The Root of Money (Atlas Shrugged Part 2)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2012
- James Taggart is what would now be called a "crony capitalist." His wedding guests
are the elite of a politicized economy. Taggart, Francisco d'Anconia, and Hank Rearden are all members of the "1%" --but Francisco, in his "money speech" is challenging the whole idea of the "1%." The speech is a clarion call to understand the true nature of wealth and the distinction between those who produce it and those who acquire it through political favors.
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This video features clips from Atlas Shrugged Part 2. David Kelley, founder and chief intellectual officer of The Atlas Society, is speaker in this video.
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PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT:
Hello, I'm David Kelley. I'm a Senior Fellow at The ATLAS SOCIETY and consultant to the ATLAS SHRUGGED movie.
The scene we are going to watch takes place at the wedding of James Taggart, Dagny Taggart's brother and the president of Taggart Transcontinental railroad. Francisco d'Anconia, the mysterious figure who seems to appear at every pivotal scene, is talking about money.
[Play scene: whole clip, beginning to end]
In the novel, Francisco's statement about money is one of the iconic moments, often cited by readers as memorable, and often excerpted.....
As for the offense, James Taggart is what we would now call a crony capitalist. His wedding guests are the elite of a politicized economy, people who have business connections with the powers that be in Washington, along with their friends and enablers in high society. Francisco punctures their self-image as do-gooders when he describes them as "the aristocracy of pull."
...
The people at the wedding as not welfare dependents who live on benefits taken from taxpayers, but they are still takers because they depend on government favors and subsidies, extracted at the expense of makers-genuine producers-like Dagny Taggart and Hank Rearden. ...
The theme of makers vs. takers runs throughout Atlas Shrugged, and is highlighted in many specific forms. In this scene, the specific form is the nature and role of money, keyed off one guest's invocation of the Biblical statement "money is the root of all evil."
In response, Francisco states the two central themes in the longer version in the novel, which is well worth reading.
First, the fact that money is a medium of exchange.
Money is a tool that allows us to trade with one another. Your goods for my goods. Your efforts for mine.
That is, money is the medium in which independent people trade the products of their efforts.
...
Money is the medium in which we exchange goods and services, just as language is the medium in which she exchange our thoughts. But just as the sounds we make in speaking or the marks we make in writing are meaningless unless there is thought behind them, so the paper we carry in our wallets is worthless unless it represents real things of value.
And those things have to be produced. For all the benefits of trade, in which each side gains, what is traded has to be produced. Unless people create value through production, they can trade only a fixed stock of goods. But in Atlas Shrugged-as in our own world-people are continually creating new goods, at lower cost, by using their powers of reason.
Hank Rearden's new metal-Rearden Metal-is an example in the novel. In the real world? Think Bill Gates and Microsoft, Steve Jobs and the iPad, the lesser known people who have created new medical technologies.
Once created, such wealth can be taken by people who did not produce it. As Francisco says, having money is not the measure of a man. What matters is how he got it. If he produced it by creating value, then his money is a token of honor. But if it was taken from those who produce - there is no honor. You're simply a looter.
Here again we see the contrast between makers-those who produce, as any level-and those who take-through government favors.
Hank and Francisco are members of what is now called the 1%. So is James Taggart. Do you see how Francisco is challenging the whole idea of the 1%? It's not about how rich you are, in terms of dollars. It's about how you acquired the wealth.
When a society allows both ways of getting money, as ours does today, something is wrong.
Francisco's "money speech" is a clarion call to understand the true meaning of wealth.
For those who earn it through honest effort, production, and voluntary exchange-at any level, from the local grocer to the greatest innovators-it is indeed a badge of honor.
But those who acquire wealth through pull are, as Francisco says, "just looters." - บันเทิง
I first read Atlas Shrugged as a 16 year old way back in 1984 and thought she was nuts and our country would never let this happen. Here we are 36 years later and its all around us. Every high school student should read Atlas Shrugged.
The actor in this part nailed d'Anconia's character perfectly.
I missed the part of the money speech where Francisco states (paraphrased) "when you see producers having to ask permission from those who produce nothing, then you know your society is doomed." As I try to make my way through the morass of regulation idiocy trying to start a small business, truer words were never spoken.
