Clove's FIRST Pro Game Wasn't Great!
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Lmao, the thumbnail and title make Clove feel like a real person who struggled in their first NBA game or something 😭
affected their legacy for sure 😢
Immediate draft bust imo 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
I’ll never give up on an agent until prx picks them
another problem you forgot to mention is that even tho you may get the heal off with clove it only stays for a short duration after it and if the team rotates well your heal is gone and your back to your original health its not like the reyna heal where even after the use you will still be back to a 100 health but in clove once its gone your back to the same health and so you have to play fast with it which most teams cant do successfully.
So true i can't even use it in ranked its so shit
@@sleeperdream333 Instead of insta healing you should fall back to cover and wait for info. If there's someone else there, heal and repeek. Seeing as you can heal through walls, and the timing is rather generous, there's no need to instaheal.
Wait, I thought Reyna's overheal also goes down to the original health, after 20 or so seconds pass (example 70 to 150 overheal back to 70). I never play Reyna, so excuse my ignorance of her abilities.
@@harshshiv535 the heal is permanent, just the overheal that acts as your shields will decay after a while
Clove is awarded for aggressive positioning. Not aggressive dueling, positioning. You want to get two on clove and die every round unless you’re playing clutch or you have 4 up. If you get two and die, that’s 3 ult orbs every rd. Which means uou have ult every 3 rounds. Meaning if you’re ulting only twice in a half you aren’t playing her correctly. I look at my ult a lot on clove and spend more time debating if I should use it vs not having it up.
Clove might have potential in a no duelist, double controller comp with Viper after the nerf to provide sort of 1.5 controllers and 0.5 duelists if that makes sense. Smoke players who can shoot really well like TenZ, Mindfreak, Cryo for eg. might be good on them.
not really. Omen fulfills the role of a duelist better than Clove does. Omen is comparable to Jett while Clove is comparable to Reyna. Reyna isn't really an actual duelist, she is just kind of an agent who's impact directly depends on their fragging power. The no duelist comps worked without an entry in 2022 because of how powerful Fade and Chamber were, not really because no dive is a better approach. Like right now, the no dive comps aren't really doing it...
I was going to say, I agree with the above comment. Omen basically does what Clove does but more outside the Smoking after death (and I guess an argument can be made about the ult). I think you'd really use Clove in Double-Controller on very certain maps like Sunset for example just due to the size. One thing Clove does do better than Omen is the faster smoke executes, so for fast pushes, and on maps with small sizes, I think Clove has potential.
No
@@noodlesrgood1119 Fantastic insight
@@funkycrawler619 I would imagine the Viper nerf is done with Clove in mind. Riot have created Clove to fulfill some specific role slot that probably isn't big enough yet.
we are all thinking the same thing, would be really cool for Clove to be played, but omens blind just makes him much more valuable than clove
8:20 although what you said is true but you're forgetting that clove ult is also a safety net. When we see life pushing the site he's able to do it more confidentially because he can res himself and be of more value to his team. In that sense even if the res isn't used in a round it does give that space and trade opportunity like a phoenix ult.
This is what I think makes clove main in rank able to top frag, her C abilities and ultimate and being able to smoke after death makes them fearless which what most player lacks even duelist main
@@johnsonfromml8662 welp, you got me. thats what i do
Oh wow, can't wait for a new agent to come out and all valorant youtubers going "[Agent name] is broken 😲😯😮" just for the agent to be absolutely shit
clove is actually broken in ranked if u look at the agent's winrate
i love how harbor goes from shit to broken to shit to broken to shit again
@@muhammadhamdikurniarahman9256 new agent, plus you know how when a new agent is released everyone is playing the agent. That stat will make sense as clove gets old
I don't think anyone says Clove is bad lol the issue is they're exactly what their designed to be "For Duelists who have to fill". Their smokes are solid, but the Smoke-After death is only good if you actually take the site and their team utility is very situational due to how it activates.
Absolute shit is a stretch
I think the best use of the pick me up is to stand in a slight off angle, close enough where the speed buff is enough to get away. The meddle is only good in combination with other utility imo. A snakebite or nade on the planter. So not enough value in pro play sadly…
I honestly, think Clove has potential, and definitely moreso than previous releases but I do think the potential is there if you can capitalize on Clove's strengths like maybe Agent Synergy (Sova/Raze with Meddle) or Smoke After Death on smaller maps and maps that can benefit from a fast execute (like Sunset/Lotus and Ascent to a Degree). Also Clove's ult actually can be an incredible stalling tool in post plant if the enemy just doesn't want to maybe give you a kill and/or risk dying. One super niche and maybe synergy I never realized with Clove, is that if you get the Pick Me Up off with Harbor, you essentially ignore his slow so I guess there can be synergy with Harbor there as well. Either way, I do think Clove has potential.
The potential is there but clove isnt better than the other controllers at the moment. While there is synergy between sova and raze with the meddle, there are other agents who have better utils that combo with them. In Lotus and ascent, omen is better than clove in many ways (he also has rechargeable smokes, has a good blind, and tp is a good util as well while cloves heal lasts for a very short duration, which in a map like ascent and lotus where defaulting is common is not going to be great and the meddle has a very small range for usage). Also the synergy with harbour is extremely niche cause harbour himself doesnt get picked a lot. Basically clove has a good kit but other agents have better kits and unless some kind of small buff is provided to the meddle or pick me up, cloves pickrate is most probably going to be low.
