a modern xc bike. The best part honestly was every upgrade made OTB less likely. And if you’ve ridden a 90s XC bike you know that it’s almost like riding a roadie with drop bars.
Love the vids guys🤙🏼
Enjoying this channel. I picked up privately, my first off road Marin with, I guess, a stock Spinner Grind fork (100mm.) and I'm humming and hawwing about changing the fork. Though not sure it's worth it, though my LBS thought it was worth giving it a good tune-up. All this is great skinny. Thank-you!
This review should continue on, please make adjustments, to mimic original geo... Lower stack height, lengthen stem ( no rise, or negative), possible angle set to offset longer fork, and if all else fails try a reverse mullet.
I have a 24" hardtail I just put a 27.5 front with some fox 38's and it is actually amazing
This looks like wicked fun honestly. I might do 160 than 180, but still. My fork is 120 stock.
I'm currently switching from my bikes stock 120 to a 160, should make it alot more fun
Berserker Nick let me know how it feels? I’m waiting till this fork dies before I replace it I think. It’s a Rockshox Reba.
@@DavidMaruca_ They don't die. Also, it makes the BB higher, messing up handling. On a straight line trail, it should be brilliant. Otherwise, it's going to be a mess.
Don’t go more than 20mm over stock length. Axle to crown is the real thing to check though.
I've got a Chromag Stylus with a 160mm dual air Lyrik on it. The geometry change when flipping between 160mm and 130mm of travel is the only real difference I notice, since it's genuinely hard to bottom out the fork on a hardtail if you land correctly even with extra sag and in the 130mm position. Still neat though, and the geometry change really does help uphills.
Just yesterday i commented on askgmbn video about this, thx for answer
Surprised not many comments about adding an angleset or works headset. You could slacken it more to reduce the rise of longer fork and keep the bb height and seat geometry in check
Talon 3 went from 100 thing they called a fork to a 120 Manitou Marvel.
Transformed it into a pretty fun ride on green and blue trails; not least because of the weight saving.
Whyte T130 has just had a 2021 140 upgrade, not yet ridden but I'm hoping it'll be nice.
I have been doing that for years with dirt jump. I'm running at the moment with 180mm up front and 140mm rear and it's really good fun
Cool video Rich, Cheers👊😎 Im thinking of upgrading my forks on my HT from 100mm to 120-140mm. This vid helped
Good to hear Curtis! 🤘
Are u using a XC or a Hardtail
To echo several other comments, a 20 to 40mm upgrade to an XC frame like this is fine. In fact it will do wonders to its ride characteristics if you’re not addicted to its XC efficiencies and just want something more versatile and certainly faster descending. Lowering a 72-68 degree HA by a few degrees is a game changer. I did this to a 2006 XC 29er as a Hail Mary attempt to modernize it and it was a whole new bike afterwards. I added 40mm of travel. Went from 80 to 120mm. Calculate an increased BB height and slight decrease in “Reach” as well . To further modernize this bike, I reduced the stem by a couple cm but widened the bars. (Picture what came stock in 2006 on an XC bike.) Factoring in reach, increased HA and BB height, wheelbase , stem and bar length, gives you some variables to calculate with increased fork travel. But it’s not as daunting as it sounds. Just do it. I really see no downside if you want a more all around capable hard tail at least. I can swap between this new build and a 2018 Ragley Marley-a pretty modern geo spec and moderately “hardcore hard tail”-and it holds its own, no longer riding like a 15 year old dinosaur. As far as frame manufacturer guidelines for the head tube, my research at the time left me largely unconcerned and it’s also not my main rig, nor does it plummet into rock gardens at 25 miles an hour or clear 20 foot gaps, so zero concern there for me.
I've got a 160mm Lyrik on my 290 scout, wouldn't have it any other way, rides so good!
Manufacturers take note.
More travel adjustable forks please. (external adjust)
A tuneable fork for multiple trail and frame types. Helps tune out inherent climb limitations of long travel fork and a frame transferable fork. (upgrade friendly)
My rockshox revelation u turn on marin quad Tara (4,5,6inch rear) is a multi tool on wheels. Tight firm xc and plush DH. An old but versatile dog.
I would choose a travel adjust fork over a fixed travel. Even if the adjustment is made once after installation...
Thanks! More please!
Did a similiar project last year with same brand and model. Except i used a 150 mm yari and 27,5"+ wheels and shorter zee crankarms (165mm) 50mm stem, wider handlebar 780 mm and dropper post. Love the feel of the bike now and use it for big variety of trails :-)
Nice to see a more affordable bike being used!
I just went ham on my lonely old Niner One 9 RDO putting in a 150mm Pike fork, 150mm dropper, wider wheels, and Nobby Nic tires last month.