Ayn Rand, extraordinary genius. Thanks for sharing this.
She fled a communist nation with her family. The book is a warning against socialism and communism.
This should be required viewing for all college students.
Atlas Shrugged is up there with 1984. So many parallels with what’s going on now.
Don't forget Animal Farm
All animals are Equal.
Some Animals are more equal than others.
Add 'BRAVE NEW WORLD '
Francisco is my favorite character, bar none. He walks around, pretending to be this spendthrift playboy, but in reality, he has far more insight into what's going on than most of the people in the arc.
Im partial to hank
In order to have Francisco speech in its entirety they might as well add Galt's radio speech along with it and make a movie of them alone called "Atlas Shrugged Part IV: The Philosophy of Objectivism"
From Uganda, I love this part of the series, outstanding! Boo
And when the loot runs out, the looters turn violent. Thanks for adding that punctuation. That scene comes later.
One of my favorite Scenes in Atlas 2.
FYI one other key point with the Takers/Looters, what they Take/Loot is Taken by Force.
Don't believe me? Try not paying your taxes sometime, the IRS will come and take everything you have at gunpoint if you do.
The IRS is now armed, they have bought up hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition
Traditionally administrative agencies spent more than $20 million. Four notable examples:
1) The 2,300 Special Agents at the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) are allowed to carry AR-15’s, P90 tactical rifles, and other heavy weaponry. Recently, the IRS armed up with $1.2 million in new ammunition. This was in addition to the $11 million procurement of guns, ammunition, and military-style equipment procured between 2006-2014.
Link to the above information
www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/10/20/why-are-federal-bureaucrats-buying-guns-and-ammo-158-million-spent-by-non-military-agencies/#f5e864b64a16
"Where neither their honor nor their money is touched, most men live contented" - Niccolo Machiavelli
Ayn Rand wrote that almost 80 years ago and for 80 years almost never listened... so now the overwhelming majority of Americans fundamentally either are knowingly on the side of James Taggart or are too ignorant to know which side to take, leading them to unknowingly taking James' side.
Good luck!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Capitalism; yes. Crony Capitalism; no. If those relationships could be swept away or dissolved, that would be a better world! PS - Every Democrat needs to watch this video!!!
Very nice passage of the movie! And I must state, a great summary of Mrs. Rand's words. I'm not a Christian, but the Bible doesn't state money is the root of all evil. Instead it states that the Love of/for money is. There is a fundamental difference between these two statements. I thought I'd share this small bit of information. After all, reason is man's absolute and the only path to knowledge. Thank you for your videos.
@4:23 "Money is the root of all evil" is not a biblical injunction. The Bible (KJV) says, "the love of money is the root of all evil" (1 Tim. 6:10), but the Greek word translated as "love of money" is more accurately translated as avarice, extreme greed, or materialism. The looters love money. Francisco, Dagney, and Hank love producing value, not simply money.
Exactly.
The biblical injunction is NOT that money is the root of all evil. The text says "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs" 1 Timothy 6:10.
Building wealth involves developing good habits like regularly putting money away in intervals for solid investments. Instead of trying to predict and prognosticate the stability of the market and precisely when the change is going to happen, a better strategy is simply having a portfolio that’s well prepared for any eventually, that’s how some folks' been averaging 150K every 7week these past 4months according to Bloomberg.
That’s crazy, I’m just doing everything wrong with my portfolio.
The US-Stock Mrkt had been on it’s longest bull-run in history, so the mass hysteria and panic is relatable considering we’re not accustomed to such troubled mrkts, but there are avenues lurking around if you know where to look. My wife and I are retiring this year with over $7,000,000 in tax deferred investments. up until 3 years ago we were 100% in the S&P. During bear markets we had a perfect plan. We got an investment manager in our corner and didn’t look at our portfolio for nearly a year.
Same here, 75% of my portfolio is in the red and I really don’t know how long I can stomach the losses. I’m beginning to reach a breaking point.
Patience patience patience. It's a cycle.... a sucky point in the cycle, but a cycle nonetheless.
Wow, that’s stirring! Do you mind connecting me to your advisor please. I desperately need one to diversified my portfolio.
Now this, it nails it. Do the whole speech. The narrator's speaking like this is a movie review. All good if you go further.