Potential = cope
@@shulleon582 No not really lol especially if you compare Clove to everyone before.
rank agent only
I agree if they just increase the time until the meddle explodes so it can actually be used for lineups then you can combien it with a sova shock like you said rly easily to take space
idk if sw this but g2 gozen played clove in some dach relegation match...and they won... might worth checking out
G2-Gozen always stay innovating i swear
Clove has been used like 3-4 times in GC already, IIRC Shopify Rebellion and misu qts uses them too.
Glad to see G2 Gozen try Clove out. Although I don't think we'll see it in Tier 1 anytime soon, given how close and important the matches have been. Teams probably don't want to risk anything without sufficient practice yet.
4:46 is when FPX Life uses "pick me up" also. Although the efficacy can be looked into certainly.
The thing I do not like about clove kit, is it doesnt feel compatible a lot especially in contacts or rushes which is basically any ranked game.
Your pick me up and ult asks you to be positioned as first contact.
Your smoke asks you to be around brim position where you would second/third contact, so you can pop at once together.
Your meddle asks you to be positioned around intiators.
I can take the first 2 together but there isnt really any space to use meddle most of the time
when i play clove i often smoke on site entry, meddle a often played position while i rush up to the duelists and, just hit site guns blazin. it works to a decent extent
Also another unique mechanic is when ur ult is full, when u die u can see ur surrounding for few second as long as u don't press ur ult, so it's kinda like when Clove die = sova drone
One point I think is important about the Pick Me Up is it could potentially win you a pistol round because every bit of hp is critical during those rounds and winning pistol round can be huge.
That being said, that's not much of a reason to pick clove when you can have sage or skye heal and still have better utility (viper wall, omen blind, etc.) Especially when the hp advantage on pistol round can be useless if your team or the other team slows down/rotates and your overheal runs out of time OR you just get shit on with the overheal. I just thought it was worth at least mentioning this potential advantage with clove.
Unlike Reyna she can buy her 2 smokes while still able to buy C, Reyna need to sacrifice dismiss or a flash to get a more than 100 HP at pistol round which is a win condition being able to take headshots twice, Not to mention clove C is instant unlike reyna
@@johnsonfromml8662 I agree, the overheal on pistol is huge. But I don't think that alone can make clove viable.
Using Reyna for comparison in terms of viability in pro play is like using a stick to compare the usefulness of medieval weapons. It doesn't mean much to say a dagger is stronger than a tree stick.
So maybe we should make the Clove res wait longer to have more time to decide to come back or not, and maybe make the dismiss invisible
I wonder if clove would be so much better for pro play if her ult doesn't have a short window, like you can activate it whenever after death
When is the New NRG video coming out?
cant wait for prx something on clove
I think the only agent clove can replace is Reyna bc when you play Reyna ur already sacrificing team util, maybe woot on TH or something or jinggg on PRX could try it tho
I'd love to see SEN try out clove. I think TenZ has experimented with and learned the agent more than any other pro player at this point.
Bro needs a new headset
you can take the pearl b site out the map pool but you cant take it out of valo ( idk why , I see a smoke everything ,spam meta incoming )
Roulette looking comp
for me, clove should be play with her kit in mind instead of her role. yes, she can smoke, but i think it more fit if she using it for herself instead for the team. and riot did design her to be more aggressive. like decay may not be useful but it can be used to flush out people or doing 1v1 better.
if people want to play cloce, i think its better in comp that use omen as main smoker like in ascent or sunset. that map use omen because they only need standard smoke instead of out of the box smoke placement.
so in ascent it can be jett, kj, omen, sova, clove.
or in sunset can be like raze, breach, cypher, omen, and clove
Fpx always play the weirdest comp 😭😭
The same tittle as with gekko, just wait
??? Gekko has been played in multiple Tier1 matches and has even found his place in the Bind and Sunset meta comp. What are you talking about.
didnt gekko get a bajillion buffs with heavy nerfs to the strongest agents competing for his role tho?
@@Maxawa. I honestly think Skye losing her regenning flashes was the biggest possible buff Gekko could've received
@@ScripFing same, gekko wouldnt be in the spotlight he is today if it wasnt for the nerfs to sova and especially skye
This is funny until suddenly prx used clove as duelist in pacific final.
After viper nerf we will see
Okay fpx my fav team lmao
I remember when this happned last time and it was viper on haven :D
wait till my goat forsaken drops 30 with clove in shanghai
inb4 discord notification
Next up:"Clove's SECOND Pro Game Was Great!
HAHAHHAHA!!!! He said replicate viper with clove…no shot
Bro I’m in the trenches in ranked NA like s3- plat 1 and when viper got nerfed all I play is clove now. Every single map, and creating pressure is all I do. And I’m frying. And when you fry on clove ITS A PROBLEM. Because then you’re Reyna and phx and you have smokes. I really want to see her in pro play but it probably won’t happen.