It took a weight and rolling resistance hit as far as racing goes, but the fun factor went through the roof just being able to send it everywhere. Now my enduro bike is the one that stays at home more often.
Great video idea!!
After seeing Sam pilgrim putting a downhill fork on a road bike and shredding it harder than most riders on a MTB. Which means nothing is impossible if you have the skill and balls
Yeah amazing idea, im riding 29er HT with 160 travel, its pretty amazing.
I attached a W/B 29r xc fork to a 26r team dragon hardtail frame several years ago and found the marriage amazing. Unfortunately I think it led to breaking the frame where the top of the downtube and headtube cracked and separated. Have a look at my strava account to view the before and after results!
I think that it would of been a more realistic test to put a 140/150mm fork on it since 180 is a bit too extreme and people are unlikely to put that on there bike. Interesting test tho making a monster bike!
I got a hardtail with 180mm on the front, and happy with it. :)
@Stable Genius {Jihad} my comment says 180mm, but you read and write 810mm, now what?
Or even a 120/130 would be more realistic
Not to mention make some adjustments to stem, seat position etc. Didn't run bigger tyres for the changed style either. This setup was doomed to fail from the start. Really annoying to watch.
Just ordered a 140mm fork for a 100mm Trek Marlin. I may die but it'll be fun.
I can only recall two hardtail frames that were actually designed with a 180 mm fork in mind: the Nicolai 2MXTB and the Evil Imperial, both monsters from the 26" wheel era.
So what you need to add is hinged chain stays and adjustable seat stay extenders, which you drop for downhill.
Adjusted my rockshox recon from 130mm to 140mm with a custom spacer on my calibre bossnut. Helps with the extra 10mm to avoid bottoming and gives slightly blusher feel before rebound. 150mm feels weird though so I think 140mm is definitely my max for it
Some bikes also come longer as you go up range spec wise. My growler is this way, 120 on the base, 140 on the top model. I think as with all things, moderation is key
I have a 170 yari fork on my 120/130 Marin b17. Was put on it before I bought it off a mate, rides sweet on most trails but doesn't quite have the rear suspension for roots and rocks. Apart from that it rips at bikeparks
Years I had a Ghost Dual Slalom bike on which i fitted a 200 mm RockShox Boxxer. It indeed was not such a climber, but wasn't anyway as a Dual Slalom bike but it was a great bike to ride. After that i had a Ghost full suspension (140 mm rear) and also slapped the Boxxer up front. this bike felt really great, it is important to have sufficient suspension up front for riding safety, especially through CHALLENGING terrain. i would recommend over forking.
No one:
My friends back in 2010: this video
Yeah we broke as hell but were having fun. Nothing beats our POS bike and putting a 160mm fork on our bikes. We were pushing on uphill anyways
Well as I am thinking to replace my 63mm travel coil fork with 100mm of travel air fork I found this video.
Well, I already got new headset to make installation of tapered fork possible.
What do sou think is it too much?
63mm -> 100mm of travel?
I tried a similar setup. I slammed and lengthen the stem slightly. Then I adjusted the seat angle a bit. It made a noticeable difference.
Would been cool to see timed laps, but exactly what I was looking for when I typed in long travel suspension xc mtb. 👍
uhh I was wondering if added leverage may cause failure at the headtube on lighter bikes
The back wheel may have had a little more traction if you put a more grippy tire on
'Holy mole' I love it.
One thing I want to ask that if we increase fork travel like 40 to 50 mm are we risking the frame?, like is there any possibility that the frame could crack in a ride or fet damaged?
Why can't my 1 hour trail rides just be a 1 minute montage... would be so much easier for my schedule :P
I will be honest here... I was considering going exactly that way for my NSBikes DJambo 2016 :) 29 front and 27.5 back
Wait. Isn't that Neil's fork ?😂
Everybody steals Neil’s fork 😂
No I think it is one of rich’s Pole stamina!
@@twinnedsuns 🤫 They actually do! Didn't Blake took one for when he rode the Mega 🤣
@@gmbntech how many people in the GMBN HQ use a Lyrik?