*Only a Netflix series can do justice to this novel.*
ABSOLUTELY
netflix would fuck it up because they shove their leftist politics into everything
@@tpzlol so true, maybe Amazon Prime?
ive read during Japanese feudal times the four tiered system of samurai, farmers, artisans and merchants had merchants at the bottom! But they do create ... a means of products accurately getting to where, when and how much they are needed.
4:50 - 5:08 It is amazing how many people cannot grasp that concept.
The speech is so much better in the book.
it definitely is but I thought this made the main point.
I disagree,
Timothy never said "money is the root of all evil". He said "the love of money is the root of all evil". Greed. Get it? Money was invented by the market which was invented by the village which was invented by agriculture. Agriculture, the printed word, non-animal or human powered conveyance and distributed electrical current. That's IT. That is the modern world. Everything else is just built on them. Greed is NOT good. Because "hooray for me and fuck you" is not a viable method of governance. Is it?
The one in the book is way too long for a movie
Mr. Peezy always are
I like the movie because it lets people know about Ayn Rand,some might even read her books. This is the times of Ayn Rand and anyone who read Atlas Shrugged can observe that.
I really likr Mr. Kellys take on the story and what it means.
One of the best scenes in the movie......I like the films adaptation.
Integrity and Honor; hard pressed to find those qualities anywhere in an economy where you have to compromise and collaborate with the government in order to produce, sell or service when making one’s living.
part 3 is in production.
When will this film premiered in Aisa?
facebook .com Derek Folley for Mayor Of Dayton
I was attack by the system in my political campaign. But, I remember what Francisco d'Anconia stated in the book. "If you want to beat somebody, give them exactly what they want and nothing more." As a result, I move on. The book is powerful. DF
Nice to know I'm not alone.
Well said.
You got the gist of it, the exchange is consensual and under those conditions both parties find the arrangement beneficial to their interests. They are not looters.
With respect to "takers," in this discussion the narrator is only considering government as a conduit of unearned wealth. But in fact the system is necessarily full of unearned wealth in many forms. What about the role of the earth, its atmosphere and the sun, which are the sources of all energy and raw materials? What about the role of infrastructure such as roads, ports and air traffic control, without which the creation of wealth and distribution of goods would be impossible? What about the role of the workers who perform the skilled or unskilled tasks necessary to produce the actual goods? What about the role of the consumers of these goods, who must themselves have money to buy the factory owner's goods, so that from the owner's point of view, they are another necessary component of wealth creation? What about the role of commercial law, as well as the courts, in making it possible to settle the many business disputes that inevitably and unavoidably arise?
There are interesting ideas in play here, but many more elements need to be included.
You need to read the book. Don't write the above and claim you have.
Well said mate. The wage slaves of today are the result of this kind of corporist propaganda. That movie is a joke. Ayn Rand was the product of a collectivist culture who rebelled against it and spent her life trying to justify that rejection. She was a great intellect but seems to have no truck with humanity and its needs.
You can't live your life in a test tube.
There is no money. Your energy wealth is the currency and they are unlawfully managing your estates through an insinuauation your are dead and lost beyond the seas. Come to know the Truth.
I love Rearden's speeches, but I think John Galt was meant by Rand to be a flat, non-dynamic character. He had no development arc because in Rand's mind, Galt was the "perfect man", there was no development for him to make. He's distant, unattainable, untouchable, where Rearden and D'anconia are far more accessable. We've seen Rearden struggle with himself and his doubts, which in my mind makes him far more interesting.
Joseph Kennedy advised his sons to become experts in government and politics. Not business. He knew something. That in the future influence (pull), more than in the past, was becoming equal to if not more important than wealth. If properly wielded. It's why the ivy schools stack the halls of bureaucracy with grads. Not in the functionary jobs but in the decision and policy making positions.
The state school grads can have the crumbs off the table as the cogs of bureaucracy but the important matters need to be decided in favor of the top political class or tribe. Sidenote, When I read A.S. I imagined Francisco much taller.
MrDrmillgram they mis-cast that role imho.
Francisco was tall in the book.
Francisco d'Anconia was very power in the book. Reading the book was moving. In the book, James Taggart watch himself when trying to approach Francisco. the book describe Taggart as being a bit bald & short.