9:48 Disagree with healing abilities being not that useful in pro play in general. If you're talking about Clove and Reyna, sure. The prereq of having to kill/assist to use the heal makes them highly situational, indeed. But Skye heal or even Sage heal can make or break rounds, and they have in pro games with a significant percentage.
I think she would work on icebox but with a viper shocks and a bunch of molies
Omg u misgendered clove!!!1!1
bro is onto nothing?! 🗣️ 📢 🔥
I think instead of brim, clove would be better fit on bind with gekko
Brim triple smokes on bind a and b site are rly good for quick site takes . I think it would be cool to see Clove tried out, though.
Omen would be better no?
her*
Ok it looks like clove isnt the best in pro play, but in comp games with randos, clove is pretty decent and a really fun character, her ability to smoke quikly can be used for great aggresion and tempo
TMV the goat, TMV down my throat
What is riots dumb excuse for not having game replays?
Omen is still the superior dome smoker, you can do so much with his util. Clove's selling point is smoking after death but everything else, Omen is better.
I cannot overstate how much I disagree with TMV's argument that Clove's ult is too situational. Plenty of ults are situational. You can waste Jett Knives on a round where you have a Rifle and a man advantage. You can waste Phoenix ult in a 1v1 because it's a bad situation to use it. Sage Res can go unused multiple rounds in a row because it requires a specific circumstance. What he's describing to me is a lack of team understanding and agent mastery around Clove's ultimate. You need to put in the reps and understand when and when not to use it just like plenty of other ults in the game. And like plenty of other ults (clearing flank for Phoenix Ult, supporting Lockdown so it doesn't get destroyed, supporting your Sage while they're going for Res, etc) your team has to understand HOW to play around it.
I agree u can use it as a phoenix ult as well
I also feel that a large part of Clove’s ult is also misunderstood. When I play clove and have her ult I play more odd angles and risky spots and often get picks I wouldn’t be comfortable doing without the self res.
Aspas will say otherwise put this guy on clove
q throw city
*Interested in seekng clove in pro games*
*Sees its chinese league*
Maybe this is why they nerf viper
How tf in pro games Viper has 2 snabites? Is that suppose to be fare?
Their not on the new patch yet
Fair*
I think triple smoker is a troll setup. It's like someone said "Hey smoke is good right? So hear me out : more smokes!" The problem is this guy never heard the saying too much of a good thing blablabla.
If there's any team out there that can fully utilize Clove it'll be PRX. Since they skipped the whole "default, collect info, rotate" and went straight to "tap head we win". Problem is, they're in top form right now so don't fix what's not broken.
Another problem is that everyone in PRX legit can be Clove. Jingg is the one who want to play Clove the most, Mindfreak is their smoker, F0rsaken is the flex guy, something can still frag out with her like with Gekko. It's a tradeoff y'know.
imo Clove is only good in 0 duelist comps, if even
they overcook. Just replace clove with omen and keep viper
maybe give clove infinite respawn time? be interesting cos maybe u have to leave someone on watch duty but its only worth it if your up numbers
At 5:55 was this a kill trade ? I’ve never seen this in val before in a pure gunfight
😮
LMAO Iso never been played 😂
I feel like Clove's going to have the same problem as Reyna, where they are good in comp but not that good in pro play. And if you buff Clove for pro play, they might just get overpowered in ranked.
not really. reyna has like no util and needs kills/damaging assists to be more than half an agent. clove has actual utility, it’s just really sub par
Funnily enough, Omen has some one way smokes on Icebox, so that already makes him more useful than Clove on this map
The heal is just bad, the Meddle is just a significantly worse Fade seize for util dumps, the ult is only high value in a select few scenarios such as the controller entrying or cheesy post plants.
Smoking after death is neat, but an upside of dying sort of contradicts the controller’s role of being in the middle of the pack; you’re more useful alive anyway.
Like you said, there’s frankly no world where Clove outperforms Omen. I only see Clove replacing non-movement duelists, not other controllers.
I’m pretty sure FPX was just saving starts it’s not that deep
Clove from G2 Gozen seems better
I feel like clove needs to be a double controller double initiator and senti setup. She's a better Reyna and has aspects of brim and phoenix.
Yeah I think there's enough duelist-like potential in Clove that it works best in a no duelist comp
I personally thinks she just needs a bit more booty, as you mentioned, she has aspects of reyna and brim. But to bring her to the spotlight, her booty needs to be buffed.
This is especially true on Icebox where entry abilities like Jett dash, Raze satchels and Omen tp just aren't needed and are questionably good.
,,a better Reyna" wtf you talking about her self heal is so bad, compared to Reynas, it lasts for like 5 seconds
@@brodabro4731 Reyna needs to stare at the orb to keep healing from it and it doesn't give the movement speed buff, which is significantly better than healing 99% of the time.
0:01 "her" 1st game not "their"
I heard TMV is a deeply closeted gay guy
Huh?
How is this relevant to Cloves pro debut?
W
@@waternotwater5562 everything
they/them agent 🫵😂🫵😂🫵😂