I put a 200mm dvo Emerald on my giant reign that came with a 160 pike, and for my riding it is literally a dream. It is slacker than it used to be, but it is steeper and shorter than the session the forks were on before i broke it. Along with having the wide range gearing it may not climb like and xc hardtail but it will go up anything I feel like putting the effort into pedaling, I dont like pedaling so if it comes down to it I would just hike. I did have to buy a new wheelset for the bike so the hubs were the right size and the stock set dented easily so I got a set of spank vibrocore wheels, between the dvo suspension and the vibrocore wheels that thing absorbs everything compared to with stock front and rear suspension and wheels, i got new brakes too because it came with 2 piston and I needed more stopping power.
after riding rigid for a while i feel like im gonna be thrilled when my 100mm fox float arrives and never need more
Fam. I put a boxxer on a 90s 80mm XC bike. Buddy rode in whistler for almost 2 years and he loved it
I put a 150mm travel and a 27.5 fork on a Giant XTC 26er bike. My front wheel is 27.5 and my rear is 26. I know this is crazy but for me it's fun. I loved it
I bought a rockhopper comp 2x, came with suntour XCM29s on with the Specialized ‘multi-circuit dampening’, 90mm travel. Size small frame and 29er wheels. I put some rockshox pike RCT3s on it, 140mm. It feels great to ride, is this too big of a leap?
Bike seems badass with that fork!
This has definitely made me consider a 120-130 on my 100mm trek x-caliber now. I enjoy XC but can't say no to the steeper techy stuff and often end up feeling underbiked, this could be the answer.
This is why I'm watching! I've got a 2011 X-Cal and I'm curious what would happen. My only issue is the G2 geo and how to compensate.
6:33 that noise made my day.
It actually got much better
Lower the bar with flipped stem and no spacer to make it perfect
Then when you near the bottom of the travel you're essentially riding with your jaw against the tyre
@@dmrfnk Yes, like with any dh bike
@@Hunter_Bidens_Crackpipe_ with the difference that on a dh bike the rear comes down as well
Looks about like my Cannondale Catalyst. It went from 75mm of travel and 27mm stanchions SR Suntour to a DNM Suspension 120mm of travel and 32mm stanchions!!
I just ordered a 2021 Grand Canyon, might have to order some big ass forks now
I swapped a 120mm fork for a 140mm one on my HT. Axle-to-crown measurement is almost identical between them, the new one is 200g lighter, rides higher, and damping is better. Does it still qualify as over-forking?
Actually thinking about taking my Enduro/Superenduro (180mm front und rear) to a RockShox ZEB with 190mm travel...would this actually work well? Or is the Downhill bike the better Option?
Well i just put a Domain 180 29" onto my xl sized Canyon stoic up from the stock reccon Silver 140mm 29".... having arround 150km on it now and its awesome but an xl stoic is a pretty big bikr so its fit even optics wise quite nice
I've been considering making a mullet out of my entry level XC bike and factoring in overforking from 80 mm to 120 mm. Though in the video, how is Neil getting more clipping pedals with the increased bottom bracket height? @10:14
Alright time to put a 160 on my decade old xc and see how it fairs. I can't afford to replace it with a trail or enduro but this might just work out. I already have 4pot brakes on the way so hopefully I don't also run into brake issues.
For liability reasons we have to say, DONT DO THIS, but for awesome reasons, DO THIS, longer wheelbase, slacked it out, more travel = rad!
I use a XC frame with 150mm rockshox 35dia travel forks, Maxxis Assegai 29x2.5 on front, dhr ii 27.5x2.4 on rear and 100 mm drop seat: it is quite cheap and works fine on descending and it works fine climbing. You can do everything: it depends from biker skills.
Would it be ok to place a larger fork if you want to change your XC bike to more of a trail bike? I have an XC giant anthem frame that I want to build to more of a trail bike...
The hope bottom cup to fit a tapered fork made me laugh
This makes me want to over fork my Diamondback Sync’R for downhill. It’s already pretty slack so bumping up the travel about 40 mm may put it around a 62-63* head tube angle. Hmm...
Sounds like a good idea ill think some downhill forks should be next
Good idea. Any hard-core HT with plush fork should use more than 160mm. So the head tube angle will not appear as 71' when you sit on your bike.
How did you guys even fit the fork on what seems like a straight headtube? What adapters were used?
Thanks for the video, insightful. I have checked with the manufacturer and yep - they do not advice changing the fork for bigger, than 120mm ( that it's on a bike). I have a hardtail of 120mm and thinking to change it to 140mm ( 6061 Alloy Frame, butted TT & DT, Head angle 66.5, the seat post is 74.5 ). if I will change the fork to 140mm ( +20mm )from the original manufacturer build, what do I need to change also? Front disc brake from 180mm to 200? brakes etc? your comments and suggestions will be a great help. Cheers
Sweet bike!
how did you get the tapered fork on the bike? it has a straight tube right?
What I did when a teen was put a big fork on a small 26 jump bike frame with a 24 wheel with the handle bars rolled back slightly
It felt strange but it was fun
The added bb height made you feel so tall when stood up
How did you fit such a high end fork, I’m presuming it has a tapered steerer, on a bike with what looks like a straight head tube?