I like the the book character of Francisco d'Anconia . He show that he was an eloquent speaker. I believe that the movie cut out some of some good speeches that Francisco d'Anconia had stated in the book. I actually highlighted parts of the book when Francisco d'Anconia spoke and others
The sad thing is that Ayn Rand was really writing about St. Petersburg in the 1920s, and only speculating on what a similar system might mean for the US.
We don't need to speculate anymore. Just go see what Detroit looks like now.
I listened to the Atlas Shrugged the book read on a CD player in the car it insta
I mean listening to it.
The actual speech answers that question:
"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth - the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started.... Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune."
Jesus once said, "Money answers all things". It doesn't solve all things...
but I've been financially poor and I've been financially 'comfortable'.
I choose comfortable (that comes by making more money) any day.
Lol clever, money being fractional measurement for goods.
Ryan Pretchik Yes I just thought the double meaning is clever and only to be understood by the people who understand value.
It is important to understand the distinction between money and fiat currency...the former maintains its value over time and is a tool for good, the latter loses value over time(inflation) and is a tool for looting and theft.
One might say that it is the very nature of money itself that makes it good or evil.
That's because man constructed Jesus to prevent success, based on guilt. Give everythjng you have???? To who??? To the people who made up this shit!
Money solves all problems the Bible said.. The love of money is the root of all evil not money it self because ppl are evil not a lifeless paper.
Indeed.
Atlas Shrugged is fiction that is eerily merging into reality. I am watching for the day when the counterfeit pile of paper money bounces, marked, ‘Account overdrawn.’
This excerpt in the movie was a wrong decision; Francisco's entire money speech should have been included. It is a central theme. Fortunately, the entire speech can be heard on TH-cam; Atlas Shrugged - Francisco's money speech.
The paper we carry in our wallets is intrinsically worthless, because it it has no objective value.
vlad nabokov gold ITSELF has no "intrinsic" value but what we give it. I have no use for gold; I can't hand it to a cashier & get a cup of coffee with it, can't pay my bills (in person or by mail) with it, and so for me - and in the context of what is and is not objectively recognized as valuable - paper money DOES in fact have value in the context of the objective reality of my life. More so even than gold itself. As a capitalist, I can recognize & work with that.
It’s the love of money, not just money.
Actually I reread it and you are true. Eddie Willers was also supposed to be a blond haired/blue eyed white man,not an African American with dark hair and dark eyes.
You make a good point, but they probably had to cut for time.
The film ruined the original FD speech which is the almost 3 pages long, perhaps because its a film....
The FD speech is wonderful in the book. I just with the movie version had had proper financial backing..,nobody wanted to touch it. It's too anti-socialist.. my kind of movie.
+leeth They messed up the pacing. He got going there for a minute, then James started grabbing his elbow. He needed about 2 or 3 minutes more. The actor was up to it. He was nailing it. He was even getting the idea of who he was talking to. Makers, and he looks at Hank. Takers and he looks at James. The camera work and actors playing the party guests were doing it well. They just needed to give him 2 or 3 minutes more.
My problem with Galt's speech in the book was that it was redundant and long for no real good reason other than it was the end of the book.. While a agree with Rand her speech writing needed to be massaged.
The messed up by shortening it, but they got the absolutely right man to play the role. This scene is forever burned into my memory.
This was more of summary than the speech so it could fit into the film.
Just for the sake of clarity, the Biblical quotation is "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil." I Timothy 6:10. In fact, the Bible frequently talks about money as a material blessing, not something to be despised. That is a modern ethos.
Many characters held highly esteemed in the scriptures were wealthy men who came to their wealth honestly and fairly. Those the Bible condemns are those who idolize money or who use their power to abuse others.
Scott Boor
Strangely enough there’s the Barclays Bank advert which says the same thing, but the words are spoken by Samuel L. He cites bartering a chicken for something else. In this instance the chicken is the medium of exchange. Does this make the chicken evil?
Thanks Man. I just wish the left could debate honestly ... without either smearing the messenger, or twisting the message. If our media called them out on those tactics -- the people might start to see fair debates and make informed decisions.
They deny the basic truth of existence. Honesty will never be one of their real values. Valuing honesty means valuing reality.
In the context of "Atlas Shrugged", what is Rand's and The Atlas Society's opinions about inherited wealth? Is it "dirty" money if the heir may have done little to directly earn it?
Should an heir have to pay [unreasonable] taxes and be coerced into giving up most of that wealth since a "you didn't build that" mentality [and legislation] seems prevalent?
The book deserves a real movie with competent actors. This is a mockery
It should be noted that the Bible does not say that money is the route of all evil. The Biblical quote is "The love of money is the route of all evil".
You're not, but that's how it feels sometimes. Let's reach an agreement, let's fight them, let's fight their agenda of socialism and cultural marxism, let's show resistance, let's show them we won't let them, let's show them tomorrow belongs to us, it always has and it always will.
Oh man, look at Francisco's sass :D
Neither Part 1 or Part 2 ever came to my very large Central Florida city of looters. I am more than afraid that Part 3 will not be made. Oh, I do hope I am wrong. Re-reading today is watching Network News, Magazines, whatever media on the net. It has arrived!
Wealth must be created, it doesn't just exist in its own, that means that all started poor. Have you actually manage to create wealth and had that taken from you, or do you just want others to work so you can take their wealth?
I have problems with the version of the speech in the movie and the commentary.
A) The movie version of the speech, necessarily shortened, leaves out the fact that the producer should receive gold, which is real, instead of paper, which was once representative of something real and is now only representative of something ephemeral.
B) The commentator assumes that the paper is real.
C) He associates Bill Gates and Steve Jobs with producers. Bill Gates did not produce DOS, he bought it; he did not produce Windows, he copied it. Actually, in both these cases his employees did whatever real production occurred and he reaped the rewards; managing a team is useful but I have serious doubts he did even that much. Steve Jobs, if you know anything about how Apple OS and iOS function, set out to be Big Brother from "1984": You either do things his way or you are unable to do anything at all.
Gates created Microsoft BASIC, you fool.
*Actually, in both these cases his employees did whatever real production occurred and he reaped the rewards*
Ok, so you accept the communist viewpoint of corporations?
I suggest that you read the book again, if you want to live again inyou benevolent universe and remember when you do thar AS is the story of what happens when the mind goes on strike and the conflict is between Galt and Dagny over the form of Altruism Rand called 'the sanction of the victim'
In lightning .
a very good point.but could just as well be put on the other foot
It's only in order to call this masterpiece the magnum opus of Ayn Rand.
I don't like how the lines from the random weddings guests are just there for him to refute them, it's almost a monologue speech.
***** I disagree, it's just not a great movie.. it's doesn't do Rand's work justice
Anthony Zelot I would like to understand why you believe Atlas Shrugged and the rest of Rand's work is stupid. Do you find her writing style disagreeable to your preferences or do you disagree with her beliefs? Rather than handing out insults could you add some substance to your thoughts.
bible doesn't say money is the root of all evil, it is the LOVE of money. But even if your only wish for business is to make money, doesn't mean money is the only think you love.
I wish the writer and filmmaker would have included the "love of money" part of the speech as well. As an aside, I wonder if Ayn Rand would have claimed the LACK of money as the root of all evil or not.
2:10 "when money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men" sounds like the lack of money is a candidate for root of most evil.
I'm still waiting for the Michael Bay or the Martin Scorsese version.
***** What's bullshit? Do you just not like her writing?
+Ken Upton I bet he's a socialist, a lot of them hate Ayn Rand.
Paladin Butters he is right about Hollywood not making this film... but they still should
Anthony Zelot so capitalists have low iq? Quite the opposite, you don't understand anything about capitalism, troll.
No, if you read the book carefuly where his physical appearance is described he wasn't actually supposed to look like George Lopez, he had blue eyes... But again since Americans hardly grasp the concept of what a White Hispanic is there is no surprise that everytime they hear the words Latin American or Hispanic they think of someone with the phenotype of George Lopez.
watch and learn kids.
maker or taker,
whats it gonna be?
"Our ideals are higher than profit."
And yet he's standing there, in a super expensive tux, in a setting filled with lavish music and décor, sipping on what is probably an extremely expensive brand of champagne... yeah....
He should have taken a podium to command the room during the speech. Part 2 paled compared to the making of Part 1. Get the artistry back in Part 3.
That's not the "start" as I actually said rather than "born". You just changed my comment and then refuted something other than what I actually said, and removed it from the context of your comment that I was repling to to boot.
Im quite sure Gates has taken government favors and he also cashed in on the fact that his software was easily hacked and did nothing to prevent that. It opened a business for some folks to counter the hackers but I do believe he cashed in on that. I have no issue with others who figured out how to try to stop the hacking. I have not met too many makers that were not on the government take. I have total respect for them. Others not so much. I would not use those that you mention as good examples of makers. Apple more so than Gates but neither are clean untouched from government taker influence.
NavyOneKC you should actually read the passage . . . the actual Bible quote is also addressed.
I think the biblical phrase is "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" 1 Timothy 6:10 not money is the root of all kinds of evil
What is money?
ChileExpatFamily Money is the key to your options in life.
Exactly, what the heck is happening to the world?
This Francisco is too short!
Why are the "heroes" of this film saying dialogue that the villains normally say
I think evil is the root of all evil.. Looking for excuses and reasons for it is just a way of not dealing.
Rinehart and Murdoch...
Sorry, I take it literally, I have Asperger and have tendency to take things literally.
0:34
Wtf Howard Hamlin
I don't think or care that much about money. If you don't mind, it does not matter. The last time I planted some money it didn't grow roots either. I speculate it is because it's carbon based parent, likely a plant or tree, was dead before being processed into money.
The Biblical phrase is "The love of money is the root of all evil". A bit different from that money itself is the root.
Ahh, so if people aren't forced at gunpoint to give, morals will break down? Gotcha..
I love how the left decides that they need government to have them, and others, give by means of force. Let's forcibly take things others have gained peaceably...
Solindra
Crony capitlism at its best.
The analysis was quite good but the scene itself was disappointing. It had none of the gravity or simple brilliance of the same scene in the novel. The adaption brings to mind Howard Roark's reaction to unwelcome meddling in his Cortlandt Homes project in The Fountainhead (there, Roark destroyed the project).
The ' LOVE ' of money is the root of ALL EVIL. Why?
Bcz men put their TRUST in printed cotton. People will marry, divorce. fight, argue, beat, steal and kill for it. LUKE 16 : 19
" The RICH man went to HELL."
Nowhere does the Bible say that "Money is the root of all evil." I'm sure Ayn Rand would not appreciate being misquoted, and neither would the Apostle Paul. In 1 Timothy 6:10, the Apostle in fact does say that "The LOVE OF Money is the root of all evil." There is a big difference!
My goodness, having tried and failed to make a film worth watching the Atlas Society is trying to sell its connection with Ayn Rand by explaining what AR already said in te book.
They needed to tell the story whose central conflict is between John Galt and DagnyTaggart. It really is about the sanction of the victim, David.
James Taggart should be the Democratic Party mascot
The 'love of money' is the root of all evil...
but what about the coefficient milk money ? there is the point where capitalism crashed when this honest trades where manipulated prices raised or dropped in order to get money on expenses of the weak when we sort this out we can live happily ever after in what ever the system will be called :)
Derek ;) free market was sustainable in middle age !!! where you had your home have produced 70% of what you need by yourself and the rest you have traided ....
with technical improvements work has become easier and therefore less people can produce more !!!
this leads to state where 10 people can produce everything that is needed by 1000 >>>
so tell me what should 990 people do to be able to buy on the free market products thay need ??
and also this is the think why the free market has collapsed and will never be sustainable ...
its obvious if you look from angle that you prosper have everything you need and only need to sell a free market looks promissing ... also when you look from point of where you have new idea and thx to free market you can evolve and prosper ...but
Shit in mind makes money as root of all evil
Patrick Fabian is better at Hamlin, Hamlin, and McGill. He is at his best matching wits with Kim and Jimmy.
How's that 'Coexist' thing workin' out for ya? LOL
I would much rather recieve a voluntary invoice every 3 months from my local government itemized for road services, utility service, fire and police. If I don't pay, I don't recieve the services. The difference is force versus voluntary consent. Altruism is foolish as teaching a man how to fish is always preferred, but it becauses a crime when those services are funded down the barrel of a gun and badge.